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Nancy Grace
Police in the Caylee Investigation Want to See PI`s Videotape
Aired December 30, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the case of missing 2-year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. After months and months of searching throughout the Orlando area, a local meter reader calls authorities after finding a bag containing skeletal remains in a heavily wooded area just yards from the home of Caylee`s grandparents, George and Cindy Anthony. The remains were later identified as those of little Caylee, the medical examiner revealing the manner of death to be homicide, but the cause of death remains a mystery.
Headlines tonight. A private investigator who at one point worked for the Casey Anthony defense team was at the remains site one month before the skull and bones were found. But why was he there? The Anthony defense team is trying to protect their former investigator from talking to authorities, filing a legal motion asking for a special master to oversee any questioning of the private investigator.
Also, at this hour, as the remains of Caylee Marie are still being held at the local funeral home, grandparents George and Cindy Anthony announce they want daughter Casey to attend the funeral. But does Casey Anthony even want to go?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have seen private investigator Jim Hoover with a videocamera before, but today the focus is on a videotape he says he recorded of this wooded area where Caylee Marie Anthony`s remains were found about a month before they were found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we`ll definitely look into that. Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Orange County authorities want to know why he and another PI who had a videocamera were at the location, with reports suggesting it raises questions about whether someone knew the remains were there a month before they were discovered.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ROY KRONK, ORANGE COUNTY METER READER: I`m a meter reader with Orange County. I noticed something that looked white. I`m not telling you it`s, you know, Caylee or anything of that nature.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hoover briefly showed one our photographers a short clip of the videotape, which appeared to be authentic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also today, the attorneys for George and Cindy Anthony say the grandparents want tot mom Casey Anthony to attend the private memorial for Caylee, while the skull and bones of Caylee remain at the funeral home, awaiting a second autopsy.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S MOTHER: When I told them I would lie, I would steal, I would do whatever by any means to get her back, that`s exactly how I feel. It`s the truth.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace. Stunning developments tonight. George and Cindy Anthony want their daughter, Casey, to attend Caylee`s private memorial, but the jail says she`s not allowed to go. Also tonight, what was a former defense team private investigator doing at the remains site one month before the remains were even discovered?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Orange County utilities emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators reportedly want to speak with a private investigator who was at the remains site a month before the skull and bones of little Caylee were discovered. The private investigator, who had previously worked with Casey Anthony`s defense team, says he and a fellow PI filmed the visit and the tape shows Caylee`s body was not there at the time he was in the wooded area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have the videotape?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know they`re looking into -- the know the existence of the tape, and I know that they want to look at all the evidence that`s available.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators also want to talk to the Anthonys` private investigator who works with Hoover, Dominic Casey. The defense wants to intervene because Dominic Casey used to work for the defense, and attorney Jose Baez doesn`t want him to divulge privileged information.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meanwhile, George and Cindy Anthony said they want daughter Casey Anthony to attend the private memorial for Caylee, but it is unknown if the tot mom even wants to attend.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: My one goal is, regardless of how it happened -- the thing is, I don`t care. I will lie, I will steal or whatever I can to find my daughter. I put that in my statement, and I mean that with all of my heart.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Let us go straight out to Orlando, Florida, Mark Williams, news director of WNDB Newstalk 1150. Mark, give us the details.
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Jean, is there really a secret videotape of the murder scene? Who knows? According to Jim Hoover, who at one time worked for the Anthony family, sometimes as a security guard -- he said he videotaped a wooded area along Suburban Drive, and he claims that the bag containing the body of Caylee Anthony was not there at the time.
This was in mid-November, Jean. This was roughly 30 days before Caylee`s body was found in that wooded area, an SO spokesman, of course, saying that they want to see the video. They haven`t seen the video yet. Investigators may also want to chat down the road with Jim Hoover.
Also, there`s a second PI involved here and his name is Dominic Casey. He also worked for the Anthony family. These two investigators, even though they worked for the Anthony family, Jean, are working on their own.
CASAREZ: Well, you are right, though. The Orange County Sheriff`s Department is saying, If you have a video, we want to see it. We want to see exactly what you have.
Let`s go out to Jane Velez-Mitchell, who is the host of "Issues With Jane Velez-Mitchell." Jane, why would someone go and videotape -- when they are involved in a missing persons investigation for a live person to be found, why would they go out and shoot a forest?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES": Well, the obvious implication is that perhaps they knew something. And then the question becomes, Jean, who told them to go there? And since they were working with the Anthony family -- this Jim Hoover is reportedly -- worked for the Anthony family at that time, the question is, did the Anthonys know more about this location than they are saying? Did they know there was something up with this location a month before little Caylee`s remains were found?
Now, I want to caution that police are not saying any of this. We don`t want to speculate. We don`t want to jump to conclusions. This is a family that has lost a grandchild. Their daughter is sitting in jail. Their son is troubled by this case. So we don`t want to throw more at them. But it raises the obvious question.
You know, not everybody is psychic in this case. You`ve got the meter reader going there in August. Then you`ve got this private investigator videotaping in mid-November. How does everybody get attracted to this one particular area except the authorities?
CASAREZ: Well, Jane, let`s go out to some video right now. We want to show everybody. This is video -- I think we`ve got it -- of Casey and her attorney. But if you look, there`s a man with a videocamera. That man is Jim Hoover, and that is the man who worked and walked with the defense private investigator at the time, saying, I have that video from the crime scene, but there was no body, so close in time to when those remains were found.
Let`s go out to the attorneys tonight. First of all, Gloria Allred, victims` advocate, victims` rights advocate, family law attorney out of Los Angeles. Welcome. Ray Giudice, defense attorney out of Atlanta. And Peter Schaffer, defense attorney out of the jurisdiction of New York.
To Peter Schaffer, defense attorney. The first thing that comes to my mind when I see this, I say, so what? And I`ll tell you why. The indictment allows for an accomplice. That`s how it was pleaded by the state attorney`s office. There can be an accessory out after the fact. It does not mean that the prosecution does not believe that there is a principal involved in this crime. They believe that principal is Casey Anthony.
PETER SCHAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, we don`t even know if the video depicts what people say it is. I think it would be troubling if it was a picture of the scene and it -- and somebody was alerted to be there. But it also raises doubt because they obviously didn`t get this information from the defendant. So who else is it that knows about this place?
CASAREZ: Gloria Allred, what do you think?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, I do think it raises a number of questions. But again, the questions are not necessarily the answer because, as you point out, Jean, it could be that someone else placed it there. But first of all, we don`t know what were the weather conditions. We don`t know when that bag was placed there. We don`t know how long little Caylee, may she rest in peace, was deceased. So there are a lot of questions about that crime scene. And I`m not sure about the authenticity of this particular tape.
CASAREZ: That`s right. To Ray Giudice, defense attorney out of Atlanta. If, in fact, someone actually placed the remains there so you have an accessory after the fact, that is a very serious felony. That can be a first-degree felony in the state of Florida. That person isn`t going to want to go to trial, are they.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No.
CASAREZ: Could they have a plea deal?
GIUDICE: Absolutely. That could be your first witness that would roll over in this case and probably sew the thing up. One quick question, and Gloria raised it. Was this tape taken at the direction of defense counsel and is it a privilege under attorney work product? We don`t know who these guys were working for when they took this tape.
CASAREZ: And I think that is a very, very muddy issue but an extremely important legal issue.
Let`s go out to Drew Petrimoulx, reporter, WDBO radio. What do we know about that? Was the video taken at the direction of the defense, at least private investigator?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, it`s kind of a strange story because at that time, James Hoover wasn`t working for the defense, but Dominic Casey was. And when they went out to that wooded area, Dominic Casey says he was going out there for process of elimination to eliminate that area. He said that James Hoover came with him and was videotaping.
After that -- after they were done, after he was done videotaping, Dominic Casey said he needed that video. James said that he could have it, but later, when he called to get the video, he said he had taped over it. And then when he tried -- Dominic Casey tried to get back in touch with James Hoover, he said that he had taped over that actual part. And then furthermore, he wasn`t able to get ahold of him after that.
So now he comes out with the video and says that he took it of that exact spot and there was no body there. It`s kind of a strange story and has people -- even Dominic Casey, who works for the defense team, doesn`t exactly know how he has that video and why he didn`t hand it over to him, as he had asked.
CASAREZ: Let`s go to forensic investigator right now, to John Lucich, forensic investigator, author of "Cyber Lies." You`ve done many, many investigations. If you were working on a team that was a missing persons investigation, what would it be to your benefit to take a video of a forested area, a densely forested area?
JOHN LUCICH, FORMER INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR, "CYBER LIES": It wouldn`t be any benefit to me personally. It would be to Baez, if he asked him to do it. But you know, there are just so many strange things that are going on with this case. You have an attorney that came out and said that -- you know, Lee`s attorney -- that said, Hey, my client might be charged with this, that and the other thing. You`ve got this showing up. You`ve got Kronk, who goes out there three times, doesn`t find anything, finds it on the fourth time.
I think something`s going on. I`d be very suspicious that somebody is trying to build reasonable doubt in an upcoming trial.
CASAREZ: So you think a lot of these things are red herrings and may not be based in truth or fact?
LUCICH: Absolutely. And I think someone`s behind all these things, and it may be -- I`m very suspicious that all of this is coming together at the same time.
CASAREZ: But to Leonard Padilla -- you are a bounty hunter. You searched for Caylee from the beginning. You believe this video exists. Have you seen it?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Yes.
CASAREZ: Tell us about it.
PADILLA: I was introduced to Hoover back when we bailed out Casey in August. And because we have basically a sealed team, we don`t allow outsiders in. And therefore, even though he volunteered to help and all that, he wasn`t accepted.
When we went back this last time, we noticed that he was part of the security or the people that were hanging around the Anthonys. And after I had been there about three or four days, he mentioned to me that he had a film that he had filmed when Dominic called him on the 15th. And I asked him, I says, How can you have a film of the area? He says, Well, Dominic called me on the 15th, told me Caylee had been found. Hoover told me that he asked him, Is she alive? He said, No, she`s dead, but we`re going to go get her right now.
He then -- about two hours later, he showed up again. He had this film, a minute-and-a-half. But it`s not of the exact area where the body was found.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: One thing that her and I always did was Spongebob Squarepants, you know? (INAUDIBLE) and I started that and I started to cry, but then I started to chuckle because, you know, the special little combination of things that I had with her, you know? So realize we love you. We love her. We want you both home. We want you home. Whatever you can do to help us, you know...
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve done everything that I can do from where I`m at. I`m sorry. I`ve done everything that I can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No child should have to go through this. I think there`s been an open wound in the community and I believe we can start putting some closure to those open wounds.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: Would it be safe for me to assume that the person that took Caylee would have resources out of the Orlando area?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
LEE ANTHONY: Aside from the places within the state of Florida that we already mentioned, do you think that they`d have resources outside of the state of Florida?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
LEE ANTHONY: Could that go -- could that go up as far north as the places that I`ve recently been to, or up in that region?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace tonight. Is there a secret videotape of the crime scene so close in time to when the remains were found, but the remains were not there at the time? A professional videographer is banking his entire professional reputation saying, I do have that tape. Law enforcement is saying, If you have it, we want to see it, we want to see it now.
Let`s go out to Holly in Ohio. Thanks for calling, Holly. Your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Couldn`t the meter reader have actually looked at that bag and known there was a body in there, even though he said he didn`t, and that`s why he was so insistent to keep calling back those three days and then go back again in December?
CASAREZ: Well, Holly, I think what you`re saying is that you believe he had a hunch, that he believed something was out there.
Let`s go out to our reporter tonight, Mark Williams, news director, WNDB Newstalk 1150. Do they believe that that -- Roy Kronk is his name -- that he had a hunch that something was there?
WILLIAMS: I think he had a hunch. But you know, he called on three separate days. He called the sheriff`s office. One time he called Crimeline. And deputies came out. They couldn`t find anything, one deputy chased off by what appeared to be a poisonous snake. And then he went back there on the 11th of December, and bingo, we have a skull rolling out of a bag.
I don`t know what`s going on here, but I`ve got to agree with some of the lawyers. There are a lot of dots to be connected here. Same way with Leonard Padilla. There are a lot of dots here. Like he mentioned last night, there`s a daisy chain here that`s unexplained right now. And my head`s just spinning over the entire thing, Jean.
CASAREZ: Well, Mark, you`re right there in the thick of it in Orlando, so it`s interesting to hear you say that.
Let`s go out to Gloria Allred. Gloria, the credibility of the meter reader is going to be extremely important, the credibility of the law enforcement very important in responding to those 911 calls and the tip line from the meter reader.
ALLRED: Well, exactly. And apparently, Jean, law enforcement is excluding the meter reader as a suspect. So of course, the defense is going to raise a lot of questions about the meter reader and what his motives might have been and whether he was involved in any way because, as someone said earlier, the name of the game is doubt and they`re going to try to raise as many doubts about anybody who might have had anything to do with the crime scene that is where the body was found. That includes the meter reader. That would include anyone that might have been around.
CASAREZ: Because the jury pool is at home, in their homes. They`re reading newspapers. They`re watching news. That`s why it`s so important to create that reasonable doubt at this point.
Let`s go to Jen in New York. Good evening, Jen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
CASAREZ: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A couple of quick questions. Just from a defense lawyer standpoint, do you think that they are in there right now, saying, Casey, come on, we can`t stand up in front of a jury pool saying the Zanny thing when there are no phone numbers? I mean, can they really still go with this story or...
CASAREZ: I`ve been thinking that myself. Let`s go to Ray Giudice, defense attorney out of Atlanta. Do you think the defense is going to be this nanny defense, or do you think they`re going to develop other things?
GIUDICE: Well, I think they need to develop other things. But I`ll also say to you I don`t think that the defense has any control over Miss Anthony. I think if they had, this thing may have percolated and moved along a little better earlier on in the game, when there might have been a chance for a plea bargain before the body was found.
CASAREZ: That is a very good point. I want to go to Drew Petrimoulx, reporter from WDBO radio. There`s another issue that is the focus of a motion, a defense motion. They have a private investigator that used to work for the defense team. His name, Dominic Kerry (SIC). He`s now the focus of the defense motion before the judge in this case. Explain.
PETRIMOULX: Well, apparently, the investigators in this case want to talk to Dominic Casey. He was actually at the scene when James Hoover videotaped this area. So that could be someone they want to talk about. And they want to talk to him, but defense attorney Jose Baez wants to make sure that information that may -- he may have been present while Jose Baez was talking to his client, Casey. Jose Baez wants to make sure that that information is privileged information and that he can`t tell anything that Casey told him whenever he testifies to investigators. So he wants to protect private conversations that he may have had with Caylee (SIC) with Dominic Casey present.
CASAREZ: All right. To Peter Schaffer, defense attorney. Why do you think the state wants to talk to this former private investigator so much for the defense?
SCHAFFER: Well, I think that this -- I mean, this development about the videotape is huge in this case. How would somebody know to go out there? That being said, if that -- learning about that came from a conversation between Mr. Baez and his client, the -- you`d be able to claim, the videographer would be able to claim, the investigator would be able to claim the privilege. I don`t think, though, they`re going to be able to stop the investigation, the police, from talking to these people.
CASAREZ: Gloria Allred, do you agree with that? Do you believe a private investigator has an attorney-client privilege, the same as a defense attorney would have with Casey Anthony?
ALLRED: Well,I think it really depends on whether he is privy to communications, and that is also the issue of work product. But let`s face it, this private investigator is likely to take the stand. And when he takes the stand and testifies as a witness, you know, some of that they may choose to waive because they think that some of it may be useful to them. We`ll have to wait and see.
CASAREZ: You know, we had this issue in the O.J. Simpson case in Las Vegas, Nevada, and the question -- the issue came down to intent. Was it the intent of the defense team to make the private investigator or the bail bondsman part of the defense team, or did he stand alone?
But there`s another issue because this private investigator went from the defense team to working for George and Caylee -- Cindy Anthony. And if he divulged anything that was even remotely privileged, that privilege is then broken and there is no privilege if he were to be questioned by law enforcement, right, Gloria Allred?
ALLRED: Well, I mean, he`s not the one who`s the holder of the privilege. The client is the holder of the privilege. So you know, he should not have divulged anything that he learned as an attorney-client communication.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I just want her back.
CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: I know you do.
CASEY ANTHONY: God.
CINDY ANTHONY: You have to keep thinking positive. Positive feelings, Casey.
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, I know. I have been. I`ve been staying as positive as I can.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cause of death will be listed as homicide by undetermined means.
CASEY ANTHONY: No one has once said anything for me (INAUDIBLE) that I love my daughter, that I want her safety and that she and the rest of our family is my only concern.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace tonight. Not only has an attorney who is representing and advising the brother of Casey Anthony saying that Lee Anthony is part of an investigation right now by the Orange County Sheriff`s Department that could result in felony charges in this case, now we hear a videographer saying that he has a videotape of the crime scene, the crime scene without the remains of little Caylee weeks before they were found. This could bust this case completely open.
At the heart of this case is a little girl, a little girl whose remains are in a funeral home tonight because she hasn`t had a service yet, a private service or a public service, as the community so much wants in Orlando.
I`d like to go out to Dr. Joseph Deltito, M.D., professor of psychiatry. Doctor, it`s being reported that the family wants Casey Anthony to attend the service for her daughter. Why is that so important?
DR. JOSEPH DELTITO, PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY: Well, look, there is a presumption of innocence, although it doesn`t look like that`s the way it`s going to go down in the end. I think the humane thing is to consider that a mother should be at her own daughter`s funeral and that a family should be together. I don`t think it`s unusual that they would want her there. I think that it`s very normal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You got a feeling up until this point, something is not right.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Well, actually, it`s June 16th. That`s the last time.
(CROSSTALK)
G. ANTHONY: That`s the last time that I saw my daughter and granddaughter.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: There is something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I got arrested on a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) whim today, because they`re blaming me for stuff that I never would do, that I didn`t do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had had somebody to call to tell us that a shovel was borrowed in -- proximity to the child being missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone was researching how to make chloroform on Casey Anthony`s home computer around the time Caylee went missing. Lab tests have shown high levels of chloroform in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had higher hopes of finding her alive and that hope is somewhat diminished.
CASEY ANTHONY: I love her dearly and I want nothing more than for her to come home and be safe and to be where she belongs, with her family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is orange county utilities emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s right off of Suburban and Chickasaw in the Caylee Anthony area, right by the.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the first time Casey has had an anxiety attack and asked for sedatives.
CASEY ANTHONY: I wish that none of this would have ever happened. I really wish that none of this would have ever happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight.
If there is this videotape of the crime scene weeks before the body was found but didn`t have the skeletal remains at that point, this could change the course of this entire case. There could be an accomplice. There could be an accessory after the fact or there someone independent of Casey Anthony that actually committed this crime.
I want to go out to Dr. Marty Makary, a forensic expert, Johns Hopkins University, Washington, D.C.
Forensically, Doctor, what would you look for at the crime scene to determine if those remains had been moved to this location recently?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, let`s face it, Jean. Everything`s been washed away. There has been anaerobic bacteria there. There`s been decomposition.
Look, the forensic autopsy result is in, it is final. And they`re telling us we know nothing about the mechanism of injury. All we know is that it was a homicide, and the body corresponds to Caylee Anthony.
That is a major problem for the prosecution, and that`s going to expand this case.
CASAREZ: But there was a botanist out there. There was a bug expert out there. What can they do to help determine timelines in this case?
MAKARY: You know all that stuff is meaningless. They had forensic medicine, botanists, entomologists, but you know what, the final forensic evidence was reviewed by the chief medical examiner, the deputy medical examiner, and two forensic anthropologists from the University of Florida and Central Florida.
All of that together, they are concluding in the final report they know nothing about the mechanism, and they said, quote, "homicide of undetermined reason."
That is a big problem in this case.
CASAREZ: So do you think that it could defeat the prosecution`s case? Do you think there is enough reasonable doubt here that, that there could be an acquittal?
MAKARY: Well, I`m not a lawyer but I can tell you that 99 percent of the time, the forensic medicine evidence supports the prosecution. In this case, it sounds like you`ve got a bunch of Web sites on her browser and an undetermined cause of death in a homicide.
CASAREZ: But there is still air samples. 80 percent of the chemicals in the trunk of the car were of a decomposing body, and that is as per the University of Tennessee.
Let`s go out to Laura in North Carolina. Thanks for standing by, Laura.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, thank you for taking my call.
CASAREZ: Of course.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a couple of things. I wonder when the meter reader, the first couple of times he called, did he not describe the bag as white?
CASAREZ: Ah, very good question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then it turned out to be, I think, black.
CASAREZ: Mm-hmm. Jane.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And.
CASAREZ: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . I don`t think they can vet the brother enough. I think that`s going to blow the socks off the world.
CASAREZ: OK. Very interesting. Jane Velez-Mitchell, host o f "ISSUES with Jane Velez-Mitchell, talk to us about the color of the bag, because I also remember what Laura is saying that there is a difference in colors from August to December.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, he had described it in his phone conversation seeing a white object and describing a bag, and then, of course, we heard reports that the bag found at the scene on December 11th was a dark-colored bag.
But what`s really fascinating about his phone call, Jean, is the way he describes what`s going on there. When he`s calling 911 in August, the first time he calls, he said it`s not like I`m saying it`s Caylee or anything. The second time, he says, words to the effect of not if it`s a freaking body.
So he obviously has this on his mind. And then for him to make those three calls in August, very specifically pointing to that area, the authorities not finding anything, then a videographer coming by, videotaping in mid November, not finding anything, and then him finding the body at that location, this very same meter reader in December, on December 11th, it -- really doesn`t add up.
And, you know, when there are questions like this, the answer could be for the jury, reasonable doubt. They`ve got a dream team that they`re assembling, Linda Kinney Bodin, Dr. Henry Lee, all these people from these famous cases where they`ve gotten these major acquittals and I think they`re going to take this ball and run with it.
CASAREZ: But if I look at the state of mind of a meter reader, if I was a meter reader and I walked through that are and that was my route, I mean, right there, Orlando is a big city and if your meter reader route is right where the Casey Anthony home is, I`d be on the look-out, too.
And I`d make calls. It`s not his fault that it wasn`t found in August. He called again when he found something else. I mean, that, in a sense, is the duty of a citizen, isn`t it?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but why didn`t he look in the bag? That`s what I don`t understand. And you know, maybe he is so smart that he realized if I touch the bag, I`d get my prints on it therefore, I don`t want to contaminate the evidence.
In which case this guy really missed his calling. He should have been a detective. And of course, you know, wondering the detectives -- remember, there was a friend of Casey Anthony who also said to authorities, look at that area. That was the area where we hung out as kids right near the school. That`s where we spent all our time. Look at that area.
So it`s just -- it`s very bizarre that the authorities did not find these scattered remains. And as you pointed out, it is hard to move a body when it`s scattered. It`s skeletonized and it`s all over the place.
CASAREZ: That`s right. And it was all over the place.
Let`s go to Sarah in Iowa. Good evening, Sarah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Thank you for taking my call.
CASAREZ: Yes, of course.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, has anybody asked Tim Miller from the time the area flooded to when he started searching that area -- when they started searching it from the time it got flooded? Because remember, they were going off of her cell phone pings, and they were not looking at that specific area.
When did that area get receded by the flood water from Hurricane Fay?
CASAREZ: That`s a great question. I can answer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
CASAREZ: . a part of that question, because when Tim Miller was here on NANCY GRACE`s show with Nancy Grace, he said something that has stayed in my mind. Investigators took him out right after December 11th when the remains were found, and he said that he personally saw with his own eyes -- and law enforcement won`t say this right now, but he saw a deep furrow in the ground, and all of the leaves were green.
Let`s go out to Dr. Marty Makary, forensic specialist, expert out of Johns Hopkins, how long does it take to get a furrow in the ground from remains that obviously have, I think, been there for a while and the leaves to be brown. They weren`t green anymore.
MAKARY: Well, it`s -- I mean, we`re talking about a matter of weeks here. But, you know, the problem is, when you`ve got water in an area, when you`ve got weather damage, when you`ve got anaerobic bacteria, and quite honestly, if you can stomach the thought, animals.
Animals get into decomposed bodies of -- any species, and they spread those remains. You`re dealing with, I mean, some pretty tampered evidence there.
CASAREZ: Yes. Yes. You are. And I think that`s going to be a battle of the experts. I can see a meteorologist being an expert for the prosecution to talk about what the scene was like as far as moisture and rain and rainfall to explain a lot of the evidence.
Let`s go out to Drew Petrimoulx, reporter of WDBO Radio. I want to talk -- apparently, there was another commissary visit by Casey Anthony to get treats in jail?
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: She did. I understand she ordered about $40 worth of stuff. Looking through it, it`s really the same stuff she has been ordering this entire time. Beef jerky, water, candy, different kind of sweets and chips. No pen and pad this time.
But one of the things that had me thinking, she`d been -- she`s been buying paper and pens, and we obviously don`t know who she`s writing to, because that`s something that the jail protects. But it`s interesting, if that may be a way that she`s communicating with people on the outside, Lee Anthony and her family, because she was buying those pens and paper.
This time, it`s really just snacks, is all that she bought.
CASAREZ: And the fact is, she`s allowed to get those things. What I think is interesting, though, is the fact that she hasn`t had any visitors, right, except on December 26th?
PETRIMOULX: Well, she hasn`t had any visitors as far as family members or friends. Her lawyers come pretty regularly. I understand they didn`t come on Christmas. She spent the entire Christmas alone. But the day after her lawyers` visit, her lawyers visit her in jail pretty frequently.
CASAREZ: OK. Her lawyers visit her in jail. And so they should, because they are her attorneys.
When we come right back, we`ll talk more about this secret videotape, and could it really bust this case wide open? And are there more charges? Charges for the brother of Casey Anthony? That`s what his attorney is saying.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m a meter reader with Orange County, and I have the route today that included the Anthonys` home. I went down to the school and came back, and when I was coming back, I stopped between the two swamp areas there.
I noticed something that looked white, and there was -- I don`t know what it is, I`m not telling you, you know, it`s Caylee or anything of that nature.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I have no idea what it was, so I don`t want to waste anymore of the county`s money, but I`m just telling you I saw something.
I called this thing yesterday, and I don`t know if you (INAUDIBLE) looked at today or not. I went down and there was a (INAUDIBLE) behind one of the tree was -- it looked rather suspicious, a fallen tree and looked like someone tried to cut on it at one point.
But there was a white board hanging across the tree and there was something round and white underneath of it. I don`t know what it is, but it just didn`t look like something that should be there.
I`m a meter reader with Orange County. I had the -- I had the Caylee`s route Monday, and there is an area in between Suburban and down at Hidden Oaks. Elementary. There is a swamp area that I saw something that I called in a tip the other day, and they said they would dispatch an officer out to me when I got there. And I`m here.
This is Orange County utilities emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my gosh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know. We`ve got a -- is it a meter reader?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing? Skull of a -- I believe it`s human.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s the location?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s right off of suburban and Chickasaw in the Caylee Anthony area, right by the.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight.
The remains of Caylee Anthony, although they have been awarded to the family at this point, they remain in a funeral home. Her public, her private memorial has not taken place yet. We don`t know, I don`t think, when it`s going to happen.
To Mark Williams, any word at all on the defense team doing an investigation of the remains before that burial?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, there is supposed to be a second autopsy to take place, ordered by the defense team. Thus far, we don`t know if that has ever taken place.
They do remain at a funeral home here in Orlando, and again, we don`t know when the funeral service will take place. The private memorial service and then a public service. So we`re all waiting for that right now.
CASAREZ: To Dr. Marty Makary, Johns Hopkins University in Washington, D.C., we know through the medical examiner that there was no trauma to the skeletal remains. There was not a bullet, there was not a knife, there was nothing of trauma that led to those -- the skeletal remains being damaged.
What would be the benefit of the defense to go in and have an examination of the remains at this point?
MAKARY: Posturing, quite honestly. I mean, it`s a common tactic. We don`t trust the four experts and the FBI that did the autopsy. So we want to get our own team in there. And then when they -- you know, when that doesn`t happen, they can present that to the jury and say, see, we wanted to take a second look.
But the reality is that, you know, these are common stunts that people play with autopsy reports. The medical examiner did a great job, and she gave a very good report.
CASAREZ: And she did.
Brandy in Tennessee, good evening, Brandy. Thanks for waiting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. Thanks.
CASAREZ: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a comment and a question. My comment is to Leonard Padilla. In the beginning, I really didn`t like him when he got Casey out of jail, but he`s turned out to be a great guy and a good help with this case.
My question is, have they seized another computer from the Anthonys` home since the grandmother sent the e-mail regarding the hairbrush?
CASAREZ: All right. Good question.
Leonard Padilla, we`ll go to you. You do know so much about this case, you are extremely valuable, and our caller confirmed that.
What do you know about a second computer at all that was taken from the home?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, SEARCHED FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: Well, I don`t know about that. But what I do know is that Hoover`s cell phone, some still photos and the tape, according to what he told one of the media people in Orlando, have been confiscated by the FBI.
So they have that in their -- also, let me explain something. The meter reader on the 11th, 12th and 13th was about 600 yards off. The place where the kids used to congregate is not where they found the body.
They found the body at the end of a fence that comes right off the meter of the two -- hope spring and the street there where the body was found. They found the body at the end of a fence that comes right off the corner of the two, Hope Spring and the street there where the body was found. So they were off by about 600 yards.
When Dominic and Hoover were out there and Hoover was filming, was off by about 200, maybe 30 yards. Rob Dick is the one that can put more precise measurements to it.
CASAREZ: So how is that videotape going to help anybody, then, if it`s not the precise area?
PADILLA: Well, the body had to be found while Casey was in custody, which would have been the 11th, 12th and 13th. The tip had to come from Casey through a daisy chain to an unsuspecting meter reader that he was being used.
When the body wasn`t found because he was off by 600 yards, then the next thing is lay off because Padilla is getting Casey outs of jail. She went back into custody on the 14th of October. Subsequent to my fiasco up at the Little Econ. they sent Dominic and Hoover back out there.
Dominic`s specific -- Hoover says to me, Dominic says we found the body, we`ve got to go get her. Hoover asks him, is she alive, he says no, she is dead. But we have to go out there.
CASAREZ: And when was this? The date?
PADILLA: The 15th and 16th. Now, I saw the film myself. It says the 15th of November on it, but I know that things can be changed and is I know that, you know, these -- these things are for different purposes.
But I`ll tell you why Hoover filmed it, and that is because he was trying to sell it to media people from New York. I saw a lady there that I worked with on a murder/homicide/missing lady case back in Sacramento in `96.
Her purpose of being there is to buy film for NBC. There was another situation that came up where Hoover himself showed it to a couple of the local media people so I don`t know if they copied it or not.
One last thing. Dominic was not working for the attorney back in August when we were there. He was always represented to us as being an employee of the Anthony family. They always tried to get us to go see him, talk to him, meet with him. We never did. But he was always represented as being a private detective, hired by the Anthony family.
We always thought because of the name confusion that he was some kind of relative. He was not working for the attorney in those days.
CASAREZ: And when did the FBI get the videotape and still pictures you`re talking about from Jim Hoover or who took them?
PADILLA: My understanding is that they actually got it from him around the 17th or 18th of December.
CASAREZ: Of December.
PADILLA: Of December, yes. Somewhere in there.
CASAREZ: So they have -- very interesting. Jennifer.
PADILLA: They have the cell phone.
CASAREZ: Yes.
PADILLA: They have his pictures and also some still photos.
CASAREZ: OK.
PADILLA: . that he had. It`s important to them.
Jennifer in Canada, good evening, Jennifer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean, thanks for taking my call.
CASAREZ: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m just wondering, is it not possible that the FBI can match up the garbage bag that was found with Caylee, as well as the tape, and match that up to the garbage bags that are in her home by the run that the garbage bags are on? When they ripped the garbage it does it not match up to the other bags in their home as well as a duct tape.
CASAREZ: You better believe it. I was involved in a case with CourtTV that had to do with garbage bags, and an expert came in, took the stand as an expert witness, and demonstrated the striations that are in bags.
It`s amazing, when you hold them up to a light source, all these lines you see, and that can be matched up from bag to bag and show that bags came not only on the same assembly line, but on the same batch.
So you better believe that is definitely something that the prosecution can use not only for bags, but also for duct tape. That`s important evidence that I think a lot of people are forgetting.
Susan in California. Good evening, Susan. No Susan. We don`t have Susan.
When we come back, we will talk about and conclude all of the developments of the day. The developments that could actually change the course of this case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom said that we`re stronger than we ever have been and I truly believe that. And I know that we`ll make it through this. We`ll be OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight.
Well, the FBI may already have this videotape, cell phone and digital pictures from the videographer that says I shot the crime scene.
I`d like to go out to John Lucich, a forensic investigator. When you`re talking about a videotape and pictures, how easy is it to distort the date? Because if this man originally took the pictures and shot the video for money, that`s going to put his credibility into question.
JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": An expert is going to be able to find out whether that was edited or not. When you digitally enhance or digitally change something, experts can pick up on that without a problem, but when it comes down to it, that video -- you know, he`s just one of the -- these red herrings that are out there. Without maybe knowing it, this guy (INAUDIBLE) has become the glove that doesn`t fit.
CASAREZ: Hmm. All right. Joanna in Florida, you`re right in the state we`re talking about. Joanna, good evening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening.
CASAREZ: Your question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would like to know if Leonard Padilla is going to be called as a witness for the prosecution in the trial?
CASAREZ: Good question.
Leonard Padilla, are you on the witness list?
PADILLA: I`m not on the list, but I have no doubt that I`ll be called because of my connections with -- having gotten Casey out of custody. Tracy, the young lady that worked with me, spent 10 days with her, and there`s no doubt we will be called to testify as well as Rob Dick, possibly Kevin Gazinos (ph), Miguel and Toby, other people that were around Casey at the time.
CASAREZ: All right.
Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Corporal William McMillan III, who`s 22 years old, from Lexington, Kentucky. He was awarded a Bronze star on his first tour of duty.
McMillan served as a medic and he planned to start nursing school when he got out of the army. McMillan was a star athlete, and enjoyed wakeboarding and boating with his family. He married the love of his life. They planned to start a family together.
McMillan leaves behind his parents, William and Marge, sister Lauren, brother Brad and his beloved wife Elizabeth.
William McMillan III is an American hero.
Thank you so much for all of our guests tonight. Our biggest thank you to you for inviting us into your home. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern.
Good night, everybody.
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