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CNN Saturday Morning News

More Details of India Situation

Aired November 29, 2008 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN, ANCHOR: Hello, everybody from the CNN Center here in Atlanta, I'm Betty Nguyen. And this is CNN SATURDAY MORNING, November 29th.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN, ANCHOR: Yes. Good morning to you all. I'm T.J. Holmes. We're going to start with that story out of Mumbai, the three days of terror, we understand now are over. However, a lot of anger still in that city and India is brewing.

NGUYEN: Absolutely and a lot of people asking how could two dozen terrorists slip into the city and attack several locations including some of the major hotels there. Here's what we know about that.

HOLMES: Yes. First here, the siege began on Wednesday of course, three days ago now. It happened shortly after noon Eastern time, it was 10:30 at night in Mumbai. It did not end until some 60 hours later. Now the word from Indian officials that 183 people were killed. That's a revised number. They had reported 195 killed but now the revised number from the Indian officials is that 183 were actually killed, about 300 injured and among the dead five Americans. So still a lot of information about these various attacks, a lot of information we've been getting over the past several days. CNN's David Mattingly now takes us through the timeline of events.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bursts of gunfire, grenade attacks and death.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was dark and there was blood all over the steps.

MATTINGLY: Within moments, Mumbai, a city of 18 million is under siege. The timeline of terror begins Wednesday evening between 8:00 and 9:00 p.m.. The killers enter from the harbor, arriving in dinghies. "Newsweek" magazine reports the militants encounter fishermen, telling them to mind their own business before splitting up into small groups and fanning out across Mumbai. Their targets, luxury hotels, a hospital, cafes, the Chabad House, a Jewish center, and a train station. Around 9:30 p.m. the highly coordinated suicide attack is under way.

VOICE OF CAROL MACKOFF, TERROR ATTACK SURVIVOR: We heard shots. We saw men running down our hallway and we could see through the peep hole in the door. We could see guns in their hands. They actually rang our doorbell two times.

MATTINGLY: Within the next few hours, the horror sets in.

ANTHONY ROSE, WITNESSED FIRST ATTACK: They were using hand grenades to try to blow in doors and then they seemed to retreat from that and go to other areas of the hotel. We could hear people, it seemed like, being dragged up to the roof of the hotel.

MATTINGLY: During that first night, the gunmen killed dozens, injure hundreds and take scores of hostages. Early Thursday morning, the fight intensifies. Explosions rock the Taj Mahal Hotel and a huge plume of smoke rises into the night. By day break, the terror remains. Gunmen continue to hold hostages. Some are freed by soldiers and police officers.

PATRICIA SCOTT, TERROR ATTACK SURVIVOR: Everybody grabbed hand and it was a woman's heel. She was still standing there. And you knew people that died before as we were walking out.

MATTINGLY: Friday the assault on the Trident Oberoi Hotel ends with at least two extremists dead and more than a hundred guest free. But there are casualties. Among the killed, two Americans, Alan Scherr and his 13-year-old daughter Naomi. At the Chabad house where government forces have surrounded the building the standoff ends. When officers enter the center they find two gunmen dead. They also recover the bodies of five hostages. David Mattingly, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: At least five Americans were killed in the Mumbai attack. They include as you saw there Alan Scherr and his 13-yearold daughter Naomi. They were part of a group on a meditation pilgrimage to the city. The group is called the Synchronicity Foundation. Set up a website now of people from all over the world posting messages to honor the dad and his daughter and also members of the Hasidic Jewish community mourning a rabbi and his wife who were killed in the attacks. The bodies of Rabbi Gabriel Holsberg and his wife were found in the Chabad house, its the Jewish Community Center. These two were from New York originally. The couple's nanny actually managed to get their toddler out of danger.

NGUYEN: Well Pakistan is denying any involvement in the Mumbai attacks. There were reports that cell phones found on a boat after the attacks had made calls to Pakistan. This morning the country's foreign minister had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHAH MAHMOOD QURESHI, PAKISTAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Pakistan is not involved in this ghastly act. And that is why we do not have to be on the defensive and we are not on the defensive. Extending cooperation and the fact that after the incident that I remained on Indian soil for three days and I faced the Indian electronic and print media head- on, arguing and articulating the case of Pakistan is a case in point that the government of Pakistan is not offensive.

(END VIDEOTAPE) NGUYEN: Well police are now looking for any booby traps left behind by the terrorists. The 60 hours of terror did end and the 100-year- old Taj Mahal Hotel, you see it right there was the pride of the city. Our Matthew Chance joins us by phone from Mumbai. Matthew, as we look at this building just burning there, what's the latest in the investigation? Any word on who is behind this?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONALS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the hotels - the landmark Taj Mahal Intercontinental Hotel and that was mentioned and the other hotel, Oberoi are now crime scenes. Police and investigators from the Indian government are on the ground in considerable numbers sifting through what is the wreckage of the Taj Mahal Hotel, that landmark building, 100 years old as you mentioned. Really the militants who attacked that and held so many people, the hostages, is striking at the heart of India's financial capital, the city of Mumbai. There are still a great deal of activity around those two hotels but still being sealed off from the media and of course from the public as well as security forces continue, particularly in the Taj Hotel, to go through from room to room. It's a big building. There are more than 400 guest rooms. Going from room to room trying to make sure there aren't any booby traps, to make doubly sure that all of the militants have been moved out as the threats have been removed, rather. And of course, there aren't any survivors, any dead bodies still left in the hotel.

NGUYEN: Yes. And the death toll has been changed a little bit this morning. 183 dead now. That's been lowered from earlier reports. But a lot of this is still very fluid. As you say, they're going through the hotels and really trying to see if there is any kind of explosive devices there. And apparently we understand they may have come across additional bodies and that would add to the death toll here. But in the meantime, though, there is an investigation under way. What do you know about that?

CHANCE: Well - coming out from the authority is a confirmed 195 people have been killed as a result of that. The investigation, in terms of who's to blame for this, well (inaudible)

NGUYEN: Matthew, we're going to have to - unfortunately, your audio line is not a very good one at this time. It's kind of hard to hear you. We'll check in with you a little bit later this morning. But as has been noted, the investigation is obviously still under way. And the big question today is not only what can they find as they do those sweeps at the hotel, but who is behind this. And that's something a lot of people really want to get to the heart of.

HOLMES: That will be a big question. We've had people on the past couple of days saying it's only going to take a while o this investigation. One former CIA operative said you know what I wouldn't be surprised if we never find out who is responsible for this.

NGUYEN: Really.

HOLMES: So t investigation started, the FBI involved, the U.S. and other, intelligence officials from all over the world. But also all over the world people are sharing their thoughts and concerns about the attacks there and using as always our i-reports.

NGUYEN: Absolutely and our Josh Levs is keeping an eye on those I- reports this morning. Join us with some of them. Hi, Josh.

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey Heidi. It fits right in with what you were talking about there. I got a lot of i-reporters whoa re weighing in with different ideas who might be behind this. Also, let's zoom in for a second. I want you to see this reactions to Mumbai attacks. This is main site of ireport.com where we are showing a lot of people whoa re weighing in, what they have to say about this. In some cases people with personal background in the region or family background are trying to share thoughts on what the region is like and how that might have played into these attacks. Let's take a look at this i-report video from Jimmy Deol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IREPORTER JIMMY DEOL, TORONTO, ONTARIO: This type of groups trying to define a cause for their existence or the type of cowardly acts that they do, these ideologies of these groups are rooted into that religious divide that goes as far back as 1947.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEVS: And by 1947 he's referring to the partition way back then, India and Pakistan. You can get a lot more information on that at cnn.com. We also invite you, no matter what your perspective is or what your view is what happened, who might be behind it. Weigh in here. It's interesting to see what people have to say, particularly if you have insight into the region. I-report.com, send in your photos, your videos, your stories and guys, we'll be back later this morning with more of them.

NGUYEN: Thank you. In the meantime though, commandos go up against well trained terrorists. So how do the attackers make their deadly moves in Mumbai? Well our security analyst has some details on that. Also, an amazing rescue after 48 hours of absolute terror, surviving a terrorist attach and sharing the story, we have it for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Well rescued after 48 hours of terror. Carol Mackoff was trapped in the Taj Mahal Hotel with her family now and she was finally rescued by the Indian Army. And now she is telling her story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VOICE OF CAROL MACKOFF, RESCUED FROM THE TAJ MAHAL HOTEL: They were young. They all seemed to have like red and blue backpacks that were probably, you now we're assuming now were stuffed with grenade or some sort of explosive devices. We could see the barrel of the guns. They were running down the hall. And one of them had a cell phone and was conversing with somebody. He was definitely getting instructions from somebody or coordinating with somebody.

When we were evacuated today at 3:00 in the afternoon the Indian army was amazing. The commandos were fabulous. They had to take us out six at a time and only what we could carry and they took us down a back service stairway very quiet, tiptoeing through broken glass and blood. And I understand that the kitchen crew had been shot completely. They killed a lot of receptionists. These young, lovely receptionists who were so warm and friendly. Everything seemed to be a travesty. Things that we just can't imagine. Screams that you never want to hear again in your life. It was a terrible experience.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Well as we know, there had long been tensions between India and Pakistan and knew it wouldn't be long before the blame and attention turned to Pakistan. At first India chose its words pretty carefully suggesting that the attackers had some kind of a Pakistani connection. But over that past 60 hours or so now the words have become a bit more bold. Of course India and Pakistan have a long history of being plain spoken. And at the heart of the decades-old conflict, Kashmir.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES (voice-over): So long as there's been an India and a Pakistan, there's been trouble over Kashmir. Ownership and control over a rugged region of mountains and valleys the size of Kansas is head and shoulders the main reason India and Pakistan have been at each other's throats for 60-plus years. The last 18 of which have been especially deadly. 43,000 people dead. Back in the 1940s, India and Pakistan fought the first war over Kashmir. There would be two more with both countries developing nuclear weapons in the meantime. Cease-fires, skirmishes, and cross border attacks, some incursions and pullbacks, all as attempts at peace talks between India and Pakistan often failed over the sticky subject of Kashmir.

Now some analysts believe there could be a link between the attacks in Mumbai and the militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba. That's the organization one called one of the biggest and best trained groups fighting against India control of Kashmir.

Reva Bhalla is really the one who knows the region and who knows it well and an expert of terrorism trends. Director of (Analysis) that's an online publisher of geopolitical intelligence and joins us today from Austin, Texas. Ma'am, thank you so much for giving us time and lending us your expertise. Tell me the tactics and the targets of these terrorists. What does that tell you?

REVA BHALLA, SOUTHEAST ASIA ANALYST: The first thing it tells us is this attack was unlike anything we have seen before from the islamist militant groups operating in India so far. This involved completely different tactics. You didn't need a skilled bomb maker. What you did need was scores of armed gunmen with AK-47s, grenades, very well armed going room to room targeting very high value targets, diplomats, corporate executives, five star hotels and the Israeli Jewish organization, the Chabad house. This target site is very strategic and got the whole world's attention on India right now. And you had men who are willing to die on a suicide mission. That takes a ton of preoperational surveillance, coordination, planning, that we haven't seen so much from the indigenous group that have been operating in India so far.

HOLMES: So again, those targets you mentioned meant to get the world's attention. To get the attention, you've got it now. And what is the point? What are they trying to say to the world?

BHALLA: Well first you have to look back at who is behind this. And obviously this is a very complex operation and the answer as to who was behind it is equally as complex. So one you have the more domestic elements tied to the Kashmir cause who are trying to get the Indian and the Pakistani governments to react and create a national crisis. This boosts their recruitment. It gets the attention on them, revives their cause.

HOLMES: They need conflict in order for them to stay alive and viable?

BHALLA: Exactly. The second element is the external link tracing back to Pakistan. And there you have rogue elements of interservices intelligence agency as well as Al Qaeda in Pakistan who are trying to destabilize Pakistan to further develop Pakistan as launch pad for militant jihad.

HOLMES: And so it sounds like a lot of people had to, if you have will, cooperate and coordinate. Are these usual suspects, if you will - we don't know for sure yet but are they usual suspects who now using new tactics? Or are these - is this some new group with a new mentality and we could see more fresh attacks and things we haven't seen before?

BHALLA: Not necessarily a new group, but an unprecedented level of cooperation amongst all these groups. So the islamist militant groups operating in India, before they were really focused on trying to incite Hindu-Muslim tensions again just like what we saw back in 1993 and 2002. That wasn't panning out quite as they planned so they needed to shift to a more strategic target set. That probably involved a lot of outside cooperation because the training, the coordination, the sophistication of this attack had to involve an external link. That could not have all happened inside India itself.

HOLMES: All right. Again, Reva Bhalla. Again it's good to have you here. Glad we were able to get you on. And again this is hard to explain all these. These are decades-old history and conflict between some of these people and some of these countries in this region. We appreciate your time and your expertise this morning. Thank you so much and we're going to be chatting with you again a little bit this morning. Again trying to explain to folks the decades - really, the tension has been around for a long time. Peace in that region is so crucial, so we will be trying to delve into this a little more and the history of that region a little more in our 10:00 hour.

NGUYEN: Americans targeted. The Mumbai attacks highlighting the threat outside the Middle East. Putting the focus on new terror targets.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) NGUYEN: President-elect Barack Obama says the coordinated attacks demonstrate the urgent threat of terrorism and highlight the need for strong partnerships around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well CNN international security correspondent Paula Newton has a global view in the fight against terror. Mr. President, you've said national security is your priority. Well, keeping America safe means stopping European extremists before they export terror across the pond.

JACQUI SMITH, BRITISH HOME SECRETARY: This has a serious and sustained threat from international terrorism, from a series of not just individuals but networks.

NEWTON: We have been tracking terror plots all over Europe for more than three years. The FBI dubbed it Operation Northern Exposure. From Denmark, an Al Qaeda inspired plots -

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: It was rumored this train station was one of the targets.

NEWTON: To Belgium and the home-grown female suicide bombers.

A Muslim convert only too willing to prove herself as an unwavering soldier of jihad.

The Madrid train bombing of 2004 showed how widespread terrorism has become here in Europe.

It wasn't just the remote-controlled slaughter or all the fear and anxiety that it bred.

Until Europe faced a new reality, home-grown terrorists plotting to attack their own. Seven suspects blew themselves up in a standoff with police. More threats, more plots ever since.

Evidence is laid out in court documents charge that two of three possible suicide attackers arrived in Spain within the last few weeks directly from training camps in Pakistan.

And the threat in Germany.

JORG ZIERCKE, GERMAN FEDERAL POLICE: The leading motive of the group in Germany is the profound hatred of U.S. citizens.

NEWTON: An alleged plot last year to target American military personnel and their families.

VERJEE: The threat of an attack here in Europe against Americans and others is as high as it has ever been since 9/11.

NEWTON: German authorities warned the threat remains real.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (through translator: we have to work on the basis that an attack will be executed successfully here in Germany.

NEWTON: And then to Britain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no intelligence whatsoever that we were going to be attacked in this way.

NEWTON: British intelligence say they are still tracking as many as 2,000 suspects, 200 networks and more than two dozen plots. Mr. President, Europe's security chiefs want you to know this.

SMITH: We've had success. We've brought people to justice. We're clear about what more we need to do. But this is a threat that hasn't gone away.

NEWTON: The single biggest threat to national security may not come from Pakistan, Afghanistan or the Middle East but from Europeans with easy access to America. CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: All right. They're coming home from space now. The shuttle astronauts they are taking their final turns around the earth right about now.

NGUYEN: Finally they're coming home, getting an extra day, though, to enjoy the view.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAREN MAGINNIS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: And good morning, everyone. I'm CNN meteorologist Karen Maginnis. Problems at some airports but we think that this is going to increase as we go into the next 24 to 48 hours. Both for Atlanta where there's going to be lots of volume and right now because of reduced visibility there are departure delays running about 30 minutes. Could be as much as an hour as we get into later in the morning.

San Francisco they're saying visibility could be 500 feet or less, so dense fog in some of those coastal areas. We're watching an area of low pressure across the midwest develop. That will be a major snowmaker as we go late into the day on Sunday going into Monday. That is the critical travel day. Right now, temperatures in Chicago, only in the 20s. By this afternoon, we could see a little bit of light snow in Kansas City, St. Louis, also into Omaha. It could be a rain/snow mix.

We could see some of the northern suburbs of Atlanta pick up a little bit of snowfall in the next 24 to 36 hours. On Sunday, in Los Angeles, 81 degrees in breezy, New York City 46. We'll keep you up to date. Betty, T.J. back to you.

NGUYEN: Thank you, Karen. The Space Shuttle astronauts are still waiting to find out if they can finally come home. "Endeavour" scheduled to land at the Kennedy Space Center on Sunday around 1:15 in the afternoon. HOLMES: Yes. Right now NASA scientists are looking over pictures this morning of the shuttle's heat shield. They want to make sure nothing damaged the tiles during their two-week mission and they can reenter safely.

NGUYEN: Well they did make it out alive and now they are telling their stories.

HOLMES: Yes. Talking about survivors of the terror attacks in Mumbai. We're talking to them. A lot of feedback from them. A lot of those stories still coming in. We'll continue to share those with you.

But first, "Open House" with Gerri Willis starts right now.