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Israeli Ground Forces Enter Gaza
Aired January 03, 2009 - 17:52 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You know, after a week of air strikes, Israeli soldiers are on the ground in Gaza. The offensive now in its eighth day, has already left 460 people dead. That's according to Palestinian sources. But Israel says it hasn't reached its goal of crippling Hamas. Palestinian leaders warn Israel Gaza will be your cemetery. That is a dire statement.
And for more on these dramatic developments, I'm joined by Ambassador Reda Mansour, the Israeli Consulate General to the United States.
Thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate all of your expertise on this.
I want to go back to what our U.N. Correspondent Richard Roth said. It -- you -- it would seem that all of this, this meeting that's happening in less than 90 minutes, it all may be for naught because Israel will probably -- will probably defy any orders or anything that comes out of this meeting. Do you agree with that?
REDA MANSOUR, ISRAELI CONSULATE GENERAL: Well, look, so far the international community and the Security Council has been doing a great job to balancing the fact that they have to be concerned about any violence. But at the same time, stating their concern about the Israeli situation that was there before this operation in Gaza. And so, anything can come out of the Security Council. We don't know yet. This is an interest of different countries.
The most important thing for Israel is that we will do anything possible to defend our citizens. And right now, this is our first priority. That's why we went to Gaza. We were patient for eight years, waiting for this kind of international involvement, and solving the issue in peaceful means. It didn't happen. Right now, all we have left is a military option.
LEMON: What might make a difference as far as the United Nations? What could they come up with? What could they draft that might make a difference in this offensive, and to satisfy at least partially Israel, and also the Palestinians or Hamas? What might they draft to help in this situation?
MANSOUR: Well, look, they need to work for two issues that we also work for. And I think this is in the interest of the vast majority of Israelis, Palestinians, and the international community. They need to take care of a serious cease-fire, something that we've been hearing throughout the night. A serious cease-fire doesn't mean that sometimes you shoot, sometimes you don't. It means that you commit yourself to the cease-fire. And that you don't use the cease-fire to prepare yourself for another round. You don't stockpile missiles, and you don't build more tunnels and you don't prepare more and more capabilities. These are two points that I think we will have to achieve politically at the end of this process.
LEMON: Talk to us, Ambassador Mansour, about what this offensive is about. It is really about, at the very bottom of it, is stopping Hamas from getting weapons, at least close to the border, to the southern board of Israel, so that they can fire rockets, crude or advanced, whatever they might be bringing in, into southern cities, and then eventually reaching Tel Aviv, which is a large city. The rockets that they have now, you said, can reach the fourth largest city in Israel. Is that what this is about?
MANSOUR: This is exactly the situation. You know, we used to believe in simple cease-fire before. But right now, it doesn't work anymore. We know that cease-fire is making the next round much more difficult. We waited for five years after we left Lebanon, only to discover that Hezbollah is stockpiling and covered almost half of the northern part of the country. So we want to prevent this scenario from repeating itself in the south, instead of just waiting for them to stockpile, sending a message that this is not acceptable. Rockets have to stop full on the head of Israeli citizens.
Almost one million Israelis live in segments of 15 to 30 seconds. This has not been acceptable life that any country around the world I think will accept for its citizens, even if they're not being killed.
And I want also to protest this usage of numbers. Most of the people who are killed in Gaza are Hamas operatives. This -- of this, even Hamas is admitting. most of them are Hamas operatives. Israel is very different in its operation. We target Hamas operatives. And when citizens are killed, this happen by mistake. Hamas declares every minute that they are targeting Israeli cities and they're very proud and happy when Israeli citizens are killed. So these are two different playgrounds.
LEMON: A number of things I want to talk to you to about. This one real quickly, because we're going to - I'm going to bring you back to talk about more. But President-elect Barack Obama released a statement in Chicago saying that he is monitoring the situation. And there is one administration, one president at a time. He has already spoken out about this when he was in the region.
MANSOUR: I think President-elect Obama is the best example what happens when somebody goes to the region, stand up there in the middle of the road, and understands that, as he said, if my daughters, if my two daughters would be in this situation, where they will be showered by missiles, I will do anything in my power to stop it. It's the simple fact that I think most people around the world understand and don't need much, you know, explanation. And we expect them to continue this policy.
LEMON: Right. Israeli consulate general Ambassador Reda Mansour, we appreciate it. Thank you very much for that.
We're going to continue to follow this developing story today here in the CNN newsroom. You're looking at our continuing coverage of the crisis in the Middle East. I'm Don Lemon at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta. We'll have much more on this right after a break.
All right, we'll continue to follow this now. Breaking news out of the Middle East. We want to continue our coverage because the developments are happening at any second now. Israeli ground troops are on the move in Gaza. And they are going after Hamas militant targets.
Here's what Israeli forces there are doing. They started crossing into Gaza. That happened several hours ago. And Hamas leaders say the Israeli forces will be met with fierce and violent resistance. Explosions continue to fill the night skies in the region, including this huge blast caused by an Israeli missile strike.
U.N. Security Council has called an emergency meeting on the crisis. It's set to begin within the next hour, less than 60 minutes from now. And Palestinian medical sources now tell CNN that at least 460 Palestinians have been killed and more 2700 wounded since Israeli air strikes began eight days ago.
And of course, refuting some of those numbers here was our ambassador, who spoke to us just moments ago. And we're going to continue to speak with him as well as other experts on this story and on the region.
We're going to go now to CNN's Karl Penhaul. He is at the Rafah border crossing Egypt. And he joins me now by telephone. What are you seeing at the border, Karl?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, throughout the day at the Rafah border crossing, we saw Israeli jets going overhead and pounding targets in the southern part of the Gaza Strip. And now it's around 1:00 in the morning here local time. And what we can hear, we can hear heavy machine gun fire coming on the ground. That may be some kind of response from Hamas militants to the Israeli incursion. We understand from our media sources that one point of these incursions was about three - two or three miles from the point where we are now at border crossing. Overhead, we have heard Israeli helicopters. We've heard rockets going into positions from those helicopters. We continue to hear ground fire from heavy machine guns. And we also hear a predator unmanned drone flying overhead, presumably gathering intelligence on the source of that machine gun fire.
But I want to show you - a report we prepared earlier on in the day about the humanitarian situation here at the border and the kind of problems that medics are facing getting the wounded out of Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PENHAUL (voice-over): Smoke from an Israeli bomb rises above the southern Gaza Strip. A Palestinian ambulance ferries wounded through the Rafah border crossing for emergency treatment in Egypt.
Medics say this teenage boy, a civilian, had part of his left arm blown away in an Israeli air strike earlier in the week. But the worse cases must stay behind in Gaza's teeming hospitals.
ISMAIL ZAKIR, PALESTINIAN STAFF NURSE: We can't transport most of the cases, but (INAUDIBLE) need the sedation all time because we transport these cases here.
PENHAUL: I counted around 15 wounded Gazans brought to Egypt Saturday while we were here. The youngest, a four day old baby. Doctors say he wasn't wounded, but can only survive in an incubator no longer available in Gaza.
The number is a trickle considering Palestinian authorities say more than 2700 have been killed or wounded since Israel began bombing.
MANHAL EL MOUKAID, DR., PALESTINIAN DOCTOR: Fifty percent were injured within children and women.
PENHAUL: As the wounded trickle into Egypt, medical aid trickles out. Dozen truckloads of supplies have been sent by aid agencies in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, and Greece. This border crossing is open for just a few hours a day if at all. A few able bodied Palestinians desperate to protect homes or families are permitted to head back into Gaza, back into harm's way.
Israel blames Hamas rocket attacks for triggering hostilities, but this Palestinian staff nurse blames the rest of the world for turning its back on Gaza.
ZAKIR: Maybe some blame on Hamas, but there - the great blame on the world after see us what have been and not do anything.
PENHAUL (on camera): That's Gaza just a few yards away through that gate. And all day long, ambulances have been coming and going. And all day long, Israeli jets have been pounding positions just across the border.
(voice-over): As afternoon fades, the last of today's wounded head for safety. While an aid truck revs off into the danger zone.
And the smoke plume from another Israeli bomb rises just beyond the border post.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PENHAUL: Now presumably with the start of the Israeli grounding incursion, when the prospect of more casualties including more civilian casualties does rise substantially, Don.
LEMON: Hey, Karl, any idea if the Egyptians are going to let more people start crossing the border?
PENHAUL: This has really been the problem. So far, the Egyptians have been open to the wounded coming across, but the flow of wounded is controlled really by the Gazans as to how many they can get across in their ramchuk ambulances and how much fuel they've got for those ambulances. But so far, the Egyptians have said definitely no to a potential flood of human refugees coming across there. The fit and healthy to all intents and purposes we now have 1.5 million Palestinians trapped in Gaza. There's no way out for them. They're just going to have to sit this Israeli incursion out, Don.
LEMON: Karl Penhaul at the Rafah border, a crossing in Egypt. Thank you very much for that report.
A Hamas spokesperson responded to the Israeli incursion with a defiant statement on Palestinian television. He accused the Israelis of targeting civilians. And he vowed that Hamas will fight to the bitter end.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISMAIL RADWAN, HAMAS SPOKESMAN (through translator): To the Israeli army, your incursion in Gaza will not be a picnic. And we promise you that Gaza will be your cemetery, God willing. You have no choice but to end this aggression and this siege without any condition. You will not live in peace until our Palestinian people live in peace. We will not abandon the battlefield. And we will stay on the thorny course. And we will fight until the last breath.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, the Israelis of course have the opposite view. Defense Minister Ehud Barak held a news conference just a few hours ago. He said the Israeli ground assault will not end quickly, but he said it is necessary to bring peace to his country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EHUD BARAK, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER: We're peace seekers. We have restrained ourselves for a long time, but now is the time to do what needs to be done. We are determined to uphold our citizens what any citizens anywhere in the world is entitled to peace, tranquility, and freedom from threats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And for more on these dramatic developments, I am joined by Ambassador Reda Mansour again. He's the Israeli consulate general to the United States. Again, thank you for guiding us through this.
You heard Karl Penhaul say that there were a million Palestinians trapped and trying to cross the border there. Talk to me about that. And then I want to talk to you about the number killed, because you brought that up, and I think it's a very interesting point.
MANSOUR: Well, first of all, we believe that in Gaza, there is about 1.2 to 1.3, 5 million inhabitants, which by the way means I think we need to clarify for the viewers that more than 70 percent of the Palestinians has nothing to do with us. They live in the West Bank. The vast majority of the territory and the people on the Palestinian side are out of this story.
Now in terms of Gaza, Hamas has been playing even with the border crossing for the injured. We just heard that they control the numbers of the injured who can pass to Egypt. In Egypt, the Egyptians has prepared the whole city, medical city in Al Arish (ph). But Hamas told them if you either open the border for a freedom of movement for us, including support and supply for Hamas, or the injured will not pass. So right now, Hamas is holding all of these injured people as hostages and will not release them to Egypt if the Egyptians will not bow to their conditions and open the border for restocking of missiles.
LEMON: All right, do you also take issue with the number of people being killed, or the numbers that are being reported? You believe that they are inflated because the information that we're getting is from the Palestinian side. Do you think that these numbers are inflated, including the number of women and children and innocent people who were being killed?
MANSOUR: I have to tell you that we have to be very careful with these numbers. First of all, they come just from one side. You know, we can't verify it through any means. We have a history, where these terrorist organizations very cynically use these moments of unclear situation and inflate numbers. It happened in Lebanon. It happened in the West Bank a few years ago. They report sometimes hundreds of injuries, and at the end of the war, by the time you know, you know, people move on in the next news item. And a lot of these numbers are much accurate.
So I think we need some reliable international source on the ground to verify this. If they're so cruel not to let injured people pass the border into Egypt and get treatment, why won't they tell the world, you know, we have double the size of people killed just to explore some influence.
Look also, the only feed that you get right now, the Ramadan TV, the Palestinian one, show you only either general view of Gaza, or shots from hospitals. For eight days, Ramadan TV from Gaza didn't show you any Hamas operatives. I'm sure they're all over the ground there because they are totally controlled.
LEMON: You mentioned the pictures, but the pictures do show civilians. There are civilians in those pictures. So you can't deny that there are civilians that are being killed, which happens in any war. But you cannot deny that because the pictures are proof that it is happening.
MANSOUR: That's definitely. There are here bystanders who are being punished by Hamas and this war that they initiated. It's not that there is no civilian casualties here. But I want to say that still the vast majority of the injuries are Hamas operatives.
LEMON: OK, all right, thank you ambassador. Stand by, because we're going to be relying on you again. And also I want to tell you, you know, we want to know what your questions are, too, when it concerns this. You can send me an e-mail, or you can log on to any one of our platforms. You can send it to Twitter. You can send it to MySpace. Or you can send it to an I- report. Tell me what your questions are about this and we'll ask them to our experts. And we'll try to include some of them into our coverage if we see fit.
Meantime, we're going to take to you the border region there, and our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He's going to join us right after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Continuing coverage now of the crisis in the Middle East. Israeli troops again pouring across the border into Gaza just a few hours ago. And our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is among the few reporters there in the border region. And he joins me now by phone. He joins us now actually live with an update.
Nic, what can you tell us?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, we've moved since you and I last talked. We're now overlooking what is essentially the battlefield behind me. Just over this shoulder here is the north end of the Gaza -- north end of the Gaza Strip. And from there we've been hearing heavy machine-gun fire. Many, many detonations. Detonations it sounds probably from artillery fired. We know that the Israeli defense forces have mobile artillery pieces on the ground. We know that they've also been firing their artillery from tanks over this shoulder here further into the center of Gaza towards Gaza City.
We have seen also some very large explosions, flashes coming up, fires burning. It does appear to be an operation that has perhaps two areas. But at the moment, we don't know how many troops are involved, exactly the scope of this operation. There - I beg your pardon, Israel's Defense Minister Ehud Barak has said very clearly that this is an operation that could last some time, but it is aimed at taking control of those areas where Hamas has been firing its rockets into Israel. And from this same location we're at right now on the hills around here, we've been able to see just in these fields down here, we've been able to see where the rockets, where Hamas has been firing its rockets from. And that does seem to be the area that this operation is focused on at the moment.
How it will expand, if it expands, how many more troops could get involved, it's not clear. Also, no reports of casualties so far. But the very fact that we've been able to hear heavy machine-gun fire does seem to indicate, along with those heavy explosions, the machine-gun fire does seem to indicate that the troops may be coming in to quite close contact with Hamas. But we don't have details on the nature of the conflict and the confrontations on the battlefield yet, Don.
LEMON: Hey, Nic, are you witnessing any ground troops in the area that you're in?
ROBERTSON: Don, we can't see them from here. Some troops are patrolling around this area, but we have not been able to see, or we cannot see from the location -- the ground troops. I think if it were daylight, we'd certainly have a better opportunity with a long lens to pick them out, pick them out from the -- from what is essentially the battlefield now down there behind me. But because it's night time, we can't see them. They can't be too far away, because if they were, we wouldn't be able to hear those heavy machine guns.
It's quite a windy evening, so the sound coming up the area behind me is perhaps changed -- made harder to hear because of the wind. But we can still hear that machine-gun fire. So they cannot be so far away from where we are, Don.
LEMON: Yes, probably not daylight until four, five, maybe six hours from now. Nic Robertson reporting. Nic, we appreciate that.
Gaza is a relatively small but densely populated strip of desert along the Mediterranean Sea. And our Josh Levs has some maps to put all of this in perspective.
Josh?
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
LEMON: Thanks for doing this so that people can know exactly what is going on. And just -- it's a very small region. It's not that big.
LEVS: It's not. It's very small. In fact, I'm going to pick up right where Nic left off and try to give you some of the information we were trying to get there. I'm looking for the same information.
First of all, so I'm at the international desk. We're monitoring feeds from all over the entire area. And obviously, everyone here is staying in touch with our reporters and our producers at any news breaks. Whether it's now or throughout the entire night, we'll have it first right here on CNN.
Let's come over to this screen, because what I want to do is show you the simplest, clearest map that we've got of Gaza. And I'm going to talk to you about where Nic was and what we know about locations of the Israeli troops. Let's zoom right in.
I've mentioned this before. It's only twice the size of Washington, D.C. 1.5 million people living in this area. This is the northern section right up here. It's this general area where our Nic Robertson was speaking to us just now. But keep in mind how small this is. The fact that he behind him could hear fighting doesn't tell us if it's here or here or here or here.
This right here is Gaza City, one of the most populated areas in all of Gaza. In this section right here just north of Gaza City is one of the main places that Hamas uses to fire rockets into Israel. North or East. So we do know, based on what our Nic Robertson has seen, that there's some kind of fighting in this general section. Don't know how much.
Let me tell you one more thing. This entire borderline, Don, here, right here, this entire area with Israel, this border is only 32 miles. A lot of people have a longer commute in America. So when you think about what a small strip of land this is, you can realize that while we don't know from Israel where they're entering Gaza, it's small enough that wherever they enter, it could have potentially a big impact. And speaking of that, Don, I want to go to this cool Google earth video if I can. This is some animation that shows you one section of Gaza. We're starting off with this look. We're zooming in and we're going to go check out Gaza City, which is what I was just showing you.
And as we zoom in, here's what you're going to see, a ton of buildings in a very small area. Think about being troops, entering an area like that, where there's this huge a population packed together. I do not know -- we don't know if Israel's in the exact section we're looking at right now. We do know that Gaza is small enough that there's a large population in many areas. And if there is some strong number of Israeli troops entering the area or entering Gaza, it's quite possible that they will be dealing with areas where there are a large number of civilians.
One more thing, though, because I want to make sure you see both sides. We have another video here that's going to show you how close it is from Gaza, over to one of the cities that often gets attacked, which is called Ashkelon. It's just north of Gaza. And Don, Ashkelon is only seven miles north of Gaza. And that's only one of the many places in Israel that has experienced rocket attacks from Hamas. Seven miles up to there, but you can see other Israeli cities, as well.
And I'll show you on the map behind me. And we can end with that. Let's go to this map right here. This is Israel. This light beige area is where Israel is. This tiny little stretch right there, that's Gaza. You can see that's Ashkelon right there. They've also hit Ashdod, they've also east over to Beersheba. So Israel is saying., Don, that hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens are in danger of rocket attacks from Hamas. That's the area that Hamas uses, Gaza. And this section they say is in danger from rocket attacks, Don.
LEMON: Josh Levs manning things from our international desk.
LEVS: Yes.
LEMON: Josh, we appreciate that.
Israeli troops on the ground in Gaza. More on the ground assault next. And retired army Lieutenant General Russell Honore joins us live. And of course, he always has very interesting information. Moments away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: You're watching CNN breaking news, crisis in the Middle East. And we want to give you a quick update now on the breaking news in the Middle East. Israeli ground troops are on the move in Gaza this hour, going after Hamas militants who have repeatedly fired rockets into Israeli territory. Hamas leaders say the Israelis will be met with fierce and violent resistance, and vowed to turn Gaza into a cemetery for the Israeli military. Disturbing words there.
Heavy gun battles are reported in areas of Gaza. And explosions continue to fill skies over that region. An emergency United Nations meeting is scheduled for the top of the hour. And we will bring that to you right here in the CNN Newsroom as well.
Well, you know that ground assault was widely expected ever since Israel began massing its forces on the Gaza border just a week ago. I want to bring in now retired army Lieutenant General Russel Honore. He joins us here in the CNN Newsroom.
I want to ask you, what do you think that the offensive will unfold? How will it unfold over the next several hours? And interesting, interesting we want to talk about that, that this all happened under the cover of darkness.
LT. GEN. RUSSEL HONORE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Yes. I think the Israelis have a significant technical advantage at night with the ability, and the number of night vision capable armored vehicles and individual night vision capabilities. So they're going to do it to their advantage.
The other thing you see Israelis doing is flying illumination rounds. They also continue to fly the unmanned drones, as well as continue to use the attack helicopters that can operate at night.
So if you are in the Hamas army, you're faced with a ground assault. You're constantly being watched by UAVs. You've got attack helicopters, and fast movers coming in, signaling targets and going in and attacking. And now you have a ground assault that is supported by electronic warfare, by mortars, by tank fire, and by artillery fire. They're against a combined armed force that is one of the best in the world.
Now this is not the same war, or the same army that fought in 2006.
LEMON: Well, before we get to that, before we get to that, because I asked you how do you see this going, and where do you see it ending up, what do you see happening next with this?
HONORE: I see a significant assault in the north. Vicinity of where the missiles were primarily fired from. I see a possible assault from the center of the country. And one in the south to cut the route from Egypt into Rafah.
LEMON: The north would be to stop any rockets from going in. What is the central?
HONORE: The central would be to cut the supply lines, and to possibly create an objective. I think the center objective will be terrain oriented. The one in the north will be focused on Hamas and its missiles. And the one in the south will be designed to cut supply lines and chop any remnants of those tunnels that have been positioned along the Egyptian border.
LEMON: To keep Hamas from coming in and going out?
HONORE: That is right. And to control the entrance and exits of -- the one thing Israel has is it controls the 25-mile of coastal, the 30-plus miles of shared border with Gaza. So the only entrance and exit is through Egypt or through known Israeli crossings. LEMON: OK, so let's -- before we get to the 2005, the 2006, the 30-day war, let's talk about e-- we heard our Karl Penhaul saying that there were millions, at least 1.5 million people who were trapped. They can't get across the border to Egypt. They can't get across the border into Israel. Are these people trapped, the people who are not Hamas and who are not part of this war? Are they trapped in a battle zone and cannot get out?
HONORE: They're in a battle zone. That's why my perception, my best guess is, and again, don't know and wouldn't tell you if I knew the Israeli plan, but my best military judgment is they're going to go after those targets in the north and that piece of battle space that was used to fire rockets. They'll do some type of attack in the center. In other words, if you visualize a large area going in the center and one to the south. This will not be a full out 25-mile formal attack. They'll be going after specific objectives to put pressure to destroy supplies, and disarm those firing points.
LEMON: Again, one quick question, because we have to move on. You said this is different than 2006, than the 30-day War because they learned from that.
HONORE: They learned. They did additional training for their reserves. They went back to what they were the best in the world at, combined arms operation, integrating air and ground forces, operating together, as opposed to primarily an air force related effort. You're going to see a combined joint operation here.
LEMON: So is it fair to say that they in some sense have gotten their act together and that this, I don't know if it will last longer, some -- there are experts who say it could last longer or it could be shorter.
HONORE: Well...
LEMON: Maybe Israel has at least is -- I don't know, more up-to-date when it comes to fighting Hamas.
HONORE: Well, there are two things at what happened with 2000 -- Israel achieved its military and political objective, which was to stop Hezbollah firing missiles and attacking.
LEMON: But Hezbollah is still out there.
HONORE: They're still there. Different -- still on the battlefield. Again, these are their neighbors.
LEMON: Right. OK, thank you very much. We're going to be talking to you as well. We appreciate your expertise as well, so stick around. Retired Lieutenant General Russell Honore.
What should President-elect Barack Obama be doing about this situation? He is in Chicago right now and released a statement saying that he is monitoring the situation. We have heard that he is getting the same intelligence that the president is getting. Also, what is the current president doing about this? What should he be doing? Insight on all of that, plus new information next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: You're watching CNN. Our continuing coverage, breaking news, crisis in the Middle East. I'm Don Lemon live at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
We're following this breaking news out of the Middle East. And Israeli ground troops are on the move in Gaza in the cover of darkness. Now they're going after Hamas militant targets.
Israeli forces started crossing into Gaza several hours ago, again, by darkness. In a couple of hours, we'll get some light and we'll be age to find out what the situation is in daylight.
Hamas leaders say the Israeli forces will be met with fierce and violent resistance. Explosions continue to fill the night skies over Gaza. And Israeli troops could be seen crossing the border.
The U.N. Security Council has called an emergency meeting. It is scheduled for the top of the hour. We'll get the information from that and we'll bring it to you right here in the CNN Newsroom. You're not going to miss anything.
Let's talk about what Palestinian medical sources are telling CNN. They say that at least 460 Palestinians have been killed, and more than 2700 wounded since Israeli air strikes began eight days ago. Again, that's according to Palestinian officials.
Our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour is following the story. She joins us now from Jerusalem. And we spoke to her last hour about the timing of this offensive. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Israel is calling up thousands of its reserve officers as it continues with what's now become a ground offensive into Gaza. The Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak in a public statement said that their goal is to neutralize the Hamas rockets that have been coming out of Gaza and hitting into Israeli cities across the border.
EHUD BARAK, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER: We are peace seekers. We have restrained ourselves for a long time, but now is the time to do what needs to be done. We are determined to afford our citizens what any citizens, anywhere in the world is entitled to. Peace, tranquility, and freedom from threats.
AMANPOUR: And as the war continues, so does the war of words. As Ehud Barak was making his statement, so, too, were Hamas from inside Gaza. They said they would be defiant and continue the fight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): To the Israeli army, your incursion in Gaza will not be a picnic. And we promise you that Gaza will be your cemetery, God willing. You have no choice but to end this aggression and the siege without any conditions. You will not live in peace until our Palestinian people live in peace. We will not abandon the battlefield. And we will stay on the thorny course. And we will fight until the last breath.
AMANPOUR (on camera): The ground incursion comes after eight days of round-the-clock air strikes by Israel on targets inside Gaza. And this, too, has contributed to the drama of this ongoing war, because the pictures coming out of Gaza have inflamed the Muslim and the Arab world, also pockets in Europe and in the United States, as many of those who've been hit are children and women and other civilians.
More than 460 Palestinians in Gaza have been hit, according to sources there. And more than 2,000 have been wounded. A U.N. official inside Gaza said of all of those, at least a quarter have been civilians.
An Israeli government spokesman says that this ground offensive is not aimed at wiping out Hamas, but merely aimed, he says, at trying to stop them launching their rockets into Israel.
Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: That was our CNN senior international correspondent Christiane Amanpour. We want to tell you again that the United Nations is meeting at the top of the hour. We will bring that to you live. And CNN will have continuing coverage of this developing situation in Gaza. "LARRY KING TONIGHT" will be live. Our Wolf Blitzer will be filling in for him at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. And then at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, an extended version of the CNN Newsroom tonight here with me in Atlanta. We'll go from 10:00 p.m. Eastern to 12:00 a.m. midnight Eastern time. And then of course after that, our international unit will pick it up. And we will have continuing coverage on CNN. You won't miss any of it.
If anything escalates in that region, you can get it right here on CNN. So make sure you stay tuned.
In the meantime, President Bush is closely monitoring the crisis from the White House. And Kate Bolduan joins us from Washington. She has the very latest on that.
Kate, last time you joined us, you had a statement from the White House, from the State Department and also from the president-elect. Are we learning anything new from our leaders here in the U.S.?
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're definitely beginning to release statements as you can tell that they've been monitoring this situation as it's been developing today and I'm sure being pressed by the media to come out and make a statement, and have some reaction.
According to a White House spokesperson, President Bush was briefed this afternoon on the current situation in Gaza and the actions of the IDF. The spokesperson also saying U.S. officials have been in regular contact with the Israelis, as well as officials from countries in the region and Europe. Now earlier in his weekly radio address, President Bush condemned Hamas for instigating the violence. He, along with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice have called for a cease-fire, but one that comes with a long-term solution. Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Another one-way cease-fire that leads to rocket attacks on Israel is not acceptable. And promises from Hamas will not suffice. There must be monitoring mechanisms in place to help insure the smuggling of weapons to terrorist groups in Gaza comes to an end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: And the State Department has also put out a statement following the latest developments in Gaza. Spokesperson Sean McCormick saying the U.S. is still working toward a cease-fire and "that cease-fire should take place as soon as possible but we need a cease-fire that is durable, sustainable and not time limited." He goes on to say "we have expressed our concerns to the Israeli government that any military action needs to be mindful of the potential consequences to civilians."
Now on the ground assault specifically, Don, the White House has in recent days avoided taking a position, declining to comment on whether a ground attack would be or is justified.
LEMON: OK, Kate, any response, and I'm not sure if you'll be able to answer this meeting of the Security Council that's happening, the United Nations that's happening at the top of the hour, has anyone responded to that? Has the State Department weighed in, the president, the president-elect, anyone there in Washington?
BOLDUAN: Not quite yet. Not on this emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council. We do know that in terms of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, she was pressed yesterday about her travel plans, if she was at all thinking about traveling overseas to the region to try to broker a cease-fire. And the latest we heard is she was asked. She said not at this point. And you just don't know if those plans are changing or they're even thinking about changing in light of these recent developments.
LEMON: We've heard from our Barbara Starr last hour, Kate. She was reporting on the Pentagon. And from you, as well, saying that the president-elect is getting the same intelligence that the president is getting. And a very sort of strange situation since we are about to change leadership here about who exactly is in charge. We know that President Bush is, but this will soon be Barack Obama's situation or problem to deal with.
BOLDUAN: It absolutely will. We hear from the White House, the White House that Barack Obama, president-elect, is receiving the same daily intelligence briefings that President Bush is receiving. President Bush gave the nod and allowed that shortly after for the president- elect was elected. We're also told that any information that the president-elect is requesting, they are getting. A White House spokesperson kind of putting it, there's a very amicable and mutual relationship here in terms of sharing this intelligence information. I think you can assume that everyone is kind of realizing that this transition comes at a difficult time here domestically, as well as abroad.
LEMON: Yes, it's going to be a very interesting transition. And if this goes on much longer, as I said, this is going to be Barack Obama's problem to deal with.
BOLDUAN: Yes.
LEMON: Kate Bolduan, appreciate your information. Thank you so much.
BOLDUAN: Of course.
LEMON: In the meantime, we want to go now to the U.N. U.N. Dr. Riyad Mansour. He's a Palestinian ambassador to the U.N., I should say. And he joins us on this.
We've been hearing from the Israeli ambassador. The counsel here talking about the numbers of injured, the number of people killed, what the offensive is about. What are you hearing from people on the ground about the number of people killed? Do you stand by the number that it is upwards of 400, close to 500 people who have been killed in this region, sir?
RIYAD MANSOUR, PALESTINIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Yes, and close to 2,500 injured. It's a huge number of Palestinians killed and injured, about 3000 in one week. This carnage has to be stopped immediately. We should not allow this ground war to continue, so that we can talk about maybe 5,000 or 6,000 Palestinians killed and injured. This is immoral. This is illegal. This should not be tolerated. It should not be allowed to continue. It should be stopped immediately. And that's why we are in the Security Council, where we will start in a few minutes in formal consultation, the members of the council. And we hope that the Security Council will announce a demand for an immediate cease-fire from all parties, so that we can get down to the business of having a political resolution to deal with all other aspects of the situation.
LEMON: Even if the Security Council comes up with a resolution, or at least some sort of -- drafts up something that says that there should be an immediate cease-fire, we have been hearing from representatives in the area and also from our own reporters that Israel will likely, not for sure, or could likely, I should say, defy those orders, because they feel that they are under attack, and they will do whatever they can to stop the rockets from coming in to their region.
MANSOUR: Well, this is -- this is the truth standing on its head. The truth of the matter, we have 3,000 Palestinians being killed and injured during the span of one week. There is a sense of proportionality. International law would demand proportionality when you have armed conflict situation, meaning that if somebody from Gaza to fire a rocket, you don't go and unleash against them weapon of mass destruction. International law would call for the terms of proportionality. And Israel should not behave as a country above international law.
It should -- we should, all of us in the Security Council, and in the international community, bring them to the rule of law, and to abide by it. And they need to stop immediately this carnage and this aggression against the Palestinian people. And the cease-fire, immediate cease-fire, should be put in place immediately.
LEMON: You mentioned proportionality, because this has been said to be a David and Goliath situation with Israel being Goliath, but brought on by Hamas firing rockets indiscriminately. Crude rockets into Israeli -- into Israel sometimes daily, sometimes weekly. and people not knowing if they're going to be hit or where the rockets will fall. So you're saying proportionality. You think this is disproportionate to what Hamas has done already?
MANSOUR: I am not saying proportionality. That's what international law is saying. Should Israel be applying the law of the jungle? Or should we bring Israel into compliance with international law? And what would the conduct of what is acceptable by civilized nations.
International law is the one that calls for the element of proportionality. When you have conflict between nations or between countries, there is a sense of proportionality. You cannot go and kill and injure 3,000 Palestinians when you have four Israelis killed on the other side. That is immoral, that is illegal. And that is not right. And it should be stopped.
LEMON: OK. And you are at the U.N. Are you going to be at this meeting?
MANSOUR: Yes.
LEMON: And you're going to weigh in. How might you weigh in?
MANSOUR: I will not be inside the informal meeting, because this is a meeting for the 15 members of the Security Council.
LEMON: OK.
MANSOUR: But I will be talking to each and every member, including the president of the Security Council, so that the Security Council to exert its will and its political prestige to stop this carnage immediately. And I believe there is consensus in the Security Council - to - in calling all parties to stop this fighting immediately. And I hope the Security Council to prevail this time and to bring Israel into compliance.
LEMON: Let's talk about end game here. Do you agree that on both sides, there is wrongdoing on both sides? Is there a compromise that you are willing to accept if the U.N. does come up with that, if the Security Council does come up with a compromise? First of all, do you agree that there is blame to be placed on both sides?
MANSOUR: Well, we are working for a compromise text that calls for an immediate cease-fire, number one for putting an end to the blockade, and opening the Israeli crossings to allow for providing the people in Gaza humanitarian and economic needs. And then we need to have measures, practical measures, including having U.N. forces to provide protection for our people and to supervise the cease-fire to allow -- to allow it to be sustainable, and durable. All these elements should be reflected in a political resolution to be adopted by the Security Council and for all parties to abide by that resolution.
LEMON: OK, so the initial question I asked you, you said that there is some sort of compromise, but wrongdoing on both sides. It's not just one side that's to blame. Do you at least allow that?
MANSOUR: Well, we're saying that there is aggression against our people. There is occupation. We are willing, you know. We initiated two times in the past of unilateral cease-fire when the Palestinians stop firing anything from Gaza against Israel. The Israelis broke those cease-fires in the past.
This cease-fire that was brokered through Egypt and Hamas and other groups abided by that one, in fact, during the last six months before this cease-fire was broken only one Israeli was killed. It means that it was sustained through a very long period of time.
But you cannot continue to have cease-fire, and yet to have a blockade against Gaza, and to continue to block all the crossings from the Israeli side, to not allow the Palestinian people to have what they need in terms of humanitarian needs and the economic needs.
So the blockade needs to be lifted. And the crossings from the Israeli side needs to be regulated to guarantee that there will be open continuously.
LEMON: So I'll ask you in this way. What about Israel's claim that Hamas is firing rockets indiscriminately into Israel, and that's why this offensive was started?
MANSOUR: I think that Hamas and all Palestinian groups in Gaza will abide by the cease-fire and the (INAUDIBLE) if Israel to stop continuing its incursions...
LEMON: OK.
MANSOUR: ...and attacks against our people in Gaza. I think that they will abide by a cease-fire.
LEMON: Dr. Riyad Mansour. He's at the U.N. He's a Palestinian ambassador to the U.N. And as soon as you hear any information from that meeting, we appreciate you getting back to us. Thank you, sir.
MANSOUR: You're very welcome.
LEMON: How the Israeli incursion could affect President-elect barack Obama and his new administration. We'll discuss that. Plus more next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: In case you are just joining us, breaking news in Gaza. Israeli troops and tanks rolled into Gaza a short time ago for what Israel calls phase two of its offensive against Hamas.
Palestinian sources say at least 460 people have been killed in Gaza over the past eight days. And CNN has learned the U.N. Security Council has called a special meeting just about 30 minutes from now, really just a few minutes. Supposed to start at the top of the hour. If that does happen on time, we'll get that to you right here in the CNN Newsroom.
Now let's take a moment now to talk about how the Israeli incursion could affect President-elect barack Obama and his new administration. Patricia Degennaro joins us from New York. She's an adjunct professor of foreign affairs at New York University. Thank you so much for joining us.
PATRICIA DEGENNARO, PROF., NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: My pleasure.
LEMON: It's going to be a very tough handover in just a couple of days, how -- or handoff, I should say, or handover, any way you might want to put it. How might this affect the new administration?
DEGENNARO: Well, I think the first thing the new administration can do is be a little more vocal about the current administration, in saying, OK, well, yes, we're not in office now, we're not there yet, we haven't been sworn in, but they can be more vocal about, you know, more engaged diplomatic initiative.
I mean, Secretary Rice should definitely be traveling. She should be over there speaking to both parties. She should have been involved in the French initiative with Foreign Minister Livni. And so these are the things immediately that need to happen to put the Obama administration in a better place when it enters office.
LEMON: It does seem strangely quiet at this point, at least coming from the White House. We have not seen the president. We have heard from President Bush. We have not seen Barack Obama. We have heard from one of his representatives. We have not seen the defense minister or the secretary of state or any of those people.
DEGENNARO: Right.
LEMON: Actually had the secretary of defense here. But we have heard from the State Department. And we heard that the Pentagon is monitoring the situation.
DEGENNARO: Right.
LEMON: And that, you know, they have been alerted of it. But it's very interesting especially since this has escalated within the past two hours or so, maybe three hours, it has been strangely quiet, Ms. Degennaro.
DEGENNARO: Right. And I would agree with that. It's one thing to say we're monitoring the situation or making a statement, but it's another thing to get out there and start engaging.
Look, from the beginning, they should have been very aggressive in trying to prevent the land incursion, a continuous bombardment from the air. And to even talk to the Palestinians, and get President Abbas in the dialogue to say, OK, how can we stop these rockets from firing, and get back to the cease-fire agreement? You know, diplomatic engagement is more important to stop violence before it happens, because once the violence begins, this is -- it becomes incredibly difficult to go backwards.
LEMON: It's very interesting. And it's sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I mean, it's really a Catch-22 when you think about it.
DEGENNARO: Right.
LEMON: There is one administration at a time. So this is really a tough predicament for Barack Obama to be in. But you believe that he should be more vocal and out there in front of the cameras...
DEGENNARO: Yes.
LEMON: ...talking about what he plans to do, at least when he takes over. Is that what you're saying?
DEGENNARO: Well, I think that there's no reason why they can't talk a little bit about what their Middle East policy objectives are.
LEMON: OK.
DEGENNARO: But what I'm saying also is that I don't see any reason why they can't be more vocal about saying, you know, this particular administration needs to be doing its job. We're not sworn in yet. The inauguration has not happened. Making statements is not enough. They need to get out there and continue to do the job that they're in office until January 20th to do.
LEMON: OK. A yes or no answer real quickly.
DEGENNARO: Sure.
LEMON: Most important thing, get both sides talking, yes?
DEGENNARO: Absolutely. Get both sides talking. There is no two ways about it. It worked in Ireland. I know this is a different situation, but if you don't get them talking and get milestones on the table that are equal for both...
LEMON: OK.
DEGENNARO: ...you're going to have a long-term problem.
LEMON: And really, I had five seconds here.
DEGENNARO: Sure.
LEMON: Secretary of State, the incoming Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, her role in this now, should she have any? DEGENNARO: Oh, she's going to have a -- it's going to be an absolute responsibility for her. She's going to have to get into it right away. If this -- this is a greater Middle East problem. This is a situation for us to concentrate if we're going to do anything about Iraq...
LEMON: OK.
DEGENNARO: And then further move to Afghanistan, which he has promised.
LEMON: Patricia Degennaro, we appreciate it. Thank you very much.
DEGENNARO: Oh, my pleasure.
LEMON: We'll take you live to the U.N., where an emergency meeting is about to start. Our Richard Roth is there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The U.N. Security Council convenes in about two minutes for an emergency meeting on the Mideast crisis. CNN's senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth joins us now from the U.N.
Richard, what are you expecting?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well we're going to have some closed-door consultations and then there's going to be a move to adopt a statement. That has to be approved by all 15 countries. So to win U.S. support, which has been solidly behind Israel on this matter, the language will have to be very carefully worded.
There's a draft statement that's been circulating which says the Security Council expresses serious concern about the escalation after the Israeli ground offensive and calls on the parties to achieve an immediate and observe an immediate cease-fire and to stop all military action. There was already a stronger resolution that was on the books a few days ago. But now this may supersede activity. Don?
LEMON: All right, CNN senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth at the U.N., where that meeting is about to happen in just about a minute now.
We want to tell you CNN's live coverage continues all night. At 8:00 p.m., we have the Obamas. And then at 9:00 p.m., a special "LARRY KING LIVE." It will be hosted by Wolf Blitzer. That program will be live. And I'll be back with live coverage beginning at 10:00 p.m. Eastern to midnight, 10:00 p.m. Eastern to midnight. this crisis in the Middle East.
In the meantime, CNN has this worldwide resources working on this story. Our international desk is on top of it. Our international unit is on top of it. And you're looking at Ramattan television live from Gaza. CNN International will have live coverage all evening on this. We leave you now with coverage from our international unit, CNN International. We join them now in progress.
