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GLENN BECK

Honest Questions with Reverend Run

Aired October 10, 2008 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): You remember him as one half of the legendary rap duo, Run DMC.

JOSEPH "REVEREND RUN" SIMMONS, RAPPER/ACTOR: What`s my name?

BECK: Your kids know him now from the MTV series "Run`s House."

JOSEPH SIMMONS: In order to get in the box you have to think outside of the box.

BECK: Me, I`m just impressed by anybody who has six kids and the kids think their dad is cool. He`s conquered the music world. Has a hit reality show.

SIMMONS: Look at me. I`m daddy.

BECK: And now he`s teaching, on MTV, how to take back your family. Reverend Run, his wife Justine, join me now for a full hour of honest questions. I`m just saying, maybe a quick lesson in hip-hop. I mean, it`s just the way I roll tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BECK: Joining me now, star of MTV`s "Run`s House" and author of "Take Back Your Family," Joseph Simmons, who everybody knows as Reverend Run.

How are you, sir?

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Hey, how are you, Glenn?

BECK: Very good.

We were just sitting here talking before the show went on air.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: We could have ruined it all.

BECK: I know. We`re parallel lives.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: It`s the same guy.

BECK: I`m a rapper; you`re a rapper.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Yes. I`ve got a TV show on CNN; you`ve got a TV show on CNN.

BECK: The point -- well, first let me come back. Let`s start with who you were. Where -- tell me your bottom, tell me bottom. Tell me where...

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Well, I`ll start kind of at the top and bottom, because the top was the bottom.

BECK: Yes.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: It`s kind of funny. Wanting to be great, a rapper. I used to be down with Kurtis Blow and just my brother promoting parties. He was great even as younger at parties.

BECK: For everybody who doesn`t know, Russell Simmons.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Russell Simmons is my brother, founder of Def Jam, Phat Farm. And the -- I just wanted to be down. So by wanting to be down I was pounding Russell. And I want to rap, I want to rap. So they let me be Kurtis Blow`s D.J. So I was his DJ. And introduced me to DMC. And I was like, "I want to make my own record. I want to make my own record." And they let us do that. And cut to chase, we exploded quick. Fast.

BECK: Yes.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: But I had the energy, but I guess it was God`s energy. I was just like, "Oh, my God. This is happening." First album went gold. And the next album went platinum. The next one went double platinum. First -- all the firsts in Run DMC.

So my thoughts were when I get to Los Angeles, California, like, "OK, I`m going to get this presidential suite. I have to beat the other rappers to it, if it was LL Cool J. I want to have the presidential suite, and I want to get in the Jacuzzi. That`s the first thing I`m going to do. And I got to order French toast. Very important. I got to smoke weed."

So one day I`m like in L.A., I`m sitting in the Jacuzzi, eating the French toast. Syrup is falling in the tub. Ashes from the weed is falling. The guy that ordered the Rolls Royce just to rent was at the door. "Rolling Stone" magazine was at the door, trying to get a girl to come. So all in one moment, that`s where my bottom was. I was like, "Wait a minute, hold on."

Then I had to move the plate of French toast and put the weed out. And at the door was the guy that was going to cut my hair. The barber was there. The other guy, named Crazy, was there with the keys to the Rolls Royce. "Rolling Stone" was standing there with a pen to give me a cover story. And I realized...

BECK: How old were you?

JOSEPH SIMMONS: I don`t know. It was probably right when "Raising Hell" hit. And at that moment I`m like looking. When God gives you everything at once and you don`t know any better because you think that your job is to win -- and winning, obviously, is French toast. Obviously, in my mind smoking a joint was great in Los Angeles with the hot weather. Obviously, it`s great to have -- you can rent a Rolls Royce, and I`m on the cover of "Rolling Stone."

But my problem was I was trying to do it all at one. At that moment I took a deep breath and realized that there`s more to life than just being No. 1, pushing the other rappers down.

BECK: You know how lucky you are that that was your bottom?

JOSEPH SIMMONS: That was my bottom.

BECK: You know how lucky you are? Mine was -- I think I was covered with a little bit of my own vomit, in the fetal position in an apartment that I couldn`t afford.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Well, that was the beginning of the bottom for me. Then the bottom came after that. Once I realized that this isn`t the top, I remember telling my friends, Rennie Ray (ph), I said, "Ray, I prayed that God would take all this away."

He said, "What the hell did you do that for?" I was like...

BECK: Oh, he will.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: And I said, "Listen, Ray, it seems like everything" - - and in my mind every time I would take a jump shot, without looking it would go in.

BECK: Yes.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: So I didn`t feel -- I won`t say I didn`t feel challenged. I just -- it just was all confusing to me. But on the way to get to that I was like Muhammad Ali: "I`m going to knock you out. I`m going to win. I`m Run."

BECK: Yes.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: You can touch me. I`m the best rapper ever. So that was the kind of bottom. And then God, when I prayed, Run DMC`s sales dropped, just a little, from four million to three million. And I was seeing that the fans from sold-out Madison Square Garden. So if it was 18,000, then 14 showed up. And then I had Will Smith on tour with me, the Fresh Prince at that time, and he was there and he was starting to blow up with his record. And we had to tell him can you take a cut tonight.

It`s not as packed as we would hoped to be. And it started going according to my prayer that, please God don`t make it so easy. And as it got lower and lower and lower, then I wanted it back kind of, but I wanted to balance it. So that`s when I started going, trying to find God and church and stuff.

BECK: Isn`t it amazing? We were just talking before we went on the air that one thing I know for sure -- and trust me on this one -- don`t ever pray for humility unless you really want it. Because that`s one prayer he will answer every time, and he will humble you.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: That`s what happened. Same thing.

BECK: I remember, I prayed, "Lord, please help me be humble. Please help me be humble." My gosh, I actually caught myself -- I don`t know maybe five years ago, I thought, "Lord, I just want to make sure that I stay humble." And I went, "No, no. No, no, no, I don`t need your help unless -- you know, I`m OK on that one," because I knew, boy, he will -- he will -- he`ll take it away from you to teach a lesson.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: I went through -- I met -- I was watching television and there was a bishop. At that time he was Prophet Jordan, Bernard Jordan. I was, like, amazed. Wow. And I walked into the church. And it seemed very organized. Wife, kids. He was prosperous. So I`m like, "I`m going to get the biggest Bible I can possibly find."

So I didn`t get a Bible. I got the heavy one. And I`m going to sit up front...

BECK: Yes.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: ... because everything that I do I try to do it excellent. I want to do it excellent. So if I`m going to know God, I`m not going to know -- I`m not going to get the small Bible. I don`t want anything missing.

So I was there every service with my big Bible under my arm, listening to every word and want to get it right with God and get my life right. And this thing just got wrapped around my neck. I promise, I didn`t ask for it. It was just like I got it until it was all God. And I was like, but I`m still Run, so I said -- then I got creative. Reverend Run. I can -- I can do something -- nobody understood it. I was like, "I`m going to be Reverend Run, and I can still rap."

BECK: We got to get a shot of the shoes here. Because...

JOSEPH SIMMONS: These are my icon Run athletic sneakers.

BECK: Right.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: And they`re for sale in a store near you. These are Run athletic sneakers.

BECK: You`re a reverend that`s selling sneakers...

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Yes.

BECK: ... and on MTV.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: I`m saving the souls of men. You like that? The soles. S-O-L-E-S, S-O-U-L-S.

BECK: Let me ask you. Let me ask you. Tough question. Some might say you`re profiting off of God.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: No, no. I don`t see it that way. Let me explain to you. Most people would know that I`m an entertainer, and I happen to be saved. And I love God.

My show is -- I don`t have a church. I don`t run a church. I`m Run. I have a show on MTV called "Run`s House." And my -- my ministry is not to sit in front of a pew of 20,000 or 2,000 people. I come on television, and my ministry is family. You get to look. I don`t preach at you. I don`t take my cameras to a church. You look at me and my wife and kids, and you learn by my example.

And you see my wife pick up the phone, "Praise the lord." But listen, this is all on MTV. Could you imagine what God did for me? So I`m on MTV.

BECK: America, just think -- just think of the similarities here. He`s on MTV talking family values. I`m on CNN as a conservative. You see what I`m saying?

JOSEPH SIMMONS: OK.

BECK: You see what I`m saying.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Right, right, right.

BECK: You`re in -- from the inside.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: So I got very lucky that MTV gave me this show. And I sit in a tub at the end of every episode and write a word of wisdom in a pink tub, and the people loved it. MTV is like, "So let me get it straight. You`re a rapper become a reverend, and you think you`re going to get viewers sending e-mails from a tub and be a good man with no shock value."

I said, "The shock value will be that I`m -- I pulled my life together. I`m rap grown up. I`m rap grown up. And I believe that 50 Cent, LL, Allen Iverson and everybody will love it.

And they said, "Are you sure?" They gave my six episodes, and after the first episode, I was the fastest picked up show in MTV history to prove the kids do want.

BECK: Six years later you`re still on MTV.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Six -- six seasons.

BECK: It is...

JOSEPH SIMMONS: People like this stuff. People like me talking about family values. People love to see me and my wife kiss and make up. People love to see me preach to my kids. People love to see Russell, my brother`s office. They love to see inside of Def Jam`s mogul...

BECK: All right. So hang on just a second. We`re going to take a quick break. When we come back, I want you to answer so then why isn`t there more of this? Because it is truly shocking that you`re on MTV. It is shocking.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: It`s amazing that they gave me a shot. It`s amazing that it`s a hit show.

BECK: OK. So when we come back I want to know then why, if people crave it, why isn`t there more, especially at MTV.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: You know...

BECK: Back in -- back in a second.

GRAPHIC: How did Rev Run get his nickname?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRAPHIC: How did Rev Run get his nickname? Joseph Simmons got the name "Run" because he could cut between two turntables so quickly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: I completely forgot about that. I mean, Penn Jillette and Teller.

Back with Reverend Run. You might have caught him on MTV and thought, "Wait a minute. What is this?" You stop and you listen to him and, on MTV, it is the only program on MTV that`s not, you know, doing this [LIFTS UP SWEATER] or something else.

And we were talking right before we went on the break, if it`s successful why isn`t there more of it?

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Well, it takes -- it takes a person like a Reverend Run or somebody to pitch it, to believe in it. If you believe that you have to pitch something low note to get in, you might do that. Like you`ll go MTV and say, "I have this show that fits the other shows."

But if you have a vision and you have integrity you`ll go and say, "I have something brand new. It`s going work. Give me just six episode. I`ll prove it to you."

BECK: You actually went to -- or wanted to go to ABC Family.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: That was the first thought. And then P. Diddy, Puff Daddy, came out of nowhere said, "You want to do a reality show."

And I said, "We`re about to sign with ABC Family. You need to talk to Russell," Russell Simmons my brother. And they spoke, and they got MTV to agree to six -- just six episodes. And like I said, it exploded.

And it was based on, you know, Russell fighting every day to say, "Give us a show. Give us a show. I`m telling you people are going to love the Reverend Run."

They`re like, "I don`t get it." And people got it like we thought.

And like I was telling you earlier, you know, the biggest things are the Harry Potters, the "Shrek," the family. But, you know, most people pitch the low note, because they`re stuck in them following.

BECK: Don`t you think that most people -- and I think; I found it with my own kids -- they want rules. They want -- I don`t mean, you know, "You do it this way!"

JOSEPH SIMMONS: No, no, no, no, no.

BECK: But they want those parameters. And the world makes sense when you`re consistent as a parent, when you are saying, "No, this isn`t good. We don`t do this in the house." This is -- this is...

JOSEPH SIMMONS: You have to become the dominant voice in your home. For me I talk to my daughters. I talk to my son. I called Jo-Jo up yesterday. He`s out of college now: "Come home." Because he`s right here in the city.

I talk to my daughters: "What`s going on?" I don`t want the streets to raise my kids. I don`t want television to raise my kids unless it`s "Run`s House" and your show, of course.

BECK: You don`t want your kids raised by this show.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: But, you know what I mean? You have to be the one that`s constantly talking to them and in their life and making them feel good. That`s why the book is called "Take Back Your Family." If you`re taking them back, where are you taking them back from? You`re taking them back from low self-esteem. You`re taking them back from drugs. You`re taking them back from people in their ears, giving them wrong information.

So for me I`ll do whatever it takes to go in my son`s room and get on the computer with him. Last night I took Rusty to karate. I`m there. You can`t let everything else around you raise your kids. Or your wife. You have to be involved with your wife.

BECK: How -- how much of a role do you think, because I remember. I was in top 40 radio when Run DMC started.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Right.

BECK: And my recollection is that you and Will Smith, I was cool with because I was "OK, cool." But the whole thing started to turn and turn really ugly. Now almost all of music is just about sex and money and materialism. How much of a role do you think that plays in -- in what`s washing over our society?

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Well, to be on a positive note, when I think of Kanye west with "Jesus Walks" and I think of some of the positive records that are out there, you know, for me there`s always been -- you know, even when Run DMC came out, the reason I got the cover of "Rolling Stone" was because there was some violence at my concert. And when conservatives take their approach and say, "Well, I don`t like this," don`t you remember your dashiki? You know, African-American. Do you remember you were a hippie?

So when we come down on the youth it kind bothers me, because we don`t remember that sometimes -- I mean I`m not saying all of the rappers do, but sometimes we go a little hard and don`t give a chance. You don`t know what Tupac would have became. People -- become. People look at me and say, "Well, I don`t know about that Run DMC."

To you it was cool. But for others whether it was Tipper Gore or whoever, they was like, "I don`t like Run DMC." And they didn`t know that Run DMC was about to become Reverend Run. You don`t know what Tupac was about to become. You don`t know where they was going.

BECK: Is there any part of you that says, "I did bad. I did things that I shouldn`t have done"?

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Of course. The Bible says, as a child you do childish things, but when you get older, you put them away. And I believe that there`s a time when we`re younger -- me and you exactly know what stuff we`ve been through. But look at you now. Suppose nobody gave you a chance again. Suppose you didn`t get a second chance.

BECK: I almost didn`t get a second chance. But I will tell you then...

JOSEPH SIMMONS: I did. I`m not saying that I approve all the stuff that goes on.

BECK: Yes.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: But I don`t come down strong. I have to, because I`m a rapper. I have to give leeway. I have to give the Jay-Z`s and everybody -- what I have to do is set an example instead of just talking down. My job is not to say, "If you don`t go to my church or go to church..." I`m not talking about you. I`m talking about in general.

BECK: Anybody, yes. I mean, I`m a much more of a libertarian. You should have all of this available to you, but you should choose not to do it, because you`re responsible. You see the impact on society.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Yes.

BECK: So you should choose not to do it. I`m not going to ban anybody. I`m not for banning anybody.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Right, right, right.

BECK: But the -- but for me, at least, and I`m wondering if it was the same for you, for me I got out of Top 40 radio because I was a programmer for a while.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Right.

BECK: I did mornings for a while. I knew what we were doing. We were capturing the kids so we could turn it into their moms in the day and we could sell stuff to their moms. So I knew what we were doing. And to capture the kids at night on radio, we had to become more and more and more outrageous.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: But I didn`t -- I didn`t see it like that. For me the reason why I became Reverend Run is because life was showing me you can`t keep going this route. That was a personal choice for myself.

And when I`m on MTV now, you got to remember I`m on one of the top shows on MTV. So I get quite a bit of air play. So if people open their eyes, they won`t only see the bad note. They`ll see that our former king of rap is now Reverend Run, who has a hit show. God knows what he`s doing with a hit show on MTV, and now he`s sitting here with Glenn Beck. And I still make records. I don`t -- I`ve been out on tour with Kid Rock.

So when you look at Reverend Run, you can see that there is something being done, without me having to go, "You`re in trouble." Just look at me and my beautiful family. Looking at the book that I`m putting out. There is something being done, whether you notice it or not, that`s going to affect rappers who respect me, parents, because now we have a show on MTV and a book that`s out now that can capture the father, the mother and the kids, and get Jay-Z`s respect and get 50 Cent`s respect.

BECK: OK. When we come back, six kids, a TV show, a book, a tour with Kid Rock. Guy may be the busiest man in all of show business. The secret of Run`s success next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Back with Reverend Run. That`s you and Chris Rock.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Kid Rock.

BECK: Kid Rock.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Recently.

BECK: Who did I just say, Chris Rock? Sorry. Kid Rock.

When you were on the last time, when you were -- before you were a changed man, you remember what that tour was like.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Right.

BECK: Difference between now and...

JOSEPH SIMMONS: On tour and then on tour. Let me say this. I had Kid Rock in the limousine. We were going to a show. I pull out the communion elements. I give him communion. He says, "Reverend, I`ve done a lot of things in the back of limo. This isn`t one of them."

So that`s, you know -- that`s the difference. In the back of the limo now I`m praying for people. I`m talking with -- we pray before the Kid Rock show. Thank God he`s gotten in no trouble this year. We share a friendship.

What does a reverend have to do with Kid Rock? Love. Love for music. Love for each other. So being on tour it just makes me feel so good that I`m not just Reverend; I`m Reverend Run. I cannot come at you and make you feel like you`re in trouble, you`re going to hell. But I can be liberal. I can give love and I can preach, and I can rap and I can do it all without...

BECK: You`re opening doors that wouldn`t necessarily -- I mean, I don`t think Kid Rock is in the car with me, and I`m giving him communion, per se.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Right.

BECK: You`re opening doors that aren`t there. When you -- when you look at people, do you ever -- does it ever hurt your heart when you see people who are out and they`re doing it and you just...

JOSEPH SIMMONS: Hurting? Oh, yes.

BECK: You see disaster coming?

JOSEPH SIMMONS: My friends from Hollis, one guy, close friend of mine, they said he`s still doing drugs. He just got caught with drugs. And I`m like, "Oh, my God." I can believe what has happened to some of my closest friends.

And that`s why, you know, I have to be a wise witness. I can just come and Bible toting. I say that over and over. But I put the show on TV. If I inspired to you to rap or I inspired you, hopefully I can inspire Jay-Z. Beyonce has a ring on her finger. You know? Hopefully P. Diddy, who made me the godfather of his children. If I can do it in a way where people say, "I like this guy." I`m not sure the way I liked this preacher -- the Reverend -- I believe that I`m sent by God to do it in a special way, in a different way.

So am I hurt? Badly. But do I see hope? Yes. And my hope is that I can continue to be used and other people to spread good message and to affect people in a positive way.

BECK: Do you think there are people that don`t have a bottom?

JOSEPH SIMMONS: We`ve seen that. We`ve seen people that just go through so much and they`re just are stubborn. And they get hurt, and they die unfulfilled. But that happens and that`s sad.

But, you know, I`m one that I`ve been through so much. I don`t know what`s going -- I don`t why I`m strong. So when I see somebody weak, and I think about the Bible says protect the weak, that means they -- they really aren`t strong. They haven`t been given that.

So I`m not one to say, "You know what? You could have been stronger, and you wouldn`t be dying."

BECK: It`s hard.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: So -- so I`m not sure to tell people, "Well, you know, you could" -- I`m not that guy in the gym teaching people you got to go harder. I`m like, maybe you`re a little bit weaker and, hopefully, I can help you. So that`s how I -- that`s how I live my life.

BECK: Coming up, Run`s better half, Justine.

JOSEPH SIMMONS: That`s for sure.

BECK: She`ll join us here in just a second when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughter is dating a rapper.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did you say?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In this relationship with the rapper Bow-Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jojo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Bow Wow ultimately broke up before things we have to consider you but when I first day of the date I became a very -- it`s a whole chapter about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me read it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guys, guys, I can see it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Let me look at this part.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guys, guys, it`s not funny. Angela when you go back --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s finalized.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN BECK, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Joseph Simmons and his wife Justine Simmons, the star on MTV`s "Run`s a House" and they`ve just co-authored a book called "Take Your Family Back." They`re both with me now. How are you?

JUSTINE SIMMONS: I`m great.

BECK: Welcome to the program. Nice to see you.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Nice to see you.

BECK: How did you guys meet?

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Oh, my gosh. We met, actually when we were younger at a roller-skating rink. And then we met up again like 12 years, 13 years.

BECK: Bad boy when you met him or good boy when you met him?

JUSTINE SIMMONS: I would say good but he was bad because when I got his autograph he kissed all three of my girlfriends.

REV RUN: Hold on here.

BECK: Whoa. Yes.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Yes, all three of us.

REV RUN: I was 15 years old and I was --

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Right and I was 14.

BECK: Ok.

REV RUN: I wasn`t a man in the cloth and she had three girls. So I kissed them all, I was a kid.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Can you believe that we just told our kids that story. They freaked out.

BECK: Really.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: They can`t believe it Joe Johnson.

BECK: I think kids don`t really want to hear that kind of stuff. They don`t really -- you know I just sometimes I`ll kiss my wife in front of them just to make them uncomfortable. And sometimes the best punishment, and see it won`t work for you. Best punishment for my kids, I`ll tell them you do not knock this off right now I`m going to the mall and I`m going to do this.

REV RUN: I do that all the time.

BECK: You do that? Simmons you`re cool enough to do it. Me --

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Same to you are?

BECK: Yes.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Because he wanted to do that the other day and I had to beg him and please don`t do that.

BECK: I think it`s great. Because you do it, you just do it.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: He wanted to do it while he was doing this karate.

REV RUN: I didn`t do it.

BECK: Do you save it. You save it. For when they are really bad then you`re like --

REV RUN: You got it.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: You are alike.

BECK: So, which one of you was -- in my family my wife and I, she`s the real spiritual. She just get it, I had to have it beat into me. You what I mean I had to be like ok, all right I get it but she got it. Which one of you was leading spiritually?

JUSTINE SIMMONS: He was. He brought me to his church. And I had to meet the bishop and his wife. And I just fell in love with his church and we were going, my goodness three times a week.

BECK: Are you guys -- are you guys concerned about -- I mean how many families have been destroyed by television. Are your concerned at all about having those cameras in your face all the time?

REV RUN: Oh, it`s a good question. People ask me this all the time. We set out to serve and that`s what I told the whole family. We`re going to do a show but we`re going to do it to serve. We want to show people family love, family values.

I`m going to teach. I`m going to talk. So it`s like I give you these lessons Rusty I`m going to give him to on camera. Just like to you Vanessa about boyfriends and stuffs I`m going talk about -- so we knew what we were going -- we were in it for the fame. We were in it because God said this is the way I talked to God, conversations with God.

So I -- I`m just answering this question --

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Are you kidding? Ok I`m just saying I talk with you.

REV RUN: Now you let me lose my trend of thoughts.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: I`m sorry you were saying that we can`t we didn`t tell our kids that you`re going to be stars, so nobody took it like that, that`s why we didn`t, the kids going to again in --

BECK: But there`s a difference between saying I don`t want to be a star and then being one, especially when you`re young.

REV RUN: But the conversation, we`re very lucky, all of our kids are very grounded. Thank God, nobody has gotten me in any trouble. I don`t have them, I tell them not to search for more fame. I teach my daughters you go to club once they let you and they roll out the red carpet.

Second day the carpet has got a little dirty on it. Fourth day you`re standing on line. Do you follow what I`m saying, so they understand that. But that comes from parenting, that`s what this book is about.

I talked to both of my daughters today, they both live in Los Angeles, I talked to my son Jojo, I`ve to talk to my wife all day. If you`re going have a family you`re going to have to raise the family. And that`s the key to keeping it. Now, obviously, God is in all of this.

So he helps it that we`re not destroyed and beat up by having a hit show but that the show enhances our lives. It makes it good instead of bad.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: And also, before the show came out, this is really -- this was really like -- and that`s what`s in our book, we really take our family as a business, and we have meetings constantly. If anybody is having a problem, you know, problems around the house or --

BECK: Where the heck does this come from? What do you mean, you`re running it as a business? Where did you learn that?

REV RUN: That is because a lot of my friends are very successful.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: I want to talk.

REV RUN: Ok.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Ok, thanks Joseph, anyway, we feel that --

BECK: He`s away for a while, we`re just going to have a chat.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: No he was mad but whatever.

REV RUN: I`m not mad.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Ok. So, Glenn, what happens is we know a lot of people that are so, so successful and we feel if they put all that energy into, you know, their family they would have a successful family also. So that`s why we take it like that. Like run your family like a business.

BECK: But, you know, most people, especially, I was just talking to, I was just talking to a guy just about a week ago and we were talking about how there`s no, there`s not a lot of honor in the world today. There`s not a lot of honesty in the world today.

You can`t look at a man, look him in the eye and shake his hand and say that`s a deal and you never need a contract with me and you can`t do business that way any more. It is very hard because society is not teaching a man to be a man anymore.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: You`re right.

BECK: You know what I mean?

REV RUN: So that`s what this book is about. That`s what this -- my show was all about. I thank God that God has given me that leadership spirit. I thank God that he`d let me put it and not only on ABC family but on MTV where it`s needed.

And that`s why we said to Jesus, so why are you hanging with the wine brewers and the tax collectors and you said, why would I would hang with the saved people. They are already good. Let go me go over there where they are needed.

So that`s why I`m following it, well God led me biblically to MTV to give a message of hope to those that need it.

BECK: You have arguments with God too, don`t you?

REV RUN: I stopped.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: I`m glad you didn`t say --

REV RUN: My arguments are more on Isaiah 43. I put them in remembrance. Isaiah 43 and verse 26 has put me in remembrance. Talk to me about it. Let us reason together.

BECK: Yes.

REV RUN: And if you`re right the Bible says I`ll vindicate you. So since I have that scripture I`m like hey God, here`s what`s up rev, Isaiah 43, here`s what I did, and here`s what I think and let`s reason together. And he wants that communication to God. So I`m very glad --

BECK: Yes, it`s amazing because I used to yell at him. I would. I mean we have a very special unique relationship.

But it`s amazing to me how a lot of people`s faith, you either have to go through someone or -- you know, when you really get it, it`s me.

REV RUN: Right.

BECK: And you can have that conversation and you said that you find God funny.

REV RUN: He`s hilarious. That when you, if you follow him and talking with somebody, he`s always putting something like certain records will come on like one day I got in trouble, "Don`t Walk This Way" like I get out the car go the priest and claim your call.

I`m always knowing it`s him because I`m dealing with signs and wonders and I`m talking to him all the time and in every other conversation he`s making a joke. So he`s hilarious, I love God.

BECK: How do you -- people who work, I mean we were hitting bad economic times in this country right now. People who are struggling, working moms, working dads, working, they come home tired. I mean, is the show that bad he`s text messaging somebody.

REV RUN: No, no I write out a word of wisdom every day. And I know where you`re going.

BECK: Ok.

REV RUN: And my word of wisdom is you were going talk about the economy and people going through so much and how can they get their lives together financially and what steps should you take.

BECK: No.

REV RUN: Ok. Good.

BECK: No.

REV RUN: All right go ahead.

BECK: Zip it, I was talking to your wife.

REV RUN: All right, good.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Thank you.

BECK: So anyway -- what I would like to know is how -- all right you made me forget the question. With people who are working, mom is working, dad is working, it`s hard to keep your family together. You need some help.

I mean, I`m not saying that you want the government or anything else but you need; help me. Help me. And it seems like the whole society is washing and sucking your kids the other direction.

How do you do it if you`re, if you`re working all the time? You know what I mean? Just to keep bread on the table.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: I mean --

REV RUN: Are you`re going to say -- because I was going to say something about the covenant.

BECK: Yes, go ahead.

REV RUN: Ok that was about having a covenant with God.

BECK: Go ahead, I was listening.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: No, he wants to show you his words.

REV RUN: The word today was exactly what you ask and how do you keep it together. What I wrote today, because I`m going to read half of it -- "heaven is not in a recession. Pray. Put your trust in God and the scripture says forget not the lord thy God because it`s he that giveth thee the power to get wealth."

So how do I -- with not overwork, how do I not take 20 jobs because I trust in God that one or two jobs are sufficient to pay my bills. You can pay me without me having to take nine jobs. Even in this recession, you can help me God.

My trust is in you, God, that I don`t have to because it`s getting harder do it in my own power. Do you follow what I`m trying to say? Besides that`s what this is about, this is about tithing and covenant.

BECK: Yes, I think this is -- one of the things that my faith has taught me is tithing and it`s one of the hardest things. I mean you guys are in the same thing. I know you guys have an agent. And you`re paying -- I`m paying 10 percent here. I`m paying 10 percent here. And God wants 10 percent. And the government wants -- you`re left with very little at the end of everything.

And it`s very hard to give that up because you`re like ok this -- is this somebody being greedy. You know what I mean? I want to talk to you about that concept of giving and getting more in return and how that whole thing works when we come back in just a second.

RICHELLE CAREY, HEADLINE NEWS CORRESPONENT: I`m Richelle Carey and this is your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

The Senate is investigating allegations that government agents eavesdropped on the phone calls of hundreds of U.S. citizens overseas. Two whistle- blowers told ABC News that the NSA, they listened to personal private conversations that had nothing to do with the terrorism including conversations between husbands and wives.

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell testified on behalf of Senator Stevens Friday, at his corruption trial. Powell praised the Alaskan Republican`s reputation for honesty and integrity. In cross examination, Powell said he didn`t know anything about the corruption charges against Stevens.

And Senator Barack Obama will make a huge prime time pitch to six states before the Election. His campaign plans to air 30 minute ads at 8 p.m. on CBS and NBC on October 29th, they`ll pay just under $1 million to each network. Under Federal rules the networks just offer some more time for Senator John McCain at the same price.

Keep it here, I`m Richelle Carey.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll be the nice brother. I love you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jojo is nice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he put something in his mouth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh. Oh, my gosh. That is nasty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll get you something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: That`s was just fantastic.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: That`s terrible.

BECK: I`ve had my -- my daughter, when she was about 2, sorry, Mary, but when she was like 2, she came up and she said daddy -- and I was laying on the couch and Mary tell me and I said what and I opened my mouth and then I said ok and I said ok we got to go and I started talking to her again. Second time. Right in the mouth. It was good. I know.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Oh, my gosh.

BECK: I have four and that was my first. Never done it again. I learned. My tummy. Turn this way. You know what I mean we`re moving.

Ok, talking about tithing here with you just a second ago. And we were talking in the break that the thing that I really, covenant, the thing that I loved the best or the most is God ceases to be God if he doesn`t keep his promise.

REV RUN: Right.

BECK: So if you really understand, do this and I will do this, he`s handcuffed to it.

REV RUN: But that`s where faith comes in. It`s like you`ve never seen this guy and now you`re giving it to a church, will the church makes sure that God gets it? Because God really get it all those crazy questions when you cease to have faith, cease to believe in anything besides for yourself.

So tithing for me gives me -- I always say I can sleep because God is awake. And that`s what my email this morning was about, like I can`t trust in my own power to feed my wife and kids. But I`m in covenant and my mind is in a good place to like. Me and my wife knows, we tithed this week. So we can just -- it seems to be going bad but we tithed.

BECK: Yes, but you know what it is? You know, kind of this concept of everybody is born with a little bucket and the more you try to protect your bucket you can`t get the rain that`s coming down.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: That is good.

REV RUN: That`s good.

BECK: And when you come back from the bucket, it fills and then if you just go -- here and you pour some more in you`re going to get more rain. It`s constantly rained at some point.

REV RUN: I love that.

BECK: And as was going to say to you -- at some point and he`s going to say get that guy a bigger bucket because he gets it.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: And he gets it.

REV RUN: I love that.

BECK: Yes, you grow and grow and grow. And I don`t think people understand that. And instead of giving --

REV RUN: I think when you give you take it out of one pocket and put it in other the only difference is when you`re taking it out it multiplies because you had the faith to let it go. And that`s me I love giving.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: And that`s a big question a lot of people say to you. They say, they get so nervous about this whole giving thing and you always tell them don`t worry about what -- they`re so scared that the preacher is going to do something about it. And he always tells them, you don`t worry about that, God got that.

BECK: It don`t think it necessarily means -- I mean for people who are not necessarily in a religion where you tithe and you don`t have to give to it a preacher, you give it to somebody -- you have to show I`m a good steward. I understand -- I get it.

REV RUN: Charitable.

BECK: Yes, I get it. I`m supposed to take these things and help other people. And when you take those things and you` help other people he wants to give you more because there`s a lot more people to help.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: That`s true.

REV RUN: You have to be good to your fellow man and charity is number one in my home. And I love to give and I always say I`m living because of my giving. And that`s why I don`t have to worry about being this guy because I live by a different philosophy. And by having my mind believe more is going to come, like the secret, more comes.

And not having that stingy thought.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: But it`s yes, it`s great, all of that is in our book, because our whole life is giving, constantly and we teach our children constantly to give.

REV RUN: This book made it on to the New York best sellers list too, it`s not going there.

BECK: How do you teach your kids not to be self-centered, how not to be caught up in the culture --

REV RUN: Materialism and all that?

BECK: Yes. How do you teach them that?

REV RUN: My joke is I always say, I`m rich, you`re not.

BECK: That`s good.

REV RUN: I`m rich you`re not and that`s my favorite. So my daughters wanted me to create a line called pastries and it`s selling a lot. They`re selling their own sneakers. My kids, we were say in our house you`ve got to get numbers. I`ll get the money, and you just get the grades.

BECK: That`s so funny I tell my kids all of the time. At 18, you guys are in for a shock.

REV RUN: This is mine.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Yes, as soon as he said that, now everybody wants their own business. Now they see the girls doing their thing. Yes, yes. They have to.

BECK: Good. All right, final message in just a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: We were going to do rapid fire here, but I want to -- I want to talk to you guys about -- because I just found out in the break, we are both adoptive parents.

REV RUN: Right.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Yes, and blended families.

BECK: Blended families.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: We have a lot in common.

REV RUN: We just adopted Miley and blended family.

BECK: The only difference, the hat.

REV RUN: That`s it. If I give you the hat, then you become Reverend and I`ll sit there and be Glenn Beck.

BECK: That`s exactly right. What do you say?

REV RUN: I`ll talk to you about it.

BECK: Ok, good. How did you -- how did that come about?

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Well, we had on the show, they also showed that we had lost a baby, and I have always wanted to adopt. And that`s what I wanted to do originally, but my husband was like, have your own baby, do not adopt.

REV RUN: And I didn`t realize that I didn`t -- that you know, I don`t make babies, God does. I`m like, you know, have our own. And God says, I make babies, you don`t.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: And it didn`t work out, and --

BECK: Let me stop you here. How did you deal with that, on television?

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Well --

BECK: I can`t imagine.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: Well, believe it or not, MTV wanted to shut everything down. And my husband actually said, no, let`s keep forward. Because what happens is, you know, everyone should mourn and have their time. But we realized, the more you mourn, the more you want to mourn.

So we know there is a time and then you`ve got to let it go. So by putting it on TV, by the kids going outside and playing, because he was just like - - when I came home, go ahead outside, get on your skateboard, instead of being around sad.

And I noticed, when everybody was home, I was great. But when they would leave and go to church, that`s when I would cry, that`s when I would think, that`s when I would go back. And that`s what made me say to women out there, even in the book, I talk about this. Go forward.

I meet so many women out there who lost more than one. And they -- and they can -- and when they`re telling me this, they can cry right there, because I go right there, and I go guess what, we`ve got to move forward and they go, yes, right. And they straighten right up. So God was all into that, also.

BECK: The mind is the greatest --

REV RUN: I can think about my grandmother and cry now. The key to life for me is put your mind on what you want to feel. If it doesn`t feel good, and if you want to play with depression for a minute, fine. But basically, I try to look for happy thoughts and bring happy vibrations.

BECK: It has been a true pleasure to meet you both.

REV RUN: My man, Glenn.

BECK: That`s great. And sorry that --

REV RUN: No. We`re lean.

BECK: All right. We will -- we will see you again. From New York --

REV RUN: Go get the book. Reverend.com, sign up for the words.

JUSTINE SIMMONS: They`re free.

END