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Nancy Grace
Jennifer Hudson`s Brother-in-Law Arrested in Family Murders
Aired December 01, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Jane, there is breaking news tonight. As you mentioned, "American Idol" superstar Jennifer Hudson`s mother and brother murdered in their own home. Well, just hours ago, an arrest. We are live in children.
And Jane, in the search for a missing Florida girl, 3-year-old Caylee, bombshell documents just released. We discover highly incriminated new Google searches on the tot mom`s computer -- neck-breaking, shovels, death, household weapons and how to make chloroform. Also tonight, the tot mom`s text messages, Jane, all to her live-in, show her big concern -- what happens to her if Caylee is never found?
Breaking news tonight. "American Idol" superstar turned Oscar-winner devastated, Jennifer Hudson`s mother and brother brutally murdered in their own home. The "American Idol" star breaks the bank, offering a $100,000 reward for her 7-year-old nephew, kidnapped from the scene, only to learn the little boy confirmed dead. Murder weapon, a P20 Sig-Sauer .45-caliber discovered in a vacant lot just yards from the 7-year-old boy found dead. As we go to air, finally, an arrest for murder one goes down. Jennifer Hudson, "American Idol," American "Dreamgirl," American nightmare.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the murders of Oscar-winning actress Jennifer Hudson`s family. Police have arrested 27-year-old William Balfour in connection with the murders of Hudson`s mother, brother and 7- year-old nephew, Julian King. Balfour, who is Hudson`s brother-in-law, was already being held at Statesville (ph) prison for a technical parole violation and now is expected to be formally charged for the three deaths. The bodies of Hudson`s mother, Darnell Donerson, and brother, Jason Hudson, were found October 24 inside the family`s home. Seven-year-old Julian`s body was found shot to death three days later in an SUV on Chicago`s West Side.
MICHELLE DAVIS BALFOUR, MOTHER OF ACCUSED: She called him at 2:31. She talked to him. I called him from work at 5:30 this morning. I called my son. I texted my son. My son called us back. So if you committed a murder, why would you call back?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, police desperately searching for a beautiful 3- year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen 24 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell. Over 700 pages of stunning new documents just released. They reveal new and highly incriminating Google searches on the tot mom`s computer, including neck breaking, shovels, household weapons, death, and lost (ph) numbers, also how to make the powerful and deadly sedative chloroform right there in your own home. We know significant amounts of that powerful chemical solution discovered by the FBI in mom Casey`s car trunk.
Also tonight, the tot mom`s text messages to her live-in. So her big concern? What happens to her if Caylee is never found? And the whole old pizza theory completely debunked tonight. It turns out there was no pizza in the tot mom`s trunk, after all this, just evidence of human decomposition, along with chloroform.
And tonight, grandmother Cindy goes to the feds, claiming her e-mail account has been hacked. And finally, a physical description of the so- called nanny the tot mom claims kidnapped little Caylee, this as new photos of little Caylee emerge. Tonight, where is Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking developments come out of newly-released documents in the case of missing toddler Casey (SIC) Anthony. In over 700 pages, investigators disclose the Anthony family computer was used to search phrases like neck-breaking, how to make chloroform, and making weapons out of household products. Deeper into the documents a text message conversation between Anthony and boyfriend Tony Lazzaro emerges. At the time, Caylee was publicly discovered missing, Anthony insisting she left Caylee with the nanny.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S MOTHER: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re worried that if we find that out, that people are going to look at you the wrong way?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`re telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission and hasn`t returned her.
CASEY ANTHONY: She`s the last person that I`ve seen with my daughter, yes.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Closing with, quote, "If they don`t find her, guess who gets blamed and spends an eternity in jail?"
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Well, whose fault is you sitting in the jail? Are you blaming me that you`re sitting in the jail?
CASEY ANTHONY: It`s not my fault.
CINDY ANTHONY: Blame yourself for telling lies. What do you mean it`s not your fault?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: We put a plate down, and I gave (INAUDIBLE) I lost it. And I just -- I couldn`t sit at the table for a few moments.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight. An arrest for murder one finally goes down in the shooting deaths of Oscar winner "American Idol" star Jennifer Hudson`s mother, brother and 7-year-old little nephew.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An arrest made in the murders of Jennifer Hudson`s family. Police announce they have arrested Hudson`s brother-in-law, 27- year-old William Balfour, in connection with the murders. Hudson`s mother and brother were found shot to death inside the family home just over a month ago, and Hudson`s 7-year-old nephew, Julian King, was found murdered three days later inside an SUV. Balfour was transferred to Chicago police custody today, and is expected to be formally charged in the coming hours. Balfour is the estranged husband of Hudson`s sister, Julia. He was already being held in prison on a technical parole violation stemming from a 1999 attempted murder conviction.
BALFOUR: My son`s alibi was with one of his girlfriends, OK, one of the girls that he`s dating. My oldest son, which is Raymond (ph), his brother, has told me he was with Diana (ph) that night and he was with Kate (ph) in the morning. Now, that`s what he had told me. My son told me this, OK? If William did do this, right, no means am I going to sugarcoat anything. My son didn`t do it. I know my son didn`t do this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Susan Roesgen, CNN correspondent, standing by there in Chicago. Susan, what`s the latest?
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the latest is, as you just heard, Nancy, that the Chicago police did say that they have this arrest warrant now for William Balfour. They presented it right away today to the Illinois state jail, where he was locked up on this parole violation, alleged parole violation. They immediately transferred him to the Chicago PD lock-up. He has been locked up, Nancy, now since the murders, about a month-and-a-half, since October 24.
GRACE: Well, what do they have now they didn`t have at the very beginning?
ROESGEN: Well, you know, they haven`t told us exactly what they have, but we do know from his first parole hearing last month, just a couple of weeks ago, they brought up the various little charges, you know, that he didn`t talk to his parole officer, he didn`t do this, he didn`t do that, as to why they should keep him locked up in the Illinois state jail.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That`s a smokescreen.
ROESGEN: Well, the kicker...
GRACE: It means absolutely nothing. Because I told you on day one, Susan Roesgen, in all my years as a prosecutor, you do not pick up a parolee because they miss a meeting. You know those jails are full, Susan, full of murderers, rapists, child molesters, drug dealers. You don`t want to take up a cot for somebody that missed an appointment, all right?
ROESGEN: Right.
GRACE: So there has to be more...
ROESGEN: Here`s the kicker.
GRACE: ... to it. But what is it?
ROESGEN: Well, they got the local prosecutor, someone from his office, to go there to this parole hearing and say that a girlfriend -- now, a girlfriend -- apparently, William Balfour had more than one -- that a girlfriend has said, Nancy, that she saw William Balfour with the gun that matched the .45 that was used in the murders. However, that girl herself did not come forward. It was simply what the prosecutor said there. And you have to wonder, Nancy, did this girl somehow become an instant expert on what a gun looks like?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Hold on. Hold on. Susan, Susan, Susan, I couldn`t hear you. She said she saw what?
ROESGEN: She saw William Balfour with a gun that she claims matches the gun that was used in the murders. I assume the cops must have said, It was this gun, right? And she said, Right.
GRACE: OK, now, what`s your problem with her not coming forward? You very typically do not have witnesses at a parole hearing. Parole hearings, Susan Roesgen, are not like full-blown jury trials. They are more akin to grand jury hearings or bench trials, where the judge or the parole officers hear evidence. It`s not like a big trial. So what`s the problem with the prosecutor coming forward with that evidence, as opposed to the girlfriend?
ROESGEN: Because there`s something smelly about it.
GRACE: Really, what?
ROESGEN: Why didn`t you come forward with this a month-and-a-half ago? Well, he could have said anything. He could have said that...
GRACE: Well, typically...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... as a result of police work, such as going out and finding the girlfriend, and showing her the weapon. Things like that don`t happen overnight. It takes time to track her down. Even the mother, when I had her right here on this show, only knew some of the girlfriends` first names. It takes a while, Susan. And let me ask you this, Susan Roesgen. You think that is smelly? You think it`s more smelly than three dead bodies, Susan?
ROESGEN: Yes, I do because I was a victim of an armed robbery, Nancy...
GRACE: Really? So you think the girlfriend coming forward and identifying the gun is worse circumstances than the three dead bodies? Good to know. Susan...
ROESGEN: Who knows if she really did? Who knows if she really did? This isn`t a trial, Nancy, as you pointed out. It was just his word. And poor Balfour has not had a lawyer from day one. No representation, Nancy, to tell him to keep his mouth shut.
GRACE: Hold on. Did I just hear you say "poor Balfour?" Did I hear that?
ROESGEN: I don`t know. I said this guy.
GRACE: You said it.
ROESGEN: We have to roll it back.
GRACE: Actually, you said it.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I want to go to Kathy Chaney...
ROESGEN: I`m not sure they`ve got the right guy.
GRACE: ... from "The Chicago Defender," joining us. Kathy Chaney, Balfour arrested, murder one, in the triple slaying of "American Idol" superstar Jennifer Hudson`s family. What do we know is on that arrest warrant? Does it give away any of the facts that would lead to his arrest?
KATHY CHANEY, "CHICAGO DEFENDER": Actually, it does not. And it actually doesn`t have the charges yet. When I talked to the state`s attorneys office and the Chicago Police Department about 20 minutes ago, they said charges are pending and they have yet to determine a bond hearing. Usually, in Chicago, when a person is arrested, they have within 48 hours to charge them. So we can expect some formal charges within 48 hours.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. An arrest just going down in the triple slaying of "American Idol" superstar Jennifer Hudson`s family.
Let`s unleash the lawyers as we take your calls. Joining us tonight, Christine Grillo, prosecutor, Carmen St. George, defense attorney, Mickey Sherman, veteran trial lawyer and author of "How Can You Defend Those People?"
To Christine Grillo. Christine, it`s great to have you with us.
CHRISTINE GRILLO, PROSECUTOR: Thank you.
GRACE: First of all, when an arrest warrant goes down, the offense is named on the arrest warrant.
GRILLO: Yes. But the arrest warrant, as you know, Nancy is based on probable cause for arrest. So all they need is probable cause, so that`s basically all they`ll have to include on any kind of arrest warrant. And in doing that, then I think they`re doing everything properly. They have their evidence. They`re going to do it properly before the grand jury, and they`re going to get their charges in order.
GRACE: But what I`m -- my point is, Christine -- I`m not disagreeing with you, but my point is, in response to Kathy Chaney, who says charges haven`t come down yet so we don`t know why he was arrested, the reason he was arrested is on the arrest warrant. You can`t just arrest somebody and say, We`ll tell you why later.
So to Susan Roesgen, CNN correspondent there in Chicago. Susan, why was he arrested? It`s for murder, correct?
ROESGEN: Right. Three charges. Three counts.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chicago police found a body in the back of this stolen SUV, and confirmed it was Hudson`s nephew. It is a terrible blow for the big city star with home-town roots, the "Dreamgirl" who could not have dreamed of such personal tragedy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just a terribly sad story here. That makes three murders in Jennifer Hudson`s family. The woman, who is from Chicago, she`s considered a local girl, was working at a Burger King when she first auditioned for "American Idol." Now she`s become a big, big star, of course, but she said that she always came home to her family`s home, this place where her mother and brother and sister and the boy all lived.
JENNIFER HUDSON, SINGER/ACTRESS: I`ve always had a positive upbringing and positive people around me, you know? So that definitely helped out. And even when I feel down or feel like I don`t want to do this anymore, I can`t do it anymore, my mother was there to say, You know what? This is what you love to do. You have to hold onto that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: "American Idol" superstar turned Oscar-winner Jennifer Hudson`s family gunned down in their own home, mother, brother, even her 7- year-old little nephew, found dead. Tonight, finally, an arrest goes down.
Out to Tom O`Neil with "In Touch Weekly," the senior editor with the magazine. Tom, explain to me Balfour`s connection to Hudson.
TOM O`NEIL, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, she is married -- he is currently married to her sister, Julia, the mother of the little boy, Julian, who was slain.
GRACE: And Tom O`Neil, do you have any idea -- we`ve known he was picked up on a parole violation almost at the get-go. Now, this is what I know, Tom O`Neil. I know that around 7:00 AM the morning of the murders, his vehicle was spotted in the Hudsons` neighborhood. He did not live there. I also know that his vehicle was then abandoned about a mile-and-a- half away at a local public school. There was video of the car being abandoned, and a male leaving the car.
We also know that he owned a .45-caliber weapon. We also know that there had been domestic discord, arguments, between them, and threats. We also know that he has a prior, including attempted murder via carjacking, and that he is a possible of member of the Black Gang Disciples. That`s what I know.
Now, Tom, you`re the reporter. You tell me why you think this translates into an arrest warrant.
O`NEIL: Well, he has already confessed, as far as we know, that he was at the house at 7:00 AM that morning, having an argument with his estranged wife, Julia, over missed car payments. She had just come from her job, where she was a school bus driver, and found her wages were garnered. So we know that they were together at 7:00 AM. The gunfire was heard at 9:00 AM.
And what`s really significant here, Nancy, is this abandonment of the car around 12:30 that you mentioned. At that same time -- and we don`t know it`s him in that video, by the way. Somebody abandoned this car. At the same time, he is pegged, according to his phone records, as being across town, leaving some people to believe, unless the timestamp is wrong on that video, he had an accomplice.
So what`s significant about these charges is some people thought he merely was involved in two of these murders, not the little boy, but it appears as if they`re pinning all three deaths on him.
GRACE: Back to Susan Roesgen, CNN correspondent standing by there in Chicago, who refers to "poor Balfour," the man now arrested in a triple slaying, including the shooting death of a 7-year-old boy. So Roesgen, he places himself in the home at the murder scene the morning of the murders. And you`re still telling me you don`t see the connection why he`s arrested for murder?
ROESGEN: No. In fact, Nancy, I had never heard that. I really question that report. What I had heard and what you heard as well that night that we had the mother on, she said, Look, he was at Julia Hudson`s birthday party the night before the murders. They loved each other. OK, that`s the mom, but...
GRACE: Does this name ring a bell to you, Miss Roesgen, Scott and Laci Peterson? Remember the happy Christmas photo of them, and then she winds up dead in the San Francisco Bay? What, you believe the photo tells the whole story?
ROESGEN: Well, what I say, Nancy, is that I`m a typical cynical reporter, and I don`t believe they`ve got the goods on this guy. And remember that long rap record on Jason Hudson. In fact, today, Nancy, I talked to the people who keep his records. They don`t -- they are not even able to fax those records to me. Why? Because they say there`s too many of them, including felony aggravated use of a weapon, tampering with a vehicle, possession of marijuana, stealing cocaine.
This is the brother. Yes, he`s the victim. Yes, it`s terrible that he was murdered. But I just think there are too many loose ends and too many other possibilities to explain those murders.
GRACE: Oh, because maybe -- because he`s a bad guy, he can`t be murdered?
ROESGEN: Yes.
GRACE: I`ve dealt with that theory so many times in court, when defense attorneys would argue to a jury, This victim`s life was worth nothing, so you should acquit my client.
ROESGEN: Oh, no, no, no!
GRACE: It`s complete BS.
ROESGEN: What I mean is -- no...
GRACE: No, I know what you mean. Let`s unleash...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... Christine Grillo, prosecutor, Carmen St. George and Mickey Sherman. Mickey, weigh in.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I would never argue that the victim`s life is worth nothing. I mean, you`ve got to be a moron to do that. And what your CNN reporter in the field is saying is -- all she`s doing is bringing up that annoying presumption of innocence, which I know gets a lot of people ticked off.
And also, you`re dealing with the fact that it`s such a hateful crime, the murder of a 7-year-old child (INAUDIBLE) I mean, there`s nothing worse than that. But try and just focus on the fact that he`s presumed innocent. And the other problem you`re having here is that we don`t know what the police have. But you know what? We`re not supposed to know what the police have. That`s why they`re the police.
GRACE: Carmen?
SHERMAN: We`re the public.
CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you know, it`s like we say in the South. If he did this, he`s an egg-sucking dog. But at this point, it`s an investigation. He`s shown to have two alibis, as far as we can tell from his mother. So it`s...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa!
ST. GEORGE: ... still in the early stages.
GRACE: Hold on. Head spinning. Alibi from his mother?
ST. GEORGE: It does happen, Nancy.
GRACE: From his mother? You don`t think your mother, my mother, would get up on the stand and lie through their teeth? From his mother? That`s his alibi? You know what? Call me back when you`ve got a better alibi. Thank you, Carmen St. George.
Out to the lines. Tammy in Massachusetts. Hi, Tammy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. First of all, let`s start on a good note. I hope you had a good Thanksgiving with the beautiful babies.
GRACE: Let me tell you something, Ms. Tammy in Massachusetts. Last Thanksgiving, my daughter was in intensive care, and I saw her before our Thanksgiving lunch. And that whole night, we were not together until I went back to the hospital. So I can`t tell you what a blessed Thanksgiving I had. And thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I recall that. I recall the time you were having and we were all praying for you. The babies are beautiful.
Anyway, on to this case situation. Being the fact that we`re talking about a child -- and I`m trying not to get upset here -- how someone could have the audacity to call this person a poor person that can look in the eyes of a 7-year-old child, shoot them to death -- I`d just like to know, is there any particular special sentencing that would go above and beyond the fact that two adults were murdered here, but they might have had a chance to fight this person off? I`d like to know what kind of sentencing, whether it`s Balfour that did it or not, would receive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think he did have something to do with it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No! I don`t want to cuss, but no. He did not have anything to do with this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALFOUR: My son`s alibi was with one of his girlfriends, OK, one of the girls that he`s dating. My oldest son, which is Raymond, his brother, had told me he was with Diana that night and he was with Kate in the morning. Now, that`s what he had told me. My son told me this, OK? If William did do this, right, in no means am I going to sugarcoat anything. My son didn`t do it. I know my son didn`t do this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, there`s the alibi, but it doesn`t actually cover, it sounds like, the time of the murder. We are taking your calls.
Back to Tammy in Massachusetts. You know, Tammy, Illinois does have the death penalty. However, former governor George Ryan put a moratorium on it. It`s been continued by Governor Rod Blagojevich. Killing a child, in many jurisdictions, under the age of 12, 12 or under, equals the death penalty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Great.
GRACE: So we can only hope that it will be sought in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Great. Thank you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Did your son refuse to take a polygraph, do you know?
BALFOUR: No one knows. No one knows. No one knows. I don`t know. You don`t know. No one knows if he refused. But they refused one of his...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The FBI has asked us not to divulge all the details while it investigates, but someone got into Cindy Anthony`s e-mail account, and sent out at least four e-mails so they appear to come from her.
There were exchanges with prior spokesman Larry Garrison, her private investigator and the Kid Finders` PR person. Cindy texted me today that she had been locked out of her e-mail over the weekend after someone broke into her account.
But private investigator says it might be somehow tied to some of the protesters who`ve been in front of her house, and they think whoever did it might be from Ocala.
The Anthonys wouldn`t talk to us about it but their private investigator say they are distressed by it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: A lot of developments in the search for little Caylee.
Straight out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Kathi, what can you tell me about these new Google searches we`re learning about on tot mom`s computer?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: Well, going back to March, apparently, someone who was on Casey Anthony`s computer was researching how to make chloroform, the components that you could use to make chloroform such as alcohol, acetone peroxide.
GRACE: Yes, I knew about that.
BELICH: Yes, we had reported that earlier. What we did hear also about which perhaps is more disturbing, neck-breaking, shovel, household weapons, self-defense. There were lots of searches like that going on, on her computer going back to March, which would have been months before Caylee disappeared.
GRACE: Neck-breaking, household weapons, alcohol, acetone, peroxide, death.
And out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, also searching for Caylee, explain to me how lost numbers, the search -- you go on Google or Yahoo! or any of the search engines, and you plug in "lost numbers." Why is that so important, Leonard Padilla?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, SEARCHING FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: You`ve got me. I`ve talked to several people, including investigators with several law enforcement agencies.
GRACE: Well, look, I`ll just clue all of you in. And I`m just a lawyer.
PADILLA: OK.
GRACE: Don`t you remember? Way back at the get-go -- let`s go to Drew Petrimoulx.
Drew, remember when she kept claiming, my nanny called me and put Caylee on the phone, and I talked to her, and I`ve lost my Blackjack cell phone, and I was using a SIM card from this phone, I plugged it into that phone. Blah, blah, blah.
All about lost numbers. Lost cell phone. About how the nanny called her, but then she tried to call her back, and the line was no longer in service. A whole song and dance about why police couldn`t trace the nanny`s phone. Yes.
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: And she could never produce those numbers. You know, she said they were on one SIM card, but she couldn`t find that one. She had two different cell phones, and when it boiled down to it, she couldn`t produce any of the numbers that would be involved with the babysitter, Zenaida Gonzalez.
GRACE: To Natisha Lance, our producer who`s been on the story from the beginning, what can you tell me about these new -- newly-discovered Google and other searches on her computer?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, they were conducted in March, as Kathi pointed out, but this is also the time when she was -- somebody was searching for missing children`s Web sites, as well.
Now they also searched for inhalation. There were some searches down on size spots, drug libraries, instructables, for making weapons out of household products. Chloroform habit, how to make chloroform, and chloro 2, as well.
GRACE: Back to Drew Petrimoulx, what can you tell me about the text messages that we discovered today that were sent to her live-in, Tony Lazzaro?
PETRIMOULX: These were the text messages that were sent back and forth on the day that Casey was first arrested. Tony Lazzaro wants to know, why didn`t you tell me about Caylee? Casey admits that basically that she was a liar and a terrible mother, and that she gave the -- gave her daughter to a psycho and has really no explanation for where she is.
Tony Lazzaro is just basically baffled that someone that he trusted could betray him like this, and he is, you know, really concerned for someone that he cared about in Caylee.
GRACE: Well, I`ve been looking at all of the text messages, and one is particularly disturbing. This is where the tot mom writes to her live- in, Tony Lazzaro. This is July 16, 7:21 a.m. July 16. This is just after the police have been called in on the whole thing.
She writes, "If they don`t find her, guess who gets blamed and spends eternity in jail." Her big concern -- to Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist and author, joining us from L.A., her big concern is what`s going to happen to her. And this is July 16.
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "I KNOW WHAT YOU`RE THINKING": Absolutely. Yes, her concern is about look what`s going to happen to me. And it`s like, oh, poor me. If they don`t find her, putting the blame on the police, if they don`t find her, then poor me. That`s what`s going to happen to me.
So, again, you see this narcissism, this selfishness. You know, rear its head over and over again with her.
GRACE: And I noticed in this, Dr. Glass, that the boyfriend, Tony Lazzaro, keeps saying, where did you drop Caylee off? When did you last see her? And the tot mom keeps writing back, other things. She`s very vague in her answers. And it`s always about me, me, me. What`s going to happen to me if they don`t find Caylee? They. Like you said, it`s their fault that they don`t find Caylee and I`m going to get blamed for it.
This is July 16, and she is already talking about not finding Caylee. She knew they weren`t going to find Caylee.
GLASS: Exactly. Exactly. You`re so right. Again, it`s about me, me, me. And we hear this throughout the whole -- the whole situation with her. That`s all she talks about, and that`s all she is concerned about.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Karen in Nevada. Hi, Karen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, friend. Nancy, question, and then quick comment.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If Cindy Anthony really believed that Casey was innocent, and that Caylee were really alive, wouldn`t she have handed over that right hairbrush to say, OK, law enforcement, in your face. Now go find my granddaughter.
GRACE: What about it, Mickey Sherman? Why did she hand over the wrong hairbrush, when cops asked for Caylee`s hairbrush?
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": Well, I think she is kind of torn. I think she doesn`t want to incriminate her daughter.
GRACE: Well, if she thought she were still alive..
SHERMAN: Well.
GRACE: . that Casey -- tot mom Casey had done nothing.
SHERMAN: I think she.
GRACE: Why not hand over the hairbrush?
SHERMAN: She may think that because she wants to think that. I mean this is the grandmother. She`s kind of been victimized in this case, too, between all of the people who volunteered to help her are really just capitalizing on this whole tragedy, and her daughter who`s a total nut job.
Yet, in all this stuff that you just reported, there`s no confession. There`s no confession.
GRACE: That`s all you`ve got? She hasn`t confessed?
SHERMAN: Yes, she hasn`t.
GRACE: Mickey Sherman, you normally don`t have confessions in murder cases. I mean you actually got to.
SHERMAN: Well, when you got people`s text messages.
GRACE: . a mental that she has to confess.
SHERMAN: Yes, but when you`ve shifted through their underwear drawer and you got everything she`s written on the computers, her text messages, everyone in the world is informing on her, you would think you would come up with some statement that -- is inculpable.
GRACE: Well, you know what, talking about not finding Caylee way back at the beginning when the search was just started I find highly incriminating and looking up neck-breaking, household weapons, death, lost numbers, shovel on the Google search.
You know, she might as well have written it all down in a diary, Carmen St. George?
CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I think something that we have to keep in mind is that her traces on her phone show that she was nowhere near the house. So somebody else may have had access to the computer and made those searches but I think the evidence is going to show that.
GRACE: Carmen, she was living at the home.
ST. GEORGE: . her records were.
GRACE: She was living at the home when the searches were conducted.
ST. GEORGE: It doesn`t make a difference, Nancy. If we`re using all her phone records to actually show she`s pinged at a particular location, well, then let`s use it the same way to show the fact that.
GRACE: Her cell phone does not say she was somewhere else when these searches were done on the computer. That`s totally erroneous. That`s not what the pings show.
ST. GEORGE: Nancy, that`s the information that I have heard.
GRACE: Yes.
ST. GEORGE: That her records show that she was not near the computer at the home at that time.
GRACE: Natisha Lance, what do we know about that?
LANCE: Actually, these searches were done in March. And Carmen may be referring to June, when Casey was not living at the home at the time. But these searches were done in March when she was still living at home full time.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Norma in Georgia. Hi, Norma.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Excuse me. Got allergy. I am interested in where she was spending the two years before all this took place. And where was Caylee at that time? I can`t help but suspect some pornography.
GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx, wasn`t she living at home?
PETRIMOULX: She was living at home. I`m not exactly sure, two years -- what does she mean by two years before what?
GRACE: Two year`s before the death. Caylee is only two years when she went missing. So those two years, where was she? Where was she living?
PETRIMOULX: She was living at home. It was only right before she got arrested, the months before she got arrested that she moved out. She was living with friends and then eventually with her boyfriend, Tony Lazzaro.
GRACE: I mean, bottom line, this woman has basically never held down a job. Of course, she was living at home, parked right there on her parents` sofa.
Everybody, quickly to our case alert, the search for a Georgia woman vanishing into thin air. 22-year-old Laneeka Varnado. Last heard from November 24. She was at an event at Georgia International Convention Center. After a brief phone call with her dad, she disappears.
Police on the lookout for a `99 silver Mercedes SLK 230. Varnado`s 5`5", 105 pounds, black hair, brown eyes.
Take a look. If you have any information, please call Paulding County sheriff, 770-443-3010.
And tonight, our thoughts and prayers with my former "Court TV" colleague, FOX News Channel`s Kimberly Guilfoyle. Kimi`s mother passed away when she was a little girl. And I have just learned that her father, Tony Guilfoyle, passed away Thanksgiving.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: We walk through a particular gate where this public lot`s at. I got within three feet of my daughter`s car and the worst odor that you could possibly smell in this world. And I`ve smelled that odor before. It smelled -- like a decomposed body.
I am being very straight with you guys. I got a sick feeling for a second. Because the car, it was from me to you away from it, you can smell an odor and you don`t forget that odor, no matter what it is. You never, ever forget it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would agree with you. And you know this, because?
ANTHONY: Being deputy sheriff for all the years I was. I have investigated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had exposure to decomposing bodies?
ANTHONY: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, we now learn that the whole old pizza theory to explain the awful stench in tot mom`s car has been totally debunked.
I want to go to famed forensic scientist, Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, joining us out of John Jay College of Criminal Justice. He is a paid consultant on the Anthony defense team.
Kobe, it`s great to see you again.
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, CONSULTANT TO CASEY ANTHONY DEFENSE TEAM: It`s a pleasure.
GRACE: This whole pizza theory has been used to explain the horrible stench in the car. With these documents just released, we learn there was no pizza. There was an empty box.
KOBILINSKY: Yes. I`ve said this before, Nancy. The idea that pizza would create that kind of smell is -- just doesn`t make any sense. And I`ve said this sounds to me like decomposition of either an animal or a human being, but not a pizza.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Kobilinsky, you and I go back a long way. We know the trial was set January 5th. Do you believe the trial will really go forward? I mean, we`re -- we`re heading in December in just a couple of hours.
And you, the expert, one of the main experts on the case, have not seen the evidence yet. I mean, it`s time for trial, essentially.
KOBILINSKY: I think you`re right, Nancy. I think it`s just silly to think that the defense will be able to put its case together in such a short period of time. You know, experts need to be gathered, and a lot of things have to be looked at and discussed. The trial will not be held in early January.
GRACE: Absolutely not. Because you, as an expert, need to see the evidence, review all the files, and then come up with how you want to pursue -- what theory you`re going to use.
And also, Kobe, I want to talk to you very quickly about the additional searches on tot mom`s computer we learned about tonight. Peroxide, acetone, alcohol. Can those ingredients be used to create home- made chloroform?
KOBILINSKY: Actually, no. Those ingredients.
GRACE: What are they?
KOBILINSKY: . by and of themselves, there`s an alcohol, an organic solvent -- those ingredients are not going to contribute to chloroform that is needed to make -- I`m sorry, the chlorine that is need to make chloroform. You need.
GRACE: I thought alcohol was necessary to make home-made chloroform.
KOBILINSKY: Well, yes, but you need something like bleach, sodium or potassium, hypochloride. Bleach would contribute to chlorine and then together with the alcohol or the acetone, you can form.
GRACE: So acetone is used.
KOBILINSKY: It can be.
GRACE: For chloroform.
KOBILINSKY: It can be a component.
GRACE: OK. Because first you said no.
KOBILINSKY: No, no, you need a -- source of chlorine to convert that acetone or ethanol into chloroform.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Cherie in Tennessee. Hi, Cherie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I watch you every night.
GRACE: Thank you. And thank you for calling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was calling to see if she had not worked a job in almost two years, what would the point be in even having a nanny? I think with all the animosity towards her mother, with the relationship that she had with little Caylee, I think she did this because she knew it would hurt her the worst.
GRACE: What about it, Dr. Glass? I mean the whole point of having a nanny is to keep the children while you`re at work, and since she was never at work, that further debunks the theory that there was ever a nanny.
GLASS: Absolutely. And I really agree with what the caller had to say. It really makes a lot of sense. Because when you`re looking at the whole picture, she doesn`t need a nanny. She is not working.
And again, the fact that she and the mother had a severe argument and a severe fight the night before she left, according to the brother, Lee, speaks volumes.
GRACE: And speaking of severe fights, to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, it`s our understanding that fight -- we know more details about it now?
PETRIMOULX: Yes, it was a fight that happened on June 15th. Now, Lee Anthony allegedly, according to these newly-released documents, told Casey`s ex-fiance, Jesse Grund, that Cindy Anthony grabbed her by the neck and shook her on that day.
Neighbors also say that there was screaming and yelling coming from the house on that day. So it was a pretty bad fight that happened the day before she was last seen.
GRACE: And what was the fight about?
PETRIMOULX: That is not released in there. One thing that we could think that it might be about is all this money that she had apparently been stealing. We know she was stealing from her grandfather.
In these documents we even find out that she was also stealing from her grandmother, not to mention Caylee and her parents. So, you could think that it could be money.
GRACE: Yes, Caylee`s piggy bank.
To Kathi Belich with WFTV, now we learn that grandmother Cindy claims her computer has been hacked into? What`s going on down there?
BELICH: Well, what we -- I actually got four e-mails that appeared to have come from her on Friday. And when I looked at them, it just seemed to me, based on what they were, that they wouldn`t have been the kind of thing she would want me to have.
So I texted her on her phone number, and asked if she had sent me something. She said no, she hadn`t. And today we got a little more information. Now there is -- the family`s private investigator is looking into this as well.
They say she sent no e-mails over the weekend, she was not at her house, and they are saying that some of their information from Yahoo! indicates that perhaps it was somebody in Ocala, or with ties to Ocala, and they say that some of the protesters had ties to Ocala, so that`s what we know at this point.
GRACE: So apparently someone hacked into Cindy Anthony`s computer, then sent the media information off the computer about her not giving the FBI little Caylee`s hairbrush.
Very quickly, Natisha Lance, what can you tell me about this new composite sketch of Zenaida Gonzalez? Is it from the tot mom? Is she the one that gave this description?
LANCE: Yes. It does come from Casey Anthony. She described.
GRACE: And what`s the description.
LANCE: She describes Zenaida Gonzalez as 5`7", 145 pounds, with curly brown hair that had been straightened. Also she says that she had a lot of money.
GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who first bonded tot mom out of jail came off the bond and is now leading one of the searches for little Caylee.
Leonard, in the documents she describes -- tot mom Zenaida, Zenaida Gonzales. What do you make of this description?
PADILLA: It doesn`t fit. One of the thing that she said was that she did not have any tattoos and Zenaida has got about a dozen tats. And also she`s only about 5`4" 160 pounds. She`s definitely not 5`7". And she`s 100 percent Puerto Rican.
GRACE: And very quickly to Donald Schweitzer, former detective with Santa Ana PD, why do you believe police did not publish that description of the nanny?
DONALD SCHWEITZER, FMR. DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: Nancy, I don`t know why they didn`t. I think that they may have not wanted to send the public on a wild goose chase.
Also, they probably didn`t believe her. She would have had a lot more information about this person rather than a general description. She would have known where this person was from. We would have located her if there was a real nanny in this case.
GRACE: Donald Schweitzer, have you ever heard somebody give such a detailed yet false description?
SCHWEITZER: Yes. Many times.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots it stunk so bad. You know how hot it is. That smell was terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: During an FBI interrogation he spoke about the smell of death in his daughter`s car. When asked about it tonight he shied away.
G. ANTHONY: I am going to not even answer that at this point. I -- I believe my granddaughter`s still alive. I`m going to continue to believe that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines, Chris in Montana, hi, Chris.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Your babies are just precious.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I know the police investigate all the sightings and everything about Caylee and everything. And I believe with the dogs finding the pants and poor little Caylee probably is dead.
But that picture that you guys showed last week in Florida, that mall, that little girl, have they checked that one out to make sure that it just kind of looks like Caylee and it`s not here?
GRACE: Yes, let`s see that photo, Liz. This is a recent sighting at a local Orlando mall.
To Drew Petrimoulx, police said they were not following up on the lead, not following up on the picture. What do we know?
PETRIMOULX: That`s right. They`re not following up on any more leads of live sightings of Caylee or searches for her out of state. They said that the FBI evidence and the DNA evidence shows that she`s dead and they refuse to chase these sightings around the country.
They`ve already used thousands and thousands of dollars of their resources to -- for the search and they`re not willing to search any more.
GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, e-mails between Cindy Anthony and her brother show they fought over what happened to Caylee. Do you know anything about their arguments?
PADILLA: Rick basically talked to one of our team members at one time. And we didn`t know if it was really a brother or not. But whoever the person was, he was very discouraged about the position Cindy was taking.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Marine Corporal Christian Cotner, 21, Waterbury, Connecticut, killed Iraq. Awarded the National Defense Service medal, Global war on Terrorism medal, Sea Service Deployment ribbon.
Loved the Yankees, adventure, bungee jumping, roller coasters, video games, remote-controlled airplanes. Leaves behind parents Karen and Graham, brother Eric.
Christian Cotner, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And a special thank you to Calvin`s Grill in Warner Robins, Georgia for hosting a huge family reunion and two hungry twins over the holidays.
Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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