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Campbell Brown
Government Admits Mistakes in Madoff Investigation; President Bush Speaks Out
Aired December 16, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone.
Breaking news is bullet point number one tonight. Just minutes ago, the head of the Securities and Exchange Commission admitted huge mistakes surrounding the investigation of Bernard Madoff. He's the New York investment firm boss charged with bilking $50 billion out of investors.
In a statement -- this is just released -- Christopher Cox uses words like deeply troubled, gravely concerned, and multiple failures, after SEC Staffers are accused of failing to warn their bosses how bad things could be. Well, now Cox is demanding an investigation of his own department. We are going to have the very latest for you shortly.
Bullet point number two tonight, stunning new information about one of the people who wants to be Barack -- or who wants, rather, Barack Obama's Senate seat, Illinois Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr., who asked Governor Rod Blagojevich for his endorsement just days before the governor's arrest. Well, we have just learned Jackson was working with federal prosecutors in a separate probe against Blagojevich years before Obama's Senate seat became an issue.
Gary Tuchman first reported this story. He is going to be here in a few moments to tell us more.
And bullet point number three tonight: President Bush in an exclusive one-on-one interview with our own Candy Crowley. The final days in office are anything but quiet. His past, Barack Obama's future and those flying shoes, we will have that and more from one of the president's last Oval Office interviews.
And bullet point number four tonight, justice for John Walsh and his family. His "America's Most Wanted" crusade against crime began for the most agonizing of reasons, the abduction and murder of his own 6-year-old son, Adam -- 27 years later, police say they know who did it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN WALSH, HOST, "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED": Today, this is a reaffirmation of the fact that he didn't die in vain, that beautiful little boy.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: We're going to look at how this tragedy changed the way that America finds missing children and fugitives. We will talk about that tonight, too.
First, though, we're "Cutting Through The Bull" and as a mother, I can hardly bear to imagine what the Larson family is going through today. The Utah couple this past weekend said goodbye to the little boy they legally adopted six months ago. The boy's name is Talon. And when they took him in, they said he had drugs in his system and that his birth mother had been declared unfit.
They took care of the child and have loved and cared for him for the last six months. But this couple has now lost their son because the birth mother is part Native American. She's a member of the Leech Lake band of the Ojibwe tribe. And her tribe went to court and argued that the mother had changed her mind. And the tribe won the right to take custody of this child.
A federal law called the Indian Child Welfare Act gives the tribe a legitimate claim. This was a law that was designed to keep Native American children with Native American families. It was passed in 1978, amid concerns by Native Americans that their numbers were dwindling and that they were losing their culture. The law allows them to broadly declare who is Native American.
For example, the birth mother is apparently only one-quarter Native American. The little boy is apparently less than that. The Larsons say he doesn't even meet the blood requirements to become a member of the tribe.
But the outrage here is this. The little boy isn't going back to his birth mother. He's expected to go into foster care, perhaps with other siblings already in foster care, again, because the birth mother has been declared unfit.
So, a little boy is being taken away from loving parents who have cared for him for the last six months and put into tribal foster care, because that is what the law says is the right thing to do.
To me, that is a ridiculous law. If there's concern in the Native American community that children are being lost to the tribe through adoption because of unfit parents, then focus on strengthening your families, so that your children won't be parentless.
It seems to me that entirely lost here is what is in the best interests of this child. The Larson family is going back to court to try to get their little boy back. I wish them the best of luck.
If you have any thoughts, we would love it if you share them with us. Go to CNN.com/Campbell and click on the lick to send us your questions and your comments. We will share some of them with you a little bit later.
But we turn now to this hour's breaking news in the $50 billion scandal that has cost thousands of investors their life savings. Within the past hour, the head of the Securities and Exchange Commission confirmed that for years government watchdogs ignored credible and specific allegations against Wall Street tycoon Bernard Madoff.
The statement from the SEC chairman, Chris Cox, says -- quote -- "I am gravely concerned by the apparent multiple failures over at least a decade to thoroughly investigate these allegations or at any point to seek formal authority to pursue them."
Madoff was arrested last Thursday, accused of swindling his investors out of some $50 billion, as you have heard. And in another new revelation tonight, the SEC says Madoff kept several sets of books and false documents, provided false to investors and to regulators.
Here with their take on this unfolding financial disaster is our chief business correspondent, Ali Velshi, and "Fortune" magazine managing editor Andy Serwer.
Guys, I don't know where to begin here.
Ali, why don't you start us off with this breaking news, a statement coming out just a little while from the SEC, from Chris Cox.
(CROSSTALK)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Unbelievable.
BROWN: It is unbelievable.
VELSHI: He also says -- just prior to the statement you just read, he said: "The Commission has learned that credible and specific allegations regarding Mr. Madoff's financial wrongdoing, going back to at least 1999, were repeatedly brought to the attention of SEC staff, but were never recommended to the commission for action."
What we have here is two stories now developing. One is Madoff and his fraud and whether or not our regulatory system is able to handle something like that. And we're not sure it can. If he was keeping fraudulent books, he may have been able to escape the system.
But the second is did the system fail us, too? In other words, were there two separate things going on? And we're still trying to determine. The language in the statement really suggests that something fell through the cracks and I hope it's only that something fell through the cracks at the SEC, nothing more nefarious that. But they are looking into something serious.
BROWN: Andy, I want to play this for you. I just heard it for the first time today. This is a YouTube clip of Madoff himself saying that nobody could ever sneak a huge scam like he did past government watchdogs. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNARD MADOFF, DEFENDANT: Well, in today's regulatory environment, it's virtually impossible to violate rules. And this is something that the public really doesn't understand. And if you read things in the newspaper and you see somebody violate a rule, you say, well, they're always doing this. But you -- it's impossible for you to go un -- for a violation to go undetected, certainly not for a considerable period of time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: The irony.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDY SERWER, MANAGING EDITOR, "FORTUNE": Yes, he's just so twisted, though. That could actually be a campaign of disinformation.
This is someone who not only cheated investors. He cheated family, friends, charities. He's psychotic, really. And these words aren't too strong. I actually talked to a psychologist about him today and he said this is an individual who is narcissistic, delusions of grandeur, and really a psychopath. He's a financial psychopath, is what he is.
It's very hard to explain with normal behavior.
VELSHI: You have spoken to people, as have I, who were directly invested with him and others who didn't.
SERWER: Right.
VELSHI: And they all said there was something curious about being able to have consistent returns. Andy and I have followed the markets for years on an ongoing basis.
So, there might be something where someone might say I don't know how you do that. Is that entirely above board? So, as Andy says, disinformation. If you can actually go out there and say, no, no, you can't cheat the system, the system is too strong to cheat, so I must be doing honest business.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: And this is the lesson that our viewers, who don't have millions of dollars to invest, should take away. The system is never too smart for people to swindle you.
BROWN: So, go back to the issue of the SEC and their responsibility. I know there's a lot clearly from the statement we don't know yet, but yesterday "The Wall Street Journal" had an editorial that I thought -- I agreed with, frankly, and we talked about on this show last night, which is I was willing to cut the SEC slack for this.
VELSHI: For being underfunded and being a little bit toothless.
BROWN: But, at the same time, if he could pull this off on his own sons, which they claim they weren't aware of it, if he could pull it off under their noses, then how could we then expect the SEC to know what was going on?
SERWER: Well, first of all, I kind of disagree myself, because that's suggesting that it's so difficult to do, Campbell, we shouldn't even try.
I think that the SEC should try. This is a very unique animal. He was the former chairman of Nasdaq. That helped allay suspicions. Also, he was socially friendly with one of the heads of the SEC, Arthur Levitt, who acknowledged that. Probably nothing went on there, except to dispel the idea that this guy might be a crook. In other words, if he's friendly with someone like that...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: So, you think they dropped the ball?
SERWER: I definitely think they dropped the ball. And the SEC has a lot to answer for here. The word that you said, the key word is repeatedly. They repeatedly were -- this was repeatedly brought to their attention.
Meanwhile, they are focusing on Dallas Maverick head Mark Cuban, who did a $700,000 stock trade that they were investigating vigorously. Here we have a multi-multi-billion-dollar fraud that has hurt thousands of investors and they are focusing on the owners of the Dallas Mavericks? What is the SEC doing? It's deploying their resources.
VELSHI: But the SEC has had a long time where they haven't been shown to do the right thing. So I think this shines two pieces of light. One is on Madoff and the fraud and the other one is it's time to give the SEC some teeth and give them a commitment to do the right thing.
BROWN: And a lot more on this story I'm sure will be coming out in the next few days.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Ali Velshi, Andy Serwer, thanks, guys.
And we should mention, Andy, too, that "Fortune"'s annual investors guide newsstands right now. You can also read Andy's extensive coverage of the Madoff mess at Fortune.com.
Thanks, guys.
Still ahead: new developments in the Illinois governor corruption scandal. CNN has learned that Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. has provided confidential information to the U.S. attorney for years. Our Gary Tuchman broke the story. He's going to join us coming up next.
And then, later, Candy Crowley's exclusive interview with President Bush. We will hear the president talk about Barack Obama and that shoe throwing incident. Plus, an unbelievably compelling moment today, an announcement John Walsh of "America's Most Wanted" has wanted for years, for 27 years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: The not knowing is almost as bad as the murder, but today is a good day. Today is a wonderful day. We can end this chapter of our lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Now to the latest strange twist into the investigation into embattled Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. Tonight, we have got new information about the governor's relationship with Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr., who was hoping to take over Barack Obama's Senate seat.
Now, Jackson was dubbed Senate candidate five in the criminal complaint against the governor.
Our Gary Tuchman is in Springfield, Illinois, with the latest information on a story that he broke this afternoon.
And, Gary, I know you have been working sources from Chicago to Washington and you have turned up some pretty stunning information. Tell us about it.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a very interesting and complicated story, Campbell, but here's what we know.
Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr., the son of the civil rights leader, has at least for 10 years given information to federal law enforcement authorities to deal with corruption issues that he sees in his district and in the state of Illinois.
Now, when you hear that word that he gives information, you may think that Jesse Jackson, Jr. has been an informant, and indeed that's what one of the sources close to him told us.
But we're now being informed by sources close to Jesse Jackson Jr. they object to the connotation of the word informant. They say the connotation means that he was told he had to as part of a deal. They say he merely gave information and has helped federal law enforcement authorities. And that is what any good congressman should do.
But what is notable about this is that the information he gave, some of it pertains to Governor Rod Blagojevich, not regarding this particular investigation going on right now. It's a very important point to make.
But back in 2002 according to the spokesman for Jesse Jackson Jr., Jesse Jackson Jr.'s wife, Sandi, wanted a post on the Illinois Lottery Commission as a director. He was informed while Blagojevich was running for governor for the first time that the governor would appreciate a donation of $25,000.
Well, Jesse Jackson Jr. did not give him the $25,000 and his wife didn't get the job. And according to these spokesperson, after Blagojevich became the governor in 2003, he saw Jesse Jackson Jr. and said something to the effect of that $25,000 would have gone a long way.
Now, Jesse Jackson Jr. at that point was reporting, according to his spokesperson, corruption in his district to federal law enforcement officials. He didn't report that, though, at that time. He only reported that conversation with Blagojevich three years later during the trial of infamous developer Tony Rezko, because during that corruption trial, it came up that $25,000 donations were being given to the governor.
It jogged his memory and then according to the spokespeople, Jesse Jackson Jr. told U.S. law enforcement officials about that conversation that could have been a perceived shakedown. So the news is that Jesse Jackson Jr. for at least 10 years had provided information to law enforcement officials, but he stresses that he's not -- quote, unquote -- "an informant" -- Campbell.
BROWN: OK, Gary, so given what you're reporting tonight, I want to play a little bit of what Congressman Jackson had to say just last week about the governor's arrest. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JESSE JACKSON JR. (D), ILLINOIS: I was shocked and saddened to learn that Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich was arrested yesterday by federal law enforcement officials.
If these allegations are proved true, I'm appalled by the pay-to- play schemes hatched at the highest levels of Illinois state government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, Gary, how could Jackson express such disbelief if he knew the governor was under investigation and he had been talking to authorities about other alleged pay-to-play schemes of the governor's?
TUCHMAN: Right.
The thought is from his spokespeople that he felt that at this point with such an important decision to make for the Senate seat, the governor would make a fair decision. But the fact is you have to question that reasoning for someone who allegedly has gone through this before with thinking that his wife may not have gotten a job because of dishonesty why he trusted the governor this time around.
But the fact is, Campbell, by interesting.
BROWN: Right. TUCHMAN: Jesse Jackson Jr., according to his spokesperson, still wants to be U.S. senator.
BROWN: We will see what happens.
Gary Tuchman for us from Illinois with that all information -- Gary, thanks very much.
We have a lot to break down here, so we brought in Jeff Toobin to help us sort of out the legal and also the political issues of this very strange case.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Most states have Democrats and Republicans. Illinois has defendants and informants.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: You're so cynical.
OK, but answer this question. OK, so Congressman Jackson spends last week denying that he had done anything shady to try to get the Illinois Senate seat. Today you have got his allies leaking this information as Gary just reported that he had once secretly funneled information about Governor Blagojevich to federal investigators.
Could this, forgive me for asking, be some amount of damage control here?
TOOBIN: Well, I think it's an attempt to ally him with the good guys and against Blagojevich, because remember the complaint suggests that Blagojevich says that Jackson was kind of trying to ingratiate himself to make a deal for the Senate seat.
Now, we don't know if that's true. Jackson denies it. But that was the suggestion in the complaint.
BROWN: Right.
TOOBIN: So, this week, you can see Jackson's people saying, wait a second, far from trying to ingratiate himself with Blagojevich, he was actually informing on Blagojevich. He was trying to help law enforcement get this guy, not kowtowing to him.
So that's the politics behind this disclosure.
BROWN: So, we will see happens in terms of what actually -- legally how it all plays out.
TOOBIN: Right. Legally, Jackson does not appear to be exposed at all. There's no suggestion that he's a suspect, that he did anything wrong. But...
BROWN: They said he's not a target.
TOOBIN: Right.
But the problem is he's mixed up in this whole situation. And in a Senate seat that it looks like is going to be given by a governor, probably Lieutenant Governor Quinn, he seems like a risky choice at this point. Maybe if he actually runs for the seat, he could make this point openly, but for him being selected, it just seems like a long shot.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: All right, let's talk about Blagojevich's future. He says he's not stepping down. He is going to fight these charges. He is going to fight attempts to impeach him.
Despite all of these incriminating wiretaps, too, there are a lot of people who are saying this is not an open and shut case against him by any means.
TOOBIN: Well, we need to see all the evidence.
But certainly there's an argument that horse-trading, quid pro quos, is how politics work. When you go to a fund-raiser, you hand the candidate a check and you say I want you to fight for low taxes. And he says you bet I will fight for low taxes.
Now, there's nothing corrupt or illegal about that. The question is if the governor says I will only give $8 million in state funds to this children's hospital in return for a campaign contribution, that does look like a illegal quid pro quo. But what is the line between the two? I don't know. I think there is space for an argument at least.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: And that is likely what his defense is going to say.
TOOBIN: If he goes to trial, if he pursues this, yes.
BROWN: Jeff Toobin for us tonight.
TOOBIN: There will be more developments.
BROWN: We can't wait.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: All right.
BROWN: Thank you very much, Jeff. Appreciate it.
In a moment, back to politics, our exclusive interview with President Bush and his praise for Barack Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm amazed to have watched Barack Obama come from basic relative obscurity to now be the -- soon to be the president of the United States. And he gives a lot of people hope, and that's good for the country, genuinely good for the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: President Bush on Obama, on Iraq, on those shoes thrown at him in Iraq -- all that coming up next.
And later, the latest on Caroline Kennedy's chances of getting Hillary Clinton's Senate seat, whispers about a Clinton-Kennedy feud.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We are proud to say that for one of his final farewell TV interviews from the White House, President Bush chose our very own Candy Crowley.
In a wide-ranging, freewheeling talk, Candy asked about the president about many issues, including Iraq and those weapons of mass destruction that were never found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Were you ever angry about it? When you found out -- like, was that moment when you found out?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No weapons?
CROWLEY: No weapons. The intelligence was wrong.
BUSH: Yes.
I think angry is too strong a passion. I was not happy. And I vowed to find out why the intelligence was wrong and then to do something about it, because, one, I respect the intelligence communities. I have got great regard for the people that work at the CIA. And I wanted to make sure the institution was credible, because -- in the future -- because a president is going to have to rely upon the intelligence in order to continue to protect the United States.
And we have worked hard to strengthen the morale, the spirit, and the foundation of our intelligence communities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Candy Crowley joining us right now from Washington.
And, Candy, obviously, this is a time where the president is thinking a lot about his legacy. And it seems his top priority is defending his decision to go to war in Iraq.
CROWLEY: Well, absolutely.
That's how over history one can assume that the Bush legacy will be defined. And that's by the war in Iraq. Now, what surprised me, of course, was that, first of all, he did say in this interview that in 2006, when, of course, he was defending the war and telling the American people that it was going to be all right and that things were moving along, the president admits that in 2006 he had some times when he wondered whether the war was winnable.
He also says that he did have people inside the administration about that time telling him that he ought to start withdrawing troops. He obviously decided differently.
I talked to him again about the intelligence and said that -- mentioned that one of his top aides, Karl Rove, had said, well, if we had known there were no weapons of mass destruction, that al Qaeda was not in fact inside Iraq, that Saddam Hussein didn't have anything to do with 9/11, maybe we would have made a different decision.
I asked him about that from Karl Rove.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: First of all, my dear friend must recognize there are no do-overs. And so the idea of us walking back in time and saying well, this, that or the other is just not a realistic assessment, because, once you're in, you're in for victory.
And I truly believe the world is better off without Saddam Hussein in power. I know we're safer. I know our allies in the Middle East are safer. And I know the Iraqi people are better off without him in power.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And, Candy, I know, in the campaign, Barack Obama, of course, basically ran against Bush, against the Bush record. But, despite, that the president told you he couldn't help but be moved by Obama's victory.
CROWLEY: Absolutely. He saw what many people saw during the course of the campaign as he watched it. He clearly wanted John McCain to win.
But, in the end, when I said to him, do you ever sometimes sit in the Oval Office and think the next person who will sit here is an African-American, and he began to talk about Barack Obama and his inspiration to obviously millions of people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I will have a front row seat and an unbelievable moment in American history.
And I was deeply touched by a lot of the people I saw on election night with tears streaming down their face and saying, I never, ever thought I would see this day coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: And, Candy, I have to say, I watched your interview with the president. And I couldn't help but notice kind of a sweet moment when you first walked into the Oval Office. You can see that there and the hand-holding. It just -- it touched me.
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY: Well, gee, thanks.
You haven't lived until you are standing in the middle of the Oval Office about to conduct an interview and think, the president of the United States is holding my hand in the Oval Office.
It so kind of threw me that I was -- I sort of forgot to ask him a question as we first walked in, because I thought, what am I going to do with this? I got e-mails from friends, saying: OK, that's a first. I never got to hold hands with George Bush in the Oval Office.
So, it reminded me a little bit, I must say, Ronald Reagan used to do that. He would have these after-work sessions sometimes with four or five reporters. And if there was someone female in the room, he would almost always come over to you and take your hand and show you something.
So, it was reminiscent of that, but it did really sort of knock me off stride when I first walked in, sort of thinking about it. And with the president, I think it's also that there is some nostalgia going on here. I first covered him in his first term as governor when he was thinking about running for president, covered his reelection for governor and then of course his campaign.
And so that goes back a while. And I think there is something going on there with the nostalgia. He talked about, well, the last this and the last that.
I haven't interviewed him for eight years. So, I think that triggered a lot in him in some way and that there is, when he talks about doing the last Christmas here or going to see the troops for the last time, that he's incredibly nostalgic and that may have fit into it.
But, boy, it -- there's no real response to that.
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY: It was interesting.
BROWN: All right, Candy Crowley for us tonight -- Candy.
And we should mention to you President Bush had more to say about those shoes thrown at him in Iraq. We will play that for you when we come back.
Also ahead, the case for and against Caroline Kennedy. Should she be named to the Senate? What is Hillary Clinton saying about all of this? And the Adam Walsh missing person case, opened July 1981, solved finally today -- for Adam's father, closure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: For 27 years, we have been asking, who could take a 6- year-old boy and murder him and decapitate him? Who? We needed to know. We needed to know.
And, today, we know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A lot of other news to bring you up to speed on now. Randi Kaye here with tonight's "Briefing" -- Randi.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're going to take you to Canada first. We have this story just in from western Canada where a ski resort gondola power snapped sending one car of the gondola over a creek and dropping two others to the ground. All the cars were close to the ground at the time.
This is happening at the Whistler Blackcomb resort that's just north of Vancouver. At least five people have gone to the hospital. Their injuries are not considered serious.
A terrible bus crash in Israel has killed at least 24 Russian tourists. Police say a bus driver tried to pass another bus on the way to a Red Sea resort. He lost control crashing through a metal barrier and down a 200-foot ravine.
Five sticks of dynamite were found today inside a chic Paris department store. The store was evacuated while the bomb squad removed the TNT. It was not rigged to blow up. A group sent letters to the press claiming responsibility and demanding French troops leave Afghanistan.
And some kids just can't wait for Christmas. Now watch carefully here.
In the middle of the night, this 4-year-old Texas boy, well, he wandered across the street from his home, tried to get into a family dollar store. If at first you don't succeed, well, you try and try again.
Somebody left one of the front doors unlocked. That tripped the silent alarm. And when police showed up, well, what do you think they found this child doing? What else but playing with toys.
Christmas came early for him.
BROWN: Unbelievable.
KAYE: I guess he went to Christmas. BROWN: Yes. Apparently so. Randi -- Randi Kaye, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
In a moment, President Bush steps up to talk about those flying shoes. He got off light but a top White House staffer not so lucky. We're going to show you how it changed the familiar face in Washington.
And the way he's going Barack Obama may try to put Michael Jordan in his cabinet. Find out why in the "Political Daily Briefing."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: For the second day in a row, protesters turned out across Iraq demanding the immediate release of the journalist who hurled his shoes at President Bush. The man remains behind bars but may appear in a Baghdad courtroom as early as tomorrow. In the Arab world, shoe tossing is the ultimate insult and the journalist's active defiance has turned him into a folk hero.
In his exclusive interview with our Candy Crowley today, the president downplayed the incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: First of all, it's got to be the one of the most weird moments of my presidency. Here I am getting ready to answer questions from a free press in a democratic Iraq and a guy stands up and throws a shoe. And it was -- it was bizarre. And it was an interesting way for a person to express himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The incident left presidential press secretary Dana Perino with a black eye. She was hit by a microphone in a scuffle that followed the shoe tossing. And, of course, this is all a bonanza for the late night comics. Here's what they had to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, "THE LATE NIGHT SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": As a bit of a press conference when he was over there for his farewell thing and the guy's hopping. It's pretty good, though. He -- I don't think Bush really has dodged anything like that, well, since the Vietnam War.
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": Did you see what President Bush did? Did you see what he did though to keep from being hit? It's something he's never done before -- leaned to the left. He's never done that.
CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH CONAN O'BRIEN": That is the most impressive thing I've ever seen him do. It's fantastic. He's an older man. I spent years here making jokes about the guy. I thought I should find out just how hard is that. So I want to try it out right now.
Just go for it. Come on, man. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That's pretty good.
Still ahead this evening when we come back, a spirited debate. Is she or is she not qualified? Our panel's take on Caroline Kennedy and we'll look at whether or not the Clintons could stand in her way.
And then later, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and the most questions they've answered in one day since the election. And you can see these questions didn't come from reporters.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The latest now in Caroline Kennedy's quest to become New York's next U.S. senator. A spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid confirms to CNN that Reid personally called New York Governor David Paterson and urged him to appoint Kennedy to the seat being vacated by Hillary Clinton. Now Kennedy supported Barack Obama in the democratic primary battle and some Clinton supporters haven't forgotten that, and they've been pretty critical of her. That has led to some whispers of the Kennedy-Clinton feud. Is there anything to it?
We're going to talk about that with our panel now. We've got three of the most connected political insiders around with us tonight. CNN political analyst Roland Martin, CNN contributor Hilary Rosen, political director of "The Huffington Post" Web site, and CNN political contributor and Republican strategist, Bay Buchanan.
Hey, guys.
BAY BUCHANAN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Hi. How are you doing, Campbell?
HILARY ROSEN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hi, Campbell.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: How are you doing?
BROWN: Great.
Hilary, let me start with you. Today Politico.com reporting Hillary Clinton is telling her supporters to back off, stay out of Caroline Kennedy's way but publicly she hasn't really rushed to Kennedy's defense necessarily. Should we be reading anything into that?
ROSEN: You know, actually I don't think so. She -- Caroline Kennedy have gotten into this a little bit late and I think that Hillary had sort of already thought that some of her other friends and colleagues might have been good for the job. You know, she was enthusiastic about Kirsten Gillibrand and Randi Weingarten, a couple members of Congress.
I don't think that there's much -- it was an against Caroline thing. I think it was just that she had sort of gotten enthusiastic about other people first.
BROWN: And she would have known, in your view, questions about Kennedy's qualifications which is what you've been hearing, grumblings about from a lot of people.
ROSEN: You know, I think people grumbling about her qualifications is sort of code for hey, how did she get in the front of the line? And, you know, we obviously have leaders that get to public office all sorts of ways not just through previous elected office. So my guess is that that's just grumbling not real questioning about whether she can do the job.
BROWN: And a hearty laugh from Roland. And what do you make of this, Roland?
MARTIN: Well, Campbell, can we remind all of these radical Clinton supporters what qualifications did Senator Clinton have when she sought the job? She was a first lady, a lawyer. She was focused on children's issues. That's all she had then.
Caroline Kennedy is qualified. The U.S. constitution has three requirements: 30 years old, live in the state for nine years, live in the U.S. for nine years, and you must be a resident of the state when elected. That's it. Everything else is subjective.
BUCHANAN: You know, Roland, I'll tell you what Hillary Clinton had that she doesn't. Hillary Clinton was elected to the position. She convinced the people of New York she's the one, and she won it fair enough.
But this woman, I've looked at her resume. Caroline Kennedy I'm sure is a delightful woman, but there's no heavy lifting on that resume. And it's completely outrageous. She wouldn't be in the top 20 for candidates to be appointed to this job if it weren't for her name.
MARTIN: Hey, Bay.
BUCHANAN: That is it. This is --
BROWN: Roland, Roland --
MARTIN: Guess what -- guess what, Bay? When Hillary Clinton -- when Hillary Clinton when she chose to run for the Senate, guess who dropped out? Nita Lowey, a congresswoman for ten years.
BUCHANAN: She chose to.
MARTIN: She jumped past her. A lot of members of Congress. Here's the whole deal. The bottom line is this here.
There are many people who can serve in the U.S. Senate. You don't have to be an elected official. There are people who are lawyers, who are doctors...
BROWN: All right. OK, Roland.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: ... and teachers who don't have to have --
BROWN: Roland. Hey guys, hold on. Hold on.
Roland, won't some people say Caroline Kennedy is showing though -- and this is a fair question -- a sense of entitlement here? She's been fiercely private her entire life, something the press has respected, and now all of a sudden she decides she wants to be a senator and in many people's view she jumps to the front of the line.
MARTIN: No, it's not entitlement. First of all, who says she's jumping to the front of the line? She's expressing an interest. The governor, David Paterson, it is his responsibility to name. He can pick anybody who he wants to.
She has a right to say I want to go for this job. That's no big deal. What's wrong with that?
BUCHANAN: Absolutely. Absolutely. She has a right to ask for it, but Governor Paterson has an obligation to the people, first of all, to his party to look at who the people who have spent their good chunk of their lives committed to public service trying to change things for the better for the people of New York. And you're going to throw this out. She has done of this. She showed no interest whatsoever.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: What do you mean?
BROWN: All right. Hold on. You know --
Let Hilary jump in here.
Hilary, voters do have -- I mean, they don't have any idea really where she stands on almost any issue because she has -- you know, because she shouldn't have any reason to. She just has no public voting record.
Should she in your view put out some kind of platform sheet, explain how she would go.
ROSEN: Well, it is a little odd. It's a little odd. You know, Roland's point is that she has a voting constituency of one, Governor Paterson. It is a little bit odd that she went out and hired a campaign manager. That's a little bit strange. That hasn't really been done before. What she needs to do is convince Governor Paterson, and I think he has every right and I expect him to start to ask her, her positions on issues. And if she's going to do a campaign, yes, she probably needs to come forward and talk a little bit about what she stands for.
But again, it's a voting constituency of one. And, you know, my sources tell me that Governor Paterson is very uncertain about this and that he is asking other people in this that are being considered not to drop out. That he wants to have a group of choices here.
BUCHANAN: And Campbell --
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Go ahead, Bay.
BUCHANAN: In New York -- New York is the financial center of this nation. We have an incredible economic crisis. He could choose somebody who really has some knowledge and insight to come to the Senate as a powerful leader to help give new fresh ideas and lead this country out of this mess, instead of somebody who is completely clueless and can no more represent middle class --
MARTIN: No, no, no.
BROWN: Quickly, Roland, you get the last word.
MARTIN: Campbell, here's a woman who has raised significant amounts of money to do with public education in New York...
BUCHANAN: OK, there you go.
MARTIN: ... national issue. Also -- Bay, also author of the bill of rights and privacy.
You know what, that's a critical issue when you look at the Patriot Act. Do not dismiss the work that she has done. She's been involved in public service. Public service does not mean just being an elected office holder, Bay.
BUCHANAN: I know that very well.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: OK. On that note, guys, we're wrapping it up. Goodbye.
Roland, Hilary, Bay, thank you very much. Appreciate your time. Glad everybody ends with a big smile. Thanks, guys. Thank you.
Coming up next, we're going on a much more serious note, shift gears here and talk about the Adam Walsh case. This is a 27-year-old crime that changed the way police everywhere deal with cases involving missing children. And we're going to hear from his father, John Walsh, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Sad to say, obviously, but there have always been missing children. But in our time the disappearance of 6-year-old Adam Walsh from a Florida department store in July 1981 brought the nightmare of missing children front and center. It also made a public figure and a public advocate of Adam's father, John Walsh. And today after 27 years the case of little Adam Walsh was finally closed.
Randi Kaye is back with the final chapter of this really heartbreaking story.
KAYE: This is really a tough story to cover. Very tough for the family indeed, Campbell.
It is the end of a murder mystery that John Walsh says left him spiraling into hell. You could feel his anguish as he spoke during a press conference in Florida late this afternoon. He and his wife, Reve Walsh, have been waiting 27 years for police to solve their son's murder. 6-year-old Adam Walsh was abducted from a Florida mall and murdered back in July, 1981.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN WALSH, ADAM WALSH'S FATHER: For 27 years, we've been asking who could take a 6-year-old boy and murder him and decapitate him? Who? We needed to know. We needed to know. And today we know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Now they know it was Ottis Toole, a drifter and convicted serial killer. He died in prison in 1996 while serving for an unrelated crime. Decades ago, Toole confessed to the crime twice then recanted before he died in prison. Toole had actually showed investigators where he took Adam Walsh at the mall, and he even drove them to the canal where the boy's severed head was found. But they never charged him.
They had tested blood-stained carpet from Toole's car, but DNA wasn't so sophisticated back then and they couldn't say for sure the blood was Adam's. So why close the case now?
Chief Chad Wagner joined the department last year and promised to review the evidence with an open mind and concluded it was Ottis Toole.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REVE WALSH, ADAM WALSH'S MOTHER: Listening to the words that came off of Chief Wagner's lips just penetrate my soul.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Wagner said there wasn't one magic piece of evidence that convinced him. If Toole were alive today, though, John Walsh says he wouldn't want revenge. He believes Toole is somewhere getting just what he deserves. For Walsh, losing his son changed his life forever. He's a hotel marketing executive turned crusader for missing children. He hosts "America's Most Wanted" and also co-founded the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. The center has found more than 130,000 children.
On this, the end of a long and painful journey, John Walsh had this advice for parents of other missing children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN WALSH, ADAM WALSH'S FATHER: It's not about closure. That picture of that little boy will always be apparent of that murder of a little boy. It's about justice. And for all the other victims who haven't gotten justice, I say one thing. Don't give up hope. Don't give up hope.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And, Randi, over the years police had looked at other possible suspects, right?
KAYE: They had, including one man who John Walsh says was having an affair with his wife, Reve. That man did take a polygraph test and passed. Police also actually looked at the Walshes themselves. They too took polygraphs and past. And even Jeffrey Dahmer's name came up.
The serial killer, Jeffrey Dahmer, he apparently was living in the area at the time and was also driving a blue van for work which some of the witnesses had said had been seen at the abduction site. But it always came back to Ottis Toole.
BROWN: And the police chief also talked today about some sloppy police work over the years.
KAYE: Yes. He said there were lapses in the investigation. He apologized to the family. He said at one point apparently the bloody carpet and the car itself, Ottis Toole's car itself back in 1994 when they were going back for more DNA evidence, was missing. They couldn't find the evidence -- the car and the carpet. So he did make some apologies for that.
BROWN: Randi Kaye for us tonight. Tough story. Randi, thanks very much.
I want to turn now to our legal expert, Lisa Bloom, who's the anchor of "In Session" on truTV and she has followed this case for a very long time. I know, Lisa.
And let me just play a little bit more of what John Walsh had to say today earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN WALSH, ADAM WALSH'S FATHER: We changed the way we do business and look for missing children after Adam and police all over the world have. So, you know, Reve and I tried very hard to make sure Adam didn't die in vain. Today this is a reaffirmation of the fact that he didn't die in vain, that beautiful little boy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Is that true in many ways? And talk to me about the lasting impact from this case. Is it pretty profound?
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, "IN SESSION": Well, the work that John Walsh has done alone has made a profound impact in the way that we view missing children.
You know, Campbell, when Adam went missing, the FBI would not even look for him because there was no evidence that he was kidnapped. Law enforcement used to traditionally take three days before they would begin a search for a missing child. All of that has changed dramatically because of John Walsh and because of this case.
Police will look immediately for a missing child. Because of the Adam Walsh act, we have a national database now of convicted child molesters. We have AMBER alerts. We have Megan laws. I mean, our entire approach to missing children has changed. There's also a huge increase in the number of missing children reported over 800,000 a year now, about 150,000 a year at the time that Adam went missing.
BROWN: Can we say because of all these things that you just mentioned, you know, the sex offender registries, kids with cell phones in school that are kids are safer today?
BLOOM: It's a very hard question to answer, Campbell, because the increase in reporting does not necessarily reflect an increase in incidents. You know, these are the kinds of things, abusive children, exploitation of children that often are not reported and by far the largest number of children who are abducted are done so by their own parents usually in a custody battle and sometimes those numbers are not reported.
So I really can't tell you whether we are safer now. I think we're a lot more cautious now than parents were a generation ago. You know, Adam Walsh went to play a video game at the age of six just around the corner from where his mom was shopping in the same store. Most parents wouldn't allow a 6 year old to do that now.
BROWN: All right. Lisa Bloom for us tonight. Lisa, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
BLOOM: Thank you.
BROWN: When we come back, we've got our "Bull's-Eye" ahead. Also coming up, Barack Obama's other news conference today. He took lots of more questions from these kids than he ever does from reporters. What's going on with that?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In this season of giving, tonight's "Bull's-Eye" is all about giving back. Over the weekend, holiday wreaths, 10,000 of them, were placed on graves at Arlington National Cemetery. In all, more than 100,000 wreaths went to veteran cemeteries across the country all because of one man, Merle Wooster, owner of the Wooster Wreath Company in Harrington, Maine. He's been doing this for 16 years to honor our nation's heroes.
This year the secretary of Veterans Affairs gave him a special commendation and called him a source of inspiration. We think so, too.
Coming up, an apology from the wife of Illinois' embattled governor. Find out why she's sorry in tonight's "Political Daily Briefing."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Dana Milbank here tonight with today's "Political Daily Briefing."
And, Dana, President-elect Obama announced another cabinet member today. And some people are starting to notice a bit of a trend here, aren't they?
DANA MILBANK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, it's true. He chose the Chicago school's chief, Arne Duncan, to be education secretary, and he wasted no time getting to the man's real credentials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I just wanted to dispel one rumor before I take questions. I did not select Arne because he's one of the best basketball players I know, although I will say that I think we are putting together the best basketball playing cabinet in American history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MILBANK: There's no question Obama is suiting up an impressive starting five. Duncan played professional basketball in Australia. National security adviser James Jones played at Georgetown. And incoming Attorney General Eric Holder and U.N. ambassador Susan Rice, like Obama, played high school ball. And I think this team should be able to end the war in Iraq and the recession by halftime.
BROWN: All right, Dana. I also understand that Obama apparently held a second press conference today.
MILBANK: Yes. He gave two press conferences. One was for the press. The other was for some school children. And I don't have to tell you that the kids got more questions and, of course, they got the much better answers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: You guys may have heard one of the things I promised was to get a dog. So because they've been asking for a dog for years now but I'm not sure that they are -- Joe Biden just got a dog. So I want to make sure that my daughters do what I'm sure Joe is going to be doing, which is to make sure that you take care of your dog.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Important stuff there, Dana.
MILBANK: Very important.
BROWN: I'm glad we got that sound bite out of the president- elect today.
Finally, tonight on another topic, while most of us blast e-mails back and forth all day, you have found that the art of letter writing lives on. What's it all about?
MILBANK: Yes, this is a real silver lining of more business for the post office. We've got former House Speaker Newt Gingrich sending a letter to the Republican National Committee complaining about the party's web video linking Obama to Blagojevich.
One person who is likely to agree with him, Patti Blagojevich, who wrote a letter of her own to her neighbors apologizing for any inconvenience this media circus in the area may have caused. She's hoping it will subside soon. That's not terribly likely, I must say.
BROWN: People don't like satellite trucks in their front yard, huh?
MILBANK: True enough.
BROWN: All right, Dana, thanks a lot.
That's it for us.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
