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Campbell Brown
Record Rebound on Wall Street; McCain's New Mission
Aired October 13, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, breaking news on the economy and a record rebound on Wall Street. Today, the Dow surged more than 900 points, the biggest single-day gain in history, responding to a worldwide bank bailout that will inject trillions of dollars into the market.
It's not over yet, also. There's late word tonight that Washington has another massive rescue plan in store. Clearly, the market loves all this, but what does it mean for you, your job, your money? Ali Velshi is going to break it all down for us in just a minute.
Also, John McCain's newest mission. Some leading conservatives want him to fire his campaign and return to his happy warrior roots. With 22 days to go, can he turn the tide? Is it too late? We will talk about that tonight.
Also, Barack Obama on the offensive in Ohio. He's outlining his economic plan for the country. As we head into Wednesday's third and final presidential debate, will Obama's lead hold? Or should he beware of the underdog? That is all coming up tonight.
First, though, cutting through the bull. Now, you may find it hard to believe that this remains an issue in this campaign, but it does. The candidates, both candidates, are still getting questions about Barack Obama's ethnicity and religion.
If you are even semi-informed, then, by now, you already know that, of course, that Barack Obama is an American, of course, Barack Obama is a Christian. Yet, just a few days ago, here was a woman at a rally for John McCain incorrectly calling Obama an Arab.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't trust Obama.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have read about him, and he's not -- he's an Arab. He is not...
No?
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. He's a decent family man, citizen, that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues. And that's what this campaign is all about. He's not. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now, I commend Senator McCain for correcting that woman, for setting the record straight.
But I do have one question. So what if he was? So what if Obama was Arab or Muslim? So what if John McCain was Arab or Muslim? Would it matter? When did that become a disqualifier for higher office in our country? When did Arab and Muslim being dirty words, the equivalent of dishonorable or radical?
Whenever this gets raised, the implication is that there's something wrong with being an Arab-American or a Muslim. And the media is complicit here, too. We have been all way too quick to accept the idea that calling someone Muslim is a slur.
I feel like I'm stating the obvious here, but, apparently, it needs to be said. There is a difference between radical Muslims who support jihad against America and Muslims who want to practice their religion freely and have normal lives, like everybody else.
There are more than 1.2 Arab-Americans about seven million Muslim Americans, former Cabinet secretaries, members of Congress, successful business people, normal, average Americans from all walks of life. These are the people that are being maligned here every time this happens. And we can only imagine how this conversation plays out in the Muslim world.
We can't tolerate this ignorance, not in the media, not on the campaign trail. Of course he's not an Arab. Of course he's not a Muslim, but, honestly, it shouldn't matter.
So, now let's get to the breaking news on Wall Street. The Dow came roaring back today with a 936-point gain that shocked even veteran market watchers. If you are scratching your head, you're not the only one. So, let's recap for you.
Last week, worst in Dow history. This week, we begin with the biggest one-day point gain ever. The market added $1.2 trillion in value, the biggest gain we have ever seen in one day. But something tells me we're not out of the woods yet. So, what can we expect tomorrow?
If anybody can make sense of all this, it is Ali Velshi.
You're going to make sense of it, right, Ali?
ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I would like to just one day not have an adjective. I would just like to come in and say, this is what the day was. It's remarkable. It really was the worst week. Then, this morning, we wake up to see what happened in Asian markets and European markets overnight.
Take a look at this. I mean, all across the globe, these markets staged a phenomenal comeback. And that's typically a good indication of what is going to happen on U.S. markets. So, here we have the Dow today, starting right from the beginning. Right out of the gate, this thing was up.
Take a look at this. Right from 9:00 in the morning, starts working its way up. And it hung around about a 500- to 600-point gain all day. And, again, in that last hour of trading, that's when all the magic happened. Look at that, jumping up by 900 points. Until today, the biggest single-day point gain we have ever had is 500 points.
This was remarkable, taking the do you up to 9387. Now, there were a number of reasons for this, but this was a combination of investors actually getting in because they think there's a good reason to buy stocks, because they're cheap, and a lot of people getting out of the positions where they were betting against the market. That's called short selling. In order to get out of that, Campbell, you have to buy stocks.
BROWN: And, Ali, also, we're getting late word that, tomorrow morning, the Treasury Department is going to announce yet another rescue plan, this time for the credit markets. I know you have been talking to your sources. Give us as much as you know, whatever you're hearing.
VELSHI: Let me tell you a little bit about this, and I will give you some reasons why today's market went up. And this was one of them.
First of all, we got more details this morning on the $700 billion bailout plan. Then, secondly, we heard from Europe that they are going to guarantee their bank-to-bank loans. That's really important, because banks aren't lending to other banks. And, as a result of that, that's the credit freeze. So, the government is going to say, if you lend to another bank, you will get your money.
Then, we had word that the U.S. may copy Britain's rescue plan, where they buy stakes in some banks and they rescue other banks. And, finally, we have got a new stimulus plan being discussed by Barack Obama and by Nancy Pelosi.
Now, this third one, U.S. may copy British bank rescue plan, Kelli Arena learned this evening, and she's going to tell you more about this, that there's going to be an announcement tomorrow morning by the Treasury before 9:00, before markets open, about more detail about the stimulus plan, and quite possibly a plan in the United States to guarantee these loans between banks. That is going to be a very important part of freeing up the credit.
And that's why not only did you see a late rally today, but you may see something again tomorrow -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, we will be keeping an eye on it. You will be keeping an eye on it for us.
Ali Velshi once again -- Ali thanks. We're going to turn now to politics and the presidential race. We are in the homestretch, everybody, 22 days to go. Here's where things stand. These are the latest polls, the latest CNN poll of polls showing Barack Obama with an eight-point lead over John McCain, 50 percent to 42 percent.
McCain, though, says do not count him out just yet. He's got Obama right where he wants him.
Candy Crowley is here the details.
Really? He's on the ropes. You look at the polls, and that poll of polls tells a lot, with eight points, but also the electoral map shows an even I guess tougher road ahead for John McCain. He's changing his stump speech a little bit. Let's listen to that first and then talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I have been fighting for this country since I was 17 years old, and I have the scars to prove it.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
MCCAIN: But, if you elect me president, I will fight to take America in a new direction from my first day in office until my last. I'm not afraid of the fight. I'm ready for it.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: He is a fighter.
What's going on? What's the change about?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That should sound familiar. Hillary Clinton was a fighter, too, if you remember during her Ohio and Pennsylvania days.
Listen, a couple of things happened in this speech. The first was that he is sort of back to the future. That was reminiscent of the very last part of his convention speech. He also made almost a total break from George Bush, and said, we can't afford to do what we did for the last eight years and sit around and wait for the luck to change. That was pretty over-the-cliff kind of stuff for McCain and Bush.
And he also said -- went back to the experience issue, which was working pretty well for him up until the time the bottom fell out of the economy. So, it seems to me that we're going back to some oldies, but goodies, and we're not quite sure yet whether there's going to be more economic plans to come out between now and election time.
BROWN: The challenge, though, for him is tough. I said, on the electoral map, it looks even tougher than it does in the overall national poll. His options are really limited. And the map will show us that, and really frankly all you have to do is look at where they were campaigning today.
CROWLEY: That's really true.
When you look at the three states now sort of that are in play, it's a little scary for a Republican. The first is that he -- that John McCain went with Palin to Virginia, Virginia, in the South. This is a state that has not gone for a Democratic presidential candidate since 1964. And John McCain and Sarah Palin are doing a joint rally there, did a joint rally there.
Then McCain went on to North Carolina, which hasn't voted for a Democratic presidential candidate for -- since 1976. This week, both Michelle Obama and Sarah Palin are playing in Indiana, again, another state that hasn't gone for a Democratic candidate for -- since 1964.
Barack Obama, meanwhile, is hanging out in Ohio, you know, a swing state. He's up there studying for the debate. So, it really is very unusual this late in the game to be playing in such red states. Part of the reason, obviously, is that the economy really hit the McCain campaign.
But the other thing is the spending. Right now, in Virginia, Barack Obama is outspending John McCain 4-11, North Carolina 3-1, Indiana 3-1, lots of money being dumped in there by Obama.
BROWN: They have no choice but to be there to play defense in this situation.
CROWLEY: They got to go. They have got to hold on to that. He loses these three states, it's...
BROWN: It's over.
CROWLEY: Call it, yes.
BROWN: Candy Crowley for us tonight -- Candy, thanks.
Coming up, everybody, the new John McCain. You just heard Candy talk about it. He is a little toned-down, but still staying very tough. Today, he went one on one with our very own Dana Bash, and pushed back against some of the criticism you have been hearing that he's been egging on angry crowds. You are going to want to hear this.
And, then, a little bit later on, she won't talk to us in the media, but we are talking to her supporters, Sarah Palin's supporters, that is. We're going to take you to that rally Candy mentioned in Virginia to see why they love her so much.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MCCAIN: We have 22 days to go. We're six points down. The national media has written us off.
(AUDIENCE BOOING)
MCCAIN: But they forgot was to let you decide. My friends, we have got them just where we want them.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That was John McCain in Virginia today. That's a state that's gone Republican every year since 1964.
This year, though, Barack Obama is leading there. Tonight, some top conservatives are insisting that nothing less than a total about- face could save McCain's campaign.
But, with just 22 days to go, his back against the wall, it looks like McCain is going to be playing defense here.
Dana Bash had an exclusive sit-down with him today. She's in Wilmington, North Carolina, with more on all of this.
And, Dana, lots of attention being given to the angry crowds that we have seen at some of John McCain's rallies. You asked him about that today. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Since you have been talking about Ayers, and your running mate has also, we have heard people in the crowd screaming things like terrorist, traitor when you talked about Senator Obama, and worse...
MCCAIN: I have heard the same thing. I have heard the same thing at -- I have heard the same thing, unfortunately, at Senator Obama's rallies being said about me.
There's always a fringe element that's in politics in America. The overwhelming majority of the people that come to my rallies are good and decent and patriotic Americans, and if they are worried about this country's future, that's correct.
But to somehow, to somehow intimate that of the thousands people -- 17,000 people were just with us in Virginia -- and to somehow intimate that the overwhelming majority of those people, with rare exception, are somehow not good Americans or are motivated by anything but the most patriotic motives is insulting. And I won't accept that insult.
I will tell you right now, I'm proud of my supporters. I'm proud of the people that come. I'm proud of those veterans who have served their country, that come to my rallies and fire me up. I love them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now, Dana, you have interviewed John McCain many, many times over the course of this campaign. As we're nearing the end here, what was your impression of him today? Did he seem different to you?
BASH: He did a bit. You know, I have interviewed him several times and I have actually seen the many moods, Campbell, of John McCain.
And the John McCain that we saw today -- and you just saw that in that clip -- was somebody who was more energetic, more animated, and seemed to be more kind of fired up about what's going to happen in the next 22 days.
It's very interesting. He said that he understands it that he's been here before. He said to me that he has more lives than a cat. That is all true. It is true that, because of what has happened to him in his life and what has happened to him his political career -- just look at where he was a year ago -- he -- sort of when the going gets tough for him, the tough gets much more anxious and energetic. That's what you saw from John McCain there.
But, also, Campbell, as you know, it is also a political tactic for him to say what he said, that I'm not down, I'm not out, don't count me out yet, because it's a signal that he's sending to his supporters, who are frustrated, who are worried. They want to make sure that they are not sort of so upset that they don't go out to the polls, that they don't work for him and volunteer for him for the next 22 days.
So, he understands the hard, cold reality, Campbell. He was with his campaign aides huddled yesterday at his headquarters in Virginia, getting the facts about where he stands in the polls, in the national polls, in some of the battleground polls. And, obviously, just the fact that we interviewed him here, in the state of North Carolina, where Republicans really haven't had to compete at all, tells you everything you need to know about where he understands really he is in this race, Campbell.
BROWN: Playing defense.
All right, Dana Bash for us tonight -- Dana, thanks.
John McCain, though, sounding pretty confident for a guy who is down so far in the polls. Can he turn this around? And, if so, how?
Joining me now to talk about this, Gloria Borger, CNN senior political analyst, Republican strategist Kevin Madden, former Mitt Romney national press secretary, who now supports McCain, and CNN political analyst, syndicated columnist, and radio talk show host Roland Martin, who says he's voting for Barack Obama.
So, guys -- Kevin, let me start with you -- over the weekend, we saw a lot of influential Republicans voicing major concerns about the direction of the McCain campaign. Here's what conservative columnist Bill Kristol wrote today: "It is time for John McCain to fire his campaign. He has nothing to lose. His campaign is totally overmatched by Obama's. The McCain campaign, once merely problematic, is now close to being out-and-out dysfunctional."
Kevin, Kristol is not alone in this. You have heard a lot of Republicans who -- who say they're in full panic right now.
What does McCain do?
KEVIN MADDEN, FORMER ROMNEY CAMPAIGN NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY: Well, look, first of all, campaign staffers, they're always the first to -- when you hear there are calls of firing. We always get too much credit and we probably get too much blame when we lose.
But, look, I think that John McCain has figured out that this last 22 days has to be about him connecting with the American public and getting back to the John McCain that they know and love, the John McCain that is experienced, the John McCain that has a record of accomplishment, and the John McCain who has a reputation for reaching across the aisle and solving the big problems that face the American public, because, right now, there's a lot of anxiety.
There's a lot of anxiety about the economy situation of the country. And they need to know that John McCain has the confidence, that he has the plan to lead them -- to lead the nation forward. And that's the John McCain you're going to hear about.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Stop for a second, Kevin, because we heard -- or there were signals from the campaign over the weekend that we were going to get this new economic plan or new economic initiative from them. And then that never happened. We sort of got a slightly retooled stump speech. What's going on?
MADDEN: Well, there's indication that there's going to be more economic plans tomorrow.
But I think that this is -- this is essentially John McCain taking hold of his campaign. This is John McCain looking at the American voter and making his final closing argument to them, as we go into this last 21 days, that he has the experience and that he's the person that they need to lead this country at this time.
BROWN: Let me throw a poll at you, Gloria.
This is new a ABC News/"Washington Post" poll. It shows us I think why the McCain campaign could be changing the message now -- 59 percent of voters say McCain has been mainly attacking Obama. On the flip side, 68 percent say Obama has mainly been talking about the issues. That can't be good for McCain.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No, it isn't good for McCain. And, obviously, the voters are watching. They're paying attention. They're seeing a lot more Barack Obama ads, which tend to tell you about what Barack Obama would do as president, because Obama is outspending McCain on these advertisements.
But the problem is that Barack Obama has been making headway in every single group that he really needs to win. He's making headway with women. He's making headway with independent voters.
And, Campbell, there was another number in that "Washington Post" poll that really gave me pause. And that's a number that showed that more people now believe that John McCain is risky than that Barack Obama is risky. And John McCain has been out there trying to tell you -- there's the number -- 50 percent to 45 percent -- say that McCain is riskier.
And that's something that John McCain has been trying to tell voters: I have got the experience. This guy is the risk. I'm not the risk.
And they're not buying it. So, they had to shift their direction and start talking about the economy, which is what Republicans like Kevin Madden really want the candidate to do.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Roland, is -- I know you said it to be over...
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Right.
BROWN: ... being an Obama supporter.
MARTIN: No. Actually, no, this is helping all of us with television ratings and our paychecks. So, I would love this thing to continue for another two years.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: OK.
All right. But, in your mind, as an Obama supporter, do you feel quite confident about where things stand?
MARTIN: Well, first of all, I think this thing will tighten up. That's first of all. But the issue is leadership.
BROWN: Why do you think it's going to tighten up, first of all?
MARTIN: Because it's natural.
Twenty-two days out, you are going to see a different kind of focus over the next several days. People who are undecided, you will see some shifts. It's a long ways away again from Election Day. It's natural that campaigns tighten up.
It's very rare in most campaigns you will see a lead widen. So, that's why I expect it will really go down to anywhere from three to five points. But here's the deal. It's leadership, Campbell. When I pledged Alpha Phi Alpha, there was a point we had to learn called, if you can keep your head while all about you are losing their and blaming it on you.
The first real test that we saw in this campaign of Obama and McCain going head to head was this whole issue of the economy. McCain failed it. That's why I think that poll number, when you see it, 55- 45, being risky, it's because people saw Obama more comfortable presenting his arguments.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But couldn't that just also be that people blame Bush and they blame Republicans for the state of the economy, and Obama is benefiting just by the fact he's standing there?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: No, I think that's a part of it, but it's also your reaction to it, OK, how you present yourself.
I think what's happening here, with the first two debates, what you're seeing is, you're seeing the American people get more comfortable with the idea of Obama operating as president. And so it's how you respond to crisis here.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: All right, go ahead, Gloria.
BORGER: But, Campbell, let's be fair to John McCain here. Even if he had run the most perfect campaign in the history of the world, this race might be tighter. But he is a Republican, and this economic crisis has come at him like a tsunami.
And it's not only come at John McCain. It's come at every congressional Republican and every Senate race and every congressional race. I was looking at polls today, Campbell. They are all tightening. The Senate race in Georgia, for example, the Republican could be in trouble.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: But, Gloria, when you see how people respond, in terms of the economy being fundamentally strong, in terms of how he was rocky for two weeks, people saw calm, they saw...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: That's the reality. We saw it.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: We have got to take a break. Hold on, guys. You're coming back. We have got more to talk about. And, when we come back, I want to know what you think of Obama's latest offensive. He is out there, very out in front on the economy, a new economic plan, also under some pressure here to maintain his advantage in these key battleground states. Can he do it? We will talk about it from that perspective when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The candidates are barnstorming the battleground states. And, over the past six weeks, team Obama has logged more mileage than team McCain. Check out the numbers here. In the last six weeks, John McCain, Cindy McCain and Sarah Palin held 55 events in the key states up for grabs. Obama, Michelle Obama, and Joe Biden held 95 events, nearly twice as many as their opponents.
Obama on the offense in Ohio today, focusing like a laser on the economy. He's touting this new rescue plan for the middle class, including a tax break for businesses that create new jobs. Ohio is a very good choice for that message, the state's unemployment rate over 7 percent, the highest in over a decade, one of the highest in the nation.
Let's listen to a little bit of what Obama had to say today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: If Washington can move quickly to pass a rescue plan for our financial system, there's no reason we can't move just as quickly to pass a rescue plan for our middle class that will create jobs, and provide relief, and help homeowners. And if Congress does not act in the coming months, it will be one of the first things I do as president of the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: How is that message resonating in states like Ohio?
Let me bring back the panel, Gloria Borger, Kevin Madden, Roland Martin.
Gloria, you just heard him clearly on message, all about the economy, all about the middle class. He knows the economy obviously is lifting his campaign. Does he have to do anything other than stay the course?
BORGER: He has to continue to say the kinds of things he's been saying.
I think what we saw outlined today is the argument he's probably going to be making in this last presidential debate, where he is going to say, these are my proposals, not about Wall Street, but about you on Main Street. And I will be interested to see what John McCain says tomorrow, because that's the turf they're fighting this campaign on. They're fighting in the battleground states, where things are bad, where people are losing their jobs. They're worried about retirement. They're worried about paying for their kids' college. And those are the terms he's got to speak on, and stop talking about Wall Street.
BROWN: Kevin, right now, he may have a big lead. And you know the Obama campaign would hold this election today, if they could. But what do they have to watch out for? What has to have them a little bit worried right now?
MADDEN: Well, I'm always -- I was always reminded, when I was growing up in Yonkers, learning politics, about Landslide McSpedden (ph).
There's this guy, everybody loved him. Everybody would come out after church and they would shake his hands and they would say, hey, McSpedden, you're going to win in a landslide. Well, he ended up losing on Election Day because no one came out to vote.
And that's really what the -- what the Obama campaign has to -- has to really worry about. They can't sit on a lead. They have to go out there every single day in places like Ohio, places like Pennsylvania, Florida, all these battleground states, and act like they're about four points behind, and keep hammering home on that economic message.
That is the key in all of these states. That's what's driving a lot of voter anxiety and that's what's going to be the decision that helps them render their vote on Election Day.
MARTIN: Campbell, the fresh reminder in their minds is Ohio and Texas. During the primaries, that was a cinch that the Obama campaign sort of backed up a little bit. They sort of just let themselves down.
BROWN: They were coasting a little.
MARTIN: They really thought that looking at those polls by 72 hours before, they were doing well. And they spent about 20 million bucks, lost those primaries. They stayed in the campaign for 60 days. That is a reminder in their heads, don't screw it up again.
BROWN: All right. But let me ask you about this, Roland, Dan Balz, "Washington Post," says that Obama is getting a free pass on the economy right now. He wrote today, "At every turn, he has voiced support for the general course the administration has outlined. He's not been far out ahead, nor is it evident he has dealt realistically with the impact the economic crisis may have on the next president."
I mean, I agree with that. He's not been honest about what he's going to have to cut, given the current budget situation, given the current economic crisis. Do you think he's playing it too safe right now and not being totally straight with voters? MARTIN: No. What he's doing is to do what candidates do. No candidate is going to stay in here and say, OK, when I'm president, I'm going to cut this list of programs. No.
BROWN: If you're honest, you would.
MARTIN: No. No. 1992, what did Bill Clinton do? Bill Clinton said here's my economic policies. And the moment he got in, then what did he say, Campbell? He said, you know what, the books are worst --
BORGER: John McCain said --
BROWN: Oh, come on, so Clinton did it.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: No, Campbell. No. What did he say? No, no, no.
BROWN: OK. I thought he was elevating the process, Roland.
MARTIN: What did Clinton say? He said, "The books are worse than we thought they were. So what I planned on doing I can't do now." That's what politicians do. And he knows that.
BROWN: OK. So that's what Obama is going to do? Go ahead, Gloria.
BORGER: Well, you know, John McCain has talked about freezing some discretionary spending, and that will amount to spending cuts for lots of programs. And you know, Barack Obama has said, well, we're not going to be able to do everything we want to do. But what neither of these fellows has said is you know what, we may not be able to give you those tax cuts that we're talking about, and maybe our health care plans are going to have to be scaled back, particularly Barack Obamas, because there isn't any money.
MARTIN: Yes, which is the same thing that Bill Clinton said in '92. He said we can't do what I said I was going to do.
BROWN: All right, all right. So he's a politician like they all are, right, Roland?
MARTIN: Well, that is the point.
BROWN: All right. OK. Thanks, guys. We're going to be seeing you a little bit later.
Moving on here, John McCain calls congressman and civil rights icon John Lewis an American hero, but that isn't stopping McCain from condemning some comments that Lewis made over the weekend, comparing recent Republican events to rallies for segregationist George Wallace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's from one of the most respected people in America. It's unfair. It's unfair, and it's outrageous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: John McCain, in his own words, on "Race in the Race." More on that coming up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The issue of "Race in the Race" popped up in our exclusive interview with John McCain. McCain tells our Dana Bash comments by Georgia Democratic Congressman John Lewis, the civil rights icon, were so disturbing they stopped him in his tracks.
On his Web site, Lewis compared the atmosphere at some recent Republican rallies to those of segregationist George Wallace in the 1960s. Lewis also said McCain and Palin were "sowing the seeds of hatred and division." McCain calls this remarks way out of line.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I say when anybody says anything like that, that is so beyond the pale, that it stuns me, because that's not what America and this debate should be all about. And so, I will reject vigorously and I will reject that kind of language.
And, again, I'm so disappointed in Congressman John Lewis, who I have admired and respect. This isn't some obscure party official and that's what's so totally unacceptable about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now McCain also criticized Barack Obama for not condemning Lewis' comments. It's one more sign of how race and religion are in the middle of an intense fight for votes. Later on, we're going to talk to our political panel about John Lewis' remarks, and something surprising and unspeakable that is showing up on Obama's campaign.
But coming up first, the candidates talk about taxes, jobs and your money. Beyond the rhetoric, though, are they really delivering the answers you need? Our Tom Foreman is going to put their words to our "No Bull" test when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Saving the economy one stump speech at a time. Barack Obama and John McCain were at it again today pushing their financial plans and taking shots at each other's proposals. McCain hit Obama with that "T" word again insisting his challenger will raise taxes. Who is telling the truth here?
Tom Foreman is going to have our "No Bull" test in a moment. But first, here is what they are saying tonight about jobs and the economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I'm elected president, I won't raise taxes on small businesses as Senator Obama proposes.
(APPLAUSE)
And force them to cut jobs. I'll keep small business taxes where they are, help them keep their costs low, and let them spend their earnings to create more jobs. If I'm elected president...
(APPLAUSE)
... I won't make it harder to sell our goods overseas and kill more jobs as Senator Obama proposes. I'll open new markets to goods made in America, and make sure that our trade is free and fair. I'll make sure we help workers who have lost a job that won't come back, to find a new one that won't go away.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm proposing to give our businesses a new American job tax credit. Instead of giving tax credits and tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas, what we're going to do is say to American companies, for each new employee you hire in the United States over the next two years, you are going to get a tax break. That makes sense.
Now, to fuel the real engine of job creation in this country, I've also proposed eliminating all capital gains taxes on investments in small businesses and start-up companies. They're the ones that create 80 percent of the new businesses. And I propose an additional tax incentive through next year to encourage new small business investment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now, a lot of what he said in those two sound bites, let's put that now to our "No Bull" test.
Tom Foreman, what did you find out?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, Campbell, let's tackle McCain first. He says Obama wants to raise taxes on small businesses and force them to cut jobs. The key here is how you define "small business."
Sure, it includes the guy who runs the pizza joint on the corner, but it could also describe a company with a couple hundred employees. That's the tricky part.
We know Obama's plan will increase taxes on individuals making more than $200,000 a year. So if you are a business owner who makes that much, and you deal with your business through your personal income tax filing, Obama is going to raise your taxes, that's true. But McCain's comment is misleading because the Tax Foundation, a nonprofit, nonpartisan educational group, estimates that of all the nation's small business owners, only a few percent match that definition. So we're hardly talking about a sweeping tax on small business.
On to Obama. He says in some of his comments that McCain wants to give tax breaks to companies that ship American jobs overseas. He said this before. Over the past 13 years, there were three votes in which McCain opposed taking tax breaks away from American companies with overseas operations. But his campaign argues that it is just not clear that these taxes play a role in keeping jobs here or in chasing them away. And the Tax Policy Center, a group here that is loaded with experts who study such things, agrees.
Furthermore, the center says Obama's claim is misleading because it implies that McCain's position is simple and to be simply followed, and the fact that this whole issue is very complex. As for expanding foreign trade to benefit American workers, hey, both of these guys have said therefore that, so they can both take their swipes but they both want to make that happen -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Tom Foreman for us, as always. Tom, thanks.
So you want to see a Sarah Palin rally up close? We've got a seat waiting for you from the supporters to the stage. Our Gary Tuchman takes you there when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Still ahead, Sarah Palin supporters, they are passionate. Many say she is getting a bum rap right now. But first, Jason Carroll here with tonight's "Briefing" -- Jason.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We're going to start with some news coming to us from the West Coast, where firefighters near Los Angeles are battling flames, smoke and hot, dry Santa Ana winds. Those winds are pushing the flames toward Newport Beach and Orange County, California.
You're now looking at live pictures of the area right now. North of Los Angeles, two freeways were closed and hundreds of homeowners evacuated because of a fire there. Two people were killed, a camper in the forest, and a driver who crashed while trying to escape the flames.
A TV news helicopter crashed and burned near Houston. A pilot and photographer from CNN affiliate KTRK died. They were on their way to cover a news story when their chopper crashed in a wooded area.
And insurance fraud investigators tell "The Washington Post" a growing number of drivers in Washington, D.C. are torching their cars to get out of payments and collect the insurance. Investigators predict it will get a lot worse, of course, because of the economy. Things are definitely getting desperate out there for some people.
BROWN: Yes. I was going to say that's one way to handle it.
All right. Jason Carroll for us tonight. Jason, thanks.
CARROLL: All right. BROWN: Still ahead, the hearts and minds of Sarah Palin's supporters. Gary Tuchman went deep inside a crowded Palin campaign rally in the battleground state of Virginia today. The political passion for Palin, say that ten times fast, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Coming up on "LARRY KING LIVE," two stars who are outspoken about their favorite presidential candidate. That's just part of Larry's look at the campaign tonight. Right, Larry?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": You got it, Campbell. Well, can John McCain turn the ship around? Twenty-two days until the election, polls show him trailing. Is there still time to win over some conservatives who question his ability to get it done?
We're going to also talk about Barack Obama's middle-class rescue plan, as he calls it. Sheryl Crow and Dean Cain are among the guests.
See you next on "LARRY KING LIVE," Campbell.
BROWN: All right. We'll see you in a minute, Larry. Thanks.
In a moment, we're going to go deep inside the crowd that packed Sarah Palin's campaign rally in Virginia today. We're going to hear from some of Palin's loyal supporters, some of them getting very emotional, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE OF HANK WILLIAMS, JR., SINGER, MCCAIN SUPPORTER: John and Sarah tell you just what they think. And they're not going to blink. And they don't have terrorist friends to whom their careers are linked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Some tough stuff there. That is McCain/Palin supporter Hank Williams, Jr. That was from today's rally at a NASCAR track in Virginia Beach. Sarah Palin no longer saying Barack Obama pals around with terrorist. So you can see some of her supporters are, but she is giving her fans plenty of red meat to chew over.
Our Gary Tuchman watched today's rally from the stands. He's joining me tonight from McLean, Virginia.
Gary, you know, Palin's popularity numbers are coming down. But given at least from the video I've seen, that doesn't seem to be reflected in the size of the crowds at these events.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, no indication whatsoever at these events. They're only getting larger, they're only getting noisier, they're getting more passionate. This event today was at the Richmond International Raceway in Virginia's capital, and there were thousands of people there.
I don't give numbers because when you try to give an estimate, you just get in trouble with everybody. But there were many thousands of people there. It was one of her largest rallies yet, but it's important to point out, Campbell, that as the race gets closer to the finish line, so to speak, crowds do tend to get bigger, but they're very enthusiastic crowds, no doubt about it.
BROWN: And, Gary, normally with the press, they sort of set you off to the side, out of the way. You don't get to sort of get into the middle of the crowd. But you did today, you were there. You talked to people directly. What are they telling you?
TUCHMAN: Yes. We're right in the middle. We went all the way as far back as you could go, to talk with the people who couldn't even see Sarah Palin. They were so far away. They were just so enthusiastic. They wanted to be there to hear her.
And one thing, they were very nice to us when we started talking with them. But then we asked some specific questions about, you know, what do you think about the news media? That's when they weren't so nice, a lot of people anymore. A lot of people think the news media is just out to get Sarah Palin. Listen to this one woman I talked with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Do you think there's a media conspiracy against Sarah Palin?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Um, maybe, perhaps.
TUCHMAN: And what's your --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I don't listen to it. I don't listen to it because I go by the facts.
TUCHMAN: How do you find out the facts, by the way?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do I find out the facts?
TUCHMAN: If you don't listen to the media.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I think there's certain -- I think there's certain media, but -- that you can trust. But most media you really can't trust.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Just so you know, folks, we're here to tell both sides of the story, whether you think so or not. I will tell you that if John McCain wanted to have passion with Sarah Palin, he certainly got her passion when he picked her, and he certainly still has that passion now -- Campbell.
BROWN: I'm sure she wasn't talking about you, Gary. Absolutely not. Not you by name.
Gary Tuchman for us tonight -- Gary, thanks.
A minister tells a McCain rally that non-Christians around the world are praying for Barack Obama. An Obama supporter draws comparisons between McCain and segregationist George Wallace. What is going on? We're going to talk about it all with our political panel when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Is God taking sides in this election? Well, you might think so if you listen to McCain supporter Arnold Conrad, the former pastor of Grace Evangelical Free Church in Davenport, Iowa. Listen to part of his prayer at a McCain rally on Saturday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. ARNOLD CONRAD, EVANGELICAL PASTOR: There are millions around this world praying to their God, whether it's Hindu, Buddha, Allah, that his opponent wins for a variety of reasons. And Lord, I pray that you would guard your own reputation, because they're going to think that their God is bigger than you, if that happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The McCain campaign responded, saying, "While we understand the important role that faith plays in informing the votes of Iowans, questions about the religious background of the candidates only serve to distract from the real questions in this race about Barack Obama's judgment, policies and readiness to lead as commander in chief."
Back with me now to talk about this, Gloria Borger, Kevin Madden and Roland Martin.
Kevin, you know, we've heard John McCain say that these kinds of comments are out of bounds. They keep happening, though. And how can McCain telegraph to his supporters that this isn't the kind of campaign he wants to run?
MADDEN: Well, look, the hardest part of having folks out there saying these types of things is that they happen outside the official campaign structure, the official organization. And that's going to happen. It always happens when surrogates or people doing introductions are offering their opinions, and they're offering their analysis instead of being advocates. It's always going to happen.
I would even go as far to predict that we'll probably going to have four or five more episodes like this before Election Day. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. It's still about the candidates, their visions, their competing ideals for moving the country forward.
BROWN: What -- MARTIN: What offends me is that a Christian pastor would stand up and have the audacity to make that kind of statement about a fellow Christian. But one thing that Christians take serious about is salvation. And when a person professes with their mouth that Jesus Christ is their Lord and savior, you don't question that, and that pastor is wrong to do that, and he knows that.
BROWN: But he's not --
(CROSSTALK)
MADDEN: He's absolutely wrong and the campaign said that.
BORGER: Right. And the candidate disowned it.
BROWN: No one is disagreeing with you here, Roland.
MARTIN: No, no, no. I'm not dealing with the candidate. I'm talking about from Christian to Christian.
BROWN: OK.
MARTIN: He knows that offensive.
BROWN: Let's keep it to politics, though, because that's really the only thing I know about.
Let me ask you about this, though. This is over the weekend. Congressman John Lewis, an icon of the civil rights movement, he essentially compared McCain or McCain's campaign rather, to that of segregationist George Wallace. And he said, "Senator McCain and Governor Palin are sowing the seeds of hatred and division. George Wallace never threw a bomb. He never fired a gun, but he created the climate and conditions that encouraged vicious attacks against innocent Americans."
Is that a fair comparison, Roland?
MARTIN: Oh, the problem with the comparison is you're trying to link this whole issue of a racist. Now, he later tried to clarify it by saying that in terms of the language, because all of a sudden when the comments come out, then you saw these -- these different reactions from the panelist. That's the problem with it. It doesn't serve any particular purpose, but John Lewis, he's the world's -- the person (ph) of John Lewis, the guy with the middle plate in his head because he was almost beaten to death.
BROWN: Gloria, what do you see is going on from both sides? And I've got ten seconds.
BORGER: You know, I tell you, I think we're getting towards the end of the race, Campbell. And I think you've got overzealous supporters who are saying things they shouldn't be saying, and the candidates need to come out and disown the statements as quickly as they're made.
BROWN: Gloria, Kevin, Roland, thanks, guys. Appreciate it. We will see you again, I'm sure.
That's it for us, everybody.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
