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Nancy Grace
New Witness in Casey Anthony Case
Aired October 17, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 17 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. In the last hour, tot mom Casey Anthony pleads not guilty to murder one. And a new and extremely detailed tip placing mom Casey leaving a heavily-wooded area after Caylee goes missing, shovel in hand, five miles from the Anthony home and near the Orlando airport. The witness says mom Casey, in hat and shades, carrying shovel and bag, along with an unidentified male accomplice. Is the tip credible? This would be the second eyewitness placing mom Casey near the airport after Caylee goes missing.
And tonight, after suddenly pulling out of Orlando with no cooperation from the Anthony family, Texas Equusearch heads back to Florida to pick up the search for Caylee. The defense mouthpiece who slips up and announces 3-year-old Caylee is dead now says it`s all the media`s fault. Tonight, where is Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the case of missing Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. Tot mom Casey Anthony has pled not guilty to a first degree murder charge related to the disappearance of her 3-year-old daughter, Caylee. If convicted of murder, Anthony could face the death penalty and at the very least is looking at life in prison without the possibility of parole.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Strands of hair, a questionable stain and a foul odor -- the evidence in this car played a large part in Casey Anthony`s indictment for first degree murder. It automatically qualifies for the death penalty, but it is unlikely prosecutors have enough evidence to seek death row for Caylee`s alleged murder.
Criminal defense attorney Diana Tenant (ph) has represented about 15 defendants facing the death penalty. She says death penalty cases take into account the suffering of the victim, and the murder has to have certain aggravators, like being heinous, atrocious and cruel. But while prosecutors say Caylee is dead, there`s no way to prove she suffered without her body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remember we had those two people that we were talking about, the person who had an accident or made an accident or made a bad decision, and a person who`s just a cold-blooded, callous monster? That`s telling me that you`re the second person, this cold-blooded, callous monster...
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I`m not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... who doesn`t care and doesn`t want to help because she`s afraid that something so heinous happened that everyone`s going to look at her and say, She`s a monster. She deserves to go away. She deserves to never see the light of day. This bad thing should happen to her.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In addition to the capital murder charge, Anthony faces charges of aggravated manslaughter, aggravated child abuse, as well as lying to investigators. Anthony still maintains the child was kidnapped by alleged baby-sitter Zenaida Gonzalez, while investigators and prosecutors believe that she is responsible for the child`s death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, Vegas police and now the feds on high alert, a 6- year-old little boy in extreme danger, kidnapped at gunpoint from his own home, his family found bound and left behind, the search growing more desperate by the minute. Has a person of interest been identified? And what does a Mexican drug cartel have to do with 6-year-old little Cole?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Little Cole Puffinburger, a 6-year-old boy, might be in the crosshairs of a ruthless drug cartel, kidnapped because, Las Vegas police, say his grandfather owes drug dealers millions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have interviewed dozens of people. We have created dozens of leads and established several very significant persons of interest. One such person is Clemens Fred Sinimeyer (ph). The individual in this photograph is Cole`s grandfather. This is the individual that has been involved in very significant drug dealing. It would be no understatement to state that other members in the family are involved, as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are millions of dollars involved in major drug trafficking that this individual was part of. Please understand that the reason Cole was kidnapped was the result of trying to get back -- the drug dealers trying to get back their money, their property, what have you. We want to ensure that everyone in the country continues looking for this individual.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful little Florida girl, Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking development in the case of missing 3- year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony.
PAUL KOVACH, WITNESS: White car, black bra (ph) on the front. That area right there is where she was coming out of the woods with a shovel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Orlando station WFTV spoke to a possible eyewitness who claims he saw a woman closely resembling tot mom Casey Anthony near a wooded area with a shovel and bag in late June.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Paul Kovach says he truly believes he saw Casey Anthony`s car parked along the roadside in late June as he and a friend slowly trolled for scrap metal on the roadside.
KOVACH: I knew something was wrong then. If Jimmy would have just stopped, we`d have been all right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kovach says he wanted to see if the woman needed help, but his friend would only slow down as the woman walked out of the wooded area wearing a large straw hat, where a bridge of old tires is the only access to railroad tracks -- very secluded railroad tracks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The witness also says he saw a well-dressed man standing nearby, talking on a cell phone and pretending to fish.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wasn`t dressed like he was wandering the woods?
KOVACH: No, he was well dressed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kovach says the woman definitely looked like Casey Anthony wearing the big straw hat, big red sunglasses, and he says she had a shovel and a bag.
KOVACH: Trying to get the bag and the shovel into the trunk, she darn near knocked her hat off her head, ran her head into the car and everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your daughter in a better place?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, she`s not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried about her?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m absolutely petrified. If she was with her family right now, she`d be in the best place. She`s not.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Kathi Belich with CNN affiliate WFTV. Kathi, tell me about this new tip. It`s my understanding this is the second eyewitness placing mom Casey Anthony in that same area.
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: That`s true. It`s near the airport, south of Orlando International Airport. It was actually the same frame of time, in late June, he says that he saw the car. He says now that it was a white Pontiac Sunfire with a black bra on the front. That`s exactly the way Casey Anthony`s car looks. He said that now thinking back, after seeing pictures of Casey Anthony on the news, he does believe that it`s Casey Anthony.
He says she acted very nervous when she saw the car. She avoided looking at the car. And again, she tried to put the shovel and the bag that she had in her hands in the trunk of that car as quickly as possible, so quickly she almost knocked the hat off. He said she was also wearing big red sunglasses, and that the trunk was already open when they noticed the car, as if somebody was in a hurry to get stuff back into that trunk.
GRACE: Out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter joining us from Sacramento, California. Leonard, what`s so interesting about this tip -- and believe me, as a former prosecutor, I`ve dealt with a million tips. This guy is not an anonymous tipster that`s just calling in and leaving some bogus story on a recording. This is a guy -- here he is, Paul Kovach, the tipster. He`s coming forward. We know his name. We`ve seen his picture. We`ve heard his voice. We know all about him. And his story is extremely detailed, Leonard.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, it`s certainly easy enough to check that area out by the way he described it, and he certainly describes her. And the latter part of June -- I mean, there`s a lot of things in there that certainly fit. The bag, the shovel, the -- the glasses, the white-brim straw hat -- I don`t know about those items, but it`s certainly within the area that everybody has discussed.
GRACE: Back to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Kathi, it`s my understanding that this informant believes his story so much that he is considering getting a group of his own friends to go out and search.
BELICH: That`s right. He is considering that. He doesn`t want to step on the toes of investigators. He has called in that information. He says he hasn`t heard back. A lot of times, they don`t call back and tell somebody whether their information is good or not. But yes, he believes in it very strongly.
GRACE: To Sergeant Scott Haines, a sheriff in Santa Rosa County, Florida. Sergeant, what`s so interesting to me, after dealing with a lot of tips, is the detail in this tip. What does that mean to you?
SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL: Well, the more detailed the tip, usually the more reliable the tip. What we need to look at, though, is when the tip came in because most of the things that he`s stating have been seen by the common public on TV, such as her white car with the black bra, the shovel was brought up, things of that nature. And so is the area. So investigators are definitely going to look into this tip. It sounds like a good tip, but at the same time, there have been tips where people have...
GRACE: Hold on. Wouldn`t it be easy enough to get in touch with the guy that was driving to confirm or deny this story happened, Sergeant?
HAINES: That is true. They would definitely need to look at that. But at the same time, there have been people, I`m sure, as you know, that have come together to fabricate things.
GRACE: Oh, please, Sergeant. Come on. You expect me to believe two guys are going to get together to what, frame Casey Anthony? They don`t know her from Adam`s housecat!
HAINES: I`m not saying that they do. I`m just saying that police need to look into that because of all the evidence that...
GRACE: Well, that`s obvious. Of course, they need to look into it. But the detail behind this tip...
We are taking your calls live. Out to Rosann in New Jersey. Hi, Rosann.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Nice speaking with you. I just wanted to say one thing as far as what they`re going to charge her with, obviously, first degree murder. I think they obviously should stick with that. They`re saying maybe she sold her daughter. But why would she use fraudulent checks, phony checks, and not have the money from the sale of her child? So I think they should just dispel that, go for the murder one, and of course, the death penalty -- she`s, you know, cold-hearted. She -- and that`s my thought on that.
GRACE: Do you have a question, Rosann?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I wanted to know if they`re still looking to even, you know, approach that as far as...
GRACE: Oh, no. They are not looking at the possibility of her selling the child. They are going forward with murder one charges probably because of some of your logic. If she had all the money from selling a child, why would she have to forge checks?
Out to Julie in Massachusetts. Hi, Julie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, if she`s found not guilty on these charges, can the federal government then go after her for murder?
GRACE: Interesting. Let`s unleash the lawyers, Penny Douglas Furr, defense attorney out of Atlanta, and Randy Kessler (ph), also out of Atlanta. What about it, Randy?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, there are different charges, and sometimes the feds can go after it. We saw this in other cases. We saw this with O.J. Simpson. We saw this in the Anna Nicole Smith situation.
GRACE: I don`t see it here because the little girl is not a federally-protected class, Randy.
KESSLER: If she gets taken across state lines, you know, there are things we`re going to have to look into. The facts are still developing.
GRACE: So it`s possible.
KESSLER: I think it`s possible.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOVACH: White car, black bra on the front.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Paul Kovach says he truly believes he saw Casey Anthony`s car parked along the roadside in late June as he and a friend slowly trolled for scrap metal on the roadside.
Kovach says he wanted to see if the woman needed help, but his friend would only slow down as the woman walked out of the wooded area wearing a large straw hat, where a bridge of old tires is the only access to railroad tracks -- very secluded railroad tracks.
KOVACH: ... area right there is where she was coming out of the woods with the shovel. Trying to get the bag and the shovel into the trunk, she darn near knocked her hat off her head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This is now the second eyewitness account placing mom Casey Anthony near the Orlando airport at the time just after little Caylee goes missing. Also today, headline. Mom Casey Anthony pleads not guilty to murder.
Straight out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Tell me about the not guilty.
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Well, she entered it via a letter, so she did not have to make an appearance. She also won`t have to show up for her October 28 arraignment. Looks like the next time that she has to appear in court is going to be on November 5 for her pre-trial for the other charges -- not for the first degree murder but for the check fraud charges and the child neglect.
GRACE: To Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there at the Orlando jail. What about the child neglect charge? Won`t that have to be dropped now?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, actually, they say that they are planning to go ahead with the child neglect charge at this point, and we have not heard otherwise. But they are still planning to go ahead with that. Everybody who has been subpoenaed is still planning to be in court on that day.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Penny Douglas Furr and Randy Kessler. To Penny Douglas Furr. I would think that this would be an opportunity for her to appear in court and make a resounding not guilty plea, instead of just doing it by paper.
PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s true, Nancy. However, I also wanted to say on the other charge with the neglect, I would definitely go forward with that, if I was her attorney.
GRACE: I want to talk about the not guilty plea that just went down in court today. Kessler, what`s your theory about why she`s afraid to show up in court?
KESSLER: Well, look, she`s got people like us on TV criticizing and analyzing every single move she makes. You know, she`s not getting the good breaks from the press. So why would she come out and think that today`s going to be any different? You know, not guilty is not guilty.
GRACE: Well, you know, Kessler, I`m sure you and Penny remember that it helped O.J. Simpson when he showed up in court and said, "100 percent not guilty," firmly, affirmatively. He ended up getting acquitted on that charge at that time. I don`t know. I think that this is a bad way to handle what could have been a good appearance for her in the public`s eyes.
KESSLER: But we don`t know what she was like. We don`t know what her lawyers saw in her eyes. Maybe her lawyer knew that if she stepped into court, she was going to break down and she would not handle this kind of a thing...
GRACE: Break down? The whole time -- to Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist and author of "I Know What You`re Thinking." This entire ordeal, Lillian, she has cried -- she`s shed a tear or appeared to shed a tear twice, when she was charged and in court the first time, and while the grand jury was meeting about her the second time, never for her own daughter. She`s not going to break down in court.
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly. You`re so right. These are alligator tears. And when you look at her body language, it speaks volumes. When you listen to her voice quality, it`s a monotone. She doesn`t care. It`s all about her. And this is what`s showing.
GRACE: Lillian?
GLASS: Yes?
GRACE: I know that you are a doctor that has lived in New York for many, many years, but it`s crocodile tears. And where I come from, it`s a very big difference in an alligator and a crocodile.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Out to Linda in Missouri. Hi, Linda. Lorraine in South Carolina. Hi, Lorraine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening, Nancy. First of all, I`d like to tell you that you are a wonderful mother. I wish more women as mothers would emulate you.
GRACE: You know what? I keep feeling like I`m getting on-the-job training. I`m constantly trying to read books, but they`re not helping. Go ahead. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Also, my prayer goes out to the Anthony family. My question is, when she goes into her attorneys` offices, are they recording the conversations that she`s having with them?
GRACE: I`m sure they are not. They wouldn`t want those things uncovered. Anything she`s saying to the attorney is covered by the attorney-client privilege and can never be repeated -- unless their spokesperson accidentally lets it slip, like he did on national television, stating that Caylee is dead.
Now, today, I understand -- back to Kathi Belich -- that the mouthpiece says the media -- that would be CNN Headline News -- committed fraud, like it was a big TV hoax, that he really didn`t say that?
BELICH: Yes. He sent a release out again today saying that some reporters were purposely misleading the media, purposely misleading the public. He said that he blames CNN for releasing a fraudulent copy of what he said. And then he went on to say there is no evidence that Caylee is dead. And he basically, you know, made some comments about the media that were very insulting, as usual.
GRACE: Kathi, you know what? Let`s listen. Let`s listen to what the mouthpiece had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: We hear Cindy all the time now, even still just days ago and just yesterday, you know, still -- sounded like she`s still drinking the Casey Kool-Aid. But I think George has finally said, you know, Enough is enough here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a very serious case involving not just the loss of the life of this little girl, but the loss of whatever is going to happen with Casey Anthony. And for a gentleman to sit on a show, on a national show, and make a remark like Caylee -- what did he call it, cocktail or whatever he said -- Kool-Aid, Casey Kool-Aid -- I mean, making fun of something like this isn`t what anybody should be doing, especially if they`re professionals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So bottom line -- back out to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by at the jail in Orlando -- the mouthpiece for the defense is stating that somehow, Headline News edited what he said on live TV? That`s absolutely impossible. It went out on the airwaves live. Nobody edited that.
LANCE: That`s right. And in the previous release that he had released prior to the one today, he was saying that it was edited and taken out of context. However, we have heard both sides of the argument that were played on Headline News. And it is a live show, just as you stated, Nancy, so there was no editing that went on.
GRACE: And very quickly, we learned that Texas Equusearch is headed back to Orlando to pick up the search for little Caylee. Is that true? To Mandy Albritton, the deputy director.
MANDY ALBRITTON, DEPUTY DIR., TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: That`s correct, Nancy. We`ll be back in Orlando, starting the search again on November 8. That`s a Saturday morning.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re worried that if we find that out that people are going to look at you the wrong way?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`re telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission and hasn`t returned her.
CASEY ANTHONY: She`s the last person that I`ve seen with my daughter, yes.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kovach says the woman definitely looked like Casey Anthony, wearing the big straw hat, big red sunglasses, and he says she had a shovel and a bag.
KOVACH: Trying to get the bag and the shovel into the trunk, she darn near knocked her hat off her head, ran her head into the car and everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, famed forensic scientist out of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. He is a paid consultant on the defense team for tot mom Casey Anthony. Koby (ph), I understand that it`s going to be impossible for the defense to do their own air samples, like the ones taken in Oak Ridge`s body farm, because the car has been stripped down.
LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, Nancy, I`ll tell you something else. The strategy might very well be to challenge the validity of that air testing. Sometimes it`s not in the best interests of the defense to try to repeat a procedure, especially if you`re questioning the reliability. So this is a matter of strategy.
GRACE: I think what he just said, Penny Douglas Furr, is that if the defense did their own test and they got the same results, they`d be up the creek without a paddle, so it`s better to sit back and throw stones at the state`s testing.
FURR: Well, if the tests are accurate, why did they strip the car? Why didn`t they leave the car the way it was...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Because they stripped it to perform additional searches? Pretty obvious.
FURR: Well, why didn`t they let the defense come in and do their tests before they stripped the car? Did they invite the defense attorney to do his own testing?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t minimize any of this. You have a very dangerous group of people dealing in narcotics. They have forced their way into the home under the ruse of being law enforcement. They`ve kidnapped a 6-year- old boy, took him out of his home. His whereabouts are unknown.
These are extremely dangerous people. We have said it yesterday, we`re saying it again. This is as bad as it gets.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just really hard to have one of our baby out there with strangers. And he`s a very, very good boy.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Here`s little Cole Puffinburger. Police say a couple of men posing as police officers burst into his family`s home on Wednesday, tied up Cole`s mom and fiance, then kidnapped the boy.
Now police are naming the boy`s grandfather as a person of interest. His name, Clemens Tinnemeyer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Where is 6-year-old Cole Puffinberger?
Straight out to Michelle Sigona -- Michelle, with "America`s Most Wanted," it`s my understanding he was taken from the home, the family left bound behind?
Do I have Michelle with me?
MICHELLE SIGONA, CORRESPONDENT, AMERICA`S MOST WANTED: Yes. Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear.
SIGONA: Hi.
GRACE: Give me an update, please.
SIGONA: Absolutely. This happened on Wednesday morning, Nancy, October 15th, just after 7:00 in the morning and from what investigators tell me is that there were two possibly three suspects that entered right through the front door. There`s an unlocked door of Coles home. They go inside and they start asking for Cole`s grandfather.
But the funny thing is, is that Cole`s grandfather hasn`t lived there since May of 2007. The mom actually had no clue where the grandfather has been, especially for the last month, because she hasn`t talked to him since August.
And actually the family has filed a missing person`s report just recently for Cole`s grandfather. His last name is Tinnemeyer, first name Clemens. And so -- excuse me I`m sorry.
And I just want to mention that after these folks went in there and they couldn`t get what they wanted, they wanted money at this time, that`s what they snatched up Cole and they went on the run.
GRACE: To Ky Plaskon with -- excuse me, KXNT, I understand a person of interest has emerged.
KY PLASKON, REPORTER, KXNT NEWS RADIO: Yes. That`s the grandfather that she was just talking about. This is not just a little bit of money that they are looking for. They are looking for millions of dollars. And it`s drug money. It`s methamphetamine money.
He was involved with some kind of a ring, a methamphetamine ring, and these guys come in associated with this ring, looking for him, looking for this money. They know that he has been missing since September 11th. That`s when that report came in, that he was gone somewhere, the family didn`t know where he was.
They didn`t find him, they didn`t find the money, they took the kid. Now this kid is worth tens of millions of dollars to this drug cartel.
One of the things that the police have said here is that a message sent, message received. Who is sending the message? The drug cartel. Who is sending the message? The drug cartel. Who`s receiving the message? Well, that would be all of us here.
Hopefully the police want us to find this guy now, this grandfather, and he`s got a couple of different vehicles out there. He`s got a Valencia 2006 motor home that he could be in. He also could be in a Dodge white 2004 extended cab pickup.
I passed four signs on my way down here, AMBER Alert signs, looking for this truck in particular. And supposedly, they are spread out throughout California, throughout New Mexico, Arizona, and certainly throughout southern Nevada here.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have interviewed dozens of people. We have created dozens of leads and established several very significant persons of interest.
One such person is Clemens Fred Tinnemeyer. The individual in this photograph is Cole`s grandfather. This is the individual that has been involved in very significant drug dealing.
It would be no understatement to state that other members in the family are involved, as well.
Don`t minimize any of this. You have is a very dangerous group of people dealing in narcotics. They have forced their way into the home, under the ruse of being law enforcement. They have kidnapped a 6-year-old boy, took him out of his home. His whereabouts are unknown.
These are extremely dangerous people. We`ve said it yesterday, we`re saying it again. This is as bad as it gets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: How a 6-year-old little boy has somehow gotten embroiled in a Mexican drug cartel plot is incredible.
Take a look at this little boy. He`s just 6 years old. Cole Puffinburger. He`s only 3`11", 48 pounds, blonde hair, blue eyes, stained front teeth, silver-rimmed glasses. He was wearing a black sweatshirt, dark jeans, black shoes and white socks.
This little boy, taken at gunpoint, out of his family`s home. And this is what I want to know.
Back to Ky Plaskon, with KXNT News Radio. Ky, the last time the grandfather was there was when?
PLASKON: Well, what we`ve got is May 21st, that`s the last time that he was seen here in Las Vegas, August was the last time that the family had actually heard from him, and as I said, on September 11th was when they actually decided to report him missing.
Now, this is -- definitely a very dangerous group of people. They probably could have just shown up there and shot up the whole place, or blown up the house. In some ways we might be lucky that they just took the child and now want some money. And they want all of us to try and find this grandfather who supposedly has this money.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at him again, emerging as a person of interest, 51-year-old Clemens F. Tinnemeyer.
And what, Ky, was his involvement again, in a drug cartel, do we believe?
PLASKON: Well, I know a little bit about how money laundering operates and he`s believed to have possibly been involved with money laundering with this drug cartel. The -- there are trunk loads full of cash, very small bills, from drug sales in other states that are coming into the state, in trunks of cars, and then the casinos are used by folks like -- Tinnemeyer to transfer these small bills into very large bills that are very easy to smuggle back across the border, back to the drug cartel, the drug cartel that may be possibly looking for him now.
They would not say which drug cartel might possibly have Cole, but it is, obviously, a very dangerous one. And they are trying to narrow down which drug cartels might be operating here in the Las Vegas valley.
But as I mentioned, there are trunk loads full of cash coming in from all over the country from various cartels to transfer these small bills into very large ones to get them back to their countries of origin.
GRACE: Out to Captain Vincent Cannito with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.
Captain, thank you for being with us. What is being done? What can be done to find little Cole?
CAPT. VINCENT CANNITO, LAS VEGAS METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPT.: Well, I have to tell you, since this afternoon`s press conference, our partnership with the media has just been outstanding. We have developed a number of significant leads to this point, and we are very optimistic with regards to the search for Mr. Tinnemeyer.
GRACE: Do you think there is a chance he is still alive, Captain?
CANNITO: We will absolutely not speculate on anything along those lines. It is our sincerest hopes and prayers that we find this child in good condition.
GRACE: Look at this little boy, everybody. Little 6-year-old Cole Puffinburger, taken out of his home. Why? Police now believe because his grandfather is embroiled with the Mexican drug cartel.
To Dr. Glass, to be taken out of the home must be so incredibly traumatic for this child.
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "I KNOW WHAT YOU`RE THINKING": Oh, it must be just awful for him. But one of the things that is little hopeful is that his father was interviewed, and said that he is the feisty little boy, and hopefully he`ll fight back and give them a run for their money, so to speak.
GRACE: Give a drug cartel a run for their money?
GLASS: Not well-chosen words. But.
GRACE: No, no.
GLASS: But basically, he`ll be very feisty, and at least he`ll maybe stick up for himself.
GRACE: OK. Sergeant Haines, we`re talking about a 6-year-old and a drug cartel.
SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL: Yes. These are extremely dangerous people, and he -- God be with this kid. I feel horrible for him and his family, and hopefully the grandfather will be found quickly, so he can -- he`s the one link -- he`s the one link that could hopefully.
GRACE: You`re right. You`re right.
HAINES: . identify these people.
GRACE: He is the only link.
Everybody, as we go to break, congratulations to Georgia friends of the show, Clay and Elizabeth, welcoming their newest little crime fighter, Emma Hope. Look at her, getting lots of cuddling and attention from big sister Katherine and grandparents, Dr. William and Patty Oliver.
And at your request, here are pictures of the twins. I hope you like them. I`ll post them on the Web tonight.
Here`s Lucy at music class with her big brother, John David, and her grandmother. She is actually climbing a rope. With his father. Lucy. John David. And that`s from her grandmother Lynn, their new toys.
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(NEWSBREAK)
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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There is still no trace of a 6-year-old boy kidnapped from his Las Vegas home early Wednesday morning. Police say Cole Puffinburger`s family was involved in the illegal drug trade, and his abductors were after significant money and drugs.
Las Vegas police said two men first identified themselves as police officers, tried to gain entry to the home, and then demanded money before kidnapping the youngster. The 6-year-old is described as 3`11", weighing 48 pounds, he has blonde hair, blue eyes, and as you can sigh, silver- rimmed glasses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a very clear message -- the act of kidnapping this child. Tinnemeyer has stolen a large sum of money, all proceeds from illegal drug activity. They wanted to send a very clear message. Message sent, message received. They got the attention of an entire nation. We will not stop looking for this child.
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GRACE: Straight out to the lines, Peggy in Iowa. Hi, Peggy. I think I`ve got Peggy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love you, and I -- you know, I have been trying for months to get on your show.
GRACE: Well, welcome, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I have a question and a comment.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First my comment is, you are an advocate and you are my hero. What -- it`s like all these little children are just like Caylee Anthony. All these children suffer for what the parents or grandparents do.
GRACE: They certainly are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it`s a real shame. And my question is, Hon, they said that the mother and the fiance were gagged and bound with like zip ties or something?
GRACE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did they notify police?
GRACE: Excellent question.
Michelle Sigona with "America`s Most Wanted," how did they?
SIGONA: Well, if I`m not mistaken, Nancy, actually one of them were able to notify police, but, again, police are not saying for sure exactly the details what went on inside of the house.
But I can tell you that I did speak with Tinnemeyer`s -- a neighbor of his of more than a decade and what the neighbor tells me is that Tinnemeyer would often walk his grandson to kindergarten every day, and that he and his wife cared very much for this child and that they actually watched him during the daytime hours.
So if there is something that happens to this child, one would think and one would imagine, based on this conversation that I had with the neighbor that`s known him for a long time, that he is actually probably pretty concerned if he`s still around himself.
But, again, he is still missing.
GRACE: To Ky Plaskon with KXNT, what can you tell us?
PLASKON: It was an extremely dramatic situation. Nothing angers police more than somebody showing up at a door and pretending to be a cop. That`s what these guys did. She opened up the door, just a little bit, possibly and they just shoved their way right in.
As the caller said, they were bound, they were gagged, and according to a neighbor who heard some kind of screaming down the block, the mother managed to claw her way out of that house, and into her driveway, and scream out loud. And neighbors heard her and came to the rescue and called 911 right away, I believe, about 7:25 in the morning.
GRACE: To Stephanie in Nevada, hi, Stephanie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question, do they know if the mom had anything to do with it? Did the mom know that the grandfather was involved with that, or maybe if she or maybe the fiance was involved in the drugs along with the father?
GRACE: Ky, what do we know?
PLASKON: Well, apparently, everybody in the family, as far as knew -- and know knew that the -- grandfather was involved in some kind of drug dealing. And everybody is being looked at, according to police. Everybody except for the father, who just showed up out of nowhere, and was extremely upset by this.
But everybody in the family, including apparently Clemens Fred Tinnemeyer has a wife, as well, and she even knew. We got a caller at KXNT this morning that said that the family had shunned drugs, because of how involved Clemens was in the drug trade.
GRACE: To Kobe -- Dr. Koblinsky, what kind of forensic clues could we get from the scene, quickly?
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: It`s a good question. I think the ligatures, the plastic restraints, could very well have -- at least partial fingerprints, and possibly even DNA.
And there may be other fingerprints, other types of evidence in the home. That is critical evidence, because that could lead to the identity of somebody, some person. I was in.
GRACE: Yes.
KOBILINSKY: Yes, I was in Mexico about a month ago, training the police there, 11 people were murdered as a result of drugs. Last year, 3,000 people were murdered due to the drug cartel.
GRACE: Quickly, to the lawyers, Penny Douglass Furr, Randy Kessler.
Randy, I.
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: OK, I think Randy can`t hear us. Let`s try Penny.
Penny, I fully believe the family should be charged, too, if they exposed their child to drug trafficking?
PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If they knew about it, definitely, Nancy. But those drug dealers have one reason to keep this child alive, and that`s to find the grandfather. So I think they need -- we need to find the grandfather, and they want their money. They will only release this child if they get their money.
GRACE: And now, "CNN HEROES."
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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN HEROES.
SUSAN SARANDON, ACTRESS: When I first met Rose, I was just so taken by her heart. She`s the story of the power of forgiveness.
I`m Susan Sarandon, and my hero fights for the survival and resettlement of refugees.
ROSE MAPENDO, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: I had seven children with me and my husband. I never, never thought that genocide can be happen in Congo. The truth, all the men that were killed, they put us in the prison, they were so angry for God.
When they found out I was pregnant, I said, God, accept my life, forgive me, I forgive those enemy. I amend my sins after the commanders tried to kill us, that day is the day I survive.
SARANDON: She`s dedicated her whole life to saving these refugees that have fallen through the cracks with Mapendo.
MAPENDO: Mapendo International is my heart, is my answer for my prayer.
SARANDON: What Rose has done is shown a great capacity to move on and to forgive and to embrace life.
ANNOUNCER: Vote now at CNN.com/heroes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and, more important, the people who touched our lives.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today an experience (INAUDIBLE) grand jury has heard sworn testimony, and they returned a seven-count indictment against Casey Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news in the case of missing 3-year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. An Orange County grand jury has indicted tot mom Casey Anthony for first-degree murder. And as a result the 22- year-old tot mom could be facing the death penalty.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It only took 30 minutes for this grand jury to decide that Casey Anthony should be charged with first-degree murder.
GRACE: You know it`s still amazing to me that throughout this entire ordeal never once have we heard her make a public plea for people to help her find her child.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Take a look at this picture of the boy. This is who police are looking for. They say that as many as three men knocked on the family`s door in Las Vegas yesterday morning. They claimed to be cops. The mom opened the door because of that. And that`s when these men burst in and demanded money.
When the intruders didn`t find any money, police say they tied up Cole`s mother and her fiance and they kidnapped Cole at gunpoint.
GRACE: I just heard a statement that somehow somebody in the home at some point in the past may have been involved in drugs. What do you know?
CANNITO: This is definitely a situation that is initiated due to a drug nexus.
GRACE: I`m sick that the conduct of adults.
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GRACE: Tonight let`s stop to remember Army First Lieutenant Timothy Cunningham, 26, College Station, Texas, killed Iraq. Left studies at Texas A&M to attend West Point. Awarded the National Defense Service medal, Army Service Ribbon and Ranger Tab.
Loved family, country, God. Leaves behind parents John and Cindy, three sisters, one brother, also serving in Iraq, widow and high school sweetheart Samantha, baby girl Abigail.
Timothy Cunningham, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
