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Nancy Grace
Anthony Grandparents Call Off News Conference as Attorney Quits
Aired November 20, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen 22 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Orange County police announce they are no longer looking for a live Caylee. Does that mean they`ve stopped pursuing alleged sightings of the little girl? And tonight, investigators drop a bomb. The FBI confirms Caylee is dead. And a high-profile lawyer representing grandparents George and Cindy Anthony walks off the job. That`s right, he quits. He only says he worked with grandparents George and Cindy if he could search for Caylee without restrictions. Apparently, that didn`t happen. As we go to air, the Anthonys call off the so-called blockbuster press conference where they promised to reveal evidence proving Caylee`s alive, but why?
And tonight, a deeper look inside the Anthony home. We`ve now learned mom Casey`s movement, her actions, her behaviors in her first days after her release from jail. But tonight comes word of an eerie and haunting song the tot mom listened to over and over and over again after Caylee goes missing, a song about leaving another soul behind, a song about the pain she, the tot mom, is suffering. Tonight, where is Caylee?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl!
I need to find her!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Orange County sheriff`s office spokesperson says FBI evidence proves that little Caylee is dead.
CARLOS PADILLA, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF`S SPOKESMAN: You look at the evidence that the child is alive, there is none.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Orange County authorities say they have stopped following up on all live sighting tips and have no reason to search for a living, breathing Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Padilla says they are confident that FBI lab tests on evidence found in her mother`s car prove that Caylee is dead. That finding, he says, is backed up by the grand jury`s murder indictment of her mother, Casey Anthony.
CARLOS PADILLA: We cannot continue to look when we don`t have any evidence whatsoever to indicate that she`s alive.
CINDY ANTHONY: Caylee is not dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s living in total denial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, the mystery surrounding 23-year-old mom Stacy Peterson vanishing, upscale Chicago suburbs, husband/cop Drew Peterson the prime suspect in his fourth wife`s disappearance, the suspicious bathtub drowning of wife number three officially ruled homicide.
Bombshell. Just moments ago, a judge drops -- repeat, drops -- all existing gun charges against the former cop. But a secret grand jury reportedly set to hand down murder charges against Peterson in the death of wife number three. All the while, the former cop making plans to divorce wife number four, insisting she left her own children for another man and that she remains in hiding. Right!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Just moments ago, an Illinois judge totally dismissing felony gun charges against Drew Peterson after Will (ph) County prosecutors refuse to turn over their documents, the judge ruling moments earlier the defense had a right to see the documents, the judge even warning prosecutors if they didn`t turn the documents over, he`d have to drop the charges.
More developments in Drew Peterson. A new law just approved by the Illinois state legislature could be a crucial break in the case for prosecutors in the Drew Peterson investigation, the new provision allowing previously barred hearsay testimony to come into court if the prosecution can prove the defendant is responsible for the witness not being able to testify.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a very powerful tool. No longer can someone terrorize a woman, threaten to kill her, physically abuse her. And if she relates this information to a third party, literally, she can testify from the grave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the case of Stacy Peterson, a minister alleged Stacy said Drew Peterson was involved in the death of his previous wife. This statement could enter into a possible trial. In the case of Kathleen Savio, she wrote a letter to the prosecutor that said Peterson would take her children away or kill her instead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It may have some small effect that there may be small pieces of evidence, some statements that one of -- Kathy or Stacy made to some friend or family member that may potentially be admissible because of this law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (SINGING): You`ll never know how much I love you...
CARLOS PADILLA: Tragically, we are confident that this child is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In some of their strongest language yet, a spokesman for the lead agency in the search for Caylee Anthony says any hopes of finding her alive are false hopes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search for a live child is over?
CARLOS PADILLA: It`s over. It`s over. You know, we did everything we could, you know, a lot of man hours, a lot of resources.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The grand jury has concluded that little Caylee is deceased and their daughter has been indicted in her death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her grandfather, George Anthony, said law enforcement has given up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you still confident, reaching out to people, asking for donations, given the fact that some in law enforcement are saying, That aspect of the search, in our eyes, is over?
GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: Well, it`s unfortunate that law enforcement, the authorities have given up. That`s a shame. It really is.
CINDY ANTHONY: Until I know 100 percent where Caylee is at, I am not going to give up.
So forget about any evidence that has been...
There`s no concrete evidence of anything. There`s only circumstantial evidence. So show me proof.
Show me proof.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB. Am I to understand that the local authorities are now no longer pursuing sightings of Caylee?
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Yes, that`s right, Nancy. The biggest thing is, of course, Carlos Padilla from the Orange County`s sheriff`s office saying that they have given up all hope of finding little Caylee Marie Anthony alive whatsoever. They base that, of course, on what the FBI has come up with their evidence, and of course, the grand jury indictment handed up just a couple of months ago -- two months ago.
Also, spokesman Carlos Padilla says there`s really -- they`ve got to move on with their life. They have a record murder rate here in Orange County. They`ve got some unsolved cases to take care of. They have other fish to fry. So they`ve kind of given up any chance of finding Caylee Marie alive.
Also, another bombshell dropped today. Attorney Mark Nejame, the personal attorney for Cindy and George Anthony, says he`s out of here. He`s giving it up. So he`s no longer representing them, and a news conference scheduled for tomorrow has been called off.
GRACE: Take a listen to what Nejame had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK NEJAME, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY: If somebody wants to write to somebody or talk to somebody or appear somewhere or to challenge somebody, they all may be valid points but they need to go through your adviser. What`s the sense of having an adviser if you`re not going follow your adviser`s advice? And so I`ve got to respect that. And so somebody needs to get a new adviser or they need to handle their own matter.
If I`m providing service as an adviser and -- it does little good if my advice is not followed. I think any client has got a case should not be doing interviews.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Everybody, we`re taking your calls live. In addition to local authorities, calling off the search for a live Caylee -- that does not mean that volunteers, that Equusearch, that the psychics, that Padilla have gone home. They are still there searching. But local Orange County sheriff saying they are no longer looking for a live Caylee. This as the press conference is called off by the grandparents in which they were to announce blockbuster evidence that little Caylee is still alive. Their lawyer walks off the job.
Let`s unleash the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, prosecutor out of Atlanta, Peter Odom, defense attorney out of Atlanta, and Richard Herman, high- profile lawyer out of New York. What about it, Richard?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, what can I tell you here? Just because Padilla says, they call it off? I don`t know. It`s devastating to the defense...
GRACE: What did you just say? That doesn`t even make sense.
HERMAN: They said he was a spokesperson for the police department? Padilla?
GRACE: No.
HERMAN: How is he a spokesperson?
GRACE: No, no, no, no. A, that`s not what I asked you. And B, Padilla is not a spokesperson for the police department.
HERMAN: Please.
GRACE: OK, so let`s go to someone who can hear and interpret the question. Eleanor?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, I think the attorney left because, obviously, George and Cindy weren`t following the advice that he was giving them. And maybe he didn`t want to be involved in this press conference, and clearly, they were going against something he told them. However, remember, Nancy, whatever they`ve told him is attorney-client privilege and he cannot reveal that.
GRACE: I think the confusion, Richard -- you`re talking about Leonard Padilla. There is a Padilla that is the spokesperson for the sheriff`s, Carlos Padilla, all right? It`s not Leonard Padilla. But again...
HERMAN: Thank you.
GRACE: ... that`s not the original question. Peter Odom, the attorney walks off the job with the grandparents. He will not reveal any confidences, of course, but he does say when he was signed on, he was told he could look for Caylee without restriction, even if the outcome was a bad one. Apparently, that`s not what the grandparents want.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. And Nancy, remember, he`s a private attorney. He took on the job of representing them under conditions they apparently -- according to what Nejame said, they violated those conditions by going against his advice, and he has every right to walk off, particularly if his clients are being frustrating. There`s nothing to force him to stay.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Melissa in Indiana. Hi, Melissa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I`m just wondering why they`re searching in that one area and (INAUDIBLE) they got pings from her cell phone from all different places. Why couldn`t she have disposed of her in a dumpster or something like that?
GRACE: You know what? I couldn`t hear your question. Could you repeat the end of the question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pardon me?
GRACE: Could you repeat the end of the question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m wondering if she could have put her in a dumpster instead of where they`re searching where they have been searching and...
GRACE: What about it, Mark Williams? There`s been a lot speculation that she was, in fact, placed in a dumpster.
WILLIAMS: There was a dumpster close to the Amscot location where they found her car a couple of months ago. But thus far, nothing has been coming out of that dumpster, and that garbage has been dumped in the landfill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, WKMG: It`s a constant battle between the Anthonys and investigators all hoping to find little Caylee.
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m just going to be putting a call in to my attorney, so I kind of need to know where we need to go from here.
D`ONOFRIO: This is how Cindy and George Anthony spend most of their days, constantly on the phone, checking into tips that their granddaughter, Caylee, may still be alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D`ONOFRIO: George talked about his granddaughter in their back yard. It was once a spot where cadaver dogs alerted to the smell of a corpse.
GEORGE ANTHONY: To think about the days she`d go in her little cottage (ph), you know, and she`d ring the little doorbell, Ding-dong.
D`ONOFRIO: That sound rings in his ears, and so does the sound of his family when no one was being chased and heckled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Major developments in the search for little Caylee. Police come out and say the FBI has confirmed little Caylee is dead, this as grandparents George and Cindy insist she`s alive and that they`ve got evidence to prove it. Then why did they cancel their press conference in which they would reveal that evidence? This as their attorney, a veteran trial lawyer, walks off the case.
We are taking your calls live. Out to Jennifer in Utah. Hi, Jennifer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. We love you. My girls and I and my son, we watch you every single night.
GRACE: And I think I heard one in the background.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course, you did. She`s just dying to get on the phone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you, Nancy Grace.
GRACE: Hi, love. Thank you for calling in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Here`s my question. Number one, real quick. Padilla, I love you. I don`t care about your motives. The Anthonys should be kissing the feet of all these people that are out there helping. I just have a real quick question. Has Jose Baez asked for a change of venue? Do you think he will? And if so, when would something like this happen?
GRACE: Oh, that`s a good question. Number one, Padilla, apparently you do, in fact, have a fan club.
Back to the lawyers. Let`s see if they can be succinct this time. Richard Herman, I`m a little surprised that Baez, the defense attorney, has not asked for a speedy trial. After all, they`ve been whining about her being behind bars and she`s going to be proven innocent. And number two, change of venue. Rule number one, ask for a change of venue whether you get it or and not, and in this case, they probably will.
HERMAN: You`re right, Nancy. He should have made a motion for a change of venue.
GRACE: What is he doing?
HERMAN: But here`s the deal. If he makes the motion for a change of venue, he doesn`t get the speedy trial. That period extends. So I don`t know if he`s pushing for the speedy trial, it has to be done by April. If he makes the motion, it`ll be extended even further. But they don`t still have the manner or means of death in this first degree murder case. They`ve got a big problem here. This is not a slam dunk. And the science is junk science, Nancy. This is a very difficult case to prove.
GRACE: Yes, I remember when they used to say that about DNA and fingerprints.
HERMAN: How many air sample cases have you tried, Nancy?
GRACE: Zero.
HERMAN: Exactly.
GRACE: And before the `80s, I had never tried a DNA case, either. But guess what? It`s for real, Richard. Get used to it.
To Eleanor Dixon. What about it?
DIXON: Well, Nancy, first of all, it`s not junk science. This is good science and it`s good evidence.
GRACE: Yes.
DIXON: You know, what can I say about that?
HERMAN: It`s not going to be admissible.
DIXON: I think it`s going to be...
GRACE: OK. Ho-ho-ho-ho-ho-hold on. Hold on. Back to Herman. You know, Herman, I personally trained at Oak Ridge labs, and you`re not going to find a higher-tech laboratory in the country. It is phenomenal, and any judge in his or her right mind are going accept the air sample testing. Now, unless you know differently, instead of just sitting there throwing stones, unless you have a scientific or legal reason that this science is not going to be accepted, then you need to just shut your piehole.
HERMAN: There`s no level of trustworthiness of that test. You can ask Koby. I`ve discussed it with him over and over again.
GRACE: OK. You know what? I will ask Koby. Lawrence Kobilinsky, famed forensic scientist joining us, out of John Jay College of Criminal Justice. Koby has been on many, many high-profile cases, and he is a paid consultant in the Anthony defense team.
Now, Koby, I have you on record stating that you deeply respect the Oak Ridge, Tennessee, labs, including the so-called "body farm." This is an FBI report. And I also have you on record stating that you don`t know of any reason to distrust the FBI. You did mention a case several years ago that somewhat tarnished their reputation, in your mind, but that`s all you came up with.
LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, CONSULTANT FOR ANTHONY DEFENSE: Well, I have great respect for the FBI laboratory and I have great respect for the Oak Ridge laboratory. My concern is with the report on the air sampling.
GRACE: Why?
KOBILINSKY: In fact, let me quote right out of page 4 of that report. It says, "Common fluorinated compounds usually associated with human decomposition were not detected in the Florida trunk sample."
GRACE: And what about the next sentence, Koby?
KOBILINSKY: Yes. "It is possible"...
GRACE: Yes! Oh, yes, that next sentence.
KOBILINSKY: Yes, let me finish that. "It is possible"...
GRACE: Yes, let you start that because you weren`t going to mention that, were you.
KOBILINSKY: If you`d like me, let me -- let me read it.
GRACE: I`ll paraphrase it for you. I don`t have to read it.
KOBILINSKY: OK.
GRACE: It says Caylee was likely not old enough to have those chlorocarbons in her system, and therefore, they would not have been released.
KOBILINSKY: Well, they don`t know because they`ve never studied young people. But...
GRACE: And I`d like to refer you, Koby, to page 3, and I`m referring to the last paragraph. Out of 24 compounds...
KOBILINSKY: Right.
GRACE: ... found in mom Casey`s car, out of 24, 16 -- 67 percent of them...
KOBILINSKY: Right.
GRACE: ... are associated with human decomposition, not animal decomposition...
KOBILINSKY: Right.
GRACE: ... not spoiled meat from the grocery store, not a bad pizza, human decomposition.
KOBILINSKY: Well...
GRACE: Koby, respond.
KOBILINSKY: I will respond. Check page 10, where you will read the conclusions of the author of this report. And I will quote, "indicates that a portion of the total odor signature identified in the Florida vehicle trunk is consistent with the decompositional event that could be of human origin."
GRACE: And you said it yourself right there, Koby.
KOBILINSKY: OK.
GRACE: A portion -- a portion -- because 67 percent of the compounds in the trunk, the air compounds, are human decomposition, only human decomposition, nothing else.
KOBILINSKY: This report does not clearly indicate -- this is a preliminary report, don`t forget. I mean, there may be more.
GRACE: Sounds like to me somebody`s doing a little backstroke right about now.
KOBILINSKY: No, no, no. There may be more evidence, but this report does not indicate that this is a human decompositional event. It may be.
GRACE: OK. You know what? Let`s go to another source. What about it, Eleanor Dixon? Weigh in.
DIXON: Well, Nancy, of course, this isn`t junk science, as I already said, and it`s just one piece of the puzzle. There have been many scientific tests done in this car -- the odor of decomposition, the DNA tests on the hair with the death band, as well as -- oh, gosh, I forget the last thing, but there`s many things.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: This is very hard to come in now and...
D`ONOFRIO: But as Cindy showed us around...
CINDY ANTHONY: I just hung up from John Allen.
D`ONOFRIO: ... she and George went back and forth on the phone several times with the Orange County lead detective on the case, John Allen. The Anthonys want the sheriff`s office to help them look for the child alive, but investigators are convinced she`s dead, and the tension between both sides grows every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would think someone would want to be, quote, our "white knight" or our hero. If there`s a missing child out there, a missing person, everyone should be wanting to cooperate and just help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Today the attorney for grandparents George and Cindy Anthony walks off the job, this as the grandparents` press conference to announce the evidence that proves Caylee is alive is called off, and the sheriffs announce they are not looking for a live little girl anymore. When we come back, everyone, we`re going to be joined by Gale St. John, psychic detective who was there searching for little Caylee.
But right now to the lines. Joanne in Florida. Hi, Joanne.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, we love watching you. We watch every night. My question is, as sorry as I feel for George and Cindy, they have evidently fed (ph) this girl, letting her lie and go along with it.
GRACE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She couldn`t go to the authorities because she was afraid for the baby. What about going to her parents, who love that baby more than anything?
GRACE: Excellent question. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers." Weigh in.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, I think Joanne`s right, and what she`s point out and what we`ve seen with Mark Nejame today is that Cindy and George have adopted this radical, rigidified belief system that Zenaida Gonzalez took the baby. And the belief system is designed to ward off the fact that their daughter could possibly be a murderer. And now the belief system is extended to investigators and...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cindy told me Orange County detectives admitted to her the evidence they found in the car, the smell, the stain, the decomposition of human remains does not prove Caylee is dead or that Casey is a killer, and they`re angry the sheriff`s office has apparently rushed to judgment by shutting down the search for Caylee.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Elizabeth Smart, the police department there thought that she was dead, but yet they followed up and brought Elizabeth home to Ed Smart.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: (INAUDIBLE) Emotions just take over sometimes. You believe your child. You put faith in and everything, you know? I wouldn`t wish this for anyone.
This is a tough day for us. Think about wanting to turn your own child in for whatever it might be, it`s hard. It`s quiet, the house is just too quiet. Just tears me apart.
Whenever these sightings come through and photos on are taken of a child that could possibly be my granddaughter I get excited, my hopes are out there. And if it`s not, they get to play a little bit.
My focus is always on my granddaughter, it always will be. I love my daughter. I love my wife, I love my son.
I would give my life right this second to have her be dropped off in front of all of us. I would do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Do you blame them? Listen to her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
C. ANTHONY: Finish your song.
CAYLEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S DAUGHTER: Are you tired, papa?
C. ANTHONY: Are you tired, Papa?
G. ANTHONY: I`m tired.
C. ANTHONY: I didn`t know you had (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Do you blame the Anthonys for believing? For wanting to believe that she`s alive?
To Jessica D`Onofrio with WKMG, what more can you tell us after your exclusive tour of the Anthony home and all the time you spent with them.
JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WKMG: Well, one of the things that I asked them out in the backyard was where is Lee? We haven`t seen him in quite some time. He was a fixture in this case from day one. He was out here very close, standing right by his parents, standing right by Casey every day, and the answer that I got from George and Cindy conflicted a little bit.
George said that he is right now trying to make a living. He lost two months` worth of income, just dedicating his time to this case. Now Cindy kind of interrupted him and said oh, he`s traveling right now. He`s traveling and George seemed to indicate that Lee is somewhere working here in downtown Orlando.
So it`s a little unclear, but there are some rumblings that something else might be up -- is a reason for his absence.
GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, what do you know about that?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, SEARCHING FOR CAYLEE: I don`t know anything about it. Haven`t seen or heard from Lee since we were there back in August and have not discussed it with either Cindy or George since then, so I have no knowledge of anything.
GRACE: But when you were there, Lee was a staunch supporter of mom Casey.
PADILLA: He was -- he was definitely behind her all the way to the point where several times he just out and lied to us, but we didn`t call him on it, we just kind of let it slide to see what the purpose of the lies were, and subsequently amongst ourselves we decided that he would do anything to defend his sister.
He just wasn`t going to give up any information that would help law enforcement regarding her.
GRACE: Out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, the presser, the grandparents had promised in which they would reveal the evidence that proves Caylee is alive called off abruptly, what happened?
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: They basically said in light of recent developments and things that have happened that it was unnecessary to have the press conference. You know that press conference was supposed to be where they unveiled the tips and new information that proved that Caylee was alive.
They also backed off that. They said that there was no hard evidence that Caylee was definitely alive, but they wanted to get, you know, people together to let them know why they were still looking for Caylee, but again, that has been called off.
GRACE: Joining me right now the president and founder of Texas EquuSearch. He has team members still searching for Caylee. You all know Tim Miller.
Tim, thank you for being with us tonight. Tim, the sheriff`s office has announced they are no longer looking for a live Caylee and they are not following up on sightings of her, alleged sightings of her.
How does that jive with your search?
TIM MILLER, PRESIDENT, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH, TEAM MEMBERS SEARCHING FOR CAYLEE: Well, you know, I -- met with the Anthonys and we agreed to disagree, and I said I would not support their efforts in searching for a live Caylee, but I would respect their efforts and I -- I personally today feel as though Caylee will probably never be found alive or dead and the chances are very, very, very small, Nancy, that she`ll be found dead, but it`s better dead than alive.
I mean, it`s just been a huge strain on that family, a huge strain on that community, and you know, I think it`s time to sit back and, you know, let the prosecutors do what they`re doing. We`re going to continue doing small searches on the weekend. We cannot put huge efforts in it anymore.
GRACE: Right. Because you guys have been there so much and have conducted such extensive searches. One searcher is still there amongst the others, Gale St. John, psychic detective and host of "The Body Hunter." She is still actively searching for little Caylee.
Gale, you are there in Orlando right now. Tell me what your group is doing.
GALE ST. JOHN, PSYCHIC DETECTIVE, SEARCHING FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: We`re searching some very specific areas right now. We happen to be in the northern half of the Orange County area.
GRACE: Gale, when you and your team members have had visions or vibrations about where Caylee may be, is it ever a live Caylee?
ST. JOHN: You know I`d like to say it is, but it`s not been, at least not for me which is disappointing. I have grandchildren and it breaks my heart.
GRACE: With me Gale St. John, psychic detective, and host of "The Body Hunter," still there searching for little Caylee. You told me where you`ve been searching most recently. Why that area? What led you there?
ST. JOHN: Well, we`ve had some tips in that area as well and some of the things that we`re finding right now are very similar to some of the visions that we`ve had and so we are now.
GRACE: Really?
ST. JOHN: . checking out some of those areas.
GRACE: Such as?
ST. JOHN: Well, it is in the area where there is water and trees and a specific type of flowers that we`ve been looking for which is important. We are not ready to disclose the location at this time because we -- today we are only about 50 percent of the area was cleared. So we`re going continue tomorrow to finish this area. It`s a vast area.
GRACE: To Tom Shamshak, former police chief and current private investigator joining us out of Boston, Tom, it`s great to see you. You know, Tom, a lot of people don`t believe in psychics, but -- and I`m a naysayer myself, but there have been cases where they have found bodies, they have found people alive that were missing.
TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Absolutely correct, Nancy. Good evening. I certainly believe in the use of thinking outside the box and involving people like psychics. Don`t leave any stone unturned and they may generate something, but this really is a very difficult chore that is ahead of law enforcement.
GRACE: It is. You know, Tom Shamshak, at this point -- Tom Shamshak, private investigator out of Boston. At this point of the search anything goes, anybody and everybody, all hands on deck.
And back to Lawrence Kobilinsky. Dr. Kobilinsky, what about clothing? If the little girl`s clothing were found this much later what would you expect to find?
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, CONSULTANT TO CASEY ANTHONY DEFENSE TEAM: Well, I mean, there might be some important evidence in or on the clothing. First of all, how do we know.
GRACE: How would the clothing be degenerated?
KOBILINSKY: Well, it could very well be being exposed to the environment and, you know, it`s been many months since the child was reported missing. It could be shredded. Animals could have ripped the clothing apart if it`s an outdoor situation.
You may lose a lot of information, but there may be DNA on the garment that would tie it to a particular person. That`s a possibility.
GRACE: Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky joining us from John Jay College of Criminal Justice.
Very quickly, case alert. The search of a suspect in the murder of a beautiful little 9-year-old girl in Chicago. Take a look.
Mya Lyons stabbed to death July 18th in an alleyway yards from her home. A person of interest questioned and released. A knife discovered at the scene. Police say the location leads them to believe someone did see what happened. There is a $6,000 reward.
Look at this little girl. If you have information please call Chicago police 312-747-8271.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Peterson, off the hook on gun charges tonight. Just moments ago an Illinois judge totally dismissing felony gun charges against Drew Peterson.
A new state law was overwhelming approved by the Illinois House allowing so-called hearsay evidence from witnesses who may have been murdered by a defendant trying to stop them from testifying.
This means prosecutors have a new weapon in the investigation into Drew Peterson who has been named a suspect in the disappearance of his fourth wife Stacy. A minister has said Stacy told him Drew Peterson had killed his third wife Kathleen Savio whose death is now being called a homicide by authorities.
State`s attorney Glasgow(ph) says the new law is very powerful and was passed with the intention of helping women who had been abused.
JOEL BRODSKY, ATTORNEY FOR DREW PETERSON: Obviously, we`re very pleased. We believe that, you know, the only real reason that the state would have not wanted to turn over the documents is because they would have helped us, otherwise, if they would have been of no help they would have gladly turned them over and we believe the judge assessed the proper sanction which is dismissal and the case, we`re confident that if the state chooses to appeal will be upheld and this case will be over with.
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GRACE: News flash, it`s not going to be upheld. The judge, Judge Richard Schoenstedt had a little hair fit in court today because the prosecution would not do what he told them to, but the prosecutors don`t work for the judge any more than the defense does.
So when the prosecutor is told by the judge hand over your whole file, your work product, everything, all your direct examination questions you`ve prepared, your scientific arguments, the outline of your opening statement, hand it over right now and the prosecution says no and what did the judge do? He dropped all the charges against Drew Peterson.
Now, that`s a fine kettle of fish, Judge Richard Schoenstedt.
Out to the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, Peter Odom, Richard Herman, I`m coming right back to you, but first to Joe Hosey with the "Herald News," author of "Fatal Vows" in court today.
Joe, what happened?
JOE HOSEY, REPORTER, HERALD NEWS, IN COURT TODAY: Like you said, Nancy, the judge dropped the charges. He ordered the prosecutors to turn over internal documents, memoranda and the like so that they could establish whether or not this is a vindictive prosecution and the Assistant State Attorney John Conner refused to do so.
He risked going to jail himself for doing that. He could have been held in contempt and the judge decided to dismiss the case.
GRACE: You know what? I hope my path crosses with John Conner some day. I want to shake his hand.
To you, Eleanor Dixon, current felony prosecutor in Atlanta, that is complete BS, you cannot force the state to hand over their work product. When I say work product, I`m talking about your legal research. Everything you`ve done on the case, your interview notes with your witnesses.
The defense doesn`t have a right to that any more than the state has a right to the defense notes. What the answer should have been, Eleanor, in my mind, correct me if you think differently, is for Judge Richard Schoenstedt to get off his bench and review the file himself.
See if there`s evidence to support a genuine prosecution or if this is selective prosecution of Drew Peterson. Right or wrong?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: You`re exactly right, Nancy. They can take it in chambers, look at it, do what`s called an (INAUDIBLE) inspection. And you know what, I bet he didn`t ask the defense attorney to turn over his work product.
GRACE: You know this is a blow to the state, but from my understanding, to Derek Armstrong, author of "Drew Peterson Exposed," hours of interviews with Peterson. Derek, I understand that the grand jury is about to hand down a murder charge on wife number three, Kathleen Savio, who drowned in a dry bathtub covered in bruises.
I guess you saw that autopsy report.
DEREK ARMSTRONG, AUTHOR OF "DREW PETERSON EXPOSED": Yes, I believe they are. I have an inside source whose indicated to me that if charges weren`t filed today or the indictment didn`t come down today they would imminently be coming down.
GRACE: Richard Herman, try to take off your defense hat just for a moment. You know a judge cannot order the state to hand over its entire file to the defense or vice versa.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there is open file discovery, Nancy, and they were claiming.
GRACE: Not in that jurisdiction.
HERMAN: They were claiming a vindictive prosecution.
GRACE: There`s not open file in that jurisdiction, OK? Number one, so let`s get off that incorrect premise, but go ahead.
HERMAN: The issue is whether or not it was a vindictive prosecution.
GRACE: Right.
HERMAN: . against Peterson which it absolutely was and as a result of that, the judge made a direction which the district attorney chose to not comply with. That`s OK. He`s not going appeal the case. It`s not.
GRACE: Yes, they are.
HERMAN: It`s not dismissed with prejudiced. They can bring it back.
GRACE: They are appealing it. They are taking it up.
HERMAN: When they indict him for murder they`re going to add this in, too, and then they`ll turn over their documents down the road.
GRACE: Peter Odom?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The prosecution doesn`t work for the judge, Nancy, but the prosecution should be working for the people. This judge realized that the prosecution was doing something unfair to the people.
GRACE: Which was?
ODOM: Vindictively prosecuting Drew Peterson for this trial.
GRACE: I want to see Odom`s face.
ODOM: And such.
GRACE: Odom, do you really believe that?
ODOM: Yes, I do, and the judge had every right.
GRACE: Why? Why is it vindictive?
ODOM: . to ask for that file. And nothing shows that more clearly, Nancy, than the fact that they wouldn`t turn over the file.
GRACE: Peter, when you were prosecuting, did you give open file to the defense?
ODOM: If the judge asked me to turn something over, Nancy, even if I didn`t like it.
GRACE: Typically would you? Would you?
ODOM: If the judge told me to turn something over, I would.
GRACE: No, SOP, standard operating procedure, unless you had a judge`s order, would you give open file, all your work product?
ODOM: Not only would I give open file work -- not work , not work product because that`s privileged, but open file discovery, yes, and I`d invite the defense attorney into my office to make.
GRACE: You just said if a judge told you to. How about when a judge didn`t tell you to?
ODOM: My notes, Nancy. No, no attorney would turn over notes in work product. However if a judge told me to do so I would have to even if I didn`t like it and the fact that they didn`t turn them over is suspect.
GRACE: With a judge -- you listen to every nut job judge down there on the Fulton County bench?
ODOM: That`s why they make.
GRACE: You think they know the law better than you? They`re appointed by the governor, all right? Just like every other jurisdiction and then maybe run for re-election some day.
Uh-uh, it`s on you to know the law and give it to the judge, not let some nut job tell you what the law is. Uh-uh.
Hold on. We`ll pick this back up.
Candace Aikin is Stacy Peterson`s aunt. Miss Aikin, thank you for being with us. What do you make of Peterson`s decision to divorce Stacy Peterson?
CANDACE AIKIN, STACY PETERSON`S AUNT: I think it`s kind of late for that. She wanted one like 13 months ago. So it`s kind of late for that now. I don`t think -- I don`t think she`s around to be able to divorce him.
GRACE: Why do you think he`s seeking a divorce at this juncture?
AIKIN: I`m really not sure what he`s thinking. Maybe -- I just -- I don`t know.
GRACE: To Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author, what do you make of it?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I think Drew Peterson, always in his own mind, thinks he comes off looking like the good guy.
So if he paints a picture to the public that his wife took off with another man, what is he going to do, ringing his hands, all he can do is file for divorce. It makes him look fantastic in a really miserable situation.
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ARMSTRONG: Do you think the story of this divorce might encourage Stacy to contact you?
DREW PETERSON, HUSBAND OF MISSING MOM STACY PETERSON: I have nothing more to say.
ARMSTRONG: What about the rumors that the state`s attorney is getting ready to indict for homicide on one of your wives?
PETERSON: I told you. Nothing to say.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . as far as a bill helping allow into court stories that Stacey told her minister that Peterson killed his third wife, Brodsky says the bill wouldn`t apply to that either.
BRODSKY: Well, that wouldn`t be hearsay, that would be double hearsay. That would be Drew that told Stacy told the pastor who told us. That`s double hearsay. Just, still doesn`t covered by the hearsay.
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GRACE: Hearsay is hearsay, Mr. Brodsky. Check out the law.
To Joe Hosey in court today with the "Herald News," is it true that when Judge Richard Schoenstedt dropped, the gun charges that Drew Peterson kissed his lawyer on the cheek and said I`m going to Disney Land?
HOSEY: He kissed them both. He kissed both Joel Brodsky and (INAUDIBLE).
GRACE: And?
HOSEY: Yes, it is true. And he had also said -- you know, he said I love these guys. Before that, he said I`m going to Disney Land. I think he had that all planned out. I think he probably knew how this was going to go.
GRACE: I`m sure Disney Land is so proud of that endorsement.
Out to the lines, Mercedes in Michigan. Hi, Mercedes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks for taking my call. I love your twins. We need more picture.
GRACE: Oh you`ll get them. I`ll get them for you online. What`s your question, love?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh good. I`ve been watching the Drew Peterson thing for a long time and I never miss your show. I don`t even go shopping anymore at night. I just come home to see your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And yes. And all with Caylee and everything, too, and with Drew Peterson, though, who in their right mind would believe him, saying that she would run off and leave the kids behind? Because even in a custody fight, the kids -- she would come back and kidnap them. She loved those kids so much.
GRACE: Bethany Marshall, do you think anybody would really believe that?
MARSHALL: No, and when you really understand the pattern of domestic abuse that leads to domestic homicide, the man is always belittling the woman, belittling her motherhood, her personhood, every aspect of her character.
GRACE: So I guess that`s therapy talk for no, nobody is going to believe it.
Thank you, Dr. Bethany.
Let`s stop, everyone, and remember Army Sergeant John Kyle Dagget, 21, Phoenix, Arizona, killed Iraq. On a first tour, awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart, Army Service ribbon. Loved football, outdoors, hunting, fishing, camping rafting, volunteering at nursing homes.
Leaves behind parents Jack and Colleen, three sisters.
John Kyle Daggett, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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