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Casey Anthony Car Stills Smells of Decomposition

Aired November 14, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen 21 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell. As we go to air, police confirm, after four long months, the horrible smell of human decomposition still at this hour in mom Casey`s car, the scent of death so bad, investigators say they can still smell it without even opening the car door. The stunning announcement comes as the defense team finally brings in their own forensic expert to examine mom Casey`s car.

And tonight, we learn mom Casey may have detectives over the barrel. Hours of so-called dead zone drop the tot mom cell activity on and around the day Caylee disappears. This after cell phone records reveal mom Casey obsessively texting and calling day and night, over 553 texts. But then the phone goes radio-silent when Caylee vanishes.

And tonight, a team of bounty hunters and volunteer divers continue to comb a local park and the murky alligator-infested waters in the Econ River in the search for Caylee. Tonight, where is Caylee?


GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: I believe that there`s -- something was dead back there. And I smell and I`m, like, Oh, my God. I think I whispered out to myself, Please don`t let this be my Caylee.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to Orange County authorities, tot mom Casey Anthony`s car, which showed evidence of human decomposition, still reeks, and the car has been in the evidence garage for four months.

CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: There was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. No odor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One office said that he could smell the odor just by being near the vehicle, even with its doors locked.

CINDY ANTHONY: Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Local 6 analyzed hundreds of text messages and phone calls placed and received by Casey in the two weeks after Caylee disappeared. We found only 24 times when three or more hours passed with her phone remaining silent. And when you account for sleep and periods when she appeared to stay in the same place, we`re left with three gaps or dead zones, three hours of possibilities.



CASEY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S MOTHER: I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic, and I went to a neutral place, still hoping that I would get a call, or you know, find out that Caylee was coming back so that I could go get her.


GRACE: And tonight, a hometown Navy officer gunned down in cold blood. No, not Iraq, not Afghanistan, but in upscale Virginia suburbs. And the tragedy unfolds directly in front of the victim`s two little girls, his fiancee and the family dog, all out on a stroll in a quaint, pristine neighborhood. Tonight, who murdered Navy Lieutenant Todd Cox (ph)?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was "Pop," pause "Pop-pop, pop-pop."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The sounds of gunfire quickly turned this tranquil neighborhood in a chaotic crime scene. At around 8:00 o`clock, police say, Todd Cox, his fiancee and two children were walking their dog along Beverly (ph) Avenue when the shooter gunned Cox down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Megan (ph) says she made eye contact with the driver who would become Todd`s killer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was laying on the ground and I had my arms over my head, basically, once I realized what was happening. Really, I just laid there and waited to get shot myself. I thought for sure that he was going to shoot me, too. And then as soon as the shots stopped, I heard the truck start. And the truck was leaving, and I looked over.

i think, for the whole family, I mean, we deserve answers. And whoever did this needs to pay for what they`ve done. Todd didn`t deserve to die like this. Nobody does.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.


GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh, after we pulled inside the garage, she said -- her exact words were, Jesus Christ, what died?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Orange County sheriff`s office says the smell coming from Casey Anthony`s car determined to be human decomposition is still present nearly four months later.



GEORGE ANTHONY: When I drove around, I told my wife, I said, This car stinks so bad, I can`t -- I`m having a hard time driving it home. It`s raining outside. I have the windows down in the car probably about this much to get home. I couldn`t freaking breathe.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sheriff`s department spokesman even went so far as to say he could smell the horrific odor just by being near the car, which had its doors and windows shut.



GEORGE ANTHONY: When I first went there to pick up that vehicle, I got within three feet of it, I could smell something.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Caylee died Monday, June 16, investigators may want to focus more on Wednesday, June 18, to Thursday, June 19. And we found two dead zones of interest on those days. First, Wednesday, June 18, the phone goes silent at 6:57 PM and does not ping another cell tower until 8:32 AM, Thursday the 19th. Later that Thursday, June 19, another unusual gap. Casey`s phone moves from around Tony`s apartment at 4:54 that afternoon, then starts toward the south and east. There`s no indication where Casey may have been. And if this is the time Casey may have disposed of the body in her car trunk, there`s no indication where Caylee may be, either.


GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150. Mark, welcome back.


GRACE: What can you tell me? What`s the latest on the search today, the dive search?

WILLIAMS: Well, first off, we can talk about the Anthony car. It still has that smell of death. Dr. Henry Lee and attorney Jose Baez stopped by the car today. They took a look at the car, they took photographs, things of that nature. They were not able to take anything away from the car.

And as opposed to the search now, we have in the little Econ River, a half dozen divers went into the Little Econ River earlier today, they came up empty-handed. Yesterday, if you recall, Nancy, they came up with a bag of goodies, basically, a Gumby doll and some bones, but they were not related to the Caylee Anthony case.

Now, this bombshell we just learned. Leonard Padilla, who has been conducting that search, the California bounty hunter, has been told by Blanchard Park officials, Out you go. You`re not going to be diving this weekend whatsoever.


WILLIAMS: Because they just want a respite of everything that has happened out there. That area has already been searched by -- by Tim Miller and his Equusearch team. It`s already been cleared. So nobody really knows why there`s just this fascination from Leonard about going back into the water. There`s a lot of alligators in the water. There`s a lot of strange things in that water out there in the Little Econ.

GRACE: Well, it just seems to me -- I know that Tim Miller had used the sidescan sonar. I don`t know what it would hurt to also search with divers.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, that`s a good back-up because one time, Tim Miller had promised that his divers would be out there, they never showed up. And that`s why Leonard Padilla hired a couple of divers to go in yesterday from a group called Black Water. And they were volunteers. They went in and found this bag. But there`s still a lot of things down there, and the water is very murky, Nancy.

GRACE: Let`s talk about this dead zone. What can you tell me about that, Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: Well, what we can say is there were three times during the course of several days where her phone went dead. The first one was June 17, a three-hour period, between 5:23 and 8:23 PM. Then her cell phone pinged near Tony Lazzaro`s (ph) apartment near the University of Central Florida. Then on June 18, the cell went dead from 6:57 PM until 8:32 the next morning. Both times, again, the phone pinged when it was turned on near Lazzaro`s apartment. Then on the 19th, it pinged on a tower near Lake Underhill at 4:54 PM. Then the cell phone went dead for several hours.

GRACE: Out to famed forensic scientist Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky out of John Jay College of Criminal Justice. The detectives say now, four months after the fact, they still smell the smell of human decomposition. You are a paid consultant to the Anthony defense team. Take a listen to this, Koby (ph).


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you guys picked up the car, what else was in the car that may not have been in the car when we inventoried it?

GEORGE ANTHONY: You guys are aware of the smell of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I`m trying to tiptoe around that issue because I know it`s a sensitive one.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I just got to tell you my feelings are, and I don`t like how that smells. I`m being straight with you guys. I don`t like the smell in the car. I`m being straight with you guys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We didn`t like the smell, either.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m being straight and honest and I just...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we appreciate that, George, and we wouldn`t share that with anyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, because that`s a difficult topic for you.

GEORGE ANTHONY: It`s tough. You know, stuff has got to come out. It`s just the way it is. I`m not going to hold back



CINDY ANTHONY: There was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. No odor.

I thought rotten whatever it was, something decomposing in there. Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.

I know what I know. Caylee is not dead.

Air samples don`t mean anything.


GRACE: No odor, Koby. But the detectives say four months later, it still reeks.

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, the chemistry of decomposition, whatever was decomposing, consists of a lot of different chemicals, some of them volatile -- they evaporate -- and some don`t. And I`m assuming that what they`re smelling are the chemicals that have adsorbed onto various surfaces either in the car, under the car, someplace on the car. So that`s what they`re smelling.

GRACE: The smell of decomposition? You are admitting there`s decomposition?

KOBILINSKY: I`m saying that something was decomposing. I don`t know what it was or whether it was human or not. But...

GRACE: Are you suggesting it`s a pizza, like your clients did?

KOBILINSKY: Certainly not. I don`t think...

GRACE: So you admit that it`s a life form.

KOBILINSKY: I don`t think it`s a pizza. And based on what I`ve read, it is a life form, or was a life form.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Peggy in Florida. Hi, Peggy.


GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question. Where is Caylee`s dad? And who is he? Does anybody know?

GRACE: Out to Natisha Lance, our producer on the story from the get- go. Natisha, weigh in.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Caylee`s dad is someone who was never put on the birth certificate. There have been several different stories about who he was or who he is. But the long story short is that he is deceased, and he was not in Caylee`s life whatsoever.

GRACE: Why do you believe he`s deceased, because Casey Anthony said so?

LANCE: Well, yes. This is according to Casey Anthony that...

GRACE: Wait. Did you just say yes? You believe something Casey Anthony said?

LANCE: I`m not saying I believe it. I`m just saying, according to Casey Anthony, she says that the father of Caylee is deceased. And that seems to be a story that police have been comfortable with, and they`ve gone with that story, as well.

GRACE: To Jessica D`Onofrio with WKMG. The search has ended. Will there be any more dives in Blanchard Park? The search has ended for today, that is.

JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, WKMG: Well, as we`re hearing, Nancy, Leonard Padilla is not allowed back in Blanchard Park, so for now, Blanchard Park is going to be quiet for some time.



CINDY ANTHONY: I`ve been getting text messages, phone calls, media. I`ve heard it from all over. And you know, it`s been -- I hear it from the authorities. It`s just -- it is what it is. It`s a bag of whatever. Just another day in our lives. We go through this every day. I mean, stuff (ph) over at Blanchard Park`s a little different, you know, than what we`ve had, except I did get from Tim Miller they found bones the other day that were rib bones from a cow or something that someone put out at the site.

So you know, it is what it is. Right now, we`re dealing with this. And you know, we still believe firmly that Caylee`s alive. That`s where our focus has been from day one and we`re not faltering from that. And until something concrete comes in from the authorities and not speculation from anybody else, this is what our focus is on.


GRACE: And there has been a lot of infighting, a lot of division amongst the ranks in the search for little Caylee. Take a listen to this.


TIM MILLER, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: Leonard told me, Tim, you don`t realize the opportunity we`re missing, gave me the story about why he thought that. He said, The body`s right here. He said, Tim, think about it. Just think about it. We`ll have the cameras -- we`ll have your divers in there, TV cameras all around. Tim Miller is holding Caylee`s skull. Think how much money we can make, Tim. Exactly what happened today is what Leonard told us on Sunday, and we are doing a statement...

GRACE: Leonard Padilla, you want to respond to that?

MILLER: The script went exactly as he said. It`s not...

GRACE: Leonard, do you want to respond to that?

MILLER: ... a surface -- I asked Leonard to be...


GRACE: I`d like to hear Leonard respond to that. Go ahead, Leonard.

PADILLA: I begged Tim to send his divers down because we only had one. And I asked him on Sunday -- I even went back by his headquarters and asked him, Please, Tim, we can`t pass up this opportunity, if you`ve got the divers. And he told me -- the last thing he told me Sunday was, OK, I`ll get them out there tomorrow morning. Well, when tomorrow morning came, we had our two divers, and then we decided to go ahead and send in the two divers.


GRACE: And we`ve done a lot of defending various parties on this show, a lot of defending anybody out there, trying to search to bring Caylee home. Take a listen.


GRACE: Who pays your people?

MILLER: Nobody does, Nancy.

GRACE: They`re all volunteers.

MILLER: We`re all volunteers. I`ve got $35,000-plus invested in -- in Caylee`s search. But what price tag do you put on a missing person?

GRACE: Let them do what Tim Miller does with his search crews every day all over the country. People that are throwing stones -- you know what? They`re not doing anything except armchair quarterbacking. So you take whatever they say with a box of salt.



GRACE: Grandparents George and Cindy Anthony have been put through hell, publicly stating that the little girl is still alive. Many people have suggested that George and Anthony -- George and Cindy Anthony should also be charged. I disagree.

MILLER: Everybody`s looking forward to, hopefully, bringing this thing to a close this weekend.

GRACE: You know, I pray -- I pray that you`re right so the Anthonys can have some peace of mind.


GRACE: Out to Mark Williams with WNDB. Why all the infighting?

WILLIAMS: Boy, you know, it`s tough to say. I`ve stayed very, very, very neutral in this. I know Leonard Padilla. I have not yet met Tim Miller. Both seem to be honorable men. It`s difficult to say what goes on behind closed doors, Nancy. And I -- last week, I did a telephone talk show for our radio station, and I said everybody should throw a couple of bucks towards Tim Miller`s organization because they`re out there doing a great job. I hope this thing comes to an end soon because it`s...

GRACE: Well, bottom line...

WILLIAMS: ... because everybody hurts.

GRACE: ... here`s the deal, Mark Williams. It`s not the search for Mark Williams. It`s not the search for Padilla or Miller or George and Cindy Anthony or Nancy Grace, or anybody else. It is a search for Caylee.

WILLIAMS: That`s right.

GRACE: And I believe that a lot of people are getting confused about what is happening down in Florida right now.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Julie in Florida. Hi, Julie. I think I`ve got Julie on the phone. Hi, Julie.


GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, if the Anthonys have this information that Caylee is alive, why are they wasting everybody`s time and effort? Why don`t they release it and get Casey out of jail?

GRACE: To Natisha Lance. Very quickly, Natisha, what is the most recent sighting? I understand it was in Coral Springs?

LANCE: That`s correct, Nancy. Cindy said the other day that there was a sighting at a McDonald`s in Coral Springs and they were looking into it and following up on that tip.

GRACE: And to you, Jessica D`Onofrio. I understand that every sighting -- Nashville, Tennessee, Coral Springs, Deltona, Florida, even an AirTran flight from Florida to Atlanta to Puerto Rico -- has been checked out by police? Yes, no.

D`ONOFRIO: They`ve all been checked out by police, Nancy, and they`ve all been dismissed.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Julie in Missouri. Hi, Julie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Hi, Nancy. I first want to say that I think it is great that Leonard is searching the river, regardless of his motives.

GRACE: And you know what? Even if his motive is for showmanship, even if that`s true, he`s searching. He`s searching. I know Tim Miller`s motive. He is a crime victim. His daughter was murdered and went missing, and that propelled him into a lifetime of searching for murder and kidnap victims. You know, I don`t care what the motivation is. They are trying to find Caylee.

What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, do they know yet what caused the stain in the back of the trunk?

GRACE: You know, that stain was actually referred to in George Anthony`s statement to police. To Lawrence Kobilinsky, who`s on the case for the Anthonys. Do you know what the stain is from?

KOBILINSKY: Honestly, I don`t. I mean, it`s been alluded to that it might be a pizza stain, it might be something biological. But I really...

GRACE: A pizza stain?

KOBILINSKY: I heard stories like that.

GRACE: You know, Koby, you know, you keep saying things like that...

KOBILINSKY: I`m not...

GRACE: ... and they`re going to play it on cross-examination on you at trial.

KOBILINSKY: I am not implying it`s a pizza stain. I`m saying I`ve heard that language. But I don`t know what that stain is. I have no idea.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Hugo Rodriguez out of Miami, defense attorney Carmen St. George out of New York. To you Carmen. Yesterday, when Caylee (SIC) Anthony hears on the jailhouse TV that there may be discovery of a child`s bones at the bottom of the Econ River, they told her to go back to her cell, she said, Fine, turned around and walked off. Can you imagine?

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What else is she going to say, Nancy?

GRACE: Insist that she gets to see the coverage?

ST. GEORGE: Nancy, I think, at this point, she knows she`s the focus of the investigation. She wants to really leave it to the authorities, let them see what they come up with and then answer to it with her attorney.

GRACE: Leave it to the authorities. OK. That`s a good one since she refuses to say cooperate, Carmen. What about it, Hugo?

ST. GEORGE: She doesn`t have to, Nancy. She`s the accused.

GRACE: Yes, and it`s her daughter missing. Rodriguez?

HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I understand that Joe Baez is going in there every day or every other day to apprise her. It`s a difficult situation. I don`t know that we can insinuate anything from it. You would expect some other type of response.



CASEY ANTHONY: My daughter`s been missing for the last 31 days.

CINDY ANTHONY: I found my daughter`s car today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The smell that I smelled inside that car was the smell of decomposition.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I believe my daughter ran over something.

CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.

CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (DELETED) know where she`s at! Are you kidding me?



CINDY ANTHONY: My husband`s a deputy sheriff. Years ago, he was a homicide investigator, as well. And the first thing he thought was human decomposition. I`m a nurse. I thought human decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lee Anthony says Casey claimed she first noticed the smell on June 5.


LEE ANTHONY, UNCLE OF MISSING TODDLER: She said it started around that time when two dead squirrels crawled up under the hood of the car, you know, and they died in there.


GRACE: Out to Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert joining us out of Raleigh. Ben, it`s great to have you back on. What do you make of this problem the police now have, these dead zones where they can`t determine where Casey Anthony is for hours on end?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, it`s kind of amazing, Nancy, isn`t it, that the best thing the defense has is that their client constantly made phone calls, so we constantly knew where -- where Casey Anthony was, and there`s only a three-hour period over four days that we don`t know where she was? That`s pretty amazing.

GRACE: Yes, but there were three different times that she goes radio- silent. Tell me what your analysis was of her calls, Ben.

LEVITAN: Well, I was just shocked at the sheer volume of calls that Casey Anthony made. There was a one-hour period of time at 8:00 o`clock in the morning where she sent 66 text messages.



CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car, full of maggots it stunk so bad.

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: There was an overpowering smell. I`ll admit that.

C. ANTHONY: There was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. No odor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have forensic evidence that has been returned to us regarding the vehicle. Preliminary information indicates that there is decomposition in that vehicle from a human body.

C. ANTHONY: Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.

G. ANTHONY: Maybe my daughter ran over something.

C. ANTHONY: The hair samples don`t mean anything. If we continue to, you know, look at evidence that hasn`t been verified, you guys are going to put Caylee in a coffin, because eventually something is going to happen to her if we don`t find her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found hair samples in the trunk of the car that was similar in length and color to that of Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information that we`ve got back from the FBI lab indicating that, you know, that she was in the trunk of that car and that`s she`s dead, certainly is information we take very seriously.

G. ANTHONY: The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s car is not my granddaughter.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Grandparents, George and Cindy Anthony, insisting the little girl is still alive. The searches go on, including the murky waters of the Econ River, and tonight we learn detectives go back to the car, and four months later, it wreaks of human decomposition.

We are taking your calls live.

I want to talk about the dead zone for one more moment. Detectives over the barrel. They`re in a bad spot, because, apparently, cell phone towers dropped for hours on end mom Casey`s signal around the time little Caylee goes missing.

Ben Levitan with us, telecommunications expert out of Raleigh.

Again, tell me your analysis of her telephone calls and texting.

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, Nancy, I have looked at four days of her records around June 16th, and I found that this is a woman who slept about three to four hours a night, based on when she sent her last text message and when she sent her first text message in the morning.

She was getting up at 8:00 in the morning and sending 60 text messages. She averaged 12 an hour. You`d think a mom would wake up first thing in the morning and up and take care of her child.

Now all we have is three hours that she wasn`t using the phone. So it`s not a dead zone, Nancy. Let`s call it a period of inactivity, which is perfectly normal with people who own cell phones.

GRACE: But if your cell phone is turned on, wouldn`t the tower be able to pick it up?

LEVITAN: Yes, it would, Nancy. But the only information that`s been released that I have, the only forensic evidence, indicates when calls were placed or when she received calls, or when text messages were sent or received.

We do not have further technical data that says that her phone was actually off or in an area where she couldn`t receive a signal. We have not seen that.

GRACE: And at the most, to Sergeant Scott Haines, sheriff`s office with Santa Rosa County, Florida, at the most, we`ve got a three-hour stretch. How far can you go in three hours?

Let`s see, 60 times 3, 180, that`s 90 miles one way, 90 miles back. But on those days, Sergeant Haines, June 17th, 18th and 19th, she can be placed at other locations during the day which would preclude her from driving 90 miles anywhere.

So how bad do these dead zones really hurt police?

SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL.: I don`t think they hurt them that bad. Any area has dead zones. The ping locates within a few miles. So -- and when they overlap, they can triangulate, so that can be narrowed down.

There is always going to be dead zones if the phone is off, it`s not going to ping. So they`re still looking for a very close proximity and I don`t think it`s going to hurt them that bad with all the other evidence that they have.

GRACE: Let`s take a further look at it, to Dr. Jeff Gardere, psychologist, and author. Dr. Gardere, what does it mean behaviorally the fact that, as Levitan tells us, she is texting 60, 70 times an hour and suddenly she goes radio-silent for extended periods of time when Caylee goes missing?

JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "LOVE PRESCRIPTION": Yes, it tells me that there is a possibility that she was having some sort of a manic episode, something traumatic may have happened that we think she probably may have been part of.

This is a young woman who is desperate, who is confused, but there was something going on, something catastrophic going on with her emotionally at that time.

GRACE: To change that behavior.

Joining me right now, Michael Gast, he is the president and founder of National Academy of Police Diving, he is also a training -- a trainer.

Mr. Gast, it`s great to have you with us. What is your analysis of the dive search of the Econ River down there in Florida?

MICHAEL GAST, FOUNDER & PRESIDENT, TRAINER, NATIONAL ACADEMY OF POLICE DIVING: Well, every search requires the people that are involved to be systemic and thorough. And that means if they`re a team they need to be people that work together.

When you cover an area, you need to be able to be concise in what you`re searching for, and give up an area that`s not in it.

GRACE: Does it matter if you`re searching at day or nighttime?

GAST: For the diver, it really doesn`t, if the visibility in the bottom, turbidity, as such that you can`t see anything anyways. But in the daytime, it`s better for safety. That people on the surface can tend to any emergencies that come up a lot more efficiently.

GRACE: And also, isn`t it true that in the daytime a little bit of light filters down?

GAST: Most of the time that is true. But sometimes the turbidity can be such that it`s just zero visibility.

GRACE: How much does the silt on the bottom of the river confuse things for the divers?

GAST: Well, it depends on how badly they stir it up. If it`s a river, it`s obviously flowing. So if they address the turbidity or the silt coming up as they move into the water, it`s going to be going behind them, so they`ll be hitting fresh bottom each time.

GRACE: And, everybody, with me, Michael Gast, the president and founder of National Academy of Police Diving. These people are actually diving amongst alligators. Thoughts?

GAST: Well, it`s just something you need to be cautious with. Alligators tend to want to stay away from people moving in the water with them. They do have tell-tale signs as far as when they`re aggressive and when they`re not. But you need to, obviously, have people watching out for any cruising through the area.

GRACE: Also joining me Mark Smith, polygraph expert and he is the VP in New Jersey Polygraphists.

Sir, thank you very much. Question: if you take two polygraphs off one person, can you fail one and pass another with the same questions?


GRACE: Why is that?

SMITH: Because if someone is telling the truth, they`re going to come up every time they`re tested as truthful. If they`re not, they`re going to come up deceptive.

GRACE: And what if someone is a habitual violator -- habitual liar?

SMITH: That`s a common myth. Habitual liars are just good liars, but it has no effect on the polygraph. I`ve never seen that in any of the cases I`ve run.

GRACE: You mean it would have no effect on the polygraph?

SMITH: Someone who is a habitual liar means they lie a lot. It doesn`t mean that they can control the physiology in their body that`s going to happen when they lie.

GRACE: How do you beat a polygraph?

SMITH: I don`t think you can. You can be trained maybe to meditate or something like that, or disassociate yourself from your body, but it would be extremely, extremely difficult.

GRACE: I agree with you. I agree with you. I think the trick is in the questions asked.

Everyone, with me an expert, Mark Smith, with New Jersey Polygraphists. Joining me right now by phone, Tim Miller with EquuSearch.

Hi, Tim.


GRACE: You`re calling in to make a point. Tell me.

MILLER: Well, I mean, the point is, there`s been so much negative stuff going around here, and so much -- and you know what, I think that all in all, little Caylee has touched and broken every heart in America.

And you know, once in a while we have different personalities, we`ve got different attitudes, and unfortunately they clash at times, and then we lose our focus. And I`m just begging everybody to get their focus back on this little girl. And it`s all about Caylee.

Not about anything else. So let`s get our emotions back together and let`s get our focus back together and find this little girl.

GRACE: Tim, Tim, I got to tell you something. I would feel the same way that you`re feeling right now when I was trying cases. When you`re there with the victim`s family, and you`re working day and night, back-breaking hours, it is so hard.

And I know you, Tim Miller. You`re a crime victim yourself after the murder of your daughter. And I know that every case you handle brings that back up in some way or another. I know you went down at least eight times in the search for Natalee Holloway.

Will EquuSearch continue in the effort to find Caylee?

MILLER: You know, the positive thing that came out of Caylee that nobody really knows, Nancy, is we`ve gotten over 85 brand-new Texas EquuSearch members in Orlando that`s going to continue searching on weekends on a smaller scale.

And I told Cindy Anthony the other day, I said, you know what, one day you will realize that Caylee`s disappearance wasn`t in vain, because we are getting new members together, a whole new chapter together down here, and it`s not -- if it happens, it`s when it`s happened.

There will be people here to hit the ground running, so no parent will be alone when their child is missing.

GRACE: Well, Tim.

MILLER: Through all the bad, Nancy, that we`ve learned and, you know what, we`re more prepared for the next one.

GRACE: Tim, I know that there has been a lot of stones thrown and a lot of infighting. But you`re always welcome here. I know where your heart is. And I want to thank you for calling in.

Everybody, we`ll be right back.


LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: My mother and father told me that my dad actually drove the car back because my mother was talking about how she didn`t know how my dad survived it because the smell was so bad.






UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We went from planning a wedding to a funeral. And it`s just the same nightmare every day you wake up.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A fiancee desperate for help, speaking out after her future husband brutally gunned down.

Naval Lieutenant Todd Cox went for a walk with his family. Out of nowhere, a pickup truck pulls up, a gunman walks up to Todd and fires at point blank range, hitting Todd multiple times.

The brutal murder, right in front of his own fiancee and family. Now, his fiancee begs for just one tip, so justice is served.


GRACE: Just one tip. That`s all we need.

To Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL" here on Headline News just before our show.

Jane, please tell me what happened. Is there any break in the case here? This is a tragedy.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": It`s a horrific tragedy, and Nancy, there are promising developments to the story. And frankly, it`s thanks to you. The fiancee of this murdered naval hero had become increasingly frustrated and desperate and scared over the months, because she said she just wasn`t getting any answers from the local authorities.

And this was a particularly gruesome execution-style slaying.

GRACE: Right in front of the children.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right in front of the children, this guy pumps five bullets into this naval officer, and then doesn`t say a word, doesn`t take anything, gets in the pick-up truck and drives off.

This happened near her home. So she`s scared, at times, to go back her house. She`s terrified. So in desperation, she contacts you, you put the story on the air last Friday, and miracle of miracles, what a coincidence, she is now getting full cooperation from the police.

She has met with them. They assure this is an active investigation and they are pursuing all leads.

GRACE: To Megan McGuire, this is Lieutenant Todd Cox`s fiancee. Megan, it is so great to have you with us again. The children were right there with you, taking a walk with the family dog. How are they responding to what they witnessed?

MEGAN MCGUIRE, LT. TODD COX`S FIANCEE, DAD & NAVAL OFFICER SHOT IN COLD BLOOD: They`re doing well. They`re all in counseling. They are -- I mean, I guess kids are a little more resilient, you know, than adults. So they`re doing well.

GRACE: Tell me about the break in the case. What do we know?

MCGUIRE: Actually, as far as any break in the case, I really don`t have any information on that. I was told that, obviously, that it is an active case, that they are making progress on it.

GRACE: They are making progress? Do they have a person of interest or a suspect?

MCGUIRE: I know that several months ago they had mentioned a person of interest or, you know, were following up on some leads. But as far as specific information, I don`t have any of that.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Hugo Rodriguez and Carmen St. George.

Hugo out in Miami, this was in cold blood. There wasn`t a fight leading up to it, it wasn`t an accident, the guy gets out of the car and guns down an American military man in front of his children.

HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FMR. FBI AGENT: Obviously, from someone who`s either done this in the past or was calculated and planned. This was some type of a hit. They obviously knew the victim. They obviously possibly knew where they were at. And just went to him. It wasn`t random. I think it was calculated.

GRACE: And Carmen St. George, you know what that means, that is death penalty country.

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, Nancy. And I definitely would agree that it`s targeted and specific. Unless there`s some sort of misidentification that they thought he was someone else or.

GRACE: But that wouldn`t be a defense. I meant to murder somebody else, but I got him instead?

ST. GEORGE: Not a defense at all.

GRACE: That will help.

ST. GEORGE: Not a defense, but I`m just saying, in terms of investigating this crime, it looks like somebody was out to get him specifically, or if it was somebody else that he was misidentified, then that`s a different story. But this is definitely not a random act.

GRACE: To Jane Velez-Mitchell -- Jane, why had the case sat stymie for so long?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they just don`t have that much information. They didn`t get a good description of the perpetrator because the fiancee, understandably -- first of all, he heroically pushed her to the ground, the murdered man, before he was gunned down to get her out of the way.

She was on the ground, curled up in a ball, with her hands over her face. The kids hid behind a tree, so they didn`t get a good description. And then this guy drove off. He didn`t say anything, he didn`t take anything. So that`s the problem.

GRACE: Back to Megan McGuire, Lieutenant Todd Cox`s fiancee.

Everybody, just let me tell you right off the top, the tip line is 888-562- 5887. 888-LOCK- U-UP. There`s a $4,000 reward.

Megan McGuire, that night you didn`t get a good look at the guy?

MCGUIRE: No, I didn`t.


MCGUIRE: When we were walking down the street, we were on the sidewalk and the truck drove down the street on my right. I just glanced over. We just glanced at one another.

GRACE: What about the vehicle? What did the vehicle look like?

MCGUIRE: It was a white Ford F-150 with a green stripe down the side. A two-tone truck, probably a mid -- early to mid `90s model.

GRACE: OK. Let me put that out there. A mid `90s white and green Ford F- 150 pickup. Maybe you have the answer to this mystery.

Right now, "CNN HEROES."


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Heroes.

SHAQUILLE O`NEAL, NBA SUPERSTAR: The message would be a very disturbing thing. I don`t really think a lot of women know what to do.

My name is Shaquille O`Neal, my hero is Karen Earl. She helps and keeps women out of domestic violence situations.

KAREN EARL, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: My friend brought me to Jenesse Center. She said, Karen, they need volunteers. I never knew that there were shelters that were safe houses. And I thought about, you know, my mom.

I remember us having to run out of the house at midnight with sheets wrapped around us. I know the impact it had on my mom, and of course impact on me and my siblings. So I volunteered and I never left.

And in `97, I became the executive director.

O`NEAL: The Jenesse Center is a comprehensive center. You can bring your children. They`ll help you get back on your feet.

EARL: We have more than 100 beds where the women and their children can stay for two years. We started something that we call healing through art. We try to work with that particular family to help them express what it is that they`re feeling.

O`NEAL: Miss Earl is a tireless, fearless woman. She`s helping those in need. You get the presidential clap from me.

ANNOUNCER: Vote now,

CNN Heroes is sponsored by.



GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and more important the people who touched our lives.


JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: Do what you have to do for that. You have to shake your ass, that`s all you have to do. If I could shake my ass for 50,000 baht, I`d shake my ass.

GRACE: The women you see judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot snugged up in that hotel room with are college students there in Thailand. He is trying to talk them into going to the Netherlands, his birthplace, to be dancers and models, translation, hookers.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The body of a former "American Idol" contestant was found just outside the home of "Idol" judge Paula Abdul. Police have confirmed that the woman was found dead inside her car just yards away from Abdul`s home.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you mean to tell me that if someone`s watching you walk out of your house, maybe we should put them behind bars.


RIPKA: . in case they`re a psycho and going to kill somebody?

GRACE: But if somebody is there every day, at all hours of the day and night, with a mental history, you`re darn right, they need to be put behind bars and maybe Selena and John Lennon would still be alive today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe a break in the disappearance of Caylee Anthony. It`s a swampy river basin area where police have found what appeared to be possibly the remains of little Caylee Anthony.

KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: What they thought were bones were actually two rocks. One was smaller than the other. I saw the larger one. It was sort of diamond-shaped. But again, they were saying it had nothing to do.

GRACE: No connection with Caylee.


GRACE: Tonight, let`s remember Army Specialist Mary Jaenichen, 20, Temecula, California, killed Iraq. A military police officer, she wore the same brass medallion as her father when he served in Operation Desert Storm.

Always thought of others first, loved the beach, spending time with friends, handing out comic books to Iraqi children. Leaves behind parents Alfred and Julieta, two brothers, two sisters.

Mary Jaenichen, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially you for being with us. And a special good night from the New York control room.

Night, Brett, Liz, Stacy, Evil.

Tonight, good night from friends of the show from Ivy League Philadelphia Wharton University, Naomi, Marina, Dan, Tyler Ronnie, Andrea, Nicole. What a fine bunch.

Welcome back, sweet Naomi.

Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp eastern. And until then, good night, friend.