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Nancy Grace

Van Der Sloot Thailand Tape Released

Aired November 11, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the sudden disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, missing off her high school senior trip, Aruba. Aruban police claim they can`t or won`t make a case against Van Der Sloot in the disappearance of Holloway, even after a Dutch crime reporter takes months of high-tech secret surveillance proving what happened the night the Alabama beauty vanished. Aruban courts let Van Der Sloot, the judge`s son, walk free.
But tonight, we have obtained the video and audiotape that may land judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot behind bars. That`s right, judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot busted, preying on unsuspecting young women, attempting to lure them into the sex trade between Thailand and his birth place, the Netherlands, Van Der Sloot reported to make up to $13,000 per female recruit. And now that Van Der Sloot is busted again, Aruban prosecutors say they`re back on the Holloway case, now deciding whether to re-arrest Van Der Sloot. But tonight, will Van Der Sloot, reportedly in hiding, finally land where he belong, behind bars? Somebody tell me how`s Daddy going to get him out of this one?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I like dancing.

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: And he offering you $15,000 to dance. And I understand you tell me that you have school you have to finish. I understand. And you can tell me, OK, after your school, will we talk about it again?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. And how long I have to dance for, one hour, two hours?

VAN DER SLOOT: No, like, 10 hour a day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh! That`s too much!

VAN DER SLOOT: I don`t know.

(CROSSTALK)

VAN DER SLOOT: From 5:00 in the afternoon to 5:00 in the morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That a lot!

VAN DER SLOOT: That`s a lot, yes, I know, but it`s not dance the whole time. You take break. You talk to the guys, you know, make them feel good, give them drink.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Yes, he`s the man.

And tonight, the mystery surrounding a beautiful young mom of two vanishing into thin air straight out America`s heartland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searches resumed today in the case of missing 27- year-old mother of two Alisha Sidie. According to reports, Sidie left her home between 9:00 and 10:00 PM Friday night after an argument with her ex- husband. Over 150 volunteers are assisting in the search effort, with helicopters, canines and dive teams all scouring the area for the young mom. Alisha`s sister, Tracy, says there`s no way that Alisha would have left without her 2-year-old twin boys at her side. Police say there`s no evidence of foul play and will continue to search for Alisha, who was last seen wearing a long-sleeved white shirt and blue scrub pants.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is very unusual for her. I`ve known Alisha since she was a little baby. She`s like a sister to me. She`s like my daughter. She is -- this is very unusual for her, very unusual. She would never do this. Never.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway. We have obtained a video and audiotape that may land judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot behind bars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For me -- $15,000 is nothing for me.

VAN DER SLOOT: OK, $15,000 is nothing for you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. No. Not much.

VAN DER SLOOT: $15,000 is nothing for her.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... but when we do overtime, yes, maybe we can do that, like (INAUDIBLE)

VAN DER SLOOT: OK, but look what you have to do for that. From here, you have to shake your ass. That`s all you have to do. If I could shake my ass for $15,000, I would shake my ass for $15,000.

(LAUGHTER)

VAN DER SLOOT: Today, all they want is just to see you, so you show them how beautiful you are...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... because you understand we have a club in Holland.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m interested to go abroad, but you know I cannot because I make the decision that I cannot leave my school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

VAN DER SLOOT: OK. Like, listen, baby, I`m from Holland and they from Holland also. And I go to the Holland embassy already and I look and for to get the paper to give to you right away. That`s not a problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

VAN DER SLOOT: So for -- go for, like, three months or something is very easy. It`s very easy. But for to get work permit, like, one year or two years, is more hard. And Holland very, very different than Bangkok. Holland is also very nice and very peaceful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think you can get a lot of lady to go over there if you go to the government for looking people to find a job.

VAN DER SLOOT: The important thing is they want to do it good also. You don`t want to do it like paperwork good and that`s important for them also for the name and cannot do it like wrong. Just like no, no, no, they want to do it good. Real job is good also.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Is a real job even for the nice club.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Yes, he is the big man. That`s judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot, the prime suspect in the disappearance of Alabama honor grad Natalee Holloway. He managed to escape jail in her death, but now he`s busted again, this time trying to lure college students into the European sex trade. You just saw the videotape.

Out to Jossy Mansur, the owner and managing director of "Diario" magazine. Jossy, will there be charges?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": I think they have to introduce charges against him because the evidence is too much. I mean, it`s been recorded. I mean, we have all seen what was going on, how he tried to lure these girls, how he lied to them that it was going to be a modeling job, photo sessions, et cetera. But all the time, he had in mind a work time of 10 hours (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: And in fact, he`s caught on videotape accepting payment, a down payment on luring young college co-eds into the sex trade, telling them they`d be models and ending up in a brothel in the Netherlands. That`s what Joran Van Der Sloot has been doing. In case you`ve been wondering whatever happened to Joran Van Der Sloot, now we know.

With -- reporter from WBMA, Deborah Pugatch -- what can you tell us, Deborah?

DEBORAH PUGATCH, WBMA PRODUCER: Well, what we do know is the first footage in the United States aired this morning. When it aired Sunday in the Netherlands, Thai authorities said, I want a transcript, to see if they had a case against Joran Van Der Sloot.

GRACE: Oh, blah, blah, Deborah! The said the same thing the last time Joran Van Der Sloot was caught on videotape talking about Natalee Holloway`s death. And what did they do? Let it slip through their fingers. OK, maybe the second bite of the apple will be different.

Take a look at Joran Van Der Sloot caught on videotape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAN DER SLOOT: Today, all they want is just to see you, so you show them how beautiful you are...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... because you understand we have a club in Holland.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m interested to go abroad, but you know I cannot because I make the decision that I cannot leave my school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

VAN DER SLOOT: OK. Like, listen, baby, I`m from Holland and they from Holland also. And I go to the Holland embassy already and I look and for to get the paper to give to you right away. That`s not a problem.

OK. Like, listen, I from Holland and they from Holland also. I go to the Holland embassy already. I look for them to give the paper they give to you right away. That`s not a problem.

To go for, like, three months or something is very easy. Very easy. For one year or two year is more hard. And Holland very, very different than Bangkok. Holland also very nice, very peaceful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think you can get a lot of lady to go over there if the government for looking people for a job.

VAN DER SLOOT: The important thing is they want to do it good also. You don`t want to do it like paperwork good and that`s important for them also for the name and cannot do it like wrong. Just like no, no, no, they want to do it good. Is real job.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is real job even for the nice club.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: He is so busted! Yes, the Netherlands very nice, very peaceful -- for hookers! He didn`t finish the sentence. We are taking your calls live.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Ray Giudice, defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Michael Mazzariello, defense attorney and host of "Closing Arguments" on WGNY, and a special guest joining us tonight, international law and criminal defense attorney Michael Griffith. He is based in New York, travels all over the world handling cases.

Michael Griffith, if it were anywhere but Thailand or Aruba, I would say he`s busted. What about you?

MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY: Nancy, first, hi. It`s nice to see you. Nancy, I hate to burst everybody`s balloon. I`m a member of the criminal law committee of the international bar. I`m a member...

GRACE: "Burst your bubble." Go ahead.

GRIFFITH: All right. I`ve got the transcript here. There`s nothing in the transcripts that have been said except that these girls were going to go for dancing. Maybe that`s not true, but that`s what the tapes show. This Mr. De Vries really dropped the ball. If he wanted to get something out of this...

GRACE: Well, hold on. Hold on.

GRIFFITH: ... they should have -- Nancy, they should have...

GRACE: That`s a good point, Michael. That`s all we`ve heard so far. But hold on. Out to Peter Schouten, spokesperson for De Vries. He`s joining us from the Netherlands. Peter, isn`t it true that he is caught on tape going over the scheme where he represents to the young girls it`s a modeling job, but where he`s actually talking about it being prostitution?

PETER SCHOUTEN, SPOKESMAN FOR PETER DE VRIES: Yes. That is exactly correct, Nancy. And that is, of course, not the only thing. Joran also took the initiative to basically employ this kind of operation and he contacted people to work out a network for him in the Netherlands that he could trade the girls. So I disagree with the attorney there. There is a lot done (ph) to basically make this a criminal matter.

GRACE: So long story short -- with me is spokesperson for De Vries, Peter Schouten. Peter, he`s on tape talking about the young girls being prostitutes in the Netherlands. Yes, no.

SCHOUTEN: Yes. Correct. He is basically doing human trafficking to deliver girls to whorehouses, brothels and window (ph) prostitution.

GRACE: With me tonight exclusively joining us, Dave Holloway, Natalee Holloway`s father. Dave, thank you for being with us. We spoke briefly last night. Now that you`ve had time to digest all of this, now that you`ve seen the tapes yourself, what do you think?

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: Thank you for having me, Nancy. It`s really unbelievable. But you know, talking to the experts in the past about his behavior, they pegged him right on it. They said he`d strike again in some form or other fashion, and he`s done that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was offering them a job as models in Holland.

VAN DER SLOOT: Look what you have to do for that. From here you have to shake your ass. That`s all you have to do. If I could shake my ass for $15,000, I would shake my ass for $15,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in truth, he was trying to coax them into prostitution -- in other words, into the sex industries in Holland.

HOLLOWAY: It`s absolutely disgusting that this guy is involved in something like this. I hope the Thailand police do their job and get this guy. He needs to be taken off the streets.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For me, $15,000 is nothing for me.

VAN DER SLOOT: OK, $15,000 is nothing for you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no. Not much.

VAN DER SLOOT: $15,000. Is nothing for her. $15,000 is nothing.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: The women you see, judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot snugged up in a hotel room with are college students there in Thailand. According to Peter De Vries, investigative reporter who`s responsible for this undercover video, he is trying to talk them into going to the Netherlands, his birth place, to be dancers and models. Translation, hookers.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Leah in Virginia. Hi, Leah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. The children are beautiful. I was wondering what charges could he possibly be facing?

GRACE: Back to the lawyers. Joining us, international law and criminal defense attorney Michael Griffith, veteran trial lawyer Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta, Michael Mazzariello out of New York.

Ray, hit me. What could he be facing?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I want to switch the venue from Thailand to Holland. I think there`s two problems for this gentleman. One is, is he the front man for a group of clubs or organizations and he`s been sent over to bring these girls back, so there`s a big conspiracy? And secondly, is he attempting to defraud the Dutch immigration authorities? When you go to Europe, they want to know why you`re there, how long you`re going to stay, and if you`re working, it has to be for a legal and moral purpose.

GRACE: Ruh-roh! What about it, Mazzariello? He`s right about immigration, at least. I guess the feds aren`t going to pooh-pooh this.

MICHAEL MAZZARIELLO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s why I like Ray. He`s right on the money, Nancy. Throw in a couple of, you know, trafficking charges in there, get the tax people involved, and he could have real problems in Holland.

GRACE: Tax people? You think this guy`s ever held down a job? Are you kidding me?

MAZZARIELLO: Well, Nancy, that`s -- at least it`s what they could get the Thai government to get to hold him and to inquire further. I mean, just hold the guy and try to interrogate him.

GRACE: Michael?

GRIFFITH: Nancy, there`s been no crime committed here because, number one...

GRACE: He`s soliciting for prostitution!

GRIFFITH: Nancy, Nancy...

MAZZARIELLO: Not on tape.

GRIFFITH: Nancy, listen to Mike. Right now, there`s nothing on tape saying anything about prostitution.

GRACE: You`re making my jaw hurt.

GRIFFITH: No, just listen to me. This is what I do.

GRACE: Oh!

GRIFFITH: The second thing is, if they would have waited to have the false papers made out, help to pay for the airline tickets, bring the girls to Holland and then put them in prostitution -- by the way, where it`s legal there -- but then put them in...

GRACE: And wait until the girls get their first $20?

(CROSSTALK)

GRIFFITH: That`s how you make the sting. Nancy, that`s how you make the sting. De Vries, to get his 15 minutes of fame, messed things up. He jumped the gun.

GRACE: So you won`t be happy until a college student actually turns her first trick. Do I have that right, Griffith?

GRIFFITH: No. No. I said...

GRACE: Yes, I do.

GRIFFITH: ... you got to -- you have to have false papers, put them on the plane, send them to Holland...

GRACE: Listen...

GRIFFITH: ... and then you can make the arrest.

GRACE: Let me just break it down. To Mike Brooks. You know the deal, Brooks -- former fed with the FBI. Mike, when an undercover cop is doing a sting, a vice sting, they don`t actually do the deed. You go solicit a hooker, she gets in the car, says, Yes, I`ll turn a trick for X amount of money. Boom. That`s when the sting goes down, right there.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Usually, Nancy, to make a prostitution case, you need a place, a price and an act. Now, in this particular one, we`re talking, you know, college students that are, you know, allegedly college students...

GRACE: They`re college students.

BROOKS: Yes. OK. And there`s a the lot of college students working their way through school in Las Vegas also, Nancy.

GRACE: You`re right. Blame the victim. Go ahead.

BROOKS: No, I`m telling you. You know, I -- look, if you look at prostitution rings...

GRACE: Make your point, please. Please. Point.

BROOKS: Look. Bangkok, do you think that they really care? Because...

GRACE: No.

BROOKS: ... -do they want any -- do they want any attention into the sex industry in their country? Absolutely not. I think Raymond is absolutely right. You got to go back on the Dutch end of things and work it from there.

GRACE: They don`t care, either. The Netherlands don`t care.

BROOKS: Well, yes, the Dutch authorities screwed the Holloway investigation up from the very beginning, but...

GRACE: Yes, I mean, Dave Holloway, he`s got a point. With me exclusively tonight is Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway. Yes, he`s caught on tape again, but he`s been caught on tape before, describing Natalee`s death. Nothing happened. So we really think the Netherlands care about planning prostitution? Dave Holloway?

HOLLOWAY: Oh, I`m sorry?

GRACE: Go ahead, dear.

HOLLOWAY: You know, Nancy, I really don`t think that -- in my opinion, that they`ll probably do anything with this. It`s my hope and faith, and you know, just prayer that they will do something, but I`ve been down this road...

GRACE: How much more evidence do we have to hand them on a silver platter before they finally do something, Dave Holloway?

HOLLOWAY: You know, they`ve been handed the confession on a silver platter and they didn`t do anything. And that`s why I think in this case, you know, maybe I`m being a little bit negative on it, but...

GRACE: Well, I`m sure you don`t want to...

HOLLOWAY: ... you know, I know that...

GRACE: ... get your hopes up and then be dashed.

HOLLOWAY: I don`t want to get my hopes up high. You know, I think...

GRACE: Speaking of that tape, Dave...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Go ahead. I`m sorry.

HOLLOWAY: I think they could probably charge him for preparation of human trafficking. I think they`ve probably got a good case there because I`ve seen some of the e-mail transmissions between he and his friend where they talk about it.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Linda in Texas. Hi, Linda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I am calling -- first every all, Mr. Holloway, I would like to apologize for the loss of your daughter. And I hope we can somehow or another bring closure soon. My question is, since we`ve never actually found Natalee`s body, is it possible that the word could spread in Thailand, that maybe she might be there or maybe some of the girls that Joran Van Der Sloot has talked to has maybe mentioned her name and her whereabouts?

GRACE: What about that, too, Jossy Mansur, managing director and owner of "Diario" magazine? What about it, Jossy?

MANSUR: I think that`s very highly unlikely, Nancy. I don`t think that -- according to all the evidence we`ve seen from the beginning of this case, I don`t think she`s alive. I`m sorry to say that. I wish she were. But I think that in view of that and confirming it in the first program of De Vries, in Joran`s own voice, we heard him say that he was with her when she died.

GRACE: Well, actually, you know what? I`ve got that with me right now. Let`s roll that, Jossy. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): She just lying still?

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Still. Still. She`s not doing anything. He says, What happened? I said, I don`t know either, man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Did you try to resuscitate her?

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Of course. I tried everything, man. I tried to shake her. I was shaking the bitch. I was, like -- like, What`s wrong with you, man? I almost wanted to cry. What (DELETED) happened to me. I said to him, This is impossible.

He took the body. He went far out and he threw her over the side. Then he came back and he docked his boat there. And he came by my house for a bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): At night?

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Yes. Then we talked for a bit and he says to me, You know, it`s all good. She`s going to be missing. They`re going to search, but they`re not going to know a thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is from ABC`s "20/20." It`s from Peter De Vries`s hidden camera interview of Joran Van Der Sloot describing what happened to Natalee Holloway the night she went missing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: You are seeing secretly recorded video of Joran Van Der Sloot, the judge`s son, the prime suspect in the death and disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway. He is busted again.

Out to Peter Schouten, spokesperson for Peter De Vries. Peter, how was this set up?

SCHOUTEN: Well, Joran has a poker buddy, an on-line poker buddy, which he boasted a lot to after he moved to Thailand when we exposed him the first time, about how he was living like a king there. And then slowly, he started to ask this poker buddy if he could help him in setting up a network in the Netherlands for trafficking girls.

Now, what Joran didn`t know was that this buddy was actually a certified security guard. So of course, his moral standards were totally not the same like Joran`s. And he choose to contact Peter De Vries and tell him what was perspiring (SIC). So then we were getting involved in the case and decided to set up a sting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For me $15,000 is nothing for me.

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: OK. $15,000 is nothing for you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no. Not much.

VAN DER SLOOT: $15,000 is nothing for her. $15,000 is nothing for her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But when we do overtime, yes, maybe we can do that, right, at $15,000.

VAN DER SLOOT: OK. But look what you have to do for that. From here you have to shake your ass. That`s all you have to do. If I could shake my ass for $15,000, I shake my ass for $15,000.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I like dancing.

VAN DER SLOOT: And he offering you 15,000 baht to dance. And I understand you tell me that you have school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

VAN DER SLOOT: You have to finish. I understand. And you can tell me OK, after your school we talk about again?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

VAN DER SLOOT: But.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And how long I have to dance for? One hour, two hour?

VAN DER SLOOT: No. Like 10 hour a day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s too much.

VAN DER SLOOT: No, no, no. I don`t know. I don`t know.

(CROSSTALK)

VAN DER SLOOT: From five to ten. Yes, from 5:00 in the afternoon to 5:00 in the morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, that`s a lot.

VAN DER SLOOT: That`s a lot, yes, I know. But it`s not dance the whole time. You take break. You talk to the guys, you know, make them feel good. Give them drink.

Today all they want is to see you is to show them how beautiful you are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you understand we have a club in Holland.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m interested to go abroad but, you know, I know I cannot because I make the decision I cannot leave my school.

VAN DER SLOOT: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

VAN DER SLOOT: OK, like, listen, baby, I`m from Holland. And they`re from Holland also. And I go to Holland embassy already.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

VAN DER SLOOT: And I look and for to get the paper to give to you right away. That`s not a problem. So for go for like three month or something is very easy. But for to get like work permit like one year or two year is more hard. And Holland, very, very different than Bangkok. Holland also very nice and very peaceful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think you can get a lot of lady to go over there if you go to the government for looking people to find a job.

VAN DER SLOOT: Well, the important thing is you want to do it then they want to do it good also. Also you don`t want to do it like paperwork good and everything in order. Everything good. That`s important for them also for the name and cannot do like wrong, just like no, no, no, they want to do it good. Is real job is good also.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Is real job even for the nice club.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: And when you hear him offering, Joran Van Der Sloot, the judge`s son, the prime suspect in the death of Natalee Holloway, talking about $15,000. It`s not $15,000, it`s 15,000 baht which equals $428 for a month of prostitution. Yes, that`s a real deal.

We are taking your calls live.

To Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health, joining us from Johns Hopkins -- Dr. Makary, thank you for being with us. It`s now over three years since Natalee went missing.

What is the likelihood, if her remains are found now, that the Aruba authorities are interested in the case after seeing this? What would you expect to find, assume it`s under water?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, of course, the likelihood is very low. You know an entire merit case will rest on the forensic evidence from a body because it`s a gold mine of evidence.

And in this case they`ve searched the ocean. Salt is a natural detergent. The currents of the ocean floor are strong and accelerate decomposition. So it is highly unlikely that anything is going to come out of this.

You know crimes at sea are difficult for this reason. And you do not want to get on a boat with anybody that you don`t trust fully.

GRACE: To Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist joining us in New York -- Dr. Saunders, you know, he came this close to an arrest in a murder case. Why didn`t he just lay low and mind his own business? What happened to going to college and going straight?

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, this guy is a predator and he`s obviously a parasite. He dropped out of college because he wants the easy way. Joran Van Der Sloot really looks like a sociopath, Nancy, no remorse, no empathy, thinks he is a lot smarter than he really is.

The only good news so far is if he doesn`t get caught this time he will continue doing it and he will get caught.

GRACE: Well, I guess you can view that as good news that he will continue to prey on other people and maybe get caught. And then there`s the big maybe whether authorities in Netherlands will do anything about it.

I want to go back to Peter Schouten, spokesperson for Peter De Vries.

Peter, it`s my understanding that he cannot be found. He`s gone in hiding under the name of Murphy Jenkins and maybe on an island off the Thai, Ko Samui. What do you know?

PETER SCHOUTEN, SPOKESMAN FOR PETER DE VRIES, EXECUTED STING OPERATION: Yes, it`s correct. He ran off and according to the rumors, he took a plane to Ko Samui together with his accomplice. So at this moment it`s difficult to find him.

We have people posting outside the house after Peter De Vries made this phone call to Joran. But suddenly (INAUDIBLE) at the house and he was (INAUDIBLE) in driving away and just went into hiding.

GRACE: There is Van Der Sloot at the airport believed to be traveling under the name, the pseudonym, Murphy Jenkins, last known to be boarding on a plane to Ko Samui.

Let`s see that map again.

Out to the line, Beth in Florida. Hi, Beth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy. Love your show.

GRACE: Bless you. Thank you for calling in. What is your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One, who is funding this guy? I mean who is actually paying for him?

GRACE: Excellent question.

Jossy Mansur with "Diario" magazine, is daddy still footing the bill, mommy and daddy?

JOSSY MANSUR, OWNER AND MANAGING DIRECTOR, "DIARIO": I think probably, because I -- I don`t see any other source of income that he has. He never worked in his life.

GRACE: What happened to school?

MANSUR: Well, I don`t know, but he`s not going to school anymore. He disappeared from Holland. And suddenly he is living in Thailand and now he disappears again. So I don`t know what his interest in school is.

GRACE: To Donny in South Carolina, hi, Donny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love your show and thank you so much for sharing the pictures of your adorable babies with us every week.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Question is, if he is charged with human trafficking, what is the most amount of time he can get in jail? And also, can he be charged for evading the police since he is hiding under a new alias now?

GRACE: OK. Michael Griffith, try to answer that objectively. Go ahead.

NANCY GRIFFITH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I don`t know what the statute is in Holland, but if this were done correctly, since only maybe 11 people in Thailand know where Aruba is, and if they could have got this man and done this sting in the Netherlands, then they could have used the charges in the Netherlands to possibly make him cooperate with what happened in Aruba. But they didn`t do that. Mr. De Vries totally messed up things here.

GRACE: If it weren`t for De Vries we wouldn`t even have the knowledge that this is happening. What is with you and De Vries? You`ve never even met him.

GRIFFITH: He didn`t do this properly. He should have done this properly with the police.

GRACE: Yes, the police should have done it. The police should have done it. But guess what, they`re twiddling their thumbs. No, they`re sitting on their thumbs. And I won`t describe that any further.

Ray Giudice, what about it? What could he face?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, certainly not running from law enforcement. There`s no charges.

GRACE: How do you know? He`s in hiding.

GIUDICE: Somebody should issue a warrant, put it through Interpol and let him get picked up. That`s how it happens. So until there`s a warrant, Nancy, or an investigation he`s not running from any.

GRACE: He`s not running. You`re absolutely correct.

Michael Mazzariello, agree or disagree?

MICHAEL MAZZARIELLO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, HOST OF "CLOSING: Absolutely agree.

GRACE: Back to the lines, Julie in Indiana. Hi, Julie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You look great.

GRACE: Thank you, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is they`ve found Natalee. Have they ever thought about looking for her in a brothel?

GRACE: I want to go back to Natalee`s dad with us exclusively tonight, Dave Holloway. That theory had been floated at the beginning. What do you make of it?

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: Yes, it was. We had all kinds of theories in the very beginning. But as the investigation continued and this first Peter De Vries tape pretty much summarized what happened to Natalee.

I had a long in-depth conversation with Patrick, the person who was with Joran for six or seven months. And there`s a lot of things that he told me that was not on the videotape. And he assured me that Joran told him on many occasions what happened.

GRACE: What, what, what did he tell you?

HOLLOWAY: Well, he just basically said what was on the tape was the truth and that was confirmed by three other experts.

GRACE: Well, speaking of the tape, Dave, here it is.

Everybody, we are showing you the tape he`s talking about from ABC`s "20/20."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK VAN DER EEM (through translator): How were you so sure she was dead, Joran? You can`t, you know, people can also go into coma.

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, I wasn`t sure about that but it really scared me to death.

VAN DER EEM: No, but I understand that. I definitely understand that, that you were scared. She really brought it to herself.

VAN DER SLOOT: No, no. But it didn`t look good.

VAN DER EEM: How didn`t it look good then?

VAN DER SLOOT: Just, you know, she had been shaking and stuff.

VAN DER EEM: What, really shaking?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes. I don`t know. Yes. Pretty much.

VAN DER EEM: I`m asking you. How were you so (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sure she was dead, man?

VAN DER SLOOT: I wasn`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That was from "20/20" from ABC. Joran Van Der Sloot seemingly concerned about his own fate as opposed to that of American teen Natalee Holloway.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I like dancing.

VAN DER SLOOT: And he offering you 15,000 baht to dance. And I understand you tell me that you have school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

VAN DER SLOOT: You have to finish. I understand. And you can tell me OK, after your school we talk about again?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

VAN DER SLOOT: But.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And how long I have to dance for? One hour, two hour?

VAN DER SLOOT: No. Like 10 hour a day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s too much.

VAN DER SLOOT: No, no, no. I don`t know. I don`t know.

(CROSSTALK)

VAN DER SLOOT: From five to ten. Yes, from 5:00 in the afternoon to 5:00 in the morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, that`s a lot.

VAN DER SLOOT: That`s a lot, yes, I know. But it`s not dance the whole time. You take break. You talk to the guys, you know, make them feel good. Give them drink.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We`re about to take you to America`s heartland and a missing mom of two. But very quickly, back to Peter Schouten.

Peter, have the authorities in the Netherlands displayed the least bit interest in prosecuting Van Der Sloot?

SCHOUTEN: Well, they did and also in Thailand. The ambassador immediately asked for the tapes and translated them. Where Michael is wrong is that masterminding and flipping a crime like this is a criminal offense which can be prosecuted in both Thailand and the Netherlands.

GRACE: And.

SCHOUTEN: Joran produced the girls and he took the money as advance payment. And those are criminal (INAUDIBLE) and offenses.

GRACE: Absolutely. And to Deborah Pugatch of WBMA -- Deborah, what can you tell me about Ko Samui and the possibility he`s traveling under the name Murphy Jenkins?

DEBORAH PUGATCH, PRODUCER, CNN AFFILIATE WBMA, COVERING STORY: I did that -- tonight is the first time that I`ve actually heard about him traveling under an alias. I had not heard anything about that. All we know.

GRACE: What do you know about that island?

PUGATCH: I do not know much of anything about that Thai island either. This is the first time that I have heard that he has gone there or has been traveling under an alias.

GRACE: Peter, has it been confirmed that he is there at Ko Samui?

SCHOUTEN: No. It has not been not confirmed. It is a rumor.

GRACE: In the Dutch reports.

Everyone, we are staying on top of it. Joran Van Der Sloot may be finally be looking at the inside of a jail cell.

Quickly, shifting gears to a missing mom. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Nearly 100 volunteers combed the woods and waters of Hatfield, Wisconsin, searching for 27-year-old Alicia Sidie. She was sighted leaving her home Friday night allegedly after a fight with her husband.

She was alone and on foot. No one has seen or heard from her since. Canine has tracked her scent near the railroad tracks and (INAUDIBLE) in the southeast portion of town. But divers and searchers have come up empty handed.

Until Alicia is found, her family will hold on to hope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We contacted Alicia Sidie`s husband about her disappearance. And he seemed to be angry on the telephone and would not come on air to answer questions.

To Sheriff Duane Waldera, with the Jackson County Sheriff`s Department joining us, Black River Falls, Wisconsin -- Sheriff, thank you for being with us.

Sheriff, was there an argument with the husband just before she disappeared?

SHERIFF DUANE WALDERA, PIO, JACKSON COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPT. ON THE CASE: Yes, there was.

GRACE: What was it over, Sheriff?

WALDERA: Apparently there is some problems in the past and they are talking about childcare issues. The specifics on the argument aren`t really -- we are trying to track down based on what we got from Doug right now. That`s all the information we have to work off of so.

GRACE: Back to Sheriff Duane Waldera, joining us from Jackson County Sheriff`s Department. Sheriff, what were the circumstances surrounding her disappearance? When did it go down?

WALDERA: Well, from what we have right now is that the initial argument or last time Alicia was seen was received by the husband Doug. And it was on November 7th, right around 9:00 p.m., between 9:00 and 10:00 p.m. we did not receive a report of a missing person until November 8th in the evening hours, around 6:00.

GRACE: 24 hours later?

WALDERA: Yes.

GRACE: OK. That doesn`t look good.

Out to Dan O`Donnell, reporter with 620 WTMJ.

Dan, thank you for being with us. Fill me in. What happened?

DAN O`DONNELL, REPORTER, 620 WTMJ COVERING STORY: Well, at about 9:00, Alicia came home from work. At some point shortly thereafter she got in an argument with her estranged and reconciled husband Doug.

And then according to the sheriff`s department, one of Alicia`s friends received a voice mail at about 9:19 and a local TV station is reporting that she sounded panicked and asked for help. And as the sheriff said, about 21 hours later at 6:00 p.m. on Saturday, her husband Doug first reported her missing.

GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary with Johns Hopkins -- Doctor, if Alicia was somehow trapped outside in the Wisconsin cold, how long could she last?

MAKARY: Well, we know she was wearing a long-sleeved shirt and scrub- like pants, like the type worn in hospitals. After 24 to 48 hours, severe hypothermia will set in. My concern is you lose your orientation and just feel tired and you don`t know your way home.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Ray Giudice, Michael Mazzariello.

Michael, I find it very unusual that the husband isn`t going all over the media begging for help finding his wife.

MAZZARIELLO: But I understand he`s looking for her and doing what he has to do at -- at the location, Nancy.

GRACE: Ray, would you address my question?

GIUDICE: Well, Nancy, the sheriff was just on and he didn`t give one scintilla of evidence that this gentleman is a suspect nor.

GRACE: That`s not why I asked you.

GIUDICE: Why should he do anything more? He`s cooperating with law enforcement. He doesn`t need to come on this show.

GRACE: You know what? You don`t have to do anything, right?

GIUDICE: He needs to cooperate with law enforcement.

GRACE: You`re right.

Dr. Patricia Saunders, you`re right. You can sit back on a recliner and eat popcorn and watch TV if you want to. But if somebody in my family were missing I would use every possible outlet to find them.

I mean we just saw Dave Holloway. You remember what they went through trying to find Natalee?

SAUNDERS: I sure do. This -- he waited 24 hours to report her. And if she did call someone because she was panicked and asked for help I think it`s interesting she called a friend and not her ex-husband.

GRACE: He is not a suspect.

Doctor -- excuse me, I`ve already gone to Dr. Makary.

I want to go to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Weigh in, Mike.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: My questions are of the sheriff. What was the activity on her cell phone? Where were the different cell towers when that call was made? Was there any activity on her ATM? Was there a search warrant conducted? Where is the -- her computer taken? Who was she contacting 24 hours up to this? What was he doing also?

These are all questions that I would have and I`m sure the sheriff is working on that.

GRACE: The tip line 715-284-5357. 284-5357.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Tonight, to all of you who serve and served our country, on Veterans Day, we honor you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The head stones are lined over these hallowed hills behind us, bear witness to the price our country has paid for our freedoms. They are testimony to the willingness to struggle and sacrifice for those freedoms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By heroic devotion of love of country, and sacrifice by the men and women who have served in the Armed Forces of the United States of America.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I learned through my injuries early on that we`re not the sum of our parts, right? That I lost an arm and a leg but -- and a job, but that I gained a sense of self.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Private First Class Corey Hicks, 22, Glendale, Arizona, killed Iraq. Loved animals, rodeo, Twizzlers, dreamed of restoring his truck after Iraq. Leaves behind parents, Dawn and Russell, stepdad Tim, brothers, two sisters.

Corey Hicks, American hero.

Thank you to all of our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight, a special good night from friends of the show, Susan, 12- year-old Eddie, he`s got a future on-air, and Martha Heller, the mother of my best friend from law school. She sent us chocolate chip cookies three straight years.

After helping her son make his dream come true with law school, she`s making her dream come true. Back to school and not just school. She is studying at Harvard. Living proof that dreams do come true.

I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END