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Nancy Grace

Defense Memo Says Caylee`s Death Maybe Accidental

Aired November 05, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen 20 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell. The defense team puts it in writing. Tot mom`s defense? Little Caylee may have died after an overdose of sedatives. They go on to say the tot mom spent other people`s money, wrote bad checks, had a string of lovers and thrived on risky behavior. Then they try to explain why mothers murder their children. That`s right -- it`s all in writing -- they try to explain why mothers kill. This while the defense publicly claims little Caylee`s alive, kidnapped by the nanny and living in Mexico.

The clock ticking down on the state`s announcement whether the death penalty will be sought, deadline November 24, the defense actually arguing mom Casey Anthony too young to get the death penalty. How old do they think little Caylee was? And in a play for sympathy, they display the tot mom`s own baby pictures, maybe a mistake since they look eerily similar to 3-year-old Caylee.

A bizarre sighting of grandfather George at a heavily wooded area near the Anthony home, that spot a target for search after cell phone records reveal tot mom Casey making repeated trips to this exact area. Searchers and investigators zero in there to find Caylee. Texas Equusearch and a team of bounty hunters converge in Orlando as we speak. Tonight, where is Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is Caylee Marie Anthony tonight? Even today, Casey Anthony and her family would have you believe she is still just like this, an achingly adorable little girl who has been far from home for far too long.

GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: I still believe in my heart and everything that we`re still getting tips and things like that, that my granddaughter is still out there. She`s alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee Anthony has never been found, and investigators believe the little girl is dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state is expected to announce its death penalty decision against tot mom Casey Anthony, charged with first degree murder in the disappearance of her 3-year-old daughter, Caylee. The defense attorneys plan on use baby pictures of Anthony to try and get the death penalty thrown out. Anthony`s lawyers say if Caylee`s death did occur, it was probably a tragic accident. They say Anthony has no criminal record, she`s a good and loving mom, but a troubled one who may be suffering from depression.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your daughter in a better place?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: No, she`s not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried about her?

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m absolutely petrified. If she was with her family right now, she`d be in the best place. She`s not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, she`s either in a dumpster right now, she`s buried somewhere -- she`s out there somewhere, and her rotting body is starting to decompose.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: One thing I know is she loves that child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An attorney hired by tot mom Casey Anthony`s defense team is reportedly asking prosecutors to show Anthony some mercy and not seek the death penalty. They`re using baby pictures of their client to help their cause. Those photos show Anthony as a baby, playing with her brother and with family members. Anthony`s lawyers say if Caylee`s death did occur, it was probably a tragic accident, and they say Caylee may have been poisoned by chloroform while she was possibly sedated. Anthony`s defense team also says she`s an unlikely candidate for the death penalty because she has no criminal record. And they say she may be suffering from depression or mental illness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re worried that if we find that out, that people are going to look at you the wrong way?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On a separate note, Caylee`s grandfather, George Anthony, was reportedly spotted last week in an area where searches are expected to resume for the little girl.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is another wooded area that`s easily accessible by car yet easy to disappear into. And it`s less than four miles from where Casey Anthony and Caylee lived with Casey`s parents. The Channel 9 viewer told us she saw Caylee`s grandfather, George`s, car parked in this area about 6:15 PM on October 30 and that he was staring into the woods. Then she saw him get into his car and drive away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. To say it is bad enough. To put it in writing, unheard of. I`m reading what reports say was in this defense memo. They actually state if death did occur, it was almost certainly due to an unwitting overdose of sedative, and they allude to chloroform?

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: That`s right. They say it was almost certainly a tragic accident, that she might have been poisoned by chloroform, also might have been under the effects of a sedative, maybe an unwitting overdose of a sedative, and again, as you said, using baby pictures of Casey to gain some sympathy from prosecutors in deciding whether to go after the death penalty in this case.

GRACE: Out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. What happened to, Caylee`s alive, she`s been kidnapped by Zenaida Gonzalez and she`s living in Mexico? What happened to that? Why are we suddenly finding out about a memo -- that is not for the public, I might add, we`re not supposed to find out about this -- the defense writes a memo that says the child may have died by an unwitting overdose? Like Caylee climbed into the medicine cabinet and accidentally got some Robitussin?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Right. There was no mention of Zenaida Gonzalez today. But even today, Jose Baez did say that they still are, you know, under the belief that Caylee Anthony is alive, even as they`re laying out, basically, their defense of why she shouldn`t get the death penalty, among other reasons that she was young, that she may have been mentally ill. One of her attorneys even said, you know, that she is mentally ill, that he wanted her to get a psychiatric evaluation, but Jose Baez wouldn`t let that happen.

GRACE: OK. This is so wrong. We are taking your calls live. The defense actually putting it in writing -- and of course, it got leaked -- that little Caylee may have died from an accidental overdose, alluding to the chloroform found in the tot mom`s car trunk.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. I can`t wait to hear this. Everybody, child advocate out of LA, you know her well, Gloria Allred, joining us tonight, veteran defense attorney Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta, defense attorney Renee Rockwell also joining us out of Atlanta.

Ray, what were they thinking? What were they thinking to, number one, even say this, and number two, put it in writing?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, let me take a contrarian approach to this. I think they knew it was going to get leaked. I think a very -- much more savvy defense counsel is trying to steer this to a guilty plea to count three of that indictment, the aggravated manslaughter count, the language of which permits a plea if there was an accidental death. And I think that`s where they`re going.

GRACE: OK. Let me see -- there he is. So Raymond Giudice, what would be accidental about putting a rag soaked in chloroform over a child`s mouth and leaving her in the car trunk?

GIUDICE: If what she was trying to accomplish was to sedate the child or calm the child down or medicate the child...

GRACE: Medicate the child...

GIUDICE: ... and the child died accidentally.

GRACE: You know what, Ray? You know, I know you haven`t given birth, but typically, when a mother wants to calm a child, you sing it a lullaby. Maybe you take it to the window. Maybe you get up and walk around with it. You don`t give it chloroform.

GIUDICE: And that`s the difference why it would be a felony, Nancy. I agree with you, it`s a crime. But the difference is, it`s not a capital death penalty homicide, and that`s where the defense is going.

GRACE: You know what? You are making me break my vow to give up cursing, Ray Giudice. Gloria Allred, please explain the theory of felony murder and why this would be a murder one, if this scenario is correct.

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, it could possibly be murder one. And you know, here`s the question that I have, too, Nancy, which is, why, if they want to claim insanity, would they not permit a mental exam of their client?

GRACE: Well, I can tell you that, Gloria.

ALLRED: Why?

GRACE: Because they`re still saying the child is -- publicly, anyway, Jose Baez, the defense, is saying the child is alive, she was kidnapped by a nanny, and she`s well and thriving in Puerto Rico or Mexico or Texas. This was not to be leaked. This is completely contrary to their public position.

ALLRED: They`re trying to have the best of all worlds, and they can`t. They`re going to have to choose a theory. They`re going to have to have facts that support their theory, and they`re going to have to stick to it. They`re not going to be able to have it all.

GRACE: Renee Rockwell, you know, when you try to go and work out a deal with prosecutors, you don`t put it in a written memo that`s going to be made part of the record, the public record. That`s not the way it works. If you have confidential things to tell the prosecutor, you go meet with them and tell them.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, and make sure all the rooms are closed, and there`s no tape recording running, Nancy. It`s just so reckless to me. It`s so reckless that I almost have to agree with Ray that somebody may have wanted this to leak out only maybe to poison the thousands of the jury venire in the event that...

GRACE: Really? Really?

ROCKWELL: ... this case does go to trial.

GRACE: Because the effect that it`s having, after all that the public has been put through, much less the grandparents, all of the volunteers out there searching, looking for her, all the people looking for her on the streets, calling in tips, and now we find out the defense puts it in writing? Let me just go ahead and quote it. "May have been poisoned by an accidental" -- excuse me -- "unwitting overdose of sedative"? That`s supposed to engender my sympathy, Renee?

ROCKWELL: Well, Nancy, they`re just putting it out there because all the publicity so far has been so negative. And I`m waiting for some type of a change of venue, Nancy. I don`t see how there`s going to be -- if there`s a trial in this case, I don`t see how they`ll ever find a fair hearing.

GRACE: Well, here you go, artfully dancing away from the topic.

Mike Brooks, you know what? This whole panel, except for Allred, is upside-down.

(LAUGHTER)

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: As usual! Well, And I`ll say Ray usually is a little bit on point.

GRACE: Come on. It`s out there. I`ve got it right here, quotes from the memo where they actually say -- first of all, they talk about her risky behavior, a string of relationships with men, spending money she didn`t have, writing bad checks. And they go on to say an unwitting overdose of sedatives may have resulted in Caylee`s death? After they`ve led police on a wild goose chase, lambasted them for not searching for Caylee alive, and now we get this?

BROOKS: You know, it sounds like Morgan (ph). They`ve created a false hope, you know, with George and Cindy. Now they put this out there. It sounds like they`re trying to go for the manslaughter, or they`re trying to make up a defense that she`s mentally deficient.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me the truth, and we can work with that. Or if you continue down this path and continue lying, I can tell you that when this snowball gets to the bottom of the hill, the only person who`s going to get hurt is you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not true. A lot of people around you get hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your parents...

CASEY ANTHONY: A lot of people are hurting right now and...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you know what? One person could put a stop to that.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve been trying.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On her MySpace page dated July 7, a week before Caylee was reported missing, Anthony posted, "What is given can be taken away. Everyone lies, everyone dies, life will never be easy."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: In a stunning defense memo, in writing, the defense admits that little Caylee may have died of an unwitting drug overdose.

We are taking your calls live. To Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. It doesn`t seem possible that the babies are a year old.

GRACE: Sheeba...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am just -- it`s just amazing.

GRACE: I can`t believe it. I can`t believe it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are beautiful.

GRACE: You know what? I wake up in the night sometimes and just say a prayer of thanks that they are alive and healthy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you get up and go look at them.

GRACE: I do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know you do.

GRACE: All night!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I know you do, honey. My question is, if Casey -- not Casey -- yes, if Casey has lied all throughout her growing-up stage, and her mother and father -- and I must say, especially her mother, kept covering up for her and doing all these things, does she not realize yet she`s raised a brat and a probable murderer? And as far as they said mental thing, I don`t think she has a mental incapacity because she`s only had one child out of wedlock. She has enough about her mind that she knows about birth control.

GRACE: She certainly does, apparently, to Sheeba in Illinois. Now, that`s one part of the discovery we are not privy to.

Let`s go to Dr. Caryn Stark, psychologist, joining us in New York. Caryn, the memo goes on to suggest that tot mom Casey Anthony has mental problems, possibly even depression. Number one, that doesn`t rise to insanity. But number two, have you seen her on that stripper pole? Have you seen her making out with the other girl while she`s dancing in the mini-dress and a push-up bra? That does not look like depression to me. But I`m just a lawyer. Weigh in.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: You`re right, Nancy. That is not depression. She really fits the sociopath, not depression. This is somebody who, as they say there, does risky things, really attempts to do things she shouldn`t. She forges checks and fraud.

GRACE: Here`s your (INAUDIBLE) depression. The depression is on the left in the blue mini-dress. Go ahead.

STARK: Yes, this is not depression. This is definitely not depression. We know that. We know this is sociopathic behavior. It`s not depression.

GRACE: We don`t know anything because we are just trial lawyers. You explain it to me.

STARK: That`s what I`m trying to tell you. If you do that kind of stuff, it`s like a con artist, when you`re doing fraudulent checks, when you`re running around and doing all that dancing that you`re describing, when you have risky behavior. You take those kind of chances because you need to have that exhilaration. That`s a sociopath, that is not a depressive personality.

GRACE: Out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, soon to converge there in Orlando in the search for little Caylee. Surprised at this written memo by the defense?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: No. But let me backtrack just a bit, Nancy, for just a second, please. On the 15th, when her mom was choking her and she ran out of the house, she didn`t take no Xanax with her. She had to come up with something. She had the chloroform. She quieted the child, put her in the trunk of the car, but she also left the rag in the trunk, which created enough chloroform there to kill her.

Now, the situation as far as the -- the notation about, if there was a death, it was accidental, it doesn`t surprise me at all because they know we`re going to find the body by Monday, and at that time, all bets are off. The state prosecutor doesn`t have to make a deal. So if she`s going to make a deal, she`d better hurry up and do it now while she`s got some bargaining chips. Otherwise, it`s all over for her. And the attorney, Jose, and the gentleman from Miami, who`s very detached from being involved with her personally, is telling them, We better do something now because these guys are going to find the body.

GRACE: To Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, famed forensic scientist joining us from John Jay College of Criminal Justice. He is a paid consultant to the Casey Anthony defense team. Koby (ph), now, all along, you`ve been telling me how it`s very uncertain as to the body farm tests, about the chloroform being in the trunk. And now the defense has a written memo stating if Caylee`s dead, it`s likely to -- excuse me, unwitting overdose of sedative?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, Nancy, I find this very interesting. Obviously, the most...

GRACE: Interesting?

KOBILINSKY: ... the most important goal for the defense is getting this -- this capital punishment possibility off the table, and they`re coming up with every mitigating circumstance that they possibly...

GRACE: And that`s supposed to make me have faith in them, that they`re throwing the kitchen sink at me?

KOBILINSKY: Well, this is legal strategy. And I`m not a lawyer, but it seems to me...

GRACE: Just legal strategy?

KOBILINSKY: ... that putting something in writing is not always the best way to go. But I`m not a lawyer.

GRACE: OK, so your response is they shouldn`t have put it in writing.

KOBILINSKY: I`m saying that, you know, that`s a step beyond what they needed to do. But I`m not making the call.

GRACE: Doesn`t it concern you that they want you to come up with ways to punch holes in the state`s case?

KOBILINSKY: Well, that`s the job...

GRACE: Which you have the intellect and the knowledge to do. You have the power to do that with your knowledge.

KOBILINSKY: That`s true.

GRACE: You, among all people, would be able to do that. But now you see in writing that they`re actually saying point-blank, the child may be dead to an unwitting overdose of sedative, when they want you -- does the truth not mean anything in this arena?

KOBILINSKY: It certainly does. This is a legal strategy. I mean, I`m concerned that the state needs to do top-notch, reliable work at the highest standards. If they may take somebody`s freedom or life away, they have to be held to the highest standards, especially with scientific analysis.

GRACE: So you`re throwing it onto the state. It doesn`t concern you that this is just a strategy and the truth means nothing to the defense?

KOBILINSKY: We`re all interested in justice, Nancy, but we have to make sure that the testing is reliable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lee says partly because of that atrocious smell in the car, their mother angrily confronted Casey about her claim that the nanny took Caylee, telling Casey, quote, "We could have found her a month ago. Why did you wait? What have you done?"

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CINDY ANTHONY: I`ve never seen her be a bad mom. She loves her daughter. I don`t doubt that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lee relayed to investigators how Casey started pouring her heart out about the tension between her and their mother over Caylee, starting by quoting Casey as saying, "Mom has thrown it in my face many times before that I`m an unfit mother, and you know, maybe she`s right and maybe I am."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Jim in Michigan. Hi, Jim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Hi, Nancy. How`re you doing?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had a question regarding the grandparents` finances, and I wondered if you or Leonard knew if they were paid for the interview last week on the "Today" show.

GRACE: Interesting question. Leonard Padilla, what do you know?

PADILLA: My understanding is they weren`t paid for the interview. What the television media people do is they license photos and things of that nature, which I believe they were paid for, and then they throw in an interview for free. But they were paid a licensing fee for...

GRACE: Do you know how much?

PADILLA: I`ve heard all the way up to 200 thou.

GRACE: To Natisha Lance, our producer. Natisha, what do we know? Were they paid for the photos and video, so you can get around saying you paid for the interview?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: I`m hearing the same reports as Leonard Padilla is hearing, actually, Nancy. There is speculation they were paid for these photos, as well as video, upwards to $200,000.

GRACE: When you say speculation, speculation by whom? I mean, is it family members or is it sources that know the family members?

LANCE: No, it`s actually speculation from the media that has been coming out about this.

GRACE: To Kathryn in Connecticut. Hi, Kathryn.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just want to let you know, last night when you made that dedication to your children, hats off to you. I don`t know how you did it with a straight face. I would have cried. Knowing what you went through to have those beautiful children and having to watch this every night, it`s absolutely atrocious. A couple questions...

GRACE: Hold on. Hold on, Kathryn. We`re going to break, and we`ll pick it up in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: My granddaughter, Caylee Marie Anthony, who`s age 3, is alive. I`m going to find her.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The Channel 9 viewer told us she saw Caylee`s grandfather George`s car parked in this area about 6:15 p.m. on October 30th and that he was staring into the woods. Then she saw him get into his car and drive away.

She figured he might have been here looking for Caylee, and the information was passed on to law enforcement.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: George and I don`t believe that Caylee`s in the woods or -- you know, out there. We believe someone has her and that she`s alive.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The search for little Caylee Anthony`s body is underway.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Equusearch is back in town, making plans for the next search scheduled to begin on Saturday.

G. ANTHONY: My focus is always on my granddaughter, it always will be.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Grandparents George and Cindy Anthony have been put through hell, publicly stating that the little girl is still alive, but now we get a defense memo that states the girl likely dead because of an unwitting overdose of sedative?

They seem to throw the kitchen sink.

Out to the lawyers, Gloria Allred, Ray Giudice, Renee Rockwell.

Gloria, they say, OK, we don`t think she is dead, but if she is dead, it`s because of an unwitting overdose, and even if she is dead, they -- mom has a mental illness, she`s been depressed and they go on and on and on about her erratic behavior.

I mean, which defense are we supposed to pick?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, exactly. But I think what they`re trying to do here, Nancy, is obviously they`re trying to argue the prosecutors don`t seek the death penalty against her. Because if she did, if she was responsible for little Caylee`s death, it was an accident, or it wasn`t intentional, it wasn`t premeditated, first-degree murder.

But, by the way, if it was an accident why no 9-1-1 call? Why no cry for help? That`s the problem they have.

GRACE: What about that, Ray?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I agree. But let me also say that there`s a new sheriff in town. This is new defense counsel, and experienced death penalty counsel. He`s evaluating this case in a much more sophisticated level than Mr. Baez was.

He`s not worried if he gets you angry, Nancy, or has inconsistent defenses, he is trying to keep his client from having a lethal injection.

GRACE: Renee?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree with Ray, Nancy. This -- his only job at this point is to keep her alive at the end of the day.

GRACE: Let`s take a look at women who have been sentenced to death in Florida.

Of course, Arlene Wuornos, later played by Charlize Theron. She -- serial killer, seven murders. Tiffany Cole, currently on death row, killed two people. Anna Cardona killed her son. Judias Buenoano, first female murderer executed in Florida since `76, she poisoned her husband.

Virginia Larzelere, currently on death row, killed husband. Andrea Hicks Jackson killed police officer. Marie Dean Arrington killed Husband. Sonja Jacobs, murder of two officers.

So it does happen in Florida that women are sentenced to the death penalty. And in this case, they are also arguing she is not an appropriate candidate for the death penalty. But the reality is, the murder of a child under 12 is an aggravating circumstance for the death penalty, in Florida, Gloria?

ALLRED: Well, yes and so that`s the problem. All they can do is make their best argument. It`s going to be up to the prosecutor and perhaps the prosecutor is committing to advise the prosecutor as to whether or not to seek the death penalty.

Does this case fall within their guidelines for deciding that a death penalty should be sought? That`s going to be the issue.

GRACE: To Tim Miller, head of Texas Equusearch, leading the search for Caylee, he is there in Orlando, poised to start the search, and he has got a multitude of volunteers, of bounty hunters, of professionals, military, former cops there to help him.

Tim Miller, I understand that you have spoken with the Anthony family this time?

TIM MILLER, HEAD OF EQUUSEARCH, LEADING SEARCH FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: I spoke with Cindy last night. I spoke with her a couple times a day. It was very pleasant conversation, and -- and, again, Nancy, nobody has ever walked in the shoes of this family right here in this.

GRACE: That`s true.

MILLER: You know, I support -- I support them. And.

GRACE: I know you do. And you always have.

Tim, do the Anthonys tell you that they believe little Caylee is still alive?

MILLER: They do tell me that. And.

GRACE: OK.

MILLER: And I wouldn`t -- never want to discredit them for believing that.

GRACE: Well, then, what do you make of this defense memo outlining how little Caylee may have died of an unwitting overdose of sedative, i.e., chloroform?

MILLER: I think that -- that gives us more reason to put on this huge search that we`re putting together in a -- I mean, the calls and e-mails we`re getting, Nancy, we`ve got over -- people from over 32 states here, they`re coming, people from Canada, from Puerto Rico.

Everybody is falling in love with little Caylee across the country, across the world.

GRACE: They certainly have.

MILLER: And the support is unbelievable. And Nancy, I want to say something to you, if I can, please. You know, you`ve said so many kind words to me, but I just want to tell you that we actually got a check in the mail when Larry said he wanted checks mailed to your show.

A check went to your show, and then you all mailed that to us, and we opened that this morning. And it was a check from one of your viewers that said, please, this donation is for Texas Equusearch for Caylee Anthony`s search. And it is in honor of your children`s birthdays.

And Nancy, what you`ve given to the viewers, what your children have given, how many hearts you`ve touched. But, yes, we got a check in honor of your children`s birthdays, and it just really warmed our hearts.

And, you know, thank you for everything you do. And everybody, just pray for the Anthonys during this period of time, and see if we can bring this to a close.

GRACE: We are. And so many people are. And thank you for that, for what you just said.

Speaking of the Anthonys, to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, what about this report that Mr. Anthony was out staring into one of the areas that is -- an area that is targeted for search?

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Yes. That report was from last Thursday, which would have been October 30th, and the report was that basically he was kind of staring off into those woods around Orlando International Airport where Texas Equusearch is going to be searching here in the next couple of days.

A spokesman from the Jose Baez law firm said that he was aware that he was out there.

GRACE: For?

PETRIMOULX: Basically, what they suggested is that maybe he was out there to find a new place to set up a kid-finder tent.

GRACE: With me, Drew Petrimoulx from WDBO and Kathi Belich with WFTV.

Back to Catherine in Connecticut.

Catherine, dear, what was your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question, and it`s sort of been touched on. The venue. I know that it was mentioned, but then after today`s disclosure, you know, and the defense, obviously, is putting that out there. I mean.

GRACE: So you`re wondering if they`re going to seek a change of venue?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A change of venue, yes.

GRACE: Gotcha.

Gloria Allred, Ray Giudice, Renee Rockwell, I don`t see how they can afford not to get a change of venue, Renee.

ROCKWELL: Well, Nancy, the question is, can you find a juror that`s going to be able to sit and be fair, given all the publicity. And when you look at the citizens that have come out just against -- they are mad, they are vicious. They are mad at the parents of Casey Anthony.

GRACE: So what are you trying to say?

ROCKWELL: They are passive. I`m just saying.

GRACE: There is or -- will or will not be a change of venue?

ROCKWELL: I`m saying they`re going to ask for it, because I think they deserve it. I don`t think they can find a fair juror there.

GRACE: Take a look at the cities there in Florida, possible change of venues, Tallahassee, Pensacola, St. Pete, Ft. Myers, Hollywood, West Palm, Cape Coral, Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville.

There are plenty of places to go. But as of right now, Gloria Allred, no request for change of venue. Why?

ALLRED: Well, maybe they think that they`re not really going to have any better chance elsewhere, or maybe they`re just not going to ask for a change of venue. But even if they do ask, asking doesn`t mean they`re going to get. They`re still going to have to prove that they can`t find fair and impartial jurors where they are. And.

GRACE: Agree, Ray?

GIUDICE: Yes.

ALLRED: Usually jurors say that they can be fair and impartial.

GIUDICE: If it`s a capital case, the defense will make a motion for change of venue. The judge will grant it so as to take reversible error out of the trial.

GRACE: Yes, better safe than sorry.

Everybody, as we go to break, we`re taking your calls live, but I want to tell you about some breaking news.

There`s a massive search underway right now. It`s in Dallas where a 4-year-old little girl abducted after her mother stabbed in a parking lot. Please look. Police say Tonoko Cipriano took off in his ex-girlfriend`s red Toyota with this little girl, Yameli Nava.

License plate L-Love-W-P, Peter 5999. If you have information, please, call Dallas PD 214-671-4268.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S DEFENSE LAWYER: Casey is going through a nightmare.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: There`s that chance that I might not see Caylee again.

BAEZ: She has a missing child.

C. ANTHONY: I have no clue where she is. I am absolutely petrified.

G. ANTHONY: My focus is always on my granddaughter, it always will be.

CINDY ANTHONY: It just seems like from our perspective, all it seemed like from day one, you have been building a case against Casey as a murderer. She`s not a murderer. One thing I know is she loves that child.

C. ANTHONY: I just want my daughter back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to the lines, to Kathleen in Maryland, hi, Kathleen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I`m glad you just played that little clip there. My question actually goes way back to when Casey`s mom called -- put in that 9-1-1 call, and she said, I really think my daughter did something.

I mean, as a mother, you feel real strong about those feelings when you put your daughter out there and say you think she did something to her daughter.

Why is it now she is recanting those feelings, and she`s not even playing on that anymore? She is just totally, you know, she didn`t do anything, she is still alive. How can the Anthonys think this?

GRACE: Caryn Stark?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can they think that their granddaughter is alive?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: They need to think it. They really need to think it, because that is what gives them hope and keeps them alive. This is not a bad mother, this grandmother. She was a good mother. And she really needs to defend her daughter. That`s what she wants.

GRACE: Everyone, this, after a bombshell defense memo has been released to the media. Long story short, in the memo, the defense team states that little Caylee may have died from an unwitting overdose of sedative. Chloroform, for instance.

Stunning revelation. After all this time, they have been arguing little Caylee is alive and well, having been kidnapped. And we remember, all the gyrations, Mike Brooks, that tot mom Casey Anthony put police through. I was at Jay Blanchard Park, I worked at Universal, the nanny was at Sawgrass Apartments, they drove her around and around all over Orlando, trying to find the baby.

Now this.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, Nancy, you know, you go back and as the caller is talking about, it goes all the way back to July 15th, when her world started crumbling down around her when her mother came over to Tony Lazzaro`s house and confronted her.

The same day that she was also confronted by Amy Huizinga about the money that was stolen and that`s when her mother said get your things, we`re out of here, and that`s when she went back and made that 9-1-1 call, and that`s when Casey`s world started going downhill, fast.

GRACE: To Jeanne in Massachusetts, hi, Jeanne.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I just first want to say thanks for all you`re doing, congratulations on your beautiful family. Your twins are so beautiful.

GRACE: I`m really blessed, thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re so lucky to have you and David.

I actually just have two quick questions, Nancy. The first one is if her parents are staying away because of the question of the calls being recorded and people listening, I don`t understand that, because I`m a mother myself, and any mother would want to see her child, just to say hello and say I love you and support you.

So I don`t understand why no one has been to the jail to see her.

And then the second question was, I`m just questioning, I`m a health care professional myself. I actually work in an operating room and I`m a nurse. And when any anesthetic is given or anything is given, and to talk about this poor little girl being given chloroform, most young children, any (INAUDIBLE) anesthetic agent, even it`s tainted with a scent, it`s on them.

Initially they might be a little cooperative, then they go through a disoriented stage, Nancy. Where I could not understand how any mother could not put their child through this.

GRACE: What do you mean disorientation, Jeanne?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, they start to fight you and they`re pushing you away and it`s just -- it`s like a disorientation phase before they fall asleep. It`s a horrible thing -- I mean little children.

GRACE: Listen, you know what? For all of the people I put behind bars for all those years, it kills me to even give the children medicine when I have to give them medicine in one of those droppers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh it`s horrible.

GRACE: Can`t hardly stand it. Lucy always clinches her mouth shut. It`s horrible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I`m just wondering if that would be a mitigating factor as well for her, with this being a death penalty case.

GRACE: You mean aggravating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aggravating, I apologize. Yes.

GRACE: You know, excellent question.

To Gloria Allred, what a child would go through, if this is a mode of death, would that be an aggravating circumstance?

ALLRED: You know, I don`t really think so. I think, really, what her intent was and what her actions were really are more relevant on this issue. And, you know -- and I have to ask, how can she be insane and do this? I mean she has to show a mental disease or defect. She has to know -- she would have to show that she didn`t know what she did was wrong.

GRACE: Gloria, Gloria, Gloria.

ALLRED: Yes.

GRACE: Have you seen the shot of her snugged up to the boy friend, trouncing through the Blockbuster on the day police think this likely may have happened?

ALLRED: Well, yes, and exactly. And that`s why I`m saying.

GRACE: She`s not crazy.

ALLRED: . I think she will have a really hard time with that kind of defense.

HAMMER: You know, to Ray and Renee, it`s -- you know, payback is hell, isn`t it, Ray, when your client there at Blockbuster, snugged up to the boyfriend on the day police theorize she killed her child?

GIUDICE: Look, Nancy, Miss Anthony and her parents have done absolutely nothing to help her case from day one. And I think that answers the earlier caller.

GRACE: What does that have to do with what I just said?

GIUDICE: Well, let me just say that, it doesn`t help. I agree with you. It hurts the case, and I wanted to respond to a caller who said why is no one going to visit her? The new lawyer is saying, you people can`t be trusted. You mouth off, you talk too much. And I`m taking control of this case, stay away from the jail.

GRACE: Renee, the video hurts.

ROCKWELL: Video hurts, and just to piggyback with Ray.

GRACE: Any attempt at insanity -- there she is, you know, at Blockbuster?

ROCKWELL: Nancy, they have not made one good move, there has not been one good photograph. There`s not been one good.

GRACE: That`s not the defense attorneys` fault.

ROCKWELL: There`s not been one.

GRACE: That`s Casey Anthony`s fault. Don`t lay that on Baez.

ROCKWELL: Exactly. No, no, no, I`m not blaming anybody. But she has absolutely, with these fantastic stories, painted herself into such a corner that if there is ever a trial, she is going to have to respond to everything that the state throws out.

GRACE: I want to go back to the search. It`s just about to commence.

Mike Brooks, how will it work?

BROOKS: Well, Nancy, you know, Leonard Padilla and his bounty hunters, along with Tim Miller who is the best in the business, they will put -- they`re starting to put everything together.

Tim is putting -- starting to put together his whole game plan along with Orange County and all these thousands of volunteers that are going to be out there. And I`m glad to see that they`re going to have volunteers who are actually, you know, like bounty hunters, retired police officers, firefighters, who know how to handle evidence should they come across it.

But it`s -- it could be a lengthy process. But I hope they will find it and I -- I really think they will.

GRACE: Leonard Padilla, weigh in.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPING TO SEARCH FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: Well, you know, the other day somebody was saying, what makes you think -- I says if we have to drain every pond and gut every gator, we`re going to find little Caylee.

We`ve got the people, we`ve got the manpower and we`ve got the area and we`ve got the best, Tim Miller. Tim Miller, directing this search is the best there is.

GRACE: Leonard, you spent time with the Anthonys. How do you think they are responding to this memo, this bombshell that the defense just dropped on us?

PADILLA: Well, right now they`ve got a situation they have to decide. Are they going to stick with Casey in this thing about the baby being alive or are they going to go and help us search for little Caylee and be ho honorable about it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: There is only one reason that my daughter would keep her mouth shut and my daughter would sacrifice going to prison for the rest of her life. It`s to protect this child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Cindy and George wholeheartedly believe their granddaughter is still alive and their daughter is innocent.

G. ANTHONY: There`s a lot more to the story than you guys can ever, every imagine. And it`s all going to come out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to the lines, Diane in Louisiana, hi, Diane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: And hello to all of our Cajun friends. How are you tonight? What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are just fine. You`re great. Me and my sister love you. You should have run for president. Is it true.

GRACE: Don`t have the stomach for politics.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you heard that Casey got a letter from Scott Peterson in jail?

GRACE: Diane, Diane, it`s not true. I know it`s all in the tabloids. Isn`t that correct, Natisha Lance? That`s all B.S.?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s correct, Nancy. It`s not true whatsoever. There`ve been report saying that they have some type of love affair going on and once they`re released they`re going to come together. But it`s completely not true.

GRACE: Once they are released?

LANCE: If they were released.

GRACE: OK.

Back to Kathi Belich with WFTV, I understand the defense actually doesn`t mind that this memo has been made public?

KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: It seems like that is where it would have come from. I`ve talked to the prosecutor`s office here. They call it outrageous that a document like this was released before it`s been in -- filed in court.

The judge is not aware of this document and it`s -- now the public is aware of it. They are calling it inexcusable.

GRACE: Does that mean that -- does that mean, Drew Petrimoulx, that the defense leaked it?

PETRIMOULX: You know, we don`t know that for sure, but I mean, I`m sure you could ask your lawyers that some of the things they do just don`t make sense on one hand arguing that Caylee is definitely alive and on the other hand laying out a case for why she shouldn`t get the death penalty because Caylee died on accident.

So a lot of the thing that the attorney has done doesn`t really make sense.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant First-Class Lawrence Ezell, 30, Portland, Texas, killed Iraq. On a third tour, also served in Afghanistan, highly decorated. Awarded the Bronze Star, Army Commendation medal, Army Achievement medal.

Dreamed of being a cop or military. Leaves behind grieving widow Christy and 2-year-old son, Tristan.

Lawrence Ezell, American hero.

Thank you to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END