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Nancy Grace
Caylee Search Divers Find Bag With Toys, Bones
Aired November 13, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen 21 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell. In the last hours, police, FBI swarm a local park after a dive team announces the discovery of tiny bones and a bag of toys discarded in a nearby river, the dive team spending hours combing murky alligator- infested waters. Grandparents George and Cindy Anthony immediately insist it was all planted there at the bottom of the Econ River. When tot mom sees the coverage on TV from behind bars, she registers no emotion whatsoever, calmly going back to her private cell. What does that mean?
Mom Casey still refusing to cooperate with police, but taking the time to order off a menu of high-end snacks like crab meat, shrimp cocktail, make-up, shoes, lingerie, hair and skin products, all from her private jail cell, tot mom lounging, sleeping, reading, snacking, doing nothing to help find Caylee. And another bombshell. Has there been another alleged sighting of Caylee? Tonight, where is Caylee?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S MOTHER: Caylee went to Blanchard Park (INAUDIBLE) walking around the lake. She liked to just (INAUDIBLE)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There may be a break in the disappearance of Caylee Anthony. It`s a swampy river basin area where police have found what appeared to be possibly the remains of little Caylee Anthony. They found a plastic bag with toys and small bones that`s been weighed down by bricks. Inside the bag, there were bones the size of fingers. And they also found a shamrock, and the shamrock is significant because it was Casey Anthony`s favorite symbol.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just a matter of a handful of miles, and we do know from Casey Anthony`s cell phone records, the cell phone pings, that during the time of Caylee`s disappearance that the investigators are focusing on, she was here in this park.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: The last time I know that she was there was the end of May.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, expert dive teams combing the murky waters of a local river.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I got off of work, left Universal, driving back to pick up Caylee like a normal day. And I show up to the apartment, knock on the door. Nobody answers. So I call Zenaida`s cell phone and it`s out of service. I sit down on the steps and wait for a little bit to see if maybe it was just a fluke, if something happened. So I went over to Jay Blanchard Park and checked a couple other places where maybe possibly they would`ve gone.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They discovered a stuffed (ph) shamrock first under a tarp of some sort that turned out to be part of a garbage bag and some bricks weighing down that garbage back, other baby toys, and indeed bones, small bones that looked to be finger or toe bones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve taken her three times myself this year. The last time that I noticed she went with someone other than myself was the end of May.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey had a tattoo of a shamrock. There was a shamrock sticker on her car, and we do know that Caylee had a shamrock-type toy. That is making people very concerned in this area, and of course, the fragments of the bones and garbage bag. We do know parts of a garbage bag were also found in Casey`s trunk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: She liked to go on a walk, a big trail at Jay Blanchard Park.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Nikki, you were there all day at the dive. Tell me what happened.
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: I was there all day. At 2:00 PM today in Blanchard Park, a possible break in the case. Divers that were organized by Leonard Padilla, they found what looked to be small bones, finger bones and toe bones. And that`s what they said they were, and to my layperson eyes, they certainly looked like bones to me.
They also found pieces of a trash bag that had been weighted down with bricks and cement, along with baby toys, one of them a shamrock, one of them some sort of a stuffed figure.
What followed after that was a media frenzy, hundreds of people showing up at that area, including the FBI and the Orange County sheriff`s office, who reviewed the evidence extensively. Now the Orange County`s sheriff`s office just a couple of hours ago came out and said nothing of evidentiary value was found, and that those weren`t even bones.
But the divers -- I got to say, this is not their first rodeo. They`ve been around, and they said they were bones, and that`s why they called out the police officers. Now, Leonard Padilla has been asked to take a polygraph test, to top it all off, by Orange County`s sheriff`s office because they were upset that the media was there first instead of the sheriff`s office.
GRACE: I want to go straight to Todd Bosinski. Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Divers in the murky waters of the local Econ River pull up what look to be -- inside a plastic bag, what look to be tiny bones and toys.
Straight out to Todd Bosinski, the owner of Black Water Divers. He`s conducting the search for Caylee. You know, Todd, as a fellow diver, it is very difficult in -- number one, rivers to start with, because it`s incredibly murky. There`s a lot of debris at the bottom, silt at the bottom that comes up off the bottom of the river. Tell me the circumstances of your search. What was it like in the Econ today?
TODD BOSINSKI, BLACK WATER DIVERS: Well, just to give you a quick idea, if you go into a cave, to the deepest part of the cave and shut off all your lights...
GRACE: Oh!
BOSINSKI: ... that`s pretty much what we were dealing with. Down at the bottom...
GRACE: Man, I hate cave diving. Don`t tell me that, you can`t see a thing.
BOSINSKI: You can`t see a thing. Down at the bottom of the river, the conditions were -- you have that real soft silt sediment. It was about four feet in depth. And we`re just basically taking our arms and pushing them down as best as we could. We had a gentleman drop off a couple of experimental things, some screens and some drag nets, and that assisted us in covering a larger area faster.
And that`s where we soon uncovered what appeared to be bones. I`m not a forensic scientist, so I can`t tell you for sure. Just from the past, they look like bones.
GRACE: Todd Bosinski is joining us. He is the owner of Black Water Divers. He is conducting the search, leading the search under water for little Caylee. Todd, you stated that you are feeling your way along the river bottom. You can`t see anything. You have to go by sense of touch?
BOSINSKI: Yes, ma`am. Yes. It`s all by touch. And if -- see, we can`t really tell if it`s a bone or if it`s a piece of wood, if it`s a piece of metal.
GRACE: Until you bring it up.
BOSINSKI: Until we bring it up. And that`s the whole purpose of having these drag nets. If you give me one second, I`ll grab it.
GRACE: OK. And I want to find out what`s the current. Is there any current in the Econ River?
BOSINSKI: It`s very slight. The current is very slight. There is some, but nothing that`s really affecting the search.
GRACE: OK. Tell me about your drag net you`ve got with you.
BOSINSKI: OK. This is a drag net from a local person that produces these right around the corner, and he dropped these off to us this morning to assist. And I`ll tell you, they came in really, really handy. And basically...
GRACE: How does it work?
BOSINSKI: Basically, what you do is you take it, you got the one side that`s a floater, and the other side is weighted down. And you take it and you sift it through the sand and you close it up like a sandwich or a taco and bring it up to the surface.
GRACE: So you`re going along the entire bottom of the riverbed. Everyone, all day today, the search under water for remains of little Caylee has been going down at a local river, the Econ River, led by bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. As you recall, Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento, there in Orlando, in fact, at Blanchard Park, a point of interest. Leonard Padilla, why did you isolate this particular part of the river?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, it`s across from the playground where Lisa (ph) with Texas Equusearch had taken a picture on a tree of a cross. And on that cross were beads, and those beads were identified by Tracy (ph), who stayed with Casey for the 10 days we had her out on bail. And she had -- the night before, she had drawn (ph) them. And then we came back out here on Sunday and we found not one but two beads on two consecutive days, and they matched the beads that she said.
So then we went and spent two days reading reports and things of that nature and came up with the mention of the park eight times, eight distinctive times. You heard the one time there. And the most significant one is where she changed her story from losing her child at the apartments to having come out here and having Zenaida take her away here at the park. And what we thought that she was setting up an alibi as to why she lost the child at the park, and therefore, Zenaida came away with the child. But that was to where they found the child dead here, she could always say, Well, that`s where Zenaida took her away from me.
GRACE: Yes, and I told you that...
PADILLA: So this is where we`re concentrating...
GRACE: Yes, and she can say I`ve been telling you that all along. I tried to tell you about Jay Blanchard Park.
PADILLA: Correct.
GRACE: Got it. I understand your thinking. To Bethany Marshall. Padilla is correct, she did keep mentioning over and over under a lot of different circumstances this Jay Blanchard Park.
Everybody, we`re showing you footage of it right now. Padilla joined earlier with Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch in the search for little Caylee.
Why would she continue mentioning Jay Blanchard Park? When people are pathological liars and they keep weaving the same fact in over and over, it does raise a red flag, yes?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, sometimes what they mention is what`s most deliciously satisfying to them. So if she killed her child and drowned her in the river there, the park, the park, the park, that`s where this experience happened which might have been very gratifying her, much like going to rent a movie about kidnap and murder the same day her child goes missing.
Why? It`s a reliving and a glorification of the act. So I would be sifting through her language, just like these heroes, these divers, sift through the river, looking for those words, just like Padilla is looking for. Hey, it`s like Scott Peterson went he went and looked over the bay or O.J. Simpson writing, "If I did It." There`s a revisiting of the moment in the murders, both their language and in their acts and in their reminiscing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you really want to delve into the mind of Casey, you`d have to dig real deep into some shrink`s ugly book because she is an ugly-minded little person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Divers searching for Caylee Anthony found a bag with toys. It was in a lake today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bag was taken away as possible evidence. Divers were searching the Little Econ River near Blanchard Park in Orlando. It`s an area of interest because cell phone pings show that Caylee`s mother, Casey Anthony, was in the area during the time that Caylee disappeared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whereabouts in the park did she like the best?
CASEY ANTHONY: The playground. She liked to just (INAUDIBLE) around (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was the last time she was there?
CASEY ANTHONY: I took her in April a couple times.
Every day, I`ve been beating myself up about this, every single day...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
CASEY ANTHONY: ... not knowing where to go, what to do, running in circles literally. It`s all I can do, at this point.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s very, very difficult to understand why Casey Anthony will not come clean and not help the investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY, UNCLE OF MISSING TODDLER: When I asked her why won`t you, you know, allow us to see Caylee, and she said, Well, maybe I`m a spiteful (DELETED).
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Today divers searching the murky waters of the Econ River in the search for little Caylee.
Back to Todd Bosinski, the owner of Black Water Divers, conducting the underwater search. Are there actually alligators in that river?
BOSINSKI: Oh, yes, within yards of us. I`m talking 10 to 15, 25 feet from us, anywhere from the range of little babies up to -- we just saw a 12-footer this morning, and throughout the afternoon.
GRACE: You know those things can run, right? They can run.
BOSINSKI: Yes. .
GRACE: I have dived with sharks but never alligators. That`s a whole different thing. Explain to me how you go about diving with alligators in the vicinity.
BOSINSKI: Gators are generally will not attack under water. We had a guy who...
GRACE: Generally? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa~! Operative word, generally. You mean there are exceptions?
BOSINSKI: I`m sure there are exceptions. We have -- all the gators that I have come in contact with under water, which is a daily basis or a weekly basis, just depending on what the weather is, they`ll come up and they`ll nub you in the legs, they`ll hit you in the back, slap you with their tail a little bit. But as far as I know, and from my research on gators, the gators will not actually physically attack you under water.
GRACE: Is it because they cannot physically attack under water?
BOSINSKI: I don`t think it`s because they can`t physically. I think it`s something to do with when they open their mouth, there`s a possibility of that little flap in the back of their mouth, when they`re forced to go grab their prey, the water rushes in.
GRACE: OK. Because there has to be a physical impossibility for them to attack under water if they`re right there nudging your leg and they don`t bite.
BOSINSKI: It`s probably due to the fact that...
GRACE: Got it.
BOSINSKI: ... they know if they open the water -- or open their mouth under water, they could drown.
GRACE: What was your first reaction when -- was it you or one of your divers that discovered this?
BOSINSKI: Discovered the -- discovered what?
GRACE: The bone-like pieces you found.
BOSINSKI: I was actually the initial diver who found the garbage bag, which was underneath the piece of concrete that had that little what we assumed to be a clover, a four-leafed clover. Come to find out once the FBI got here and forensics teams got here, they broke it apart and it came to be a small Gumby, Gumby magnet.
GRACE: But it was a child`s toy, but you`re saying it was in a garbage bag weighted down with a cement block?
BOSINSKI: Yes, ma`am. The garbage bag was ripped -- when I found it down underneath the silt, from what I could tell and by what I could feel, the garbage bag was partially closed. And as I pulled it up, I didn`t realize there was concrete in it. And as I got it up to the surface, I realized that there was actually something weighing in it, and I tried to do the best I could to preserve it. But in these type of conditions it`s extremely -- extremely hard to be able to control everything...
GRACE: Well, you can`t see.
BOSINSKI: ... especially when you`re only using one of your senses.
GRACE: You can`t see what you`re doing.
BOSINSKI: Exactly.
GRACE: With me Todd Bosinski, owner of Black Water Divers.
We are taking your calls. Out to Sarah in Canada. Hi, Sarah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I have a two-part question. I wanted to know if the fact that the bones were with the toys -- could that indicate significance of the whodunnit? I mean, it would be random for just a maniac to do something like that, bury the child with toys.
GRACE: True.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Also, can the grandparents can be called to identify whether or not they recognize these days as little Caylee`s?
GRACE: Out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Tell me about the toy.
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: What I saw were very small toys in a plastic bag. And I don`t think investigators believe they have any connection whatsoever. They left them with the divers and they did not, you know, take them along with -- well, they did take the -- they were actually rocks. What they thought were bones were actually two rocks. One was smaller than the other. I saw the larger one. It was sort of diamond- shaped. They did take those as found properties, the sheriff`s office called it. But again, they were saying it had nothing to do with (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: No connection with Caylee. I want to go to Tim Miller, the president of Texas Equusearch. Had you already scanned with sidescan sonar this area?
TIM MILLER, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: Nancy, I can only shake my head. This is so crazy. You know...
GRACE: So was that a yes or a no? Did you already sidescan it?
MILLER: I scanned that thing two times. And this is just exactly the way Leonard told me he was going write the script on Sunday. And if his experts can`t determine stones from bones, you need to get different divers. I just can`t even believe what`s going on.
GRACE: Well, these are volunteers, Tim Miller. I mean, they are not experts, archaeological or anthropological experts.
MILLER: Well, Nancy -- Nancy...
GRACE: They`re people out there volunteering. Of course they don`t know the difference.
MILLER: Nancy, Nancy, Nancy, stop right now. You said in the beginning the expert divers. I`m going to tell you, if you`re an expert diver, you can determine stones from bones.
GRACE: Well, I consider myself to be an expert diver because I`ve dived over a hundred times, but I may not know the difference of something I pull up off the bottom of the river.
MILLER: I don`t think you would call the media first before you call law enforcement to put on a damn circus show. If you thought it was truly that, why wouldn`t -- I know you, Nancy Grace. You would call the police first if you think you saw something.
GRACE: So does this mean you did search the river with sidescan sonar?
MILLER: Nancy, I knew on Saturday that Leonard Padilla was going do this dive. I put somebody in that water with sonar for three-and-a-half hours Sunday morning. They got done scanning that, said they didn`t find anything. I personally got in that water myself with the sonar. I eliminated that. When I pulled that boat on the water, Leonard Padilla was standing on the bank and said, Tim, I need your divers. I said, Leonard, we`re not diving. I said, I can tell you where tires are, where a wheelbarrow frame is, where different things are at in there. I said, Leonard, please...
GRACE: Understood.
MILLER: ... don`t do this.
GRACE: So you did do sidescan sonar.
MILLER: Yes.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks. Weigh in, Mike.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Nancy, you know, if Tim said he went and did sidescan sonar and he was able to pick up these anomalies, you know, then that would have been good enough for me, but you know, Leonard felt the need to get these divers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: You don`t have my permission. You know, I`m on TV every night (INAUDIBLE)
I have not a problem with him being out here. I have a problem with him having a memorial service for Caylee tomorrow. that`s my problem. You`d have a problem with it, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: I`ve got a tip right now in Coral Springs, Florida, that Caylee is alive. What`s going on at the park? You know, I`m told that the authorities are coming down. We`re going let them do their job, and whenever they come to us and tell us they have something concrete, then we`ll take that. But right now, we`re focusing on this tip that just came in just moments ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. Drew, what was Casey Anthony`s reaction behind bars? I understand she was actually watching the coverage of the dive search and the apparent discovery of bones.
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Right. And this was in the initial stages, when it didn`t come out yet that this was all a hoax and that it wasn`t actually bones that were found. The jail...
GRACE: I don`t know that I would call it a hoax, Drew Petrimoulx. I think that I would call it the discovery of something unrelated to the case, as it turns out.
PETRIMOULX: OK. We can put it that way. But she saw the early stages of the investigation today, and she saw that -- you know, that they -- it wasn`t determined yet that this was false, and she basically just turned around, went back into her cell with no reaction.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I know she`s alive and I know she`s out there. She`s coming home. She`s leading you to a place but she`s not telling me to the right -- exact location to which apartment it is because she`s afraid if someone walks in that something may happen to Caylee.
My daughter may have some mistruths out there or half-truths, but she is not a murderer.
There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots that stunk so bad.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Cindy, but these dogs are trained to find dead bodies, Cindy.
ANTHONY: The same dogs that cleared our hour cleared them. There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child. She`s lived with me for three years. I`ve never seen anything.
She is not dead. We still believe firmly that Caylee is alive. I`ve got a tip right now in Coral Springs, Florida that Caylee is alive. Until I hear it from the authorities, it`s just -- it is what it is, it`s a bag of whatever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: George and Cindy Anthony joining us tomorrow night right here. There you hear Casey Anthony`s biggest defender, her mother, today before these items found by Padilla`s team at the bottom of the Econ River were determined to be unrelated to Caylee`s disappearance.
Their first reaction was it was planted.
Speaking of reactions, according to Drew Petrimoulx with WBDO, Casey Anthony sees the coverage of possible bones of her daughter found at the bottom of the river, has no reaction, turns around and goes back to her cell.
Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Eleanor Dixon, felony prosecutor, Atlanta, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta, Richard Herman, defense attorney, New York.
Richard Herman, if I were looking for John David or Lucy, and I see that on the TV I would be screaming to turn up the volume to get every last detail. Why did she go back to her private cell?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Because she knows that`s not where her daughter is, Nancy. It`s the -- I.
GRACE: So she does know where her daughter`s buried?
HERMAN: No, she knows she`s not there in that lake there. Listen.
GRACE: Why -- how would she know that if she doesn`t know where she is?
HERMAN: She gave the daughter away to someone, Nancy.
GRACE: Then how does she know that someone didn`t kill Caylee?
HERMAN: Because this is a circus by Padilla. I respect Tim Miller.
GRACE: There you go.
HERMAN: He calls this the Padilla circus and old bozo.
Here`s a breaking news, they want him to take an FBI lie detector. He better lawyer up right now because federal obstruction brings five years, Lenny. Five years.
GRACE: Richard, once again, you`ve done an artful job of avoiding the question.
Eleanor, please weigh in.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, I agree. I can`t believe a defense attorney would say that his potential client didn`t shed a tear because she knew the body wasn`t there, because you know what, Nancy? She probably does know where the body is.
GRACE: And if she had been -- Caylee had been kidnapped by the nanny, like she said right there at that park, Jay Blanchard Park, where they are looking, Padilla`s looking, how do we know that that nanny didn`t kill the little girl? We don`t know that.
Why, Peter Odom? How do you spin that in front of a your that she just turn around and marched back to her cell, not interested at all in the possible discovery of her daughter`s bones?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`ve got to tell you, Nancy. I`m with Richard on this one. This search was a circus perpetrated by Leonard Padilla.
GRACE: No. No. If you can just answer the question.
ODOM: The answer is there`s no other way to characterize it but that she has guilty knowledge, Nancy. She knows exactly where that body is.
GRACE: At least, finally, a straight answer. Peter, I respect that. Of course, you could never say that in front of a jury in your line of business but at least you`ve said the truth tonight.
ODOM: But I`ve said on this show.
GRACE: Padilla, you want to answer all these accusations?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, ON LOCATION FROM DIVE TEAM SITE: I don`t think they even merit an answer. We`re out here with these divers that are Black Water divers. Our own diver was not experienced enough. We were going pull out when this gentleman called me Wednesday.
We decided to go ahead and go to work with them because they are experienced Black Water divers. Our guy is not. As far as attorneys that sit there and criticize, you know, our motives and our actions.
GRACE: I don`t see them out searching.
PADILLA: No, I don`t think so and they`re not going to, but the -- situation when you`re talking about these divers that are out here in that murkiness, and the alligators, you see the alligators out there.
You know, I won`t even get within 25 feet of the water line and neither will Rob Dick, and these guys are out right there and you see the alligator just laying there 25 feet from Todd and I`m -- like starting to feel like, no, this is a bad idea. Let`s get him out of there and they`re saying, no, don`t worry about it, Todd knows what he`s doing.
And then you have somebody saying that this is a circus. Well, you know, I just -- I don`t think they have an understanding. I`d buy their airplane ticket down here so that they can be here with us tomorrow and the next day. And they could see exactly what we`re doing.
GRACE: Yes, let them get down at the bottom of the Econ River and look around for a while.
PADILLA: Yes.
GRACE: Let them do what Tim Miller does and his search crews every day all over the country. People that are throwing stones at the two of you, you know what, they`re not doing anything except armchair quarterbacking. So you take whatever they say with a box of salt, to both you and Tim Miller.
Out to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, famed forensic scientist, also a consultant on the Anthony defense team. How long does it take, Kobe, to determine -- to test and determine whether bone is animal or human?
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, Nancy, a physical anthropologist, just by visual inspection, would probably be able to identify human versus animal.
If they cannot, they`ve got to do mitochondrial DNA and clearly determine there if it`s human or not. That could be a matter of a couple of days, but I think this was very rapid, visual inspection. No problem.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Liz in Florida. Hi, Liz.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is have any reputable psychics been brought into this case to help find Caylee or her body?
GRACE: What about it, Nikki Pierce with WDBO?
NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, there was one psychic that I believe actually appeared on your show. She also has some cadaver dogs with her along with that psychic.
GRACE: St. James.
PIERCE: Yes, Gail St. James and along with that psychic there have been thousands of tips called in. I do know that the Orange County Sheriff`s Office does investigate tips that they call credible but I don`t know exactly what the criteria would be.
GRACE: And St. James, Nikki, apparently, brought with her a whole team of psychics that felt they had had visions or vibrations or feelings, dreams, whatever they have, and we`re going on those with cadaver dogs.
Again, you know, you may want to throw a stone at them because you don`t believe in them, at least they`re out there with dogs searching.
Back to the lines. Tracy in Wisconsin, hi, Tracy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. First of all, thanks for keeping the story on the front line and hopefully.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . we`ll get some justice for Caylee.
GRACE: I pray.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m wondering, when Equusearch pulled out, where did they go and when are they going to be coming back, and then why do they want Padilla to take a lie detector test?
GRACE: Very quickly, you know, Texas Equusearch, I believe, went down to look for Natalee, I believe it was eight separate times. They pulled out -- I`m going to go to Tim Miller on this -- because of the torrential flooding rains in Florida to start with and they`d come back when they thought they could do some good.
Tim Miller, where did you guys go?
TIM MILLER, HEAD OF EQUUSEARCH, RESUMING SEARCH FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: In this search we did exactly what the sheriff`s department wanted us to do. We completed the areas that would be flooded.
GRACE: Extensive areas.
MILLER: Extensive areas. Many, many distractions. The search continues for Caylee every weekend to a smaller scale. We`re not going anywhere. When we`re going to go back there on a bigger scale, we`ll certainly be there with the best resources that we`ve got and.
GRACE: What is your Web site? What is your Web site, Tim Miller?
MILLER: TXEQ.org.
GRACE: T-X-E-Q-U?
MILLER: No. T-X-E-Q-O-R-G.
GRACE: Got it.
With me the president of Texas Equusearch, Tim Miller. They covered about 25 square miles with over 2,000 volunteers this past weekend.
Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento who originally put up Casey Anthony`s first $500,000 bail before he came off the bond, now conducting under water dive searches for the little girl.
Todd Bosinski is with us, the owner of Black Water Divers. At the end of day, how do you feel the search went?
TODD BOSINSKI, OWNER, BLACK WATER DIVERS, CONDUCTING SEARCH FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: I think it went fantastic. Honestly, we`re not doing anything but help -- trying to help.
You know, I hear the president of Equusearch over here stating that he was out here with sonar and all this other stuff. One of the questions I have for him, has he been trained with sonar? Does he know what type of sonar equipment he was using? Was it recorded, and if it was.
GRACE: Well, I can answer that for you. I can answer that for you very quickly. Yes, he`s been trained. He`s done five-scan sonar with success all over the country.
Very quickly to Bethany Marshall. Bethany, I want to go to you about her reaction behind bars. I am intrigued, and I think this is going to come up in trial. No reaction when she saw the possibility Caylee`s bone has been discovered.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, you know, when someone commits what we call (INAUDIBLE) homicide, what that means is there is a buildup of such hatred, envy, rage, bitterness towards another human being. They don`t even want that human being on the face of the planet.
What happens when that person`s gone? There`s tremendous relief and actually it`s been documented that this relief phase can last as much as six months to two years and it can either be a flattening of affects or partying, you know, literally, dancing on the other person`s grave.
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(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We`ve been following reports today that a bag of toys and possibly bones was found during a search for missing Florida toddler Caylee Anthony.
This search in particular organized by bounty hunter Leonard Padilla.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Padilla has been requested by the Orange County`s sheriff`s office to participate in a polygraph and that will be conducted by the board -- by the FBI.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We asked California bounty hunter Leonard Padilla whether he saw the items that were supposedly bones and he, obviously, was trying to distance himself from it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Were they really, in fact, bones here or was it.
PADILLA: I don`t know. I haven`t seen any yet, it`s because they`re over there and I`m over here. And.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who called law enforcement?
PADILLA: The divers thought it was important enough to call.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. First, back out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. What can you tell me about an alleged sighting of Caylee? I want to hear about that.
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: That came from Cindy Anthony today when she was being questioned about this bag that was found. The whole time she maintained that Caylee is as still alive saying she even knows of a sighting that happened down in South Florida, Coral Springs area, and she said she was spotted with a middle-aged man at a McDonald`s down there.
GRACE: And what happened? Was it investigated?
PETRIMOULX: I`m not sure. She`s basically saying that -- I think if it was investigated it would have to have been her own private investigators. I don`t if it was something that the sheriff`s office did, though.
GRACE: You`re seeing a photo taken of an alleged sighting of Caylee. Take a look. This turned out not to be Caylee. There she is. Let`s remove the chyrons at the bottom of the screen so we can see the full photo of the sighting. There you go. That`s the sighting. One of the sightings. There have been several, Nashville, Tennessee, Georgia, Orlando, Daytona Florida, two sightings there, Coral Springs, the most recent.
To Nikki Pierce, do we know whether this sighting of little Caylee with a man at McDonald`s was investigated by police?
PIERCE: It was investigated by police and they found it to not be a credible tip. They found that it was not indeed Caylee.
GRACE: Then there was the sighting, Kathi Belich, on the AirTran flight from Florida to Atlanta to Puerto Rico.
Kathi Belich joining us from WFTV. Was that sighting investigated?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: That sighting was investigated. I believe there were two children on that flight, one was much younger than Caylee and another older than Caylee. It was thoroughly investigated. They got the flight manifest from the flights and it turned out not to be her.
GRACE: So all of these alleged sightings, Kathi Belich, have been investigated, correct?
BELICH: As far as we know, everyone has been investigated and everyone has been ruled out at that point.
GRACE: Is that true, Nikki Pierce with WDBO?
PIERCE: That`s true. As far as we know, they`ve all been investigated and all been ruled out.
GRACE: Do we know any circumstances around these alleged sightings at McDonald`s in Coral Springs?
PIERCE: Besides the fact that it has also been ruled out and.
GRACE: Yes.
PIERCE: . she appeared in a McDonald`s, no, not really.
GRACE: I guess that`s all we need to know is they investigated it and it`s been ruled out.
Everybody, taking your calls, to Mary in Florida. Hi, Mary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You are truly a blessing for everybody.
GRACE: Thank you for saying that. You need to tell that to the defense bar. I don`t think they believe you.
What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do. I have a question and a quick comment. My question is to Tim Miller, why he will not go ahead and send divers down. And my comment is I`ve been following this case the whole time and we should be thankful for everybody who has done everything and stop turning noses at the people who are out there every day.
This isn`t a competition, you know? This is truly a blessing.
GRACE: To Tim Miller, I understand you didn`t send divers down because you had already side scan sonared it several times.
MILLER: Several times, Nancy.
GRACE: Yes.
MILLER: And I`m good at that.
GRACE: And that`s no easy thing.
MILLER: It`s no easy thing. And you know what, if you -- if that water is so murky you`re not going to see an alligator 20 feet away so I question divers, but, you know, the reason I`m not sending divers down is that I told Leonard on Sunday, Leonard, don`t do this.
Leonard told me personally and I`m going to sit here and tell you what he told me. When I got doing the sonar work, pulled the boat up to shore, Leonard said, Tim, I need your divers, I need your divers.
GRACE: You told me that.
MILLER: I said, Leonard, there`s nothing there. Leonard told me, Tim, you don`t realize the opportunity we`re missing. He gave me the story about why he thought that. He said the body is right there. He said, Tim, think about it, just think about it, we`ll have that cameras be -- we`ll have your divers in there, TV cameras all around.
Tim Miller`s holding Caylee`s skull. Think how much money we can make, Tim. Exactly what happened today is what Leonard told us on Sunday and we are doing the statement.
GRACE: Leonard Padilla, do you want to respond to that?
MILLER: The script went exactly as he said.
GRACE: Leonard, do you want to respond to that?
MILLER: It`s not a circus. I asked Leonard.
PADILLA: I`d like to respond.
MILLER: . to be at the lake of Texas.
GRACE: I`d like too hear Leonard respond to that. Go ahead, Leonard.
PADILLA: I begged Tim to send his divers down because we only had one and I asked him on Sunday, I even went back by his headquarters and asked him, please, Tim, we can`t pass up this opportunity if you`ve got the divers, and he told me -- the last thing he told me Sunday was OK, I`ll get them out there tomorrow morning.
Well, when tomorrow morning came, we had our two divers and then we decided to go ahead and send in the two divers, but I did, I begged him. I did everything I could short of.
GRACE: OK.
PADILLA: . paying him.
GRACE: Understood.
PADILLA: . to send the divers down.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Diane in Florida. Hi, Diane. I think I`ve got Diane in Florida. Hi, dear, what`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I`ve watched the coverage all afternoon, the live coverage from here, from outside of Orlando, and the lead detective, one of the lead detectives arrived at the scene and one of the FBI agents arrived.
They were there less than 15 minutes, the lead detective shook his head and said, this is, you know, it doesn`t relate to the case. I don`t even understand how they can do that.
GRACE: What about it, Mike Brooks? How could so quickly rule it out, especially the little toys?
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Yes, I -- you know, Nancy, they know. They have been working this. They know from leads. They have been in the house. They`ve done search warrants. They know what`s human bone probably looks like because they are homicide investigator and that`s what the specialize it.
And you know, if you got the FBI and the Orange County there with the experience, both of those departments, they say it`s not related.
GRACE: You know, would seen it. They would at least take it and look at it.
BROOKS: Well, if it`s not related to it, if it`s not anything.
GRACE: Well, how would you know that, especially the toys?
BROOKS: Well, they probably know what kind of toys were in the house, what kind of toys did she had -- had played with.
GRACE: OK. All right, whatever.
BROOKS: I`m telling you, Nancy.
GRACE: Out to the lines. I hear you.
BROOKS: All right.
GRACE: Jennifer in Texas. Hi, Jennifer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
GRACE: What`s your question, dear? I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just love your babies, they`re so cute.
GRACE: Thank you, thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just have a question.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When Casey goes to trial, what evidence do they need to make sure that woman gets the death penalty?
GRACE: Eleanor Dixon, what about it?
DIXON: Aggravating circumstances and the biggest one is that she`s the child under the age of 12.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Peter Odom, Richard Herman -- to you, Richard, I still don`t get why when Casey Anthony heard the coverage that her daughter`s bones have been discovered, she goes back to her room.
HERMAN: Because she knew this was an orchestrated event by bozo media-whore Padilla. That`s why.
GRACE: Oh excuse me, I believe you are on the air waves right now as well, so pot, don`t call the kettle black.
What about it, Odom?
HERMAN: Hey, I`m not hogging all the media coverage.
GRACE: Uh-huh.
ODOM: Nancy, she`s been play-acting forever. But I still have to contend she knows where the body is buried. And she knows it wasn`t buried there and that`s why she didn`t react.
GRACE: Well, she`s not hiring you for the defense team.
Eleanor?
DIXON: Well, it`s a good thing she`s not hiring these two because they`d be my favorite jury members right now, Nancy.
ODOM: Oh yes, OK. Beautiful.
DIXON: And I think we all know why she went back and didn`t shed a tear.
HERMAN: Hey, Nancy, we defense lawyers love you. That`s why we do the show.
GRACE: Padilla, Padilla, why are they -- is somebody asking you to take a poly?
PADILLA: Well, I think it`s to make sure that I didn`t have anything to do with planting evidence and as I`ve told the media this afternoon out here, Lee, Cindy and George, obviously, don`t want to take a polygraph. I have no problem with it. Bozo, media whore, whatever you want to call it, I have no problem with a polygraph.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Elizabeth in Washington. Hi, Elizabeth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, hello?
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello. Thank you for being a good role model, first.
GRACE: Oh lord, please don`t say that. What`s your question? Hurry, hurry, hurry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. My question is, Caylee was allegedly killed on June 15th and I would assume she would have been placed into the car at that point. Why on June 24th did George not smell that smell? And where would Casey possibly put the body when she came back with those gas cans, because it was reported George did get to the trunk?
GRACE: You want to tackle that one, Leonard Padilla?
PADILLA: Yes. Here`s what happened.
GRACE: Hurry.
PADILLA: She was gone in the wee hours -- excuse me?
GRACE: Hurry.
PADILLA: You mean hurry. 16th, on the 24th, the body has been packaged. When she went to the house on the 18th, she packaged it. There was only 2 1/2 days of decomposition in the trunk. After that the body was packaged and didn`t rip open until the 25th.
GRACE: Let`s remember Army Specialist Alex Gonzalez, 21, Mission, Texas, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Loved baseball, football, golf, dreamed of being a cop.
Leaves behind parents, Alfredo and Dahlia, three sisters and doggie Lucky.
Alex Gonzalez, American hero.
Thank you to our guests and to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
