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Nancy Grace

Evidence at Anthony Home Reportedly Tied to Remains Location

Aired December 17, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES": Incredible! Nancy has the very latest in the Caylee Anthony case. NANCY GRACE starts right now.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. We are waiting for a formal announcement, expected at any moment, officially declaring a child`s remains to be that of little Caylee.

At this hour, police and forensic experts still on the scene for skeletal remains believed to be Caylee found in a heavily-wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home, reports that experts now working off a tooth and a hair found at the scene, this after a utility meter reader stumbles on a garbage bag and a human skull, a tiny human skull, literally rolls out, the skull apparently covered in long, light-colored hair, still intact because of thick industrial duct tape wrapped around the child`s tiny head.

And contrary to what police earlier said, clothes were found inside the trash bag. Is this why cops are so sure it`s Caylee? Deputies still - - repeat, still -- digging, searching, even sifting through buckets of dirt for more remains. We have confirmed tiny bones still being found scattered along the same location as the skull.

Tonight, bombshell. Reports surface items seized during a late night search of the Anthony home now positively linked to evidence at the crime scene. What was found in or around that trash bag? Late reports confirm little Caylee`s sheets were seized by police. Why?

The jailhouse calls in a local pastor to speak with the tot mom behind bars as the case closes in around her. Federal experts still working around the clock to ID the child`s remains at the FBI lab, Quantico. And what has become of grandparents George and Cindy`s request for complete immunity? Tonight, are these scattered remains all that`s left of little Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking developments in the case of 3-year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators say the FBI`s evidence response team and county CSI workers are still finding evidence in the palmettos, brush and dirt that they piled up along the road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to reports, something found inside the Anthony home during an execution of a search warrant has been linked to evidence found at the remains site, which is less than half a mile from the home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We continue to make additional discoveries here at the site, continue to gather that information, gather that property and continue to label and properly address that in order that it can be booked into our evidence section and continue to process the scene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives have not revealed what the evidence is, but were initially led to the Anthony home after significant findings were made in the area where the skull and other bones were found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This site is going to dictate the importance of what we`ve recovered, how much we`ve recovered and the determination by our investigators, the crime scene technicians, as well as the experts in their disciplines coming in, speaking with our investigating and making the determination how much longer do they need to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As investigators continue to sift through dirt for more physical evidence, tot mom Casey Anthony remains behind bars, awaiting her trial on capital murder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pastor Shane Stutzman has been meeting with mother Casey Anthony since she was first arrested in July, a month after anyone last saw her daughter, Caylee, alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) specifics (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While the Pastor Stutzman says he`s bound to keep secrets Casey may tell him confidential, he admits she needs all the help she can get.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, breaking news in the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Stunning details continue to emerge from the crime scene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New details emerge in the case of missing 3-year- old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. Items seized from the Anthony home have reportedly been linked to evidence discovered at the scene where a skull and other remains were found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are continuing to sift through the wooded area and recovering significant finds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators executed a search warrant at the home after something of interest found at the remains site led them to the home, less than half a mile from where the remains were discovered. Investigators continue to search the area for clues, looking through dirt and branches at the scene for additional evidence. A sheriff`s office spokesperson says that authorities plan to stay at the active crime scene until at least tomorrow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We expected that it might have been late this afternoon that this scene might have been able to be cleared. As we continue to discover items on the scene, we will continue to hold the scene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meanwhile, the Orange County medical examiner and FBI forensic experts continue testing on the remains, hoping to get an official identification any moment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony received a visit from her pastor yesterday and maintains her innocence in her daughter`s disappearance.

CASEY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S MOTHER: Dad, I can`t care about all this other stuff. I mean, I don`t care about the media. I don`t care about what people have been saying about me. That doesn`t matter because I know it`s not true and everyone that knows me knows it isn`t true. All I want is Caylee home, but I want to be there when she comes home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. What`s the latest?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, the latest is we`re waiting for this press conference where Orange County detectives are going to tell us who these remains belong to. You know, what they said they`re going to do is they`ll tell the parents. Immediately after that, they`ll hold a press conference. They did hold a press conference this afternoon, and everybody`s waiting on pins and needles, thinking that this is the one. It turned out that it wasn`t.

Also, we got confirmation today that items at the crime scene have been connected to the house. So there is some connection between the house and this crime scene. Also, the state confirmed today that there was clothing found at that crime scene inside that plastic trash bag where the remains were also found.

GRACE: And Natisha Lance, standing by at the location where the remains were discovered, what can you tell me about a sheet of little Caylee`s bed being taken from the Anthony home during that late-night search?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, I spoke to the former spokesperson, Michelle Bart (ph), today, and she told me there were previous reports saying that pillow cases were taken from the home. She said, actually, no pillow cases were taken from the home. All of them have been accounted for. However, Caylee`s sheets were taken from the home in that search by police.

GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Why? Why the sheets off Caylee`s bed?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Nancy, there had been talk that the body had been wrapped in a sheet inside that plastic bag. There also could be some kind of trace evidence, try to match that up. You can look on the label of the sheet, go back and find out where it was purchased, when it was purchased.

You know, this could be a big break in this case, you know, but we`re just still awaiting, number one, the identification from the FBI lab in Quantico, and now they`re also working on building that homicide case against Casey Anthony.

GRACE: And Nikki Pierce with WDBO, what can you tell me about the jailhouse calling in a pastor to meet with the tot mom behind bars?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Well, as we heard, when she first heard the information on Thursday, she -- according to some sources, she had a bit of a meltdown and requested a sedative. She was just removed from psychological observation, which we hear is not the same as a suicide watch. But when she was, the first day that she was removed from that psychological observation, they called in a pastor from the church where they`ve been holding the vigils for little Caylee every week.

GRACE: And I want to clarify something, Nikki Pierce. The tot mom did not request a pastor to come. The jail asked for him to come, correct?

PIERCE: Correct. That`s correct.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Renee Rockwell, veteran defense attorney, and Mickey Sherman, famed defense attorney out of LA tonight, the author of "How Can You Defend Those People?" The pastor has already made statements to the press, none of them divulging what the tot mom said behind bars. But I`m telling you, Mickey Sherman, there`s no way she cracked and told the preacher anything.

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, we should -- we`re not going to know it and we`re not supposed to know it. There`s a priest-penitent privilege. When you talk to a priest or a pastor, it`s not supposed to be divulged to anybody, authorities or anyone else. That`s the obligation of the pastor.

GRACE: Renee?

SHERMAN: And if he does it...

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right. It is the pastor`s obligation, but the pastor cannot waive that. The only person that can waive that privilege is the defendant, Nancy.

GRACE: We are waiting for a formal announcement expected at any moment, officially declaring these remains to be those of little Caylee. Reports surfacing from the location that experts are currently working off a tooth and a hair found at the scene.

Now, in an unusual twist -- back to Natisha Lance, our producer there at the location -- it turns out this was a frequent hang-out of Casey Anthony`s. In fact, she used this area as a pet cemetery.

LANCE: That`s correct, Nancy. According to her friend, Kio Marie (ph), this is a place that they actually called "the zone," and they would go hang out there, eat, hang out with friends, possibly smoke. And she said that this is a place where Casey actually went and buried her hamster and kids in the neighborhood would use this area as a pet cemetery of sorts.

GRACE: I`m going to go to a special guest joining me tonight, Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner out of Broward County. He is the author of "When to Call the Doctor." Dr. Perper, thank you for being with us.

DR. JOSHUA PERPER, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, BROWARD COUNTY: You`re welcome.

GRACE: Do you believe the medical examiner will determine that this is, in fact, a homicide? And why?

PERPER: Well, that`s my opinion, that he will do so in view of the fact that the body or the skeletonized remains show this tape on the face, which clearly indicated that the child was assaulted. And therefore, she had this tape when she was alive and when she died and after that. So this, in conjunction with a circumstantial story, with the lies of the mother, with the proximity of finding the body so close to the house, and the additional evidence, I think that amounts to a clear evidence of homicide. And I`m sure that the medical examiner would make that determination.

GRACE: A very important question, Dr. Perper. Would the skeletonization of the remains be consistent with the time the child disappeared? Can you look at the degree of skeletonization and determine when the child was dumped, when this body was dumped?

PERPER: Yes, it`s possible to do it within a reasonable range of time. And in this particular case, we know for sure when the child disappeared. So that`s going to be quite -- quite feasible and relatively easy.

GRACE: And to Natisha Lance, standing by where the remains were located. In court, it was stated that a portion of these bones would be macerated. Explain.

LANCE: Yes. It was indicated that three inches of these bones would actually end up being destroyed so that they could do the toxicology testing, and the maceration process would also go into that.

GRACE: And isn`t it true, in maceration, any flesh or soft tissue would be taken off the bone, Natisha?

LANCE: That is correct. However, the county attorney said that if there is any flesh on these bones, they will be -- go through this maceration process.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: We`ve got to get that little girl back in any way we can. And we`re doing everything we can.

CASEY ANTHONY: My only concern -- I gave Lee a statement. I want him to speak to whoever, the media, give them a statement specifically from me. He`s going to give them an exact quote. She`s my only concern.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: They can take our whole house down. They can level it. They can dig a big hole. I don`t care what they want. Caylee`s not there.

GEORGE ANTHONY: You want to take the shingles off the roof, I don`t care. You do what you need to do to bring my granddaughter back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Items seized from the Anthony home have reportedly been linked to evidence discovered at the scene where a skull and other remains were found.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An attorney for the Anthonys says the family is waiting for that absolute confirmation and praying, even though all signs point that it`s Caylee Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The last six months have been the hardest six months of our lives, and we understand that the ongoing investigation and prosecution of our daughter, Casey, will consume our lives with conflict."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) from the beginning, we`ve been very thorough with this. And whoever this child may be -- and of course, we`re all assuming that it`s Caylee -- and, you know, that we want to be thorough and we want to make sure that we do things right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: As we go to air tonight, we are awaiting a press conference, officially declaring these remains to be that of little Caylee Anthony, the remains found just 15 homes -- 15 homes away from where the Anthonys live.

I want to go back to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO radio. We know they have a skull. We know that hair is attached with duct tape. That is enough to make a positive ID on dental records alone. What are they waiting on?

PETRIMOULX: It`s hard to say exactly what they`re doing there, but we also -- I`d like to add that there`s been reports that they`re also using a tooth from the scene that they found, along with the hair, and they`re using all that at the FBI labs to try to make an ID on this body. Like you said, we`re expecting this press conference any second now. It could happen tomorrow. They said that they`ll be at the scene still tomorrow. But you know, any time they call a press conference, that could be it.

GRACE: I want to go to Marc Klaas, the founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. He is a victims` rights advocate and a friend of our show. He is also a crime victim. His daughter, Polly, went missing of her own home many years ago and was murdered.

Marc Klaas, thank you for being with us. Marc, a lot of people have suggested the police somehow screwed up because the body was so close to the home and they didn`t find it. I disagree. What`s your take?

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, my take is probably very similar to yours. When they were told about that location where the body was ultimately found, that this was some place that Casey used to like to hang out, they went to that area, and it was covered in water. And in fact, they brought cadaver dogs to that area then and later in September. But still, there was too much water covering the area, so the cadaver dogs were unable to get a positive hit.

Now, I would further suggest that if they had been more aggressive in their search for evidence in that area, and if they had, say, dredged that particular area, they could have easily destroyed the very fragile evidence that ultimately is going to resolve the case. So I think that law enforcement and all of the search teams that were involved have done exactly the right thing.

GRACE: Well, Marc, I think the evidence is bearing out what you`re just pointing out is correct because if they are truly working off one tooth, that means that the remains have been so scattered, all the other teeth are missing, they have not been found, if that report is correct.

And to Natisha Lance, standing by at that location, what can you tell me about clothing in the bag?

LANCE: Well, according to a report, there was clothing found in the bag. Now, this is very contradictory to what Sheriff Kevin Beary had said a few days ago, saying that there was no clothing, but this new report says that there was clothing actually found in this bag.

GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter who`s been on the case from the beginning, actually helped to look for little Caylee. He is also there at the location where the skull was found. Weigh in, Leonard.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, the clothing, according to my understanding, was a small swimsuit and part of a dress. Now, one of the other things that`s happened is the little critters have gotten in there and they`ve torn the bag. They`ve taken the little bones and everything and scattered them over an area that`s probably three quarter of an acre to an acre.

And the thing about it is, like Marc just said, it`s a good thing they called off any further searching in there or any dredging because it`s bad enough that the animals have scattered the remains. One of the things that they do in a situation like this is they want to get as many of the remains because eventually, the body will be turned over to the family and they don`t want to just have a couple of bones that they did DNA testing on and forget about the rest of it. They want to do a complete job.

And that`s what they`re doing. They`re being very, very methodical about it. And sometimes, like the spokesperson for Baez, who doesn`t obviously know what`s going on out here -- they make comments about the sheriff taking too long or they`re digging too deep a hole, or something like that. He doesn`t understand they`ve got 40 people back there. They know what they`re doing. They`re very precise.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Brandy in Michigan. Hi, Brandy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question was, over the last week or so, there has been a lot of talk about sheets and pillow cases and brushes being seized from the home. Right after that, the grandparents asked for immunity. Has anyone said anything about maybe duct tape being found in the home that could match the duct tape wrapped around the skull?

GRACE: Drew Petrimoulx, don`t you imagine that`s one of the things police were searching for?

PETRIMOULX: Right. And we know they removed a bunch of items from the house. It`s interesting, also, that came out today, is a Facebook posting that came from Casey Anthony to her friend, Amy Huizinga. It happened on May 26. I`ll read to you word for word. It says, "You lost my duct tape. I was excited to have so much left. That`s why I" -- I think she meant that`s what I get for giving you my purse.

So it`s another interesting thing. She was talking about duct tape on that day. Is that the same duct tape that was found at this scene? You know, we`re just waiting to see.

GRACE: OK. To psychologist Caryn Stark. How many red flags does she have to wave at me before I demand the state seek the death penalty? Here she is going on Facebook, talking about duct tape?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Nancy, I mean, it`s not just even that. It`s all the other things that they`re finding and the fact that this woman has just been denying everything that happened. So this is truly the signs of somebody who`s guilty, and I think that`s what you`re recognizing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY: Hey, gorgeous, how`re you doing?

CASEY ANTHONY: I look like hell!

GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, you know something? You really need to keep your spirit high for all this.

CASEY ANTHONY: I have. I haven`t been crying while I`ve been in here.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, you know something?

CASEY ANTHONY: Trying to read books and do other things to keep my mind off of stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: 911, what`s your emergency?

CINDY ANTHONY: I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I know my mom will never forgive me. I`m never going to forgive myself because there`s that chance that I might not see Caylee again, and I don`t want to think about that.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An Orange County water meter reader went into the wooded area just off the road to go to the bathroom and stumbled upon a child`s remains. He saw a plastic bag, picked it up and the child`s skull rolled out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: In my gut, she`s still OK, and it still feels like she`s -- she`s close to home.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: And in my hand, just released is a press release by the defense camp, criticizing police for not rushing the scene and getting out of there so they can come in. You know, that`s really the last thing the sheriffs need at this point, Leonard Padilla.

PADILLA: Well, one of the things that I`ve maintained is that this department is one of the top 10 I`ve ever run into. And you`ve got to say that John Allen has knowledge of how to do this. Whatever the spokesperson for Baez`s defense team is saying, he`s wrong. The man that`s in charge of this here is John Allen. He`s doing a great job. He`s not rushing it because if he rushed it, then somebody would say, Well, you know, we found a bone afterwards.

GRACE: You know, to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. What do you make with these ridiculous announcements from the defense? Trying to rush them? They`re out there trying to find every tiny bone, every tooth, every scintilla of evidence linked to Caylee.

BROOKS: Oh, it`s ridiculous, Nancy. It`s just -- it`s just a ploy on them. I used to be one of the team leaders for the team that`s out there right now, the FBI`s evidence response team, and I can tell you, there is no hurry. We take our time. We do the right thing, dot all the T`s (SIC) and cross all the -- dot all the I`s and cross all the T`s, Nancy, period.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your gut feeling up until this point is something is not right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, it`s June 16th. That`s the last time that I saw my daughter and granddaughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there has been a dead body in the damn car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got arrested on a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) whim today. Because they blamed me for stuff that I never would do, that I didn`t do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had someone call us and tell us a shovel was borrowed on a day that -- in close proximity to where the child missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone has researching how to make chloroform on Casey Anthony`s home computer around the time Caylee went missing. Lab tests have shown high levels of chloroform in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car.

UNIDENTIIFED MALE: We had high hopes of finding her alive, and that hope is somewhat diminished.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love her dearly, and I want nothing more than for her to come home and to be safe. And to be where she belongs, with her family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Orange County utilities emergency dispatch. We`ve found a human skull.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know.

And it`s right off of Suburban and Chickasaw in the Caylee Anthony area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the first time Casey has had an anxiety attack, and asked for sedatives.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wish none of this would have ever happened. I really wish that none of this would have ever happened.

(END VIDOE CLIP)

GRACE: We are waiting for a formal announcement, as we go to air tonight, that these remains are Littlecaylee. By now, certainly dental records or even DNA matches may have been made. We are waiting for that press conference to go down. We expect it at any moment, officially declaring this to be Littlecaylee.

At that time, we also predict a reevaluation by the district attorney`s office as to whether they will seek the death penalty in this case. The child`s skull found with hair still attached, bound in thick industrial-strength duct tape. Just 15 homes away from the Anthony home. I want to go out to the lawyers. We`re taking your calls live. To Renee Rockwell, Atlanta. Mickey Sherman, L.A.

Could you explain to me, first to you, Mickey Sherman, apparently the grandparents are still sticking with the nanny did it story? Zani the Nanny, Zenaida Gonzalez. How is it that Zani the Nanny got into the home, got the child`s sheet, wrapped her up in it, and then buried her, coincidentally, in the same place that mom Casey Anthony buried her pets?

SHERMAN: Well, they don`t know. And they don`t have to know. They don`t have to give the answers. All they know is that their granddaughter is missing, their granddaughter is under indictment for murder, and they`re beside themselves.

GRACE: I`m not talking about the grandparents. I`m talking about you as a defense attorney in this case. How do you explain that? The some other dude did it theory.

SHERMAN: Well, I`ll answer that with a question. How do we know that someone else didn`t move that body into the area where the body was found, because the body -- the area had been searched. And as you pointed out earlier, it had been under water. But I think most of the scientists are telling you that a cadaver dog will find and can find the remains of a body while it`s under water. So that may mean that body was moved there while she was incarcerated and that that`s pretty darn exculpatory evidence.

GRACE: You know, Mickey, I admire what you just did. Renee, he completely avoided a question that a child may very well have been wrapped in a sheet from the Anthony home which means the killer had to go in the home, get the sheet, get a trash bag, most likely, from the home, we don`t know that yet. And then bury the child there where Casey Anthony buries her pets.

ROCKWELL: But does that mean that Casey did it?

GRACE: Yeah.

ROCKWELL: What we`re saying so far, does that exclude every other possibility that somebody else might be involved?

GRACE: Hold on. What other reasonable possibility is there? Give me one other reasonable hypothesis.

No! No!

Renee, I want you to answer that. You brought it up. One other reasonable hypothesis.

ROCKWELL: What if, just for example, the brother did it?

GRACE: The brother was not -- no. The brother was not last seen with Caylee. The mother was. The mother is the one that came up with this zany Zani the Nanny did it. Not the brother.

ROCKWELL: Well, first of all, she doesn`t need to be saying anything, because she doesn`t .

GRACE: That`s not my question.

ROCKWELL: Exactly. Let me answer.

GRACE: Try to stick to the question.

ROCKWELL: OK. But, Nancy, what I`m saying is, until they know exactly what happened, all they have is a homicide. There has to be some theory, not that just she is a liar and she is the mother and she was mad at her own mother. That does not a murder make.

GRACE: OK! OK!

I got that you`re not answering the question. Go ahead, quickly, Mickey.

SHERMAN: The Lindbergh Baby was taken from his home.

GRACE: Oh! You`re digging deep. How long ago was that?

SHERMAN: What`s the difference? The Lindbergh Baby was kidnapped from his home, wearing the clothes from the house, so obviously somebody in the house must have been connected. That`s the same logic. It could have been a stranger, it could have been a nut case out there, there`s a lot of strange people out there, there`s a lot of criminals out there.

GRACE:: You`re leaving out -- conveniently leaving out that the mom in this case was the last one seen with the child, and she`s the one that apparently made up a theory that the child was kidnapped by an imaginary nanny. We are taking your calls live. Out to Debbie. Hi, Debbie.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. My question is, up until it was announced that a body had been discovered, Leonard Padilla had posted a $250,000 reward. Once it started being reported that a body had been found, he announced the other night that he pulled that reward money. And I`m just wondering, did he pull the reward money because he thought that he was going to find the body first, and wouldn`t have to pay anyone the reward money?

GRACE: Leonard Padilla, you want to speak for yourself?

PADILLA: It sounds like Todd Black`s girlfriend made that call. There was a $50,000 reward for the body way back. I pulled the reward way back. It wasn`t 250. And the situation was such that the worker now in checking to see if he can receive some kind of reward or some kind of compensation, county workers are not allowed to get gifts, compensations or rewards. We have checked with several people here at the county. So the lady is wrong on all counts. And I`m still trying to figure out how to get him some reward without getting Sergeant Allen all over my butt.

GRACE: We are waiting right now for an announcement linking -- identifying these remains formally as those of Littlecaylee. Back to Drew Petrimoulx. What can you tell me, grandparents George and Cindy Anthony`s request for complete immunity? What`s become of that?

PETRIMOULX: Nothing further. Again, they said that they`re ready to make a new statement. They admitted to making, through their lawyer, and making conflicting statements. They said they`re going to come back, make true statements this time, and in return their asking for immunity.

GRACE: And what can you tell me, Nikki Pierce, about when the pastor came to the jail, and how long was he there?

PIERCE: He was there for about three hours. He came in the morning, from about 9:30 to just after 12:00.

GRACE: Joining us right now, Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist from Florida Gulf Coast University. Professor, thank you for being with us. After almost six months in both rain and heat, is there any chance soft tissue will still be on the bones?

HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST: Well, Nancy, if the remains were on the surface, we would have skeletonized remains anywhere from a week to 10 days. But when you have remains in an area where the water level rises and falls, you can still have soft tissue after many, many months.

GRACE: And what information can be gained solely from a skull, professor?

WALSH-HANEY: Oh, well, you can determine things like the age of the individual, especially with someone who is young and less than five, because you can look at the development of the teeth, so much so that you can narrow down the age just from someone that`s 2 to 2.5 or 3 or 3.5.

GRACE: Let`s go back to the scene where the remains were discovered. Standing by, Natisha Lance, our producer. They were there again, all day today. They have just recently packed up and headed home. They are not releasing the scene to the defense. When are they saying they will release the scene?

NATISHA LANCE, CNN HN PRODUCER: They`re saying that they`re planning to work through tomorrow, and possibly it could be released tomorrow. But at this point, it`s really kind of up in the air. They`re not giving anything definitive at this point as to when this scene will be released.

GRACE: And to Karen Stark, psychologist joining us out of New York, what does it say to you, if, in fact, this is Caylee, as we believe it to be, and the state of obviously going forward on murder one charges, that she buried the child where she buried pets?

KAREN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it shows you, Nancy, that she really doesn`t see a difference between her child and a pet. And we know that about her. That`s her personality, that she can`t have authentic feelings. Any time that you see her on television crying, it`s not to be believed. She went partying. Did the Lindberghs go partying when their child was missing?

GRACE: And very quickly back to Mark Klaas joining us out of San Francisco. Do you believe, Mark Klaas, that the state will reevaluate its decision regarding the death penalty?

KLAAS: Well, they should. I mean, if that body was -- if that -- if that little skull was surrounded by duct tape, that was obviously a premeditated act, and absolutely, absolutely they should go for the death penalty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The FBI says it also found unusually high levels of chloroform, a potentially deadly substance, and the vapors coming from the carpet in Casey`s trunk. More than you would expect from normal human decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys don`t know. The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s car is not my granddaughter!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When rain storms chase rain storms go over -- Papa, are you tired, papa?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you tired, papa?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole United States is looking for Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know that, mom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything is looking for her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your daughter in a better place?

UNIDENTFIED FEMALE: I hope she`s not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No more lies. What happened to Caylee?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Regardless of whether she is alive or passed away, we need to find Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not concerned about them finding a dead body, because we believe she is alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It leaves my gut every day, stronger and stronger, I know we`re going to see Caylee. I know she is coming home. I can feel it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re concerned that we`re going to do whatever it takes to make sure we collect all of the proper evidence. Keep in mind that Mr. Baez will probably be the first one to say if we left and we left evidence behind there that it`s shoddy work. They just said that himself yesterday. So, no, we`re going to be here as long as it takes. We`re on our schedule and not on Mr. Baez`s schedule.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: While we were on air tonight, we have gotten a statement from the sheriff`s office there in Orange County, stating that this property, this location, is -- cannot be just released to the defense, as they are requesting. This is private property, and the owner must allow the defense to come on to that private property. We are taking your calls live, and we are waiting for a formal announcement, expected within the hour, that these remains are those of Littlecaylee. Straight to the lines. Tina in Pennsylvania. Hi, Tina.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. My question is, if the defense team and the Anthonys are trying to pin this on Zani or someone other than Casey, couldn`t the prosecution just take the hair that they found in the trunk of the car with the death ring and match it up to the hair that they -- that was recovered from the skull and if they`re an exact match, wouldn`t that automatically put Casey at that scene?

GRACE: Yes. Depending, Mary in Maryland, if the car was proven to be in the continuous possession of Casey Anthony. That`s a very interesting point, a very crucial point, at trial, Mark Klaas, because you`ve got to show that she was in control of that car, and Zani the Nanny that never borrowed the car. What do you make of the whole defense?

KLAAS: Well, I make very little of the defense. I think that what we`re going to find multiple crime scenes here. There is a crime scene at home, there is a crime scene in the car, there`s a crime scene certainly they location where they found the little girl. But, you know, Nancy, when we were looking for Polly, it was always about a quest for the truth, and we wouldn`t listen to anybody`s lies.

But here in this situation, with this little girl, while the police are trying desperately to put together what actually happened to her, you have a mother who continues to lie, you have grandparents who were scrambling to go get immunity. They are continually victimizing this little child, and I just think that the dysfunction in that family has created such a toxic environment that a little girl lost her life, and still -- still nobody there is willing to face the truth. I just think it`s about one of the most appalling family situations I`ve ever seen.

GRACE: To Mike Brooks, we`ve got to think about the evidence at trial. We`ve got to think about what can be proved. And we`ve got to think, and anticipate what the defense is going to say, and meet it ahead of time. And I`m thinking about the continuous possession of this car. Of this car. Linking that hair to this body. And getting rid of any theory someone else may have had the vehicle. Weigh in.

BROOKS: I think you`re right, Nancy. And that`s going to be very important when you go to trial. And -- the evidence. They`re building the identification. Now you need the evidence. And the whole time that the car ran out of gas and that`s why the -- the employees at that Amscot are going to be able to say, you know, did they see anyone in that car, did they se anyone leave that car, did they see anyone come back to that car? It`s going to be very important on some of their statements they`ve given police.

GRACE: And with her there at the car stating I ran out of gas, we can place her there on that date. We know when the car was first determined to have the smell of death in it. It`s going to be a very complicated time line to show continuous possession of the car. I want to go to Natisha Lance, there at the location where the skull was discovered.

Natisha, what can you tell me about possession of the car and not only that, Natisha, I understand that there has been a fight, an actual argument, over photos or video of this skull? I can guarantee you, that skull, even if the photo is ever released, will not be broadcast on this show. I can tell you that much.

LANCE: Well, this argument came in court when Jose Baez was arguing the motions he had. One of the motions was to get photographs and drawings and any video recordings of the crime scene back there. And the attorney for the Orange County Sheriff`s Office said, we cannot release photos of this skull and possibly have it broadcast on the news. We will pick and choose and possibly give you pictures that we think are relevant and that we think you might possibly need in order to do your case. But we`re not going to go ahead and give you pictures that could possibly make it on to the news.

GRACE: I understand that the FBI have just arrived there behind you?

LANCE: That`s right, Nancy. Nick savage, one of the investigators who has been working diligently on this case, just pulled up back here. Probably means that they are having some sort of meeting or debriefing at this point.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Renee Rockwell, Mickey Sherman. Mickey, the grandparents now wanting full immunity. Why can we believe them now?

SHERMAN: Well, why can you not believe them? These are people who are in crisis.

GRACE: Because they have admitted to making conflicting statements, number one.

SHERMAN: Well, last I checked, conflicting statements is not a crime, a misdemeanor, felony or an infraction.

GRACE: That`s not what I asked you. I asked you why should we believe them now.

SHERMAN: Because we`re vilifying them. First they were seduced by the press. And then they became their enemies.

GRACE: I`m not vilifying them.

SHERMAN: I`m not saying you .

GRACE: Don`t say we! Don`t jump up and say we! I`m not vilifying them, I`ve defended them.

SHERMAN: Not you. Everybody else. I agree. You`ve seen the scenes of these people under siege with the satellite trucks all around. At first they thought everyone was there to help them. Now they`re absolutely paranoid and I don`t blame them.

GRACE: Renee, let`s talk about the brass tacks. Why should the prosecutor give them immunity now? They`ve got the body, apparently. We`re waiting on that announcement. Why should they give the grandparents immunity now?

ROCKWELL: What if the grandparents through the attorney and through a proffer say, OK, you`ll never believe our daughter but we will tell you exactly what happened. That might be interesting enough. They may not be able to figure that out, Nancy, from the physical evidence that they have now. And maybe the truth would be important to the prosecution.

GRACE: Renee, do you believe the state is going to re-evaluate its position on the death penalty?

ROCKWELL: Absolutely, Nancy, absolutely. Because they don`t have to commit until the jury`s empanelled.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: The FBI has just arrived on the scene where the location -- where the remains were discovered. Out to Natisha Lance standing by there. Natisha, what`s happening?

LANCE: Actually, Nancy, they went into -- the Orange County Sheriff`s Office mobile command center is still here. So they`ve gone into that area. We can`t see what they`re doing but I would assume probably have along debriefing about the things they found today. Because Captain Angelo Nieves told us they continue to make more and more discoveries and possibly waiting on that I.D. that could happen as you`ve been saying at any moment.

GRACE: Also, it`s my understanding Natisha, they say they are still finding bones?

LANCE: Actually, they haven`t specified whether it`s bones or not. But they said that they are continuing to make discoveries in this case. Significant discoveries that they think probably will be shipped off to the medical examiner`s office.

GRACE: Have the grandparents come to the scene at all, Natisha?

LANCE: No, Nancy, not that I have seen. Now I did hear word they were outside of their house today for a few moments. But no, they have not come down to the scene. They have remained fairly quiet.

GRACE: And Natisha, I understand that they`re all closeted in that mobile unit. How late does the mobile unit stay there?

LANCE: It`s here all night. All night. It will be here in the morning.

GRACE: Is it protecting the scene?

LANCE: Actually, there`s deputies right behind us. I`m not sure if we can pan over and you can see. But there are deputies right behind us. There`s crime scene tape so that you cannot get past here unless you go past these deputies. And they are on 12-hour shifts. So nobody can get past here without going past those deputies first.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Private First Class James Yohn, 25, Highfire (ph), Pennsylvania, killed Iraq. A firefighter, inspired to join after September 11th. Outgoing, free-spirited, loved making others laugh. Killed before the birth of his very first child Jimmy Jr. Leaves behind mother Judith, father and stepmother Robert and Julia, three brothers and grieving wife Amber. James Yohn, American Hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END