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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Republican Blame Game Heats Up; Obama Announces Chief of Staff
Aired November 6, 2008 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news: after a dismal day on Wall Street, Asian markets now reacting, and reacting badly, Japan's Nikkei tumbling more than 7 percent in early trading. The Dow plunged more than 400 points today, lost more than 900 points, nearly 10 percent since Election Day, a grim reminder of the challenges ahead for Barack -- for president-elect Barack Obama. We will have all the details coming up.
The transition to power is picking up speed. Obama announced his first hire. Representative Rahm Emanuel, a top House Democrat, has agreed to be his chief of staff -- his reputation, a tough political infighter. And, already, conservatives are howling about it. We will also look at what other big names, John Kerry, Colin Powell, may also get a new job.
Also ahead in the hour: The Republican blame game gets nastier, new accusations about Governor Sarah Palin, just as she returns home to Alaska. We will have the latest.
And the nation's new first daughters, Sasha and Malia Obama, they will be the youngest kids to live in the White House in decades. Life is about to change dramatically for them. We will look at what may be ahead.
We begin, though, in Chicago, base camp for Barack Obama's transition to power. President-elect Obama started day two post- election with his usual morning workout, and then stayed mostly out of sight, getting down to the business of choosing his White House staff and preparing to take the reins of the presidency.
Here's CNN's Candy Crowley.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Old routines, the daily trip to the gym, now mixed with new ones, the first top-level intelligence briefing and phone calls with nine world leaders, who offer congratulations and began the getting-to-know-you phase.
Behind closed doors, one of the hallmarks of democracy is under way, the peaceful transfer of power. The incoming first couple will meet at the White House Monday with the outgoing first couple.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will ask administration officials to brief the Obama team on ongoing policy issues ranging from the financial markets to the war in Iraq. I look forward to discussing those issues with the president-elect early next week.
CROWLEY: In Chicago, the basics of a new team is coming together with old team faces. In what a source describes as done, Obama's senior White House adviser is likely to be David Axelrod, the main architect of the campaign, a longtime Obama friend.
DAVID AXELROD, CHIEF OBAMA CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST: He's been fighting this fight for change for a long time.
CROWLEY: As low-key as he is fiercely loyal, Axelrod is said to be the last person Obama calls at night.
Already lined up as chief of staff, Illinois Congressman Rahm Emanuel, an alumnus of the Clinton White House, temperamentally. The polar opposite of the cool, deliberative president-elect, Emanuel is hard-charging, blunt, hyper-partisan, which is to say, tough enough to keep everybody in their lanes at the White House, keep Hill Democrats in the corral, and protect the president and his agenda.
In discussions for press secretary, the most visible White House job, Robert Gibbs, also a loyal longtime Obama adviser who helped shape the campaign. Limbo is a tricky place. As one Obama source put it, there's only one president at a time, and we want to honor that.
Still, there are deliberate signals. After three days of flying below the radar, Obama will meet with his top economic advisers Friday, and cameras are invited in for the picture -- a clear message that the economy is the next president's top priority.
COOPER: All right, so Rahm Emanuel, David Axelrod. What about the Cabinet, the kind of high-profile picks? How soon do we expect those?
CROWLEY: They want to move pretty quickly on this, particularly when it comes to those key positions, treasury secretary, again, because they want to send out a strong signal that they're on top of this, that they are moving, kind of to reassure people.
You also might get State and Defense, fairly quickly, although fairly quickly is different in everybody's minds. Nonetheless, the -- the president-elect is having a news conference tomorrow, the first since he won the presidency. So, we may get some information there. I don't see any indication that we will get, say, a top-level Cabinet position.
But I think you will get the treasury secretary pretty soon. And, in that meeting we talked about, that economic meeting, there are a bunch of potential treasury secretaries meeting with him. So, you know, it will be big news no matter what you do.
Do they kind of clear...
CROWLEY: Go ahead. COOPER: Do they kind of clear this stuff for the White House, saying, you know, oh, we're going to have this meeting with our economic advisers? I mean, how do they coordinate this kind of stuff?
CROWLEY: No, they don't -- they don't coordinate it with the White House at all, those sorts of meetings.
I mean, obviously, they're coordinating at every level in every department, in terms of the transition. Obviously, the president going to welcome them to the White House, Obama and his wife to the White House, on Monday. So, there's that kind of what looks like very good cooperation. Both sides say it has been so far.
But, in terms of Obama out here meeting with his economic advisers, that's just planning for next year. And that's got nothing to do with George Bush.
COOPER: All right, Candy, thanks.
The transition of power under way tonight -- it's the first in eight years for Democrats. that long dry spell has kind of created a bit of a feeding frenzy, Democrats jockeying for key jobs in Obama's administration, a lot of names being floated, and more decisions could come as early as tomorrow.
With a look at that, here's CNN's Ed Henry.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To the victor belong the spoils. And, after eight years out of the White House, Democrats want to be spoiled with high-profile jobs.
JOE LOCKHART, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY FOR FORMER PRESIDENT WILLIAM J. CLINTON: For every senior job, there's probably 10 qualified people. And it's hard to be the person who has to tell the nine that they're not the number-one pick.
HENRY: Senior Democrats say John Kerry is jockeying to be secretary of state, and has a good case, after endorsing Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The next president of the United States!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
HENRY: But some Democrats worry, he can veer off message, just like vice president-elect Joe Biden, which keeps New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson and Republican Chuck Hagel in the hunt.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: We're going to cut some programs that don't work in order to provide health care.
HENRY: Health care is another top priority, and a natural fit in the Cabinet would be well-respected former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle.
But Democratic sources say Howard Dean, a medical doctor who had a strong run as Democratic Party chair, is hungry for the job. Speculation about treasury secretary has centered on Lawrence Summers, though he's faced controversy for sexist comments he made while serving as president of Harvard University. A dark horse to help stabilize the markets is former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker.
ALAN S. BLINDER, FORMER VICE CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL RESERVE: He's not a person that would stay four or eight years, given his age, but to get things started would be a fabulous choice.
HENRY: Plugged-in Democrats say, there is also serious talk of Obama briefly keeping President Bush's defense secretary, Robert Gates, on board, to show the new president is not just looking for yes-men.
LOCKHART: I think you need a mixture of loyalists, people that President Obama trusts and works with, and people from the outside, who bring a different perspective, who can question his decision, question his -- his judgment.
COOPER: Ed Henry joins us.
Now, I mean, is -- a lot of people expect change, expect something different and new. A lot of the names we're hearing are not necessarily different or new.
Is this just about rewarding people who, you know, gave you an endorsement during the campaign?
HENRY: Partially, it is. But Barack Obama obviously has to be careful to not just make it that, because, if you have just essentially patronage, you're not really going to have a new direction, as you say.
And, also, you have got to get down to brass tacks on some of these policies, as Candy was talking about. The financial crisis, you have got to get on that right away. And, so, you can't just find old faces. You have to tough mix it in with some new faces.
COOPER: So, is he going to bring in Republicans?
HENRY: There's a good chance of that, and one reason why, Barack Obama has given a clue repeatedly by saying he really enjoyed that book "Team of Rivals" about Abe Lincoln by...
COOPER: Doris Kearns Goodwin.
HENRY: ... Doris Kearns Goodwin, right, and, basically, that Lincoln brought all these people around the table, and they weren't all in agreement, in different parties, et cetera.
And that's why someone like Colin Powell could be at the table. That's why Chuck Hagel and even Robert Gates in the Bush administration. Obviously, Barack Obama has disagreed sharply with President Bush on Iraq, for example, but Robert Gates has been pretty much a realist, and has been not on the same page completely with the Bush administration, and has been pushing them to make changes. That could be a smart move.
COOPER: Right. Gates obviously brought in to replace Rumsfeld.
HENRY: That's right.
COOPER: Ed Henry, we will be watching. Thanks.
Let us know what you think of Obama's choices so far. Join the live chat, AC360.com. I'm about to log on. Check out Erica Hill's live Webcasts during the break as well.
Just ahead, president-elect Obama, he's called for Americans to pull together, but some ruby-red conservatives are already on the attack, pulling no punches. We will tell you what they are saying already.
And Governor Sarah Palin returning to Alaska, as new details about bitter infighting in the McCain campaign are leaking out -- coming up, the explosive new charges and Palin's response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. OBAMA: Love you.
SASHA OBAMA, DAUGHTER OF BARACK OBAMA: I love you, daddy. Bye.
B. OBAMA: Great.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Sasha Obama during the campaign, before her dad was elected president. Now she and her sister, Malia, are heading to the White House, the promise of a new puppy. What is life going to be like for them at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? We will look to the past for some answers.
COOPER: Well, if you believe exit polls, we have an Election Day surprise for you. Seventy-eight percent of conservatives voted for John McCain, but 20 percent of them supported Barack Obama. That's one out of five conservatives for the president-elect. We're going to talk to our panel about that in a moment.
But a lot of conservatives are already targeting Barack Obama.
360's Joe Johns has the "Raw Politics." (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): So much for kumbaya.
Hours after Barack Obama was elected, Rush Limbaugh, known on his show as the man who runs America, was back on the radio breathing fire, taking Obama and his now named chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, to the woodshed.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, "THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW")
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: He is good old-fashioned Chicago thug, just like Obama is a good old-fashioned Chicago thug.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
JOHNS: And it is true that, around the conservative world, the selection of Emanuel, who is viewed as a tough, often, but not always, partisan street fighter, wasn't exactly welcomed as a favorable sign.
David Keene of the American Conservative Union.
DAVID KEENE, CHAIRMAN, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION: If you're a candidate who says that "I'm running a campaign because I want to bring people together and I want to build bridges," and then he tells you that he's going to go out and hire Rahm Emanuel to build the bridge, you would have some real questions about him. You might hire Rahm to blow up the bridge. I don't know if you would hire him to build it.
JOHNS: The Republican National Committee pounced on Emanuel, saying, "Our nation will be ill-served if Obama runs the White House the way Rahmbo ran the Democratic Congress."
So, if you were thinking the country is somehow unified, think again. There are still deep divisions. Just because the president- elect says he's going to listen to conservatives, they say, doesn't mean he's going to govern from the middle.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, "THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW")
LIMBAUGH: You can listen all day long and do nothing about it, right? There's no unity with Obama.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
JOHNS: But make no mistake. Conservatives are not just looking outward at the Democrats after the loss. They're looking inward, too.
So, what was it the voters really rejected?
(on camera): Was it all about the Bush administration, or was it, for example, that the party of smaller government and less spending on the right had mushroomed the size of government and exploded the federal deficit?
KEENE: All those lines got blurred during the course of the last six or eight years. Republicans in Congress began to act like the Democrats that they had gotten rid of in the -- in the '90s. The president began to spend money like he was Lyndon Johnson. And the result was that voters began to get very upset. So, yes, you have to go back to your basics.
JOHNS (voice-over): And now at least two years to think about how to do that.
COOPER: Joe, so much for any honeymoon there for Barack Obama.
JOHNS: Well, it's sort of all over the place on Barack Obama.
You heard Rush Limbaugh. That's one view. And the RNC chimed in, as well.
David Keene, the guy in the piece, Anderson, from the American Conservative Union, makes the point that, hey, Barack Obama was elected the very same way Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980. You have got to give a guy a chance to -- before you go after him, at least, and, when he does something you disagree with, you go after him then.
The point is, Rahm Emanuel is one of the things conservatives would go after Barack Obama about.
COOPER: All right.
Joe Johns, thanks.
More from Joe and our panel in a moment.
From the right and from all around him, extreme challenges pile up for Barack Obama. What do his choices so far tell us about his rule? And will John Kerry and Colin Powell maybe have a place in the new White House?
Also, Obama's number-one priority, the economy, today, it got worse. It is our breaking news tonight: Asian markets on the decline right now. What's going on? Ali Velshi is live more with the crisis.
And the battle over gay marriage ban -- some 18,000 gay couples have already married in California. What happens to them? Ellen DeGeneres got married. Will her marriage suddenly be made illegal? Is that legal?
The latest -- coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RAHM EMANUEL (D), ILLINOIS: Here's the deal. My parents are alive to see their middle son have a choice in his career between being a congressman with one chance, one opportunity down the road, or maybe rising in the leadership, and being the chief of staff to a historic presidency at a historic time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Illinois Congressman Rahm Emanuel in Chicago today before he officially announced he would be Barack Obama's White House chief of staff.
Tomorrow, Obama's going to hold his first news conference since winning the election. He's going to meet with economic advisers.
The economy, issue number one, it's our breaking news tonight: Asian markets plunging after two terrible days on Wall Street. On Monday, he and Barack Obama and Michelle Obama will meet with President Bush and first lady Laura Bush at the White House. The transition certainly seems to be moving full steam ahead.
Let's talk some strategy. CNN senior political analyst and former presidential adviser David Gergen joins me, as well as CNN political contributor and Democratic strategist Paul Begala, who was involved in the transition for president-elect Bill Clinton, and 360's Joe Johns.
So, David, does Obama need to worry about what conservative like Rush Limbaugh are saying about Rahm Emanuel right now?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Not very much.
And, look, I think he's going to get a good honeymoon from Republicans, unlike the situation that faced George W. Bush and very unlike what face Bill Clinton. Neither man had a honeymoon.
But, in this case, with -- with the first African-American going to the White House, this deep reservoir of support from the country, Republicans know it would be suicidal to start attacking him from day one on an all-fronts basis. They are going to have to give him a honeymoon and, I think, work with him.
You're going to -- I think they will disagree with him on some things, like Rahm Emanuel. Paul Begala and I can attest to you, Rahm Emanuel is tough. But, you know, when it came to passing the NAFTA treaty some years ago, everybody said, Newt Gingrich, impossible partisan, he went to work with the White House to get the NAFTA treaty passed. Who was the guy in the White House he worked with? Rahm Emanuel.
COOPER: Paul, David said tough. In 2005, you were quoted -- and I'm sure you have been told -- mentioned this numerous times today -- you were describing by "Fortune" magazine describing Rahm Emanuel's political approach as a -- quote -- "cross between a hemorrhoid and a toothache."
COOPER: Is it safe to say the...
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Can I...
COOPER: A, is that -- do you still stand by that?
BEGALA: Well, I -- what's the holy trinity? I was misquoted, I was taken out of context, and I never said it?
BEGALA: I -- I said it. I meant it. I stand by it.
BEGALA: Here is what I was talking about, though.
I was talking about his persistence. He is really one of the best friends I have in this -- on this earth. There's nobody I'm closer to than -- than Rahm.
And he comes at you when he wants something, and he never stops. And that's what I was talking about. At that time, he was bugging me to work for free for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. He had me all over the country. He had me recruiting, raising money, offering free strategy advice.
And I did it because he kept pestering me and bugging me. That kind of determination, that kind of persistence, that kind of pain-in- the-neck, shall we say, approach is going to be very effective...
BEGALA: ... I think, for president-elect Obama. I think it's exactly what the new president needs.
COOPER: But, Joe, it certainly raises concerns among -- well, we heard it from Rush Limbaugh -- but among other Republicans that all that talk about bipartisanship is going to go out the window.
JOHNS: Sure. And there's always that question among the Republicans.
There are some people who are sort of suspicious. But there are a lot of other people out there who are -- as I said at the top: Give this guy a chance. Let's see what he does. He talks about getting rid of the idea of red states and blue states. Maybe this thing is going to go somewhere.
The Republicans also know, as we already heard there at the top, that, hey, if you go after this guy at the very beginning, you might just very well marginalize yourself -- Anderson.
COOPER: David, what are some of the other big names out there and some of the likelihood, I mean, John Kerry, Richardson? We have about Colin Powell, perhaps.
GERGEN: Well, there's a lot of talk about John Kerry or Bill Richardson going to the State Department.
There's talk, interestingly, about Colin Powell going to the Department of Education. I actually talked to Colin Powell about that eight years ago, recommended he think about that, because he would be a symbol for it. They have to first figure out, on the national security team, what about Bob Gates at Defense? He's a Republican. Does he stay?
There are some snags in that conversation about whether he's going to -- they will keep him or not, or whether he will want to stay or not. And, once they decide that, they can then decide who goes to State, because, if you put a Democrat over at -- over at -- if you keep a Republican at Defense, you're going to put a Democrat at State.
If you put a Democrat at Defense, you may want to think about a Republican at the State Department, like Chuck Hagel. So, this is a complicated board.
And, to go to Joe John's point, you have got to give the guy a little time to see how the pieces fall into place. Treasury is a complicated story. I do think he's going to have in the room with him tomorrow -- just after this grim jobs report comes out tomorrow, on top of these terrible numbers coming out of Wall Street, he will have at least three candidates for the secretary of the treasury job right there in that room, with Larry Summers, and Laura Tyson, and Paul Volcker.
COOPER: Paul, Lawrence Summers had the job in the Clinton administration for a while there. That's got to be one of the most challenging spots to fill. I mean, just look at our breaking news banner there, "Wall Street Sell-Off, Asian Markets Falling Now." I mean, it's a bleak picture.
BEGALA: It is. And that's why I'm so impressed with the -- the -- the team of rivals that president-elect Obama is pulling together to advise him on this. And David named some of them.
It also includes Tim Geithner, who, while a Democrat and a Clinton administration veteran, has also been -- currently at the New York Fed. He's the president of the New York Fed, was instrumental in putting together that -- that bailout package. This is a great group of people that Senator Obama is -- president-elect Obama -- correct -- forgive me -- is turning to.
And that's what you need. This is not a time to be messing around here. I think it's very important to have a bipartisan approach. But I think David's right. It's more probably likely and probably more necessary on the foreign policy, where -- where you really do want to try to stitch back together the old tradition of America having a bipartisan foreign policy.
COOPER: Very briefly, Paul, you have been there before. What's your best advice on the transition?
BEGALA: One president at a time. Don't comment on every up and down, and, you know, stop attacking George W. Bush. He is our president.
And -- and banish the notion of 100 days. Stop it. I would issue an edict. I would fire anybody immediately who talks about 100 days. This -- and president-elect Obama did this so wonderfully in his speech at Grant Park. This will take at least a year or a full term or two terms. We're in a deep, deep hole here. It's going to take a long time to get out of it.
COOPER: David, you have been in the White House as well. What's your advice?
GERGEN: I -- I agree with everything he just said.
First, set your strategy. What are your priorities? Then, figure out who is going to get you there. Plan out your first few months in office. And, very importantly, get some rest.
GERGEN: You know, after 21 months on the trail, you're deep tired. You're bone tired. This man deserves some time off. It will be much, much better for him.
Bill Clinton didn't have that opportunity, and it made a difference. He always regretted it when he got there.
COOPER: All right, David Gergen, Paul Begala, we're out of time.
Joe Johns, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
A lot more ahead, in particular, Sarah Palin back in Alaska, but the buzzards are circling with stories about her. We will try to separate fact from fiction and what may happen to the GOP moving forward.
Plus, our breaking news tonight -- after an Election Day rally, stocks have gone in a tailspin. Ali Velshi joins us to tell us the latest and what it all means and what may happen tomorrow -- bad news coming out tomorrow there, too.
And change coming to Washington -- how life is going to be different for Barack Obama's two young daughters.
We will be right back.
COOPER: More now on our breaking news: the Asian markets taking a beating right now, trading already under way there, where it is Friday morning. It is all linked to the rough past two days here on Wall Street.
Erica Hill joins us with more in a 360 news and business bulletin.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, more massive losses for the Dow. Since Election Day, the blue chips have shed 929 points.
So, just what is fueling this sell-off?
Here to break it down for us, CNN senior business correspondent Ali Velshi.
Ali, off more than -- well, nearly, rather, 10 percent in two days...
ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
HILL: ... and two days after the election. Is this at all connected to president-elect Obama?
VELSHI: Only in so far as the election's over.
Let's go back to the beginning of the week and show you what happened. Monday, the market was largely flat. Tuesday, look at that. It was way up, all the way to the end of the day. It wasn't that the market was thinking, uh-oh, the other guy's going to win. It was pretty much baked in that Barack Obama was leading going into Tuesday. Markets were strong.
It was Wednesday that we started to see this plummet, and then, today, all the way down. But take a look at this, this band. I have been talking to you about this on the show. People think I'm crazy. I talk about this band, from 8500 to 9000 on the Dow.
Even with today's drop, we're still in that band, which is an indication that this market is trying to find its bottom. And this is what happens you find a bottom. You just trade up and around, but you end up around that band for a little while, and it starts to go up.
What this is about is the fact that the election's over. We don't get to choose between whose economic policies we like. But we are in the economic doldrums. And this is a recognition of how serious a situation we face -- Erica.
HILL: Well, hopefully, we won't stay in that band for too long. But, while we are there, I know you have really tried to hammer home the point repeatedly that the real issue isn't the movement of the Dow, but it is...
HILL: ... the fact that Americans are losing jobs.
And, tomorrow, that jobs report that is expected is not going to be a good one.
VELSHI: It's going to be disastrous. If we didn't have an election this week, all we would only be thinking about this jobs report.
Now, this is the since the beginning of the year. Every month, we have been losing jobs. We're supposed to gain between 100,000 and 150,000 jobs a month -- 76,000, 83,000, you add it all up, up until September, you have lost 759,000 jobs, until September.
Tomorrow morning, we're going to get the jobs report for October. The estimate is another 200,000 jobs. We're almost at a million jobs gone already this year. That is the thing that is worrying these markets. And, on top of that, Erica, tomorrow morning, we will get earnings from Ford and General Motors. And they are both expected to be disastrous.
Ford -- GM is expected to tell us it is no longer investing money in new development of cars. We will have that all tomorrow.
HILL: Boy, you wonder if it could get much worse.
Ali Velshi, thanks.
And just a note, too, you can get more from Ali. We're going to keep talking about this on our live Webcast coming up in the next break. So, stay with us for that -- Anderson.
COOPER: We're seconds away from that.
Still ahead, though, a stunning turn in California, gay marriage rights taken away by vote. We will show you who made the difference in voting to ban gay marriage. And what happens now to the thousands of couples who already got married?
And growing up in the White House for the new first family-elect, it means raising a family under a microscope. We will look at what the next four years will be like for Sasha and Malia Obama.
And the Chicago native Oprah Winfrey was in the audience, moved to tears by Barack Obama's acceptance speech, but who was that guy she was leaning on? The mystery revealed.
COOPER: New protests today in California. People there saying, "Equal rights." They're protesting over the passage of Proposition 8 banning same-sex marriage. Police hitting a demonstrator there.
More people taken to the streets, angered over having their chance of getting married taken away.
The question tonight: what happens to the thousands of couples who have already gotten married and married legally? Will their marriages now actually be made illegal?
CNN's Chris Lawrence has more in tonight's "Nation Divided" report.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Voters approved California's gay marriage ban on Tuesday, but it's already back in state supreme court. And if it stands, Proposition 8 could undo the "I dos" of thousands of couples. ROBIN TYLER, MARRIED IN JUNE: It would not alter our personal relationship, but we would be very angry that they would deny equality to us as a couple.
LAWRENCE: Robin Tyler and Diane Olson have just filed a lawsuit to overturn Prop 8. They've been together 15 years, and when the court ruled in May that same-sex couples had the right to marry, they did.
TYLER: We need to establish the precedent that a majority cannot take away rights from a minority.
LAWRENCE: They argue that Prop 8 is so far-reaching, it is not just an amendment to California's constitution, but a more serious revision that removes basic rights.
TYLER: This is marriage segregation.
LAWRENCE: But exit polls show most African-Americans did not connect this issue to civil rights. Seventy percent voted to ban same-sex marriage, which disappointed some.
HELECIA ROBINSON, OPPOSES PROP 8: They would brought up in the church to believe that homosexuality is wrong and it's a sin. And I believe that that's the only reason.
LAWRENCE: Supporters say these legal claims ignore the will of California voters.
MARVIN PERKINS, SUPPORTS PROP 8: We're saying let's not redefine marriage. You have the same rights. Let's just leave marriage alone.
LAWRENCE: Marvin Perkins is Mormon, and his church also became an issue in the election. The Latter Day Saints urged members to campaign for the ban.
(on camera) A lot of people weren't happy with that so they took to the streets, blocking off part of Santa Monica Boulevard and chanting "Shame on you" outside the headquarters of the Mormon church here in Los Angeles.
(voice-over) Some estimate Mormons gave more than half of the money raised in support of Prop 8. It passed on election day, but the fight's not over.
Chris Lawrence, CNN, Los Angeles.
COOPER: Let's dig deeper into the political and legal questions of Proposition 8 with Hilary Rosen, CNN political contributor, HuffingtonPost.com's editor-at-large; Jeffrey Toobin, CNN senior legal analyst; and Roland Martin, CNN political analyst and talk radio host.
So Jeff, what happens to these -- some 18,000 couples who have legally gotten married? Do they suddenly have now -- do their marriages get taken away from them?
JEFF TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This is a completely new legal question. Jerry Brown, who's the attorney general of California, said today that he thinks the marriages will remain intact. Basically, he said you can't, after the fact, divorce these people. They didn't ask to be divorced. They engaged in legal marriages, so you can't take it away.
But people on the other side say, look, the constitution of California says marriage is between a man and a woman. People of the same sex simply are not married. Somehow this will wind up in court, and it will go back to the California supreme court, and they will decide it. And anyone who tells you for sure how that's going to be resolved is blowing smoke, because I don't think anyone knows.
COOPER: The court could overturn the results of Proposition 8?
TOOBIN: No. Well, that's a separate issue. I don't think any court is going to overturn Proposition 8 going forward. I don't think any court is going to say you have to allow gay people to get married in California. The will of the voters is clear there, and the constitution is now clear.
The question of what happens to the 16 to 18,000 who did get married, that's what's uncertain.
COOPER: Roland, it's interesting. When you look at the exit results of who voted for Proposition 8, overwhelmingly, I mean, basically whites, Latinos, more or less -- more or less split evenly. African-Americans, particularly African-American women, African- Americans voted 70 percent in support of Proposition 8. Does that surprise you at all?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Nope.
COOPER: It probably surprised a lot of people who, you know, were for Barack Obama elsewhere in the country.
MARTIN: No, it doesn't, because African-Americans look at it as a religious issue. In 2004, we saw exit polling data that showed African-Americans are far more against the issue of gay marriage than whites were, at a higher rate.
Here's the other thing that jumps out. When you talk about gay marriage, looking at it as between marriage between a man and a woman, go to Arkansas where they had a measure about (ph) gay adoption. That measure among African-Americans was around -- exit polling 55 or so who were against that, 45 who were for it. So on the issue of gay adoption, much closer. On gay marriage, much wider.
Second point, many of them voted straight ticket. And so, because of Obama at the top of the ticket, as well, that hurt.
Last point, Obama has been quoted as saying he believes marriage is between a man and a woman. Those who were for this proposition used his own voice at robo-calls, targeting black voters. COOPER: Well, Hilary, that gets my next question. I mean, was this the first test for Barack Obama of his real support for gays and lesbians in America? And if so, did he fail that test? Because you know, there are a lot of folks who say he did nothing, really, to try to convince, in particular, African-Americans of California to vote no on Prop 8.
HILARY ROSEN, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: Well, you know, there was a -- there was this deceptive advertising campaign that Roland referred to came very late in the game, I think, at a point where it was hard for the Obama campaign to actually get involved. They did...
COOPER: When you say hard, do you mean politically hard? Or strategically?
ROSEN: Well, I think both. I think there was just, you know -- they made a calculation that they didn't want the last four days of the campaign for president to be involved with same-sex marriage.
You know, they were worried about Florida. They were worried about Virginia and North Carolina and other states. They just didn't want that to be a national discussion. And, you know, you could argue all day about whether that was the right choice. That was the choice that they made.
I think, you know, the problem was that the other side used it as a really deceptive ad campaign to imply that he was for the proposition. And that ended up swaying some voters. We saw from the exit polls that some people decided, you know, over the last two weeks and decided in favor of it.
COOPER: Roland, do you think if Obama had thrown his weight more behind this, it would have made a difference?
MARTIN: It could have, but he's in a conundrum. Because the reality is, you look at those numbers. That's where African-Americans stand. Look at where the base of his support is. That's a conundrum that many black politicians have been in. They support the various measures in terms of many may very well believe in allowing gays to get married, but they recognize that their constituents absolutely are against that.
And so we saw early on in the Obama campaign where you had some friction between African-Americans and gays when it came to Donna McClerkin (ph) and the gospel contrary (ph). That was a huge issue. Many of the people who funded this campaign said we don't want him involved. Black voters say, "Wait a minute. We support this guy."
ROSEN: I just think it's a mistake to make this be sort of black versus white voters here.
When you look at the actual numbers, 86 or 87 percent of Republicans voted for this, compared to 36 percent of Democrats. The overall numbers are a lot more white people, white Republicans voted against gay rights than African-Americans did. And so I just think that's sort of a particularly not useful blame game. I think that the real issue here is that where do you go from here? You know, young people overwhelmingly opposed taking away rights from gays and lesbians, and older people overwhelmingly supported it. This is a generational issue that has now become sort of this great divide.
And it happens at a time when you can still be fired in 30 states in this country just for being gay -- gay or lesbian. That's really the key point here.
I think that President-elect Obama and the Congress are going to start to focus on those issues where there's a lot more common ground.
COOPER: Where does it, Jeffrey, legally -- where does this go? I mean, there's now this suit being filed saying that it's really a revision to the constitution and therefore not an amendment. Therefore it needs to be overturned.
TOOBIN: I think that lawsuit is a -- very much a long shot. Trying to get this overturned is fundamentally a political question. And this will be back.
There will be a time, and I think Hilary's right that this is a generational thing. Five years from now, gay right supporters, gay marriage supporters may well put an amendment on the ballot themselves. There are always a lot of amendments on the California ballot. And with greater social acceptance, they may win the next electoral battle. But I think ultimately, it's in the political arena, not in the courts where this will be decided.
COOPER: We've got to leave it there. Roland Martin, Hilary Rosen, Jeff Toobin, thanks. Interesting discussion.
MARTIN: Thank you.
COOPER: A war of words between the McCain and Palin camps. The latest on the fighting. Man, have you heard some of these things going about Sarah Palin people in the former -- in the McCain campaign are saying about her? She's back in Alaska and talking. That's next.
Also meet the new first daughters. What awaits Sasha and Malia in the White House? Randi Kaye has a look.
And Barney's bite. The president's cute little dog turns on a reporter. Yikes. It's painful. Maybe the transition's not going so well. Maybe someone doesn't want to leave the White House. We've got the video ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Would it have been easier, though, for your relationship if you knew each other better?
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R-AK), VICE-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We had a great relationship. And I talked to him on the phone, on the airplane when we were in Seattle. And we have nothing but good things to say about each other. And it's not just political. It's sincere admiration that I have for him, and I honor him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Sarah Palin back home talking to our Gary Tuchman at the airport in Anchorage very late last night. Palin also commented on explosive new charges from unnamed senior McCain aides. They describe a bitter campaign marked by infighting and anger. It is a very ugly blame game being played right now, and it is playing out in public in a big way.
CNN's Dana Bash is live -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, Anderson, it -- it absolutely has been going on for quite some time. We've been talking about this, really, for the past month, but since the campaign ended, it's absolutely exploded.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We have come to the end of a long journey.
BASH (voice-over): As John McCain conceded the election, Sarah Palin stood silently behind him, but that's apparently not the way she wanted it. A source close to Palin tells CNN she expected to address the crowd and had prepared two brief speeches, one for either outcome.
But several sources tell CNN, McCain's senior adviser, Steve Schmidt, told Palin no, in part because of built-up anger among some McCain aides who say Palin had become more interested in her own future than McCain's election, something Palin denies.
PALIN: Right now I cannot even imagine running for national office in 2012.
BASH: Still, since election day, behind the scenes battles between some key aides have turned into a public, nasty war. Senior aides now eager to anonymously tell tales about internal hostilities.
For example, two McCain sources tell CNN they were furious about Palin's supposed call with French President Nicolas Sarkozy, which turned out to be a prank by two radio deejays.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I see you as a president one day, you, too.
PALIN: Maybe in eight years.
BASH: A McCain source tells CNN Palin's aides, interested in building her profile, agreed to set up the call without telling McCain headquarters.
A Palin source responded to CNN that it was on her schedule for three days and they were hiding nothing.
But perhaps the most direct blows are about Palin's readiness. One source involved in preparing her for her interviews and debates saying, "She had not paid attention to a single policy debate that's gone on in this country for ten years."
In response, Randy Scheunemann, an aide assigned to Palin called her brilliant, saying she has a photographic memory.
Just yesterday, Palin denied to CNN there's tension, but back in Alaska now says this.
PALIN: I won't comment on anybody's gossip or allegations that are based on anonymous sources. That's kind of a small, evidently bitter type of person who would anonymously charge something foolish like that.
COOPER: Dana, there's a lot of stories going on right now about what she did and she didn't know, a lot of it being spread by unnamed sources. I mean, who are these people spreading it? Do we know?
BASH: Well, we are talking to some of these sources, obviously, when they're anonymous. They talk to us based on that, and we're not the only people that they're talking to.
But, you know, the bottom line is, Anderson, fair or not, some of these senior aides who we're talking to, they say they believe that Palin betrayed them. That when she was picked, she was promised -- she promised to remain loyal and that either she or some of the people around her or both did things that threw them off message and hurt an already ailing campaign.
That is obviously something that Palin staunchly denies. She's an ambitious politician. But when I talked to her yesterday in Arizona, she insisted -- she insisted, Anderson, her only goal was to elect John McCain. And she said she's sorry if she cost him even one vote.
COOPER: All right. Dana Bash, thanks.
Up next, the first daughters, 7-year-old Sasha, 10-year-old Malia, moving into the White House. How are their lives about to change? No doubt in a big way. Let's hope not too big, though.
Plus, Barney's bite. The White House dog causes a scene today. Could he be upset about the transition of power? Well, probably not. But we'll look at the video anyway. Yikes, ouch.
And Oprah Winfrey moved to tears during Obama's acceptance speech. But who was the guy she was leaning on? She said she didn't know who he was. We'll reveal the mystery ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Barack Obama has the votes. His daughters have a growing fan base. Today we learned a woman in Maryland named her baby girl Sasha Malia Ann Taylor after Obama's two girls.
Sasha's 7, Malia's 10. They will soon be moving into the White House. It's certainly been a while since kids called 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue home. So what is life going to be like for them?
360's Randi Kaye takes a look.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Talk about an extreme home makeover. The Obamas are moving into a new house, the White House.
DOUG WEAD, AUTHOR, "ALL THE PRESIDENT'S CHILDREN": One of the negatives of the White House is that it's very much a fish bowl.
KAYE: A fish bowl, presidential historian Doug Wead says, that can feel like a trap for the president's children.
For the most part, Sasha and Malia, 7 and 10, have been shielded from the public. Limited appearances and one interview, which their dad says he regrets.
MALIA OBAMA, DAUGHTER OF BARACK OBAMA: When you come home, you know, you have your big, gigantic bag, and you leave it in the mud room. Sometimes I trip over it.
KAYE: The Obamas' daughters will have around-the-clock Secret Service protection. But not even that can fend off unwanted attention.
WEAD: Something that Sasha will say and something Malia will say and do, and they'll be remembered for the rest of their life.
KAYE: Wead says the Roosevelt kids were famous for dropping water balloons onto foreign dignitaries and unleashing their pet snake in the dining room.
John F. Kennedy Jr. was known for hiding under his father's desk.
The Bush twins, Wead says, will be remembered for underaged drinking.
Thirteen-year-old Noah McCullough interviewed dozens of first kids for his book by the same name.
NOAH MCCULLOUGH, AUTHOR, "FIRST KIDS": If you flunk that huge math test, then it's on the front page of the newspaper the next day.
KAYE: One of the first big decisions: will it be public or private school?
WEAD: If they send their child to a private school, they'll be called elitists and hypocritical for betraying the public school system.
KAYE (on camera): There are advantages to living in the White House, too. It has a bowling alley, a swimming pool and its own movie theater. World leaders and celebrities stop by all the time. And the biggest Easter egg hunt in the country takes place right on the front lawn. What child wouldn't love that?
(voice-over) But like those before them, Sasha and Malia will have to endure their father's critics. And there may be pressure as they grow up to do something as important as their father did.
MCCULLOUGH: John Quincy Adams' kids, most of them went through alcoholism and addiction to different things to kind of soothe the pain of not being able to live up to their father's expectations.
My best advice to the Sasha and Malia Obama is to just have fun, be a kid.
KAYE: Michelle Obama is determined to keep things real for her daughters.
MICHELLE OBAMA, BARACK OBAMA'S WIFE: I'm a mother first, and I'm going to be at parent-teacher conferences. And I'm going to be at the things that they want me to attend. I'm going to -- I'm not going to miss a ballet recital.
KAYE: So much attention when all Sasha and Malia wanted out of this election was a new puppy, promised to them, win or lose.
B. OBAMA: You have earned the new puppy that's coming with us to the White House.
KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
COOPER: I like that they made the deal to get the puppy, win or lose. Very smart thinking.
"The Shot" is next. Jay Leno takes on the CNN hologram. Find out what Jay thinks Wolf Blitzer and the Predator have in common. Yikes.
And President Bush may want a smooth transition, but is Barney, the White House dog, ready to relinquish power? Tried to take a bite out of a reporter today, showing his teeth. The story, coming up.
And at the top of the hour, Barack Obama making his picks. The latest on his chief of staff, his first speech since being elected, and what other moves he's making in the transition to power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. OBAMA: Depression across the land. Saw a nation... (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Meet Mr. Man. That's the nickname Oprah Winfrey gave to him when she thanked him today for letting her cry on his shoulder on election night. His real name, it turned out, is Sam Perry. He's an Obama campaign worker from California, just happened to be standing next to Oprah Winfrey in Grant Park. Tomorrow he's going to appear on "The Oprah Winfrey Show." From there, who knows what lays ahead?
All right. Time now, Erica, for our "Beat 360" winners, our daily challenge to viewers to come up with a caption for a photo better than the one that we could think of.
Tonight's picture, Vice President Dick Cheney applauding President Bush today after the president made some comments on the South Lawn of the White House. Here's the caption from our staff winner, Kirk, his first win: "Just wait until Monday when I sic Barney on them."
(SOUND EFFECT: GROANS)
COOPER: I know.
HILL: I liked it.
COOPER: Let's hope that doesn't happen till -- happen on Monday, because today -- check this out -- Barney took a bite out of John Decker's finger, or tried to. A political reporter for Reuters, when he bent down to pet the White House pooch.
HILL: Drew blood.
COOPER: We have the slowed-down video there. Ouch.
HILL: The fangs on that pooch.
COOPER: It's not the dog's fault, though. You know, the guy just reached down.
HILL: Right. And...
COOPER: You don't do that to a dog.
HILL: ... Mike (ph) over here will tell us...
COOPER: That's right.
HILL: ... he completely approached this dog in the wrong way.
COOPER: You've got to let the dog smell you first.
HILL: With a closed hand.
COOPER: John, the reporter, is now sporting a bandage and taking antibiotics for the bite. Wow, I shouldn't laugh.
HILL: It's very serious.
COOPER: Yes, it is.
All right. Now back to our "Beat 360" photo. So here's our viewer winner, Joel from Fountain Valley, California. His caption: "Cheney, we tricked the Democrats into actually wanting this job."
(SOUND EFFECT: DRUM BEAT)
HILL: Very clever.
COOPER: Joel, your "Beat 360" T-shirt's on the way. Congratulations.
You can check out all the entries, AC360.com. The winner gets that fancy-shmancy T-shirt. No expense spared on that. Again, AC360.com is the site.
HILL: We should sell them for the holidays, like hot cakes.
COOPER: Stocking stuffers.
HILL: Thanks, Larry.
COOPER: Let's check out tonight's "Shot." It's more fun with the CNN hologram. This time Jay Leno took aim at Wolf Blitzer and our cutting-edge technology. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, HOST, NBC'S "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": How many saw the hologram? Did you see it? Oh, yes. You know, it was a great idea. Apparently, they still haven't worked out all of the kinks. I guess they had some sort of intergalactic glitch earlier in the day. Yes, show what happened when they did the hologram the first time.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Right now I want you to watch what we're about to do, because you've never seen anything like this on television.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was cool. Monster from the "Predator" film, which of course, I rank up with "Citizen Kane" and "Casablanca."
HILL: Absolutely, absolutely. My friend, Jason Odell (ph), who helped create the hologram -- I promised him he could have a shout-out -- was talking to me today. There was a little controversy that we call it a hologram. A lot of people say it's a topogram.
COOPER: Does anyone really care?
HILL: I'm not smart enough to understand the difference.
COOPER: I guess -- like, when I was looking at it, you know, I did Will.i.am and the hologram. I didn't actually see him. I saw him on a monitor. There was just a space on the floor.
HILL: Is that the difference?
COOPER: I don't know. I guess in the hologram, you would actually see him materialize.
HILL: How about it's cool? Let's leave it at that, people.
COOPER: I think it's pretty cool. All right.
Coming up at the top of the hour, on day two, post election, President-elect Obama making his first hire, Rahm Emmanuel. Some are alarmed by the choice, some conservatives are. Others are praising him.
Plus the other names that are being floated for plum jobs in the White House. We'll look at that.
And breaking news, the latest in the markets as they react to another ugly day on Wall Street. Stay tuned. More 360.