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Campbell Brown
Obama Addresses Illinois Governor Scandal; Remains of Caylee Anthony Found?
Aired December 11, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone.
Tonight, we are learning subpoenas have now been issued in the corruption case of Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. "The Chicago Tribune" says it has been ordered to turn over documents.
Now, since this whole story broke, we have been telling you about president-elect Obama keeping a very safe distance from the governor's troubles, maybe too safe.
Bullet point number one tonight, Obama finally speaks at length about Rod Blagojevich and the charge that he tried to sell Obama's Senate seat. Obama insists today he and his staff knew nothing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I have never spoken to the governor on this subject. I am confident that no representatives of mine would have any part of any deals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We will also look tonight at why the case against the governor could already be showing some signs of trouble.
And then bullet point number two tonight, a grim discovery down in Florida. The remains of a child have been found near the home of Caylee Anthony's grandparents, a tragedy either way. The question now, has an agonizing missing persons case watched by the whole country reached a sad milestone? Randi Kaye is monitoring late- breaking developments for us on that story. We will have more for you as well.
And bullet point number three, my NO BIAS, NO BULL interview with director Ron Howard. On the same day that he and his film "Frost/Nixon" earned Golden Globe nominations, we're going to ask him about the controversy surrounding another powerful politician and, yes, tapes.
And bullet point number four tonight: swimming with sharks. Our Anderson Cooper comes face to face with one of the most fascinating and dangerous ocean creatures. We are less than an hour from the premiere of "Planet in Peril" here on CNN.
But, first, you will get to see Anderson in a bit of peril himself. Before any of that, though, as always, we're "Cutting Through The Bull" tonight.
And let's establish one thing right at the outset. Of course, the governor of Illinois is innocent until proven guilty. That is a bedrock principle of American law and applies in this case as surely as in any other. All the things we have been talking about, all the things we will be talking about this evening are allegations. The whole point of a criminal trial is to settle beyond a reasonable doubt whether the things that have been alleged are in fact true.
So, yes, for now, the governor of Illinois is innocent.
But it is preposterous, outrageous, really, given the charges against him that Rod Blagojevich is still in a position to name Barack Obama's successor as junior senator from Illinois. I mean, when police officers are facing serious charges, they are routinely suspended from active duty, pending resolution on the charges against them.
They are innocent until proven guilty, sure, but common sense dictates that no dangerous chances be taken while the jury is out. Shouldn't that be the case here, too? How can it happen that a man accused of trying to sell a seat in the United States Senate still has the right, if not to sell the seat, to legally give it away?
And then imagine having Rod Blagojevich come out today to announce that you're the next Illinois senator. I mean, talk about the kiss of death. At this point, I will bet he could make out like a bandit soliciting a handsome fee not to name certain people senator.
Back, though, to the important thing, and that is the presumption of innocence. It is sacrosanct. But the system should incorporate some mechanism, something to keep a figure facing extraordinary charges from doing harm while those charges are being investigated.
And now, for the very latest on the Blagojevich case, it wasn't the reason that Barack Obama called a news conference this morning. But in the first two minutes, the president-elect was forced to acknowledge the political elephant in the room. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Let me say that I was as appalled and disappointed as anybody by the revelations earlier this week.
I hope that the governor himself comes to the conclusion that he can no longer effectively serve and that he does resign.
In terms of our involvement, I will repeat what I said earlier, which is, I had no contact with the governor's office. I did not speak to the governor about these issues. That I know for certain.
What I want to do is to gather all the facts about any staff contacts that I might -- may have -- that may have taken place between the transition office and the governor's office. And we'll have those in the next few days, and we'll present them.
But what I'm absolutely certain about is that our office had no involvement in any deal-making around my Senate seat. That I'm absolutely certain of.
And the -- that is -- that would be a violation of everything that this campaign has been about. And that's not how we do business.
I have not been contacted by any federal officials. And we have not been interviewed by them. As is reflected in the U.S. attorney's report, we were not, I think, perceived by the governor's office as amenable to any deal-making. And, you know, I won't quote back some of the things that were said about me. So -- this is a family program, I know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, did Obama's answers today clear up all the questions?
We did hear him say his staff still needs to be questioned about any possible contact with the governor's office.
Jessica Yellin is in Chicago. She's covering the transition. And she's got the very latest for us tonight.
And, Jessica, you know, after all Obama said today, still a lot of things we don't know. The open questions are, who was it, who talked to the governor or to the governor's office, and did anyone on Obama's team possibly tip off the feds? I know you're talking to sources. What's going on there behind the scenes?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I will tell you, Campbell, they are on lockdown to the outside world. But, internally, they are going through this fact-finding process, which one person inside described that to me as not formal because it's a very small universe of people who could have possibly made the contact or been contracted by Blagojevich.
So, who are those people? Well, at the kernel, the reason Obama is even really involved in this is because it seems that Valerie Jarrett, one of his closest aides, was one of the people that the governor hoped to trade, horse trade in some way to get her a Senate seat in exchange for something,some way he gained.
Who could have overheard conversations or been involved in conversations where that came up? Rahm Emanuel, the chief of staff to Barack Obama, was a congressman here. And his 5th District was named by Blagojevich in these tapes.
David Axelrod was formerly, many years ago, an adviser to Blagojevich and could have heard things through Chicago politics. None of these people are implicated in any sort of wrongdoing, but what they're trying to do right now is make sure they get every single fact nailed down, so Barack Obama or one of his aides can come out soon and give us all the information to hopefully, in their view, put this issue to rest. And, in the meantime, we have to wait -- Campbell.
BROWN: And, Jessica, you know, it was quite a difference today in terms of how forthcoming he was compared to his initial response. Was there some concern that his initial response didn't get the job done?
YELLIN: Well, they're careful. They're not naive.
I mean, everybody knew they had to say more. There was enormous pressure on them. And one of the people I talked to said, look, I asked, why did he even say it in his opening statement, when he wanted to reserve the opening statement today to talk about health care and jobs?
And they said, listen, he had to get it out there. Why not just dispense with it at the beginning?
So, yes, they knew it wasn't enough, and they know that today still wasn't enough. They will have to say more, again, but they would like to do one big dump of last information to get it out there and then hopefully move on -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Jessica Yellin, of course staying on top of it for us. We will be talking with her as there is information to update you on.
Jessica, thanks so much.
In just a moment, what our panel thinks about whether Obama said enough today to shield himself from the Blagojevich scandal.
And then later, the wiretaps, all the evidence against the Illinois governor. The case looks strong, but we're going to handicap the weak spots. Lisa Bloom says it is anything but a slam-dunk.
Plus, tonight's "Planet in Peril" special. Anderson Cooper takes swimming with the sharks to a new extreme. We have all seen the video, but it's pretty hard to believe. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": So, any recommendations for what to do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, basically, don't scare the sharks.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you go into the water...
COOPER: I'm not worried about scaring the sharks. It's usually the other way around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Anderson will be here shortly. We will talk to him about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: This Senate seat does not belong to any politician to trade. It belongs to the people of Illinois. And they deserve the best possible representation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Barack Obama not yet president, but some people argue the Rod Blagojevich case is the Obama administration's first real political crisis.
We are going to talk about the political issues facing Obama tonight with three people who are very much in the know on all of this, CNN political analyst Roland Martin, CNN contributor Stephen Hayes, senior writer for "The Weekly Standard," and Carol Marin, political columnist for "The Chicago Sun-Times."
Welcome to everybody.
Steve, let me start with you.
Today, we saw Obama right out of the gate at this press conference, a much stronger statement condemning Governor Blagojevich, saying he's confident no one from his staff took part in any deals for the governor's office. Plenty of calls for him -- that came after, I should say, there were plenty of calls for him to be more transparent.
Did you think he do enough today to tamp down this controversy?
STEPHEN HAYES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think he sort of hit pause. I don't think we learned a ton new in terms of the facts of the case or the facts of the, you know, potential contacts between his staff and the governor's staff.
But I think, you know, he sort of properly recalibrated what he said a couple days ago, when he said he was saddened about the news to today, when he said he was appalled, which I think is sort of where everybody else was when they first got the news.
BROWN: And, Roland, we know what the questions are, essentially, that -- for Obama to answer. They surround the part of the complaint that talks about Senate candidate number one, widely believed to be his close friend and adviser Valerie Jarrett. This is what he needs to clear up, isn't it?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No.
Well, you say he needs to clear it up, but you still have an ongoing investigation. Here is what we also do know in terms of what is happening here, in terms of Valerie Jarrett. She actually was interested in the particular position. She was never Obama's number- one choice. He was talking to her about also the White House. And so the question is, who was talking to Blagojevich? What were they saying? He actually offered her the job on November 9. And so -- and it was announced November 14. The conversation Blagojevich had took place two days after she had already accepted a White House job.
And, so, the whole notion of who supposedly talked to Blagojevich, we really don't know that. But, also, many lists were being made. OK, so, Blagojevich didn't necessarily have to talk to anybody with the Obama campaign to understand that she was a possible contender for the job.
BROWN: Yes, but even the -- I mean, even Obama made it clear today that he's trying to get to the bottom of who on his team may have had those conversations.
MARTIN: Of course.
BROWN: So, it's not like he's not denying that anybody talked to them.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Right. What he is trying to do is say, if there was contact, let's find out who it is, put the information out there, so we're not asking the exact same question single night as to was there anybody who talked to the governor or the governor's office?
BROWN: Carol, you say that the way Obama has dealt with this whole emerging situation is, in your way, classic Obama. Explain what you mean.
CAROL MARIN, COLUMNIST, "THE CHICAGO SUN-TIMES": I think it means this, Campbell, that he is not just a pragmatist, but he's an incrementalist.
We saw it with his response to Jeremiah Wright. There was a response. Then it grew as the din grew. And, finally, it was at its most forceful. With Tony Rezko and all the questions about his fund- raising and his corruption probe, it was a small response. It took about a year for Obama to come to editorial boards and have a full and long discussion, after, again, he said he needed to explore with his staff exactly what happened and to talk about what he knew.
This is the same sort of profile. For better or worse, sometimes, it seems cool, and detached, but he's very much in control of his message and deliberates over it for a long time.
BROWN: Steve, what do you think, a strength or a weakness in a case like this? You know, if Obama had been more forthcoming initially, maybe the focus today would have been more on health care, what he actually called the press conference about.
HAYES: Yes, I'm not sure he could have been much more forthcoming initially. I think what he -- the misstep, if there was one, was that he wasn't sufficiently outraged. These charges are crazy charges. Anybody who has read this 76-page affidavit is just -- I mean, appalled is the right word. It's totally outrageous. And for him to come out and just say that he was saddened I think wasn't tough enough.
But I really like the word incrementalist. I think that's such a great description of how he approaches these problems. And, as Carol points out, that can be a strength and a weakness.
I think the potential weakness, you know, looking beyond, you know, this immediate scandal, the Blagojevich scandal, is that, as president, a lot of times, you don't have the time to sort of recalibrate and recalibrate again on your responses to things. You have to come out with the right response right away, or you're sort of swamped by the problem.
BROWN: Well, you agree with that, Roland?
MARTIN: Well, look -- well, first of all, absolutely, in terms of how he responds to issues. He is cool. He is somewhat detached. And, so, it's a matter of, OK, we're going to make this comment.
Look, I was at the press conference today. He made a -- he discussed the Blagojevich issue in his opening comments. And so he recognized he had to speak to that particular issue.
But, also, one of the most critical issues, this is a criminal complaint. You have an indictment possibly. You have a grand jury. This may go to trial a year later. There's so many other steps here, that you don't necessarily want to get knee-deep in this. You want to be at arm's length as much as possible from this case.
BROWN: And quickly, Carol, the issue now is so few days -- you know, for the next few days, we're all waiting to see what they're going to see about the contacts and whatever he discovers after they do these interviews with the staff.
But, beyond their message, I mean, to what extent does it affect the work they actually need to get done?
MARIN: As long as this goes on and as long as the Illinois scandal is on the front page of "The New York Times" in bigger type than his transition and his appointments, then it's a problem.
I think this is a no-brainer. This required a passionate, strong response. And right now, it needs a hasty -- I mean fast, if not hasty -- investigation of what amounts to a small circle of associates to say, what did you know and when did you know it?
BROWN: All right, guys, we have got to end it there.
But, to Roland, to Steve, and to Carol, thanks so much. Appreciate it. And breaking new still ahead tonight: a grim discovery down in Florida, a small child's remains. Could it be Caylee Anthony, the little girl who has been missing for months now? We are going to have the very latest on that.
But, up next, holes in the Blagojevich case -- the allegations pretty dramatic. The wiretap recordings certainly sound pretty damning. But prosecutors still have a lot to do. We are going to tell you what's missing when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We have all heard the shocking testimony in that federal affidavit against Governor Blagojevich, but it takes more than that to actually convict someone.
And some legal experts see real hurdles ahead for the U.S. attorney making the case, less of a slam-dunk than it might sound from all of the coverage.
And we want to go through now the potential holes in this case with our legal experts, Lisa Bloom, anchor of "In Session" on truTV, and professor Albert Alschuler of Northwestern University School of Law in Chicago.
Welcome, guys.
Lisa, I'm going to start with you here.
And the first potential hole is, for all the alleged scheming, all the discussions that were had between the governor and various people, no money actually changed hands.
LISA BLOOM, TRUTV ANCHOR: That's right. And good for you for even talking about this on NO BIAS, NO BULL, because nobody else is talking about it. The man is presumed innocent. These are allegations by one FBI agent in an affidavit.
Now, no money changed hands. No bribery took place. No deal was consummated. What we have here are discussions about potentially doing some kind of a bribery deal.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Can I bottom-line this?
BLOOM: Yes.
BROWN: There was no crime committed?
BLOOM: No. No, no, no. Solicitation is a crime, but I just want to put this in perspective, all right?
Solicitation is a crime and it's a crime based only on words. But if we're only talking about words and no acts in furtherance of the solicitation, then the context of those is very important. What is the context? We don't know at this point.
What we have are out-of-context remarks put in an affidavit. I could see the governor saying, I was laced with profanities. I was talking to my family and close friends.
BROWN: Right.
BLOOM: I was talking trash. I was kidding. I was joking. I was an idiot. But I wasn't committing a crime.
BROWN: So, maybe a strong defense.
Al, what do you think?
ALBERT ALSCHULER, PROFESSOR, NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF LAW: I think it looks pretty close to a slam-dunk. You never can be certain in the law.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But what about the case that Lisa just made?
ALSCHULER: Just read the statute. It says it's enough to scheme to deprive the people of Illinois of the intangible right to honest services. And it looks like there's pretty strong evidence...
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: ... context important, the context of the words, isn't that key, given that no consummation of any of these bribes took place?
ALSCHULER: Yes, but it doesn't look like they were kidding around. This looks like a serious discussion.
BLOOM: OK. But why wouldn't the prosecutor have waited?
Let's say somebody was going to buy that Senate seat. Wouldn't it be great to catch two bad guys, instead of just one? Wouldn't it be great to have a videotape or an audiotape of money changing hands, have a paper trail, something to back this up?
ALSCHULER: The prosecutor explained why he was speeding up the charges. If you're wiretapping somebody and he says, I'm going to kill somebody, you don't say, oh, let's wait until he does and we will have a real strong case. You jump in.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: But this is not a violent crime.
BROWN: Hold on, guys.
Let's talk about this point in particular, because he did have to put all of his cards on the table, as he said, the prosecutor here, Patrick Fitzgerald, far sooner than he wanted to. And you don't believe, Al, that that weakens the case?
ALSCHULER: Oh, I think that there were some loose ends, absolutely. And there would -- it would have been tidier to let things go on, but you also would have allowed criminal activity to go on.
BLOOM: Yes, but this is not a violent crime.
(CROSSTALK)
ALSCHULER: I think he made the right call in jumping in early.
BLOOM: Of course, if we're talking about rape or murder or violent crime, we can't allow it to happen, but we're talking about a senator potentially being seated in connection with bribery.
ALSCHULER: And you can't allow a Senate seat to be appointed.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, you sure can, because then you catch two bad guys at once, especially if you catch them on tape.
BROWN: All right.
ALSCHULER: Well, I think that untangling that mess would be almost impossible.
BROWN: OK. Let me go on to...
ALSCHULER: You want to nip that in the bud.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, if you don't have the proof, you don't have a crime either.
(CROSSTALK)
ALSCHULER: It wasn't just a Senate seat. It was legislation that was about to be signed. It was the possibility that "The Tribune" was going to downsize and fire some -- some editors.
This was -- Fitzgerald made the right call in jumping in when he did.
BROWN: All right. Let me bring up another question here. And this is the language.
I mean, Fitzgerald used remarkably strong language against the governor. I want to play you a little bit of what he said in that initial press conference. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PATRICK FITZGERALD, STATE'S ATTORNEY FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS: The most cynical behavior in all this, the most appalling, is the fact that Governor Blagojevich tried to sell the appointment to the Senate seat vacated by president-elect Obama. The conduct would make Lincoln roll over in his grave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And I know, Lisa, that you think the colorful language here, the harshness of his comments, actually may hurt him.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, first of all, it's inappropriate under Illinois ethics rules, which apply to federal prosecutors, as well as state. You can talk about the allegations. You can quote from them. You can't comment upon them. You can't say somebody is guilty.
That's what Mike Nifong, the Duke rape prosecutor, got in trouble for in part. To say that Lincoln is turning over in his grave is really inappropriate. The man is presumed innocent. He can talk about the charges. He can talk about allegations. I think that was over the line.
BROWN: OK, Al, you get the last word on this one. What do you think?
ALSCHULER: I entirely agree. I would rather the U.S. attorney didn't have these tailored-for-the-media sound bites. I do think it's unbecoming.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Yes, he's actually supposed to say the man is presumed innocent under Illinois law. If he has a press conference, he's supposed to say that. I didn't hear that in the presser.
BROWN: OK, guys. We have got to end it on that point.
I'm going to disagree with both of you, because, as a member of the media, I need the sound bites. I love it.
BLOOM: That's what we're here for.
BROWN: OK. Many thanks to Lisa Bloom and to professor Alschuler. Thanks very much for your time tonight. Appreciate it.
BLOOM: Thank you.
BROWN: Still ahead, John McCain wants to make you a deal. Find out how he is raising money and what he will do with it in tonight's "Political Daily Briefing."
Also, we have seen our colleague Anderson Cooper do some amazing things. This is a first, even for him, swimming in shark-infested waters, great white sharks, no protective cage, no protective cage, for CNN's "Planet in Peril" series.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We have breaking news tonight in Orlando, Florida.
Police are trying to determine if human remains found today are those of Caylee Anthony, who was 2 years old when she disappeared back in June. The remains were found less than half-a-mile from her grandparents' home.
Casey Anthony, Caylee's mother, was charged with killing her daughter last month.
And Randi Kaye is here with the very latest details.
And, Randi, just what can you tell us about how, where the remains were discovered today?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As you said, they were discovered about a half-mile, a third-of-a-mile or so away from the home where Caylee lived with her mom, Casey, and her grandparents.
A utility worker was working in the area. It's a very wooded area. Happened to step down and noticed a plastic bag. And apparently, when he picked up the bag, a human skull actually rolled out of the bag. And he called authorities right away.
The sheriff is saying that the skull is part of a child's remains. This area had been searched months ago, when Casey -- when Caylee first disappeared, but it was flooded. So, what was found today might have been actually under water at that time.
BROWN: And, Randi, we should mention we're looking at a live picture right now. This is outside of the family's home. You can see all the media gathered there, police officers as well.
And I know police now have another search warrant for the Anthonys' home. What might they be looking for there?
KAYE: Two very important things, one, a garbage bag or a plastic bag, because if these remains were found inside a plastic bag or maybe a garbage bag, every manufacturer has a very unique striation, as they call it. There's marks on every bag.
And so what they want to do is go back to the home with their search warrant and see if possibly there are garbage bags in that home with the same markings from the same manufacturer that would match the bag that was found at the scene. They also would look for tape, possibly, if tape was found in the bag or on the remains, look for the same thing at home.
BROWN: And we mentioned before the girl's mother, Casey, of course is in jail now. She's charged with first-degree murder. Investigators had been suspicious of her from the beginning.
Take us back a little bit and give us a sense for what tipped them off.
KAYE: They were suspicious of her because they say she's been lying to them since day one.
First of all, she did not report her daughter missing for one full month. They told -- she told authorities pretty much right away that Caylee was with a baby-sitter, that she left her in an apartment building.
They went to that apartment. They looked for the woman. The woman said she had -- she had never met Casey or Caylee Anthony. And the apartment it turns out had been vacant for a very long time. So she wasn't left there.
Casey also took them to Universal Studios where she said she had worked and told employees that her daughter was missing. It turns out she was no longer employed there, and one of the employees whose name she had given to authorities was never an employee there either.
Also, she said she got a cell phone call during the month that Caylee was missing from someone who put Caylee on the phone with her, and it turns out that there is no record of that call at all.
And the trunk test really is most critical here. It's a test that they did of the air quality in the trunk at a place called the Body Farm in Tennessee. And they found proof of decomposition in the trunk and also chloroform. And then now, authorities have also determined that Casey at home had been searching Web sites about chloroform and also about missing children.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: So any sense for how long before we know whether these remains are hers?
KAYE: Right now, we know that the FBI is making this case a top priority. And it could be days. They will be working through the weekend. It could be days, but it also could be weeks. It all depends on how good of a sample they can get of the DNA.
BROWN: All right. Randi Kaye for us tonight with all those details. Randi, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
We're going to move on now. Honestly is the best policy. It's one of those phrases we all say, but our "Bull's-Eye" tonight goes to a woman who gave a heck of a lot more than lip service to that. All of it here today talking about what this woman did. We will tell you about that when we come back.
Plus, Ron Howard, the award-winning film director. He's going to be with us. He has a lot to say about politicians, secret tape recordings full of expletives. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Former general and secretary of state, Colin Powell, we haven't heard a lot from him about challenges facing the new administration until now. Fareed Zakaria of our Sunday program, "GPS," asked Powell about all of that and about the future of the Republican Party. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, "GPS": What do you think is going to happen to the Republican Party? You sounded concerned then and you always have been concerned about certain aspects of your party. Do you think it's moving in the right direction?
COLIN POWELL, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: We don't know yet. I don't know yet. I think that in the latter months of the campaign, the party moved further to the right. Governor Palin, to some extent, pushed the party more to the right. And I think she had something of a polarizing effect when she talked about small-town values are good.
Well, most of us don't live in mall towns. And I was raised in the South Bronx and there's nothing wrong with my value system from the South Bronx. And when they came to Virginia and said, you know, the southern part of Virginia is good but the northern part of Virginia is bad, the only problem with that is there are more votes in the northern part of Virginia than there are in the southern part of Virginia. So that doesn't work. But it was that attempt on the part of the party to use polarization for political advantage that I think backfired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now you can see the rest of that exclusive and wide- ranging interview with Colin Powell this Sunday, 1:00 p.m. Eastern on "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS."
Still ahead, up close and personal with sharks. Our Anderson Cooper will be here to preview tonight's CNN "Planet in Peril: Battle Lines."
Plus, our "Political Daily Briefing." Our holiday elf, Dana Milbank, does his best impression of the home shopping network.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA MILBANK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Palling around with terrorist in your living room this weekend? You want to entertain them in style with our campaign's executive chairs, which we're practically giving away for $18 apiece.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Here's a going out of business sale. We go bargain hunting at McCain-Palin headquarters. That is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We are just about 20 minutes away now from the premier of "Planet in Peril: Battle Lines." CNN reporters went to the ends of the earth to see the flash points in the struggle to preserve our environment. The stories they brought back are truly amazing. But I got to say absolutely nothing tops this. Anderson Cooper swimming with sharks. Deadly great white sharks without a cage. I'm going to let him explain that one.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. You know, sharks species around the world are getting slaughtered, decimated tens of millions of sharks every year getting killed largely for their dorsal fins that make shark fins soup. No one really cares about it because everyone is so afraid of sharks.
So we wanted to kind of take a look at sharks beyond -- you know, getting beyond the fear and actually see them in their natural habitat and there's so much we don't know about great, white sharks. We got a rare opportunity to dive with a guy named Mike Rutzen who's one of the few people on the planet who actually free dives with great white sharks. And so, take a look at what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): The water is filled with chum --fish parts and blood. A number of sharks are already circling the boat. So it's time to go.
To get to the bottom, I climb into a cage which is lowered about 20 feet to the ocean floor. Mike is already there scouting for any sharks. Then he signals for me to swim out.
Almost immediately, my weight belt falls off. Struggling with that is the last thing you want to be doing around great whites. The current is really strong, and Mike has me hold on to a rock to stay in place. Visibility is low. But then suddenly, the sharks come into view.
It's clear they see us, but they're keeping their distance gliding by slowly, gracefully.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So I have but one follow-up question here, which is what exactly were you smoking before you decided to do this?
COOPER: That's funny. Right before I went in to the water, the guy said -- you know, I asked this guy for advice because he's an expert. You know, how do you -- is there any advice you have on how to prevent getting eaten?
And he said, project confidence. So I'm not sure how you project confidence through scuba equipment. I'm still trying to figure out how my weight belt fell off. Clearly, I --
BROWN: Things are going well.
COOPER: I'm not a very good diver. Yes. Really, the rule (ph) and the last thing you want to be doing is struggling with the weight belt because that's the other advice I got which is, you know, don't make any sudden movements. Don't look like you're struggling (INAUDIBLE) (CROSSTALK)
BROWN: So you just -- what are you supposed to do? Just stay very calm.
COOPER: Just stay very calm, project confidence, breathe very slowly. And when the sharks actually come by, you're supposed to hold your breath, which goes against most scuba rules. But they don't like the air bubbles. Unfortunately, my heart was pounding so fast, I could not hold my breath. So I actually was exhaling more air than normal, which the sharks do not like.
BROWN: I can't wait to see this. But the whole thing is going to be amazing, the premier tonight. Give us a sense for what we're going to see overall.
COOPER: You know, this is really a year-long investigation. It's a year-long journey. You know, nearly ten countries I think. We went to four different continents. A huge variety of animal life you're going to see. Guerrilla warfare, you're going to see as well.
We're really looking at the natural resources that we have now that are dwindling fast. And the idea is how do we protect what we still have through conservation or innovation or technology? But our population is going to be growing by some 50 percent over the next 40 years and already we're seeing increased conflicts and increased disease and we investigate a lot of that tonight.
BROWN: All right. We will be watching, of course. "Planet in Peril," the premier starting in just a few minutes.
Anderson Cooper, thanks.
COOPER: Get your popcorn.
BROWN: All righty (ph).
And coming up, a bag of cash, nobody around. Do you keep the money? What if it's almost $100,000? Well, it actually happened to this woman. She's going to tell you what she did.
And if you've already concluded the Illinois governor is the ultimate corrupt politician, I have two words for you. Richard Nixon. A new movie gets inside his head. We'll talk with director Ron Howard about politicians and secret tapes in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Coming up, "NO BIAS, NO BULL" with director Ron Howard. His latest movie is pretty darn close to the latest political news, frankly.
But first, Randi Kaye back with tonight's "Briefing" -- Randi.
KAYE: How are you, Campbell? We have this just in right now. Senate leaders have made a tentative deal on an auto bailout plan. The deal was worked out just minutes ago on Capitol Hill after hours of negotiations. Some Republican senators still say the $14 billion package will not protect taxpayers or do anything to help GM, Ford, and Chrysler survive.
A huge blow tonight to employees of Bank of America. The bank plans to cut as many as 35,000 jobs over the next three years due to the bad economy and the pending takeover of Merrill Lynch.
Just two weeks before Christmas, KB Toys filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy today.
Tonight, CNN has exclusive video of Monday's military jet crash in a San Diego neighborhood. A college student captured these dramatic pictures of the inferno moments after the F-18 went down killing four people. A congressman says investigators believe that the pilot who survived could not control the jet after both engines failed.
The man in charge of border security was deceived when illegal immigrants were hired to clean his home. That's what the Department of Homeland Security says about a company hired by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and his wife. The owner says he gave the Secret Service all the required background information on his workers.
And the big easy woke up to a very big surprise this morning. Snow in New Orleans. That hasn't happened in four years. Flakes have also been falling in Texas where they traded in their cowboy boots for, believe it or not, some ice skates. Skating in Texas.
BROWN: How fun. When you never get it, it's fun.
KAYE: Absolutely. For a day maybe.
BROWN: Randi Kaye for us tonight. Randi, thanks again.
We have talked a lot this week about a man who may have tried in or may have to tried to cash in on the public's trust. Well, tonight, our "Bull's-Eye" goes to a grandmother of 12 who gave up the chance to strike it rich when nobody was watching.
Billy Watts went into the lady's room at a Cracker Barrel restaurant down in Tennessee and saw a bag someone had left on a hook. Inside was $97,000 in cash. For a moment, she thought about keeping it. But only for a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILLY WATTS, FOUND BAG WITH $97,000 CASH: If you don't do the right thing, I mean, you're going to be judged by -- and as old as I am, you know, I have to count for everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So what did Billy Watts do? She left her home phone number at the restaurant. Turns out the money belongs to an elderly woman who was moving to Florida who also had inside that sack the one and only photo of her daughter and granddaughter who both have died. She got back the money and the photo. And when she tried to offer Watts a reward, Watts turned it down.
For her extraordinary honesty, we give Billy Watts our "Bull's- Eye" tonight.
We are just minutes away now, as we said, from CNN's premier of "Planet in Peril." Anderson Cooper, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Lisa Ling traveled the world, above and below, to show you what's really happening to life on earth.
But up next, Ron Howard and my "NO BIAS, NO BULL" interview. For his new film, the director had to learn everything he could about Richard Nixon. So you can imagine the connections he may make to the corruption scandal swirling around the Illinois governor. He's up next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: And those who feel like they want to sneakily and wear, you know, taping devices, I would remind them that it kind of smells like Nixon in Watergate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, Rod Blagojevich, not the first politician to be caught on tape discussing illegal acts. As the governor said, President Richard Nixon also committed some choice words to audiotape, which brings us to director Ron Howard. His new film "Frost/Nixon" covers another time when political manipulation, corruption, double dealing were all over the news and talk show host David Frost snagged an exclusive interview with the disgraced Richard Nixon.
Earlier today, we should mention, "Frost/Nixon" was nominated for a Golden Globe award for Best Drama. And Ron Howard got a Best Director nomination. Congratulations.
RON HOWARD, DIRECTOR, "FROST/NIXON": Thank you. And three others for Frank Langella, and the screenplay, Peter Morgan.
BROWN: Yes, of course.
HOWARD: And also the music, Hans Zimmer.
BROWN: So five total. That's huge.
HOWARD: Yes. It was a big day for us.
BROWN: Congrats.
HOWARD: Thank you. Thank you. BROWN: It's great to have you here. And let me just say I would never compare Richard Nixon to Governor Blagojevich by any means. Different men, different times. But isn't it a little bit striking to you that you're out promoting this movie and the similarities just in the times and what's in the news and what we're talking about?
HOWARD: Well, I think, look, that's the thing that -- and, look, "Frost/Nixon" is, you know, it's not a movie on a soap box. It's, you know, it makes its points, but, you know, through the drama and the entertainment value of the story.
But, you know, one of the themes is that we need that kind of transparency. And in a democracy, you know, there's a lot of flexibility, a lot of latitude, and those are complicated leadership roles. But you cannot -- you cannot begin to accept abuses of power as some sort of given.
BROWN: Yet you became, I guess, a bit of a Nixon scholar in putting this movie together. I mean, has he become the gold standard, I guess, by which every -- you know, for corruption and political scandal by which every politician is now measured?
HOWARD: Well, you know, Peter Morgan wrote a line that -- where it says, you know, that he's best known because every scandal is now, you know, is --
BROWN: Ends in gate, I remember.
HOWARD: ...ends in gate. But, you know -- no, look, I was really, you know, had to learn everything I could about the event of these interviews. And it's -- you know, it's not a Richard Nixon biopic. It's not comprehensive as it relates to his life, or even Watergate. But it does go behind the scenes of this interview.
And I think one of the reasons that the movie surprises people in very gratifying ways is because you just had no idea the psycho-drama and the pressure and the suspense that was building up behind the scenes was something as important to each of these guys as, you know, these interviews.
BROWN: And I want people to see this. Because let me tell you I saw the film, I loved it.
HOWARD: Thank you.
BROWN: I thought it was amazing. And we want to show people a little clip. And this is what Ron is talking about. This is a key moment, Nixon and Frost going at it. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY UNIVERSAL PICTURES)
FRANK LANGELLA, PLAYING RICHARD NIXON: Look, when you're in office, you've got to do a lot of things sometimes that are not always in the strictest sense of the law legal. But you'll do them because they're in the greater interest of the nation. MICHAEL SHEEN, PLAYING DAVID FROST: But wait. Just so I understand correctly, are you really saying that in certain situations, the president can decide whether it's in the best interest of the nation and then do something illegal?
LANGELLA: I'm saying that when the president does it, that means it's not illegal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: You said it yourself before I showed that clip -- the tension and the drama. And I think that's what got me.
I mean, this is a very small part of the overall narrative of what was happening at the time. These little interviews. But you're -- I was holding my breath. You're on the edge of your seat. How do create that?
HOWARD: People find it very suspenseful and part of it is that you begin to realize that on a personal level, there is so much at stake. And that, of course, these guys are not Frost and Nixon. They're not just -- they're not symbols. They're not icons. They're not mono.
You know, they're very complicated characters and very human. And, you know, as you start to delve deeper and deeper into, you know, what's making them tick, you do start to care more. And you also start to care about the Kevin Bacons and Sam Rockwells.
BROWN: Who are the players, the people around them.
HOWARD: Oliver Platt, the people who have also so much invested in the outcome of these on a personal level in addition to what they need historically.
BROWN: You talk about humanizing them in a way because of what you do with this film. And Frank Langella, whose an amazing actor...
HOWARD: Yes.
BROWN: ... and did deliver an incredible performance, but he makes Nixon to be, I felt, a very sympathetic character in many ways.
HOWARD: Well, I hope empathetic, you know.
BROWN: OK.
HOWARD: Because it's not meant to be an apology for Richard Nixon and that's not what Frank Langella would want either.
BROWN: No, but it tried humanizing him in a way that you rarely see, I think.
HOWARD: I think that's what dramatists are supposed to do. And look, the amazing thing about what Frank Langella creates is that there's, you know, there's not anything in him that is remotely like Richard Nixon. You know, not his personality, not his physicality, nothing. And yet, he still got at the center of this guy and really built the character, you know, from the inside out, learning so much about Richard Nixon and, you know, and sort of revealing what he's discovered on a really soulful level to audiences. And I think Michael Sheen did the same thing through David Frost.
BROWN: Yes. I can't champion this movie enough. I thought it was fantastic.
HOWARD: Well, that's wonderful. Campbell, thanks.
BROWN: And many congratulations to you and good luck with all of the awards that I'm sure you're going to win.
HOWARD: Thank you.
BROWN: I'm absolutely sure of it.
HOWARD: Thank you so much.
BROWN: Ron Howard, great to have you here. Appreciate it.
HOWARD: Great to talk to you.
BROWN: And coming up right after "NO BIAS, NO BULL," an extraordinary program. CNN's "Planet in Peril: Battle Lines." You're not going to want to miss Anderson Cooper diving with sharks.
And what do you get when a presidential candidate loses bargains? Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA MILBANK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The next time Putin rears it head and enters your airspace, catch him red-handed with this McCain campaign security monitor priced to move at $720.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Dana Milbank is going to take us to McCain headquarters where you can get a great deal. That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Time for the "PDB," our "Political Daily Briefing." Our regular look at the strange and unusual in the political world. And our Dana Milbank is in Washington tonight with bargains, bargains, bargains.
And Dana, we start with the kind of politics for sale that is well within the law, right?
MILBANK: Oh, sure. My "Washington Post" colleague, Mary Ann Akers, got a notice from the McCain campaign headquarters announcing a rummage sale of office equipment. So the "PDB" decided to help them out with a public service announcement. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MILBANK: My friends, do I have a deal for you. Stop what you're doing and hurry on down to McCain headquarters for our going out of business sale. Everything must go.
That special fellow on your list, whether he's Joe six-pack or Joe the plumber needs a cup of Joe this time of year. So fill him up with this handsome 55-cup steel coffee urn. Yours for just $77.
Palling around with terrorists in your living room this weekend? You'll want to entertain them in style with our campaign's executive chairs, which we're practically giving away for $18 apiece.
The next time Putin rears his head and enters your airspace, catch him red-handed with this McCain campaign security monitor priced to move at $720.
Do you have so many houses you can't count them all? Keep track of your land on a pre-owned Dell latitude laptop D820. Just $570. In this blow-out sale, everything must go!
Now, everybody likes straight talk. But now you can hear it more clearly on this BlackBerry 8700C for a no price of just $30.
Or maybe you've just lost a big election and you just want to put your feet up. Well, shop no further. You'll recover in comfort on our campaign sofa, an unbelievable $256 value while watching our almost-new high definition TV. Yours for a special no earmark price of $103.80.
The McCain campaign. With prices so low, you'll think you just got a tax cut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Dana, your talents really are limitless, aren't they? OK.
Speaking of slashing prices, I'm going to make you do a little bit of serious political news here as well.
Hillary Clinton today agreed to take a pay cut. And this is important. Explain why and what happened.
MILBANK: Well, as we've discussed, there is this little-known clause in the constitution that blocks her from being secretary of state because Congress increased the pay for the job while she was in office. But problem solved. Congress has rescinded the pay cut for Clinton. But don't weep for her. She lost 4,700 bucks, but I calculate that to be about 0.01 percent of her net worth.
BROWN: All right. We've got to end it there tonight. We've run out of time, Dana. I'm sorry. But I know you have many more things in your Santa's pouch or something for tomorrow night.
MILBANK: Back with you tomorrow.
BROWN: All right. See you then.
MILBANK: Thanks.
BROWN: Dana Milbank, thanks.
And a short clarification, earlier we had reported that the Senate has a deal on the auto bailout. In fact, there is no deal yet. They are still discussing it. So we will update you when we have more information.
That does it for us tonight. Stay right there.
"Planet in Peril: Battle Lines" starting right now.
