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Nancy Grace
Hudson`s Nephew Confirmed Gunshot Homicide
Aired October 28, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. "American Idol" superstar turned Oscar winner devastated. In an apparent home invasion, Jennifer Hudson`s mother and brother brutally murdered in their own home. The "American Idol" star breaks the bank, offering a $100,000 reward for the safe return of her little 7-year-old nephew, the boy kidnapped from the scene. Little 7-year-old Julian also confirmed dead. Jennifer Hudson jets to Chicago to identify the dead bodies of her family.
Tonight, in the last 24 hours, a little boy`s body positively identified as Hudson`s 7-year-old nephew. And tonight, we learn COD -- cause of death, the little boy dead by multiple gunshots.
We are live in Chicago. As we go to air, police confirm still no suspect, Hudson`s brother-in-law, William Balfour, on parole for a `99 attempted murder, picked up for questioning. And tonight, we learn he was arrested for cocaine just this past June, but he slipped through the cracks with no jail time, walking free at the time Hudson`s family gunned down. And now his girlfriend blows his alibi. Jennifer Hudson, "American Idol," American Dreamgirl -- American nightmare.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chicago police say the 7-year-old nephew of Oscar- winning actress Jennifer Hudson died of multiple gunshot wounds. Julian King`s death was officially ruled a homicide after an autopsy today by the Cook County medical examiner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The memorial outside the home is growing steadily, rapidly larger, the place where the mother and brother of an Oscar winner were found shot to death Friday. It`s not here for two murder victims, anymore, but for three.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have questioned William Balfour, the estranged husband of Julian King`s mother. Police say there had been an ongoing dispute between him and Hudson`s family. So far, he`s not been charged. Police have not ruled out the possibility that more than one person was involved.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, what many want for her are answers and peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, breaking news. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 19 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Tot mom Casey Anthony`s case in court today. She pleads not guilty to murder one. Just hours ago, the judge set down Anthony`s trial date, January 5. How will the defense counter stunning FBI lab results that confirm death, human decomposition in mom Casey`s car? FBI lab results torpedo any chance that pizza or a dead animal responsible. The massive search for Caylee gearing up, and still not a single visit to the jailhouse by grandparents George and Cindy Anthony. Tonight, where is Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The charges against you are first degree murder and...
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: She is not a murderer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child...
CINDY ANTHONY: She loves that child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... four counts of providing false information to a law enforcement officer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I purposely misled you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You purposely misled us, so that was a lie.
CASEY ANTHONY: That was a lie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mother of missing Florida toddler Caylee Anthony has been officially arraigned on murder charges.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony has entered a written plea of not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s charged with first degree murder in her daughter`s disappearance, even though the little girl has never been found.
CINDY ANTHONY: You guys are going to put Caylee in a coffin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators found evidence of chloroform and human decomposition in her mother`s trunk, and they believe the missing toddler is dead.
CINDY ANTHONY: There was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company.
Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, "American Idol" superstar turned Oscar-winner Jennifer Hudson rocked by violent crime, her little 7-year-old nephew shot multiple times, along with her mom and brother. Autopsy reports just released, and still police say no suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jennifer Hudson had to go to the morgue to identify the third family member shot dead, her 7-year-old nephew, Julian.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Julian King`s death was officially ruled a homicide after an autopsy today. That body was found yesterday in a white SUV, three days after the bodies of Hudson`s mother and brother were discovered in their home on the city`s South Side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have been questioning William Balfour, the boy`s stepfather, but still won`t say he is a suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to "The Chicago Tribune," sources are saying Balfour`s girlfriend is now contradicting his alibi to police, telling investigators he was involved in the killings.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have not found the gun that was used in the murders, and they say they don`t know if more than one person was involved.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a baby. How could someone do that to a child?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The murders have captured hearts across the country as much for the senseless brutality as for the star at the center of this tragedy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Susan Roesgen with CNN, standing by there in Chicago. What can you tell me? What`s the latest, Susan?
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The latest has to be that autopsy report, Nancy. The autopsy report -- the autopsy has been completed, but when we specifically asked the medical examiner spokesman today, When did the child die, How long had the child been dead when the body was found in that car, and you know, Where was the child killed, Are you sure the child was killed in the car or perhaps in the home or someplace else, no answer.
They have really thrown this hot potato back on the police, Nancy, by saying, Oh, it`s the Chicago police who have to tell us because it`s a continuing investigation, though the police had told me yesterday, Ask the medical examiner, he`ll tell you. I don`t think anybody wants to touch this, Nancy, because I don`t think it supports the police theory that it was William Balfour.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. And let me make it very clear that Jennifer Hudson`s brother-in-law, William Balfour, is not a suspect at this time. He is a person of interest. Tonight, we learn that he was picked up on a parole violation. We believe that was possession of a weapon. But he has not been named a suspect in this case -- William Balfour.
And joining us right now is a very special guest. His mother is with us exclusively tonight, Michele Davis Balfour. She is the mother of William Balfour. He has been named a person of interest in this case.
Ms. Balfour, thank you for being with us. I think I`ve got Ms. Balfour with me. Michele Balfour, are you there? Liz, let me know when you hook her back up.
Back to Susan Roesgen as we wait for that hook-up. Susan, I want to ask you, when you`re saying the medical examiner will not confirm where the murder took place, how would the medical examiner know?
ROESGEN: Well, I would assume that he would know from some things that were surrounding the car, Nancy. Yesterday, you talked about -- one of your viewers called and asked you about, you know, the ballistics, casings and things like that. And if there weren`t those sorts of items in the car, you`d think the medical examiner would know. He took the body out.
GRACE: I want to go out to Dr. Michael Bell with Palm Beach County. He`s the chief medical examiner there. Dr. Bell, isn`t that true that the medical examiner typically sends their own investigations to the murder scene?
DR. MICHAEL BELL, PALM BEACH CO. CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Usually. If they have enough investigators, they will send investigators to the death scene, yes.
GRACE: And why is that, on top of homicide investigators?
BELL: Well, you have to remember, the medical examiner`s office is an independent office from the police, so they`ll have their own investigators.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. With me, Dr. Michael Bell, the chief medical examiner in Palm Beach. Dr. Bell, if the child -- Jennifer Hudson`s nephew, we now learn COD multiple gunshot wounds to the 7-year-old little boy -- if he had been killed in that white SUV, what would you expect to find, if that were the murder scene?
BELL: Well, I would expect to see blood spatter within the vehicle. If a semi-automatic pistol was used, you`d have the casings probably found within the car, if the shooting occurred within the car.
GRACE: OK. I believe I`ve got Ms. Michele Davis Balfour with me now. Ms. Balfour, are you there?
MICHELE DAVIS BALFOUR, MOTHER OF PERSON OF INTEREST: Yes.
GRACE: Ms. Balfour, thank you for being with us. I know...
BALFOUR: Thank you.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am. I know that your son is not named an official suspect in these murders as of tonight. He is a person of interest. Could you tell me, was he still romantically involved with the sister, Julia?
BALFOUR: Was he with her?
GRACE: Yes, were they still together?
BALFOUR: Yes, they were. Julia`s birthday was just last week, and she had invited my son to have a slice of cake with her. People don`t understand what`s going on. My son loved her. She loved him.
GRACE: Well, doesn`t he have another girlfriend?
BALFOUR: That`s his wife.
GRACE: OK...
BALFOUR: Regardless to whatever anyone says, my son still loved Julia.
GRACE: OK. But he did have a girlfriend.
BALFOUR: He loved -- she had -- she had a boyfriend.
GRACE: OK. Understood. So they still, according to you, had loving feelings toward each other but were broken up? They were broken up?
BALFOUR: They were just together Thursday, right?
GRACE: Right.
BALFOUR: How were they broken up?
GRACE: Well, I mean, if one has a girlfriend and one has a boyfriend, apparently, they`re not living together.
BALFOUR: But they -- because you know why? So many people was in their business. They didn`t have no privacy, no privacy at all.
GRACE: Now, the little boy, Julian, is that your -- that`s not your son`s biological son, is it?
BALFOUR: My son was incarcerated in 1996.
GRACE: Right. OK. So the answer would be no.
BALFOUR: That`s just what I was going to tell you.
GRACE: OK.
BALFOUR: He was only 16 years old. William had stolen a car in 1996. He pled guilty. He served nine years in Canton, Illinois. That`s where me, his sister and his godmother went and picked him up on May the 5th, 2006, OK? William was 16 at the time. No, he has never had a gun. No, he has never done bodily harm to no one. He has never been the type of kid that you could say was a violent type.
GRACE: Now, Ms. Balfour, now hold on just a moment. I`m not saying that your son is a suspect in these murders. I`m not saying that. Police have not said that. But when you say he stole a car in `96 -- wasn`t there a person on the car at that time? It was a carjack, and he pled guilty to attempted murder.
BALFOUR: Let me tell you about that. My son -- it was still in the man`s car, right? The man saw my son starting his car. He ran outside, jumped on top of his own vehicle. This is why they said vehicle hijacking, because my son jumped -- the man jumped on top of the car while my son was stealing it, right? He stuck his hand inside the driver`s side and started choking my son. So my son kept driving even more, took the owner of the vehicle on a high-speed...
GRACE: Everyone, with us, the person of interest`s mother, Michele Davis Balfour, explaining her son`s side of the story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stunning new details in the murders of Jennifer Hudson`s mother, brother and 7-year-old nephew, one theory suggesting unpaid car payments could be a motive here. William Balfour, the boy`s stepfather -- this guy`s just 27 years old and has already spent seven years behind bars for attempted murder and carjacking.
And we`re also learning he wasn`t even supposed to be out on the street. Records obtained by the AP show Balfour was arrested on drug charges in June, but authorities didn`t revoke his parole. Police say there had been ongoing disputes between him and Hudson`s family. But so far, he`s not been charged. Sources say police believe Balfour went on a shooting spree at the Hudson home sometime Friday. And police have not ruled out the possibility more than one person was involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And with me right now, the mother of the person of interest. That would be William Balfour. With me, Michele Davis Balfour, who says her son is not involved. Ms. Balfour, thank you for being with us. I`d like to hear your side of the story. What is his alibi for that evening?
BALFOUR: OK. Let me explain this to you. Number one, my (INAUDIBLE) especially my daughter-in-law, Julia. No means did my son do this. The police...
GRACE: Yes?
BALFOUR: The police had my son -- they did not arrest my son. Let me correct that lie. That was a story.
GRACE: OK.
BALFOUR: They -- my son turned himself in. The police did not apprehend him, OK? That was a lie. That was a lie.
GRACE: So him being picked up for possession of a weapon is not true?
BALFOUR: Well, that`s a lie, too.
GRACE: So he did not have a weapon?
BALFOUR: No, ma`am. No.
GRACE: OK.
BALFOUR: No, that`s a violation of his parole. Let me explain something to you. They`re not telling you guys everything. Jason was selling drugs out of the house, OK?
GRACE: Are you talking about -- are you talking about Jennifer Hudson`s brother?
BALFOUR: Yes.
GRACE: Well, hold on. Before we get to him, what is your son`s alibi for the time of the shooting?
BALFOUR: My son`s alibi was with one of his girlfriends, OK, one of the girls that he`s dating. They are -- Julia and William were separated, but they were still together. Do you understand what I`m saying?
GRACE: Yes.
BALFOUR: They weren`t on a -- William was not raised to disrespect no one, so he left the home. He wasn`t kicked out. He wasn`t put out. Julia wanted William back. (INAUDIBLE) Julia felt that William was a threat, don`t you think she would have put a restraining order on him?
GRACE: Well, according to sources...
BALFOUR: Yes or no! Yes or no!
GRACE: No, I don`t know that she would have done that. No, I don`t know their situation at all.
BALFOUR: I`m just saying, if you feel that a person is threatening your family, would you want them around?
GRACE: Well, you know, frankly, Ms. Balfour, women all across this country are afraid of men and they don`t get a temporary restraining order.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: So I don`t know what they would do.
BALFOUR: Did that family look like they`re afraid?
GRACE: I don`t know. You tell me.
BALFOUR: OK.
GRACE: You tell me. Was she afraid?
BALFOUR: No, they`re not afraid of him.
GRACE: Had they had disputes in the past? Had they had an argument in the past?
BALFOUR: No. No. No!
GRACE: Then why did they break up?
BALFOUR: Why did they break up?
GRACE: Yes.
BALFOUR: Because William wanted them to move out into their own apartment.
GRACE: OK. You said that Jennifer Hudson`s brother was selling drugs.
BALFOUR: Yes.
GRACE: But isn`t it true that your son was picked up on drugs this past June?
BALFOUR: Wait a minute. Let me correct you on that one, too.
GRACE: OK. Correct me.
BALFOUR: (INAUDIBLE) you all would stop saying that one.
GRACE: OK, tell me.
BALFOUR: William went over there. He was not living with Julia at the time, right? William was out of the house to see Julia. When he came out, there was some shooting over there in the Englewood area. So the police automatically pulled William over. William steps out of the car. When the police went back over to the car, they searched the car and they found some drugs in the car. This is what I`m going to tell you. They arrested my son, impounded his car, OK?
They had no probable cause for searching that car. That`s why the charges were dropped. William said the police put the drugs in there. I told him it wasn`t the police, it was Julia.
GRACE: So you believe that Julia...
BALFOUR: There was no way -- yes, I told my son it was Julia that did this because she was upset because William had started dating another girl. So it`s always two sides of the story.
GRACE: Yes...
(CROSSTALK)
BALFOUR: ... my son is the one that was stalking her. He went on with his life, you understand? He went on with his life.
GRACE: Well, actually...
BALFOUR: He wanted to...
GRACE: ... nobody has said stalking. You`re the first person that`s said that. Why would you even bring that up?
BALFOUR: Why did I bring that up? Because that`s the way you all are painting him, portraying my son as being the worst scum of the earth.
GRACE: No, actually, I got you on...
(CROSSTALK)
BALFOUR: You all are not saying that my son was employed from the time...
GRACE: Is he? Good. Tell me about that. Where was he employed?
BALFOUR: Cozy (ph) on Jackson, Michigan and Jackson, downtown in Chicago. My son had been employed there since he had gotten out of jail. You all have put my son`s face on worldwide news like he`s -- like he`s Attila the Hun. You all are not saying that my son obtained his GED while he was in the correctional facility. You all are not saying that my son took up horticulture while he was there. William is a very smart and intelligent young man.
Why didn`t they charge him? If they say he violated his parole, right, why is his parole officer not terminated from his job? Why? Ask the Chicago Police Department why haven`t they not terminated...
GRACE: OK, Ms. Balfour, you`re asking...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You`re asking me a lot of questions that nobody knows the answer to.
BALFOUR: But this is what everybody needs to know.
GRACE: No, no, no! Not everybody! That has not been said on this show, so ma`am, you need to get your facts straight because that has not been said on this show.
BALFOUR: I didn`t say it was. I`m not saying...
GRACE: You said everybody.
(CROSSTALK)
BALFOUR: I`m just in general saying...
GRACE: OK.
BALFOUR: ... to the public, OK?
GRACE: Yes. Well, let`s just get that straight. And I want to get something else straight about his alibi. You said he was with his girlfriend. What girlfriend?
BALFOUR: Well, William has two girlfriends that I know of.
GRACE: Well, which one?
BALFOUR: I know -- my oldest son, which is Raymond (ph), his brother, had told me he was with Diana (ph) that night and he was with Kate (ph) in the morning. Now, that`s what he had told me. My son told me this, OK? Now, if William did -- let me explain this to you because I did get kind of (INAUDIBLE) If William did do this, right, in no means am I going to sugarcoat him and say my son didn`t do it. I know my son didn`t do this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER HUDSON, ACTRESS/SINGER: I`ve always had a positive upbringing and positive people around me. And even when I feel down or feel like I don`t want to do this anymore, I can`t do it anymore, my mother was there to say, You know what? This is what you love to do. You have to hold onto that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. With me right now, a special guest joining us exclusively, Michele Davis Balfour. She is the mother of the person of interest in the Hudson shooting. "American Idol" turned Oscar winner Jennifer Hudson learns her family gunned down in their Chicago home.
Back to Ms. Balfour. Ms. Balfour, you were saying your son`s alibi is his girlfriend, Diana?
BALFOUR: Yes. Like I said, Diana and this young lady named Kate that I had met back in June when William had went to jail for possession of a controlled substance. He didn`t slip through the cracks. His parole officer knew that he was in jail. He knew. So don`t say that anymore. The parole officer knew that William was (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: So -- but he was still picked up on cocaine. You`re not saying he didn`t have it in his car, are you?
BALFOUR: It was in his car, but it wasn`t in his pocket or on his personal body. That`s what I`m saying.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Chicago police are saying the 7-year-old nephew of Oscar-winning actress Jennifer Hudson did die of multiple gunshot wounds.
King`s death was officially ruled a homicide after today`s autopsy by the county medical examiner. The body was found yesterday in a white SUV, three days after the bodies of Hudson`s mother and brother were discovered in their home on the city`s south side.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: And not just mother and brother, her 7-year-old little nephew also murdered.
Out to Susan Roesgen, CNN correspondent, standing by there in Chicago. It was multiple gunshot wounds. How many times do we know the little boy was shot?
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, the medical examiner spokesman, Nancy, would not tell us how many times, nor would he tell us where the child was shot in the body.
And my question would be, does this mean that the killer was a lousy shot, or does it mean that somebody hated a 7-year-old boy so much that he had to be shot multiple times? What does that mean?
GRACE: Or does someone want to get rid of an eyewitness, which means the little boy may have known the assailant, and could have named him by name to police.
To Kathy Chaney with the "Chicago Defender," I understand cops have been back to the scene every single day since the shooting?
KATHY CHANEY, REPORTER, CHICAGO DEFENDER, COVERING STORY: Yes, you could see investigators going in and outside of the home in the yard, looking in the grass, the ground and everything. Because they`re just searching for clues, whatever they could find. And they`re also search for the weapon that has not been found.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live.
Very quickly, Susan Roesgen, car payments? Motives for murder?
ROESGEN: I hardly think so, Nancy. I hardly think so, that because he had the car and Julia was supposed to make a payment and her wages were garnished, which we did confirm, by the way, one time. I don`t think so.
GRACE: I don`t -- know. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, child advocate, Susan Moss out of New York, veteran defense attorney, Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta, and Peter Schaffer, defense attorney out of New York.
You know, Ray Giudice, I remember one of the first murders I prosecuted was over $10 so.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I was going to say, a pack of cigarettes, right.
GRACE: Yes. Never rule out.
GIUDICE: No.
GRACE: . what would or would not be a motive.
GIUDICE: I totally agree with you. And let me also say, don`t worry about motive. Who, when and where is the key to this case. Motive is for dime-store novels. You don`t need a motive to convict somebody.
And as you know, like we said, a bottle of beer, a fight over a card game with no money involved has been motive for a murder.
GRACE: And I want to go to Susan Moss. They`re going to be up the creek without a paddle if what reports are saying is true, and that is the girlfriend contradicts the alibi.
SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Oh, that`s going to be huge. Because if he doesn`t have an alibi, he is going to be the person they look to first.
And let me tell you something. This guy violates parole. If you violate parole, you`re supposed to pay the toll. Not get released to -- for another criminal role. This is outrageous. If he truly had coke in his car and he was arrested, he is supposed to go back to jail.
GRACE: To Peter Schaffer, defense attorney, but as the mother said, and this is true, I`ve got the document right here, when he had the dope back in June, that revocation was dropped. He fell through the cracks. No probable cause to get him on the dope in his car.
PETER SCHAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, if the probate -- I`m sorry, parole can violate him whether there is probable cause or not. But they felt that the violation wasn`t significant enough. Not every arrest leads to somebody going back to prison, so.
GRACE: Well, I`m not talking about going back to prison. I`m talking about a parole violation.
SCHAFFER: Right.
GRACE: Everybody, very quickly, Jennifer Hudson still in Chicago, the "American Idol" contestant turned superstar Oscar winner. Take a look.
(VIDEO CLIP OF JENNIFER HUDSON, SINGING)
GRACE: What a voice. That is a clip of Hudson auditioning for FOX`s "American Idol."
To John Peter Lewis, you all may remember him as I do, the "American Idol" finalist and friend of Jennifer Hudson, also a star in his own right. You knew her very well, especially at that time.
How close was she, John Peter Lewis, to her family?
JOHN PETER LEWIS, "AMERICAN IDOL" FINALIST, FRIEND OF JENNIFER HUDSON: Very close. Very, very close. I mean, they had -- her brothers were -- her brother was always there in the audience, supporting her. I mean I remember him -- well, him and is his mother, you know, always around.
You know, she was wearing the shirts for, you know, Jennifer, and he - - he was always going through, like, the studio and he was like saying "fire it up" all of time, you know? And he was really, really supportive of her and you could tell they had a good relationship. And I remember meeting Julia, as well.
GRACE: With me, John Peter Lewis, an "American Idol" finalist and friend of Jennifer Hudson`s. Both of your lives have changed so much since "Idol," right?
LEWIS: Yes, absolutely. Completely.
GRACE: In what way?
LEWIS: Well, you know, I mean, really, in every way. I mean, it`s like, you know, "American Idol" takes, you know, someone from nowhere relatively - well, from nowhere really, and you know, you`re suddenly thrust in front of 60 million people, and I mean you have a career in front of you at that point, and, you know, I mean, it really -- you know, it changes your life in every aspect.
I mean, everyone knows who you are and knows your name, and you know, it`s definitely just this -- you know?
GRACE: You know what, John Peter Lewis -- everyone, you remember John Peter Lewis, a contestant himself, a star in his own right. You really hit the nail on the head.
To Dr. Lillian Glass, everyone does know who you are. Are police ignoring the fact that Jennifer Hudson, major superstar, did that have anything to do with these murders?
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "I KNOW WHAT YOU`RE THINKING": Well, we really don`t know this yet. So we don`t know what.
GRACE: But what kind of a mind would take some type of joy in hurting an "Idol" family?
GLASS: Probably somebody that had a lot of rage, a lot of jealousy, a lot of hatred in them. A lot of anger. And this is the type of sick mind that would do something like this, especially kill a little child.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. To Vanessa in New York, hi, Vanessa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just wondering, when Jennifer was on "Idol," she had a boyfriend in Chicago.
GRACE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this boyfriend went to the Grammy`s with her.
GRACE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now after that, it was just shortly after, I know she is now engaged to somebody else.
GRACE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I`m just wondering if the ex-boyfriend is a person of interest. Because, why I`m saying that, guys take a while to get over certain things, and she is certainly, you know, flaunting the new boyfriend.
And I saw her on "Oprah," and she was very, very impressed -- you know, talking about her new boyfriend, and it was really something. So I would think that, you know, he could be a person of interest.
GRACE: To Vanessa`s New York question, Bill Majeski, former NYPD detective, he`s with the Majeski Associates, he`s not a person of interest, but her question is well-put.
Why do police start with former boyfriends, husbands, lovers?
BILL MAJESKI, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE, MAJESKI ASSOCIATES, INC.: Because very often, former boyfriends are in some way involved in the situations like this. But in this particular case, it`s quite easy for the police to just contact this fellow and find out what his alibi was for that evening.
In regard to our prime -- not suspect, person of interest, he was asked to take a polygraph test and he refused to take the polygraph test. You know, clearly, if he had nothing to hide, he should be taking the test.
GRACE: Excellent point. Let`s go back to his mother, joining us tonight, exclusively, giving us his side of story.
Michelle Davis Balfour, the mother of William Balfour, is that true? Did he refuse to take a polygraph?
MICHELLE DAVID BALFOUR, ON THE PHONE, MOTHER OF PERSON OF INTEREST WILLIAM BALFOUR: When I got down to the police station that night to go see my son, I was refused to see him. He was refused any legal assistance.
They would not -- let him see an attorney. He asked for an attorney. They did not give -- see, they`re not telling you all.
GRACE: Does he have a lawyer now?
BALFOUR: No, he doesn`t. They did not give him a lawyer at the time of this. They just shipped my son -- I asked him, Detective Kelly of the Chicago Police Department at District 1. I asked him, can I see my son? He told me, very rudely, no. Get the hell out of here. You can`t see your son.
GRACE: Did your son refuse to take a polygraph, do you know?
BALFOUR: No one knows. No one knows. No one knows. I don`t know, you don`t know. No one knows if he refused. But they refused one of his rights. And that`s him having an attorney present.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: William Balfour in the custody of Illinois Department of Corrections for violating conditions of parole, and remains a person of interest in this investigation.
No suspects have been named. We`re following any lead we can get right now. He`s a person of interest, but that`s not to say that there is not other individuals that may turn up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Chicago police now say the 7-year-old nephew of Oscar-winner Jennifer Hudson died of multiple gunshot wounds. Julian King`s death was official ruled a homicide after today`s autopsy.
His body was found yesterday in the back seat of a white SUV, three days after the bodies of Hudson`s mother and brother were discovered in their South Side home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Straight out to Stephanie Patton, friend and neighbor of the Hudson family.
Miss Patton, thank you for being with us. You live right there, near the home. What are you seeing going on? Are cops coming back to the home every day?
STEPHANIE PATTON, FRIEND AND NEIGHBOR OF JENNIFER HUDSON`S FAMILY: I`m just saying the police out there. The news people out there. I haven`t seen the family yet.
GRACE: Are you familiar with the person of interest?
PATTON: No, I`m not.
GRACE: William Balfour.
PATTON: No, I`m not.
GRACE: And a lot of accusations have been made that the brother was selling drugs? We have no indication that`s true. What do you know?
PATTON: I didn`t know anything about him selling drugs.
GRACE: And -- right. And you`re right there in the neighborhood.
Very quickly, back to Susan Roesgen standing by there in Chicago. What`s the next step, Susan?
ROESGEN: I think they`ve got to find some evidence, Nancy. I mean, OK, let`s say that the cops have the right guy, OK? Let`s say that. How did William Balfour then kill two adults, grab a child, put him in a car, get the car across town, where nobody saw it, put a cloak of invisibility over the car so that nobody discovered it with the body in the back until Monday morning? Something doesn`t add up, Nancy.
GRACE: So are you suggesting, Susan, an accomplice?
ROESGEN: An accomplice or maybe not him. Perhaps. Or maybe it just wasn`t him.
GRACE: And very quickly, of course, he has not been named a suspect, everybody. Very quickly, we`re about to take you to the story of tot mom Casey Anthony. But very quickly to the defense lawyers, Jay Giudice, Peter Schaffer, Susan Moss.
Ray Giudice, he`s kind of blown it by giving a -- an alibi right up front, which has already been discounted.
GIUDICE: Yes, it would be nice if his counsel had an opportunity to spend some time with him and showing in space and distance where he had been for the previous 24 hours. That may be crumbling.
GRACE: OK, everybody, we`re switching gears. The tot mom in court today. Her case in court today. She pleads not guilty to murder one. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: My daughter has been missing for the last 31.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I found my daughter`s car today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The smell that I smelled inside that car was the smell of decomposition.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Maybe my daughter ran over something.
CINDY: I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she is at.
CASEY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Kathi Belich with WFTV.
Kathi, not guilty.
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: That`s right. The judge accepted her not guilty plea today, her trial has been set for January 5th. And also today, 1800 pages worth of tips released to the public. Most of them so far from psychics.
GRACE: From psychics. To Drew Petrimoulx from WDBO -- Drew Petrimoulx, why was she a no-show in court -- why didn`t she stand up -- even O.J. Simpson stood up and said, "100 percent not guilty." Why not her?
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: She had already entered the plea of not guilty, and because of that, neither her or her lawyer were actually in court when the judge accepted the plea today.
One thing that`s important to note about the date, it was actually moved up to January 5th from an original date of February 9th. And that`s important, because, you know, investigators wanted to move up the date, because basically, you know, they`re saying they`re ready to get this trial on, they`re comfortable with their evidence, and even without the body, they`re ready to start the trial now and put pressure on the defense.
GRACE: But, of course, at this juncture, still, no demand for speedy trial by the defense. And no change of venue request by the defense. Is that correct, Drew?
PETRIMOULX: That`s correct. And, you know, it would be hard to imagine that they could hold a fair trial in Orlando at this time, but to the date there hasn`t been anything requested for a new change.
GRACE: OK. Don`t know what they`re thinking.
And Kathi Belich with WFTV, has the state announced anything about seeking the death penalty?
BELICH: No, it has not made that decision yet. We`re told it`s highly unlikely without a body.
GRACE: Huh. Who told you that?
BELICH: Sources.
GRACE: Sources. Well, sources better look into law books, because it is possible.
I want to go to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento. He is now joining the search for little Caylee.
Leonard, what about the tips you got from the public regarding those cell pings?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, MET WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: Well, we -- you know, everybody is on the same page. There is this area where these pings come in from. Starting the 15th is when they started checking them the night that we feel she left the house.
And we have worked them all the way to the 30th when the car was towed. And I think the feds have the same information we have.
Nick, the -- Nick Savage, the gentleman with the FBI, has that information. The people with the sheriff`s office have it.
GRACE: Right.
PADILLA: They all have it. So.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Cindy in North Carolina. Hi, Cindy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is this, Nancy. First of all, just thank you for everything you do.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And your kids are just beautiful. But my question is this: the man or the witness that saw, supposedly, Casey that day with the shovel.
GRACE: Yes. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she did bury the child in a bag -- I can`t -- I can`t even fathom this, but if she did bury her child in a bag and they do find the body, would you still be able to find traces of chloroform or still be able to determine death if the child was in a concealed bag underground?
GRACE: To Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, famed forensic out of the John J. College of Criminal Justice, he is a paid consultant on the Anthony defense team. All right, take out your defense hat just one moment, and go with the scenario that Cindy in North Carolina has presented you.
If those facts were true, could you detect chloroform?
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, CONSULTANT TO CASEY ANTHONY DEFENSE TEAM: I think examining a body for chloroform would really depend upon the state of decomposition. If a.
GRACE: Is that a yes or a no?
KOBILINSKY: If the body is skeletonized, no.
GRACE: If the body is skeletonized, that means skin, flesh, soft tissue gone.
KOBILINSKY: Gone.
GRACE: But if a child were buried in a bag, there would still be remains?
KOBILINSKY: Possibly.
GRACE: There would still be remains.
To Leonard Padilla, how can you protect the chain of custody if the volunteers are out searching and they actually find something?
PADILLA: Well, you have to understand that in searches like this the chain of custody starts when law enforcement takes over the evidence. The individual will stake it and call an expert. There will be plenty of pathologists.
There`s several hundred people that have volunteered for this search that have experience in pathology. There`s retired military, retired law enforcement. They`re not just all civilians.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The charges against you, first-degree murder, aggregated child abuse, aggregated manslaughter to a child, and four counts of providing false information to a law enforcement officer. (INAUDIBLE) entering a not guilty plea for her.
Again, the days are December 11th at 9:00, the pretrial conference, January 5th at 9:30.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Over 1,000 pages of tips released. These are tips to police and they`re mostly psychics?
BELICH: That`s right. I found four so far and I`ve gone through more than half of them that were not from psychics and they weren`t very specific tips even at that.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Susan Moss, Ray Giudice -- Peter Schaffer. Psychics, that can`t come into court.
SCHAFFER: No. You know those tips won`t come into court but you know, defense counsel will say, why didn`t you investigate this psychic? They could be as right as nibble. Circumstantial case.
GRACE: You know what? You know what?
SCHAFFER: Yes?
GRACE: Ray, why don`t they investigate the psychics? This is a free country. If they want to investigate a tip get after it.
GIUDICE: I think they better come up with a better defense than that. And that`s the problem with the state not finding the body, it leaves all these unfollowed up on tips on the table.
GRACE: Well, you know what, I appreciate your sentiments, Mr. Giudice.
But Sue Moss, the problem with the state not finding the body is that somebody hid the body. That`s not the state`s fault.
MOSS: Amen. And I love Dionne Warwick, too, but that`s not going to persuade a jury.
GRACE: Very quickly, Ray Giudice, no visits from the family. That can`t be good.
GIUDICE: No, that`s judge -- that`s the lawyers` instructions. No more tape recorded conversations, we can`t do that.
GRACE: OK. You know what, you`re right. And I`ll leave on that note.
Everybody, let`s stop for a moment and remember Army Sergeant Marcus Mathes, 26, Zephyrhills, Florida, killed Iraq. Loved hiking, scuba, dirt bikes. Joined the army after being inspired by a country music song by Toby Keith. Also served in Afghanistan.
Leaves behind wife Julia, father Ralph, mom, Sue, step-father Mike, and two brothers.
Marcus Mathes, American hero.
Thank you to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And happy birthday to crazy defense attorney, veteran trial lawyer, Renee Rockwell.
Happy birthday, friend.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
