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Nancy Grace
Latest Caylee Anthony Case Details
Aired December 12, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Major bombshells tonight in the disappearance of a 2-year-old Florida girl named Caylee, skeletal remains of a small child discovered just yards from the Anthony home. And now it`s looking more and more likely that these are the remains of little Caylee Anthony. In the last hours, the defense announces in open court that the body size and hair color matches Caylee`s.
And we learn of another shocking discovery at the scene. Our sources reveal duct tape was found over the mouth of the child`s remains. Was the young victim silenced before her death? Tonight, we will play for you the stunning 911 call made immediately after the remains were found. Plus, the local sheriff reveals that evidence at the scene leads police straight back to the Anthony home.
Real-life CSI teams swarm the tot mom`s home, removing multiple bags and boxes of evidence, including vacuum cleaners, a pillow and pesticide tanks. Tonight, are the skull and bones all that is left of little Caylee Anthony?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is Orange County utilities emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, my gosh!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was at about 9:30 yesterday morning, after the meter reader walked 20 to 30 feet into these woods less than a half mile from Caylee Anthony`s house to relieve himself. He saw a black trash bag and poked it.
Investigators were back again today, sifting through dirt by hand in the immediate area where the remains were found, looking for any other evidence that might have been left behind. And we understand they have found additional evidence here.
The remains were not just a skull and bones, but hair and some remaining human flesh. Duct tape was found over the mouth of the child`s skull, stuck to some of that tissue. The tape and remaining tissue could hold clues, possibly fingerprints or traces of chemicals that could tell us who killed the child and how.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators with a search warrant removed more evidence from the house, like this blue and gray shop vac, a pillow, pool chemicals and pesticides.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that this is Caylee?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we believe there`s certainly enough of an indication right now for us to come here with a motion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Fast-breaking developments tonight, skeletal remains of a small child discovered just yards from the Anthony home match the hair color and bone measurements of little Caylee Anthony. And tonight, we have the stunning 911 call.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we`ve -- this is Orange County utilities emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, my gosh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know. We`ve got -- is it a meter reader?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m letting you speak right now with a representative of our field services (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything is recorded. Here he is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing? A skull from (INAUDIBLE) that we believe is human.
911 OPERATOR: What`s the location?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s right off of Suburban and Chickasaw, in the Caylee Anthony area, right by the...
911 OPERATOR: Oh! Do you have a specific address for me or not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s right by the school. If you take (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Suburban and Golden what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suburban and Chickasaw.
911 OPERATOR: Chickasaw. I`m sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. And the school is right there. I can`t think of the name of the school. Just go right straight down, it dead-ends right into the woods. It`ll be on the east side of Chickasaw and Suburban.
911 OPERATOR: East side of Chickasaw. And what is your party`s name that we`re going to meet with? He`s not touching this, I hope.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he`s a meter reader.
911 OPERATOR: Meter reader?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, and I`ll just tell him to stay at that location and just stay away from everything.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And if you can transfer (ph) to him to please not walk into the area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: And that would be great, just in case there is something. It may be nothing, but just in case. And you`re from what department?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Utilities customer service.
911 OPERATOR: Utilities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if you need any information, my phone number is...
911 OPERATOR: Go ahead and send a call up for a deputy to meet with him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
911 OPERATOR: And is we`ll see you there very shortly. What type of vehicle is he going to be in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably a Colorado, small Colorado, white...
911 OPERATOR: White?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will have an Orange County insignia on it.
911 OPERATOR: OK. White Colorado truck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: And with Orange County markings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: OK. We`ll see you there very shortly, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
911 OPERATOR: Bye-bye.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So many developments on so many fronts. Let`s go straight out to Mark Williams, the news director at WNDB Newstalk 1150. Mark, you are near the very spot where the remains were discovered. What is the very latest?
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, it looks like they`re, first, wrapping up this crime scene slowly but surely, Jane. They`ve been here since 5:00 o`clock this morning. They`ve been going through everything, sifting through the -- even the ground that`s around there.
But late today, the Orange County sheriff`s office, a spokesman for that office, Jane, said they are pretty much positive that the remains found here at that site in back of us belong to Caylee Marie Anthony. And the reason given by SO spokesman Carlos Padilla is the fact that there are no kids missing in the range of 3 years of age. The remains are consistent with a 3-year-old, and it is near the Anthony homestead. Would you believe three tenths of a mile away, maybe 15 doors away, where this -- where the remains were found yesterday.
In addition, defense attorney Linda Kenny Baden (ph) says attorney for Casey Anthony Jose Baez was told that the measurements of the bones and the color of the hair match Caylee Marie Anthony -- Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, so many developments once again coming from the sheriff`s department. Let`s listen to the sheriff himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN BEARY, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF: There`s certain things that they want to be looking for. Some of those clues came from the crime scene yesterday, and a lot of items were taken into our custody for review.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know you can`t go into detail, but there was something that was found that made you want to search the grandparents` home?
BEARY: Absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was Sheriff Kevin Beary on ABC`s "Good Morning America" after detectives removed evidence from the Anthony home last night.
Let`s go to Natisha Lance, a NANCY GRACE producer who has been on scene from the very beginning. Where are the remains tonight, Natisha?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Those remains are with the Orange County medical examiner`s office, Jane. And I spoke to Deputy Carlos Padilla tonight, and he told me that they will remain there. What is going to happen is that they will have a conversation with the FBI, figure out which items might need to go to Quantico for further testing. But that does not necessarily mean that all of the remains will be shipped off to Quantico for that additional testing.
Now, they said something in court today, saying that there has been no tentative ID that has been made on these remains. However, the medical examiner`s office did release a press release later on this afternoon saying that preliminary results will not be released, which is a little interesting, saying they have no tentative ID, but now they`re saying even if they do have them, they`re not releasing any preliminary results on those remains.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, I want to bring in the attorneys because what`s so shocking here, Joey Jackson and Darryl Cohen, is that the claim that they have tentatively identified this child as little Caylee Anthony came from the defense attorneys, and you have the actual authorities saying, No, no, wait, that`s premature, we`ve still got to do our DNA test. Isn`t that backwards? Isn`t it the defense attorneys who are supposed to say, No, it`s not little Caylee, and the prosecution is supposed to say, Yes, it is?
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Jane, it absolutely is. But here`s the real issue. Now, what has happened in this case, Jane, it has moved from a circumstantial case -- you might remember early on, they were saying she didn`t report it. She ultimately told the police conflicting things. There was evidence of decomposition in her trunk, you know, the Internet searches with the chloroform. This takes that out of the spectrum of circumstantial evidence and allows the direct evidence to establish guilt in this case, and that`s what`s so significant. If there are prints on that duct tape, is there chloroform attached to that body, that`s the significance of this development.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. Now, Darryl Cohen, the reason why the defense was saying it is Caylee is because they wanted the right to go in and observe the autopsy. The judge said, No way. And the prosecution was saying, No, no, we don`t know for sure it`s her, so we can`t let the defense team in. Is that a fair assessment?
DARRYL COHEN, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY`S FORMER FIANCE, JESSE GRUND: I think it`s a very fair assessment. I also think it`s something, a bone that the defense is throwing out, trying to say, when they`re not allowed in, that the scene is going to be contaminated. As a result of that, our experts are not going to be able to show what really needs to be shown. It`s just a game they`re playing, and it`s not a very good one, quite frankly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`ve got the phone lines lighting up, stacked up over LaGuardia here. Sherry in Michigan. Your question or thought, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think since Casey had fought with her mother that day and knew that her mother loved Caylee so much, that she could have killed Caylee to punish her mother?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. That`s a heavy-duty question. I want to bring in Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter. He has searched for Caylee Anthony. And I want to dovetail that with another comment today. We have observed - - this is another breaking development -- that the Anthonys returned home from California. They were not initially allowed into their home because they had gotten a search warrant, and they were actually -- authorities were searching that home and removing all sorts of items. And we`re going to get to all of the specific items they removed in a bit because it`s a fascinating list.
Meantime, Cindy and Anthony (SIC) have now returned home. They went in. They grabbed their two dogs, they grabbed their suitcase and they left. What is the significance of that? Is it for their safety, or is it possibly, Leonard, that the information that they`ve gotten from authorities has chilled them to the bone, that they may be thinking, Oh, my gosh, perhaps the child died in this home. I don`t want any part of this home.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: No, it`s not that. I think they had a pretty significant belief that the child was dead prior to that. I think it`s just readjusting their defense strategy as to how they`re going to handle it. They`re probably huddling with their attorneys right now. Somebody said that they were actually filming a Larry King show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leonard, how could you possibly say that they were pretty convinced that their grandchild was dead when they flew to California to follow a sighting, when they have said repeatedly over and over again, We believe our grandchild is alive? I mean, you`re not a mind reader, you can`t go in there and create thoughts in their head that they may not be having.
PADILLA: George was a homicide detective for 10 years in Warren, Ohio. He knows what the smell of a decomposing body is. Cindy`s been a nurse for years and years, and she knows what a decomposing body smells like. And Cindy`s the one that posted on July the 3rd, My Caylee is gone.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, OK. Then basically, you`re saying that everything that they`re doing is a big act up until this point, like going to the sightings. But let`s ask this question...
PADILLA: The defense strategy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, they`re going to have to come up with a new one, let me tell you that.
PADILLA: No, they`re going to blame it on Zenaida, and say she dumped by the family house so that she could frame them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but Zenaida doesn`t exist.
PADILLA: We know that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The Zenaida that they found has nothing to do with this case. Zanny the nanny is a figment of her imagination.
PADILLA: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, we`re going to have to see what they`re going to come up with now as a defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Science is science. It should speak for itself, and it shouldn`t be manipulated. And if it can, then it`s not science. We have qualified people, the best in the business, reviewing this evidence so we will be able to actually verify it independently. And that`s all we`re asking for, nothing more. And we`re not even asking to hide it. We`re allowing them to observe whatever it is we do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we`ve -- this is Orange County utilities emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, my gosh!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know. We`ve got -- is it a meter reader?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m letting you speak right now with a representative from our field services (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything is recorded. Here he is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing? A skull from (INAUDIBLE) that we believe human.
911 OPERATOR: What`s the location?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s right off of Suburban and Chickasaw, in the Caylee Anthony area, right by the...
911 OPERATOR: Oh! Do you have a specific address for me or not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s right by the school. If you take (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Suburban and Golden what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suburban and Chickasaw.
911 OPERATOR: Chickasaw. I`m sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. And the school is right there. I can`t think of the name of the school. Just go right straight down, it dead-ends right into the woods. It`ll be on the east side of Chickasaw and Suburban.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remember that if this is the daughter of Casey Anthony, this little -- is little Caylee Anthony, she is still the mother of this child, and she`s still presumed innocent. And like any person, she would have a right to see remains, to view remains, and to, hopefully, deal with the remains in a manner that would be appropriate scientifically.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Bombshell developments in the Caylee Anthony case. Orange County, Florida, sheriff`s officials say they are confident the skull and bones of a child is that of missing toddler Caylee Anthony. The phone lines lighting up. We`re going to get to them in just a moment.
But first I have to bring you up to date with Drew Petrimoulx, reporter from WDBO radio, on what they found inside the Anthony home. Now, Drew, the sheriff`s officials said that something at the crime scene with the remains was a clue that led them right back to that home. What did they take out of that home?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, first I think we should note that the house has already been searched. This was a third search, so it had to be something that was at this crime scene that led them back to the house. And what they ended up taking out was a vacuum, a vacuum container that would collect stuff off of the carpet when you vacuum, also pool-cleaner chemicals and pesticides. And then they also took out some pillows from the house. We`re not really sure why they took the pillows out, but obviously, something from the crime scene led them back there to remove that, as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner, obviously, the knowledge and the news, courtesy of our producer, Natisha Lance, that the duct tape was apparently found over the mouth of the remains is shocking and it`s gruesome and it`s grisly. How does that relate to what they removed from the home? Could it be something on the duct tape that they`re trying to match up with fibers from the home? Particularly when you think of the vacuum cleaner is removed.
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, this tape is very important because, obviously. it was placed there when the child was alive -- otherwise there wouldn`t be no reason to place it -- and because the sticky part of the tape, there might be fibers, there might be hairs. There might be things which are inside the plastic bag which were discarded from the house, like a cigarette pack which is Grandpa`s or an envelope or other stuff which can be actually directly connected to what is in the house.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to ask the attorneys in a second how that evidence would stack up in a criminal trial.
But first, let`s go to the phones. Robin in Michigan, your question or thought, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first I just want to say how absolutely heartsick I am over what this little baby girl must have went through in her last minutes. But I`m thinking maybe she was suffocated. And if so, the tape would have fibers from a pillow. You said pillows were removed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what kind of -- I think it just shows the proof that this wouldn`t be an accident. Why would she place tape over her baby`s mouth? I mean, if this was an accident and she was panicked and tried to get rid of it -- but I think this shows how diabolical she is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think excellent question. Donald Schweitzer -- you`re a former detective with Santa Ana PD. You`ve heard what they removed from the house. You`ve heard what they found at the remains -- the duct tape, the plastic bag, the skull, the bones. What do you make -- how can you put those two together to try to read into what the detectives are thinking right now?
DONALD SCHWEITZER, FORMER DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: Well, Jane, what I`m thinking of is, is that they found some cloth, maybe some kind of material, at the site where these remains are, and they`re just trying to find anything that they could put under a microscope later on. These police are just trying to get it all, get as much as they can, and then get it over to the crime lab so that they can actually do the work and look at it with a microscope.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What about the pesticide cans, though? I mean, of all of the things to remove from the home, two cans of pesticides. It strikes me as very odd. That`s something very specific. They`re not taking out other things, like furniture.
SCHWEITZER: I agree with you. And I think that they may be looking at the Internet searches that were going on with the computer. If they could find a cause of death that`s consistent with those searches that somebody was doing research on, that would go a long way of showing premeditation, and you know, who did it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, one thing just occurs to me is that they said they found a skull, and on the computer searches on Casey`s computer, there was a search for neck-breaking. I don`t know if those two match up, but it certainly seems an odd coincidence.
Donna in Kansas, your question or thought, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, there. Thank you for taking my call, Jane. This baby`s skeleton was found with no clothes. Back in the first or second time she was arrested, she was making fun of the police and she made the comment, They haven`t even found her clothes yet. I want to know how the defense is going to explain that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fascinating. Either coincidence, or she slipped. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, sometimes -- and again, this woman is presumed innocent, but sometimes criminals slip and they say things that are incredibly incriminating because it`s hard to keep that many lies together, right?
LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, sometimes they slip. And sometimes, when people have a very sociopathic, psychopathic personality, they like to play games and say something that`s true in their world that nobody else can discover. A comment like saying, I feel her very near, if, in fact, she was involved, if it`s shown that she did kill her daughter and she was involved in burying her, that may be a way of teasing the police. And it`s very, very twisted.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leonard Padilla, your thoughts. Leonard?
PADILLA: She didn`t have the intention to kill her, I don`t believe. She chloroformed her to put her in the trunk asleep while she met somebody on the night of the 15th. The tape around the mouth was in case she woke and started making noises in the trunk. But I think what happened is, she overdosed her with the chloroform, and she panicked. And on the 24th, from the -- when the dad almost worked his way around to the trunk, she ran around the corner and dumped her in the bushes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Baez was called yesterday by the sheriff -- and he can correct me if I`m wrong -- and told that the anthropological measurements were correct on the child for her being Casey (SIC) Anthony, that the hair color was correct, and that they were proceeding as if this was Caylee -- little Caylee Anthony.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want any craziness at the Anthony house. It needs to be left alone. Right now, that house is secured for the possibility of being more or a crime scene later. So I don`t want anything going on crazy there. I want people to act like human beings. And I will tell you, we`re not going to put up with any nonsense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But the Anthonys have packed up and left, taking even their pets.
I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Bombshell developments tonight. Authorities say they are now confident the remains discovered are Caylee`s.
So many questions. Let`s go straight out to Jannie in Tennessee. Your question, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I`m just wondering, the reward money, if it does turn out to be her, would the utility worker be the one who would get the money? And I just want to say what a great job the whole staff has done on covering this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the whole Nancy Grace staff has done an amazing job, including producer Natisha Lance.
Leonard Padilla, reward money?
PADILLA: There was a reward if she was found alive. And for a period of time, I had offered one if she was found dead, but that was recalled because a lot of people were trampling back yards and stuff. And so I took it off the table way back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is Orange County Utilities Emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know. We`ve got -- is it a meter reader?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don`t you speak right now with a representative from our field services facilities? Hi. Everything is recorded. Here he is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing? A skull, and we believe it`s human.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is the location?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s right off of Suburban and Chickasaw in the Caylee Anthony area right by the.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh! Do you have a specific address for me or not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s right by the school. If you take.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suburban and Goldenrod?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suburban and Chickasaw.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chickasaw, I`m sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, and the school is right there. I can`t think of the name of the school. But just go right straight down, it dead-ends right into the woods. It`ll be on the east side of Chickasaw and Suburban.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: East side of Chickasaw and, what is your party`s name that we`re going to meet with? He`s not touching this, I hope.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s a meter reader.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meter reader?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I`ll just tell him to stay at that location, and just stay away from everything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And if you can, stress to him to please not draw attention to the area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that would be great. Just in case it is something, it may be nothing, but just in case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you`re from what department?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Utilities customer service.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Utilities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if you need any information, my phone number is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go ahead and send a call out for a deputy to meet with him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we`ll see you there very shortly. What type of vehicle is he going to be in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably a Colorado. Small Colorado, white.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: White?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With a Orange County -- it had an Orange County insignia on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. White Colorado truck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And with Orange County markings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Orange County markings. OK. We`ll see you there very shortly, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bye-bye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.
Stunning 911 calls after a meter reader going to relieve himself at a wooded area finds a plastic bag and there was a skull and bones inside.
Tonight, it appears ever more likely that those are the remains of Caylee Anthony. Clearly those at the crime scene immediately made the connection, as did the 911 operator you just heard from.
Let`s go straight out to our producer, Natisha Lance.
You, I understand, have some new inside information on when the crime scenes, where are the remains were found, is going to be cleared and what happens to the defense team entering that in the aftermath.
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, there is a possibility that the crime scene could be cleared tonight. We`re keeping a watchful eye on it, trying to see when the deputies might clear this area.
What we were told is -- in court today, they did make an arrangement, saying that the defense would be contacted once they were done with this scene, and they would let them know, so they could come in and then do their own investigating of this case.
However, Orange County Sheriff`s Office is saying that they are not going to hold this spot for them. They`re not going to secure it for them. Once they`re done, they`re out of here. They`ll let the defense know, and that`s about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they better get over there fast, because given the publicity surrounding this case, when they take down that yellow tape, and as a reporter, I`ve seen it many times, people just swarm in there.
So if the defense wants to check it out, since they have been denied the opportunity to observe the autopsy, they better be standing by.
I want to bring the defense attorneys, Daryl Cohen and Joey Jackson, because it appears the defense team is becoming a dream team.
And Joey, let me start with you and get your reaction to this very, very high-powered team that is being assembled. Linda Kenney Baden is famous from the Phil Spector case and many other cases. Dr. Henry Lee is famous of O.J. Simpson and JonBenet Ramsey cases.
Werner Spitz is a veteran medical examiner. Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, he`s famous from being on this show, we all know him. Kathy Reichs, a very well known forensic anthropologist.
I mean if they are creating this kind of team, what does that say about the kind of case they plan to wage in court during the trial?
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, here`s what it is, Jane. It`s always comforting as a defense attorney to have people who are confident and knowledgeable around you. But at the end of the day, you have to deal with the evidence, and, of course, they`re going to deal with it and they`ll evaluate it.
Now, on the issue of them actually petitioning to be present and observing the actual autopsy, let`s start there. No matter how confident or reliable your expert team is, it`s totally not necessary. The discovery rules of California allow -- excuse me, of Florida, allow for the information to be given to the defense for that team of outstanding experts to evaluate it, and it`s simply no basis for other reasons to be there.
The other thing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Daryl -- Daryl Cohen, why is it that the defense was so desperate to get in there and observe the autopsy if it -- if it`s basically a non-bias procedure that really you can count on?
DARYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t believe for one moment that the defense truly wanted to be there. They wanted to say they wanted to be there knowing the judge, knowing the prosecution was not going to allow it. So that gives them the opportunity at a later date to say, hey, someone has contaminated this.
I mean, let`s face it. The prosecution is driving this case slow, methodical, meticulous. The defense`s -- and their job is to win a guilty verdict, if that`s where it goes.
The defense`s job is to cut holes in it and to divert. They want to throw up a smokescreen. The more smoke you have, the less chance the prosecution has to drive in.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me tell you something about this dream team. And I think they`re all great professionals. I`m not trying to knock them. But they are specialists in smoke and mirrors. Every single one of them -- and I`m speaking particularly of Dr. Henry Lee and Linda Kenney Baden.
They know how to take a case that appears to be an open and shut case, like the Phil Spector case, for example, where she was an attorney, and it ended in mistrial, now a retrial, and they took a case that was very simple and made it the -- most complicated cases of the entire universe, and that`s what I`m afraid is going to happen with this case.
COHEN: Not -- no.
JACKSON: Well, that`s their job.
COHEN: Not going to happen in this particular instance. Florida is a law and order state. I suspect the judge, the state attorney`s office, is going to try a very down and dirty case, unlike what happened in Phil Spector, where it took forever.
This is not California. This is not a liberal state. This is a very conservative state, and in Orlando, I suspect you`re going to see something very quick. You`re not going to see a long, convoluted trial. And they`re not going to get away with.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, unless they get a change of venue to South Beach, you know? You never know what could happen.
Listen, Brenda in West Virginia has a question. Brenda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, hi. What I wanted to know is, instead of charging her with first-degree murder, why don`t they go on second-degree murder and this way, instead of trying to prove that it was premeditated or planned, at least a second degree murder charge would definitely hold, and she still could get, say, a life sentence in prison.
I had that happen to me. My late husband was murdered, and he was identified by his remains, which was dental, and they went with second- degree murder. And he got life in prison out of it, to make sure that he was.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, ma`am, I am so sorry that that happened to you, and that you had that experience, first of all. My heart goes out to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And thank you so much -- thank you so much for calling and sharing your wisdom and experience.
Donald Schweitzer, there has been this big debate over whether this was pre-medicated or this was an accident, and then a cover-up. Based on the new information of what was found with the remains, the duct tape, the plastic bag and what was found at the house, have you reevaluated your theories?
DONALD SCHWEITZER, FMR. DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: It`s only supported my theory. I`ve thought for a long time that this was premeditated, given the fact that we have these -- searches going on in the Internet, looking for ways to murder people.
And then we have her behavior. Cold, callous, you know, that wasn`t the behavior of somebody that had an accident. That was somebody that really was kind of relieved that she didn`t have a child anymore. It looked like there was some planning. So I commend the prosecution for going forward with the first-degree -- murder prosecution.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Leslie Austin, what makes me so sick to my stomach is that apparently because this young lady is pretty and young, people -- some people, anyway, find it harder to accept the fact that she may have -- and I`m not saying she did, but hypothetically, they`re finding it harder to accept the fact that a young mother would commit premeditated murder.
If she were ugly and fat, do you think that maybe they`d find it easier to make that conclusion?
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Sadly, unfortunately, I think that`s true. We like to demonize people that aren`t ideal, and she has a great media image. She is attractive, she is young. I think it`s terrible to think that a mother could do that. It`s worse to think that a young, attractive lively mother could hurt a toddler like that, such a savage way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Joshua Perper, when are we going to get the DNA results? Do we know where the remains are tonight, and when they`re going to Quantico, Virginia to the FBI?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": Well, they don`t need to send all the remains. They need to send only a small sample and probably they already sent it with the FBI, and within a week or 14 days, we are going to have the results.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: She is not just my little girl, and I know -- I mean, she`s my baby. She`ll always be my baby. But she will always be your baby and dad`s baby. And Lee`s baby. She`s our little girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: Before the Oak Ridge Laboratory report came out, there was a test of the air that was found not conclusive. Of course, none of you ever received notice of that until maybe five months later. And I think it made one blip on the news media. And one little story. And everybody forgot about that.
We`ve got two conflicting results, and nobody says anything when it comes to anything exculpatory when it has to do with Casey, and that disturbs us, which is why we want in as quickly as possible, and to be able to inspect it in the same manner in which it is, and to be able to, you know -- to be able to inspect it appropriately.
Remember that if this is the daughter of Casey Anthony, this little -- is little Caylee Anthony, she is still the mother of this child, and she is still presumed innocent, and like any person, she would have a right to see remains, to view remains, and to hopefully deal with the remains in a manner that would be appropriate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What! We`re going to examine that.
I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.
Bombshells tonight, Casey`s grandparents appear to pack up and leave their home with their dogs hours after the cops do a CSI-sweep of the home and authorities leaving with bags of evidence, vacuum cleaners, and pesticide cans.
What does it all mean and specifically?
Let`s bring in the defense attorneys, Joey Jackson and Daryl Cohen.
Joey, she`s saying that just because Casey is the mom, she gets to see the remains? She is also in jail charged with murder.
COHEN: Yes, this is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean did -- Scott Peterson get to see Lacey and Conner`s remains?
JACKSON: Very nice point, Jane. Look, the issue on the -- as far as , let`s go back to them taking the items out of the home and establishing the connection. I`ll tell you something. What concerns me is not the vacuum cleaner, the vacuum cleaner container. That`s not of really concern. Because you could explain that away, and certainly this is (INAUDIBLE) the child.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is your concern?
JACKSON: The concern is the pesticides and the chemicals. If indeed there is an autopsy report and the pesticides and chemicals, there`s a link between the two, that dream team is going to have a significant -- certainly front to mount in explaining away how those chemicals and pesticides translate into that body. That`s the concern.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fascinating.
Dawn in Texas. Your question, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I have a question for Leonard Padilla. At one point, there was a home-made cot found at some location, and the beads matched some beads that were supposedly in Casey Anthony`s home.
Did -- where is that location compared to where the body was found?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, SEARCHED FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: The -- the little Econ River is approximately six miles north of where the body was found. The body is exactly -- a third of a mile from the residence. The little Econ River is about six miles north.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mark Williams, what is the mood in that neighborhood? You are right there, right where the remains were found, and that`s just less than half a mile from the Anthony home.
What is it like for this community, being the center of the storm again tonight?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, as you know, Jane, I was out at the house last night, at Hope Spring Drive, and I think a sense of relief that this thing, at least in the house, and in the neighborhood, may be coming to an end.
We finally have a body. A body of somebody. As the sheriff`s department said, it is probably little Caylee Anthony. And I think there`s that sense of relief. A little bit of closure for the folks, due to the fact that they have been riveted to this story, not only here in Orlando, but across the nation and around the world, since really the middle of July.
So there`s that somewhat sense of closure. And I think a really sense of closure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But they`re sick of it, right? I mean, they`re sick of.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think -- in other words, some neighbors of people who are involved in major.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: . dramas, like, let`s say, Drew Peterson.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: . they are sick of it, they want it to end. How about these people here?
WILLIAMS: I think-- I think after we find out who the body really belongs to, or we have an identity on the body and the news crews go away from the front of the house, they`ll say, have a nice day, folks, don`t come back. Because the story is not there anymore. It`s in the courtroom.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think, Drew Petrimoulx, that the Anthonys can live in that home, given everything that`s happened?
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: I mean, it`s going to be hard, and especially if evidence comes out that the -- that Caylee was killed inside the home. You`ve got to figure that it would be very hard for them to function day to day in there.
In fact, they`re not staying there now. They are allowed back in that house, but they`ve chosen to stay at the Ritz -- the Ritz Hotel, so they can -- it seems like they don`t want to be there tonight, at least.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I think that`s absolutely significant. And more will be revealed on that.
Jessica in Alabama. Your question, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am. I know that the death penalty was taken off the table. But seeing all the research that she had done, and all of the lies that she has told to cover herself from the very beginning, is it possible that it could be put back on the table?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Daryl Cohen, why did they take the death penalty off the table, to begin with, and could it go back on?
COHEN: Well, I think, first of all, yes, it can go back on, but the reality is, in the beginning, they didn`t have a body, and when you take this and go away from hypotheticals, juries like real evidence. Now we have real evidence, and yes, I think they can.
And one other thing I want to point out, the defense team, dream team, bad dreams come as well as good dreams. And it`s very important for the defense -- for this dream team not to let everything go to their heads and be all about them. It needs to be about their client.
But I think point by point, they`re going to have a real major, major problem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How are they affording this dream team, Leonard Padilla? I mean, these people do not come cheap.
PADILLA: No, most of these attorneys work for a piece of the action down the road, book and movie rights and things of that nature. But going back to Judge Fidler in California, if you go on to one of the computer sites that dealt with that trial, the judge really dressed down, the defense team out there, especially their expert, Dr. Lee, over a nail that was.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, you`re talking about the Phil Spector case, yes.
PADILLA: Yes. Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But -- but nevertheless, these high-priced, high-powered legal experts earn their pay.
PADILLA: But, but.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And they take an open and shut case, which some people say now that -- if in fact this is Caylee, this will become -- and they use confusion and they use an overwhelming amount of minutiae to completely confuse and dazzle the jurors. This is what they`re known for.
PADILLA: Before it`s over, they will have so much convolution going in there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.
PADILLA: And -- Zenaida will be wondering if she`s going to get arrested.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Exactly.
PADILLA: I`m telling you, you watch what happens.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
PADILLA: You`re right, you`re absolutely right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. Penny from Michigan, quick comment or thought, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am, I have two things to say. Mr. Padilla, I was just wondering why you`re so sure about Caylee being just, you know -- the tape across her mouth, and then just giving her a little chloroform.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Leonard, final word. Ten seconds.
PADILLA: Chloroform was used to put her to sleep so she could go to her boyfriend`s. And she put the tape across the mouth in case she woke. You don`t want to hear a child screaming out of a trunk of a car. It resulted in death instead of...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And now a look back at the stories making the rest of the headlines this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: O.J. Simpson heads to his new house. The big house.
O.J. SIMPSON, FORMER NFL STAR: In no way did mean to hurt anybody, to steal anything from anyone.
GRACE: Oh, boo-hoo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you would have gotten off this robbery trial it wouldn`t matter. He`s so narcissistic, I think he would have robbed a year later something else. He would have been in the news and in another trial. He keeps wanting to do the wrong thing. But they caught him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just released grainy surveillance video showing missing mom Nadia Kersh leaving her job at a local market to pick up her 1- year-old son from day care. Nadia never made it to the day care center.
GRACE: With me is Nadia`s mother.
NANCY KERSH, MOTHER OF MISSING NADIA KERSH: She was a dedicated mom. She brought him everywhere.
GRACE: The search still on for the 23-year-old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities have arrested and charged 28-year-old Curtis Lavelle Vance in the brutal beating and murder of Arkansas anchorwoman Anne Pressly.
GRACE: DNA links him allegedly not only to her attack but a rape attack nearly 100 miles away.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Had they processed that DNA and tracked down this suspect months earlier, Anne Pressly might be alive today.
GRACE: She would be alive today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There may be a break in the case of the missing Florida toddler.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The remains of a young child have been found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Less than half a mile from Caylee Anthony`s grandparents` home.
WILLIAMS: This is now a crime scene. There is more than likely some evidence that they would find that would tie the plastic bag to Casey Anthony.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight let`s stop to remember Army Private Eugene Kanakaole, only 19, from Maui, Hawaii, killed in Iraq.
He fulfilled his life-long dream of enlisting. He was proud to serve his country. He loved football and track and field. He leaves behind parents Christine and Eugene, sisters Teresa, and brother David, who is also serving the military.
Eugene Kanakaole, an American hero.
Thanks to all of our guests for their insights. Thanks to you at home for tracking this very important case with us. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And be sure to tune in right here at 7:00 p.m. eastern for "ISSUES" with me, Jane Velez-Mitchell.
Meantime have a happy and very safe evening.
END
