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American Morning
Pressure Mounts for Blagojevich to Resign; The Players in Obama's Senate Seat; Bringing Layaway Plan Back; President-elect Obama Plans to Use Middle Name on Inauguration Day; The Psychology Behind the Blagojevich Scandal
Aired December 11, 2008 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): New fallout in the pay to play scandal. Barack Obama's answers raising new questions.
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I had no contact with the governor or his office.
CHETRY: As a disgraced governor goes back to work.
Plus, the name he didn't call himself on the campaign trail.
OBAMA: I got my middle name from somebody who obviously didn't think I'd ever run for president.
CHETRY: Now Barack Hussein Obama and proud of it.
IMAN FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, FOUNDER, CORDOBA INITIATIVE: The son of a Muslim. The whole narrative of Obama is what gives us hope.
CHETRY: How the president-elect is trying to reboot America's image from day one on this AMERICAN MORNING.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: And welcome. Glad you're with us on this Thursday, December 11th. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you. I'm John Roberts.
Well, we begin this morning with the bailout deal for Detroit automakers. $14 billion emergency loan package easily passed the House last night. But there is apparently a speed bump ahead in the Senate where Republican opposition could stall the bill. The bailout plan creates the so-called car czar who would force the auto industry to come up with long-term restructuring plans by the end of March.
Breaking overnight, Defense Secretary Robert Gates says the Pentagon is working to get more combat brigades into Afghanistan. Gates arrived in Kandahar overnight to meet with military leaders.
Commanders have called for up to 20,000 more U.S. troops. Gates expects to have three brigades in place by the summer. That will be about 14,000 to 15,000 troops. Says he won't have to cut troop levels in Iraq to do it either.
A six-day protest by laid off workers at a Chicago window factory is over. Thanks to a $1.75 million deal between the company, the union and the Bank of America. The sit-in began after Republic Windows and Doors gave employees just three days notice that the plant was closing. Each worker will get eight weeks severance pay, accrued vacation pay, as well as two months paid health care.
CHETRY: Well, this morning there is mounting pressure for Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich to resign following his arrest on federal corruption charges. All 50 senators and the president-elect are calling on Blagojevich to step down immediately, but the embattled governor was back at work yesterday just a day after prosecutors said that they have him on wiretap trying to sell Barack Obama's vacant Senate seat to the highest bidder.
Blagojevich denies any wrongdoing, but the growing scandal has tainted others in Illinois politicians, including Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr., who is interested in Obama's Senate seat and Jackson denying any involvement in a corruption scheme to secure that appointment. But could this criminal complaint also hurt the president-elect?
CNN's Elaine Quijano is live in Chicago with the newest developments this morning -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Kiran. Well, as you know, there are no allegations against the president-elect in that federal complaint. But what the situation has done is raise a lot of questions for the Obama team.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO (voice-over): Just weeks away from when he takes the oath of office, President-elect Barack Obama urged embattled Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich to step down. During this presidential transition, the federal corruption allegations against Blagojevich including trying to sell Obama's vacated Senate seat have overshadowed the president-elect's agenda.
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I had no contact with the governor or his office, and so we were not -- I was not aware of what was happening.
QUIJANO: And U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald has made it a point to say there are no allegations of wrongdoing against Obama. Yet the incoming president's answer that he alone was not aware of what was happening leaves open the question. Did any of his aides have conversations with the governor or his office?
JOHN DICKERSON, "SLATE" MAGAZINE: Obama's answer wasn't very fulfilling, but he's in a bit of a fix. He's trying to figure out how to talk like a president which often means saying nothing at all, and how to meet the goals that he set for himself in his own campaign for transparency and for candor.
(END VIDEOTAPE) QUIJANO: Now today, we may see the president-elect try to put some questions to rest. Barack Obama is scheduled to hold a news conference here in Chicago later today.
Now the stated topic is health care. He will formally announce Tom Daschle as his choice for health and human services secretary but you can be sure, Kiran, he will be facing a barrage of questions about the Blagojevich situation -- Kiran.
CHETRY: And what do we know about whether or not he's going to have a little bit more candor, come clean a little bit more about what anybody around him, any of his aides, whether they had any contact with Blagojevich regarding the Senate seat?
QUIJANO: You know, we don't know. That is a very good question, the question everybody is asking. Certainly it would seem unlikely that he would hold a news conference and not be able to say anything more beyond I can't comment because there's an ongoing investigation. That certainly would not sit well. That is a little bit of what we heard, as you know, on Tuesday. But whether or not he more fully answers some of these questions, pretty much an open question right now, Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. Elaine Quijano for us in Chicago. Thanks.
ROBERTS: We have heard a lot about Barack Obama's vacated Senate seat and now we are hearing who could have been in play for it. While the affidavit does not specifically name the six prospective candidates discussed by Governor Blagojevich, new details are emerging about number five. That's Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr.
Our Drew Griffin has more for us now from Chicago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There he is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Governor.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE UNIT CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Call it business unusual for the Illinois governor now ducking media staked out at his home and racing past cameras as he was driven to his Chicago office. One day after his arrest and amid calls from every corner of the state for his resignation, the governor was silent.
Not so silent, Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr., who suddenly found himself defending his quest to fill the U.S. Senate seat Democrat Governor Blagojevich was allegedly trying to sell.
REP. JESSE JACKSON JR. (D), ILLINOIS: I reject and denounce "pay to play" politics and have no involvement whatsoever in any wrongdoing. GRIFFIN: A law enforcement source with detailed knowledge of the investigation confirms to CNN that Jackson, a Democrat, is the Senate candidate number five talked about in the federal complaint against Governor Blagojevich. On page 72 of the federal complaint, Blagojevich allegedly describes a deal being cooked up by an associate of candidate number five.
"We were approached 'pay to play' that, you know, he'd raise me 500 grand. An emissary came. Then the other guy would raise a million if I made him a senator."
It's a claim Jackson categorically denies.
JACKSON: I never sent a message or an emissary to the governor.
GRIFFIN: So who are the other possible candidates one through six Governor Blagojevich was considering? Number one is believed to be close Obama confidante, Valerie Jarrett, who has since been named to Barack Obama's White House staff.
Number two, possibly Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan. Madigan yesterday called for Blagojevich's resignation.
Number three, Democrat Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky says it might have been her and says she must not have been a serious candidate since the governor didn't ask her for anything.
Number four is described as a deputy governor. Blagojevich had three deputies until one of them, Bob Greenlee resigned. Greenlee would not confirm to the "Associated Press" if he was the candidate.
Number five is Jesse Jackson Jr. And number six, the FBI complaint calls a wealthy man from Illinois who wants the seat and would pay for it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: But all the focus right now is on candidate number five and that is because the charging paper so explicitly lay out this deal of "pay to play" for the U.S. Senate seat. Congressman Jackson has hired an attorney, he says, to help him fully cooperate with the U.S. attorney's investigation.
John and Kiran, back to you.
CHETRY: Drew Griffin, thanks.
Now a look at some of the other stories new this morning. He's one of the Republican Party's hottest and youngest stars, but Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal says he has no interest in running for president in 2012.
The 37-year-old Jindal says that he plans to seek a second term as governor instead. Jindal says that everyone should be focused on supporting President-elect Barack Obama right now, not campaigning for president. Well, many Americans are choosing non-traditional ways to stay healthy. New Federal Survey found 38 percent of adults and nearly 12 percent of children use alternative forms of medicine. The most commonly used are either dietary or herbal supplements.
And some good news for those flying during this holiday season. More domestic flights arriving on time. According to government data, 86 percent on time in October. That's up from around 78 percent a year ago.
Salt Lake City International Airport has the best record and also New Jersey's Newark Liberty has the worst. The transportation department says that lower demand and fewer flights have caused a drop in delays -- John.
ROBERTS: Actually arrived early on the last three flights that I took. It was nothing -- nothing short of a minor miracle.
CHETRY: Knock on wood.
ROBERTS: Amazing.
Well, buy now get later. After a 20-year hiatus, one major retailer is bringing back its layaway program. We'll tell you how it's helping holiday shoppers to stay out of debt.
Eight and a half minutes now after the hour.
His middle name was a hot topic for critics during the campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: And I got my middle name from somebody who obviously didn't think I'd ever run for president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Why the president-elect wants his whole name used when he's sworn in.
You're watching the "Most News in the Morning."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning." These are tough times indeed and retailers are doing whatever they can to attract holiday shoppers offering 50 percent, free shipping, even buy one get one free. Some car dealerships were offering that.
And one of the latest shopping trends is -- you're ready for this -- everything old is new again, layaway. That's right. Layaway is back.
And CNN's Susan Roesgen takes a look at a very old idea that is suddenly all the rage.
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When you think about it, John and Kiran, this will be a whole generation of shoppers who don't have a clue what layaway means. It's been 20 years since Sears had a layaway plan, but this could be a good time to bring it back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROESGEN (voice-over): If you're too young to remember, layaways allow shoppers to put a hold on things they want to buy making payments until they're paid off. Sears ended its layaway program in 1989 when credit card use was on the rise. Now, it's tightening credit and higher fees. Credit card use is going down. So Sears resurrected layaways just last month.
KIM SCHAEFFER, SEARS ASST. MANAGER: It doesn't make any difference, you know, what economic background they come from. Everybody is using it. Just as the thing you don't have to max out your credit cards to get the gifts that you want.
ROESGEN: A customer who's thinking about buying on layaway is Bruce Dix. We found him in the toy department.
BRICE DIX, SEARS SHOPPER: Right now the budget. You know, I have three kids and you just have to plan things out more for them nowadays.
ROESGEN: Sears won't say how many customers are buying on layaway except that the response has been overwhelming. And business experts who track trends on Google say the number of searches for the term layaway has recently gone way up. But the nation's two biggest retailers, Wal-Mart and Target, don't have layaway plans and say they don't plan to start. And, of course, there are still old-fashioned shoppers who appreciate the idea of layaways but won't do it themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As long as it stimulates the economy, I'm all for it. So --
ROESGEN: Are you going to do it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not layaway. Pay everything cash.
ROESGEN: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got that from my dad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROESGEN: Bringing layaway back is an experiment for Sears. They only plan to do it through Christmas, but they say if it brings enough customers back they may decide to do it permanently or at least until the economy recovers -- John and Kiran.
ROBERTS: Susan Roesgen this morning. Did you ever buy anything on layaway?
CHETRY: No.
ROBERTS: Never?
CHETRY: Never have.
ROBERTS: I did when I was a kid. Maybe a couple of days.
CHETRY: When I was younger it was just whatever I had. If I had cash, I bought it.
ROBERTS: It was always fun to have something on layaway at the local department store.
CHETRY: Really?
ROBERTS: Oh, yes.
CHETRY: That's funny.
ROBERTS: I'm going to get that one of these days, not just right now.
CHETRY: Well, you know, you better afford it. Everyone is still --
ROBERTS: Coke was a nickel back then too.
CHETRY: Great. It's all right. It's all right.
Well, Barack Obama plans to use his full name Barack Hussein Obama when he takes the oath of office next month. It's nothing unusual, but we'll tell you why he's hoping that it sends a larger message to the world.
Also, Hussein may not be one of the most popular baby names of 2008. No offense to Art (ph) Hussein right here on the show. But you may be surprised that what boy and girl names are on top. We'll run it down for you.
It's 15 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barack Hussein Obama, Barack Hussein Obama, Barack Hussein Obama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Radio host Bill Cunningham creating some controversy during the presidential campaign with his repeated reference to Barack Obama's middle name. Obama says he plans to deliver a major speech in an Islamic capital as part of his administration's effort to repair America's relations with the Muslim world. And as CNN's Zain Verjee tells us, that is one reason why Obama wants his full name to be heard loud and clear on Inauguration Day.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: John, Kiran, the president-elect wants to rebuild bridges with the Muslim world. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): Barack Hussein Obama will use his full name when he takes the oath of office on January the 20th. The president-elect told the "Chicago Tribune" newspaper, "I think tradition is they use all three names, and I will follow the tradition," he said. "I'm not trying to make a statement one way or another. I'll do what everybody else does." His middle name, Hussein, a focus during the campaign.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't trust Obama. I have read about him and he's not -- he's not -- he's an Arab
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: No, ma'am. No, ma'am.
VERJEE: Former Secretary of State Colin Powell objected saying Obama is not a Muslim and so what if he was?
COLIN POWELL, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: And then to sort of throw in this little Muslim connection, yes, he's a Muslim and my God, he's a terrorist. And it was taking root. That kind of negativity troubled me.
VERJEE: Obama himself joked about it.
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: And I got my middle name from somebody who obviously didn't think I'd ever run for president.
VERJEE: Obama's father was a Muslim and that's where he got his middle name.
IMAN FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, FOUNDER, CORDOBA INITIATIVE: The son of a Muslim are all -- the whole narrative of Obama put together is what gives us hope.
VERJEE: The president-elect is a Christian but says he wants to reach out to the Muslim world and reboot America's image there. Analysts say the world's 1.3 billion Muslims want reassurance that the U.S.-led war on terror is not a war on Islam. Obama's victory already has sent a message.
EDWARD DJEREJIAN, DIRECTOR, BAKER INSTITUTE: The photo of President Bush and President-elect Obama at the White House did volumes in the broader Middle East and throughout the world to show what America is.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Some experts say it really boils down to one thing, solving the Israeli Palestinian issue that's the core issue for the Arab and Muslim world -- John, Kiran.
CHETRY: Zain Verjee for us. Thanks.
Well, you might want to choose wisely when you pick a name for your child just in case he or she ever runs for president. The top baby names for 2008 are out, and according to the Baby Center, the top names for girls this year, Emma, at number one, followed by Sofia, Madison, Isabella and Olivia.
And for the boys, Aiden is at the top, followed by Jayden...
ROBERTS: Aiden, Jayden.
CHETRY: ... Ethan, Jacob and Caden. How about that?
ROBERTS: Aiden? What was that?
Aiden, Jayden, Cayden?
CHETRY: Aiden, Jayden, Caden. Ethan and Jacob. How about it?
ROBERTS: Wow.
CHETRY: Wow. Got a lot of those in the playgroups for my little daughter.
ROBERTS: I love the name Madison.
CHETRY: It's very nice.
ROBERTS: I named my dog Madison.
CHETRY: My friend's dog is Madison as well.
ROBERTS: Dakota is another great name, too. And that's Melanie Griffith's child, right?
CHETRY: Yes.
ROBERTS: Put that one back.
CHETRY: And Dakota Fanning.
ROBERTS: Yes. And a great song by OAR band that I really love.
CHETRY: Now I know what to get you for Christmas.
ROBERTS: No, I already got that. Give me something else.
Powerful man who makes stupid mistakes. Not just me we're talking about here.
Coming up on the "Most News in the Morning," the psychology behind the scandal and why Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich didn't think that he would ever get caught.
The United States pushing for international action to fight pirates who attacked dozens of ships off of Somalia's lawless coast. We are live in the region with reaction.
Twenty-one minutes now after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO")
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": It was so blatant how he was selling the seat. Did you see the footage? It was so blatant. Take a look.
GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: We have a Senate seat up for sale, formerly Barack Obama's. Obama, Obama, Obama.
Now raise your hands. (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: All right. You got to hand it to Jay Leno for that one. It was pretty funny.
Governor Rod Blagojevich isn't the first politician to try to get away with something criminal. President Bill Clinton, New York Governor Eliot Spitzer, Alaska Senator Ted Stevens, and we could go on and on. A sad reality I guess. And it's just a lot of seemingly good men gone bad while in power.
Blagojevich's arrogance was especially blatant when he challenged the people investigating him just the day before he was taken into custody. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: I don't believe there's any cloud that hangs over me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, getting back to that
BLAGOJEVICH: I think there's a lot of sunshine hanging over me. I would remind them that it kind of smells like Nixon and Watergate. But I don't care whether you take me privately or publicly, I can tell you that whatever I say is always lawful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: So what was Blagojevich thinking? To help us go inside the mind of a politician and explore the psychology behind the scandal, I'm joined now by clinical psychologist Jeff Gardere.
Thanks for so much for being with us.
JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It's my pleasure, Kiran.
CHETRY: It's good to see you. So, he knew he was under this close scrutiny.
GARDERE: Yes.
CHETRY: He even said so himself, yet he spoke openly and brazenly about it. Why would he risk it if you were looking into, you know, his mind, if you could? GARDERE: Well, I think this is someone who has a lot of grandiosity, certainly somewhat of a narcissistic personality. Some people have even gone as far as to say he's a sociopath.
Mike Jacobs, a Democratic senator said, "This guy is my friend but I think he's lost touch with reality." And I think what happens with these people who have a great amount of power is they stop looking at consequences or stop thinking about consequences. So when we go back to your question, what was he thinking? I don't think he was thinking. I think he was internalizing so many things where he just would not get into the reality feedback that loop that tells you hey, wait a minute what you're doing is illegal or it's wrong or it's unethical. This is a guy who retreated from that.
CHETRY: This is the -- this is the interesting dichotomy in the situation, because you say that it's somebody who perhaps, you know, has lost touch with reality or wasn't thinking about consequences. But he was moving toward a goal. He wanted a future. This wasn't, you know, he wasn't sort of driving himself off a cliff politically. He wanted something in exchange.
GARDERE: That's right.
CHETRY: So how did he not think that he was going to perhaps have to pay a price?
GARDERE: I think sometimes when you have these "A" personalities who may have also some sociopathic qualities, the issue for them becomes, how do I get to the goal but not look at anything to my left, to my right, or behind me or in front of me. After all, this was a person who came into power after the previous governor, George Ryan, had been indicted and actually ended up doing time.
So the signs were there. The roadblocks were there. An he just completely ignored them because, as you said, he wanted to get that goal by any means necessary and as we know sometimes politics support people in this kind of blinding ambition, even though it may be sociopathic, even though it may be wrong.
CHETRY: And the thing is, and we go down this laundry list of just in the recent -- in our recent memory we have Eliot Spitzer, the governor of New York, Ted Stevens out of Alaska. We have Bob Ney from Ohio. We have Charles Rangel here in New York under, you know, some cloud of suspicion with an ethics investigation.
GARDERE: That's right.
CHETRY: Is it -- does politics attract people who maybe are more likely to take these types of risks and to have bad behavior or does the very nature of the political machine turn good people bad?
GARDERE: Well, I think it's perhaps a combination of both. You have someone who has that blinding ambition who, in fact, may be a bit of that personality disorder and they get into an environment that supports that, that masks it, that hides it, that in some ways reinforces it. So you do have many people who have great power and are able to balance that even though the needs of the office may make them do some kind of borderline things. And then you have those people who perhaps have had that sociopathic personality, who now are in this environment, the wrong environment, where at some point they actually crash and burn. And this is what we may be seeing with this particular governor.
CHETRY: And certainly not to paint all politicians, there's a lot of great people out there that are in public service. But, you know, historically we've looked at these people as heroes or, you know, mentors or people that we can look up to.
GARDERE: Sure.
CHETRY: What message does it send when we see so many high-profile cases of people saying one thing publicly and doing very bad things behind-the-scenes?
GARDERE: Well, I think what it does is it takes away from their message. We say if you talk the talk, you better walk the walk. And I think those politicians who've been able to set an example, be role models are the ones who are much more popular, the ones who have been much more successful.
So, it is very hard for the American public to be able to decide for the messages but actually to also choose who are the true leaders who mean what it is that they say and therefore that we can follow. It really is a very, very tough act, a balancing act.
CHETRY: Right. And consequently, do we expect less from our leaders?
GARDERE: I think these days we've expected a lot less especially with this economic crisis. We see what has happened with the subprime loans. And people who are much, much more greedy than most and who didn't care what the consequences were for anyone, though they're just trying to enrich themselves, politicians who may have gone along with the deregulation.
So psychologically, I think that's why we have this crisis in consumer confidence where people don't believe in the financial systems. They don't believe in the political system. And at this point, people are saying we need a real leader and I think that's why a lot of people have followed Obama. Let's hope he's able to keep himself clean through all of this.
CHETRY: Absolutely. Jeff Gardere, clinical psychologist, great to talk to you.
GARDERE: It's great to see you, Kiran.
CHETRY: John.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up on the half hour now. Breaking news overnight. Nuclear talks with North Korea falling apart. Pyongyang refusing to endorse a plan to verify its nuclear activities. North Korea will not allow inspectors to take samples from its main nuclear complex at Yongbyon -- a critical step in checking whether it has been truthful in the accounting of its nuclear programs.
The nation's top immigration official may need to start immigration reform right at his own house. The "Washington Post" reports a cleaning company that worked in Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff's home was using illegal workers. The Secret Service screened the company's employees but said that it's screened for criminal records not green cards. The owner of the cleaning company faces more than $22,000 in fines.
The United Nations is honoring slain Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. Bhutto's son accepted the United Nation's prize in the field of human rights in New York last night. He says his mother did everything humanly possible to ensure democracy and human rights in Pakistan. Benazir Bhutto was assassinated a year ago this month.
Well, Defense Secretary Robert Gates says more U.S. troops will be headed to Afghanistan and they'll be heading there very soon. Gates is in Afghanistan today to meet with military leaders.
Our Barbara Starr is standing by at the Pentagon. She joins us now on the telephone.
Barbara, we know that Gates is staying on in the Obama administration at least for a little while. What's his priority on this trip?
ON THE PHONE: BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, his priority now that we know he is staying on as defense secretary is getting more combat troops into Afghanistan. And that's what he is there talking about now today in Kandahar, in southern Afghanistan. Gates is telling reporters that he will be able to move at least three of the four combat brigades that the commanders want into Afghanistan by next summer.
Now, what's really going on here? Well, one brigade about 3,000 to 5,000 troops already set to go. So, it's about another two brigades, 6,000 to 10,000 troops that he's really talking about moving into Afghanistan by next summer. And the question, of course, is why?
Well, it's security. Trying to get a handle on security. But Gates also has his eyes firmly on September of next year when Afghanistan has its presidential election and they desperately need more U.S. troops, more security in the country for those elections to be assured to take place peacefully - John.
ROBERTS: Barbara, a question a lot of people might have is where these troops going to come from?
STARR: Well, apparently not from Iraq. Gates telling reporters he won't have to move more troops out of Iraq to make this happen. What is going on behind-the-scenes here at the Pentagon, however, is a big discussion about who it will be. The Marines -- the Marine Corps is pressing very hard to be the ones to get the Afghanistan mission. They believe that Iraq is winding down and they want to go Afghanistan where they think there's a bigger fight. But those decisions still to be made -- John.
ROBERTS: That's one thing about the Marines, Barbara, they always want to be the first ones there. Barbara Starr for us in the Pentagon this morning. Barbara, thanks so much for that.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: On the hunt for Somali pirates. The Bush administration is leading a U.N. effort to fight piracy on the high seas.
Also, it was a major focus of the Obama campaign -- rebuild America's critical infrastructure. But will public works provide enough of an economic stimulus. It's 33 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The highway of tomorrow. You'll live forever this superhighway at toll gates through interchanges spaced along its 160- mile length. Whether going east or west, you drive without interruption or delay, through the ever unfolding grandeur of the Appalachians, sweeping curves and tunnels carved under the lofty mountains give new zest to your driving pleasure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning." That's a vintage Chevrolet ad from the 1950s touting the wonders of the then brand-new highway system. Showing a bit of age these days.
One of the president-elect's biggest campaign promises is a major investment in the nation's infrastructure. Could improve our bridges, roads and schools, and he hopes create millions of jobs in the biggest public works plan since the 1950s. But is this the answer to our economic problems and will it work the way Barack Obama hopes it will?
Allan Chernoff has been looking into it. He joins us now.
Good morning.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you John. Well, you know, if you're creating jobs you certainly are helping the economy, but how much does it help? It all depends what business you're in.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF (voice-over): Spinning concrete mixers means jobs at Brooklyn's Advanced Ready Mix Corporation. But the mixers are spinning less frequently these days, forcing owner Rocco Manzione to lay off nine employees. Barack Obama's infrastructure plan, he says, could bring the jobs back.
ROCCO MANZIONE, OWNER, ADVANCED READY MIX: I think it's a great idea. I think it's going to -- I think it's going to pick the economy up a little bit. We'll have people working. It will kill unemployment a little bit.
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: We will create millions of jobs by making the single largest new investment in our national infrastructure since the creation of the federal highway system in 1950s.
CHERNOFF: If Obama makes good on the pledge, infrastructure spending could mean hiring at a vast range of businesses like heavy equipment dealers Rocco buys from and the construction teams he supplies.
(on camera): More jobs means more money in the pockets of Americans. The concrete worker, for example, can spend more at his local diner. But will that trickle down, really get the country out of the recession?
(voice-over): During the Great Depression, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's administration spent more than $10 billion on New Deal projects, creating work for 8 1/2 million Americans. It helped but it didn't end the Depression.
SHARYN O'HALLORAN, PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIV.: What really pulled us out of the Great Depression was the mobilization of the U.S. economy for the war effort for World War II.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF: Today's economic problems are so broad that government spending may not be able to pull the nation out of recession. We've got to ease the credit crunch. Banks have to lend more. But the Obama infrastructure plan could be an important tool to help revive the economy.
John?
ROBERTS: But what are some -- what are some of the possible risks?
CHERNOFF: Well, one of the guaranteed risks is that we are going to balloon that budget deficit. We're talking well over a trillion dollars here. But you know what? Our problems are so severe right now. That is a problem for another day. We've got to stimulate the economy.
ROBERTS: No question, though, when you drive the roads and you go over a lot of these bridges and you see the electrical grid out there, there's a lot of work that needs to be done because it is decaying and it's decaying quickly.
CHERNOFF: A need and, clearly, this is a quick way to get jobs, inject some action into the economy.
ROBERTS: Allan, thanks for that. Good explanation.
Kiran?
CHETRY: Well, the United States pushing for international action to fight pirates that have attacked dozens of ships off of Somalia's lawless coast. We're live in the region with reactions, still ahead.
Also, the religious right helped elect and reelect President Bush. Now, Mr. Bush says that he doesn't literally interpret some of the Bible scripture. The president and his faith, still ahead. It's 40 minutes past the hour.
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ROBERTS: 42 minutes after the hour now and time to fast forward to some of the stories that will be making news later on today here on CNN.
President-elect Barack Obama holds a news conference. That will be this morning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern to announce former Senator Tom Daschle as his nominee for secretary of health and human services, but he's sure to field questions about the Blagojevich scandal. In fact, he can probably bet that that's going to captivate most of the attention of the reporters there. You can see that all live this morning on CNN and CNN.com.
Some good news on the housing front here to tell you about. Reality Track is reporting the number of American homes getting foreclosure notices last month fell by 7 percent to the lowest level since June. But foreclosure activity is still 28 percent higher than it was compared to November of 2007. And here's the rub in this. There's typically a reduction in foreclosures over the holiday season and at or around January 15th, things may start to pick up again.
And, South Carolina considering a plan to put Christian crosses on the state's license plates. A court hearing is being held today to contest the state legislature's approval of the idea. Critics say it violates the separation of church and state. But the plan is being pushed by the lieutenant governor who says he wants to celebrate his faith and he wants to celebrate it, Kiran, on his license plate.
CHETRY: All right. Still a big debate going on over that. Thanks.
Well, the Bush administration is pushing for an international effort to crack down on pirates that are operating in the waters off Somalia. A draft U.N. Security Council resolution would allow military forces to actually hunt Somali pirates on land.
CNN's David McKenzie is following this story. He's live for us in Mombasa, Kenya.
So, they do want to take this -- take this fight from the sea to the land, at least for now, to see if that makes a difference in this growing problem.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Kiran. I mean, all I've been hearing over the past few months as pirates take on more and more vessels off the coast of Somalia is, really, the solution isn't at sea, the solution is on land. And what we're hearing from the sources, particularly at the U.N. Security Council, is that the American administration, the U.S. people at the U.N., are trying to push a resolution. And what that would mean is, quote, "hot pursuit clause" and what it means is that if pirates move from the sea and onto the land, then military forces can follow them onto the land. But, as you know, Kiran, the last major military operation by western forces was the famous Black Hawk Down incident. So, they might have some trouble pushing that through the U.N. and getting those pirates on the ground. But everyone telling us that's the only way to solve this massive problem.
CHETRY: And what -- give us an update now on these eight Somali men being held on piracy charges.
MCKENZIE: That's right, Kiran. That's what we hear at the Mombasa low courts, in Mombasa, the port in Kenya. Because eight of those pirates or suspected pirates, shall I say, were brought into the court today and all that happened is that they then delayed the proceedings until early next year.
This points to the difficulty of these cases. The jurisdiction is difficult. The legal issues are difficult. These pirates are caught off the coast of Yemen and their lawyers say they were mainly fishermen. But he said they were fishermen that were carrying RPGs and automatic rifles.
So, we'll have to see as this case progresses. But it's a major landmark case. If they can push through a conviction, it means that perhaps Kenya will be kind of a dumping ground for when people catch pirates -- Kiran.
CHETRY: I got you. All right. David McKenzie for us in Mombasa, Kenya today. Thank you.
ROBERTS: Michelle Obama was once a powerful attorney commanding a six figure salary. Now, she's facing the challenges of running things in the White House, raising her kids and taking on a cause of her own as first lady. So, should she get paid for that? We'll talk about it, coming up. It's 46 minutes after the hour.
CHETRY: Hands off the pretty robot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBOT: I am not your personal slave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Jeanne Moos with tough questions for the man who created the feisty Fembot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT (on camera): How do you dress her?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Why the fake female is causing an uproar.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOOS: You're kidding. I can't believe an old lady would throw a rock at her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: You're watching the "Most News in the Morning."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning." She's shapely, soft and sexy, and for one science geek, she's the perfect woman. CNN's Jeanne Moos has her take on the couple that is hi-tech and maybe a little bit creepy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MOOS (voice-over): They make a cute couple. She's the type who turns heads.
VOICE OF LE TRUNG, AIKO'S CREATOR: Aiko, give me your left arm.
AIKO, ROBOT: No problem.
MOOS: So what if she emits a slight mechanical noise. At least she can do math equations.
TRUNG: Aiko, process math.
AIKO: The answer is 2.1746.
MOOS: Even decapitated, she can identify objects.
TRUNG: Aiko, what is this?
AIKO: It looks like a sandwich.
MOOS: She can tell the difference between cola...
AIKO: It looks like Coke.
MOOS: ...and water.
AIKO: It looks like water.
MOOS: Now if only she can make her owner some money. Le Trung may be unemployed but he's not unattached.
TRUNG: (INAUDIBLE).
MOOS: In fact, he may get slapped. This is no sex toy, despite her name Aiko. "Ai" means love and "ko" means child.
(on camera): Love child. Well, no wonder people say something's off. (voice-over): Le Trung began work on Aiko a little over a year ago, thinking he could build a robot that could serve the elderly. Almost $25,000 later --
AIKO: Ouch, that really hurt. Stop it.
MOOS: She can feel the pinch and so can he. He's asking for donations on his Web site where science meets beauty.
(on camera): How do you dress her?
TRUNG: My mother used clothes. The one that's (INAUDIBLE).
MOOS (voice-over): Your mother's used clothes? Aiko appeared at the nearby Ontario, Canada Science Center. When he took her to a local park, someone accused him of acting like God, creating something so human.
(on camera): You're kidding. I can't believe an old lady would throw a rock at her.
VOICE OF TRUNG: The problem is (INAUDIBLE). They think of Terminator.
MOOS (voice-over): Actually, we thought of Austin Power's Fembots, the ones that couldn't resist him.
Le has programmed Aiko to be the opposite of a sexpot Fembot.
AIKO: Please, stop touching my breast, you pervert.
MOOS: Nothing perverted about her reading material.
TRUNG: Aiko, process reading.
AIKO: (INAUDIBLE)
MOOS (on camera): If you held up "The New York Times," she could read it?
TRUNG: Oh, yes.
MOOS (voice-over): Though her pronunciation isn't perfect.
AIKO: It smells like a hamburger.
MOOS: Bagger, burger, what do you expect?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lick my foot.
AIKO: No, I will not lick your foot. I am not your personal slave.
MOOS: Make your own hamburger. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: President Bush on the bible. His new comments on the good book. He says it's probably not literally true.
Plus, pay attention or pop a pill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It focuses all my attention more or less on one specific task.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Mind crunch. Attention-deficit drugs for everybody and what's wrong with that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: America's biggest uncontrolled experiment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Plus, the new link between men spending money and having sex -- give and get. You're watching the "Most News in the Morning."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: President Bush won both of his terms with broad support of evangelicals and conservative Christian voters, but in a recent interview, he says that he doesn't take the bible literally, and that creationism and evolution are compatible. It raised more than a few eyebrows in the last couple of days, as you can imagine.
And joining me now to talk more about this and the president's base, CNN contributor and CBN, Christian Broadcasting Network correspondent David Brody.
David, good to see you this morning. Let's listen to a little bit about what the president said. It was in an interview with Cynthia McFadden on "Nightline" on Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CYNTHIA MCFADDEN, "NIGHTLINE": It is literally true, the bible?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Probably not. You know, the idea that -- no, I'm not a literalist. But I think you can learn a lot from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Is it literally true the bible probably not? Are you surprised?
DAVID BRODY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, sure. And I think a lot of social conservative, evangelicals are surprised, probably grabbing the smelling salts, you know, as we speak, trying to revive them from the floor. I mean, also, it was the way he said it. Oh, probably not. As in well, hello, it's the Holy Bible. So, you know, clearly there's some problems there regarding social conservative evangelicals in the way President Bush spoke. You know, it's interesting, John, that he always had the Jesus story, though. And that has between the crucial aspect to all of this. Barack Obama had the Jesus story. And John McCain not only didn't want to talk about anything that had to do with Jesus, but he didn't want to bring up faith at all, and that seem to make a difference in this campaign and it helped George Bush awhile back.
ROBERTS: What about this idea of creationism and evolution, and how they can co-exist in the president's mind. What was the line that he was walking there?
BRODY: Well, it's interesting, because if you go into the debate about creation and evolution, you get into microevolution and macroevolution. Macroevolution is obviously the controversy. It may have been microevolution where George Bush was going here. In other words, there are many creationists who also believe in a smaller form, if you will, of microevolution. And that seems to be compatible with the bible. The problem was the president didn't see of all that. If you want to use the word coherent on the subject, and I think it just raised a lot more questions in many people's minds.
ROBERTS: So, is this idea that people can believe in intelligent design in terms of the overall creation of beings and the earth, but then small amounts of evolution took place over the -- however many years...
BRODY: That's right.
ROBERTS: 6000 in some people's mind and/or $4 billion in other people's minds?
All right. You said in your article writing about this, quote -- you talk about President Bush -- "At least he doesn't have to worry about winning the socially conservative base any more because with comments like that he have to go in a damage control mode."
I covered the 2000 and 2004 campaigns. I know how something like this would have gone over. Would he have had trouble solidifying his base? Would they have run from him? Or would they have still gotten behind him? Would it just like being a, you know, two or three day story or might it have had some real impact?
BRODY: You know, it probably would have had some real impact. I mean, let's go back to the fall of 1999, if you will. And if he had said some of these comments, I think it would have raised questions. But part of the problem here, John, is that -- I should say, the problem necessarily, but, look -- I mean, like we talked about, he had the Jesus story. So that was kind of tier "a." And then this is now kind of tier "b," if you will. In other words, you know, there are different interpretations of how people exactly view the bible. So now we're getting into a little bit more of the details, the devil, if you will, is in the details. And so, it would have been an issue. The question -- how much of an issue it would have been? I think it remains unknown. But, clearly, saying these comments in 2008 compared to 1999, much different. And I got to tell you, John -- yes, go ahead. ROBERTS: But what about the overall perception of President Bush. You know, fiscal conservatives looked at him in 2000 and said, hey, here's a guy who's a real conservative. And then after he grew government, blew the budget and racked up a $4 trillion deficit, they're saying he's not a fiscal conservative. Religious conservatives were saying he is a man of faith, he's religious conservative -- are they going to question that now?
BRODY: Well, some of them may. I mean, I think already there were some of that in the last four to eight years. I mean, look at the federal marriage amendment, for example. There was a lot of Ballyhoo, if you will, four to five years ago on this. That votes were not there in the Senate and the House. So, George Bush didn't invest any political capital on that and some other social issues. And so I think there were always some questions as the years went on from social conservatives.
Not necessarily about his faith as much as just about, you know, where he was on some of these social issues. It's interesting, though, the difference between Barack Obama and George Bush on this. This is where politics come in to play. George Bush has always been, quote, "good" on the life issue with social conservatives and good on the marriage issue. And it seems that he had cover because he had the public policy positions down and that's why he was always somewhat insulated from some of these comments.
ROBERTS: Interesting to hear some of this stuff with only a few weeks left to go in his presidency. David Brody, good to talk to you this morning. Thanks for joining us.
BRODY: Oh, pleasure, John.
CHETRY: Meanwhile, just about a minute before the top of the hour. Breaking news this morning on the auto bailout. The $14 billion package that passed the House last night now faces a much tougher vote in the Senate. This bill is designed to keep GM, Chrysler and Ford from going bankrupt for at least the first 100 days of the Obama administration, so that Washington can come up with a long term solution. Senate Republicans say that any federal help must be contingent on specific restructuring plans.
Nationwide riots destroying Greek cities and crippling the government. Thousands of protesters gathered in the center of Athens yesterday, firebombing the main courthouse as general strike has continued to bring the country to a standstill. The riots started after police shot and killed a teenager on Saturday. Two officers are now facing charges.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates says the Pentagon is working to get thousands of additional troops into Afghanistan. He says three additional brigades could be deployed by the summer. Gates is in Kandahar meeting with military leaders who have asked for a total of 4 new brigades or roughly 20,000 troops to continue to battle a resurgent Taliban.
