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American Morning
Mumbai Under Siege: Another Blast Rocks the Taj Mahal Hotel; Who are the Terrorists?
Aired November 28, 2008 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHAH MAHMOOD QURESHI, PAKISTANI FOREIGN MINISTER: We have today a common enemy. Extremism and terrorism is a common enemy.
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COSTELLO: The latest breaking news from Mumbai after reports the siege was almost over, it is clear operations are still ongoing in Mumbai. At the Taj Hotel, explosions and gunfire going off as our own Sara Sidner was talking to us earlier. She and her crew forced to get out of the area.
At the Oberoi Hotel, Indian special commandos say they have that building under control. Dozens of hotel guests are finally able to leave. Commandos also stormed the Chabad House, the Jewish center, where terrorists are still holed up with hostages. Our Nic Robertson is monitoring events there. But take a look, take a look now at the explosions we just heard at the Taj.
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SIDNER: Well, you guys, let's go. You start rolling for crying out loud.
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COSTELLO: And here are the dramatic pictures of the commandos dropping to the roof of the Chabad House, that Jewish center. Again, our own Nic Robertson reporting just minutes ago. Gunshots and explosions still being heard there. Nic also reporting that a military helicopter has arrived, but there's no word where the commandos stand with rescue efforts.
The situation remains so tense at the Taj. Sara and her crew are still staying away for safety. She's now wearing a flap jacket. Here's what she had to tell us moments ago.
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SIDNER: Two very large explosions just blasted. We all ducked and we have now been -- decided to move back a bit. I mean, this situation just seems to be getting more and more out of control. Now there are -- you'll see journalists suddenly crowding around and I'm not sure what they are crowding around at this point in time. But -- not sure. I think they were calling possibly an ambulance over to that area.
So, we're not going to get into that. We're not going to get ourselves sort of tangled up in that. But I do want you to take a look at the Taj. We have just gotten some more -- I just got a text message from family members who have been speaking to their family members who are inside and they say they believe that they have been pulled out safely. They just don't know exactly where they've been taken. So, apparently, an Americans -- four people have been sort of pulled out to safety, who were inside of that hotel. But we definitely have a serious situation here. I mean, it's constantly going --
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SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, apparently, an American, four people have been sort of pulled out to safety who were inside of that hotel. But, we definitely have a serious situation here. I mean, it's constantly going. Lots of loud bangs, lots of gunfire. And someone has been wounded.
It is official. Our bureau chief in Delhi, Phil Turner, has just told me that those crowds of cameras you're seeing, those crowds that are following, this person has been wounded. We are not sure if that person was -- I think they were sitting, maybe a journalist who was sitting outside the Taj just where we were two minutes ago. We backed off about 100 feet from that situation. But it is definitely a very liquid and dangerous situation right now.
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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CO-ANCHOR: OK. You just saw Sara on tape. We now have Sara Sidner live, and like I said she's wearing a flak jacket now. She's in a safer location.
Sara, a short time ago, we saw video of explosions happening inside the Taj. It was explosion after explosion after explosion. Could have been grenades? Do we have any idea what it was?
SIDNER: No. But they were very, very loud. We have heard what sounded like grenades which were much more muffled. These sound like something else because they're extensive and loud and they keep going off in succession. Sounds like there are quite a few of them. It maybe a flash bang type of this scenario where the army is blowing these off to try to scare the terrorists out.
I'm going to move out of the shot, and I want to show you what that noise did. If you take a look at this window right here, you will notice that the window has what appears to be something blowing out of it. That window in that area looks like that room has been attacked over and over and over again by what it seems are the army personnel or the commandos that are inside. And so that, basically, glass spurted out of that window and then the one next to it. So that area there, the section of the Taj looks like it's on the first floor. There's a ground floor then the first floor.
On the first floor on the small part of the dome, the rounded side of the dome, which looks like kind of a large room there, that appears to be a target of some sort because we keep hearing and seeing, hearing loud noises and then seeing that window blown out and now you're seeing things sort of flying out. I think that is a curtain and it's all blackened.
COSTELLO: Right.
SIDNER: So, apparently, there are some issues in that room. Whether it's the terrorists or not, we don't -- we do not know.
COSTELLO: Well, Sara, we had reports earlier that these terrorists had actually set up command centers inside the hotel. Might that be one of those command centers?
SIDNER: It could be, although we were hearing that they were on higher levels. Could even have been in the new part of the Taj, which is about several floors like 18 floors up and not in the heritage part of the hotel. But certainly, there have been reports that this was a situation where these terrorists had rooms and they basically set up a control room for months, casing the joint, basically trying to figure out where all the exits and entrances were, trying to figure out how everything worked, security, and this sort of thing.
And if that is true, if that becomes true, certainly an attack that costs quite a bit of money to stay in a suite like that and also an attack that was very, very well thought out, very well-planned, and what that says about who is doing this, who is creating this terror in this city of Mumbai, says a lot about the group that may be responsible for all this mayhem.
Certainly, there are, you know, more than 100 people dead. There are hundreds of people who are injured. So I want to give you some good news.
I'm just getting a text message from four Americans who have been inside this hotel from Chicago who we have been talking to throughout this 42 or 43-hour ordeal now. They have apparently been taken out. They have made it out and they are well.
The family is writing me, and they are very happy. And so, we should say that that group of four people who are calling and saying we're running out of water -- sorry, they made it out and so the family is very happy.
COSTELLO: Oh, you're so emotional about this. You've established a relationship with the family in Chicago then and have been texting them often, right? SIDNER: Yes. Over the past few hours, I text them are you OK, because I heard all of the loud bangs. As I was coming from my hotel, I had taken down for a few hours and was feeling quite guilty that I wasn't out here watching the situation. And when I got back, I got a text from one of their family members in Chicago saying we have gotten a text from them. They say they are out. They've been led out, and they are safe. Just a few moments ago, I got a text saying, "We are safe."
COSTELLO: Oh, I'm so happy to hear that and I'm so glad you can impart some good news this morning as well. You're in a safe location, right, Sara? And you're fine. I know you must be exhausted as well.
SIDNER: Yes. We're between two vans, so we're OK.
COSTELLO: All right.
SIDNER: A bit.
JOE JOHNS, CNN ANCHOR: Sara, Joe Johns. One more question I wanted to -- just give us a little sense of this hotel. There's been fires, there's been explosions, and this is an incredible landmark that tourists from all over the world go to. It looks like it's just been trashed.
SIDNER: You know, it is a magnificent hotel, even still, it is such a beautiful hotel. I'm going to move out. I'm going to let you get a look at it.
It's still a beautiful hotel. But yes, there have been so many explosions. We don't know if those are explosions that actually caused damage or explosions that may just be loud noises to flush out the terrorists. But certainly, fire has done its damage to this building.
The beautiful dome though has stayed intact in the middle. But on the side, on each side of the building, there is now smoke. I'm seeing coming a little bit of black smoke coming from an area that's been burning throughout this 43-hour ordeal. There was a fourth floor where the window was blown out, and can you see that there's very much smoke damage inside of that room and probably beyond that.
So, yes, this place has been hit pretty hard, although we have not been able to see obviously anything inside. But it is a palatial and beautiful piece of architecture, a heritage site, one that is about 105 years old. It has lasted that long, Joe. But now, terrorists seem to be ruining this beautiful monument for everyone.
JOHNS: And a lot of people have suggested at least in the media that perhaps part of the motivation for this attack was to scare off the tourists because as I understand it, we were sort of approaching the beginning of the busy tourist season.
SIDNER: Yes. And the reason why it's the tourist season here now is because usually this place is steaming hot. It is very difficult to sort of enjoy yourself when it's 110 degrees and humidity of 90. Now, it is very pleasant. This is the winter time. It's quite beautiful here, about 80 degrees in the daytime and it cools down to about 60 at night.
So this is the perfect time to come and see beautiful Mumbai. What is usually a vibrant city full of people, full of action, and right now, though, it's been full of terror and that has really taken a toll on the citizens. And, of course, foreigners who are thinking of maybe coming here, maybe looking at their plan and saying, wait a minute. This is still a live situation and we may not want to come to this area right now, though they may see some people --
All right. We've got another blast. I'm going to let you take a look again at the Taj.
Now there is more black smoke coming from the left-hand side from just behind one of the small domes on the corner of the Taj and, again, you heard there a loud bang. We did not see any blast blowing out at this point in time. But every time that we've heard one of those bangs or at least the last few times, we've noticed windows being blown out. That sounded like it was a little deeper into the building, not on the periphery.
So, again, active scene. It's still quite an ordeal right now that's been going for 43 hours.
COSTELLO: Sara -- Sara, a question for you. Phil O'Sullivan, one of our producers is at the Oberoi Hotel.
SIDNER: Yes.
COSTELLO: He said authorities told him two terrorists were in that hotel holding it under siege for 42 hours. How many terrorists are thought to be inside the Taj?
SIDNER: Over about 30 hours that I've been covering this, first, they said there were five terrorists that were still holed up inside the Taj. That was about 15 hours ago. And then it broke down last night, our time here to one. And we were told at that point by an official that basically one person was wounded and they believed it was going to be over soon. OK? Well, that was 12 hours ago.
And so, it is quite odd when you hear that there may be only one person, that there's still this much action going on. Certainly, there have to be dozens at least commandos who are inside. So this is a real interesting situation. We don't know if, in fact, it is just one person, whether there may be others that are still inside the hotel because they're not just targeting one specific area.
COSTELLO: I would expect it would be hard to identify these terrorists, because, you know, authorities don't know what every terrorist looks like. They could just act like they are a hotel guest, right, and continue to maintain control?
SIDNER: That is one of the things that could be happening. Remember that at some point over this past 43-hour ordeal, people were told to go into their rooms, close their doors, don't open it for anyone and to shut all the lights off and that sort of thing. So who knows as to whether some of these rooms are filled with people who meant to do harm and are just hiding out themselves waiting for police to come so that they can do harm to the commandos.
Again, a very difficult situation. Not putting any more pressure on the commandos, but certainly when you hear that there's one person and that they know that there's one person in there and that's all they believe is in there, it's just a little hard to believe would be a lot of misinformation coming from authorities here in India. That's quite frustrating, frankly, for the families wondering what's going to happen to their loved ones who may still be inside.
JOHNS: As well, an awful lot of rooms to go door-to-door to door to try to make sure that there's no one in there who is holding a weapon, a grenade, what have you.
All right. Sara Sidner there in Mumbai. Thank you so much for your reporting and keep that flak jacket on.
It appears operations are over at the Oberoi Hotel. Authorities say the hotel is now clear of all gunmen, but they recovered 30 bodies so far.
Alex Chamberlain is a British businessman. He was at the Oberoi Hotel when the siege began 43 hours ago.
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ALEX CHAMBERLAIN, WITNESS AT OBEROI HOTEL: So we're walking up each flight of stairs and then he stopped us after two or three flights and told everyone to put their hands up and said, "Where are you from." He asked, "Any British or Americans here. Show us your I.D. and all." People started getting out their business cards or I.D. cards or whatever.
And my friend said, you know, tell them you're Italian or something if they come up to you, you know. So I was there with my hands up just thinking. Basically, I was in, you know, serious trouble.
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JOHNS: Up next we'll talk to Sajjan Gohel, the director of International Security, the Asia Pacific Foundation.
Also both the president and the president-elect have responded to this crisis in Mumbai. We'll talk about the challenge facing the incoming Obama administration, fighting a still raging war on terror.
It's 11 minutes past the hour.
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SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you guys, let's go. Just start rolling.
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JOHNS: They're attacking hotels, a hospital, a Jewish center. These terrorists are sending a powerful message that no one is safe and everyone is a target. But why these particular places? Why Mumbai? And should Americans now be worried they'll be targeted overseas?
Joining me now from our London bureau is Sajjan Gohel, the international security director for the Asia Pacific Foundation.
Thank you so much for coming in. We have heard that a group calling itself the Deccan Mujahideen has taken responsibility for this. However, there's some skepticism particularly among analyst here in the United States as to whether that's actually the group.
Let me ask you first, do you think this is, in fact, a new group that's been able to do such a coordinated attack? Or do you think it was someone else?
SAJJAN GOHEL, DIR. INTL. SECURITY, ASIA PACIFIC FOUNDATION: I think, Joe, if we look at the nature of the attack, it went after the transportation system, a major railway Mumbai was targeted. They also went after the commercial dimensions by trying to paralyze the economy, put the city into paralysis to create economic, social and political consequences.
Now, these are the tactics of groups that are affiliated to the al-Qaeda's school of thinking. It doesn't necessarily need to be al- Qaeda central itself. But certainly the group is motivated by bin Laden's own ideology.
The Deccan Mujahideen, I would say, is a misnomer. It's a front name for a much more established network, a group of individuals that are highly trained and highly able to plan and plot an attack of this scale. I wouldn't put too much stock in that name.
JOHNS: Now, the other question, obviously, is we've never really seen, have we, an attack of this sort on multiple different locations effectively holding an entire, very large city siege?
GOHEL: Well, Mumbai is no stranger to terrorism. Back in 1993, its stock exchange was targeted in an explosion as well as some hotels. And then in 2006, there were multiple coordinated bombings on the railway network.
This time, though, I described this incident in Mumbai as uniquely disturbing because although Indians have been targeted, this time the primary focus have been Westerners and in particular, Americans and also Britons. And that is what is the warning situation. Because although al-Qaeda and its affiliates may not be able to target the U.S. directly on the mainland, now the next aim will be to target Americans abroad.
And that is something that's going to have to be factored in for the future because these individuals were very well prepared. They did their reconnaissance. They did their planning. They looked at the hotels they wanted to go after.
The Taj and the Oberoi are very strong symbolic parts of Mumbai's architecture and landscape. They went after a Jewish cultural center. These are all the type of assets that al-Qaeda and its friends want to try and target.
JOHNS: And you've also said, have you not, that the timing of this was significant? Are you talking about the tourist season, the beginning of the tourist season?
GOHEL: The tourist season is important, but there are also three events that are tied to Mumbai all uniquely separate but, again, very much related. For example, the attacks began on the eve of Thanksgiving. The Taj Hotel, the Oberoi Hotel, a number of different places were actually going to have Thanksgiving celebrations for the American tourists, the expats, Americans that were living and working there. So that had to be disrupted. A lot of them had to cancel it because of what actually took place.
Also, there's a major cricket tournament starting next week which was going to generate tens of millions of dollars for Mumbai, where some of the matches were going to be. That got cancelled.
And thirdly, there are major state elections taking place which are going to have a huge impact over what could happen in the general elections at the start of next year. So economically, politically and socially all those dimensions were targeted. These individuals chose this time very specifically, not just to target India but to target Westerners as well.
JOHNS: The fact that the elections are coming up, is this an attempt to destabilize not only the elections but perhaps the country going forward? Are we talking about trying to draw a wedge between India and Pakistan? Are we talking about drawing a wedge or perhaps even punishing India for its connection in trade and so on with the United States?
GOHEL: I think absolutely. The United States and India have now formed a strategic alliance. It began under President Clinton. It was developed under President Bush. And president-elect Obama has talked about enhancing that.
Certainly, think about this. That India recently signed a nuclear trade deal with the United States. It was a very important deal. In fact, the U.S. had to change its law to make an exception for that. I think ironically as India becomes more successful economically and politically and militarily around the world, the more it will come under the focus for terrorist groups like al-Qaeda.
And I think the election issue is very important. Because even when there is stability in India, even when there's peace, there are often violent incidents during election rallies. People end up getting killed. Now, you've got this terrorist attack. It's designed to try and stoke up communal conflict in India. It's trying to create that sectarian problem.
Because remember, India is the world's largest democracy. One billion people. There are a number of different ethnicities and religions. These terrorist groups are trying to exploit those cleavages. Unfortunately, they have had the success in the past.
It's a question of waiting and seeing. There's a suggestion that there's a Pakistan connection. If that does prove to be true, it will have very damaging ramifications for India's relationship with Pakistan.
JOHNS: Sajjan Gohel in London, thanks.
COSTELLO: Things, of course, are still developing.
GOHEL: My pleasure.
COSTELLO: Oh, thanks so much.
Things are still developing in Mumbai. We understand there are new explosions at the Chabad House, that Jewish center where an American rabbi and his wife are believed are being held hostage.
Our Nic Robertson is on the scene. We'll take you there after a break.
Also coming up on AMERICAN MORNING, both the president and the president-elect have responded on the crisis in Mumbai. Ahead, we'll take a look at the challenge facing the incoming Obama administration.
It's 20 minutes after the hour.
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ANNOUNCER: This is "CNN Breaking News."
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LT. GENERAL N. THAMBURAJ, INDIAN ARMY: Our operations had to be deliberate and slow because the life of the hostages and innocent residents in the hotel was of great importance to us.
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SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you guys, let's go. Just start rolling.
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COSTELLO: Now you could see those explosions still happening just a short time ago. We caught this as our cameras were rolling outside of the Taj Hotel. Indian commandos continue their raid on the building as hotel guests still holed up inside their rooms after some 43 hours.
In the meantime at the Chabad Jewish center, more gunfire and explosions there. A rabbi, Gabriel Holtzberg, and his family being held by terrorists and commandos. The commandos are on the roof of that building. That rabbi originally from Brooklyn, an American. Authorities are being slow and methodical trying to protect he and his family inside of that Jewish center. The death toll overall in Mumbai has reached 146.
We want to turn now to our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He is at the city's Jewish center, which as I said is still under siege, even as commandos try to stage a raid on the building.
Nic, bring us up to date.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, in the last 30 minutes, there was a very loud explosion, the biggest explosion. While we've been standing here, a big white flash with it. A lot of smoke came out of the building.
First, Scottie (ph) pans in over my shoulder now. You'll see more commandos on the roof of that building taking more aggressive postures that we've seen them do over the last few hours.
There's been an increase in gunfire. Perhaps you can hear the gunfire behind me now. But the impression and I have to say it's an impression at the moment that's being created, we don't have details, but the impression is of an increase of activity around this building, that large explosion. We saw the commandos hauling by ropes some heavy equipment to the roof.
We're seeing more commandos on the roof than we have seen in the last few hours. Some of them have got rocket propelled grenades with them, an increase in activity and it gives the impression that the security forces here, the commandos would like, perhaps, to take care of the situation, to deal with these attacks as these terrorists inside the building before it gets dark.
It is beginning to get dark here now. The light is dropping. But right now, that standoff is continuing as you can see on the roof there. Those commandos are on the fifth and fourth floors of the building, and it's believed it's on the third floor that's where the attackers and the rabbi's family are holed up at the moment, Carol.
COSTELLO: Well, these are very frightening pictures because, of course, as I've told our audience, the rabbi and his wife are originally from Brooklyn. They are Americans. They are with these terrorists. If these commandos storm this building, you know all sorts of things go through your mind, Nic.
ROBERTSON: Absolutely, they do. I'm talking to the residents of the building we're in right now. They know this family. They tell us that they're concerned about them. One of the reports that they had was when somebody fled the building during the initial attack almost 48 hours ago. When they fled that building, there was -- they thought that they could see the rabbi and his wife lying unconscious and that's perhaps the last snapshot we have of their situation. It really isn't clear.
We're not getting briefings at this location. There is an Israeli search and rescue team just around the corner from this building. They told us that they are on stand by, that they won't go into action here unless the Indian authorities give them permission to. But they say every time they hear an explosion, every time they hear the gunfire, it makes them shutter, because they want to get involved, they want to help. They don't know what's happening, and they have to stand back.
And really, that's the situation right now. It's just not clear what the state is of the rabbi and his family inside that building. As I say, residents where we're standing right now very concerned for the family. They know who live there. They know them well.
COSTELLO: And from what we understand, the rabbi and his wife have a 2-year-old child. The child managed to escape along with the cook, but there are other hostages as well inside the building. Can you tell us about them or is it just too hard to get that kind of information?
ROBERTSON: The information does seem to be sketchy, Carol. We've understood at various times for it to be the rabbi, his wife, the maid, who may or may not be the cook, and potentially two young children. One, perhaps a baby, one a young toddler, a 2-year-old as you describe.
There have been reports that a man was able to leave the house to get food but didn't go back. There were reports that one at least of those children were able to leave. Again, these are all unsubstantiated reports. And what we've seen here in Mumbai over the last 48 hours is that there have been conflicting reports, conflicting rumors. Later they turn out to be true. So it is very, very hard for us to give a clear picture of how many people remain with the rabbi, his wife and the attackers in there -- Carol.
COSTELLO: And I know the terrorists took over this Jewish center from the get-go. But was it targeted, you think, because an American rabbi ran this place or was it just strategically located next to those hotels and that's why they took it over?
ROBERTSON: It's in the same area as the hotels. The picture that's emerging of the attackers, the terrorist when they took over in the hotels is one where there are claims that they had done homework there, that they had done research. They created strong -- strong (INAUDIBLE) there. That they had a plan for going into those hotels. So they had a plan when they were kind of searching out American and British hostages in the building. So it does seem that there was a degree, a sufficient degree of planning.
This Jewish center is close to the hotel, perhaps half a mile from the Taj Mahal that I'm looking at over here. But it's not that close so it would definitely give a very clear impression that the attackers had singled out this building. Did they single it out because the rabbi was an American? Or did they single it out because it was a Jewish Center? That's not clear at this stage. It really isn't clear. And perhaps we'll only know the answer to that if the police and the commandos can capture some of the attackers in there alive -- Carol.
JOHNS: All right. Nic Robertson. Thank you so much. Stay safe. We're going to get back to you in just a few minutes. It is 30 minutes past the hour. More breaking news right now. Police killing terrorists and finding many victims, innocent victims this morning. CNN's Sara Sidner is live once again outside the Taj Hotel.
Sara, can you hear me?
SIDNER: Yes, I can, Joe.
JOHNS: I do see night is falling.
SIDNER: The situation is -
JOHNS: Sorry, Sara, go right ahead. I'll ask my questions later.
SIDNER: It's starting to get dark. No problem. It's about 6:00 p.m. Indian standard time. So, yes, it's starting to get dark. Things have quieted down a bit. But we've told you earlier on that there were several blasts.
You saw them live when we were speaking to you and Carol not too long ago, half an hour or so ago. The situation has changed a bit and as you know every hour or so it seems things get ratcheted up and then there's silence. And so, nobody knows what the commandos are doing at this hour but certainly still inside the Taj, the hotel and the scene is still quite active.
I'm going to move out of the way and just give you a look at the Taj Hotel, the majestic Taj, 105 years old. Earlier today, it looked like there were - that the commandos may be targeting one specific area. You're right in front of the camera, you're going to see the Mumbai Fire Brigade driving by, a few members of the Fire Brigade there.
But now back to the hotel. The first floor, the ground floor and then one floor up the first floor. On the first floor on the turret, the side, you're seeing a window there that has a curtain that's kind of coming out of it. You'll notice that it's blackened with soot.
That was a window where there were loud blasts, all of the glass came shattering out of that window and then two windows to the right of that basically the same thing, another loud blast, a series of gun shots and then the window shattered and you can see sort of the edge of that blackened a bit.
So it appeared that there was somehow, someone was targeting that area. We are not sure as to why, but as you might imagine after being told there's at least one suspected terrorist still inside this hotel, you may imagine that that may be where the terrorists might have been hiding out or where they suspected maybe some of the equipment or something that they might have been using.
We're still not clear, again, as to the number of people that might be inside. The information we're getting as to the guest, the people that were locked in their rooms, or even who could be possible survivors who are inside and dealing with this lone terrorist they are still saying may still be inside.
We're getting some of our information from people, family members who are hearing from the guests saying that yes, some of our family members have been let out and are safe. A bit frustrating for family members not knowing what's going on. Very frustrating for people who have been standing here and watching this and wondering how this is going to end. Joe and Carol.
JOHNS: We heard from Nic Robertson over at the Chabad Center that the authorities are concerned about night falling and trying to wrap up this operation before it becomes dark. Do you have a sense that that's what's happening at your location and is it perhaps there's no electricity in the building, it would be difficult to try to root someone out as it were in darkness?
SIDNER: I find that interesting because overnight last night they kept saying that this was done deal, it was pretty much over. And yet here we are the next day, 44 hours later still going through this. And maybe that is the case because remember here in the Taj they told people to go in their rooms, turn off all the lights.
So certainly they don't want anybody flicking a light on just so they can see, you know, where they are going in the lay of the land. That may well be the case and would make good sense. But still it's getting dark and it's getting dark quickly and we just heard another blast coming from inside of the Taj.
So, still an active scene. And every time we're told that things are coming to a close and it looks like things are getting wrapped up by authorities the complete opposite is the truth and we come to find out that it's still a very active scene. Many blasts going off. Gunfire and activity inside of the Taj. So, very difficult to know what is happening inside. We're all nervous for anyone who is still inside and don't know what their status is at this point. I have not heard from any particular folks who may still be inside locked in their rooms or possible hostages -- Joe.
JOHNS: I want to ask you about the way you're changing positions. Earlier in the program it seems to me if I got your camera angle correct, you're about where you were and that was when we had just a burst of activity. You moved back and now it appears that you've moved closer in again. Is that about right?
SIDNER: No. Here's what we've done. What appears is sort of a little bit of trick with the eye. We're standing between two vans. Basically so if there is a blast I can duck behind here. I'll just do it. It would be something I can just move here. Sort of duck down to make sure that we're safe or at least have something between us and the Taj.
Before we were sitting in a very open area where we were crouched down like this but we were very, very close, and we understand that there may have been a journalist that was injured that was sitting literally right next to me. I had just been there. We decided - our company and I had conversation. They said look we're concerned about the safety of our crew. Let's pull back.
And so we did and luckily we did in time. This has been a very, very difficult scene, difficult to know where it's safe and where it isn't safe. There are authorities out here talking to the media saying go back or come forward or move you're in danger. So not even in communication for those of us standing out here for the past couple of days.
JOHNS: Got it. Sara Sidner, stay safe and we'll be back in touch with you.
COSTELLO: In just a second we're going to go to Chicago and check in with Ed Henry. He's been talking with the Obama transition team. He'll bring us up to date with what the president-elect, how the president-elect has been communicating with President Bush. We'll be right back. It's 36 minutes past.
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COSTELLO: It is 39 minutes past the hour. Breaking news this morning. A rising death toll in Mumbai. Now more than 140 people dead and new deafening explosions at the Taj Hotel. Right now commandos are battling terrorists in hour 43 of this siege. Police say they took out two terrorists at the Oberoi Hotel and it is now under their control. Indian commandos came in the Jewish Center from the air trying to flush out the remaining terrorists and save the hostages there. So as you can see the situation in Mumbai still fast- moving and extremely dangerous.
A U.S. investigative team is being sent to the city. In the meantime President-elect Barack Obama is staying on top of the situation. Ed Henry is following that end of the story live in Chicago. Bring us up to date, Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Carol. You know when you talk to President-elect Barack Obama's staff they say this is obviously a fresh reminder of the national security challenges ahead for the incoming president.
And you can call this the first national security test for the president-elect as long as you add a big caveat which is that obviously he's not been sworn in as president yet so he can't take any actual action. Instead this is largely a test of images. He wants to show the American people that he's up to speed.
He's staying on top of the situation. And more importantly that he'll be able to hit the ground running in January after he is sworn in and be able to grapple with these challenges. Obviously specifically now in this region, India, Pakistan as you've been talking about all morning for the last couple of days. This is gravely important and all these horrific images are showing that this is yet another region in the world that is going to have to be paid very close attention to.
So what Barack Obama is doing in the short term is making sure that he's briefed, that he's getting all the information he can about the situation on the ground and he is getting a lot of cooperation from the Bush administration.
Yesterday here in Chicago on Thanksgiving for the second straight day he got a phone briefing from Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice. Later Barack Obama's staff put out a statement really thanking the Bush administration for their cooperation. The communication back and forth. It seems like both sides really want to make sure that during this transition period that the U.S. is speaking with one voice. And that there is nobody around the world confused about who is really in charge. And the fact that President Bush is still directing U.S. policy for now.
It's much like we've seen with the financial crisis, in fact in recent weeks. Where Barack Obama can't take any action on the U.S. economy right now but he has been trying to be briefed on the situation. He's spoken to President Bush, for example this very week about the Citigroup bailout. He's talked to the Fed chairman and he's been rolling out his financial team to say look come January 20th I'm going to have a team in place that can grapple with the financial crisis and in fact next week we're expecting Barack Obama to lay out his national security team. Obviously all eyes will be on that because of these horrific images we're seeing right now, Carol.
COSTELLO: I just want to ask you a question because you know the horrific images we're seeing in Mumbai could increase tensions even more between India and Pakistan. Couldn't President-elect Obama reach out to leaders of India and Pakistan even though he's not officially president of the United States yet?
HENRY: He can reach out to them on January 20th, I think, frankly. Because I think if he starts reaching out to them right now you're going to have some people around the world wondering is he trying to get ahead of President Bush. Is he second guessing President Bush?
I mean two days ago, back on the financial crisis, we had a press conference here in Chicago and a reporter asked the president-elect whether he wanted to raise any criticisms, any questions about the way the Bush administration has been managing the economy and he ducked that chance. He didn't want to pile on President Bush. He realizes his time as a lame duck is winding down. There's sort of no point in second guessing the administration right now.
The American people are looking for answers on the economy. They want a forward looking president-elect. And I think the same thing on the national security front as well. In the last couple of days Barack Obama did reach out to the Indian Ambassador to the United States, offered his condolences a couple of days ago.
He said obviously he wants to make sure that the U.S. is speaking with one voice et cetera. But if he started reaching out to the Indian Prime Minister there will be some people wondering wait a second President Bush did that yesterday at Camp David. Is there any difference here? Is he trying to interfere. It's very awkward as you can tell in this transition period. And I think the incoming administration is trying to do all it can to show it can be up to speed on the situation but not step on any toes. Carol.
COSTELLO: Ed Henry live in Chicago. Thanks.
JOHNS: For 43 hours terror has gripped Mumbai. We're live on the ground in India with the breaking developments.
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DEEPAK DATTA, WITNESS: Maybe it hasn't hit as much, not yet. But I don't think it has only reinforced My faith in god, family, friends and also that, you know, from here and we have to be resilient and I also saw what 9/11 did in the U.S. and everybody didn't just hide in their houses. The life went on. Because if you hide then you're giving the terrorists the biggest victory they are looking for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: No clear victory yet in the terrorist siege in Mumbai. Nearly two days after the attacks began, explosions and gunfire are still being heard at the Taj Mahal Hotel where at least one terrorist is still holed up. Commandos engage there at this moment.
The situation is still changing at the Jewish chabad house where at least two gunmen are still inside. Explosions and gunfire have also been heard there during the past hour. But the standoff at the Oberoi Hotel is apparently over, after two terrorists were killed. More bodies have now been recovered from the hotel, raising the death toll in the attacks to at least 146.
The situation remains so tense at the Taj, Sara and her crew are still staying away for safety. Here's what she had to tell us just a little while ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: Two very large explosions just blasted. We all ducked and we have now decided to move back a bit. I mean this situation just seems to be getting more and more out of control. Now there are - you'll see journalists suddenly crowding around. And I'm not sure what they are crowding around at this point in time. But not sure. I think they were calling, possibly an ambulance over to that area. So, we're not going to get into that. We're not going to get ourselves sort of tangled up in that.
But I do want you to take a look at the Taj. We have just gotten some word, I just got a text message from family members who have been speaking to their family members inside and they believed they have been holed out safely. They don't know where they have been taken. So apparently Americans, four people have been sort of pulled out to safety who were inside of that hotel.
But, we definitely have a serious situation here. I mean, it's constantly going. Lots of loud bangs. Lots of gunfire. Somebody has been wounded. It is official. Our bureau chief in Delhi Phil Turner had just told me that crowds of cameras you're seeing, those crowds that are following, this person has been wounded. We're not sure if that person was, I think they were sitting maybe a journalist sitting outside of the Taj just where we were two minutes ago. We backed off 100 feet from that situation. But it is definitely a very liquid and dangerous situation right now.
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COSTELLO: Sara Sidner from Mumbai. With new threats fresh on everybody's mind and images of past attacks seared into our memories, a "Memo to the next president" in stopping European extremists from exporting terrorist. It's 49 minutes past the hour.
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COSTELLO: And breaking news this morning, things getting very serious in Mumbai as commandos make a last ditch effort to capture the holed outs from a band of terrorists. At the Taj Mahal Hotel, dramatic pictures unfolding right Now. Here on AMERICAN MORNING, one explosion after another rocked the hotel. The explosions then followed by rapid sessions of gunfire. Military sharp shooters and commandos also storming the Chabad Center where here after 44 hours the bullets are still flying. The latest from our reporters on the ground in just a minute.
JOHNS: And as we watch and monitor the terror attacks in India, the homeland has not been hit since 9/11. But attacks overseas have taken a bloody toll on our allies particularly in Europe. It's now Barack Obama's job to keep the terrorists from moving further west.
CNN's Paula Newton has the latest "Memo to the President."
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PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Mr. President, you said national security is your priority, well, keeping America safe means stopping European extremists before they export terror across the pond.
JACQUI SMITH, BRITISH HOME SECRETARY: We see a serious and sustained threat from international terrorism from a series of not just individuals but networks.
NEWTON: We have been tracking terror plots all over Europe for more than three years. The FBI dubbed it operation Northern Exposure. From Denmark, an Al Qaeda inspired plot -
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was rumored this train station was one of the target.
NEWTON: To Belgium and home-grown female suicide bombers. A Muslim convert only too willing to prove herself as an unwavering soldier of jihad. The Madrid train bombing of 2004 showed just how widespread terrorism had become her in Europe. It wasn't just the remote control slaughter or all the fear and anxiety that it bred. And so Europe faced a new reality. Home grown terrorists, plotting to attack their own.
Seven suspects blew themselves up in a stand off with police. More threats, more plots ever since. Evidence as laid out in court documents charged that two of three possible suicide attackers arrived in Spain within the last few weeks directly from training camps in Pakistan.
And the threat in Germany.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The leading motto of the groups in Germany is the profound hatred of U.S. citizens.
NEWTON: An alleged plot last year to target American military personnel and their families.
The threat of an attack here in Europe against Americans and others is as high as it has ever been since 9/11.
German authorities warn the threat remains real.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We always have to work on the basis that an attack will be executed successfully here in Germany.
NEWTON: And then to Britain.
PETER CLARKE, FORMER BRITISH COUNTERTERROR CHIEF: There is no intelligence whatsoever that we're going to be attacked in this way.
NEWTON: British intelligence say they are still tracking as many as 2,000 suspects, 200 networks and more than two dozen plots. Mr. President, Europe's security chiefs want you to know this.
SMITH: We've had success. We've brought people to justice. We're clear about what we need to do, but this is a threat that has not gone away.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: The reality is that a terrorist attack is just as likely to come from the shores of Europe as it would come from the mountains of Afghanistan, Pakistan or the mosque of the Middle East. Joe.
JOHNS: Paula, there are media reports this morning that the British foreign office is investigating claims that Britons were among the attackers in Mumbai?
Can you tell me about that? NEWTON: Yes, I can. Actually the foreign office refuses to comment right now. They're saying they're not investigating it mainly because this is information that CNN has just learned, we've learned of this -- really we learned of this in the early hours of the Mumbai attacks. We were quite skeptical of the information but intelligence sources here tell us that the reason so many Scotland Yard detectives are right now on the ground in Mumbai and the reason they are on the plane so quickly is because they have been told that perhaps one or two of the terrorists is of British origin. Does that mean they were raised in Britain? Does that mean they have British passports?
No one knows but as my report showed Joe, we don't know where the threat can come from. What the British community knows here is that the threat exists and that these people have these passports. They do use them and they can travel more easily with those passports and that that may be an element in all of this. Certainly it brings the message to President elect Obama right back home again. Europe remains a problem.
JOHNS: Yes. There are also U.S. authorities on the ground as well in Mumbai, too. We were given that information today. But let me go back to that. What you're telling us essentially is that the early reports were that Americans and Britons were among the targets and now we learned that there's at least a possibility that Britons were among the attackers. Your question you seem to be raising with us right now is whether these were simply people holding perhaps British passports.
NEWTON: It's hard to know really at this point in time. Because obviously I can tell you that intelligence on the ground in India got this information from one of the captured militants. We had this information very early on. I can count the hours for you. Our intelligence sources were telling us about this within six hours of the attacks being launched in Mumbai. It is a very serious line of inquiry right now for them.
The British intelligence community here has a lot of experience with this, in terms of trying to figure out who is funneling expertise, money, perhaps trying keep a terror pipeline open to these kinds of conflicts going on in India, in Kashmir, in Pakistan. The problem is here is what the worst fear to British authorities is that perhaps Britons from here were dispatched to execute this in Mumbai. We do not have anything to substantiate those whatsoever at this time.
But as we said, we got this information very soon after the attacks were launched. We didn't have anything to really point to us proof, but now, we do have that substantiated from the Indian authorities on the ground.
JOHNS: Paula Newton, I know you will be keeping up with that side of the story. Thanks so much for your reporting.
