Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Team Obama; Small Plane Conducts Emergency Landing in California; Inside the Pirates' Den; Interview with Howard Dean
Aired November 25, 2008 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: And hello there. Good afternoon, everybody. T.J. Holmes here at CNN NEWSROOM, sitting in today for Rick Sanchez, sitting in this week for Rick Sanchez here in this 3:00 hour.
We will start as we have started over the past several days, talking about the economy, talking about Barack Obama, who once again making announcements about his economic team today, but also making some statements about the possibility of what his stimulus package would look like.
He had talked about the stimulus package, a need for another one coming up later. One, a 175-plus billion dollars he was saying through campaign season, well, that one could explode to up to $700 billion worth of a stimulus package. You heard me right, another $700 billion possibly.
But he was talking today about the need for more stimulus. He was also talking today about we're not just needing to throw money at this problem. We need the money to go to the right places and to be doing the right things.
Here he is a little earlier today talking as he has been doing for the past several days out of Chicago at his transition office. Let's take a quick listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: We are going to have to jump-start the economy. And there's consensus that that requires a bold plan to make the investments in the future. But we have to make sure that those investments are wise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, Obama is not going as far as saying exactly how much he thinks this new stimulus package should be. Again like I mentioned, during the campaign, he was talking about $175-plus billion for another stimulus package.
He wants this package to go towards infrastructure, creating some more jobs, new, different ways of energy, things like that to help the economy, but, however, not saying how much. There are estimates out there saying it could be up to $700 billion now.
Let's also show you what happened today, an announcement about -- from the Fed, from Henry Paulson, the current Treasury secretary, telling us -- we will put up this graphic up for you -- asking for another -- or getting or infusing, injecting another $800 billion into the economic system.
Now, this money would be going towards consumer spending and home buying. This money would be going towards banks. This $800 billion is not something that needs to be coming from Congress or Congress needs to be approving. This comes from the Fed, also the New York Fed injecting some money.
Now, that is one thing we know, that $800 billion. Now, the $700 billion possibility from Barack Obama, his stimulus package which could be in place in time for him when he heads to the White House. That is the possible now. Again, some estimates saying it could be up to $700 billion, his stimulus package.
But, of course, in September, what did we see? Another economic stimulus package. That one was worth what? -- $700 billion. That is the bailout, the one that everybody knows about that Hank Paulson is now in charge of, that bank bailout that Congress approved.
So, what do you see? -- $800 billion, $700 billion, another $700 billion, all this money being thrown at the problem. However, Hank Paulson talking about it today and saying, hey, it is hard to get people to understand what we are doing here, but, trust us, we had to do this.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY PAULSON, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: The only way you can say it didn't work is if you magically thought you could just -- naively thought that there could be a piece of legislation and there would be a single action, and that a hundred -- one or twice-in-a-hundred-year historic situation would -- would immediately be resolved. That's not the kind of situation we're dealing with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: All right, there is Hank Paulson talking about this, saying, hey, you're going to have to trust us. It would have been a whole lot worse.
Now, a lot of people and a lot of investors, Wall Street seem to like Timothy Geithner, the man that Barack Obama has now tapped to be the new Treasury secretary. We saw that, yes, the markets liked it. The markets went up after the announcement came that he would be the guy tapped.
Let's listen to our Allan Chernoff now kind of comparing and contrasting Henry Paulson to the possible new guy, Timothy Geithner.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: At a time of economic crisis, president-elect Obama's pick of Timothy Geithner to be Treasury secretary is highly celebrated.
PROF. JEFF FRANKEL, HARVARD UNIVERSITY ECONOMIST: Tim Geithner is the right guy. I mean, he has long experience with dealing with financial crises.
CHERNOFF: "New York Times" columnist Thomas Friedman even suggested Geithner take over Treasury early.
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, "NEW YORK TIMES" COLUMNIST: We're supposed to sit around now for two months and wait for the new administration to get in position? This administration has kind of checked out.
CHERNOFF: That sentiment reflects frustration with current Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's flip-flopping through the financial crisis. Paulson lobbied hard for Treasury to gain $700 billion to buy troubled mortgages from bank, then abandoned the plan. That accelerated the crisis facing Citigroup, a major owner of mortgages, and helped force today's bailout of the bank. Geithner, economists say, should know better than to cause such uncertainty for the financial markets.
AMITY SHLAES, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Secretary Paulson was -- was making it up as he went along, wasn't very clear about the rules.
CHERNOFF: Another contrast: Paulson spent his career at Goldman Sachs, rising to chief executive. Geithner has no allegiance to any Wall Street firm. He's a product of the Treasury Department, where he spent years handling financial crises around the globe.
Even Secretary Paulson expressed admiration of Geithner saying today, "I have great confidence in his understanding of markets, his judgment, and leadership."
Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: And we want to turn now -- well, again, we have heard so much praise really of Geithner in the past several days about his experience, his background, and certainly his expertise. And we saw the markets go up after he was announced, but not everybody is sold on this pick.
Joseph Mason, he is a professor at LSU. He is on the phone with us now.
Sir, what is your beef, I guess, with Timothy Geithner being the guy?
JOSEPH MASON, BANKING PROFESSOR, LSU: Well, it is important to remember he was part of these failed bailout arrangements.
Paulson was the head guy, but Geithner was working there along with Paulson and Bernanke to coordinate these. He was taking great credit from that early on. Of course, he backed off some months ago to clean up his image, but, really, he represents more of the same.
HOLMES: More of the same. Do you think he has not -- and certainly no one is questioning whether or not these -- or he or Summers are capable guys, are smart guys, but some are questioning whether or not they have learned and will learn from their mistakes. Is that what you question as well?
MASON: Well, the issue is not have they learned and will they learn, as what do they know? We don't have time for a learning curve right here.
And the sad fact is that while we have great economists in the system, and we have great deal-makers in the system, we really have nobody in the U.S. system who has a knowledge of financial markets and institutions and the plumbing that goes along with it, the detailed institutional knowledge that is necessary to see their way through to the really fairly simple solutions to the crisis on the ground.
HOLMES: And you call them simple solutions, and certainly, I know what you mean by that, but certainly a big, complicated mess. But who would you say out there or what type of qualifications should one have? And, surely, you know, it seems at least that your voice is the minority out there, so there seems to be so much praise, if you will, for Geithner.
Yours seems to be a minority voice. Why is that, we don't hear more of a drumbeat along the lines of the things you are saying, and, again, what kind of qualifications should we be looking for?
MASON: Well, why you don't hear more is because the press is asking the wrong people. You ask the top-line people on Wall Street at the big bulge bracket investment banks, and they are certainly going to praise the current pick for Treasury secretary. They're not going to talk against that selection. That is for sure.
But, furthermore, it is important to remember they already put him in office at the New York Fed. Wall Street likes the guy, because he delivers, just like Paulson delivers the cash for the bulge bracket investment banks on Wall Street.
The people who don't like these selections are the second-tier banks, who stand to get nothing from TARP. They have already been boosted out. They have not gotten any assistance. They are the ones that have been severely harmed by these proposals and, of course, are left off of the map with these proposals.
But you asked what is needed, what qualities are needed. I think the premier quality that is needed in this appointment is somebody who is willing to say we are coming out of a bubble. We had a real estate bubble. We had a spending bubble based upon credit.
HOLMES: Right.
MASON: We don't need more credit. We don't need more bubble. We need stable, economic growth. But that means that we are going to see a retreat and we should not want to see those bubble market returns or that bubble market home price appreciation, because that will merely breed another bubble and a more painful pop.
HOLMES: Well, all right, Joseph Mason, sir, I am glad we were able to get you on the phone here and get you on the line and talk to you and hear your views. Again, one -- a viewpoint that you say and many might agree is not out there enough, another side, if you will, to Timothy Geithner and this appointment.
But, again, Mr. Mason, we appreciate your time today.
And certainly join -- or invite our viewers to join the conversation. As always, Rick invites you all here on his show to do so, on the Twitter board, on MySpace, also on Facebook.
We have got a response here already from someone talking about the appointment, saying: "I think it is a decent appointment. That said, not sure who would be better. The markets enjoyed it."
So, certainly, we did see that. The markets did enjoy when Timothy Geithner's name was announced.
We also want to keep our viewers and let them know what else we have going on in the show this hour. We have a couple of people with us here, joining us in this conversation here in studio with us, as we do oftentimes, Coby (ph), Joan (sic), and Frank, three just regular folks here to talk about a few issues we have today.
Hello to you all. We're going to be chatting with you in just a moment.
But, also to our viewers, we have a lot more coming up this hour, talking about more on the economy, talking with a writer from "Fortune" magazine about what we're seeing in the past couple days, all the money seems like is being thrown at the problem. He is coming up after the break, a whole lot more. Stay right here. The conversation continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. Welcome back, everybody.
Continuing with the economy here, if you have not heard, the word today is that $800 billion now going to be injected into the financial system. This is an additional $800 billion, this coming from Treasury and the Fed, also the New York Fed, putting this plan together.
This is going to go directly to the banks and this money therefore expected to help out the consumers, also businesses, many of whom have been having a hard time right now trying to get loans. Now, no word if this is going to be there in time and put in place and be functioning properly and well enough that it could help people during this holiday season and some of that gift buying and some of those big purchases. We don't know that, but, still, this money is supposed to help out directly to the consumers.
Let's bring in Telis Demos with "Fortune" magazine. Telis, this is another huge, huge number. Is this one supposed to be directed right at the consumers, the ones who were supposed to be getting helped in the first place with all these billions we have been hearing out there, so is this one meant to do the trick?
TELIS DEMOS, "FORTUNE": Well, I think that over the last week, the situation at Citigroup has really kind of scared the folks putting all these bailout packages together.
You know, so far, what they have been injecting has not really been working, and they have decided to just kind of keep pumping money into the system in the hopes of restoring confidence. At this point, it is about psychology. All these programs, when you add them up, you know, buying troubled assets or investing directly in the banks, really, what they are trying the do at this point is just put some confidence in the markets, which, you know, will help banks lend, consumers feel confident in spending.
HOLMES: Telis, I heard you use the word hope. They're throwing all this money in there, and they are hoping? When we are talking about these types of numbers, sums we can't even get our heads around, $800 billion, $700 billion, $700 billion, we can't even understand that, and we're talking about this is still a wing and a prayer?
DEMOS: Well, it's a wing and a prayer in the sense that they are not giving this money to them right now.
A lot of the dollar figures that you're hearing are coming in the forms of guarantees or if the banks lose this money, this much money, the government will back it up, will give that money back to shareholders. So it is not as if they are writing a big check for $800 billion, and so in that sense, they are hoping that by committing to the banks that they will be able to stem...
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: There you go with that word hope again. There you go hoping again.
All right, stay with us here. I am going to bring in Joanne Haddy, Frank Clark (ph), and Coby Leech (ph), three of our regular folks here on the panel with us.
Thank you for all for being here.
And, Joanne, I will start with you, since I messed your name up in the first block. It is Joanne now, not Joan?
JOANNE HADDY, ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHER: You're correct.
HOLMES: I got it right now. All right.
Well, Joanne, you just heard Telis there from "Fortune" magazine talk about the hope and supposed to give confidence to investors, supposed to give confidence to Wall Street. How much confidence do you have when you talk about these $800 billions and the $700 billions being thrown at the problem, this $800 billion now supposed to go toward the banks to help out consumers?
Does that give you the confidence Telis was just talking about they're hoping for?
HADDY: For myself, it is kind of a mixed bag. I don't necessarily know how much that much money is in reality. I just know how I live day-to-day, and investments and retirements and pensions are big on our household list, as well as everyday expenses. The price of gas going down has really helped, but we are being pretty close to the wire here in our spending, so we are just being careful.
HOLMES: All right. And, Frank and Coby, you will hold on. I'm going to ask you all a question, too, here in just a second, but here we have got a live picture coming out of Van Nuys, California, Southern California, a plane right now having an issue with a nose gear that is jammed. And it's coming in for a landing right now.
So, we're just going to take this picture to see what is happening. But, again, this is Southern California, Van Nuys. Don't have a lot of details about this plane in particular. All we know is that the nose gear is not working. Now, that is not good.
It has been flying -- what is this -- it has been flying around for a little while as we always see in cases like this, as we keep this live picture. Been flying around for a little while, so apparently eyes have been on the signal -- eyes have been on that plane there for a little while. Again, that was a live signal we were just getting in.
Going to try reestablish it and get it back up for you. There you go. It's kind of going in and out, so please bear with us here, but we are keeping an eye on this as many have for the past hour or so. We know oftentimes in these situations these planes, they take off. They might have a gear issue. And what they have to do is to fly around, burn off as much fuel as possible, so that they don't have that load in case anything does goes wrong when they do land.
Hopefully this will turn out all right. Oftentimes, we do see these work out all right. Have our fingers crossed this will as well. But we're going to keep an eye on it.
Our Miles O'Brien, we're working to get him on the line with us right now. I'm told he is on the line.
And, Miles, it seems like you and I end up doing these every time we work together, but here we go again. Is this the worst one to have out is the nose landing gear? Is that the worst wheel to have out?
(CROSSTALK)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CHIEF TECHNOLOGY AND ENVIRONMENT CORRESPONDENT: Actually, that is the ideal situation if you had to pick one. To have the two main gears deployed and then the nose gear not deployed is OK.
Where you get into trouble is when you have one of the main gears, the ones that goes on the wings, up and the other one down, and you land crooked.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: So, in this case, what the pilot will attempt to do is, he will land gently. He has got an 80,000-foot runway there at Van Nuys, plenty of space for us -- and just do his best to hold back on the wheel as long as possible, so that when the nose finally plops down, he is going as slow as he possibly can, just to minimize the amount of damage.
One thing you will look for him to do, too, is after he lands or right around when he lands, he will cut those engines, so that when that nose goes down a little farther than it would obviously with the nose gear deployed, it doesn't -- the propellers don't strike the pavement. So, that can obviously cause additional damage.
HOLMES: And, Miles, don't know long you have been keeping an eye on this particular situation. But, first, do you have any how far out -- we're just seeing this closeup, but do you know how far out possibly -- here's a wider shot -- maybe this will help -- but how far out they are from the airport right now and how close they might be to trying to land this thing?
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: I can't tell. I thought he was going to come in just a little while ago. It is hard for me to tell from these pictures as well, but, you know, as you say, you are exactly right, T.J., the thing to do is, first of all, you go fly around.
You try to deploy the landing gear manually. There is a pump set up in the Cessna 310, this the twin-engine plane with six seats. We are told there might be two people aboard in this case. They will try to pump that gear down. In this case, it worked for the main gear, but not the nose gear, and so what you do after that is just burn off as much as gas as you can, make sure you're nice and light.
Obviously, fuel is flammable. You want to limit the amount of fuel you have when you do something like this. And let's see if he is going to make it in.
HOLMES: All right. And tell us, is the key here really a matter of you just need to get the speed? You need to be going as slow as possible. And are these things built -- I don't know if you can tell what kind of plane exactly, but are these things built for just a thing, in case something like this would happen and the nose of the plane is pretty sturdy and if you're going slow enough, it can withstand whatever it needs to withstand one it hits the ground?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
This is a Cessna 310. It's very venerable old design. And it's a -well-engineered airplane, very robust. And, yes, I mean, you don't design it to withstand this kind of thing without some damage, but certainly the structure and the aluminum and the general infrastructure of an airplane like this can handle this kind of thing. There you see it, very clearly how this nose gear is kind of up there. It look like it's a little bit cockeyed. It almost looks like it's free-floating a little bit there. It might be the angle there.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: So, is it the guess, Miles, that this thing probably took off; they tried to retract that landing gear, and this is what happened; it got stuck like this?
O'BRIEN: It could have happened as they took off. It could have been something that -- I don't know enough about this, whether they were flying long cross-country, tried to put down the landing gear after a long trip, and this occurred. It could have happened either way of course.
And obviously if it happened on takeoff, that would explain why they flew around for quite a while. That meant they had a lot of fuel to go on a trip they didn't decide to go on.
HOLMES: All right. And we are getting this from the wire now, said this thing was heading to Camarillo. It's the nose gear only partially deployed. And the pilot decided to turn back. Now, can gauge what that might mean, but it was heading to Camarillo, nose gear only partially deployed.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Yes, I think that might be the wrong choice of words.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Possibly, partially retracted would probably be a better word.
And looks like he is coming in. He's on short final now. This will be the moment of truth. And I don't expect you are going to see anything here but, you know, a little bit of scraping. But, as he is coming down here, the key here is he has got his flaps deployed to make sure the airplane is going as slow as possible. That is the thing he has got to keep in mind as he comes down here. He will land on those main wheels. Right around that time, we should see him kill both engines.
HOLMES: And tell us here -- I know we have done a couple of these and watched these landings, but it seems like it's not usually -- you have got propellers on this thing. How much does that complicate it, to have those -- how close do those get to hitting the ground if that nose -- and there you go. Like you said, they just stopped. He cut his engines.
O'BRIEN: Yes. It does appear to be kind of -- there goes -- he has shut down the engine.
HOLMES: Just like you said.
O'BRIEN: And just we would have predicted, and that is a wise move.
See, he glided in. You don't want to cause additional damage to the propellers, the engine, the engine mounts, the wings. OK. So, here, he's going to glide it down.
HOLMES: And you keep the nose up as early as possible.
O'BRIEN: Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold that nose up, hold that nose up, but don't scrape your tail. You have got to be careful on that.
And down he goes. And that was pretty good. He is right on the center line, too.
(LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: Not bad. Not bad. Man, you know, he did that -- I don't know if you noticed that, T.J. He is right at the numbers there. He did that all before he even really got to the main part of the runway. So, that was pretty well done, I would say.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: Well, it is amazing to watch these things, oftentimes.
And you know what? We watch them and we keep -- excuse me -- keep an eye on them. Oftentimes, they are like that. You get up to that climax and we are glad they are uneventful, if you will, but the suspense is there. And we erupted in applause here in the newsroom, people excited and happy to see the kind of landing he made. And it looks like whoever that there is, is itching to get out of that thing as soon as possible there.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
No, you sort of can't help but watch them. And you know what I think we should start doing, T.J.? We should start sending them all DVDs of our broadcasts, just as a memento, don't you think?
HOLMES: OK. Because we have a done a couple, and you have praised them.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
HOLMES: And some guys don't know how well and how much they got an A-plus on their assignment and whole the nation was watching. But he is ready to get out of there, isn't he?
O'BRIEN: Maybe we could do a box set on landing gear up. We will call it "Gear Up With T.J. and Miles."
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: Congratulations, guys. You did it well and you did it for the nation. So...
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: Oh, and they hopped out of there quickly, I guess, just in case they scraped something. They don't want to stick -- well, they're still standing close to it right now. They should probably get away from that thing in case it's not in the best shape.
But, yes, they look pretty cool, calm and collected.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Yes, they did all right. And of course they are standing out there, going, oh, my gosh, this firefighter in his fire protective gear, maybe we should get away from this airplane. But I think everything is just fine in this case.
O'BRIEN: Well, Miles, buddy, we are going to run this landing one more time and let these guys get credit on their good job today.
But here it was, folks, just a moments ago, as Miles said.
O'BRIEN: It was well done, yes, yes. Hold it, hold it, hold it. I was worried about him dragging the tail there a little bit, because he was worried about his nose, but I think he did OK on that front.
HOLMES: And that is the key as well. You hold that nose up as long as possible, huh?
O'BRIEN: Yes.
One thing he did, T.J., I don't know if you noticed it, but he had stopped that left engine and the propeller was still vertical. Did you notice that?
HOLMES: Yes?
O'BRIEN: And he realized that wouldn't be good, so he started it up ever so briefly to get it horizontal. Did you notice that? That is pretty good.
HOLMES: I just thought that might have been the wind hitting it, and it made a quick adjustment.
O'BRIEN: Yes, a tip of the propeller to him for that one.
HOLMES: Miles, we have got to do this again, buddy.
O'BRIEN: Any time.
HOLMES: All right. Thanks so much. Glad we had you here.
And, folks, we will -- it sounds like everything is all right out there. So, we will move on to some other things. Been talking about the economy here. We have our guests here in the studio with us, also keeping up with the conversation on Twitter, on MySpace, and on Facebook.
Stay with us. The conversation continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: It's a part of Rick's show here everyday. This is the part where I show you what is being said about the show, about Rick in particular oftentimes, on the blogs all over the world, but, today, we will do something a little different, show you the focus on our own blog, on the CNN.com/ricksanchez blog.
Feedback has been coming in pretty fast and furious in regards to a story we talked about yesterday about the 8-year-old Arizona boy charged with murder.
Now, Barb (ph) wrote: "OK, T.J., about that little boy, I believe the officers who conducted the interrogations illegally actually talked him into a confession. Initially, he said he arrived calm and saw this. I don't believe it at all. The poor kid. Why doesn't anybody see that?"
Now, that is not the only topic that is getting people's attention out there. We also talked a lot about the bailouts over the past few weeks and months. Well, one of our viewers has his own idea for a bailout.
This is Eugene (ph). He wrote says: "There are some 200 million citizens over the age of 18. For a workable economy stimulus, if we gave each citizen $250,000 minus the average 25 percent tax rate, they would have $185,000. Now, some of the people are entrepreneurs, so they would create jobs. The others are spenders, so they could stimulate by helping the businesses that already are in business. Hopefully, each citizen would pay off all of their debts. This would solve most of the financial companies' worries, a one-time bailout for each citizen."
Don't know the total on that one, though, Eugene, but not a bad idea, maybe. Now, we love hearing your comments about the show on the show, wherever they're on our blog, whether they're yours, where they are coming from. Keep them coming. We will keep checking your sites. Please, keep checking ours. You will see the show's blog at CNN.com/ricksanchezCNN.
Stick around. We're right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: And hello again, everybody.
T.J. Holmes sitting in here for Rick Sanchez this week.
You saw there a glance -- excuse me -- a glance over at our panelists, if you will. We have some regular folks sitting in with us today. That's Colby, Joanne and Frank.
You all just kind of gauge for me with your reaction. Just let me see your heads nod or shake or -- you know, the pirate story -- we've been hearing a lot about pirates.
You all have been keeping up with this stuff? Has this really piqued your interest or has it much? Have you been keeping up?
Just give me a little head nod or hand wave or -- yes, kind of, sort of?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sort of.
HOLMES: Colby is like what in the world are you talking, about T.J.?
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: Well, what we are talking about here is what's happening off of the Horn of Africa. We have seen hundreds of millions of dollars in ransom be paid to pirates who have been hijacking ships there in the Gulf of Aden -- again, right off the Horn of Africa. Particularly Somalia has been an issue. And right now, the biggest prize is still being held -- a Saudi tanker, about a week ago, we saw hijacked by pirates.
There you go, a shot of it there. Some $100 million plus worth of oil on this thing. And now the pirates, as they have been doing, asking for ransom for the crew, for the ship itself. And the reason, many say, that these attacks keep happening is because many governments and many private companies keep paying the ransoms to get their ship, to get their people back.
Well, we rarely get to see or hear from a pirate in particular. We will, just now.
David McKenzie with the story for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The footage is shaky, the landscape desolate. But this dead road leads to pirate central. CNN obtained this footage from Gorawe, an independent Somali news organization. Its reporters traveled to one of the most dangerous places on the planet -- the port of Eyl -- our pirate dead (ph). Late into the night, they interviewed Boya (ph), who says he's a pirate leader. This modern-day buccaneer is unremorseful.
BOYA, SELF PROCLAIMED PIRATE LEADER (through translator): Since the ocean is our government, we go into the deep ocean and hijack unarmed cargo ships. That is what forced us. There is no law that allows us to hijack traveling ships but what motivates us is life, since we are the people who used to work at sea.
MCKENZIE: Many of these pirates used to be fishermen, who have now traded their nets for their weapons -- a subsistence way of life for the high life. Pirates have the best houses, the fanciest cars, the prettiest women, say the people here. The pirate haven is on the coastline of Puntland, part of Somalia. Piracy has made Eyl a boomtown in a territory of extreme poverty, the Puntland government is ineffective and widely considered corrupt, with the government unable to lives, piracy begins to look like an attractive option.
BOYA (through translator): We work together and our ranks grow because there is more hunger and more skills. That is what causes more people to join piracy. Piracy is growing faster, but it is not something that is lessening. The world cannot do anything about it.
MCKENZIE: Boya claims that the Puntland government is growing in the piracy, alleging that officials take 30 percent of the ransoms. Reached by phone, the Puntland foreign minister government denied involvement with the pirates, including taking bribes and citing the arrest of six pirates earlier this year. They have not yet been tried.
Researcher Dick Hanson has made several trips to Puntland. He says the Puntland government is outmanned, outgunned and outspent by the pirates.
DICK HANSON: And so they have Tariah (ph) systems. They have GPS. And sometimes they have quite impressive intelligence. So there is some investment into this whole group, so there must be some businessman that also supports those pirate groups.
MCKENZIE: And even with high tech equipment, naval ships officers concede they can't (INAUDIBLE) because they can't be everywhere.
BOYA (through translator): It is impossible, because the Indian Ocean is vast and huge and those foreign warships who say they will protect the ocean cannot do so. No ship has the capability to see everything.
MCKENZIE: While this pirate was outspoken, he would not let us see his face -- an indication that even in this lawless country pirates, still have some fear.
David McKenzie, CNN, Nairobi, Kenya.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Yes, and this -- it's really, for a lot of people -- and we just talked to our panelists over there for a second. I just got reaction from them. A lot of people are kind of confused by the story, are kind of -- kind of and don't really know what to make of it, if you will, what's going on over there. It seems like the pirates are celebrated in some ways that we just saw in that piece.
We've got a question here -- several questions -- a comment and questions from somebody from our MySpace page -- Rick Sanchez's MySpace page.
It says: "What benefits are these pirates getting out of hijacking ships and whatnot? Are they even welcome in their own country, what with stealing the supplies and whatnot? Why do we continue going over there if it is just going to get our ships attacked by pirates?"
That raises a lot of quick questions there. Also, a Twitter about it. It says: "It's unfortunate, but little has been done to help Somalians so they are helping themselves." Again, a comment there on Rick Sanchez's Twitter board.
So, a lot of questions people do have. Well, our next guest may be -- after the break, we're going to talk to -- could help us get some answers. That interview you saw with that pirate -- this next gentleman was in the room -- a journalist who helped set all that up. We're going to talk to him about what he experienced and maybe get some answers to some of your questions.
Stay here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: And by all means, continue to send in your comments to Rick Sanchez's Twitter board, his MySpace page, his Facebook page. Get involved in the conversation. We'll continue to use your comments here on the air.
We just showed you that video and talked about the story about the pirates who have been really hijacking ships, a number of them -- attacking about 100 of them in the past year alone -- and have been paid ransom in the hundreds of millions after they hijacked these ships.
While we showed that video and interview with one of the pirates, one of the gentlemen who helped facilitate that interview, who helped set that up, worked on it for about a year, joins us now.
Yusuf Hassan joins us now from out in Seattle. I appreciate you being here with us.
And you help put it in some perspective, in laymen's terms for people who are here in the U.S. and that story seems so far away and can't understand what in the world is kind of going -- going on. This just seems to be the norm almost. The money is being paid.
Put it in perspective for us -- what is going on? Why does it seem like even -- this seems to be a line of work for some people there, to be a pirate?
YUSUF HASSAN, EDITOR OF GAROWEONLINE, INDEPENDENT SITE PROVIDING SOMALI NEWS IN ENGLISH AND SOMALI: Well, it's a line of work to be a pirate, T.J. because you have a country here that has been suffering nearly 20 years of civil war and foreign military occupation, failed U.N. disaster missions. So people have -- are very desperate. People are hungry. People are -- you know, the U.N. estimates nearly three million people need food assistance in Somalia this year.
So you have young men who are fully armed. They have other people who finance these missions and offer them hundreds of millions of -- I mean hundreds of thousands of dollars per person. So they take advantage of that opportunity, because they're armed to begin with. And it's an opportunity to come up -- to come up and out of poverty for all (INAUDIBLE)... HOLMES: And I'm so glad you say that, because oftentimes in these stories, that is missed -- exactly what has led to people going into this life of piracy, if you will, and such despair that's happening there.
So, you know, does anyone in Somalia -- does the government even, do people want to rise up against this lawlessness. Still, they are committing acts -- criminal acts. But still, at the same time, do many people over there, at the same time, can -- do their hearts go out to them and they can understand why they do what they do?
HASSAN: I would say most people in Somalia understand what they are doing. They have really -- most of these young men are of the generation -- come from the generation in their 20s and 30s, who were supposed to have a proper education by this age, enter college or university and develop into a normal human being. However, you have a country that is not providing the opportunities.
HOLMES: Right.
HASSAN: T.J. when you speak of a government in Somalia, a government in Somalia is just a term -- a relative term, really. Government officials are, you know, very corrupt. You have, you know, reports that the government officials are directly involved in piracy.
HOLMES: Yes.
HASSAN: So the population is not really against these gentlemen in the sense that they don't see them as the only criminals. Some people -- the locals see the government itself as criminals.
HOLMES: And so you saw -- you made some good points here. And I'm going to have to get out on this one. But tell me -- and it seems like I might have heard it in that last answer -- will we ever see an end to this -- an end to this piracy until we see a change in the lives of the people of Somalia?
HASSAN: Absolutely, T.J. Piracy is not a problem that grew out, you know, out of nowhere. It's not an isolated problem. Piracy is part of the many problems of Somalia. Because of piracy, now the world is giving attention to this country that has been long forgotten, after the U.N. mission in the early 1990s.
So piracy has brought back that attention. But to deal with piracy -- I mean, you see all of the foreign warships who are trying to fight the pirates at sea. But what is that really going to do in the long-term, when the country is burning at home and the country keeps producing more and more pirates, more and more pirates, who are armed, who are hungry and who are willing to take -- to make dangerous decisions?
HOLMES: Well, Yusuf, that was a heck of a risk you took to get over there and get that interview. We know it took a lot for you to set that up. And I'm glad we had you on to bring some attention and give some perspective about what's going on over there and why it's happening. Yusuf Hassan. Sir, it's good to talk to you. Thank you so much and good luck in the future and to other reports. I'm sure you're going to be following up on it.
HASSAN: Thank you, T.J. .
HOLMES: All right. Coming up next, we talk to a man who is going to be leaving one job and a lot of people are wondering what he's going to do next. Howard Dean is stepping down from the DNC chair. We'll ask him what he's going to be up to next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. Some of you may remember the name Robert Bosson. We told you about this gentleman yesterday. And Robert is the Arizona man who took his two young sons with him to the street corner to beg -- really a tough story for a lot of people to see. He thought that people would assume he was begging for money for drugs or liquor if he didn't have his sons with him, so he took them with him to just kind of prove the point -- that he really needed this money for his family. He had lost his job, was close to losing his home.
Well, we got a huge response from our viewers about this story. A follow-up to it now -- and a nice follow-up.
We did talk to Robert today over the phone. He has gotten a lot of help and a lot of people have reached out to him since his story aired. He's gotten help renting an apartment. And that apartment is paid now through the end of the year.
Also, he has a pre-paid phone. This is kind of an interesting thing he told us. He has a pre-paid phone that he uses while he's trying to find work. He was on the phone with a woman who found out he was running out of minutes. Well, a little while later, just while he was out, the phone buzzed. He looked down at it and it indicated that somebody had added minutes. He has no idea who.
Also, a stranger took his family grocery shopping then they left him some cash to carry them over for a little while.
A number of things that that have been happening to him since his story aired.
Also, he tells us that his sons are going back to school for the first time in a few weeks. They had been out there with him on the street.
So a nice follow-up there. Things are getting better. It's nice to hear that people are reaching out. We're so happy when we can hear things like that.
We'll keep you posted.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: He has been the chair of the Democratic National Committee for the past several years, but he will let that post go at the beginning of the year. And I'm talking about Governor Howard Dean. He joins us now.
Kind sir, thank you for being with us. You don't want the job anymore?
HOWARD DEAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Well, the job is a great job, but the incoming president has the right to nominate the person that he or she wants. And that's what I'm stepping aside to make sure happens.
HOLMES: You don't want to wait to see if maybe he wants to keep you around?
DEAN: Well, look, this is a very different job. I had a great time. We had a wonderful time with a lot of Americans who really wanted change in the country. That was the job. We changed the Democratic Party. Senator Obama -- or president-elect, now, Obama used those changes and expanded them dramatically. He's -- he's really going to be the president of all of the people, not just half of the people.
And so it's a good time to leave. He needs to have control of the Democratic Party. And that's what the job is.
HOLMES: And you said a good time to leave. A good time to leave to do what? Is there a possibility we will see you pop up as a member of the Obama administration?
DEAN: Well...
HOLMES: And can you tell me has anybody from the administration approached you about being vetted? Have you filled out that questionnaire for any post?
DEAN: One thing that you don't talk about in Washington, if you're smart, is transition.
HOLMES: Uh-huh.
DEAN: And they have a saying, those who know don't say and those who say don't know and I don't know and I don't say.
HOLMES: You...
DEAN: So that must make me doubly smart.
HOLMES: You can't tell me whether or not you filled out the questionnaire?
DEAN: I could tell you, but I'm not going to discuss the transition.
HOLMES: You're not...
DEAN: I feel like... HOLMES: You're not...
DEAN: I was governor for 12 years and I was chair of the NGA. I've got a lot of interests in terms of health insurance, early childhood, because if you're ever going to fix the school system, it's going to start at age 0 to three, not even with pre-K.
So there's a lot of things I'm interested in still that I was very active in when I was active as governor and I'll continue to pursue those things, whether it be in or out of the Obama administration.
HOLMES: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
DEAN: That's up to the Obama folks, not to me.
HOLMES: All right. We know it is. But tell me this, there's been some debate out there. I want you to answer me honestly here, sir. And you can toot your own horn if you want to.
How much credit do you think you in particular, and the DNC, deserve for the success of Barack Obama, given how you kind of set the standard, a lot of people would say, with the grassroots campaign?
You had in '04 kind of set an example there. And, also, with your 50 state used to be controversial strategy when you first came into the DNC. That seems to be the model that Obama followed.
How much credit do you take?
DEAN: Well, look, every -- there are a lot of people who get credit for this. But I think the loin's share of the credit has got to go to Barack Obama and David Axelrod and David Plouffe. They're the ones that made this incredible campaign work. It's fun to talk about my campaign, but it was pretty disorganized compared to what we just saw.
(LAUGHTER)
DEAN: So I think, you know, there are a lot of people in America who get credit, including the 3.5 million people who donated to the Barack Obama campaign online. But I think, obviously, the lion's share of the credit for winning this presidential election goes to Barack Obama and to Plouffe/Axelrod and the millions of people who worked for that.
Where we, I think, get some credit is to changing fundamentally the direction of the Democratic Party, so that we're not just a party of 18 states in the Midwest and the Northeast.
HOLMES: Yes.
DEAN: Thanks to Senator -- now President-Elect Obama -- we're now a party that can win in the old Confederacy again. HOLMES: Right.
DEAN: We're a party that can win in the West. And we are a party that won back Florida and Ohio.
So, you know, we are a new Democratic Party and we're going to be a national party from now on.
HOLMES: All right. And we've got to let you go here.
But just to confirm, you are currently being vetted. I heard that right, didn't I?
DEAN: I had -- I didn't say any such thing.
HOLMES: (INAUDIBLE).
DEAN: I don't discuss the transition, as you may recall.
HOLMES: You had to discuss the transition.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: But you -- you know, you filled out a questionnaire -- about 60, 70 questions. Seen one of those lately?
(LAUGHTER)
DEAN: Good try.
HOLMES: All right. All right.
DEAN: Three strikes and you're out.
HOLMES: All right, Governor Dean, sir.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: We will see you pop up somewhere, I'm sure. And we will replay this moment that you and I had.
DEAN: Thanks very much.
HOLMES: Governor Dean, good to see you, sir.
DEAN: Thank you.
HOLMES: You take care. And ladies and gentlemen, stay with us.
We're going to discuss the disturbing situation we've been keeping an eye on over in Thailand. Protests happening there. Some amazing video you've got to see.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: We want to show you now some amazing video coming to us out of Thailand. Government supporters and anti-government protesters have been clashing. And it's led to pretty much a siege at the airport, as they've shut it down almost there in Bangkok.
Let's listen and let's take a look at some of this video.
(VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: All right. Again, we just wanted to show you the scene. And we will keep an eye on what's happening there in Bangkok, Thailand as that scene at the airport continues. It had to be closed down for a little while.
Stay here.
We have the undersecretary for Treasury coming up, taking your questions.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. We want to turn now to your questions. A lot of people have questions about all these bailouts and these billions -- this money being thrown around, who is it helping.
Let's bring in David McCormack. He's an undersecretary over at Treasury.
Sir, glad to see you. Thank you for being with us and thank you for answering...
DAVID MCCORMACK, UNDER SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY: Good afternoon.
HOLMES: Thank you for answering our viewers' questions. You know how this thing goes.
We will turn to this first one we have. Someone saying -- Michael Park is his name. He says: "I know the stimulus package may relieve those in foreclosure. But what about those teetering? What relief for all homeowners?"
I guess that's a good question. Some people are close to being behind on their mortgages. They're not quite in default yet.
So what about those people who are just struggling just a bit and need a little relief?
MCCORMACK: Well, there's a number of things that have taken place over the last 12 months to try to stimulate the economy. There was a stimulus package which puts money in the pockets of everyday Americans. There's been a number of steps taken to try to help people stay in their homes, those teetering on the brink of losing their homes. And many have had their mortgages refinanced. And this has been part of a comprehensive effort that saved two million people from losing their homes.
So there's been a lot done. There's no doubt that there's a lot more that can be done and should be done. And we're thinking being all sorts of programs to try to strengthen those efforts.
HOLMES: Well, let's try to get another one in here. And that one was from Michael.
Here's another one. It says: "To what extent is the new Treasury secretary working with the current one to coordinate monetary policies?"
So, essentially, how closely are Paulson and Geithner actually working together to coordinate this thing?
MCCORMACK: Well, monetary policy, of course is managed by the Federal Reserve. But our Treasury secretary designate is Tim Geithner, who is the president of the New York Federal Reserve. He has worked closely with Secretary Paulson over the last 12 months on just about every major part of the actions that have been taken. And we're trying to work closely from now until the last day of this administration to make sure that we turn the programs over in a way that they're just seamless and there's no bump.
HOLMES: All right. The last one here I think we're going to be able to get to -- and probably -- I need a...
MCCORMACK: All right.
HOLMES: I need a quick answer, but I don't think you're going to be able to give me one.
MCCORMACK: Sorry about that.
HOLMES: It's kind of a complicated question here but -- or a lot to it, pretty meaty. He says: "Why more bailing out money if we still have the first money left over? Also, why do banks get bailouts without strings, but not the auto industry?"
So I hope you can follow the question they're trying to ask there...
MCCORMACK: OK.
HOLMES: Why does it seem like we've got money left over but keep throwing other money on top of that and why not the auto industry?
MCCORMACK: Well, I'd say two very specific things. Our banking system, our financial system is not just about banks. It's about the entire global economy and the U.S. economy. Banks provide lending, which is so critical to our economy continuing to grow. Those banks that have received money, that money has come with restrictions on compensation and a number of other things to protect the taxpayers. And we're in the process of developing programs to spend the money that Congress has allocated to us.
HOLMES: All right.
Well, I appreciate it. You got me out right on time. Again, David McKenzie... MCCORMACK: Thank you.
HOLMES: ...the undersecretary -- you're getting this thing down. You know how that time works.
Sir, we appreciate you, thank you, hope to see you back here on CNN real soon.
MCCORMACK: Thanks.
HOLMES: All right, now it's time for me to hand it over to my colleague, Miles O'Brien, handling things up in "THE SITUATION ROOM" in New York -- Miles, it's all yours.
