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Nancy Grace

DNA Confirms Remains Are Caylee Anthony

Aired December 19, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate today. Word comes just hours ago the FBI forensic lab, Quantico, matches little Caylee`s DNA with a child`s skeleton found in a heavily- wooded area just 15 houses away from the Anthonys. Cause of death, homicide. The little girl`s remains completely skeletonized, making the manner of death nearly impossible to determine.
Orange County investigators literally on their hands and knees for the last eight days, searching, searching for hundreds of tiny undeveloped bones, this after a utility meter reader stumbles on a garbage bag and a human skull, a tiny human skull, literally rolls out, covered in long, light-colored hair, hair still intact because of thick industrial duct tape wrapped around the child`s tiny head.

In the last hours, the utility meter reader finally breaks his silence, confirming it`s the same bag he spotted back in August. Did he actually alert police with this same tip four months ago, calling not once, twice, but three times? Tot mom Casey Anthony learns behind bars the tiny skeleton is confirmed to be little Caylee, and then promptly turns away a visit from the family pastor. Instead, she takes a visit from her own defense team. Tonight, will there ever be justice for Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With regret, I`m here to inform you that the skeletal remains found on December 11 are those of the missing toddler Caylee Anthony. This identification was made by nuclear DNA taken from a portion of the remains and compared to a known profile of Caylee Anthony. My examination of the body and evidence is complete, barring no further bones being found, and the anthropologic exam will be finished up shortly.

The remains are completely skeletonized, with no visible soft tissue present and no ante-mortem trauma evidence, meaning that there was no trauma to the bone prior to the death. Toxicology testing is still to be completed on the bone and hair. While this analysis may prove to be informative, it will be difficult to interpret levels from these specimens, and thus will not be definitive in helping determine the cause of death.

The manner of death, though, is an opinion based on available information, including examination of the body, information from the scene, as well as circumstantial evidence. Based on all of this, the manner of death in this case is homicide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight. Six months of searching comes to a screeching halt. DNA confirms tiny skeletal remains discovered just 15 homes from the Anthonys are those of little Florida girl Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is some dispersion of the skeletal remains over an area. A large percentage of the skeleton has been recovered. That`s why we said, for a child, some of the bones are tiny. All of the bones are not developed. They`re in pieces because of the way a child develops. And so there are numerous -- there are -- a child`s skeleton has many more bones than an adult`s skeleton. Some of the bones are tiny, as big as a pebble, and some of those have been recovered.

SHERIFF KEVIN BEARY, ORANGE COUNTY: This would be a police chief`s or a sheriff`s nightmare case. And it`s got tremendous media exposure. I think there`s been an open wound in the community, and I believe we can start putting some closure to those open wounds and -- having a kid at the -- you know, I`ve raised two girls. Goodness, gracious! As Steve Ibison said from the FBI, the bottom line is, folks, no child should have to go through this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: What a day. Straight out to Mark Williams, joining us tonight. Mark, bring us up to date.

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Nancy, of course, big news this afternoon, the news we were hoping to hear but we really didn`t want to hear, is the remains found last week by a meter reader are those of 2-year- old Caylee Anthony, found in her neighborhood literally 15 doors away from where the remains were found. This afternoon, "`Dr. G.," the Orange County medical examiner, said those are the remains of those of Caylee Anthony. There was no trauma to any of the bones. And the remains were identified through DNA and the profile of little Caylee Anthony.

GRACE: What do we know about the reaction of grandparents George and Cindy Anthony?

WILLIAMS: Well, right now, what we know is that their attorney, Brad Coleman -- Conway, held a news conference just a couple of minutes ago. He said the Anthonys are grieving right now. They hope no other parents or grandparents ever have to go through like this. Their pastor, Shane Stutzman, is with them right now at their house out on Hopespring Drive.

GRACE: I want to go out to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. We understand that the meter reader -- sources say that he says this bag is the same one he saw back in August. Response.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I tell you what, he spoke out today and he says he`s nothing but a concerned citizen. But Nancy, I have a real problem. There were three calls, at least two calls for police service, and one call in to a crime line. Now, the one that bothers me is August 13. There were calls on August 11, 12 and 13.

What they need to do, what the Orange County sheriff`s department needs to do, they need to talk to Mr. Kronk, get the recording when he called in to the Communication Division, find out what time the call was dispatched, what time the deputy arrived there and he met with him.

Now, I want to know what he told the deputy, and did the deputy investigate the report of the bag? Did he point it out to him? And after the end of every call for police service, Nancy, you come back with a disposition. Either it`s 10-8, no report, you get a report, or they type something into their on-board computer. They need to find out exactly what that is.

GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. Drew, it seems to me that reports that surfaced today explaining the entire thing very well. What have you heard?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Are you talking about that -- that last meeting right there between...

GRACE: I`m talking about the meter reader`s three tips about the same bag.

PETRIMOULX: Right. Well, really, the million-dollar question, what happened on that third day, like Mike was just talking about, when that meter reader met with the cop out at the site? That is the one unanswered question. Sheriff Kevin Beary said today that they will conduct an investigation into that but didn`t really say exactly what happened. Did they go into the woods? Did he point out that exact bag? These are all questions that are going to come from an internal investigation that the sheriff`s office is conducting within their department.

GRACE: To our producer, Natisha Lance, standing by at the location where little Caylee`s remains were discovered. Natisha, reports are surfacing that out of the three calls, there was one day where the police came and the utility meter was there, and the police officer said, Hold on, I`ll go search, and was scared away by a rattlesnake who was there in the underbrush. What do you know?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s correct, Nancy. According to some reports that are out there -- there`s one report that says there was a rattlesnake that both the utility worker and the deputy saw, and the deputy said, You stay back here since there`s a rattlesnake, I`ll go in there and check it out. And then there`s another report that says that the deputy went into the woods, was scared off by a snake, came back out and said, Oh, there`s nothing back there, it`s all clear. And like Drew was just saying, this is under investigative review -- and they are -- administrative review, excuse me -- and they are looking into it.

Now, the other thing that`s interesting, Nancy, is that second call that came in, they didn`t even come out here. It was -- went to the Criminal Investigation Division. A detective looked at it and said, We`ve already had cadaver dogs out in that area, there`s nothing back there. So all these things -- all these answers need to be -- all these questions need to be answered.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Today marks the end of six months since little Caylee was last seen alive. DNA testing from the FBI lab, Quantico, Virginia, confirms remains found just 15 houses away from the Anthonys` home are those of little Caylee. Since that time, grandparents George and Cindy have been in seclusion in their home. We know their pastor`s car has been parked there in the driveway of the home. We are taking your calls live.

Let`s unleash the lawyers, Gloria Allred, victims` rights attorney out of LA, Joe Episcopo, renowned trial attorney out of the Tampa area, and Pamela Hayes, a defense attorney, a courtroom veteran, joining us out of New York.

Gloria Allred, who cares? What difference does it make if the cop didn`t see the bag, if he did see the bag, if a rattlesnake scared him, what difference? Shoulda-coulda-woulda. Long story short, they didn`t see it when they followed up on the tip. They see it now. It`s the same bag in the general location as before. And it`s Caylee.

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, the fact is, Nancy, for the defense, this is going to be the gift that keeps on giving because what they`re going to do is, of course, demand that the investigation be investigated, which is already going to be done, according to the sheriff. But then when it comes to the trial, they`re going to continue to raise doubts, doubts about when the bag was there, did anybody tamper with the bag afterwards, how long has Caylee been in the bag, who might have placed her in the bag? That`s what`s going to happen.

GRACE: You know -- out to Joe Episcopo, joining us there in Florida. Joe, listen, these are the same officers that have been on their hands and knees for eight days looking for undeveloped bones of little Caylee. I just am not falling in line with the dereliction of duty by that sheriff that went out there.

JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, if you`re crawling around on your hands and knees, why are you going to be scared by a snake? No, you know, this is two things for the defense. One, a new suspect, Mr. Kronk, and two, botched police investigation, which you know was a major factor in O.J.`s acquittal...

GRACE: Stop, stop, stop! Stop everything. Put him on the air. You`re saying on national TV that Kronk, who called the police not once, not twice, three times, called the police to report this bag, is a suspect. Do you really believe a defense attorney in his or her right mind would jump up and say that to a jury? You`ve got to be kidding me.

EPISCOPO: Yes, of course they`re going to do it. They`re going to do it from every angle.

GRACE: BS! They will lose all credibility, Pam Hayes, if they come up with that argument. Pam Hayes, answer!

PAM HAYES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`ve got to investigate the case. I don`t know what their defense is going to be.

GRACE: You argue that, and you`re all looking at the death penalty.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: One thing that her and I always did was Spongebob Squarepants, you know? And I started that and I started to cry, but then I started to chuckle because -- you know, that special little combination of things that I had with her, you know? So realize we love you, we love her. We want you both home. We want you home. Whatever you can do to help us, you know...

CASEY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S MOTHER: I`ve done everything that I can do from where I`m at. I`m sorry. I`ve done everything that I can.

BEARY: No child should have to go through this. I think there`s been an open wound in the community, and I believe we can start putting some closure to those open wounds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is Sheriff Kevin Beary. He nearly came to tears today, describing the discovery, these little remains and their DNA match to Caylee Marie Anthony. It`s been six long months since she was seen alive, and today we learn that skeletonized remains just 15 homes away from the Anthonys are those of little Caylee. At this hour, we do not know the cause of death, only the manner of death is homicide.

To Dr. Michael Arnall, board-certified forensic pathologist joining us out of Denver. We hear that the bones, the skeleton, had no trauma to them. I`m assuming what she means by that, the medical examiner in Florida, is that there were no broken bones, there were no lacerations to the bones, no nicks in the bones to suggest a bullet wound, no tool markings on the bone to suggest that the bones had been severed or lacerated at the time of death. What does it mean, no trauma to the bones?

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: I believe she said no ante- mortem trauma. I interpret that (INAUDIBLE) to mean that she sees no trauma on the bone that may be related to the cause of death. But I think she`s left the door open, and we`ll just have to wait and see whether there may be actual marks from small animals.

But I think she said no ante-mortem trauma, but that does, indeed, mean that she`s found no evidence of a gunshot wound on the bones, no evidence of a knife wound on the bones, and no evidence of a fractured skull or a fractured arm or leg or ribs. So I think she has excluded any type of traumatic injury before death that would have caused the death of this child.

GRACE: And Dr. Arnall, the fact that there is absolute -- well, let me rephrase. The bones were completely skeletonized. It`s my layperson`s understanding that that means there is no flesh or soft tissue left from which to get a tissue analysis to determine if chloroform had been used. Does that also mean that there were no internal organs left?

ARNALL: That`s exactly what it means. My interpretation is no skin, no muscle, no internal organs. And that it makes it such that if -- if she wants to get toxicology, she has to do it on a bone or bone marrow.

GRACE: What about hair?

ARNALL: Bone or bone marrow or hair. Hair is excellent.

GRACE: What can you get out of hair?

ARNALL: Hair is excellent.

GRACE: Like what?

ARNALL: Well, hair will tell you a couple of things. Hair can tell you what toxic substances she was exposed to at the time of death, but it also may tell you what substances she was exposed to before death. Hair grows about a centimeter a month, so you can actually go back in time to determine what other drugs she might have been exposed to before death for a period of days.

GRACE: Dr. Arnall, would the inhalation of chloroform show up in a hair?

ARNALL: For two reasons, it may not. It may have been a very short period of time. And the chloroform -- the chloroform is volatile. It means it evaporates. This hair`s been out in the open for a long period of time. The reason they picked it up in the trunk was that it was protected. But out in the open, it may well have completely evaporated.

GRACE: Dr. Arnall, will the only toxic substance that shows up in hair be something that was ingested, as opposed to something that was inhaled?

ARNALL: It could be ingested, it could be inhaled, or if this child was in a room where people were smoking marijuana or crack cocaine or methamphetamine, that also might be on the hair, as well.

GRACE: Back to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Tell me about the grid search. What is your analysis?

BROOKS: Well, Nancy, it started out -- what my analysis is...

GRACE: Mike, Mike, Mike, what I`m boiling it down -- what I`m trying to ask is, do you think that there are still bones out there belonging to little Caylee?

BROOKS: Most likely not, Nancy. I think they`re almost done, or they are done at the scene. Dr. G. said today that they`ve got the majority of the skeletal remains from the scene.

GRACE: And tell me about the search. How did they do the grid search?

BROOKS: Well, Nancy, I`ve got some pictures we`ll show you here on the Telestrator. This is an aerial view. Here is where the body was found. See how close it is to the road here? Now, let`s go to the next picture. And what they did, after they got inside, they put a tent over the crime scene. And what they did, Nancy -- every one of these little pieces here, these are all what most likely would be pieces of evidence. And what they did, they would grid it out. And you see strings along there.

We can go to the next picture. And each one of these little strings - - this is where they start to make the grid, Nancy. And each one of these grids, what they`ll do is they`ll use a global positioning device, and they will do GPS -- we`ll go to the next slide. And what you see, all these buckets here, Nancy. These are taken from these different grid areas. And what they`ll do is, as they were doing the search, with this -- with -- using the sifters, if they found a piece, they would say, OK, it came from this longitude and latitude, so many inches this way, so many inches that way.

That is so when they do go to trial, Nancy, they can say, We found this piece of bone or this piece of particular evidence in this particular place, basically, recreating the crime scene for the jury.

GRACE: And you know what? I know it sounds like it`s labor- intensive, like they overdid it. Not true. You can`t prepare enough for what you`re going to face on cross-examination at trial.

Back to Mark Williams with WNDB. Mark, is it true that just after learning this is little Caylee, that the tot mom turns away her family pastor behind bars?

WILLIAMS: Yes, that happened this afternoon. Reverend Stutzman, Shane Stutzman from the East Side Baptist Church, went to the jail about 2:00 o`clock this afternoon. Casey refused to meet with him. He left at 2:19 this afternoon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As everyone now knows, the remains recovered off of Suburban Drive are those of Caylee Marie Anthony. The Anthony family did not give up hope that Caylee was still alive until they were notified by the Orange County sheriff`s office. They now know that their precious granddaughter is safe and hope that she will serve as the angel that protects thousands of missing children and their families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Still up in the Anthonys` windows, posters to help find little Caylee. They haven`t taken them down yet.

Out to the lines. Patricia in Maryland. Hi, Patricia.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello. How`re you doing, Nancy?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question. Why does the utility worker, one, have a lawyer? And two, what`s the chances of finding a needle in a haystack twice?

GRACE: Well, I can tell you this much, Patricia. If I had people like Joe Episcopo on air calling me a suspect, I`d get a lawyer. I might hire Joe Episcopo. But number two, remember, he called once, got no response, didn`t think anyone had come. He kept calling. And I`ve got to hand it to Mr. Kronk that he didn`t give up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: Tell her that I love her, that I miss her, pretty much. It`s a constant.

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: My focus is always on my granddaughter, it always will be.

LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: She is the light for our day. She is the brightest little star. She has the most amount of energy. She is - - she is extremely curious.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Dear, lord, please watch our little girl, keep her safe until we find her.

Are we going to be able to find her, Casey?

C. ANTHONY: I hope we can, mom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With regret, I`m here to inform you that the skeletal remains found on December 11th are those of the missing toddler, Caylee Anthony. The cause of death will be listed as homicide by undetermined means.

CINDY ANTHONY: What do you want me to tell Caylee?

C. ANTHONY: That mommy loves her very much. And she`s the most important thing in this entire world to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: You know, it just makes my stomach clench when I take a look at George and Cindy Anthony. Look at Miss Anthony`s face as she`s -- as she`s listening to her daughter, her face is just blank, she is exhausted. She is holding on to anything the tot mom says behind bars, listening to it, try to interpret it, decipher it, to try and find her little granddaughter.

Out to Dr. Jeff Gardere, take a look at the tot mom going on and on and on, telling this story behind bars. How could she do it? After all this time, all these hours and hours of watching her on jailhouse video? How did she keep it up?

JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "LOVE PRESCRIPTION": Well, I think she was certainly in denial as to whether her daughter was involved in the disappearance of her little Caylee.

GRACE: No, I`m talking about the tot mom. How did the tot mom keep up this facade? I know Cindy Anthony is just hanging on for any -- any words of hope that she can get out of her daughter. But how does Casey Anthony keep this up?

GARDERE: Well, I think it`s part of this personality disorder that we think she has. I think it`s just very telling that she doesn`t allow the reverend or the pastor to come in to talk to her after she finds out that her daughter is definitely dead.

We all know that losing a child is worse than losing a parent, a sibling, a spouse, it shakes your faith. That`s the time that you want to have someone come in and speak with you about your faith. That`s the time that you want to address your daughter is dead.

Instead, she gets down to the business of speaking to her lawyer. It makes me wonder whether she really knew that her daughter was dead, the shock just isn`t there.

GRACE: You know, I want to unleash the lawyers on this, Gloria Allred, L.A., Joe Episcopo, Tampa, Pam Hayes, New York.

Pam, as I recall being a tangential victim of murder, losing someone to murder, when you first learn that in the hours, the weeks that follow, I couldn`t even focus. I couldn`t eat. I couldn`t drink a glass of water. Much less hear some lawyer talking to me about trial strategy. She turns away her preacher and brings in her defense lawyer?

PAM HAYES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She`s got a real big problem, Nancy. I`ve been thinking about this. Since the time someone said that little girl was been missing from her mother for 30 days. I think this might be one of the cases that I could not try, because I can`t get beyond just admit. And you don`t need your lawyer to say that.

GRACE: I know. I know what you can`t get beyond, Pam Hayes.

HAYES: You know?

GRACE: You have a little girl. That`s why -- just like Sheriff Kevin Beary today, teared up, talking about this.

What about it, Episcopo, turns away the preacher, bring on the defense lawyer?

JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s not going to end up in court. No one is ever going to hear that. It doesn`t make any difference.

GRACE: I didn`t ask you if it`s going to come in court.

EPISCOPO: Maybe she thinks.

GRACE: I didn`t ask you that. Why don`t you address what I asked you?

EPISCOPO: Well, I did. I said it`s not going to matter.

GRACE: I didn`t ask you if it was coming into court. I`m asking you what does it mean?

EPISCOPO: It doesn`t mean anything. It`s not going to hurt the case.

GRACE: OK. Let`s see if Allred says the same thing. Gloria?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, I think it certainly shows that she`s not -- apparently either in shock or not in need of counseling for that, because she has talked to her attorney. And at this point, I don`t think she`s going to be saying anything, including to her parents, because she knows whatever she says to them is going to be recorded.

This is a person who didn`t help to find her daughter. She gave various reasons for not wanting to help. She is in fear something might happen. Well, now her daughter is found deceased. Is she feeling guilty? Does she still know something that she doesn`t want to disclose?

GRACE: I mean, Gloria, look, you have a daughter, a beautiful daughter, a beautiful granddaughter. If you had heard this distressing news, I just don`t believe you, Gloria Allred, could get down to the brass tax and meeting with a lawyer, and mapping out courtroom strategy. I don`t believe it. I don`t believe it.

ALLRED: I think when you are -- if you`re a true victim, then you want all the support around you that you can get. And that -- and here, if she does talk to her spiritual advisor, to her minister, anything she says is going to be confidential.

GRACE: No.

ALLRED: He can`t disclose it, so she would be safe talking to him.

GRACE: But Leonard Padilla.

HAYES: There`s something wrong with her, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, that`s the understatement of the year.

HAYES: There`s something wrong with this person. It really is. And, you know, I just can`t get beyond, just tell us what happened. How could your child be missing for 30 days, and you find her and her skeletal remains? It has me -- I`m off with it. I can`t get beyond it.

GRACE: Leonard Padilla, weigh in.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, ON LOCATION FROM ORLANDO, FLA.: Well, about a year ago, my daughter moved from California to Boulder, Colorado. She has three of my grandsons. And their cat got killed by a fox. And I was upset for a week. Can you imagine when a child -- dies?

GRACE: You know what, I can`t. I thought that I knew all about being a crime victim.

PADILLA: No, no.

GRACE: But now that I`ve had the twins, I can`t even.

PADILLA: No.

GRACE: . think about it.

I want to go to Tim Miller, the director of Texas EquuSearch. He has searched exhaustively, brought on volunteers, drummed up money for a search, has searched exhaustively through all types of conditions for this little girl.

Tim, what is your -- what was your reaction when you heard the news that this was little Caylee?

TIM MILLER, DIRECTOR, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH, SEARCHED FOR CAYLEE: You know, I wasn`t surprised at all, Nancy. I think last week when that body was found, it was pretty obvious that it was going to be Caylee. Of course, they had to do all of the testing and get positive I.D. but it`s -- you know -- even though all of the efforts we put into it, we weren`t prepared for it. It`s still a very, very sad story.

GRACE: But, Tim, Tim, even though we knew it up here, I think a lot of us didn`t want to know it here, in our hearts, until -- I mean you can`t argue with DNA.

But Tim Miller, how long do you believe Caylee`s body was in that area?

MILLER: From the -- back in June when she disappeared. I mean, I was taken to that spot, Nancy. I seen the grass was dead underneath a spot. You can see a little hole in the ground, just a little indentation where that body laid, and I don`t have any doubt after seeing that site that little Caylee was there that entire time, nobody put her there.

Afterwards, there is no conspiracy on that. That little baby was placed there. Casey Anthony let the entire country come and help search when gas prices were higher than any time in history.

GRACE: You`re right.

MILLER: I spent four days in the house with her, and not one time in four days, Nancy, did Casey Anthony say the word "Caylee." Not what can we do to help, or anything. It was just the oddest situation I`ve ever been in.

And Nancy, I remember when my own daughter`s body was found, Laura, after 17 months, I literally took a sigh of relief. At least I knew. And after 900-plus cases on little Caylee, I think I took that same sigh. And, you know, it`s just heart breaking for everybody involved.

GRACE: You`re right.

MILLER: And what an effort. What an effort.

GRACE: You`re right.

Out to the lines, Selena in Virginia. Hi, Selena.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I was wondering, how can the defense attorney say that the body was just placed there while she has been in jail, while the bones have been scattered everywhere.

GRACE: You know, Selena, I`ll tell you the bottom line is, because they don`t have anything else they can say. But very quickly, Gloria, can you respond to that?

ALLRED: Well, sure, because a defense attorney`s job is always to create doubt. So they`ll raise a thousand questions, as many as they can, about the body to try to place blame elsewhere, not on Casey.

GRACE: Everyone, quick break. We are taking your calls live. But as we go to break, happy birthday to Indiana friend of the show, Mary.

Mary, thank you for watching and happy birthday.

And tonight, on a happy, happy note, the twins couldn`t wait until Christmas to give me their present, and I want to share it with you. Here is my gift from little Lucy and baby John-David. Please look. They gave mommy these earrings. They each have their birth stone and their mommy and daddy`s birth stones.

This time, last year, all of us were just out of intensive care. And I believe your prayers and concerns made it possible for us to be together this Christmas. Thank you. And thank you to the twins.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

G. ANTHONY: She`s beautiful. You know that, I know that. And I.

C. ANTHONY: I hear that every day. I know.

G. ANTHONY: I said, you know, that the photos of her are beautiful. But when you see her in front of you, the eyes.

C. ANTHONY: She`s captivating. She is absolutely captivating.

G. ANTHONY: She has a personality that`s -- so, so remarkable. We`ve got to get that little girl back anyway we can, and we`re doing everything we can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People do care. And I think they even care even more when it`s a small child. So it will bring a little closure to the case. But, folks, closure is not done until after a fair and equitable trial.

So now we will be working with the state attorney`s office to make sure that we`re doing the very best we can at every level of government to help in this case to bring this case to a conclusion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The creep factor definitely on the rise, as you watch tot mom Casey Anthony behind bars weaving her story on and on and on. Now that we know this is little Caylee, it`s definitive, it has been decided by DNA at the FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia, and we hear this long, long story from the tot mom.

I want to go right out to Natisha Lance. What can you tell me about reports that authorities are positive that Caylee`s body was dumped, disposed of immediately after she was killed?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, ON LOCATION WHERE CHILD`S REMAINS FOUND: That`s correct, Nancy. According to a local report, this body was dumped very soon after she would have been killed. And according to the information that we received today from Dr. G., it`s a very likely possibility considering that there were only skeletal remains that were left.

GRACE: And Mike Brooks, what`s your theory?

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: You know, Nancy, I don`t know what the theory is. There have been so many now. You know they have said that she was found in her bathing suit and there were clothes. You know there have been so many speculative theories with the chloroform.

You know I`m waiting for the toxicology to come back, Nancy. We heard Dr. G say today that, well, we might not be able to get exactly what kind of levels are -- were -- you know, in that piece of bone or that hair. But still, the report is not finished yet. I have my faith that we might get a little something out of that.

GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, what`s your theory?

PADILLA: I would go along with him on what he`s saying that I think that she was dumped.

GRACE: Well, he didn`t really say anything. He didn`t give me a theory.

PADILLA: Well, no, he`s waiting for the reports. My theory is that it was accidental.

GRACE: Your theory is that you`re waiting?

PADILLA: . because she overdosed her -- accidental on chloroform. As far as the toxicology coming in, it will come in and it will tell us.

GRACE: Accidental.

PADILLA: . because there`s an.

GRACE: Accidental death on chloroform?

PADILLA: She didn`t -- she didn`t mean to kill her. She acted on a horrible manner.

GRACE: You give a baby chloroform, and you -- that`s like.

PADILLA: To put her to sleep.

GRACE: . me pointing a pistol at you and shooting and saying oh, well, I only meant to scare you.

PADILLA: I know. I know. I know. But hear, the cops think she was dumped on the 18th or 19th. I think it was on the 24th or the 25th.

GRACE: I want to go to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. Cops have also had suggested that she was never out of the area. In other words, there was no Zanny the nanny that took her to Jacksonville or Texas, or anywhere else and then came back here to dump her.

Why do they say she never left the area?

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO, ON LOCATION WHERE CHILD`S REMAINS FOUND: It`s -- she says -- Dr. G says it`s the summary of the evidence that was at the scene. They used -- there was a skeleton there. Some of the other things that they found at the site, they didn`t exactly specify what, but they said there is really no reason to think that this body was dumped there at a later time or that there was ever any, you know, co- conspirator in this case.

GRACE: To Mark Williams with WNDB who`s been reporting on the case from the very beginning.

Mark, what do you know about a bathing suit being found in that bag? Was the child wearing a bathing suit?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150, COVERING STORY: There have been conflicting reports about that, Nancy. There have been reports that there was clothing found in the -- in the bag of bones. Other reports say she was totally nude.

Right now, that is still up in the air, and the sheriff`s department and investigators have not released that. But remember, Casey at one time said they haven`t even found her clothes yet.

GRACE: You`re absolutely correct. I first heard that from Padilla.

Out to Lee Ann in Alabama. Hi, Lee Ann.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Your babies are beautiful. I love the pictures in the wagon.

GRACE: Thank you, dear. Thank you, very much. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question and a comment.

GRACE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of your -- one of your associates had a gentleman, Mark Aglosh (ph) on Prime News today, and Mike Wallace, as well as Leonard Padilla was there. And my question with regards to the chloroform, he said whether it was the first time that she had chloroformed her in order to go out and party, or if it was the 50th time, that that would not cause first degree murder.

My question is, why would it not?

GRACE: Well that is complete and total BS, that`s a technical legal term, I think we can all understand that, because, Joe Episcopo, that in my mind would constitute felony murder.

EPISCOPO: Of course.

GRACE: In the middle of an aggravated assault.

EPISCOPO: Exactly.

GRACE: Chloroforming a child is an aggravated assault. That is a felony and a death occurred during the commission of a felony, and that will qualify for the death penalty, with a child under 12 in Florida. Response.

EPISCOPO: Well, first of all, it`s aggravated child abuse.

GRACE: Yes, it is.

EPISCOPO: That`s the enumerated felony. And yes, that is the best way to get a first degree murder conviction, which will result in life, no parole. I don`t think you`re going to get a death penalty case. You don`t even have a conclusive cause of death.

GRACE: So?

EPISCOPO: You don`t have the aggravating statutory aggravating factor.

GRACE: Come on, Episcopo. I have seen a death penalty.

EPISCOPO: You don`t have them.

GRACE: . come down when all that was left is a glass eye. That`s all that we had left of the body.

EPISCOPO: You don`t have the factors that the law requires for a death penalty.

GRACE: Not true.

EPISCOPO: You don`t have it, OK?

GRACE: Gloria? Gloria? And you know what, Episcopo, I give you this much. At least you anticipate what the other side is going to do. That`s the only way you can win a case.

Gloria, do you believe there is enough for the state to seek a death penalty?

ALLRED: Well, I think it`s going to be discretionary, Nancy, with the state...

GRACE: Of course.

ALLRED: . to decide whether to seek the death penalty or not.

GRACE: Of course.

ALLRED: But, yes, and perhaps they could also argue premeditated murder, as well as felony murder, because allegedly on her -- on the computer at home there was a search for chloroform many months before.

GRACE: Absolutely. Along, Pam Hayes, with household items as weapons, looking up all the ingredients to chloroform.

HAYES: The chloroform goes to her intent to just put the child asleep. As much as I don`t like the facts of this case and you can never win a child killing, you just can`t do it, you know, I can`t believe that she just wanted to kill this little girl.

GRACE: OK. You know what, Dr. Jeff Gardere.

HAYES: I don`t think it`s going to be a death penalty either.

GRACE: What about the use of duct tape? I mean you put it on a child`s mouth and nose, what do you think is going to happen?

GARDERE: Well, I think this is a situation where she didn`t care whether the child lived or whether the child was just injured or was a temporary way to restrain her. So I don`t buy what Pam is saying.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: As the search for a beautiful, sweet little Florida girl comes to an end, we stop and remember and say a prayer for 2-year-old Caylee Marie.

Let`s stop and remember Marine Sergeant Nicholas Walsh, 26, Millstadt, Illinois, killed, Iraq, on a second tour. Left study at Southwestern Illinois to re-enlist. From a long line of military vets, lost his life just hours after a last call to his wife.

Loved restoring cars, outdoors, skiing, snowboarding. Favorite place, Glacier National Park. Leaves behind parents Gerry and Donna, step-mom Maggie, two sisters, four brothers, widow Julie, son Tristin and Tanner.

Nicholas Walsh, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us and a special good night from California and Georgia, friends of the show, Dan, Steven, Taylor, Alden, Kyle, Kathy and Sarah. What a good looking bunch.

And tonight a special good night from the New York control room. Bret, Liz, Squeaky. Everybody else, see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern.

Tonight God bless Caylee. Good night, friends.

END