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American Morning

Illinois Governor Arrested; Gore and Obama Meet on Climate Challenge; Bill Clinton Loopholes

Aired December 10, 2008 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: It's coming up now to 7-0-0 -- 7:00 Eastern Time, and here are this morning's top stories.
New speculation this morning that officials in Illinois could be working to oust or remove Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. He remains free on bond, facing charges of conspiracy and fraud. The lieutenant governor is calling on her boss to consider a provision in Illinois's constitution to voluntarily step aside.

Congress could vote today on a $15 billion bailout for Detroit's big three automakers. Aids at the White House and on Capitol Hill say a deal has been hammered out and would create a government car czar to oversee how the money is spent. However, many congressional Republicans are not on board and could kill the measure during a vote.

And the former president of Finland, Martti Ahtisaari, receiving the Nobel Peace Prize today in Oslo, Norway. He's receiving the award in recognition for years of mediating conflict across the globe, just this week trying to shore up support for Kosovo's independence from Serbia.

We should also mention that American economist, Paul Krugman, receiving his Nobel Peace Prize today -- his Nobel Prize in Economics today.

Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich may have little to celebrate today on his 52nd birthday. He's accused of trying to sell Barack Obama's Senate seat to the highest bidder. The charges are conspiracy to commit fraud and solicitation of bribery, including allegations that Blagojevich was seeking high paid jobs for him and his wife, campaign funding and also cold, hard cash.

The governor also contemplated naming himself to the seat hoping for a run for president in 2016. Special investigations unit correspondent Drew Griffin is following things from Chicago for us this morning.

And, Drew, this is kind of like a long, hard downfall for this man who first represented Illinois in the U.S. congress, became its governor and now people are wondering where he went off the rails.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE UNIT CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And it came crashing down, John, exactly 24 hours to this moment when the phone inside the governor's house right behind me was ringing. That phone was the FBI telling the governor that federal agents were at his door waiting for him to come out so they could arrest him and take him into custody.

Many now calling on him to resign. The legislature, possibly even seeking an impeachment. All of this in the wake of a corruption scandal that is stunning even by Chicago standards.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): According to prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, if you wanted something big in Illinois, you had to pay the governor. Pay to play. The fabled Wrigley Field, "Chicago Tribune" journalists and most stunningly a U.S. Senate seat.

PATRICK FITZGERALD, U.S. ATTORNEY: Governor Blagojevich has taken us to a truly new low.

GRIFFIN: That new low comes because the governor actually gets to appoint whomever would take over Barack Obama's now vacated Senate seat. And according to federal prosecutors, Blagojevich has been secretly recorded discussing his intentions to auction the seat off to the highest bidder.

FITZGERALD: The conduct would make Lincoln roll over in his grave. The governor's own words describing the Senate seat, "It's a (bleeping) valuable thing. Thing you just don't give it away for nothing."

GRIFFIN: How much? The complaint says $500,000 to a million dollars. The pay to play scheme as prosecutors alleged also included trying to get "Chicago Tribune" journalists critical of the governor fired in exchange for state help selling the tribune's Wrigley Field ballpark.

It had been an open secret all over Illinois that the Feds had Blagojevich in their sights ever since the conviction this year of political fixture and real estate king, Antoine Rezko. In October, Fitzgerald placed court-approved wiretaps on the governor's home phone and his political office.

On Monday, Blagojevich addressed the media that had reported just last week the Feds wiretapped him.

GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: If anybody wants to tape my conversations, go right ahead. Feel free to do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This wiretap I can tell you from the FBI agents who participated in this wiretap investigation were thoroughly disgusted and revolted by what they heard.

GRIFFIN: If convicted of the charges, the governor could spend a maximum 30 years in prison, a place where his predecessor, the former Illinois Governor George Ryan, now resides. Illinois' current governor has not commented since being released.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: And, John, this drama will continue to play out today with the governor's attorneys saying the governor is going to show up at his office for work while the rest of the politicians here in Illinois try to decide what happens next with Governor Blagojevich and especially with that U.S. Senate seat vacated by Barack Obama -- John.

ROBERTS: You know, Drew, we should remind people that Patrick Fitzgerald is the U.S. attorney who brought down Scooter Libby, threw the fear of God into Karl Rove during the whole Valerie Plame leak investigation. And some people are wondering why in the heck would Governor Blagojevich taunt this guy with an almost kind of Gary Hart style of bravado saying catch me if you can?

GRIFFIN: Yes. It is really strange. And beyond just what he said yesterday and the announcement that there was wiretaps last week, this investigation, as you know, John, has been going on for years here in Illinois, circling around government contractors, people who deal with the governor, the governor's office. So, you know, this has really been coming in tighter and tighter circle around the governor and, yet, apparently, allegedly according to the prosecutor, it just continued.

ROBERTS: It would be really interesting to talk to the governor and to find out just what the heck he was thinking about.

Drew Griffin for us this morning.

GRIFFIN: Absolutely.

ROBERTS: Drew, thanks so much for that.

CHETRY: Meantime, the president-elect has joined the chorus of Illinois politicians reacting to the charges against Governor Blagojevich, but he did keep his remarks pretty brief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I had no contact with the governor or his office and so we were -- I was not aware of what was happening. And as I said, it's a sad day for Illinois. Beyond that I don't think it's appropriate to comment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Obama also said like the rest of the people of Illinois he was saddened and sobered by the news. The president-elect says he and the governor never discussed the Senate seat at any time.

Blagojevich's arrest is just another chapter in Illinois's corrupt history. Get this, four of the last eight governors have been convicted of crimes. So, too, have other Illinois lawmakers. Here's more in an "AM Extra."

Former Governor George Ryan, a Republican, was also indicted on corruption charges. He's in prison right now convicted of 18 counts of taking bribes and misusing state resources for political gain back in 2006. Now before Ryan became governor, he replaced Dan Rostenkowski. Rostenkowski pleaded guilty to mail fraud in 1996.

And in June, Tony Rezko who served as an adviser to Blagojevich, was found guilty of 16 counts of fraud, money laundering and bribery.

ROBERTS: It's coming up now on seven minutes after the hour. Let's take a look now at news across the nation. There has been no final agreement yet for workers staging a sit-in at a Chicago factory. Negotiations resume today. The factory's creditor, Bank of America, has offered a limited loan to help pay the workers that have been laid off their severance pay and vacation pay. But the union says there are still details to resolve.

Forty years after civil rights laws were passed in America, the country's housing is still racially segregated. A new government report also says that that divide contributed to the subprime mortgage meltdown, and it says a new government agency is needed to enforce some of the civil rights laws that were passed in 1968.

CHETRY: A New Jersey commission says state lawmakers should allow same-sex couples to marry. It could kick start a debate over whether the state will be the first to allow gay marriage by passing a law instead of by court mandate. The commission has found that New Jersey's current civil union law doesn't go far enough to grant equal rights to lesbian and gay couples.

And you may notice some people missing from your office today. Well, organizers in California have dubbed this "day without a gay" asking supporters of same-sex marriage to "call out gay to work today." They hope to show how much the country relies on gays and lesbians. The day also coincides with International Human Rights Day.

ROBERTS: Some people are calling it the rainbow flu.

Well, with the election over, everyone is suddenly saying what they're really thinking, including none other than "Joe the Plumber" lashing out against one half of the McCain-Palin ticket. Was it the governor or the senator? We'll have that answer for you straight ahead.

CHETRY: Also, a meeting of the minds in Chicago. What did Barack Obama, Joe Biden and Al Gore really talk about?

It's eight minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: It's 11 and a half minute after the hour now, and time to fast forward to stories that will be making headlines a little later on today.

At 10:00 a.m. Eastern, the House Financial Services Committee will hold a hearing on the $700 billion federal bailout bill discussing a new government report on what the Treasury Department is doing with your tax dollars. That will be interesting.

Also at 10:00 this morning, in Washington, the National Archives is giving a preview showing documents handwritten by George Washington giving his thoughts on the president's oath of office. It will also documents showing that slave labor was used to build the White House.

And the White House and Democrats in Congress say they have hammered out a deal for a $15 billion auto bailout. Sources say there are still details to be sorted out. There could be a vote today, but it's unknown if the bill will have enough Republican votes to pass.

That's what we're following this morning. A lot of news ahead, Kiran. We're watching it very closely.

CHETRY: John, thanks.

Well, you know, before the news of the governor of Illinois' arrest yesterday morning, the name Rod Blagojevich was not really well known to people outside of his state. Gary Tuchman is now taking a look at the man behind the scandal -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, to much of the country the allegations against the Illinois governor are stunning. But incredibly to many in Illinois, after decades of political scandal, it's not that shocking.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN (voice-over): On the day before he was arrested, Rod Blagojevich was supporting laid off Chicago factory workers and playing tough guy toward authorities who have been investigating him for years.

GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: I don't care whether you take me privately or publicly, I can tell you that what whatever I say is always lawful.

TUCHMAN: But the authorities feel oh so differently.

PATRICK FITZGERALD, US ATTORNEY: Governor Blagojevich has taken us to a truly new low. Governor Blagojevich has been arrested in the middle of what we can only describe as a political corruption crime spree.

TUCHMAN: The first Democrat to be elected governor of Illinois in three decades was taped all right. The allegations against him stunned even reporters steeped in Illinois' sorry history of corrupt politics.

RICK PEARSON, "CHICAGO TRIBUNE": It just defies explanation.

TUCHMAN: Rick Pearson has been a political reporter with the "Chicago Tribune" for 20 years. He says in the first year of Blagojevich's first term, he made an effort to be a reasonable governor.

BLAGOJEVICH: I support the governor's decision on the moratorium. TUCHMAN: Blagojevich's backed the moratorium on the death penalty, supported by previous Republican Governor George Ryan, imprisoned now because of his own political troubles. But after Blagojevich's first year, he started making a lot of enemies, not just Republicans but his fellow Democrats.

PEARSON: He's a very difficult person to try to figure out. People were always asking about, will Blagojevich do X or do Y, and somehow he'll end up doing Z.

TUCHMAN: A "Chicago Tribune" poll on October showed the governor's approval rating at 13 percent. But even recently, the governor, who used to be a state representative and congressman, characterized himself as a popular guy when talking about who he would pick to fill Barack Obama's Senate seat.

BLAGOJEVICH: I've never had more friends than I do today and when I make the final decision, I won't have nearly as many as I have now.

Thank you very much. God bless all of you.

TUCHMAN: Blagojevich made some politicians so mad that one Democratic state senator said he would have kicked his tail end if an argument ahead was in a tavern. Some have questioned whether Blagojevich is stable.

In a Chicago magazine article, Democratic state Representative Joe Lyons told reporters the governor was "insane." And another Democrat, Representative Jack Franks, says he has "delusions of grandeur."

PEARSON: A lot of people have raised a number of questions including fellow Democrats, including I believe the spokesman for the House -- Democratic House speaker, you know, wondering if there isn't some kind of psychological imbalance going on.

TUCHMAN: Only hours before his arrest, a smiling governor declared --

BLAGOJEVICH: I don't believe there's any cloud that hangs over me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Getting back to that --

BLAGOJEVICH: I think there's a lot of sunshine hanging over me.

TUCHMAN: It should be noted when he was taken into custody, there was no sun to be seen in Chicago's gloomy sky.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: It should be noted that Governor Blagojevich was re- elected in 2006. But his approval ratings have plummeted since. And it's obvious that the situation is now at a low point -- John, Kiran.

ROBERTS: Gary Tuchman reporting for us this morning. Gary, thanks so much for that.

News breaking this morning, vitamins will not help lower the risk of prostate cancer in men. So, what will help? We're paging our Dr. Gupta. He's got the latest scoop at 16 minutes after the hour.

CHETRY: It's one of the most important issues an administration has ever faced.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: America seeks a world with no nuclear weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: Barack Obama's nuclear weapons stance. No nukes or newer nukes. Does the president-elect hold the same views as the man he left in charge of defense?

You're watching the "Most News in the Morning."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Eighteen minutes after the hour. Time for a look at your Wednesday political ticker.

"Joe the Plumber" opening up during a radio interview with conservative Glenn Beck, saying he was so appalled by Senator John McCain's answers about the bailout that he wanted to get off the senator's bus. As for Sarah Palin, he calls her the "real deal."

The list gets longer for those eying Hillary Clinton's seat -- the open Senate seat. Eight-term New York Congressman, Republican Peter King, says he might seek Clinton's seat in 2010. If confirmed, the secretary of state and immediate successor to Senator Clinton would be appointed by New York's governor, David Paterson.

And the House Ethics Committee announcing it will expand an investigation into New York Representative Charlie Rangel. They're looking into money given to Rangel's Center for Public Service at the City College of New York and also tax breaks given to a corporation that made the donations.

And if you're away from your TV and need the latest political headlines, you can get them any time at CNN.com/ticker.

ROBERTS: Barack Obama and Joe Biden meeting behind closed doors with former Vice President Al Gore, and the president-elect saying that when it comes to dealing with climate change "the time for delay is over."

Our Elaine Quijano is live from Chicago this morning for us. Quite an interesting meeting yesterday.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It was an interesting meeting, John. Good morning. President-elect Barack Obama says green jobs are a way to strengthen the United States both by boosting the country's economy and also bolstering national security by reducing America's dependence on foreign oil.

Now at that meeting yesterday with former Vice President Al Gore, Obama said that global warming is a problem that he will deal with in a serious way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: The time for delay is over. The time for denial is over. We all believe what the scientists have been telling us for years now that this is a matter of urgency and national security. And it has to be dealt with in a serious way. That's what I intend my administration to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now the president-elect has said as part of his economic recovery plan to try and deliver some 2 1/2 million new jobs, he plans to launch the biggest public works project since the federal highway system was created in the 1950s. Part of that would include doing things like modernizing and upgrading federal buildings, to install more energy efficient technologies. Again, the president- elect really believes that's the way to not only save taxpayer money but also get Americans back to work -- John.

ROBERTS: You know, I've been inside some of those LEED-certified buildings that Leaders in Environmental Energy Design, they're just amazing what people are doing with this green technology these days. But what about back to Al Gore. Any chance that he's going to end up working for this administration in a direct fashion?

QUIJANO: You know it doesn't seem very likely. In fact, there was no word coming out of that meeting that there had been any kind of position offered. And, in fact, a spokeswoman for the former vice president said yesterday look, the former vice president is really content and is really quite fulfilled with the role that he is serving in now and that is educating the public. He really has felt that that is his calling, is what his spokeswoman said.

Democratic officials for their part have said that the president- elect was not looking to tap Al Gore for any position, cabinet level or otherwise within the Obama administration. So it seems as though there's not going to be any kind of formal role that Al Gore will be playing. But certainly a lot on the agenda as they look at this economic recovery plan and the plan to try and add some green jobs to the U.S. economy.

ROBERTS: All right. Elaine Quijano for us this morning. Elaine, thanks so much.

Let's me just clarify to you, LEED is Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design. But amazing buildings some of them. Bill Clinton promised to open up his books so that his wife could become secretary of state. But there are some lucrative loopholes for the former president to take advantage of. We'll take a look at what he can and cannot do.

It's coming up on 23 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: It's coming up on 26 minutes after the hour. Welcome back to the "Most Politics in the Morning."

Opening up his books and laying out his finances, former President Bill Clinton brokered an unprecedented deal for his wife to become the next secretary of state. But how much have his wings really been clipped?

"Politico" senior reporter Ken Vogel has been looking into all of this and he joins me now from Washington.

So, have his wings really been clipped, Ken, or are there some loopholes that he could jump through here?

KEN VOGEL, SENIOR REPORTER, "POLITICO": Well, there are a number of loopholes, John, that experts say will allow him to do pretty much exactly what he did before albeit in a slightly different form.

So, for example, while he won't be able to accept contributions from foreign governments to one of his main philanthropic groups, the Clinton Global Initiative, he will be able to accept it from foreign governments for another big group, the Clinton foundation, and he'll still be able to give speeches and enter into consulting agreements with foreign groups and foreign governments, provided that he first goes to state department ethics officials and tells them hey, I'm going to do this.

Of course, there's not really a whole lot that they can do to prevent him from doing so. So a lot of diplomatic experts say, you know, this is kind of a recipe for disaster.

ROBERTS: Back to this idea of not being able to accept contributions from foreign entities for the Clinton Global Initiative, I mean, this is the big sticking point because if your wife is the secretary of state, you don't want to look like you're having dealings with foreign governments that could compromise her position and her ability to faithfully carry out the president's policies. But does it absolutely strictly prohibit him from doing that, or is that just one of the things that he needs to run through into the state department's office of ethics and/or the White House counsel's office?

VOGEL: That's right. He really just needs to flag it and say hey, I'm thinking about doing this and there's not a whole lot that either of these groups can do about it. Of course, she does serve at the pleasure of Barack Obama. So, if he is displeased with some of the things that Bill Clinton is doing, what he can do is fire her but that would really be a political disaster. ROBERTS: Yes. I mean, nobody wants to fire their secretary of state, particularly for what their husband is doing after you've had an agreement with the husband that they're not going to contradict each other.

What about on the issue of speeches? He has said that, you know, some of the speeches he's going to run through either the office of ethics at the state department or the White House counsel's office, but is it really plausible that some mid-level bureaucrat is going to sit there going line by line through everything that Bill Clinton is going to say?

VOGEL: Well, not only is it not plausible, it's not possible because he is not going to submit the speeches themselves. All he's going to do is say hey, I'm thinking about giving a speech in Qatar or Saudi Arabia and then go ahead and do it. He's not going to submit the text.

And even if he did, of course, we all know that Bill Clinton is not known for his verbal discipline, shall we say. And that's really the risk here that he would go and have an audience with a foreign leader or foreign group and say something that is different from the message that the Obama administration is trying to get across on a range of very sensitive nuance issues and that could really hurt both his wife, secretary of state Hillary Clinton, and the Obama administration in the foreign policy arena.

ROBERTS: Yes. I covered him for a couple of years at the White House and the advance text of the speech that they gave you was purely a guide because he would go off script so many different times.

But what about this idea, though, of releasing the names of the donors to the Clinton foundation and I guess to the global initiative as well. This is a pretty big step because a lot of those people didn't want their names out there in the public.

VOGEL: That's right. This is a huge step because it's not required by law and because, like you said, a lot of these folks gave under the understanding that they could do so anonymously. So, to after the fact go back and disclose their names, A, there could be some really interesting stuff in there. B, it could possibly reduce donations going forward because the same types of folks who wanted to give anonymously might think twice before giving to the Clinton foundation or the global initiative.

ROBERTS: But I guess the bottom line is a lot of this will be self-censorship. And is he known for having the discipline needed to do that?

VOGEL: Well, as we just talked about, you know, certainly verbally, he kind of goes off the reservation sometimes and that is really a risk for the Obama administration because foreign policy is very delicate. You want to make sure you have one message coming forth from the administration. And even though Bill Clinton will not be tactically working for the administration, I think a lot of folks around the world are going to associate him with the administration. ROBERTS: This is going to be a fascinating four years.

Ken Vogel from "Politico," good to see you this morning. Thanks.

VOGEL: Thanks a lot, John.

CHETRY: 7:30 here in New York. A look at the top stories this morning.

America's chief envoy to North Korea, Christopher Hill, says talks with the secretive communist regime reached a stalemate. A summit between the six countries was being held in Beijing trying to find out a way for Pyongyang to account for its nuclear activity, seen as a major step in the eventual disarming of North Korea.

Riot police clashing with thousands of Greek protesters outside of parliament in Athens. This going on as a general strike continues to paralyze the country shutting down schools and hospitals. The riots started after police fatally shot a teenager Saturday. A lawyer for the officer said that the bullet that killed the teen was a ricochet, it was a warning shot.

President-elect Obama says that his presidency is a chance to improve U.S. relations with the Muslim world and that he'll be sworn in by his full name just like every other president, Barack Hussein Obama. He said he hopes to create a relationship of mutual respect and partnership with the Muslim world. Well it could become one of the most important decisions facing any president since the end of the cold war. Should the Obama administration build more nuclear weapons as part of a strategy to eliminate them later? Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre is taking a look at the contradiction in today's "Memo to the President."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Mr. President, so you say you're committed to ridding our planet of its deadliest WMDs.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: It's time to send a clear message to the world, America seeks a world with no nuclear weapons.

MCINTYRE: But your holdover defense secretary famous for his pragmatism has a different view.

ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Try as we might and hope as we will, the power of nuclear weapons and their strategic impact is a genie that cannot be put back in the bottle at least for a very long time.

MCINTYRE: Robert Gates sees the world with the (INAUDIBLE) of the old spy master he is and argues forcefully America not only needs it's atomic arsenal but needs new improved bombs to strike fear in future foes. GATES: Let me be clear. The program we propose is not about new capabilities. Suitcase bombs or bunker busters or tactical nukes. It's about safety, security and reliability.

MCINTYRE: The U.S. hasn't tested its nukes for 16 years. It's one reason Secretary Gates is anxious to replace America's aging nukes with a new smaller arsenal of modern warheads. Even without testing the newer nukes would be far more reliable he argues and it could be outfitted with hi-tech safeguards to prevent their use if they ever fell in the wrong hands.

So, Mr. President, you want no nukes and Gates wants new nukes. Good thing you've given yourself plenty of wiggle room.

OBAMA: As long as nuclear weapons exist we'll retain a strong deterrent. But we will make the goal of eliminating all nuclear weapons and central element in our nuclear policy.

MCINTYRE: So what exactly do you have to decide? One is whether to build the so-called reliable replacement warhead, a multi-billion dollar program to replace aging weapons. Congress so far has rejected money for that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: And the other issue, Mr. President, you have to decide is whether the U.S. should join the nations around the world who pledge never to test nuclear weapons again. That treaty still hasn't been ratified by the U.S. Senate. The answers will determine whether the pledge to eliminate nuclear weapons remains an elusive goal or turns into a solid promise.

CHETRY: Certainly, a big challenge ahead. Jamie McIntyre for us this morning. Thanks.

Also tomorrow's "Memo to the President" is what to do about Cuba. The country is seeing new freedoms under President Raul Castro but it is also cozying up to Venezuela and Russia. Our Morgan Neill takes a look from Havana in tomorrow's "Memo to the President."

We also want to hear from you. Send us your "Memo to the President. Go to CNN.com/am, click on the i-report link to post a question or perhaps challenge to the president-elect.

ROBERTS: The war in Iraq, it's been called a quagmire. But what about the war in Afghanistan? We'll take with someone who says Afghanistan is one of the greatest challenges that's facing the president-elect. And you've been told since you were a kid to take your vitamins but do they really help prevent prostate cancer or do they do any good at all? We're "Paging our Dr. Gupta" this morning. He of course has got all the answers. 34 and a half minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PATRICK FITZGERALD, U.S. ATTORNEY: The most cynical behavior in all of this, the most appalling is the fact that Governor Blagojevich tried to sell the appointment to the Senate seat vacated by President- elect Obama. The conduct would make Lincoln roll over in his grave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: Well stunning allegations after Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich was arrested for fraud and conspiracy. A 70 some pages of wiretap transcripts. So what will the scandal mean for president- elect Barack Obama? Democratic strategist Robert Shrum, contributor for theweek.com joins me from D.C.. Thanks for being with us this morning.

Good to see you, Bob.

ROBERT SHRUM, CONTRIBUTOR, THEWEEK.COM: Glad to be here.

CHETRY: So, here's what the president-elect said yesterday when asked about the Blagojevich scandal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: This is an ongoing investigation involving the governor. I don't think it will be appropriate for me to comment on the issue at this time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: And Bob, some political reporters are saying it really wasn't enough of an answer. Slate.com's John Dickerson writing that "part of Obama's answer is so vague as to be nearly meaningless. It's a little hard to believe that he don't know anything that was happening related to his old seat." How much of a problem could this be for Team Obama?

SHRUM: I don't think it's going to be big problem at all. I think Patrick Fitzgerald made it clear yesterday that there's nothing connecting this with the president-elect. He said very clearly himself the president-elect did yesterday that he had no discussion with Governor Blagojevich about this. I mean this, is theater of the absurd. This guy has more hair than sense. I mean, he planned to shake down the president-elect, Warren Buffett and Bill Gates. That's crazy. Maybe he ought to plead not guilty by reason of insanity. But if you listen to those tapes or read what was said, Blagojevich doesn't like Obama. He's mad at Obama. He thinks Obama won't give him anything.

CHETRY: Right. It's interesting, though, because you said that he, Barack Obama maintained that he never spoke to Blagojevich about the Senate seat. Then you had David Axelrod though on the 23rd of November telling a local Chicago affiliate that he did discuss it, Obama and Blagojevich, that they discussed a whole range of names. And then Axelrod clarified and said he misspoke back in November. So, any of that affecting what's going on in Illinois, will this affect his future at the White House? SHRUM: Well, first of all, David is one of the most honest people, not only one of the most talented, one of the most honest people I've ever met in my life. Secondly I could have given that answer. It's the kind of thing where somebody says what's happening with the Senate seat. Oh, he and the governor are discussing that, discussing a number of names. You say it as a matter of course, you don't even think about it. You haven't checked it. I just think there's nothing here.

CHETRY: I got you. And then Jake Taper from ABC News talks about how Obama's transitional team made a big deal about transparency. And he argues that it means you got to talk about things that you're not necessarily comfortable with as well saying that "American people need to find out as much as possible as soon as possible about what role anyone Team Obama played in any of the various shenanigans that Governor Blagojevich is accused of committing." Is it unrealistic to expect that as the investigation continues?

SHRUM: No, I think as the investigation unfolds, we'll find out for example if someone from Obama campaign or the Obama transition team informed Patrick Fitzgerald that they had some kind of contact. But there's absolutely no evidence that can be made transparent at this point that I'm aware of that connects Barack Obama in any way to this. I think this is the non-scandal of the century in terms of Obama. Look, FDR had Taminy Hall. He didn't tarred with it. John Kennedy had there were serious internal problems with state government in Massachusetts. He never got tarred with that. I think three months from now we'll be talking about Blagojevich but not in connection with Obama.

CHETRY: I got you. Let's move on to another topic that you write about in your op-ed for theweek.com about the need for Barack Obama to pay attention to Afghanistan and some of the difficulties it poses. You write that Afghanistan has the potential to become what Iraq was for so long for Bush, a quagmire without exit. Quagmire a pretty loaded word. What has or hasn't Obama said that gives you cause for concern as it relates to Afghanistan?

SHRUM: Well, you've just moved me from the unbelievable to the intractable. What we know about Afghanistan is that the Russians when they had 100,000 troops there only controlled about 20 percent of the country. That our own intelligence analysts say that we're in deep trouble there. That Secretary Gates wants to try a whole new set of what's called soft power to see if we can defeat the enemy by making friends. I don't necessarily think the enemy will cooperate with that. What Obama said on "Meet the Press" this weekend I thought was very interesting. He said we may have to settle for a very limited goal. And I think that's right. Because we forget that in Iraq it wasn't just the surge, it was the fact that we made peace with all these Sunni groups called the Sunni awakening. We may have to make peace with a lot of groups in Afghanistan that we don't necessarily share the same democratic values with as long as they forswear terrorism. But I doubt that we'll remake the country in our own image and likeness.

CHETRY: Are you talking about the Taliban here? How do you get them -

SHRUM: Look, you got war lords all over the place. They call themselves different things. They have much more effective control than the central government. I don't think we're going to get 500 or 600,000 troops in there from us or from the Europeans. Ultimately he has got to find a way forward that's going to be less than a sub- optimal solution but that removes Afghanistan as he said on "Meet the Press" as a base of operations for terrorism.

CHETRY: Bob Shrum, always great to talk with you. Thanks for being with me this morning.

SHRUM: Thanks.

ROBERTS: Well rolling on down the street, slipping on ice and snow, commuters take an unwanted detour. Have a look at this. A lot of people have been there. More of the amazing video coming up right after the break. First, Rob Marciano tracking the stormy weather. Good morning, Rob.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN, METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, John. 61 right now in Boston and three degrees in Minneapolis. Quite a difference. And in between a big old mess. We'll run it down when "the most news in the morning" comes right back. It's 42 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: A live look this morning, Dallas which is going to be President Bush's new home very soon. Right now, partly cloudy and 34 degrees. Later on it will be partly cloudy at 45 degrees. And our apologies that we didn't have any theme music for you there. But a fellow who is producing this hour, Brian Bell, wanted to run theme from "Dallas" over the picture. Wasn't going to happen. Rob Marciano tracking the extreme weather from the Weather Center in Atlanta this morning. We've issued an edict. Brian Bell has got to start choosing music from like 1989 and onwards, you know.

MARCIANO: Listen. "Dallas" is an old time '80s favorite and I wouldn't mind waking up to a little bit of that music. You've mentioned Dallas.

ROBERTS: You and Brian.

MARCIANO: Hey, why not. Great minds think alike.

35 degrees at the observation last night in San Antonio after daytime high of 85. Dropped 50 degrees in just a few hours, unbelievable. So we've got a huge difference in temperatures. We've also got a decent amount of snow. Pardeeville, Wisconsin, they got a foot, yes, the kids probably party. Midland, Michigan also seeing some snow and some rain just to the east of it. Snow yesterday in New Mexico, if you were in the 6:00 hour you saw some of this video. News vehicles being hit by oncoming traffic. Skidding out of tropical near Santa Fe. So people just skid out, running out of the way. And there's more to come. Look at this thing getting flipped over into that drainage ditch. So dangerous weather there in New Mexico. That has come to an end and is now moving to the east. There's a little sliver of snow on the north side of this system but for the most part it's going to be rain. We do have severe weather, tornado watch in effect for the next few hours. One just issued moving towards east and a couple of tornado warnings have been issued in the last hour across parts of the Florida panhandle into southern Alabama. This much needed rain. So we'll take that. Got to deal with the severe weather hopefully no injuries today but we will see much needed rain across the southeast with this frontal boundary which will slowly push the east coast. Colder and drier air expected behind it. John, back up to you.

ROBERTS: It's mild out in New York this morning. Not really liking the rain a whole lot.

MARCIANO: Enjoy it while it lasts, my friend.

ROBERTS: Rob, thanks for that. Good to see you.

MARCIANO: All right. You too.

CHETRY: All right. President-elect Obama said that he quit smoking but he also admits to falling off the wagon. So what's the best way for him to quit for good? We'll talk about it.

Also elephants being killed for their ivory. Your first look at dramatic new "Planet in Peril." Lisa Ling shows us the tragic way that poachers leave these magnificent animals after they take their tusks. It's 48 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: When it comes to math and science, Americans may be smarter than we thought. A new international study found that U.S. school kids that made gains in math since 1995 scoring above average on fourth and eighth grade tests. But students across Asia still dominate in math and have gained more ground in science in the meantime.

CHETRY: Well, the American Cancer Society says one out of every six men will face prostate cancer in his lifetime. And to make matters worse, new studies are finding that vitamins don't really help reduce the risk. We're "Paging Dr. Gupta" this morning. What vitamins are we talking about that people thought may have helped?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm sorry, I didn't hear your lead-in there, Kiran, so I apologize. But let me tell you something. We have been following this study for some time, this idea that vitamins, specifically vitamins "E," "C," and selenium, could offer some benefits in terms of preventing prostate cancer. People sort of believed this for some time thinking that there's a oxidative process that takes place when cancer forms, and if you can give strong anti-oxidants, you might be able to stop the cancer and a lot of smaller studies suggested that was true. But now there are some pretty definitive larger studies, people studying 50,000 people and following them for 13 years. The bottom line is it doesn't seem to lower the risk of prostate cancer. That's the headline, if you will, from this study.

Now, it doesn't mean that multivitamins as a general rule are bad. That's not something you should take away from this. A multivitamin can still fill a lot of gaps in your diet especially if your diet is not perfect from day to day like many of ours aren't. But I think there's a larger issue here, the issue is this idea of trying to take the good stuff, if you will, out of food. Things like broccoli, tomatoes, you name it, the good vegetables, and trying to put it in pill form just doesn't seem to work that well. There are a lot of micronutrients that sort of surround that food. It helps us absorb the stuff and it doesn't seem to translate into vitamins as well and that may be part of the reason they didn't ward off the prostate cancer.

CHETRY: Are you able to hear me now?

GUPTA: I got you now.

CHETRY: OK. Good. So what is the new evidence about as far as marriage as it relates to prostate cancer?

GUPTA: I found this kind of interesting. This wasn't as big a study. And it may have had more to do about people living with somebody or having somebody really concerned with their health than anything else than whether or nor you're married. But take a look at the headline here, overall they said that single men are 40 percent less likely to be get screened for prostate cancer. Now, you know, there's a lot of hypotheses on why that might be, it could be let's see nagging isn't the right word, a persistent wife perhaps who encourages their husbands to get screened or just someone who really cares about your health. Look no one, I would venture to say, no one enjoys going through cancer screenings, but having a health advocate of sorts either in your family or outside can really help. And I think it's a message to the potential advocates out there as well as the potential patients.

CHETRY: Yes, I make all my husband's doctors' appointments. I just make him here this is the day you're suppose to go. This is the day you're supposed to go to the dentist. You're a doctor, does your wife do that or do you get yourself checked?

GUPTA: You put me on the spot here. My wife does do that for me sometimes. No one likes to get cancer screenings I think as a general rule, but I'll thank her for it one day. Probably not the time I'm getting screened.

CHETRY: Even you doctors are afraid of doctors. How about that?

GUPTA: Sometimes, we're the worst.

CHETRY: Sanjay, thanks so much.

GUPTA: All right. See you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ROBERTS (voice-over): Today, birthday boy out on bail. But the Illinois governor won't be celebrating now. The latest on the wiretaps, the corruption charges and the brazen comments the FBI said he made about Obama that really brought him down.

plus -- ten-ton tragedy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just found a fresh elephant carcass about two miles from here and he's going to take us over there to see it.

ROBERTS: Your first look at a breathtaking "Planet in Peril" report, how the demand for ivory affects these magnificent beasts.

You're watching "the most news in the morning."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLTON HESTON, ACTOR: I want to say the fighting words for everyone within the sound of my voice, to hear and to heed, and especially for you, Mr. Gore. From my cold dead hands!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: The late Charlton Heston back at the 2000 NRA convention. Welcome back to the most news in the morning. Right now gun owners may feel their right to bear arms is being threatened, not by Al Gore but by the incoming president. Barack Obama says he'll protect that right, but gun owners are taking no chances. Gun sales have spiked since the election and the National Rifle Association is bracing to do battle with the new president.

Joining us now live from Los Angeles is Wayne Lapierre, he is the executive vice president and CEO of the NRA. Wayne, it's good to see you this morning. Gun sales have spiked 49 percent during the election week. Why did they go up, do you think?

WAYNE LAPIERRE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, CEO, NRA: John, I think it's the fact that in spite of the fact that President-elect Obama's campaign saturated the country with flyers saying he will always protect the second amendment and he will always protect gun rights, a lot of them expect him to break that campaign promise. They don't believe he'll stand up to the pressures of the anti-second amendment crowd that has been spoiling for this moment in history to attack the second amendment freedoms of American citizens.

ROBERTS: Not only did he say it during the campaign but he reiterated it again on Sunday. Let's listen to exactly how he put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I believe in common sense gun safety laws. And I believe in the second amendment. And so lawful gun owners have nothing to fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: He says it right there "lawful gun owners have nothing to fear." So what gives you cause to believe that he could cave in to pressure against people who are against the second amendment?

LAPIERRE: Well, Hillary Clinton said during the campaign, she said that he was only saying he was pro-second amendment to get votes. And she pointed out his record before he started running for president where he said he was for a handgun ban, a semi-auto ban. He said he was in favor of overturning the 40 states that have right-to-carry laws. He said he was in favor of a 500 percent increase in the excise tax on firearms and ammunition. That's $350 federal tax on a $500 rifle. And he also voted in the senate to put the American firearms industry out of business through those nuisance lawsuits. So, I think a lot of American supporters of the second amendment are suspicious and justifiably so on what he's actually going to do. I hope he keeps those campaign promises and if he does, we'll be cheering for him.

ROBERTS: Let me back up, if I could, Wayne, to what you said about the handgun ban. Are you talking about the 1996 questionnaire that was filled where he was asked what his position was on the handgun ban?

LAPIERRE: Yes, I'm talking about his statements that have been well cited in the past that he made to the press in Chicago and when he was a state senator up there.

ROBERTS: Because on that 1996 questionnaire, he answered yes, but then he later said, hey, listen, I didn't fill out that questionnaire, an aide did.

LAPIERRE: And then it was verified - John, it was later verified, though, it was in his own handwriting.

ROBERTS: Isn't there a difference, though, Wayne, between state and local politics and national politics? I mean, look at Rudy Giuliani? The NRA didn't look particularly favorable on his views on gun regulations and he came out in the campaign and said, whoa, when I was mayor of New York, that made sense, but if I'm president of the United States, I'll take a different position on this. Is it not possible for Barack Obama to take one position as a state legislator but then a different position as a federal politician?

LAPIERRE: Sure. I mean, he wouldn't be the first politician to try to recognize that the American public overwhelmingly supports this freedom, that - I mean, this is against the backdrop of President Clinton when he got in office thought he could ride a slow destruction of the second amendment to victory on the false presumption that the American public agreed with that, and he says in his book it cost the democrats the House of the Representatives in '94 and cost Al Gore the election in 2000. It - the American public wants its freedom defended and the NRA stands ready to defend it. I hope he keeps his campaign promises but I guess we'll wait and see.

ROBERTS: You're prepared to fight if there's any indication that he's not?

LAPIERRE: We sure are. We're going to defend this freedom. I think the Democratic Party's conflicted on this. I think you have the Georgetown cocktail wing, the San Francisco, Chicago, New York wing, that wants to ban this freedom. I think Union members all over the country, average rank and file Democrats, strongly support the Second Amendment, strongly support this freedom.

They want to prosecute criminals that misuse guns, as does the NRA, and take them off the street. And that's what we ought to be doing. Every time a felon touches a gun, a drug dealer touches a gun, a violent gang member, let's prosecute them 100 percent of the time. Put them in prison and make people safe.

ROBERTS: Wayne Lapierre --

LAPIERRE: Not pass more laws on the law biding.

ROBERTS: Wayne Lapierre, it's always good to see you. Thanks for joining us this morning.

LAPIERRE: Hey thanks, John.

ROBERTS: All right.

LAPIERRE: Appreciate it.