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Nancy Grace
More Anthony Family Computer Searches Released
Aired November 26, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MIKE BROOKS, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee. Over 700 pages of stunning new documents just released. And there are some major bombshells. Not only were there computer searches for chloroform in the week before Caylee goes missing, but we learn searches for ``neck-breaking,`` ``shovel,`` and key ingredients to make chloroform also discovered on the Anthonys` computer.
They Anthonys blame rotting pizza for the smell of death in mom Casey`s car, but new evidence reveals there was no pizza at all, just an empty box. And shocking new details about the slacks found in mom Casey`s abandoned car, plus more of Casey Anthony`s text messages surface. This time, she tells her live-in boyfriend she`s, quote, "the worst mother and hates myself" -- "and I hate myself" and says if cops don`t find Caylee, she will end up in jail. And we finally hear a description of the so- called nanny mom Casey claims kidnapped her little girl. But tonight, where is Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey, do you still think you`re an unfit mother?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over 700 pages of new documents have been released from the state attorney`s office. Not only did someone on the Anthony family computer search how to make chloroform, but they also searched "neck-breaking" and "making weapons out of household products."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S MOTHER: (INAUDIBLE) I made the greatest mistake that I ever could have made as a parent.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also in the documents are text messages from tot mom Casey Anthony to boyfriend Tony Lazzaro, where she says she is the dumbest person and the worst mother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: My mom flat out told me yesterday she would never be able to forgive me, and I even told her I`m never going to be able to forgive myself. Every day I`ve been beating myself up about this. Every single day.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also breaking today, an Orange County judge has denied a request for a gag order, which the state says was necessary to keep a fair and impartial jury.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: Good evening. I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 3-year-old girl named Caylee. Hundreds of bombshell documents just released.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: The (DELETED) detectives told (DELETED) (DELETED) They got all of their information from me, yet at the same time, they`re twisting stuff. They`re -- they`re already said they`re going to pin this on me if they don`t find Caylee.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Documents just released by the state show someone on the Anthony family computer was searching "neck-breaking" and how to make chloroform. Text messages from the tot mom to Tony Lazzaro show what she was going through the day she was arrested, telling Lazzaro she was the dumbest person and the worst mother.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY, UNCLE OF MISSING TODDLER: She said, I`ve stolen money from you, you know, I`ve been untrustworthy, you know, and she goes, And maybe I have been a bad mother and a daughter and sister.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The documents were just made public hours ago, while the judge in this case has denied the state`s motion for a gag order on all parties involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY: She opened up to me and said, Mom has thrown it in my face many times before that I`m an unfit mother. And you know, maybe she`s right, maybe I am.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: The biggest mistake was not calling you guys right off the bat. I understand all of that. It`s the biggest slap in the face, and I did that to myself. But the worst is I`ve done this to my daughter by allowing her to still be with someone else.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BROOKS: Good evening. I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Hundreds -- and I`m talking hundreds -- of pages just released, and some of these things you will not believe. I want to go right out to Mark Williams, news director at WNDB Newstalk 1150. Mark, what`s all of these hundreds and hundreds of pages? This is some unbelievable stuff.
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Mike, this is not the first goat (ph) rope (ph) you`ve been to.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: Seven hundred pages of documents released today by the state`s attorney`s office. They reveal some shocking searches on the Anthony home computer, including Google searches of words such as "chloroform," "how to make chloroform," "weapons out of household products" and the most disturbing of all, "neck-breaking." Now, there have been separate searches on Wikipedia. Whoever`s been on this computer has been a busy person. They reveal searches for words such as "acetone," "shovel" "inhalation" and "death."
Now, one note of interest, Mike, is the fact that we don`t know who was on this computer. The documents don`t show that. But one thing they did do is they went back and checked Cindy Anthony`s time card...
BROOKS: Right.
WILLIAMS: ... at work. She was working at the time this computer was accessed on line. So your guess is as good as mine.
BROOKS: OK, I want to go out to Kathi Belich, reporter for CNN affiliate WFTV. Kathi, who else in that house had access to that computer?
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, it could have been George. The documents show George was not working at that time. Or it could have been Casey. Obviously, prosecutors believe it was Casey. That`s why they`re using this as evidence. That`s why it`s become public at this point. And you know, it`s important to note, too, that this was back in March. This was three months before Caylee had disappeared. And at the same time, Casey was also looking on line for missing children Web sites.
BROOKS: What kind of Web sites was she looking for for missing children?
BELICH: She was looking at several missing children Web sites. And you know, there was speculation that she was trying to figure out the circumstances under which other children had disappeared. And you couple that with this information and you wonder, you know, what she was looking at. Our legal analyst says it could go to motive and premeditation here.
BROOKS: Yes. I have to agree with you on that. You know, we talk about computers all the time. And I`m not a computer -- I don`t know that much about computers. I know how to turn it on. I know how to make it print.
But joining us by phone tonight from Raleigh, North Carolina, is Ben Levitan. He is a computer and telecommunications expert. Ben, thanks for joining us.
BEN LEVITAN, COMPUTER AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Thank you, Mike.
BROOKS: Now, help us break this down, would you? They have all this information from the computers. Now, is it possible to tell who signed on, who looked up these things, just from the time of day? I mean, what do they have to do when they -- from the time this person, whoever is using the computer -- it could be George. It could be Casey. We know the mother wasn`t home. You know, could it have been Lee? Tell us how they go about starting an investigation into who`s using a computer?
LEVITAN: Well, Mike, like you said, this case is full of circumstantial evidence. The fact that someone looked up these Web searches does not make them guilty of anything. So we...
BROOKS: No, no, but we`ve got -- we`ve got -- we`ve got, you know, a girl -- a little girl missing.
LEVITAN: Yes.
BROOKS: You know, everybody -- the evidence points that she`s -- she`s dead. And you know, we`ve got these things they`re looking up about neck-breaking, about chloroform, acetone, all these things. Now, how can we find out who signed on to the computer or maybe who had access to this?
LEVITAN: Well, we can`t tell who signed on, but we do know that whoever was using the computer was looking up this information and was doing it in a kind of casual manner. They were not afraid of being caught at it because if someone -- from what I`ve seen, most of the people in the Anthony family are very intelligent. And if they were concerned about being caught, they would have erased all this what we call computer history.
BROOKS: But can you really ever erase...
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: But can you ever even erase -- if you just hit delete and you erase it, you put it in trash and it`s gone, can computer experts retrieve that from the hard drive?
LEVITAN: Well, now, here`s how it works with a browser. Now, there`s different levels of technical capability...
BROOKS: Right.
LEVITAN: ... but you yourself can just -- on your own computer, you can see your own history. There`s a button that says "history."
BROOKS: Right.
LEVITAN: And it keeps a list of all of the Internet sites you`ve gone to in the past six months.
BROOKS: But if you delete that -- if I put "delete history," does that delete the history, or can they retrieve that from the hard drive?
LEVITAN: Well, now, that will delete the history, but it will be still embedded on the hard drive until it`s written over.
BROOKS: Interesting.
LEVITAN: OK? However, that`s not the only place. The second place is there something called temporary -- Internet temporary files. And very often -- every Web page has an expiration date. So if you download a page that has an expiration date of, say, next year, because the writer doesn`t anticipate...
BROOKS: Gotcha. Right.
LEVITAN: ... changing that page, that page will be stored right on your computer, so next time you request it, it will just pop up so it doesn`t clog the Internet.
BROOKS: Interesting. Does it also tell you how long they spent on this particular page? Is there kind of a history like that, too?
LEVITAN: Well, you can find that out, too, just by telling when the next access was. There`s only two conditions. You`re either going -- there`s certain conditions. When you`re looking at a page -- well, you could have brought up the page and walked away from the computer.
BROOKS: Gotcha.
LEVITAN: The only way we know is when the next page was accessed or the browser was closed.
BROOKS: Gotcha. Rosie (ph)...
LEVITAN: That`s the only thing we can tell.
BROOKS: Rosie, let`s take a look at some of those Web sites that they were accessing. I saw a couple in there that were kind of interesting, you know, that whoever at this house -- we have Toursex, I mean, missing kids, Sexsearch.com, Sweetsexy, World4U, Sexy -- I mean, whoever -- you know, why they were doing -- then there`s one dealing with escorts, Philadelphia escorts. It`s just -- it`s just a little strange.
I want to go out to our producer, Natisha Lance. She`s a producer for the Nancy Grace show. Natisha, how many computers did they seize from that house?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, they have the home computer, which they seized, and they also have the laptop, which they seized, as well, which Casey was carrying around and claiming that it was her work computer. This was left over at Tony Lazzaro`s apartment when Cindy came to get her from the apartment. Lee Anthony went back to the apartment and got it, and police were able to go back later and get that laptop.
BROOKS: So they have both the laptop and the home computer.
LANCE: That`s correct.
BROOKS: Great. Folks, we`re taking your calls live. I want to go out now to Lisa in Missouri. Lisa, thanks for calling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks, Mike, for taking my call.
BROOKS: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question has to do with the evidence that Cindy -- the hairbrush that Cindy had given the FBI, knowing that it was not the correct brush. And I also want to ask about the jeans that she had taken out of the trunk of Casey`s car and washed. With her being a nurse, I have to wonder if she hasn`t known from the very beginning and has been more concerned with protecting Casey by getting rid of that evidence, as opposed to finding Caylee.
BROOKS: Well, you know, that`s a good question because, you know, right from the very beginning, we hear from Cindy. And we`re going to talk about Cindy a little bit more after a break. But you know, we hear Cindy - - initially, she talks about, Oh, there was something dead in the car. And then she says, Well, no, it was pizza. Now, we now find out that it was not rotting pizza. There was no pizza in the box. It was an empty box.
And then the pants. She was supposed to turn some pants over, and the FBI kept asking for, but they -- she never cooperated. So then they had to go ahead and get a search warrant and go to the house and get the pants.
But as we go to break, a program note. Tomorrow night, tune in for a special Nancy Grace investigation as we go inside the critical first 24 hours in the Caylee Anthony case. Then on Friday, an in-depth look at the first 30 days of the Caylee Anthony investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony`s computer records just released this morning and show she Googled "chloroform" and also ingredients that could be used to make the potential deadly chloroform, peroxide, acetone and alcohol which could be found around the house, on the afternoon of Saint Patrick`s Day, March 17. The newly released records also show on March 21, she researched how to make chloroform, "self-defense," "household weapons," "neck-breaking" and "shovel."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Well, over 700 pages of documents released today. The staff has been going through it all day. There is some unbelievable things that you`re going to want to hear that`s in this.
But when our last caller, Lisa from Missouri, was asking about the pants -- I want to go out to forensic scientist -- noted forensic scientist Lawrence Kobilinsky here in New York. And he`s also -- he`s with the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, and also a consultant to the Casey Anthony defense team. Koby (ph), thanks for being with us.
LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Sure. Good evening.
BROOKS: Now, the pants that they got out of the house. Now, if she washed these pants, could there be any evidence still left in the pants?
KOBILINSKY: I think it`s highly unlikely, Mike. I think that if you`re using detergent -- whether or not you use bleach, it`s almost irrelevant. But when you go through a typical washing cycle, you can remove trace evidence. You can remove stains of all sorts. I mean, that`s what the detergent is meant to do. So I think whatever was there is gone.
BROOKS: But what about blood? You know, sometimes you can try to wash off blood from a wall, and then you can use, you know, certain chemicals, luminol, for instance, to try to bring it back up. Can you do that with material?
KOBILINSKY: Well, you can. Luminol is a very sensitive procedure, and we have other presumptive tests for blood even more sensitive. But despite all of that, you can wash out a blood stain, especially if it`s not an old stain. Older stains become very fixed in fabrics and they stay there a long time. It`s very hard to get rid of it. But a relatively fresh stain can easily be removed.
BROOKS: What`s the best type (ph) of DNA will stay in clothing? What DNA is the strongest that will stay in clothing the longest?
KOBILINSKY: DNA will remain on clothing for a very long time, as long as you don`t use bleach, as long as you don`t use detergent to get rid of it. It`s a very stable substance and not easily degraded, not easily destroyed. But you can remove it if you try.
BROOKS: Now, I want to go back out to Kathi Belich, reporter for CNN affiliate WFTV. Kathi, tell us what was the deal with the hairbrush that our caller was asking about.
BELICH: Well, we obtained an e-mail that shows that her -- the Anthony family`s former spokesperson, Larry Garrison, had confronted Cindy about giving investigators not Caylee`s exclusive hairbrush, but rather a hairbrush that belonged to Casey. And we also obtained -- Cindy`s response to that was that she didn`t lie to investigators, she just didn`t walk to her bathroom to get the hairbrush that was exclusively Caylee`s.
And we did get a response from her last night about that. She says -- she claims that she told investigators she did give them a brush that was used not only by Caylee but also by Casey. That is what she`s claiming. But we would know that investigators would want Caylee`s exclusive hairbrush for DNA tests.
BROOKS: Absolutely. And she says she didn`t lie, but you know, does this -- does this go to her credibility?
Let`s uncage the lawyers. Out of Atlanta, prosecutor Eleanor Dixon from Cobb (ph) County, and Renee Rockwell, also from Atlanta, noted defense attorney, along with Alan Ripka here in New York.
OK, gang. What -- her credibility is shot, don`t you think, Eleanor?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Yes, I do think it`s shot totally, Mike. And here`s the thing. While she may have been well-intentioned, I wonder, too, if she wasn`t trying to protect Casey from something because that`s not a mistake that you`d easily make. She knew what the investigators wanted.
BROOKS: Absolutely. Alan Ripka, you see possible obstruction of justice charges coming here, or lying to a federal officer?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think so. I think if she was really trying to protect somebody, she wouldn`t have given any hairbrushes at all. She would have said she didn`t have one handy or didn`t know where they were.
BROOKS: You know that they would go ahead and just get a search warrant.
RIPKA: Well, maybe she could have gotten rid of them by then. First of all, she did hand over a hairbrush that she claimed was used by both of them.
BROOKS: After the fact, though.
RIPKA: Well, she knew at that time they were going to get the evidence that they wanted. So if she wanted to hide it, she could have gotten rid of the hairbrushes, and she didn`t.
BROOKS: Renee, weigh in.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I want to say she shouldn`t have gotten rid of the hairbrushes because, let me tell you something, Mike, if she did something deceptive, if she lied, don`t think that the feds are just going to walk away from this. I don`t see it. And I disagree with you, Alan. I think that there could be some potential charges.
BROOKS: And you know, and we heard also in the interview with the FBI, you know, she was, like, Oh -- just said totally opposite of what George said.
ROCKWELL: Well -- is that to me?
BROOKS: Yes, Renee.
ROCKWELL: Well, you`re going to see these people on the stand again. And I think now I`ve just about figured out why George went before the grand jury. I think they probably were asking him, Since mama was at work, who was on that computer during the day? Was that you making those searches? They`re trying to narrow down what was going on with that computer while mom was at work.
BROOKS: And Eleanor, you know, I know it`s not admissible in court, but I have used the polygraph as an excellent investigative tool. You know, if they have nothing to hide, why not give a polygraph to George and Cindy and Lee?
DIXON: You`re right, Mike. And besides, sometimes it can be used in court, if both parties stipulate to it. So again, if they have nothing to hide, stipulate to the polygraph and go forward. I think George testified in front of the grand jury because maybe that Cindy wasn`t going to tell the whole truth.
BROOKS: Yes, I think that could possibly be the truth because, you know, she started doing the -- you know, the old -- the backstroke right from the very beginning when she -- she wanted her daughter locked up the day -- you know, the day she reported to police. And now, you know, she`s defending her. You know, and since -- I just -- we`re going to talk again more about Cindy Anthony.
But I want to go out to Leonard Padilla, noted bounty hunter. Leonard, thanks for joining us.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Thank you, Mike. Thank you for having me here. And let me go on record. I`ll take a polygraph any time anybody wants. I have no problem with it.
BROOKS: By the way, have you taken the polygraph that the FBI asked you about yet?
PADILLA: No, no. They -- I`ve talked to them several times. And I`m trying to get a free trip back to Orlando and take it back there. I don`t care where they set it up. I`ll take it any time, and I don`t need a lengthy notice.
But let me explain something to you. If I was doing traveling as part of my job around the country and I was anticipating maybe seeing somebody or a young lady or sexual encounters or anything like that, I certainly wouldn`t use my computer. I`d go down to my sister`s computer and use her computer to do these searches.
BROOKS: Yes.
PADILLA: So there`s a lot of things there that somebody else was using her computer also. I don`t know who it was. But a lot of that stuff on there is just definitely not Casey`s.
BROOKS: Now, what about -- we talked about this last night a little bit. What about your assistant, Tracy (ph)? Have they tried to say that she was using the computer?
PADILLA: There was a situation that developed when we were down there the second time in Orlando, where a gentleman that`s a friend of George`s came up and said that George had gotten upset at Tracy because she had used the computer in the house and he was very upset because she didn`t ask permission. Myself and Rob asked Tracy, Did you use the computer? She said, No, I had my laptop the whole time, never used the computer in the house. So we told her, Well, George is setting you up for something that he did on that computer, and he`s going to say you did it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t care if it`s a year from now. Someone says that they saw Caylee -- and we`re still seeing (INAUDIBLE) we`re looking for her. I am going to go and look for her if someone calls me and said, I`ve seen her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you call prior to today?
CASEY ANTHONY: Fear of the unknown, fear of the potential of Caylee getting hurt, or not seeing my don`t go away again.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: No one can say or second guess what you`re going to do to protect your child when you fear for their safety.
GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: Dad, she`s safe. She knows who has her daughter. She knows her daughter is safe.
CINDY ANTHONY: You know, we`ve got to be very mindful because anything we say not even thinking about it could be something that could put Caylee`s life in danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Well, 700 pages of documents released today, with some unbelievable information in there. Text messages -- we`re going to talk about that -- some e-mails from Cindy`s brother -- we`re going to talk about that.
But I want to go back out to Natisha Lance, producer for the NANCY GRACE show. Natisha, what was the sheet of paper that was found in the car?
LANCE: There was a sheet of paper that has Casey`s name on it, and she had written her name with Tony Lazzaro`s last name on it. So it seemed like, you know, they were in a new relationship, a young relationship, and she was writing "Casey Lazzaro" on the sheet of paper.
BROOKS: Yes, you know, I`ve got the sheet of paper right here, and it`s really strange -- Casey Lazzaro, Casey M. Lazzaro, Casey -- I mean, I -- and all different handwriting. I didn`t know what to make of that.
I want to go out to our criminal profiler, Pat Brown, joining us from Washington. Pat, what do you think of, you know, this sheet of paper with all this different writing on it?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, it sounds like a teenager, somebody who`s not very mature, as we did when we were kids in school, girls would sit there and write boys` names and, you know, match them up and pretend you were -- you know, that would be your married name. So I think she was fantasizing about her future.
I do want to point out one thing that Mr. Padilla said which I totally disagree with. He says because there were sex sites accessed on the computer, escort agencies, that this couldn`t possibly have been Casey`s. Maybe Casey`s looking for a new job as a hooker. She`s got to make money somehow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New records show Casey Anthony was online on March 22nd, Googling neck-breaking, shovel, household weapons, self defense, and how to make chloroform. Four days earlier on Saint Patrick`s Day, she was researching the makings of chloroform, household items like peroxide, acetone and alcohol. Right around the time she was looking at missing children Web sites.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How do you deal with what they`re saying about in the trunk of the car?
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots that stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But like almost every statement her daughter Casey has head, it`s just not true. There was no pizza in the trash bag in Casey`s trunk. Just an empty pizza box.
There were flies and maggots in the trunk, along with Caylee`s hair and it turns out that trash bag came from her boyfriend`s apartment, which even he doesn`t understand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE BROOKS, GUEST HOST: I`m Mike Brooks in for Nancy Grace.
Well, let me see now. Flies, maggots, a pizza box. But no pizza. Sorry, Cindy, there was no pizza in that box. So what drew the maggots and the flies? We don`t know.
You know, earlier today, Cindy Anthony was on the "Today" show. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY: I said from day one that Caylee needs a voice and I`m her voice. If they had such a great case, they wouldn`t care about following up on leads. My only goal is finding my granddaughter.
I`m not worried about building some case against, you know, the prosecution to prove that, you know, a reasonable doubt. Either they have a case or they don`t. Bottom line is, Caylee is missing. And if there`s a tip out there, I`m going to follow up on it.
If they choose not to, that`s their prerogative. But they told me months ago that nothing is 100 percent. So if there`s 1 percent that she is still out there, I owe that to her, and I would think they would owe it to her, too. But if they choose not to, it will be on their hands when she comes home.
Something was decaying in there. And the forensic reports, they will reveal it. Right now, I`m not worried about that. You know, that was 15 days after the worst thing that ever happened to him in his life. His granddaughter is missing. His daughter is in jail. And he`s still in shock.
So, you know, we messed up this first date of when the last time we saw Caylee. We thought it was the 8th when actually it was the June 16th. So, unfortunately, when you`re going through a lot of stress, you know, you just -- your mind doesn`t work exactly the way, you know, you would normally want it to work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: That`s Cindy Anthony on NBC`s "Today" show.
Well, I`m sorry, Cindy, you know, you keep bashing the police. They are doing the best to try to find the body of your granddaughter. You know, you say they`re not following up on leads?
Well, we heard from the sheriff`s office, and yes, they are following up on leads. If they get a sighting, they let the police department in that particular jurisdiction handle the case.
Also, one of the other things that was in this 700-page documents was an e-mail. A very, very interesting e-mail from Cindy`s brother, Rick, to Cindy Anthony. And I quote, "Has anyone seen the friggin` babysitter? This is the friggin` question. If you can`t answer yes or no, then I have nothing more to say to you.
No grandparent that I know doesn`t know who is babysitting their grandchild. You have never seen this person. Who has seen her? If you can`t answer me, then count me out. Either produce a witness or forget it. This is not a, quote, `do you believe in God situation.` Have faith.
Your ignorance is intolerable. I am your brother, and I demand to know if anyone other than Casey has seen this stupid sitter. If you can`t answer that simple request, then you all -- are all by yourself on this. You need to get some psychiatric help."
Well, I tell you what, that is from her brother, Cindy Anthony`s brother.
Right now, I`d like to bring in from Los Angeles Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers."
Bethany, you just heard that from her own brother.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Yes.
BROOKS: And, you know, we`ve seen this whole family. George, Cindy, Casey, Lee. There`s a strange, strange family dynamic here. Help us figure that out.
MARSHALL: Well, I think that what has happened is that Cindy Anthony has developed this elaborate -- almost like a fanatical religious belief system about her own daughter. Almost like people who hold dogmatic beliefs.
And the belief system is designed to ward off the fact that her own daughter could be homicidal. And the belief system started a long time before little Caylee went missing, and the brother, looking from the outside in, as we as the public are looking from the outside in, begins to confront Cindy on this fanatical belief system about her own daughter.
And I think what this points to now is maybe the washing of the pants was because she was protecting Casey. Maybe giving the wrong hairbrush was an attempt at deception of the police.
And maybe -- and I agree with the attorneys on this, that the reason George Anthony went in and testified in front of the grand jury is that he does not have a voice at home in front of Cindy, just like her own brother did not have a voice. And this is the one chance he had to go in and tell the truth about what was happening.
BROOKS: You know, I have to agree with you, Bethany, because all along, I`m kind of seeing a family where George may try to inflict some, you know, some punishment on Casey or correct Casey. And it`s Cindy, no, no George, George, now, don`t do that. She -- it`ll be OK. And I think George has just had enough of it.
MARSHALL: I think so. And what`s really -- what is emerging is that the mother is ending up being almost as deceptive as the daughter. So we wonder how does all this pathological lying get started? Maybe we are getting a case study in that.
And I have to throw in one more thing.
BROOKS: Sure.
MARSHALL: I think what Leonard Padilla said about him implicating George Anthony on going and looking for sex sites, I think that was mean- spirited and low at a time like this.
And I think the fact is that Casey may have joined in her own mind getting rid of her daughter and then going out and looking for escorting work at the same time. That seems to make a lot more sense in this situation.
BROOKS: It does seem.
We`re taking your calls live. Eleanor in Florida, thanks for staying with us, Eleanor. You have a question. We have Eleanor from Florida? How about Joanne from New York?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I`m here.
BROOKS: Hi, Joanne.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m -- hi, how you doing?
BROOKS: Good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m curious. I know that everybody said that the boyfriend has been cooperative. But I find it very odd that George said from, like, three feet away with the car being all sealed up, all locked up and everything, that the smell was horrible.
And I know that the boyfriend went to pick Casey up when she called when her -- when she called initially that her car had died. I find it strange he didn`t notice the smell. And I was wondering if maybe Leonard Padilla knows whether or not the boyfriend took a lie detector test.
BROOKS: I believe that he did, didn`t he, Leonard?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, SEARCHING FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: Jesse took a lie detector test, and I believe Tony Lazzarro did also.
BROOKS: Yes.
PADILLA: But let me, let me come back on something that took place one night while we were there. George actually, at the top of his voice, said I can`t stand this anymore. I`m tired of living a lie. I`m not going to do this anymore. And his friend, Jim Smith, who was a cop with him up in Warren, Ohio was there as a witness to that statement that George made that night.
And I wasn`t implicating George in those sex searches. He`s not the one that was traveling out of town on his job going to other cities. Think about that, ma`am.
BROOKS: Now I will also go back out to the lines. Chris from Oklahoma.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, how are you?
BROOKS: Good, buddy. You have a question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, some of the terms that you had on the search terms, I noticed that it said "sex tour" up there. And automatically, in my mind, I mean, I`ve watched a lot of these new shows, and, you know, you hear about these people that they get involved with selling their children off to, like, sexual slavery and those type of criminal organized, you know, things overseas.
BROOKS: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I`m wondering if they`ve looked into that, that maybe this is a deal gone wrong, or something like that.
BROOKS: Mark Williams, news director from -- I`m sorry, WNDB News Talk 1150. Have you -- have they looked at all into that? You know it sounds like the Joran Van Der Sloot case.
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, you know, here`s the one thing, Mike, is the fact that they`ve probably looked into that. But let`s just take a look at the facts. The cadaver dogs hit in the back of the car.
BROOKS: Right.
WILLIAMS: Hit two spots in the back of the Anthony household by the swimming pool and under a, under a little play house that they had. The FBI, in their evidence, have said that Casey -- little Caylee is dead, the Orange County Sheriff`s Office keeps talking about it.
And, of course, you know, we get Cindy Anthony on "Today" -- on the "Today" show this morning, same song, same verse, poor-mouthing the Orange County Sheriff`s Department, who Leonard Padilla says is one of the top 10 investigative units that he has ever run into.
BROOKS: No, and I know the Orange County Sheriff`s Department.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
BROOKS: I mean I -- I know folks down there. And the FBI, you`re going to say that the FBI lab is wrong also? I just, I just don`t get it.
I want to go back out to the attorneys, Eleanor Dixon out of Atlanta, Renee Rockwell and Alan Ripka out of New York.
Should Cindy Anthony just stay off TV and keep her mouth shut, Eleanor?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: I think so. Something interesting she said on the "Today" show is something was decaying in that trunk. Well, think about it, Mike. What was decaying in the trunk? It was a human body, probably Caylee`s in which the cadaver dog hit on.
BROOKS: Well, you know, Alan, their attorney, Mark Nejame, he`s -- I think he threw his hands up and said, you know, no more. I can`t take this anymore, and he`s no longer representing them.
Do you think that somebody should just tell them, look, just stay in your house, keep your mouth shut, because do you think they`re hurting the case by coming out like this?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s always better when your client, their family and anybody else doesn`t make any statements, because oftentimes those statements could be used against your client during the course of trial.
In this case, however, it`s funny. The motion was made for a gag order by the prosecution. It`s usually made by the defense. And in this case, I thought all these statements were helping the defense.
By having all these people come out and make all these statements, they were gaining valuable information and evidence, but they chose to try to gag it, and it didn`t work for them.
BROOKS: Right.
Before we go to break, we ask for your thoughts and prayers for little 5-year-old Pensacola friend, Joey. After receiving a kidney transplant just two years ago, Joey is in the hospital fighting pneumonia.
Joey, please get well soon. We`re thinking of you, buddy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has worked so hard all of her life to make sure that you have kids to be proud of, she has kids to be proud of. And other people can be proud of her family.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That that perception on her part is being shattered right now, and she doesn`t want to admit that yet.
G. ANTHONY: I know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Subjects such as responsibility and dependability, she rated her extremely high in all of them.
G. ANTHONY: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And -- that`s one reason I didn`t want you to think that I was just saying earlier that your wife is seeing through -- things through rose-colored glasses or things but that`s actually what she is telling us, and she`s putting it in writing. That this, this is how she feels about her and how she views her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks in for Nancy Grace.
Over 700 pages of documents released by the state`s attorney`s office today, and some of the information on it you will not believe. Computer searches. Somebody searching a computer on neck-breaking, chloroform, death, shovel.
Who`s making these -- who`s making these searches? We don`t know. How to make chloroform? Household weapons? It looks like -- you know, as you might -- whoever, I don`t want she. Whoever this was should have just gone out and gotten the anarchists cookbook or the book, "How to Get Even."
I just don`t understand it but there`s -- and there`s plenty more.
I want to go back out to Kathi Belich, reporter for CNN affiliate WFTV.
Kathi, there was also something in there about Casey Anthony stealing from her grandmother. What was that all about?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: Well, she`s stolen from her grandmother apparently more than once. She wrote a check to a grocery store chain here for 50-some dollars, and then at some point after that, hundreds of dollars to pay for her phone bill, her cell phone bill.
And actually, her grandmother told investigators that she did confront Casey about stealing the money. It was actually stolen from an account that was dedicated to her grandfather`s assisted living facility payment for that.
BROOKS: Nice.
BELICH: For those services. And even her grandmother didn`t have access to that account. But she said that Casey did admit it to her and she forgave her for Casey`s and for Caylee`s sake, as well.
But apparently, when this came to light, this caused a lot of tension between Cindy and Casey, already a tense relationship, and apparently there was a big argument about that very thing on Father`s Day after Cindy had visited with Caylee, and had visited the grandparents.
And they were talking about that money again. And there was a big fight, apparently, on Sunday, and the documents show that apparently Cindy might have grabbed Casey by the neck the day before she and Caylee took off, the last day that anyone had ever seen Caylee alive.
BROOKS: So Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer, do you think it was this fight that could have kind of kicked everything off?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, it`s a possibility. There are reports previously that said that Cindy Anthony was seeing a counselor, and this counselor had told her that she needed to cut Casey off, put Casey out of the house.
And on that 911 tape, you do hear Cindy saying I gave you 30 days, so perhaps it could be referring to her putting her out of the house and giving her some time to get her act together. But we don`t know for sure.
BROOKS: Bethany Marshall, a psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers," this behavior, this whole stealing -- I mean she steals from everybody, you don`t leave your checkbook around this woman, that`s for sure. I mean she stole from her best friend, she`s stolen from her parents, we heard that right in the very beginning, and now her grandmother.
MARSHALL: Well, I think for Casey the world is a piggy bank, OK? So she steals from her grandmother.
BROOKS: And she did -- stole from her daughter`s piggy bank.
MARSHALL: She took the money out of her child`s own piggy bank. She steals from her parents. Maybe if she was looking at escorting sites, maybe she was going to see men as piggy banks or marks so she could take money off of them in an illicit kind of way, but if this is true, it could provide a powerful motivation for homicide, because maybe George and Cindy were spending their money, their piggy bank, so to speak, on Caylee, the granddaughter.
And that built up a great deal of resentment on Casey`s part towards her own parents and towards the little girl, and that could have been sort of the boiling point that was taking place in the household.
BROOKS: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
G. ANTHONY: As far as other moneys that my daughter was taking, she took a small quarter coin collection. I know she`s been taking money from my granddaughter`s bank, because I`m always dropping five bucks, quarters, you know, one day you go in there and that bank is heavy, that`s a good- sized piggy bank and you know you put money in there. You know it. There`s nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: That`s Casey`s dad talking about her stealing from her own daughter.
I want to go back out to Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer. We also see in these documents, Natisha, a detailed description of the so-called nanny.
LANCE: That`s correct. There is a detailed description of the nanny. Now I spoke to the Orange County Sheriff`s Office, and they said -- I asked them, why didn`t they put out a composite sketch, and why didn`t they make this description available previously.
And they said that up until this point, even now, Casey has never told the truth about anything. So they didn`t want to put anything out there that would mislead the public, send them on a wild goose chase. But this description said that Zenaida was about 5`7", had curly brown hair, brown eyes, weighed 140 pounds, and she had a lot of money.
BROOKS: She had a lot of money. Hmmm. Did she have bills hanging off of her clothes? I mean, how does she -- well, first of all, we know that there is no Zenaida Gonzalez to begin with. And she had lots of money.
It seems like this young lady was obsessed with money, Pat Brown.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": The funny thing about that is how many people who have lots of money do daycare? Usually you do daycare because you really need some.
Casey likes to fabricate and she fabricates anything that is useful to her. So at any point in time where she needs to come up with a new story that she thinks can convince somebody of her innocence or put her in a better light she`s going to make a story up. So you cannot believe what she said.
BROOKS: It seems like if her mouth is moving she`s lying.
Let`s go out to the phones. Karen from Pennsylvania, thanks for joining us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I was -- my question is, I was just kind of wondering with all of the lies that Cindy Anthony has told and everything, has anyone thought about the possibility that -- the fact that maybe she is willing to take an obstruction of justice charge to create enough doubt that at least one jury member will be swayed and her daughter will escape the death penalty?
BROOKS: Renee Rockwell, what do you think?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, and you can`t blame her, that`s her daughter, that`s her blood. And I don`t -- I wouldn`t blame her at all. But she`s going to be prosecuted.
BROOKS: But Alan, what do you, what do you -- I mean, come on. Should there be an obstruction of justice charge? I think if they find out that she did this, and they say -- she has told people that, you know, I gave them the wrong one, she should go -- she should be locked up.
RIPKA: I mean, at the end of the day, what are you going to do? You`re going to start prosecuting the grandmother of a -- dead baby? I think you`re going out of bounds here and I don`t think they`re going to take the time to do it.
BROOKS: I think -- hey, put the cuffs on her, put the cuffs on her, take her to jail as far as I`m concerned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE ANTHONY: The biggest mistake was not calling you guys right off the bat. I understand all of that. It`s the biggest slap in the face and I did that to myself. But the worse is I`ve done this to my daughter by allowing her to still be with someone else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: Over 700 pages of documents released by the state attorney`s office today. And included in those documents are a whole series of text messages from tot mom to her boyfriend at the time, Tony Lazzaro, on the early morning of July 16th. It starts off at 7:02 a.m. from Casey.
"I`m the dumbest person and the worst mother, I honestly hate myself. The most important thing is getting Caylee back but I truly hope that you can forgive me. Granted I will never be able to forgive myself. No."
Then Tony asks, "Are you open? Yes, almost 12 hours of stuff, finally getting a shower. I feel like hell."
Tony: "Where did you drop off Caylee the last time you saw her?" She says, "At the apartment at the bottom of the stairs. Where? Sawgrass Apartments. I`ve showed and told the police the apartment."
And it goes on from there. But we know now that it is all a lie.
Eleanor, this doesn`t look good for her, does isn`t it?
DIXON: It doesn`t. The best thing the prosecutors can do is to use her own words in her prosecution to show that she is a constant liar. So this is great for the prosecution.
BROOKS: Renee, how would you, how would you defend things like that?
ROCKWELL: Mike, just because she`s a liar does not make her a murderer.
BROOKS: But she hasn`t told the truth from the very beginning.
ROCKWELL: I know that.
BROOKS: About anything.
ROCKWELL: She`s her own worst enemy. But there might be a juror that thinks that this child is still alive and that -- or that she might be protecting somebody.
BROOKS: Alan, you agree, yes or no?
RIPKA: At the end of the day the jury can`t convict based upon these lies that you believe she`s made. There`s no dead body, there`s no physical evidence.
BROOKS: Thank you, Alan.
Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Sergeant First Class Jason Dene, 37, from Castleton, Vermont, on a third tour of duty in Iraq. Dene dreamed of joining the military as a young boy, serving 20 years. He lost his life just one month before he was set to return home. He leaves behind parents Tisa, Teri widow -- Teri widow Judith, and three children.
Jason Dene, a true American hero.
Thank you to all our guests and you at home for being with us. A special good night from New Hampshire friend Shelby.
We`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, stay safe.
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