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CNN Larry King Live
House Passes Emergency Auto Bailout; Latest Developments in the Blagojevich Scandal; Interview with the Anthonys
Aired December 10, 2008 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, another political bombshell. Jesse Jackson, Jr. revealed as "Candidate No. 5." He talked to the Illinois governor about Barack Obama's Senate seat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JESSE JACKSON (D), ILLINOIS: I met with Governor Blagojevich for the first time in four years on Tuesday.
I did nothing wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Blagojevich was at work today. The president-elect says step down.
Plus, their daughter's in jail on a murder rap -- did she kill her own child?
George and Cindy Anthony say authorities have got it all wrong -- Caylee is alive. They're here and they're taking your calls.
And then, they risk their lives to bring us what you rarely see -- Anderson Cooper, Lisa Ling and Dr. Sanjay Gupta go to the ends of the Earth to tell us why we all might be in danger on this "Planet In Peril," right now on LARRY KING LIVE.
We begin with breaking news.
The House has passed legislation to get $14 billion in emergency loans to the U.S. auto industry. Democrats in the White House hope the bill can be enacted this week. But it's not a sure thing yet.
CNN's Congressional correspondent Dana Bash brings us up to speed -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Larry. It actually passed just moments ago in the House. And it passed pretty easily, by a vote of 237-170.
But that -- that smooth passage in the House definitely belies the fact that it absolutely is in jeopardy here on Capitol Hill this evening. And that is because of what is going on in the United States Senate. Republicans -- basically many of them say that they do not like the deal that their own Republican White House hatched with Congressional Democrats on just how to bail out Detroit, because, for the most part, the biggest complaint is they say that there isn't strong enough promises to make sure that these companies actually restructure themselves in a way that they can be viable for the long- term.
So, at this hour, it is very unclear, in talking to Republican senators, if they have the 60 votes to pass it by week's end -- or even at all. But I can tell you, even at this late hour, they're working to try to figure out how to -- to talk to Republican senators and maybe come up with ways that they can address those concerns -- Larry.
KING: Thanks, Dana.
Dana Bash always on top of the scene.
More fallout from that jaw-dropping criminal complaint filed against Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. The complaint alleges that he tried to sell the U.S. Senate seat vacated by President-Elect Obama. On page 72, there's this assertion: "In a recorded conversation on October 31st, 2008, Blagojevich described an earlier approach by an associate of "Senate candidate No. 5" as follows
'We were approach pay to play -- that, you know, he'd raise me 500 grand, an emissary came, then the other guy would raise a million more if I made him the Senate candidate" -- No. 5, making him a senator.
Our panel, in Washington, James Carville, Democratic strategist, CNN political contributor.
And here in Los Angeles, Larry Elder, the best-selling author and talk radio host.
And in Washington, as well, is Clarence Page, "Chicago Tribune" syndicated columnist and a member of the newspaper's editorial board. And they are also in the news.
And Congressman Jackson, a staunch supporter of Obama, acknowledges he's "Candidate No. 5".
What do you make of this, James?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know, we don't -- again, he says that he's not a target and he probably could be very well correct. I thought he -- he didn't answer questions at the end of his press conference today. I don't think that's going to be able to stand. There's every reason to give him the benefit of the doubt as to what he says, but he's an elected official and I think he's going to have to be more forthcoming in the future than he was this morning.
KING: Larry, what do you make of it?
LARRY ELDER, TALK RADIO HOST, AUTHOR: Well, I think that James is right about the fact that he apparently is not a target -- or at least the U.S. attorney said he was not a target. But I think the real question here is would we be asking these kinds of questions of a Republican -- what did he know and when did he know it?
Barack Obama has said that he had no contact with the governor. Only days earlier, one of his top advisers said that he had.
Rahm Emanuel, the incoming chief of staff, Larry, says that Barack Obama was a top campaign adviser to Blagojevich. And then, just moments later, he said -- Rahm Emanuel did -- that he misspoke or that he was wrong.
I think if this were a bunch of Republicans and the incoming president-elect was, say, somebody named George W. Bush, we'd all be talking about what did he know and when did he know it.
KING: Are you saying you think Barack Obama is somehow involved in a fraudulent way?
ELDER: What I'm saying is I want consistency. I'm saying if this were a Republican, Larry -- the mantra with Bush coming in was he stole the election, he's from some -- a bible belt state, he is from a state that is interested in the death penalty, he's an oil man...
KING: You believe all that?
ELDER: ...he's an oil man. And Obama's mantra is he's a prince. He's "Camelot" number two.
KING: Why do you...
ELDER: He's above politics.
KING: Why do you resent that you have...
ELDER: When, in effect...
KING: ...you have someone...
ELDER: All I want is...
KING: ...(INAUDIBLE) historic for you?
Aren't you thrilled?
ELDER: All I want is -- well, Larry, I am...
KING: Aren't you thrilled?
ELDER: I am a Republican. I'm thrilled...
KING: I know.
But aren't you thrilled anyway?
ELDER: I'm thrilled that we're in a country where somebody can be elected based upon the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.
However, I want consistency in the media.
(CROSSTALK)
ELDER: I don't expect fairness anymore. I just want consistency.
KING: Clarence Page, do you think this is a plot only because it would be bigger if he were -- if he were a Republican?
CLARENCE PAGE, MEMBER EDITORIAL BOARD, "CHICAGO TRIBUNE": Well, I'm sure Republicans are going to make hay out of this. They've had a lot of bad news lately. This has -- this has put more smiles on Republican faces than anybody since the Jeremiah Wright videos.
But I think about back in Chicago, you know, where people -- we are long -- long experienced in having scandalous headlines and all.
This one is particularly deplorable. People are just so bummed out that a few weeks after the glorious spectacle we saw in Grant Park and people dancing in the streets all around the world. Suddenly, that spirit seems to be scuttled by not just what appears to be a sleazy scandal but also what appears to be an amateurish and slightly -- what -- off -- a somewhat bent governor. I mean the kind of dialogue we see here sounds like something out of a bad gangster play.
And I think, you know, Jesse Jackson, Jr. does need to answer questions because all we have heard is the Blagojevich ramblings on the -- you know, the overheard dialogues here.
KING: Do you...
PAGE: So I think that...
KING: James...
PAGE: There's got to be another side to this story.
CARVILLE: Well, I'm a little
KING: Yes?
CARVILLE: I don't know what planet I'm living on. I can't imagine this thing getting anymore coverage than it's getting. I mean, this is the third time I've been on CNN today and I...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: No, Larry wants them to blame Obama, I think.
CARVILLE: ...on television.
ELDER: No, it...
CARVILLE: And I think tomorrow, Mr. Elder, I don't know how to tell you this, but I think he's going to get about 70,000 questions tomorrow morning at his press conference. You know, it's not like people...
ELDER: No, James, James...
CARVILLE: ...are not asking questions here.
ELDER: James, it's not about blaming the -- blaming the president. I go back to what Clarence just...
CARVILLE: No, you were blaming the press.
ELDER: Wait, wait, wait. Clarence just now said we're used to this in Chicago. I just read a "Time" magazine article about a month ago that talked about how McCain did an ad where he tried to tie Obama to Chicago-style corruption. And the article said, well, that's old school. We're not like that anymore. Chicago is not like that anymore. They quoted a political scientist saying we're not like that anymore.
The whole mantra of Barack Obama is a new guy above politics.
KING: Wait a minute, are you saying...
ELDER: He's not a machine guy anymore.
KING: ...he's tied to this?
ELDER: He's -- the Red Sea parted.
KING: Larry, hold it, hold it, hold it.
Are you...
ELDER: He's a politician.
KING: Are you saying -- Larry, are you saying Obama is tied to this scandal?
ELDER: What I am saying is O...
KING: What are you saying?
ELDER: ...I am saying is Obama ran the first time, Larry, by getting everybody kicked off the ballot and he ran unopposed. I am saying that he got a lot of campaign contributions from developers who later on developed housing...
KING: He's tied to the scandal.
ELDER: ...that has been condemned.
KING: OK.
ELDER: He is a politician -- a Chicago politician.
KING: All right.
ELDER: Good, bad, indifferent... KING: By the way, the last I checked...
ELDER: Don't put him on Mt. Rushmore yet.
KING: No, no. The last I checked, Lincoln was a politician and he's on Mt. Rushmore.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: We'll be right back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Clarence Page, here's a little of what Jesse Jackson, Jr. , a staunch supporter of Obama, said today.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: I reject and denounce pay to play politics and have no involvement whatsoever in any wrongdoing. I did not initiate or authorize anyone at any time to promise anything to Governor Blagojevich on my behalf. I never sent a message or an emissary to the governor to make an offer, to plead my case or to propose a deal about a U.S. Senate seat period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Clarence, why was "No. 5" singled out at all?
PAGE: Well, because there was the allegation -- well, you look at the transcription of the tape -- look at U.S. Attorney Fitzgerald's criminal complaint -- and you see that Blagojevich was sharing the fact that, he says, the "Senate candidate No. 5" was offering $500,000 or a million dollars in exchange for being appointed the new senator.
KING: So...
PAGE: And that -- and he also used the term pay for play, which...
KING: Yes.
PAGE: ...was like, you know, just a bold assertion by Blagojevich...
KING: So...
PAGE: ...that some criminal activity was taking place here.
KING: So, James, is Jesse Jackson lying?
I mean, what -- if he was "No. 5" and Fitzgerald was saying this is what "No. 5" was talking about...
CARVILLE: Well, it's...
KING: ...something isn't right.
CARVILLE: Right. Well, no, this is what a "emissary of No." -- and this is what Blagojevich said, that somebody from -- and Blagojevich is not the most credible person in the world. I mean, let's -- let's be clear here.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Just because Rod Blagojevich said something, that doesn't mean that it's true.
And my point is, is that I'm willing to give Congressman Jackson every -- every benefit of the doubt that everything that he's saying is true. I just think he's going to have a hard time in the future maintaining the posture that he's not going to comment on this or answer any questions.
I agree that it's very legitimate of the press to ask questions about this. And he's elected by people of his Congressional district, you know, and at a point -- and relatively soon -- he's going to have to come forward and tell people more.
KING: Larry, where do you think it's all going?
ELDER: That's a good question. We don't know. One of the questions I have is why was the investigation stopped if, in fact, "Senator No. 5" was apparently, according to Blagojevich, anyway...
KING: (INAUDIBLE).
ELDER: ...interested in pay or play, why not let it go and see how far up it goes?
Again, I think...
(CROSSTALK)
ELDER: ...these are the kinds of questions that would be asked if we were talking about Republicans here -- why did it stop right now and, again, what did the guy at the top know and when did he know it -- especially when you've got a campaign chief of staff saying that Barack Obama helped to get this guy elected.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: But don't all candidate -- Democratic candidates help other Democratic candidates?
I mean...
ELDER: They certainly do, Larry. And, therefore, you would -- you would think that the president-elect would have a role in determining who his successor would be. I know that -- I would think that Barack Obama would want to know who his successor is going to be... KING: He could make a suggestion.
ELDER: ...and try to influence it. But he hadn't had a conversation with him.
What is that?
KING: You don't believe it.
Does that pass the smell test?
KING: Then you don't believe it?
ELDER: Does it pass the smell test?
KING: Clarence...
ELDER: Do you believe it, Larry?
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Clarence...
PAGE: Well, first of all, the answer to your question...
KING: Do you believe Obama was involved?
Yes?
PAGE: Well, first of all, he asked the question why was the investigation stopped?
It hasn't stopped. U.S. Attorney Fitzgerald indicated that he decided to arrest Blagojevich now because he was worried that Blagojevich was going to go ahead and appoint a new senator.
KING: Yes.
PAGE: And then you would have a senator with what he thought was a tainted governor appointing him.
But the investigation is going on. Fitzgerald has invited everybody who has information to come forward now. And we know from experience that Fitzgerald is a very, very thorough U.S. attorney. This investigation will go on.
ELDER: But he went public with it, Clarence.
PAGE: Yes.
ELDER: He went public with it.
(CROSSTALK)
ELDER: And when you go public, you change everybody's behavior.
PAGE: Yes, but he's still a good prosecutor...
KING: Well, of course he's...
PAGE: ...you know. And you're a lawyer. You know that -- that it makes the prosecution more difficult. But he wouldn't have gone public unless he felt he still had a case.
CARVILLE: Larry, can I make a point here?
I absolutely believed the president-elect when he said he never talked to the governor about this. And the proof of it -- by the way, the proof is in the pudding. All these conversations are taped. So if he had a conversation and said that he didn't, it would be something that Barack Obama is clearly not and that would be stupid. He's a very bright man. And I absolutely believe him when he said he never had a conversation with Blagojevich about it.
ELDER: I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, as well, James...
CARVILLE: Well...
ELDER: ...but isn't it interesting, you've got two top campaign aides who make statements and then all of a sudden they've got to take them back?
You guys would be yelling and screaming about this president- elect can't even control his own staff.
CARVILLE: You know, Larry...
PAGE: Well (INAUDIBLE) is not over either. But there is a point to be made here for the -- for...
ELDER: You know I'm right, James.
(CROSSTALK)
ELDER: I love you, James, but you know I'm right.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: No. Again, let me -- let me look in the camera and say I absolutely -- you said you didn't believe the president-elect. I absolutely believe him. And the proof is in...
ELDER: I said I give him the benefit of the doubt.
CARVILLE: The proof is in the pudding.
KING: We're going to have...
CARVILLE: All of these were taped...
KING: All right.
Guys, we're going to have...
CARVILLE: ...and everybody knows that we're not close.
KING: We're going to have all three of you back, because this is not dull.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: I know.
KING: Back in 60 seconds with Caylee's grandparents, George and Cindy Anthony.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Now joining us George and Cindy Anthony. They are the grandparents of missing Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. Their daughter Casey is Caylee's mom and she's in jail now, charged with first degree murder, aggravated child abuse and lying to investigators.
Before we start, let's watch the gripping jailhouse video of Casey talking with her parents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: Hey gorgeous, how are you doing?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: I look like hell.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, you know something, you really need to keep your spirit high for all this.
CASEY ANTHONY: I have. I haven't been crying while I've been in here.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, you know something...
CASEY ANTHONY: I've been trying to read books and do other things to keep my mind off of stuff.
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: Listen, I'm in front of the cameras all the time.
What message do you want me to give to Zanny and to Kate and to Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: A short...
CINDY ANTHONY: What do you want me to tell Zanny?
CASEY ANTHONY: That she needs to return Caylee. I forgive her.
CINDY ANTHONY: What do you think her reasons are?
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I don't know.
CINDY ANTHONY: OK.
CASEY ANTHONY: I forgive her. My only concern is that Caylee comes back to us and she's smiling and she's happy and that she is -- she's OK.
CINDY ANTHONY: OK.
What do you want me to tell Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: That mommy loves her very much and she's the most important thing in this entire world to me. And to be brave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: By the way, you heard that -- on that tape -- a reference to Zanny, who Casey claimed was the little girl's nanny -- the woman who allegedly kidnapped her. That woman says she didn't even know the family and has been cleared by police.
There's a lot to cover with the Anthonys. We're glad to have them here. We'll get into it right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We now welcome George and Cindy Anthony, the grandparents of the missing Florida toddler, Caylee Anthony. They last saw her in mid-June.
How are you holding up?
CINDY ANTHONY: We take one day at a time. You know, it's very hard -- a lot of sleep lost, lost a lot of weight. You know, we just take one day at a time.
KING: When did you last see Caylee?
GEORGE ANTHONY: I last saw her on June 16th, the day after Father's Day.
KING: What happened the day she went missing?
CINDY ANTHONY: We actually didn't find out until July so...
KING: She had been missing how long when you found out?
CINDY ANTHONY: About a month. And...
KING: Isn't that strange?
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, not really. My daughter, you know, had her. And, you know, we just -- we just assumed that Casey and Caylee were, you know, off visiting friends. KING: George, why wouldn't your daughter have called you and say Caylee's gone?
GEORGE ANTHONY: That's really a good question. I -- I know we kept in contact with her -- at least Cindy did -- almost every day or every other day -- a little text message here and there. And everything was fine.
KING: So what do you make of it?
I mean, she's your daughter. You have to have some -- why wouldn't she not -- why would she tell you -- not tell you?
CINDY ANTHONY: I think she's -- I think she was frightened. I think, from what we understand, that, you know, there's been threats to not only Caylee's well-being, but also to our family's well-being.
KING: By?
CINDY ANTHONY: By the people that have Caylee.
KING: You think Caylee was taken. Your daughter obviously knew she was taken.
CINDY ANTHONY: Um-hmm.
KING: For what purpose?
CINDY ANTHONY: You know, I'm still trying to sort that out. You know, the person that originally has her or had her, we've had three or four different sightings with the same description that Casey released -- that they finally released on this person. And the Zenaida that the police department tracked down was one out of thousands that Casey said right from the beginning was not the correct person.
They just now released, within a couple of weeks ago, the actual description of the baby-sitter. And we've had three -- that I'm aware of -- tips that have come in since June of people who described this person to a tee that had Caylee.
KING: What does your daughter think, George?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, our daughter thinks that Caylee needs to be found. And she said...
KING: No, I mean what does she think happened?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh. She's already told us that this Zanny, this baby-sitter, is the one that has her.
KING: Who denies it?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, the one that -- like Cindy just said about the one that the sheriff's department, our local sheriff's department, had brought to my daughter's attention, it's not her. It's just not her. KING: Let's go back to July 15th. Cindy, here's part of the 911 call that you made.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911.
What's your emergency?
CINDY ANTHONY: I called a little bit ago. The deputy sheriff is not here. I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can't find my granddaughter. And she just admitted to me that she's been trying to find her herself. There's something wrong. I found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damned car.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KING: Did you suspect your daughter?
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
KING: Never in all of this?
CINDY ANTHONY: Never.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Never.
CINDY ANTHONY: I have not. From day one, I haven't. You know, Casey has been a loving, very caring mother. And I could see that first night that she was very frightened when the sheriff's department arrived at the house. I mean she was devastated. She was on the floor just beside herself. And she has been very emotional since day one, which hasn't been reported. Her main focus has been the same as ours, it's been looking -- it's been looking for Caylee since the very beginning.
KING: When they arrested her, were you shocked, George?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh, absolutely. When they took her into custody the very first time, I was just appalled because I wanted them to -- and I wanted to put an AMBER Alert out for my granddaughter, which they never did. They never contacted the FBI that I wanted them to contact. I mean, I have a little bit of knowledge on some stuff and you would really think that they would want to have some -- someone wanting to have helped them assist trying to find this beautiful three year little old girl. And all I was trying to do was trying to help them and they haven't...
KING: But why do you think they wouldn't?
GEORGE ANTHONY: They had their mind made up.
CINDY ANTHONY: They had their mind made up. You know, they picked out... GEORGE ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE).
CINDY ANTHONY: ...Zenaida Gonzalez. They picked out a 38-year-old woman when Casey told them it was a 24-year-old woman. They picked out someone that had children...
KING: As the nanny, you mean?
CINDY ANTHONY: Right. And she told them she had no children.
You know, they, from the very beginning, decided how this was going to take place. They made judgment on her within two hours of having her in custody. And that's the way it's been. They have not assisted us into looking into finding Caylee.
KING: And they said...
CINDY ANTHONY: And we believe she is alive.
KING: I gather. I want to get to that.
Have they set a trial date?
CINDY ANTHONY: Right now, January 5th.
KING: And no death penalty, right?
CINDY ANTHONY: No death penalty.
KING: They removed -- they had it and then removed it?
CINDY ANTHONY: They removed it. GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes.
KING: We'll be right back with George and Cindy Anthony on this education of LARRY KING LIVE.
The Anthonys have a Web site -- helpfindcaylee.com.
If you have something today -- to say, rather -- let's hear it at our Web site, CNN.com/larryking. And we'll air some of your comments later in the show.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, you don't realize the whole United States is looking for Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: I know that, mom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We're back.
Casey Anthony, by the way, was interviewed by members of the Orange County Sheriff's Office July 16th.
Here's part of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn't you call prior to today?
CASEY ANTHONY: I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which obviously I couldn't. And I was scared that something would happen to her if I did notify the authorities or got the media involved or my parents, which I know would have done the same thing.
Just the fear of the unknown -- fear of the potential of Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Why do you think she was arrested and charged, George?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Because they had their -- like Cindy said, they had their mind made up. It was too easy for them to just close the book on this and say well, we're going to charge you with your daughter's disappearance and just be done with it.
KING: Did they ever look at why a mother would kill her daughter?
I mean, did anyone ever question motive?
CINDY ANTHONY: Right. There is no motive and they haven't found a motive. They even said they haven't found a motive. They -- they told us they thought it was an accident and she's scared and she's trying to cover it up.
KING: Killed her by accident and then...
CINDY ANTHONY: Right.
KING: ...buried her or something.
CINDY ANTHONY: Right, they don't feel there's the motive.
KING: Have they looked for the child?
CINDY ANTHONY: We have had five searches done by the sheriff's department, done by Tim Miller with Texas EquuSearch.
KING: I know him.
CINDY ANTHONY: And it's come up with nothing. There's nothing that they have found that, you know, has given them any evidence that Caylee is no longer with us.
KING: Where do you think she is, George?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh, Caylee? She's with hopefully a loving family that's taking care of her.
CINDY ANTHONY: We got a tip today.
KING: Today?
CINDY ANTHONY: Today, at 4:00 today. Right now, being investigated by --
KING: What was the tip?
CINDY ANTHONY: In Tennessee.
KING: Someone spotted a girl who looked like her?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yeah, at a grocery store in Tennessee. And my investigators have already spoken with the Tennessee authorities and also the tipster and we're just waiting to see if there's any video in the store.
KING: You realize if they find Caylee, this is a terrible miscarriage of justice.
CINDY ANTHONY: It's been a terrible miscarriage of justice.
KING: However, you must understand the authorities' viewpoint here. Here they are with the dilemma of this woman, a nanny says I didn't do it, I wasn't with her. She waits a month before telling -- I mean, they certainly have grounds for suspicion, don't you think?
CINDY ANTHONY: No, they looked at one Zenaida Gonzalez, one Zenaida. They told us there was only one in our area. There was 11 just in Orlando. They picked out one. Casey told them to check New York or Miami because she had a New York license. She told them that. They pulled up an Ohio license.
Bottom line is Caylee is out there. We have had people from June 20th who have given us sworn statements that they have seen Caylee in Orlando. We have sworn statements from July 2nd. We have people that are out there, can't sleep at night because they have seen her in July. We have people that we met last night that saw her in California just two weeks ago. How do you fight with someone or, you know, say if they're sitting four feet away from this child and they say they're positive that this is Caylee? Because they have seen her picture for the last six months, four feet.
KING: How old would she be now?
CINDY ANTHONY: Three.
KING: Let's listen to a bit more of Casey's July 16th interview with authorities.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) INVESTIGATOR: Was there anything that you want to change or divert from what you have already told me?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
INVESTIGATOR: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
INVESTIGATOR: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you're worried that if we find that out, that people are going to look at you the wrong way?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
INVESTIGATOR: And you're telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission and hasn't returned her?
CASEY ANTHONY: She's the last person that I've seen with my daughter.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KING: Let's take a call. Winston-Salem, North Carolina, for George and Cindy Anthony. Hello.
CALLER: Hello, George and Cindy. I am so sorry for the trouble that your family has been going through. I just wanted to ask you, Cindy. When you first called police, you said something like it smelled like there was a dead body in the trunk of your daughter's car. And more recently you said that you believe that it was maybe old pizza. And I was just calling wondering why you changed your mind on that.
CINDY ANTHONY: I changed my mind on that -- I never changed my mind on that. What I stated was the car smelled, OK. I was told by my husband and also by the gentleman at the tow yard that there was a bag of food that contained pizza and maggots in the car. I went down and I spoke myself with the manager of the tow company, and he told us that that was the cause of the smell in the car. I don't know if anybody that has ever smelled decay of food that's been in a car trunk for 19 days in Florida heat. I have opened my refrigerator and made the comment, something died in here.
KING: We'll take a break and come back. The Orange County sheriff's department released this statement tonight for us. "From the beginning, our desire was to find Caylee Marie Anthony alive and well. Evidence unfortunately revealed that we are looking for a deceased child. The sheriff's office got involved because Cindy Anthony called us about her missing granddaughter. The resulting investigation led to a grand jury indictment of Casey Anthony for murder in the first degree. Our hearts go out to the Anthonys for the extremely difficult time they're living through."
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: A beautiful little girl. Following Casey's arrest in July on child neglect and other charges, George and Cindy visited her in jail. Here is some of the surveillance video from that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I don't care what I have to do. When I told them I would lie, I would steal, I would do whatever by any means to get her back. That's exactly how I feel, it's the truth.
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, we have to find her before her third birthday. That's coming up fast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: There were reports, photo shots, I think, of your daughter partying a lot and out having a good time during all this, while her daughter is missing. Explain that.
CINDY ANTHONY: There was one photo out of all of the photos that has been shown of her partying that was after June 16th, one. And what we have learned that that is a staged photo. That those are photos that they used to entice other people to come into that club. She would have gotten paid for that photo. So, in fact, she was working. And we have proof of that.
KING: Where George, is Caylee's father?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Caylee's father lived somewhere in the Carolinas I believed at one point. He's deceased. He passed away right around her second birthday.
KING: Oh, so she was still around when he died.
CINDY ANTHONY: Right, he was never part of her life.
KING: Sioux Falls, South Dakota, hello.
CALLER: Thank you, Larry. My question is for George. George, removing yourself from your family, I know you are a professional in the department. What was your professional opinion of the smell in that trunk?
GEORGE ANTHONY: My professional opinion is I never really realized how long it would take garbage to smell for 19 days or 18 days inside of a car in Florida, to be honest with you.
KING: What do you do, George?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Right now, I'm in the security field. Been in law enforcement for years, I sort of stayed in the security field off and on all the years.
KING: Were you in law enforcement in Orlando?
GEORGE ANTHONY: No, never was in Orlando, now. I was in law enforcement 20-some odd years ago.
KING: So you would understand law enforcement psyche?
GEORGE ANTHONY: To a point, yes, possibly, yes. But then again, I know what I feel inside, that that's like Cindy says. Inside that bag was garbage. It really was. It was pizza. I mean, I've seen it. I know what was in there.
KING: And there's no way you can fathom, Cindy, your daughter harming your granddaughter?
CINDY ANTHONY: No, there's nobody that has come forward that has ever seen or said anything other than that Caylee (sic) was an excellent mother. So there's -- Casey has done nothing to her daughter. There's no evidence that shows that, and I can with 100 percent of my being say that I believe that Casey had nothing to do with Caylee's disappearance.
KING: We have a little more to show you from inside the jailhouse, watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: What's your gut telling you right now?
CASEY ANTHONY: That she's OK.
CINDY ANTHONY: OK. And your gut tells you she's close or she's hiding?
CASEY ANTHONY: She's not far. I know in my heart she's not far. I can feel it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Oh, boy. This is -- are you optimistic that you're going to find Caylee? I mean, how do you feel about it? It's been a long time.
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, over the last several weeks we have gotten probably our best sightings. We had one in the middle of November, right in Orlando. Two women, very credible, were within 10 feet of her, watched her for 20 minutes, took photographs of her. This last couple that we met last night saw her a week after that point, were within four feet of her.
KING: So she's somewhere, you think?
CINDY ANTHONY: Absolutely.
KING: We'll see what you're saying on the blogs tonight in 60 seconds. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back. Let's hear what you're talking about tonight. Here's our own David Theall with the blog report. David?
DAVID THEALL, LARRY KING LIVE PRODUCER: Larry, as you know, in advance of their appearance tonight, George and Cindy provided us with a guest commentary that we posted on your blog. This is one of those stories that garners a lot of comments. The vast majority of them are critical of George, Cindy, and their daughter Casey. Not all of them, however.
Nikki belongs in that camp. Nikki says, "I don't understand how anybody can attack George and Cindy. Nobody knows for sure how they would react if put in this situation." Crystal says, "I have become addicted to this story and I cannot help but lean to the facts that show most likely this child is no longer in the flesh."
As I said, the vast majority of people on your blog right now, Larry, are critical of the Anthonys. Barbara belongs in that camp. She says, "Your daughter holds the truth no matter how bad it will be to hear."
And Lisa says this, "The enabling of Casey needs to end now."
This conversation is going to continue on your blog. You can read the exclusive guest commentary from the Anthonys in which they battle this public perception of their family and of this case. It's at CNN.com/LarryKing. Look for the live blog link. Click it, come on in.
KING: Thank you, David. And when we come back with our remaining moments with George and Cindy, we'll find out why they think most people are against them, if that's true. More of your calls too, after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Anderson Cooper will host "A.C. 360" at the top of the hour. What's up, Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Larry, tonight on the program, the governor heads back to work today, Governor Blagojevich as calls mount for his resignation. Fifty Democratic senators and an aide to President-elect Obama want him to step down. Will he stay in office? And we'll show you a peek into the governor's private life. His wife standing by her man. And while there's no evidence she has committed any crimes or allegations of that, many are calling her a modern day Lady Macbeth with a mouth like a trucker. Although maybe that's unfair to truckers.
And we're following the breaks news on the auto bailout. The House passes the $14 billion bailout, but a growing revolt among Republican senators could kill the bill. We'll have all the breaking news live from Capitol Hill. Those stories and an answer to the question, will Barack Obama use his middle name Hussein when he's sworn in? The president-elect has decided. We'll tell you his answer tonight on "360." Larry?
KING: That's "A.C." Thanks, Anderson. "A.C. 360," 10 Eastern, 7 Pacific. Anderson will be with us in a couple of minutes to preview tomorrow night's show. Why do you think so many people get angry at you?
CINDY ANTHONY: Because they only hear one side of the story. They only see what is put out there by the Nancy Graces of the world and the Leonard Padillas of the world. They don't look at themselves and look at their own families and figure out what they would do if one of their children was missing.
You know, there's a very -- there's a lot of people that are in our shoes. And there's a lot of people that will do one of several things. They'll either go into a recluse and they'll just withdraw. You could do that. Or you could get up every morning and you could fight for the people that you love.
And we're not going to -- I'm not going to sit back and worry about what people think about us, because my focus is on Caylee. And anybody that wants to criticize me for that, that's their problem.
KING: Has Nancy Grace convicted your daughter?
CINDY ANTHONY: Absolutely. Nancy Grace is the reason there are people out there -- but I tell you what, there's just as many people that watch Nancy Grace that only watch her because they don't have local media like we do in Orlando, keeping up with Caylee. That's their only outlet. They don't believe in the things she's doing. In fact, it's fact they tell us when this is all done, when Caylee is home, they're never going to watch her again.
KING: Thank you both very much. And their Web site, if you want to keep in touch is helpfindcaylee.com. Helpfindcaylee.com.
Anderson Cooper, Lisa Ling and Dr. Sanjay Gupta are here when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back. Food, water, land, fuel. Everybody needs them to survive, but there's not enough of them to meet the demands of an expanding world population. "Planet in Peril: Battle Lines" is a two-hour look at some of the flash points in the global competition for these vital resources. The world premiere is tomorrow night on CNN at 9 Eastern in this time slot. The hosts are with us now, Anderson Cooper, Lisa Ling and Dr. Sanjay Gupta. What do you want the viewers to take away from this, Anderson?
COOPER: This is really about our rapidly rising population, which is human population is going to grow by about 50 percent over the next 40 years or so and our dwindling natural resources. They are already dwindling, you can imagine when more people are on the planet how much more competition there is going to be over those resources. And that's going to lead to increased global conflict. Intelligence officials tell us that. Scientists tell us that. And that is what we wanted to explore. We wanted to bring viewers along in a very real and dramatic way to the flash points, the battle lines around the world where we are seeing these conflicts. KING: Now Lisa, I understand some of your reporting focused on dead sharks, millions killed mostly for soup. What was that all about?
LISA LING, JOURNALIST: Well we do actually spend quite a bit of time covering sharks in "Planet in Peril" and that's because sharks are the top predator in the ocean. And their numbers are being reduced dramatically because of demand for shark fin soup, of all things, in Asia. Shark fin soup is considered a delicacy. And now with China's booming middle class, there is an increasing demand for this because of this, a signal of wealth. So as a result, the shark population has literally been killed. And it's devastating because sharks predate dinosaurs. They have been around 400 million years and in a very short period of time, we are seeing just a drastic reduction of their numbers.
KING: And Sanjay, you went to Central Africa examining how food shortages could unleash the next pandemic. Explain.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well there are these interfaces between animals and humans and that's important, because if you look at pandemics and a lot of infectious diseases, a lot of times those viruses or bacteria or some sort of pathogen make a jump from animals to humans.
When you have these bush meat hunters that are going into the forest -- we went into the forest with them, what happens is a lot of times, those viruses can make a jump between animals and humans at that particular interface.
Bush meat hunting goes up, the chance of virus transmission goes up and possibly one of these pandemic increase possibilities goes up as well. So that is sort of what we were studying and also I guess more importantly, trying to how to figure out how scientists are trying to stop it, Larry, how to stop the next pandemic.
KING: All of you took risks, obviously in doing this. Anderson, you went underwater with a great white shark. Let's walk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Climbing into a shark cage is scary. The sea is chummed with blood and fish parts and underwater, visibility is low. First, all you see is a vague shape moving fast. Then all of a sudden, you find yourself face-to-face with a great white shark. Its mouth open, its eyes rolling back into its head. Deep down in the water, to be six, seven feet away from one it is an incredible experience.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Was that necessary for the success of "Planet in Peril?"
COOPER: Well you know Larry, actually after that day, we actually went outside the cage and spent about 30 or 40 minutes diving with great whites without a cage with about three or four sharks. So you know, the idea is to see sharks in their natural habitat. Lisa was talking about the shark finning. It is incredibly brutal. Think, tens of millions of sharks every year are getting essentially slaughtered. Their dorsal fins are cut off and they're dumped back into the sea while they're still alive, and they basically sink to the bottom and the sharks are literally drowning in the oceans, all for shark fin soup.
So we wanted to kind of take a look at sharks in their natural environment. Most people aren't very sympathetic to sharks and it's understandable why. They are a top predator. They are scary. But there is another side to them and there's a lot we don't know about them and they have an important role in the eco-system of the sea. And without them, the whole eco-system of the sea will be affected.
KING: Now the three of you, Lisa, were working separately. Were you in touch during any of this?
LING: We were not in touch because we were in pretty remote locations. I mean, to do the shark finning piece, I actually traveled by boat 36 hours, 300 miles off the coast of Costa Rica. And even though it was difficult to maintain contact with people, because it was CNN we were able to figure out an Internet connection. So that was kind of exciting.
KING: Sanjay, you and Anderson both reported on the last "Planet in Peril" last year. Is the sense of crisis any sharper?
GUPTA: You know, it is like so many things in life and society, Larry. People pay attention to things for a while. But it takes some sort of disaster for people to sort of refocus. We hope that by doing these specials, that we're going to keep the pressure on and the thinking on, the impact on.
You know, 1970 is when you had the sort of formation of the EPA. And it sort of languished for a while and there was Bhopal in 1984, there was Chernobyl in 1986. People started paying attention to global warming, the ozone layer. And every now and then, something sort of sparks an interest again. And we hope this special does just that.
KING: Anderson, is there anything in this that you declined to cover?
COOPER: No. We were pretty willing to go just about anywhere. Sanjay and I spent time a fair amount of time in central Africa hunting viruses that could become the next global epidemic. That was something I hadn't known much about, but it was really eye opening. These viruses coming from animals. And certainly going diving, as you're looking at right now, with the sharks was just an extraordinary experience. It's something I will never forget.
KING: Anderson has got to get ready for "A.C. 360." Thanks for joining us, Anderson. We look forward to that tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern.
Lisa, what kick do you get out of doing this?
LING: Well to be honest with you, I was really enlightened by all the stories that I worked on. And for me, the intention here is to raise the level of consciousness about these dwindling resources. I mean, let's face it. Over the last couple of decades, we have had very little regard for where things come from. And as a result, I think we are starting to see the consequences of it. So is it urgent? I think it absolutely is. We are experiencing are experiencing armed conflicts around the world as a result of the depletion of resources.
KING: Sanjay, how do you get time away from your medical work?
GUPTA: It is challenging. You know, when you do this sort of work, it's interesting having two jobs because when you go and you're off shooting like this, the hospital considers that a vacation. So then you have to come back and you have to make up the time. And in the end, you really get no vacation time.
But these are important stories, as Lisa mentioned. Larry, I have two daughters, another one on the way now. I used to think that so many of these issues were theoretical, they were going to happen some time, way in the future, not in my lifetime. And now having visited these places, this is happening now. Some of the stuff that you're going to see in this documentary, that is happening today.
KING: Thank you all very much. Anderson Cooper, Lisa Ling, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, this airs tomorrow night at 9 Eastern, "Planet in Peril: Battle Lines."
Hey, want to be part of our show? Go to CNN.com/LarryKing and enter our blog or answer our daily quick vote question. And while you're there, check out our pod cast and other Web features. There's a lot going on at CNN.com/LarryKing.
Alec Baldwin is here Friday night and Monday night, Jim Carrey. But right now, Anderson Cooper and "A.C. 360." Anderson?
