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Nancy Grace

Follow-Up Lags on Two New Caylee Sightings

Aired December 10, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen 25 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell. War breaks out over surveillance video. Is this little Caylee? A cell phone photo taken at an upscale Orlando mall sparks a battle over surveillance video and thousands of tips the Anthonys claim could bring Caylee home alive, the Anthonys fighting tooth and nail in court to get their hands on secret surveillance video from the mall. Is the mystery girl a profile shot of little Caylee?

And now another alleged sighting emerges at a local restaurant all the way across the country, Newport beach, California, all the while, investigators say multiple disks containing over 5,000 tips, taking over 50 man-hours to compile, have been sitting on a police desk, waiting to be picked up. But still, the defense attorney is a no-show. Is it because he knows that tot mom`s guilty of murder, rendering all the tips useless? This as grandparents George and Cindy Anthony publicly insist little Caylee is alive. Why? Do they believe it, or is it just trial strategy?

Both sides gearing up for a legal showdown. The tot mom`s murder trial set for January 5, the defense saying they`re considering a change of venue, but still dragging their heels on that and a speedy trial. And they just keep coming tonight, more stunning private jailhouse conversations between tot mom and her family, grilling her about Caylee`s disappearance. Tonight, where is Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New details emerge in the case of missing 3-year- old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. Tot mom Casey Anthony`s attorney, Jose Baez, reportedly wants surveillance video from the Central Florida Mall, the location of a possible Caylee sighting on November 16.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s this photo by two women using their cell phone camera at the Florida mall. Here Cindy Anthony e-mails the photo to both the sheriff`s office and the FBI, just one of the 5,000 tips which they believe have gone mostly ignored.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Florida mall has so far refused to release the video, so Baez plans to ask the judge to force the mall to hand it over. A separate Caylee sighting in Newport Beach, California, is being investigated by George and Cindy Anthony themselves, as they travel to the "left coast" to determine if the child sighted is a living, breathing Caylee.

GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: I`m doing everything I can, everything I can to help you and help her. I wish there was more I could do. I would give my life right now for you and for her to have you together.

CASEY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S MOTHER: I know that, Dad.

GEORGE ANTHONY: So would mom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, a gorgeous young morning show TV anchor brutally attacked, left for dead in her Arkansas home. After police admit very few clues at the scene, suddenly, a break. DNA evidence links a separate attack nearly 100 miles away, leading police straight to a prime murder suspect. Tonight, was the brutal assault of the 26-year-old Anne Pressly random, or was the stunning young anchorwoman the target all along?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking developments in the case of murdered Arkansas anchorwoman Anne Pressly. Authorities have arrested and charged 28-year-old Curtis Lavell Vance in the brutal beating and murder of Anne Pressly after DNA from Pressly`s home was linked to him. The DNA that was taken from Pressly`s home matched a suspect in an April rape case in a town 90 miles away. Police were led to Vance after a detective working the rape case suggested officers investigate him. DNA from Vance`s saliva matched him to both crimes, and now Vance faces capital murder charges. Pressly, who her parents say was also a victim of sex assault, was found bloody and beaten inside her own home. Pressly never regained consciousness, dying in the hospital five days after the attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you that the affidavit included facts that there was forensic evidence that was found in the victim`s home that connected him to the crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More breaking developments in the case of missing toddler Caylee Anthony. The alleged live sighting of Caylee at the Florida mall has caused a stir, and now Casey Anthony`s attorney wants video from security cameras inside the mall.

CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: There are just too many characteristics that stood out that it could be her. We`re not saying that it is her, we`re saying that it`s just another tip that somebody in the community believed it was her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to reports, Jose Baez will ask a Florida judge to force the mall to turn over video from November 16, the day multiple people spotted the child. While George and Cindy Anthony are out in California to appear on national television, they will also be investigating another live sighting of Caylee in the Newport Beach area.

CASEY ANTHONY: We miss her. We love her. I miss her. I love her dearly. And I want nothing more than for her to come home and to be safe and to be where she belongs with her family. It`s obvious that we`ll stop at nothing to get her back because I know in my heart, I know in my gut, I know with every ounce of my being that we will be with her again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, maybe in heaven. Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150. War has broken out over surveillance video. And it`s all sparked from this photo taken with a cell phone at an upscale mall, the Florida mall there in Orlando. Why won`t the mall just give the video to the grandparents? What`s the problem?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, the problem is, Nancy, is that the mall apparently has a policy through their management that they...

GRACE: Oh, please. Did you just say policy?

WILLIAMS: I`m just...

GRACE: Who cares about policy?

WILLIAMS: Well, I agree, Nancy, but here`s the deal. They`re only going to turn it over to Orange County sheriffs` investigators, since it is an active investigation. So they don`t want the Anthonys with their hands on it or anything else. So what...

GRACE: Why?

WILLIAMS: ... Jose Baez is -- because...

GRACE: Because what?

WILLIAMS: That is a good question, because three of the -- three security people have already seen this. They`ve already gone to the Anthonys. So Jose Baez...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait! They`ve seen it, they`ve gone to the Anthonys...

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GRACE: ... and said what?

WILLIAMS: We have this video, you should have it, you should see it. And the mall refuses to turn it over.

GRACE: Did you say that mall investigators or police investigators went to the Anthonys?

WILLIAMS: I`m saying mall security personnel.

GRACE: Mall security. OK. So to me, that is cruel to go to the Anthonys and say, Hey, you need to see this video, but we`re not going to give it to you. That is complete BS. Policy, shmolicy! It`s Florida mall in Orlando refusing to hand over the security video. And let me ask you something, Mark Williams.

WILLIAMS: Yes?

GRACE: Are the cameras obvious? Can you see the cameras, or are they where these people with this little girl would not have known they were being surveilled?

WILLIAMS: I have not been out to the Florida mall in a little more than a year, and...

GRACE: Did you see cameras, Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: I`ll tell you what, it`s probably Las Vegas style. Like any other mall in the country, you`ll see the brown bubbles or the black bubbles, and that`s where they probably shoot it from.

GRACE: You know what? You`re most likely correct. So tell me -- to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, joining us from Orlando. You know, this photo and this security video has been around since when? When was this photo taken, Petrimoulx?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: It was taken on November 16. And Jose Baez wants a subpoena -- he`s actually issued a subpoena for the tapes as a way of getting around this mall policy. He wants between the hours of 1:00 PM and 5:00 PM on that day. He wants those tapes, and he`s filed that with the courts.

GRACE: And isn`t it true, Natisha Lance, that he just filed a subpoena after we lambasted him on air for sitting on his thumb, doing nothing to get that videotape?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It is true, he did just file the subpoena as of Friday of last week. However, Nancy, I did speak to the Orange County sheriff`s office, and they said even if they wanted to get the surveillance video, they would have to file a subpoena, as well. It would just not be handed over to...

GRACE: Well, let me clue you in, Natisha. Filing a subpoena is not a big mystery. It`s very easy to do. In fact, let me show you. It`s a form. All you do is write, "state versus Casey Anthony," and you put the indictment number. You write in there, it`s a subpoena ducus tecum (ph), which means a subpoena not for testimony but for an object or a document. You fill in what you want and you deliver it to the mall. In Florida, you may have to get an OK from the court or the court clerk. It`s easy -- one, two, three. What`s the hold-up, Natisha Lance?

LANCE: Well, he`s filed it now, so I guess we`ll have to wait and see.

GRACE: He filed it now. Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn`t about a month passed since this photo emerged?

LANCE: Yes, this photo did emerge November 16. So it has been quite a while.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, former prosecutor out of D.C. Tad DiBiase, Alex Sanchez, veteran trial lawyer out of New York, and Alan Ripka, defense attorney also out of New York.

Alan Ripka, don`t they get it? Time is of the essence. You know, as in the Chandra Levy, where there was video, it was taped over. That`s very common in business establishments.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It absolutely is. And there`s often a policy of keeping a videotape, you know, for only 30 days because of storage. But in this case, Nancy, I`m quite sure that Jose Baez was on the phone, was trying to get this video and was probably assured it would be turned over to him. That`s why he didn`t file the subpoena.

GRACE: Right. So if you`re trying to find a girl, a little girl, that you believe is alive, Alex Sanchez, or so you say on the air -- so you say on the "Today" show, she`s alive -- instead of following up immediately and trying to find the little girl, you wait a month? Explain, Alex.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, I think that Mr. Baez believed that the police and the FBI went out of their way to try to get this tape. After all, why wouldn`t they go and get this tape and then turn it over to Baez and turn it over to the courts? So they waited a couple weeks, believing that the police would have followed a legitimate lead.

GRACE: A month.

SANCHEZ: But they didn`t.

GRACE: A month. Don`t say a couple weeks.

SANCHEZ: Wait a minute. Aren`t the police...

GRACE: The police said up front they don`t believe this is Caylee. They believe Caylee is dead.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Aren`t the police being irresponsible by not at least getting that tape, looking at it and resolving that problem and that issue once and for all?

GRACE: No. This is the defense argument. They`re the ones that want the videotape.

To Tad DiBiase out of D.C. Why did they drag their feet? I`ve got a theory. Because they may know that the tot mom is guilty of murder, and therefore, they know this isn`t little Caylee. So what`s the hurry, Tad?

TAD DIBIASE, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, it`s possible that`s true, Nancy, although I would say in no-body cases, it`s very common to have sightings of the victim. So it is incumbent upon the police and the prosecution to knock this down, if they`re able to do so, and presumably, they would be able to do so. So both sides should have gotten this tape as quickly as possible.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This grandmother says nothing is more frustrating to her than working with the sergeant in the Orange County sheriff`s office who won`t help her get the surveillance video from places where people say they`ve seen Caylee.

CINDY ANTHONY: If the sheriff`s office was requested, then it would make them look like they`re looking for a live Caylee, and that would hurt their case against my daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He told you that.

CINDY ANTHONY: He absolutely exactly told me that in his exact words.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a roadblock that isn`t deterring Cindy as she continues to look for her missing granddaughter while preparing for what may be her first Christmas without Caylee since she was born.

CINDY ANTHONY: Caylee has a tree for her room. Casey has a tree for her room. The kids have always had a Christmas tree from their very first Christmas.

If you think of anything that can help, don`t be afraid.

CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, I won`t hesitate to let you guys know.

CINDY ANTHONY: You can`t be afraid, Casey, of anybody. You`ve got to get that strength from me and your dad and your brother. I know you have it in you. OK? You need to get that strength inside and do not feel like someone can hang anything over you or anything over us or threaten us because, well, you have said, you`re protecting your family. You don`t need to protect the family. Family has been through a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: War breaks out of -- over secretly recorded video taken from an upscale Orlando mall, the Florida Mall. This photo that you are looking at was taken from a pedestrian, a shopper`s cell phone. She immediately contacted authorities. Is there video revealing this little girl? The grandparents say yes, and it will prove Caylee is alive. Authorities say no, the girl is dead. All the while, tot mom sits behind bars, facing a January 5 trial date for murder.

I want to go straight back to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter and one of the few people still searching for little Caylee. Leonard Padilla, what do you make of this sighting? Have you seen the shot of this little girl? And why doesn`t the mall just hand over the video to the grandparents?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, you`ve got a lot of bureaucracy involved there, but let me tell you...

GRACE: In a mall?

PADILLA: In a mall, you`ve got...

GRACE: I mean, I can see in Washington, D.C., but hello, a mall?

PADILLA: You`ve got bureaucracy. Until somebody in that mall steps forward and says, Here it is, take it, they`re just going to be at a stalemate. But let me tell you, Caylee...

GRACE: Go ahead.

PADILLA: Caylee, beyond all reasonable doubt, is deceased. The FBI knows it. Orange County knows it. Cindy and George know it. And most of all, Casey, the perpetrator of her death, knows it. They al absolutely, positively know it.

GRACE: Do you believe, Leonard Padilla, that that is why, when the grandparents get a tip -- for instance, this new tip out of Newport Beach, California at Javier`s (ph) restaurant -- they wait? They don`t release it to the public? They sit on it. They keep saying they`re going to have a press conference, they never do. Is it because they know the little girl is dead, or do they really believe she`s alive?

PADILLA: No, they think about it. They also know one thing, and that is that these tapes are taped over. They know that they want to raise doubt. They want to have one juror on that jury somewhere down the road possibly believe that maybe in Newport at Javier`s, she was there. It`s not true. It`s absolutely not true. It`s all fiction, and it`s made up to confuse the future jury, if there is ever a jury, if there is no plea bargain achieved.

GRACE: Very quickly, back to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150. I want to talk about this shot. Mark, apparently, it`s in a common area, it`s not within any particular store. Is there a play area? You know, like in McDonald`s or Burger King, they have, like, a little play area, like a mini-playground for children? Where is this?

WILLIAMS: It appears that it was taken in the -- like, the center court area of the mall. That`s kind of the common area where everybody kind of congregates, wait for their spouses to come out of stores.

Now, this picture was taken by a woman by the name of Hilema Solomita (ph). She is a worker, an employee of a nearby jewelry store only feet away from where this little girl was found. She took the picture. And then she was with a friend. They tried to call Crimeline, or one of tip lines here in town, and they waited 20 minutes. They finally just hung up the phone because they didn`t get any response.

GRACE: And Mark, what can you tell me about the location of this mall? Is it near an interstate, or is it a place that only locals would know about?

WILLIAMS: No, it`s well known. It`s even well known by international travelers. During my visits over there to the mall, I see a lot of folks from other countries coming in there. It`s at the corner of Sand Lake Road and Orange Blossom Trail. It`s a very big commercial area. You know, I`ve been -- I went to -- first came down here about 25 years ago to look around, and the area has just exploded with commercial ventures.

GRACE: So basically, anybody could have been in that mall, not just locals with the Caylee look-alike.

WILLIAMS: That`s right.

GRACE: Back to the lawyers. To Alex Sanchez, defense attorney out of New York. Is it just trial strategy? Because if I were the defense, that`s the first thing I`d put up on a big-screen TV -- Look, here she is. This is little Caylee, and the police haven`t investigated it.

SANCHEZ: You know, I don`t believe that. I think that`s a very cynical approach to what is happening...

GRACE: I`m asking you.

SANCHEZ: I think that these parents believe that that child is alive, and they have a right to look at possible sightings and examine that evidence to see if there`s any truth to it.

GRACE: And isn`t it true, Alan Ripka, if you want to win a case, you`ve got to anticipate what the other side is going to do.

RIPKA: Of course you do, Nancy. But don`t forget, this is strangers who took this photo. The Anthonys had nothing to do with this photo being taken, so there was no trial strategy here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: Dad, I don`t care about all this other stuff. I mean, I don`t care about the media. I don`t care about what people have been saying about me. That doesn`t matter because I know it`s not true and everyone that knows me knows it isn`t true. All I want is Caylee home. But I want to be there when she comes home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Somehow, it all always gets back to the tot mom getting out of jail. Not one single legitimate conversation about the search for Caylee on these recorded jailhouse videotapes. As we go to air tonight, the grandparents, George and Cindy Anthony, are in California following up on a lead out of Newport Beach, California.

What can you tell me about it, Natisha Lance?

LANCE: Well, this tip came five days after the Florida mall sighting, so it would have been November 21. Apparently, this little girl was with a family of Spanish origin. The family was speaking more Spanish, the little girl was speaking more English. There was a couple there. They spotted this little girl.

Now, they didn`t report this tip until just last week. Now, police, because it was so long after this actually occurred, they weren`t really able to follow up on it as much as they would like to, but they did refer them to central Florida Crimeline, and central Florida would get back with police if there was anything that they needed to follow up on.

Now, I spoke to the manager at Javier`s restaurant. She said that no one in the restaurant has come forward and said that they actually saw this little girl. Also, they do have surveillance cameras at this restaurant. However, since so much time has passed, they said that they don`t keep those tapes for very long.

GRACE: Once again, to Vince Velazquez, homicide detective out of the Atlanta metro area and hostage negotiator -- Vince, they sat on their thumb, and it was taped over. Why? Doesn`t anybody watch TV?

VINCE VELAZQUEZ, HOMICIDE DETECTIVE, ATLANTA METRO: Nancy, if they wanted that surveillance videotape, they have -- he`s an officer of the court, just like I am as a detective, like any prosecutor is. He could have dropped the subpoena off a month ago. He would have had that tape already. I don`t know what the strategy is. I`m not an attorney. But it does seem to me that waiting for the tape, there is a possibility that when they go to get it, it won`t be there.

GRACE: You`re certainly right, Vince. And back to Natisha Lance. You stated "they," they didn`t report it. Who is "they"? Who are you talking about? Who didn`t report the Newport Beach, California, sighting?

LANCE: That is this couple who saw her. It is apparently a lawyer and his girlfriend. The girlfriend is the one who went to the police department to make this report. However, they have given sworn affidavit statements to the private investigator for the Anthony family. And they said that they are very credible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I just want her back.

CINDY ANTHONY: I know you do.

CASEY ANTHONY: God!

CINDY ANTHONY: You have to keep thinking positive. Positive feelings, Casey.

CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, I know. I have been. I`ve been staying as positive as I can.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: She is beautiful. You know that, I know that. And I`m hoping.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I hear that every day. I know.

G. ANTHONY: I said, you know, that the photos of her are beautiful. But when you see her in front of you, the eyes.

C. ANTHONY: She`s captivating. She`s absolutely captivating.

G. ANTHONY: She has a personality that`s so, so remarkable. And I said, I owe that, you know, to my daughter, I owe that to my wife, myself, I -- you know, my son. Other family members that have made her so excitable because she`s just a fantastic little girl.

C. ANTHONY: She has the best in all of us, and that`s something I`ve been thinking about. She has the best that we all do. And she shows it all the time. I mean, she has the little quirky things about her that you do, you know, or that you have and same thing with mom.

I mean, she is the best of the four of us. She is. She`s that top point in our star. You said that we`re like a hand. We`re also like a star.

G. ANTHONY: There`s a lot of hard decisions to make. We`re trying to find that little girl. We`re trying.

C. ANTHONY: I know you are.

G. ANTHONY: I mean all of us have experienced a lot of different things. We have so many questions. We have emotions and -- but if there is anything at all that you want to share, you know, you`ve got to share it. You know, write it down. You know? I mean, I know Mr. Baez is working on your best interest, but, you know.

C. ANTHONY: My number one.

G. ANTHONY: Let me ask you something. Would you be interested in talking to, like, an FBI guy or something?

C. ANTHONY: Anyone that you guys want to bring in, I`ll talk to.

G. ANTHONY: OK. That`s great, that`s great news. OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Battle breaks out over secretly-recorded mall surveillance video after this cell phone photo emerges from the Florida mall there in Orlando.

As we go to air, grandparents, George and Cindy Anthony in California, following up on a tip out of Newport Beach, California at a local restaurant called Javier`s. A lawyer and his girlfriend spot a Caylee look-alike.

But has the video been taped over?

Straight back to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150, did police follow up on the Newport, California tip?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: They did, Nancy. They went out there after they received the report, and they talked to the manager. They also talked to some of the employees. But there were no witnesses.

The employees didn`t know really what was going on. All they had was that tip that was given to them by that couple. And that`s pretty much it, Nance.

GRACE: Out to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist from John Jay College of Criminal Justice. He`s a paid consultant to the Casey Anthony defense team. You know, in the last 24 hours, defense attorney Jose Baez has gone on national TV, suggesting he wants to go forward with trial January 5.

Are you prepared to testify?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, CONSULTANT TO CASEY ANTHONY DEFENSE TEAM: Oh, I am prepared to testify. I can tell you that he has been not just doing the "Today" show, but, you know, he`s been visiting experts, and he has been working hard.

He`s an advocate, he`s zealous, and he really believes that the child is still alive, and everything will come out in the courtroom.

GRACE: Really? So you`re prepared to testify without having viewed the evidence? I`d never let you get on the stand like that.

KOBILINSKY: Well, I would testify about certain things. Obviously, I can`t testify.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear you. Repeat?

KOBILINSKY: I said I would testify about certain things that are within my area of expertise.

GRACE: And your area of expertise is DNA.

KOBILINSKY: That`s correct.

GRACE: OK. So to the lawyers, Tad Dibiase, D.C., Alex Sanchez, New York, Alan Ripka, New York.

Alan, the first thing he`s going to be asked on cross-examination is, isn`t it true, Dr. Kobilinsky, tell the jury, you haven`t even seen the evidence? You haven`t handled it. You haven`t held it in your hands and looked at it. Much less put it under a microscope, isn`t that true?

Question number one.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s true, Nancy. What he`s going to be asked is what supports his opinion? You`re giving an opinion, you want the jury to rely upon, but you have nothing to support it, because you have not investigated the evidence and it`s not going to be credible.

GRACE: Alex?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know I seriously doubt Dr. Kobilinsky is going to get on that witness stand without having reviewed all the.

GRACE: He said he`s ready.

SANCHEZ: . available.

GRACE: He said he`s ready.

SANCHEZ: But this case is definitely not going to trial on January 4th. There is too much information. There`s too many reports that have to be reviewed and completed.

GRACE: Oh, listen now, wait a minute.

SANCHEZ: And Dr. Kobilinsky is probably.

GRACE: Alex.

SANCHEZ: . not prepared nearly to get on the witness stand and testify yet.

GRACE: I know Kobilinsky. I know Kobilinsky, and believe you me, he`s read every existing report backwards.

SANCHEZ: And there`s additional reports.

GRACE: But he hasn`t seen the evidence. He hasn`t seen the evidence, Alex.

SANCHEZ: Well, that`s exactly why he is probably not going to testify on January 4th. He wants more time. I know Dr. Kobilinsky, very thorough, he wants more time to review this evidence so that he could be -- so he could testify properly.

GRACE: Yes, you know what? There is a reason he is summoned in all over the country, Tad Dibiase, because he`s thorough. And what he hasn`t done, though, is he hasn`t put that hair, that`s his expertise. DNA. Deoxyribonucleic acid.

He has not put that hair, the death hair, the so-called death hair belonging to Caylee, found in the trunk of tot mom`s car under a microscope. He hasn`t viewed the back of the car to see that stain ostensibly human DNA. Human stain from decomposition.

So wouldn`t you agree the first question on cross-exam is why haven`t you seen the evidence, Doctor?

TAD DIBIASE, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Absolutely. You can`t have credibility unless you have actually looked at all the evidence and evaluated it. To do so without getting up there makes it easy fodder for a prosecution to, frankly, rip you apart in front of a jury and then toss you aside when your own experts take the stand and say we have looked at this evidence. It`s not -- I think it is also unlikely it was.

GRACE: So all this that the defense attorney is saying, for instance, on the "Today" show, is complete and total BS.

Take a listen to the defense attorney on national TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: She`s innocent. Absolutely, 100 percent innocent. And we`ll have our day in court. We`ll be able to tell everyone the full story. Not just a fraction of it where people have been assuming the worst.

And quite frankly, you -- can`t judge someone`s life based on a fraction of the story. Currently, right now, what we`re doing is doing the research and the different areas, different media markets to see exactly where`s the best place to see if we could possibly try this case.

That we should be submitting to the court shortly.

We believe that Caylee is alive. And what we want to do -- as her attorney, I have a responsibility to Casey. And that is to do the best job possible. So it`s not an issue of rushing to get a trial, just because we expect a body to be found.

MATT LAUER, "TODAY" SHOW HOST: So will you delay the trial?

BAEZ: Well, that`s not something we`re willing to do, either. My client is sitting in jail. She wants to clear her name. She -- she wants her day in court, and we want to have our day in court. So really, it`s all about getting the job done right, going into -- going into trial prepared. And that`s the key goal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Really? It`s just about answering Matt Lauer`s question, trying to sound like you`re making any sense.

That`s Jose Baez, defense attorney on NBC`s "Today" show, adamant that little Caylee is still alive.

Correct me if I`m wrong, but didn`t I just hear him say, Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist out of L.A., he said, "We`re doing research to find out if we could try the case." Clue. You`re going to try the case, Jose Baez. You`re going to trial whether you like it or not. I mean is that a Freudian slip?

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "I KNOW WHAT YOU`RE THINKING": Oh, you bet. And so is his body language, if you look at it. You know when he shakes his head no, and he is saying things in the affirmative. So there is a lot between the lines when you look at that interview.

GRACE: Like what? What? What am I supposed to read from the body language? You`re the expert.

GLASS: Well, you`re supposed to read that he doesn`t think she`s alive, because you see -- you know, Caylee is alive, we really believe she is, as he shakes his head no. And that tells you a lot. The body doesn`t lie.

GRACE: Oh, you mean like if I say yes, yes, and I`m shaking my head no, I`m giving -- got it.

GLASS: Yes.

GRACE: All right. OK. Speaking of body language, take a look at tot mom behind bars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: If we don`t find her, you know, they`re building -- they`re trying to build a case against you, honey.

C. ANTHONY: They`ve already -- that`s what they`ve been doing. I know that`s the other two detectives` main goal is building a case.

CINDY ANTHONY: I know, and that`s why I`m so frustrated because I know.

C. ANTHONY: That`s why I`m frustrated. That`s why I don`t want to speak to either of them because it`s not going to do any good. It really isn`t.

CINDY ANTHONY: Well, we`ll make it happen with this other person.

C. ANTHONY: Thank you.

CINDY ANTHONY: And like I said, if we can get an outside source, like FBI to talk to.

C. ANTHONY: If you can get someone outside, that`s fine. Bring in whoever. By any means.

CINDY ANTHONY: OK.

C. ANTHONY: You and I are on the same page with that. We will do whatever is necessary.

CINDY ANTHONY: OK. All right, honey. I believe that.

Is it just the local police you don`t feel comfortable to?

C. ANTHONY: Oh, it`s just.

CINDY ANTHONY: Or is it just the authority in general?

C. ANTHONY: It`s those two specific. It`s Adam Zembelic. No, Happy Wells. The other.

CINDY ANTHONY: Allen and Melich.

C. ANTHONY: Allen. Yes. Sorry, John Allen and Melich.

CINDY ANTHONY: OK.

C. ANTHONY: The other guy that came to the house, I don`t know if you remember him very well. He went by Happy. His last name is Wells.

CINDY ANTHONY: Happy Wells? You want to talk to Wells?

C. ANTHONY: I would speak to him -- of any of the -- you know, the detectives.

CINDY ANTHONY: Would you speak with him with Jose or by himself?

C. ANTHONY: I would speak to him alone, with Jose, it doesn`t matter. He`s -- we had a lot of conversations when I sat up in the room that day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: TV anchorwoman, Anne Pressly, beaten and stabbed at her home in Little Rock. The 26-year-old was found by her mother, unresponsive and bleeding from severe wounds.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our hearts are heavy here at KATV after learning that our own Anne Pressly died from injury she suffered during a brutal attack on her home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities have arrested and charged 28-year- old Curtis Lavelle Vance in the brutal beating and murder of Anne Pressly after DNA from Pressly`s home was linked to him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is specific forensic evidence that they were able to link directly to the suspect. The Little Rock Police Department, I know, throughout the entire process, was extremely careful in their processing of the evidence, and making sure that they have a good, strong solid case. And so we`re confident in that aspect.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you`re confident they have the right person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, absolutely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are a the although of people that are really intensely eager to find out what the facts are, and at this point in time, due to all the hard work at the police crime lab, we probably don`t need to say.

I can tell you the affidavit includes facts that the -- that there were forensic evidence that was found in the victim`s home that connected him to the crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: About 4:30 in the morning, this stunning young anchorwoman`s mother comes to her home to find her daughter left for dead. Her face crushed and bleeding so badly, police originally thought she had had been stabbed.

In fact, it was a beating death. Five days later, after lingering in the hospital, she passes away. Now tips lead police nearly 100 miles away to a prime suspect.

To Dana Bradley, reporter with KARN Newsradio and former co-worker of Anne Pressly`s, what`s the latest?

DANA BRADLEY, KARN NEWSRADIO, FMR. CO-WORKER OF ANNE PRESSLY: Well, Little Rock District Judge Lee Martin has set a gag order on the case, and that`s become the big news here, because the local paper here says, no, that`s not right.

They`re trying to find out some information dealing with Curtis Lavelle Vance who is the suspect in this case, who`s in jail here. They want to read different jail log records and try to find out what they can, but it`s pretty much under a gag order, so there`s not too much more we can find out from the Little Rock Police Department.

GRACE: Well, I know this much, Jane Velez-Mitchell, the host of "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL" airing just before our show -- Jane, I know that DNA apparently links him not only to Pressley, DNA found in the form of semen, blood and even skin under Pressly`s fingernails.

She fought to live, apparently attacked in her bed as she lay sleeping. DNA links him, allegedly, to not only her attack, but a rape attack, nearly 100 miles away.

JANE VELEZ MITCHELL, HOST, ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s right, Nancy. And that alleged rape occurred seven months earlier, and it took the authorities months and months and months to process that DNA.

And the question is, why did it take them so long? Because had had they processed that DNA and tracked down this suspect, Curtis Vance, months earlier, Anne Pressly might be alive today.

But it took them a long time. Then they finally matched up that DNA from that then unsolved rape with Pressly`s DNA, the same person, and they tracked this Curtis Vance down to this little town 100 miles east of Little Rock. They interviewed him, he gave a DNA swab. Turns out that`s the guy, and that`s how they caught him.

GRACE: Correction, Jane Velez-Mitchell, she would be alive today.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are right.

GRACE: You hit the nail on the head.

Back to Dana Bradley with KARN. You know, when they got the Pressly case involved, it took them one day, one day to match up the DNA. But that rape case, 100 miles away lingered for months?

BRADLEY: Well, they`re saying -- I asked that question. And the thing with that is, when they got that DNA from the rape case from the young -- the teacher who was raped in Mariana, they didn`t have a suspect to match that DNA to. So when the second case -- when the second case came about with Anne Pressly, the DNA was in the system already.

So that`s how they matched the two together. So it did take a long time for the DNA to come back. But they did not have a suspect to match the DNA to.

GRACE: Well, that makes sense, Dana Bradley. But let me ask you this. Does he have a criminal history? Was his DNA already in the DNA data bank, CODIS?

BRADLEY: No, it wasn`t. His prior history was basically for traffic tickets and stuff like that. He did not have a criminal history, and they were -- he was under investigation in Mariana for burglaries and things of that sort, but nothing that he had been arrested for.

GRACE: Which goes back to my premise.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Tad Dibiase out of Washington, Alex Sanchez and Alan Ripka out of New York. I believe that when you`re charged with a felony, such as burglary, if you go to trial, and you`re convicted, or you enter a guilty plea -- to Alan Ripka -- I think your DNA needs to go, not just to your fingerprint, but your DNA needs to go into CODIS that day, because they would have matched him up to the original rape, and Pressley would be alive today, Alan Ripka.

RIPKA: Well, you`re saying had they arrested him on the burglary charge, she would be alive today. Like your prior guest said, there was no link to him at that particular time. So it wouldn`t have mattered, Nancy, in this case.

GRACE: He had prior -- Dana, did he have a prior burglary?

BRADLEY: He was under -- the Mariana police were investigating him for burglary.

GRACE: Oh, just under investigation. I understand. Thank you, Dana.

BRADLEY: He hasn`t been arrested for burglary.

GRACE: Thank you, Dana.

Now, isn`t it true, Jane Velez-Mitchell, that women at a gym, a sports club had stated he was stalking women outside the club? I mean this guy`s been everywhere. Everybody knew he was roaming around neighborhoods where he didn`t live. He was hanging around sports clubs, ogling women that came in and out?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly, Nancy. Why wasn`t he picked up for these burglaries? Because at one point, the police in the small town in which he lives, Mariana, said, oh yes, you know, there is this guy that has been lurking in yards and going into people`s houses and he`s a suspect in a couple of burglaries.

Why wasn`t he arrested if he was a suspect in a couple burglaries? And why was he out there lurking around until they finally got this DNA, and they put two and two together?

GRACE: And to Alan Ripka, defense attorney out of New York, the MOs of the two attacks, rapes, one a murder, in addition, are startlingly similar, both inside a freestanding home, not an apartment, the woman home alone, he breaks in undetected, a sex attack goes down, and flees with certain objects.

It`s -- I predict that one will come in at the trial of the other.

RIPKA: As you know, Nancy, the judge will make that determination before the trial starts to determine whether or not that evidence is more prejudicial than probative.

GRACE: Come on, Alan, you know it`s coming in. We`ll pick that up when we come back.

But as we go to break, a special happy birthday to Georgia friend of the show, Macey, celebrating her sweet 16 today.

Happy birthday, Macey.

And at your request, new photos of the twins. They`ll be on the Web tonight. I hope you like them. Here`s John David, exploring nature, and Lucy, look. You only buy expensive gifts, and I`ve got a few that were gifts, but her favorite toy is this old box. There`s nothing in it.

Oh, they got that monkey as a gift, and they must put it on their heads. There she is back in the box. John David with the monkey and his pretend cell phone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had felt all along that the police had a very solid, very strong case. So that tells me the judge concurred with the evidence that was presented to him initially. So we`re looking forward to a trial in which we anticipate that the prosecutor will prevail in a capital murder case, and then we`re looking forward to a conviction that is appropriate for capital murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The stunning anchorwoman died five days later from a brain stem that was ruptured. The crime scene covered in blood, apparently throwback from the murder weapon.

Back to Jane Velez-Mitchell from "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL," was a murder weapon ever discovered in Pressly`s murder?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, and I have to say, Nancy, that this woman was so brutally beaten that there were literally bones popping out of her face, and her left hand was broken, pointing out that she put up a fierce and valiant struggle.

The other woman who says that she was raped by this same individual, has courageously come forward and said that she was attacked from behind. She didn`t put up a struggle and she is alive to talk about it.

GRACE: To Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist out of John Jay College of Criminal Justice, the crime scene must be a field day for crime scene techs getting DNA evidence.

KOBILINSKY: Sure. There`s a lot of blood spatter, I think that is -- that reveals a lot about the events that took place during the attack. Different kinds of patterns.

GRACE: Right.

KOBILINSKY: . dynamic static, so there`s a lot of information there.

GRACE: Alex Sanchez, he`s likely looking at the needle.

SANCHEZ: Yes, I mean, this is a very egregious crime and you know, if he gets convicted, certainly these aggravating factors are going to come into consideration before the jury, and there`s a very good chance that if he`s convicted, he`s looking at the end of a rope or he`s looking at a needle.

GRACE: Let`s stop and remember right now Marine Lance Corporal Kelly Waters, just 19, Virginia Beach, Virginia, killed in Iraq, on a second tour, awarded two Purple Hearts, combat action ribbon, lost his life, his parents by his side as he battled severe injuries at a stateside hospital.

Dreamed of buying a Dodge Charger, loved dance, music and movies. Favorite snacks? Slim Jims. Leaves behind parents, Peter and Lisa, three brothers and one sister.

Kelly Watters, American hero.

Thanks to our guest but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END