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Nancy Grace
NANCY GRACE for January 6, 2009
Aired January 06, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl Caylee.
Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony`s home, confirmed those of Caylee. Manner of death? Homicide.
The little girl`s remains completely skeletonized making cause of death nearly impossible to determine. This, after a utility meter reader stumbles on a garbage bag and a tiny human skull literally rolls out, covered in light-colored hair, hair still intact due to thick duct tape wrapped around the child`s head.
Bombshell tonight, the shocking possibility, images of little Caylee`s remains may be sold, rears its ugly head. A judge expected to hear motions banning such a sale, but can he do it? Can it be stopped outside courthouse walls?
And tonight, reports surface of renowned psychic ID`d the crime scene before police even discovered Caylee`s remains and it`s all actually caught on video.
And tonight the tot mom`s defense team tries to duck the tough questions in a sworn deposition under oath behind bars.
Also tonight, tot mom gets a special OK to view little Caylee`s funeral on TV, but will it really happen? Is the jailhouse now putting restrictions on that TV viewing?
This, as Caylee`s remains reportedly sit all alone in a cardboard box at a funeral home.
When will this little child be laid to rest?
Tot mom Casey Anthony`s Christmas behind bars as her parents mourn little Caylee. The tot mom takes time to order up more treats for herself. Treats like, chocolate, expensive bottled water, a sketch pad for drawing, and a transistor radio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Orange County prosecutors are reportedly refusing to turn over three disks to the Casey Anthony defense team showing Caylees remains. According to reports, the disks include x-rays and photos of her body and were expected to be turned over to the defense.
However, reports say the state has now filed a new motion expressing concerns that the images will be reproduced and sold if they are given to the defense. Prosecutors want the judge to play special restrictions on images of the remains before they are given to Casey Anthony`s attorney, Jose Baez.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s so sick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s close.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Psychic Gale St. John who assisted in the search for Caylee says she was at the remains` site back in August, and took video of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, there`s no logic, yes. You know what, you know how easy -- if you have a good dog. You didn`t have people who knew what they were doing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meanwhile a showdown in court occurred today, where a judge reprimanded tot mom Casey Anthony`s defense team for personal attacks against the lawyers for Zenaida Gonzalez who has filed a defamation lawsuit against the tot mom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, Hollywood mega star John Travolta and his family travel to their luxury home in the Bahamas when tragedy strikes. Travolta`s young son suffers an unexpected death. The body already cremated. The family back in the U.S.
Tonight, reports the Travoltas will be questioned by authorities about their son`s death. Why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A family of four, suddenly three. The question is, why? The death certificate lists seizure as cause of death but we may never know all the details.
JOHN TRAVOLTA, ACTOR: That one is rarely a thing to deal with but it`s called Kawasaki syndrome. It`s very easily handled, difficult to identify. And we did and it was handled within 48 hours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hollywood couple John Travolta and wife Kelly Preston will reportedly be interviewed as part of the investigation into the death of their son Jett, who died Friday.
According to reports, Travolta and Preston are expected to be questioned about their son`s medication as part of routine inquiries into his death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The lawyer said Jett was on anti-seizure medication for years. It reduced the seizures initially but eventually they returned. It`s unclear if any medicine could have prevented the seizure that killed him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The family returned to their Florida home late last night after receiving after receiving an urn containing the ashes of 16-year-old Jett.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The funeral director in the Bahamas says there was no sign of head trauma. But Travolta`s lawyer said Jett fell to the bathroom floor striking his head on the bathtub.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The lawyer said the nanny found Jett and that he may have still been alive when his father started CPR. Jett was pronounced dead at the hospital but the lawyer told "Us" magazine he believes John Travolta had a chance to say good-bye that Jett may have died in his dad`s arms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Tonight a stunning bombshell. Are individuals planning to sell images of little Caylee`s remains? Can it be stopped?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to reports, prosecutors are trying to prevent disks containing x-rays and photos of Caylee`s remains for being released to the public. The state was supposed to turn over documents pertaining to the remains over to the defense this week but are withholding at least three disks of information reportedly containing x-rays and photos of the skull and bones of the toddler.
An Orlando station is reporting that the Orange County district attorney`s office has filed a new motion asking the judge to place special restrictions on the images before they are turned over, including a restriction on who Baez can show the images to.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Worried all the people around, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A psychic who had searched for Caylee claims she was at the remains site back in August. And the cadaver dog that was with her showed heavy interest in the area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A school is here. (INAUDIBLE) down this search.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the senses.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was searched by cadaver dog.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can only go so far as the water, you know what I mean? It`s very close.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Also today a judge is soon expected to rule on whether tot mom Casey Anthony will be deposed Monday in the defamation lawsuit filed against her by Zenaida Gonzalez.
The Anthony defense team is seeking to delay the deposition until after the tot mom`s criminal trial where she could be facing the death penalty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Drew Petrimoulx standing by at funeral home where little Caylee`s remains are being warehoused. He is joining us from WDBO.
Drew, first of all, what do you know about the possibility that individuals are planning to sell, to reproduce and sell images of little Caylee`s remains?
I brought this up last night and everybody poo-pooed it and now it`s an issue.
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Right, and that`s what the state attorney`s office wants to prevent. They filed a motion today that will limit who the Baez law firm can show these released photos to and also will limit them from reproducing them.
Their fear that they will reproduce them and sell them for a profit. If you remember earlier in this case, some video and pictures of Caylee were sold for a profit. And now they`re worried that that could happen again so they basically want to prevent that.
GRACE: OK, Drew, you`re referring to a time earlier in the case, as you generically referred to it, be specific. What do you mean? Earlier in the case, photos were sold. Money was made. What happened?
PETRIMOULX: It`s kind of shaky on who actually received the money. There had been reports that the Baez -- the Baez defense team did receive six-figure payments for videos and pictures that were sold to a national TV network, and then shown on TV.
They can`t -- we haven`t been able to prove that this money was received or paid for but we do know that the images and video were seen on national TV.
GRACE: And what video and photos were they specifically, Drew Petrimoulx?
PETRIMOULX: They were of Caylee. I -- think you`ve seen photos of her playing in the pool around the house, playing with the grandparents. It was those photos and video that were released to the media that you have to think has got the state attorney`s office thinking that if they released these -- three CDs with pictures of that crime scene they`re afraid that something similar to what happened earlier in the case, where they were sold for a profit, could happen again. And they want to file this motion to block the defense team from selling these pictures.
GRACE: You know, Drew, I brought up last night the question as to whether there was any special security at that funeral home. And I -- refer back to the Anna Nicole Smith case where they even had the windows boarded up with some type of covering so tabloids -- or, anybody, reporter, anybody, not just the tabloids, couldn`t get a long lens and get a shot in there of the room, the box, who knows what.
How are her remains being stored, Drew Petrimoulx?
PETRIMOULX: They`re being stored, we understand, reportedly, right behind me. And we talked to a forensic pathologist who said they would be stored in a cardboard box and then they kept cold and refrigerated to prevent further decay.
I don`t know if that`s even possible with the remains -- the condition of the remains ion this case, but we understand that they`re right behind us reportedly and that they`re being kept in some kind of cooler.
GRACE: To Natisha Lance, our producer, who`s been on the case from the very beginning-- Natisha, there`s not going to be any further degeneration. The remains were already completely skeletonized.
So what`s the hold up? Why are Caylee`s remains reportedly sitting alone in a cardboard box? Why not a funeral? What the hay`s going on?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the hold up, Nancy, is the second autopsy that`s supposed to be performed by the defense team. Now the Anthonys wanted to wait until after the second autopsy before they have their public memorial as well as their funeral -- their private funeral for Caylee.
GRACE: OK, hold on. Maybe I need to rephrase it for you, Natisha.
LANCE: Mm-hmm.
GRACE: We all know that they`re waiting for a second autopsy. What`s the hold up with the second autopsy? Why don`t they do an autopsy?
LANCE: Well, Jose Baez had said previously that the holidays were one thing that were preventing them from moving forward quickly -- or as quickly as possible.
GRACE: Yes, well, those are over.
LANCE: Well, that`s a good point, Nancy. But as of this point, no second autopsy has been done yet and we`re still waiting to find out when it will happen.
GRACE: Dr. Saunders is with me, Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, joining us out of New York. You don`t have a problem with that?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy.
GRACE: You`re just letting remains sit in a cardboard box. I mean, really, that`s your child. I would say to hell with the second autopsy. Even if I can`t go to the funeral, I want her buried.
SAUNDERS: Well, that`s because you`re a normal mother. And we don`t have too much evidence that Casey Anthony is. This is a callous, really callous detached abomination to treat the baby`s memory like this.
GRACE: I want to go to Dr. Michael Arnall, forensic pathologist joining me out of Denver, Colorado right now.
Dr. Arnall, the body`s skeletonized. What are they going to get out of a second autopsy? And how difficult is that?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, they`re going to hire their own forensic anthropologist. And that forensic anthropologist is going to examine all the marks on those bones to determine whether there might be any evidence of pre-morbid injuries.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What street?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on, make it some kind of.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, we got to pull over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The dogs are getting sick back here. Keep the.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not one stuff under, so I can pull here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stay here.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wouldn`t be this close to home, would she?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t write the book on (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, she`s mentally unstable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This area was searched by.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You`re actually seeing video of the search by a renowned psychic, the host of "The Body Hunter," Gale St. John, of their search and they actually came to the location unbeknownst to them where Caylee`s remains were and suddenly, as you can see on this video taken before the remains were found by police, got ways of nausea, disturbed feelings, got out of the car.
Joining me right now, exclusively, Gale St. John, she was at the crime scene months before the remains were found.
Miss St. John, thank you for being with us. What did you experience when you got to that location?
GALE ST. JOHN, CLAIMS SHE WAS DRAWN TO CRIME SCENE BEFORE TOT BODY FOUND: Well, it`s pretty phenomenal and I`ve had it happen before in the case when there`s bodies. It was, like, someone punched you in the stomach. It knocks the air right out of you. You feel like you can`t breathe and -- it`s almost an utter panic feeling.
GRACE: And you actually were videoing it, why?
ST. JOHN: Whenever we do the blind drive on a case that is what generally something that we video for our own use.
GRACE: Your own use for what?
ST. JOHN: So we can look back at it and -- talk about what we`ve experienced during the blind drive. Did we feel that we were on the location or we`re not feeling something on the blind drive?
GRACE: Now we`re seeing on the video you took -- you actually get out of the car with a dog and you go searching?
ST. JOHN: Yes. One of our team members got out. I went down a little bit further to see if the feeling got stronger or weaker.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at this video. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My stomach.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is it, Travis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sick.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, it`s close.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, there`s no logic, yes.
You know what, you know how easy if you didn`t have good dogs, didn`t have people who knew what they were doing.
What street, Suburban. Here comes a car. This is -- go up further here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Try up further. Let me shut my door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whether it be evidence, drive.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something`s not right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something is not right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, with me tonight exclusively, Gale St. John, renowned psychic and host of "The Body Hunter."
Again, explain to me exactly what you experienced when you got to the location where Caylee`s remains were later found.
ST. JOHN: Well, when we turned onto Hope Spring onto Suburban I immediately began to feel that sinking, can`t breathe feeling, as if I got punched in the stomach, nauseated and just panicky.
You feel like you can`t breathe. And obviously behind me at the same time was Travis going through some of the same sensations, which he`s one of our apprentices. And the dogs were reacting.
GRACE: And you actually got -- somebody in the car actually got nauseous when you got to the location?
ST. JOHN: Yes. Yes. And that`s the feeling that goes with it when you, when you come upon a body, that`s frequent.
GRACE: Did you alert police?
ST. JOHN: Did I alert police at that moment, no, I did not alert.
GRACE: No, at some juncture, did you tell police that you had come to this location and felt very strongly about it?
ST. JOHN: No, we had not been taken seriously when we were there.
GRACE: OK.
To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI, former D.C. cop. Mike, why is it that police -- I know as a former prosecutor, I did not take psychic seriously. Only for one reason, not necessarily did I discounted them, but because I knew I would likely not get the evidence into trial, and if I did get it in before the jury, then it would be mocked by the other side. And it could then taint my legitimate evidence. And it could hurt the case.
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Yes.
GRACE: More than it helped the case. Whether I personally believed in it or not, I had to do what`s best for the case. But why do police typically discount psychics? I mean this was months before the body was found.
BROOKS: Because, Nancy, most -- most investigators, most trained investigators who have -- who had information -- usually turns out to be nothing.
I`m sorry, I don`t believe in the whole psychic, using psychics in a case. I`ve heard, you know, they give information. Most of the information doesn`t pan out and my other question is, how many other of these "feelings" did she have around this area during the time that she was out there searching?
I mean I see the dog. It doesn`t look like the dog was on the track. It looks like the dog is looking back at the person taking the video. And you hear on the video, turn on the air-conditioning because the dog`s getting sick. So you know sick dog, hitting on something? I`m not buying it, sorry.
GRACE: OK. So you don`t buy it.
BROOKS: No.
GRACE: But they felt strongly enough to get out of car.
BROOKS: Then they should have called the police.
GRACE: And take the dogs out and actually start searching.
BROOKS: Right.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Susan in Georgia. Hi, Susan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello. How are you?
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, earlier you mentioned that Caylee, there may be some restriction on her television watching? What kind of precipitated that? Or you know what.
GRACE: No, it`s actually on a possible restriction on whether she may view the funeral if it is televised.
Natisha Lance, have there been updates in that?
LANCE: There have been some updates, Nancy. Actually if Casey is able to watch this on television, on local TV, she`d have to do it during her hour of free time. Now it`s a possibility that she`ll be able to watch it. But what we`ve also learned is that Casey has a -- radio in her cell where she can listen to 24 hours a day. It`s something that she was able to purchase from the commissary for about $21.
It -- has a clear face on it so that there`s nothing that can be concealed in it. So those are some of the possibilities right now. Nothing in terms of any type of special permission that would need to be granted but these are things that the jail would take into consideration at that time when it occurs.
GRACE: Out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Nikki, the state has actually -- is actually concerned enough that images of Caylee`s remains are going to be reproduced and sold.
What do you know about that? Why is the state so concerned? And is the judge hearing a motion on it?
NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: A judge will be hearing a motion on it. This was just filed in the last hours, reportedly. They basically said, look, we have three disks that are full of pictures of Caylee`s remains, of x-rays, of the autopsy. And we`re ready to turn them over, as you requested.
But we have some serious reservations about this, because obviously somebody made a significant amount of money on live photos of Casey and live video. We don`t want them do the same thing now that she`s deceased and it`s always a possibility so we want to make sure that you, the courts, put some restrictions on Jose Baez so that he doesn`t go out and do these things.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls live.
Standing by is Drew Petrimoulx there at that funeral home, reporting that there is no additional security whatsoever guarding Caylee`s remains.
Very quickly, let`s go to tonight`s "Case Alert." Police searching tonight for 2-year-old Edwin Rosario missing since last Friday, (INAUDIBLE) U.S. Virgin Islands. Possibly in the accompany of an adult female, in need of medical attention.
If you have info, please contact police at 340-712-6026.
Also, police searching for 5-year-old Javante Griffin, 1-year-old Israel Griffin. Both missing since Friday. Police believe they were taken from paternal grandfather`s home in Missouri City by 29-year-old La Quanda Williams.
Anyone with information, please contact Missouri police, 281-403-9700.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this is the school they said they searched at?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They said they searched in the area by the school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, show us what you were going to say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the school, guys.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the elementary school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But this whole area has been searched.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Liars. Liars. Yes, they searched it, they missed something.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m trying to think of a 4-year-old girl is in all of this brush, something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Raymond Giudice, trial lawyer out of Atlanta, Doug Burns, veteran trial lawyer out of New York.
Ray Giudice, it`s pretty bad when a judge has to warn the defense not to sell images of the dead victim.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, look, Nancy the discovery is not for commercial use, I agree with you. Baez should get in there with the judge and the D.A., do a consent agreement that there is no secondary use of this. It`s not uncommon in cases where there are sexually explicit images. It should be done.
GRACE: Doug.
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I was just going to say in child pornography cases, basically, you have to go in as a defense lawyer and sit there with the agents, with law enforcement, and go over the materials. So it`s totally reasonable to limit it by either making them come in and look at it with law enforcement, or else make sure they don`t disseminate it.
GRACE: Also with us tonight, Jon Morgan, attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez. He`ll be taking your calls live when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had a call to the sheriff`s office regarding a discovery that was made by an Orange County meter employee. What gone into the woods, a bag was found there and skeletal remains were found at the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A skull of, I believe, is human.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s the location?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right off of Suburban and Chickasaw in the Caylee Anthony area, right by the school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ooh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: St. John claimed she was there the same day as meter reader Roy Kronk when he initially called police August 11th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) that goes from like there, where the start of the road is down at the school and between it on either side there is a swamp and if you`re heading back out towards the main road on the left-hand side in an area, I noticed something that looked white and there was -- I don`t know what it is, I`m not telling you it`s Caylee or anything of that nature.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And since the cadaver dog that was with her showed a heavy interest in the alleged wooded area where Caylee`s remains were later discovered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am immediately cold here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wouldn`t this close to home, would she?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live.
Right now to John Morgan the attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez. He planned to depose tot mom Casey Anthony behind bars and ask her some tough questions. So far the defense has ducked that deposition.
Why?
JOHN MORGAN, ATTORNEY FOR ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, PLANNING TO DEPOSE CASEY ANTHONY: Well, they want to have their cake and eat it, too. On one hand, Casey has filed a countersuit, believe it or not, against Zenaida.
GRACE: For what?
MORGAN: Well, for mental anguish. They don`t even lay out damages but as Keith (INAUDIBLE), who probably -- is my partner, probably the number one defamation attorney in -- Florida, said today, look, you can`t, you can`t have a sword, the defamation lawsuit, and then pull out a shield and say, and by the way, you can`t depose me.
You cannot have your cake and eat it, too.
GRACE: In other words, you can`t depose me but I`m going to sue you.
MORGAN: Exactly.
GRACE: Gotcha.
MORGAN: And -- you know, I`m going to pull out a sword and I`m still saying there`s a Zenaida Gonzalez.
GRACE: I got it. I got the whole sword and shield thing.
John, what`s likelihood you`re going to get to depose her before her criminal trial?
MORGAN: I think it`s likely the judge, the judge.
GRACE: She`s just going to take the Fifth Amendment.
MORGAN: She may but there are other questions that we can ask. I don`t know how she`s going to take the Fifth Amendment and follow a lawsuit. I mean she`s going to have to follow a lawsuit and answer questions or not.
But more importantly, Nancy, what we look forward to is for Zenaida Gonzalez to get to sit there across from her to confront her and to say, is this the Zenaida Gonzalez you`re talking about? And if not, please describe it.
Zenaida Gonzalez is the real victim along with the little girl and Zenaida Gonzalez needs closure and she`s looking forward to that day on Monday.
GRACE: You know she`s really been dragged through the mud.
Let`s unleash the other lawyers. We`re taking your calls live. Raymond Giudice, Doug Burns.
Out to the lines, Heidi in Indiana. Hi, Heidi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I want you to know how much I admire you and everything that you do for justice. Thank you.
GRACE: You know what, I do not deserve that but thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You do.
GRACE: . for the compliment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, my question relate to the November video of the crime scene by the P.I.`s. I`ve heard comments made on why they were videotaping the scene.
Is it possible they could have planned to maybe move the body in the future? Leonard Padilla had said that the comment by the P.I. was, we are going to go get Caylee.
GRACE: You know, let`s throw that to Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who first put up the bond for the tot mom then came off of the bond, then began a long search for the remains of little Caylee.
What about it, Leonard?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED LOOK FOR CAYLEE: Hoover told me that when Dominic called him, he says we`re going to go get Caylee. Hoover asked him, is she alive? And Dominic says no, she`s dead.
I don`t know anymore than -- what they said at that point. But let me add something here, Nancy.
GRACE: OK.
PADILLA: Kronk was out there on September the 2nd or the 3rd.
GRACE: Oh are you back to the meter reader as part of the conspiracy?
PADILLA: No. Listen to this.
GRACE: It doesn`t even make sense.
PADILLA: Listen, there was also three meter readers out there.
GRACE: It`s part of a.
PADILLA: . the same day that St. John was out there.
GRACE: If you`re part of some evil conspiracy.
PADILLA: No, it`s not evil.
GRACE: . why do you call police?
PADILLA: It`s not evil, it`s just fact.
GRACE: OK.
PADILLA: There were three meter readers out there, three of them.
GRACE: What`s your theory? How is Kronk somehow part of a conspiracy? Go ahead and tell me.
PADILLA: Well, we know that the defense is the one that`s benefiting by the confusion right now as to the finding of the body and how it was found.
How did somebody get word to Kronk to get out there? I think he was the end of a daisy chain that started with Casey and two or three people in the middle there. And -- I mean he says he saw something white out there.
GRACE: How would a meter reader be privy of information from the tot mom behind bars?
PADILLA: His supervisor is a neighbor of the Anthony`s.
GRACE: Listen, in my experience, limited as it is, conspiracies do not hold up.
Do you agree, Giudice and Burns? First to you, Burns? Somebody cracks. I mean that`s quite a daisy chain from the jail. Somebody is going to blurt out, we got this from the tot mom.
BURNS: No, I agree with you, even though I`m supposed to be the defense lawyer, Nancy, but in all seriousness, I just don`t see all of these wild theories about this meter reader. And furthermore, I don`t think that it impacts a heck of a lot on the case.
GRACE: Well, I agree with you partially.
Ray Giudice, I think that it can impact the case because his discovery is going -- will be attacked by the defense at trial.
GIUDICE: Yes. Yes.
GRACE: How?
GIUDICE: Well, Nancy, let me just say I agree with you and Doug. The prosecution needs to stay on their, their mantra. The Body Farm, Quantico. The Florida Bureau of Investigation. Real science.
Let the defense raise these red herrings.
BURNS: Right.
GIUDICE: The prosecution should stay on. This is a homicide case, not some kooky conspiracy obstruction case.
GRACE: I want to go back to Dr. Michael Arnall, board certified pathologist, joining me out of Denver.
Dr. Arnall, how are skeletonized remains typically stored at a funeral home?
ARNALL: We when we receive them, we would receive them in just a typical bank box. They put them in a bank box so then.
GRACE: A bank box which is a what?
ARNALL: Just standard box that`s probably at one-foot by one foot by one foot.
GRACE: Cardboard, metal, what?
ARNALL: Just a cardboard box. Just a light cardboard box with handles and we would leave it in our cooler.
GRACE: And Dr. Arnall, how long do remains typically sit there until they are claimed and a funeral is held?
ARNALL: If -- if the remains aren`t identified they may remain in a cooler for.
GRACE: If they`re identified?
ARNALL: If they`re identified then the family would go ahead and proceed with the funeral. In this case the family thinks they may draw an advantage from a second examination so I -- can understand why they might wait for a second forensic examination.
GRACE: OK, hold on.
Drew Petrimoulx, when did police discover the remains? What day?
PETRIMOULX: Would the -- did the meter reader discover? We were talking about December 11th.
GRACE: No, police, police. December 11th is when police went out and found the remains.
OK, according to my estimation, let me just check this to be sure. Today is January 6th. We`ve got almost a month here.
What`s the hold up, Drew Petrimoulx? These remains, Caylee`s remains, all that`s left of this little girl sitting in a cardboard box? Drew?
PETRIMOULX: That`s exactly right. And the -- hold up, Nancy, is that there has to be another examination of those remains by the defense experts, Dr. Henry Lee, and some of the experts that they have hired on the team.
GRACE: I know that, but what are they waiting on?
PETRIMOULX: You have to ask the defense team that and, Nancy, honestly, they`re not answering questions right now. So we don`t know. It is a good question. What has taken so long to examine these remains. It`s a question that we haven`t been able to answer.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Dawn in Kentucky. Hi, Dawn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, the defense is sticking to the story that Zanny the nanny did it.
Why wouldn`t the defense immediately get a sketch artist in and show us a picture of this Zanny the nanny?
GRACE: What about it, Mike Brooks?
BROOKS: There is no Zanny the nanny, period. Plain and simple. It was just a figment of her imagination. And you know we`ve -- heard a lot of stories come out of her mouth, Nancy.
GRACE: And how would it have hurt the case, Ray Giudice, if the defense had put out that sketch?
GIUDICE: Well, Nancy, number one, I think it might even be borderline obstruction of justice. The defense actually knew no such person existed. Secondly, it`s going to lead to just countless, effortless tips, arresting and pulling over people like this poor lady who`s filing suit that fit that description.
GRACE: Doug Burns?
BURNS: Man, it`s a total red herring and the fact of the matter is, is that back to my earlier point, while everybody wants to get all exercised about the meter reader and the finding of the body, the real prosecutorial angle, of course, is all of the false statements and consciousness of guilt that you`ve been talking about very correctly for months.
GRACE: Well, you`re seeing a shot of tot mom behind bars who took the time to order up treats for herself, chocolates, expensive bottled water. She`s tuning in through a transistor radio. There you see those shots right now.
Everyone, as we go to break, I want to thank, personally, the wonderful doctors and nurses at Coliseum Northside Hospital in Macon, taking care of my mom, Elizabeth, surgery, today.
Mother, please, get well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Travolta and his wife, Kelly Preston, have returned to Florida with the remains of their 16-year-old son.
Jett Travolta was found unconscious late Friday morning at the couple`s vacation home in Grand Bahamas.
The teen, who`d been chronically ill for the last several years, reportedly collapsed in a bathroom and was found by a caretaker.
Authorities in the Bahamas performed an autopsy yesterday. An undertaker telling the Associated Press seizure was listed as the cause of death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Tom O`Neil with "In Touch Weekly." Tom, why are the Travoltas going to be questioned?
TOM O`NEIL, IN TOUCH WEEKLY: Well, Nancy, now that we have a cause of death, seizure, the question is, was he being properly treated for this? There are medications for epilepsy. Many, of course. We know that he was being given a drug for.
GRACE: But why would you say epilepsy? There`s no indication he was epileptic.
O`NEIL: Seizures are tied to epilepsy and if this -- would also had.
GRACE: So?
O`NEIL: Well you have to ask the medical people if I`m using the right terminology or not, but he had -- but the point is, was he being given the proper medication and proper treatment procedures?
GRACE: Ken Baker, joining us with -- from E. He is their executive news editor.
Ken, you can add to that?
KEN BAKER, E! EXECUTIVE NEWS EDITOR: Yes, well, first of all, we don`t know that the Travoltas are going to be questioned in this investigation. That report is unconfirmed. We just spoke to a representative for the Travoltas who said they had no comment. That police aren`t commenting or confirming that report.
It came from a British tabloid. So from here out, at least E! News, we`re not reporting that they`re being questioned.
Now are there questions that are arising out of this tragedy? Yes. A lot of people are wondering in a non-criminal way, and away from the police investigation, why he had a seizure and why he wasn`t under medication at the time, and if that could have prevented him from his fall, and -- ultimately dying from the seizure.
So -- but that`s a separate thing from them being asked to come in and be questioned by the police. We don`t know if that`s t true or not.
GRACE: To Dr. Keri Peterson, he`s in internal medicine at Lenox Hill Hospital. Doctor, thank you for joining us.
DR. KERI PETERSON, INTERNAL MEDICINE, LENOX HILL HOSPITAL: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: Dr. Kerry, when there is no investigation going on, are family members -- and you`re trying to determine cause of death. Are family members typically questioned?
PETERSON: They can be, of course, if they were witnesses to any events before or after the death. They can provide very useful information. So they may be able to help investigators determine the cause of death.
GRACE: Dr. Peterson, if the body was not autopsied until -- substantially until after the death.
PETERSON: Mm-hmm.
GRACE: . would bruises still show up on the body?
PETERSON: It`s possible. Well, this is difficult to talk about, but when a person expires, the skin color does change. It can become more purple. So it can mask the bruises. But as we know bruises can be many shades of purple and they can show through the skin discoloration.
GRACE: But, Dr. Peterson, even if the skin has become discolored with passing time, postmortem, wouldn`t a -- an autopsy, which goes under the skin, show the hemorrhage, in other words the bruise?
PETERSON: That is absolutely correct. It certainly will. And in an autopsy they`ll look at it under the microscope and they certainly can see blood deposited in the tissue, which is different know that the discoloration of the skin that occurs postmortem.
GRACE: So these allegations that too much time elapsed between the death and the autopsy for bruises to show up is completely bunk. An autopsy will find hemorrhages, bruises in lay terms.
PETERSON: That`s correct.
GRACE: Regards of the discoloration of the body.
PETERSON: That`s correct.
GRACE: That`s absolutely not true.
PETERSON: You`re absolutely right. It can show bruises on the body despite the color of the skin through examination under the microscope.
GRACE: And Doctor, in your experience, do individuals die from a seizure?
PETERSON: It`s very possible that a person can die from a seizure. Typically it can occur when the seizure is very prolonged. If a seizure is longer than 30 minutes and there`s a high risk of death, it`s a life- threatening situation, that`s called status epilepticus.
Seizures in of themselves.
GRACE: Are you saying it was epilepsy or is that just the medical term for the type of seizure?
PETERSON: Epilepsy means that you have had recurrent seizures over time. So it is a syndrome of recurrent seizures and I presume that Jett was suffering from epilepsy because he was on medication. Typically.
GRACE: For seizures?
PETERSON: That`s correct. Depakote is typically used for seizure disorder or epilepsy and it typically medication is only given if you have recurrent seizures.
GRACE: Back out to Ken Baker with E.
Ken, you seem to want very much to find out the nature and cause of death. But again, I ask you, if there is no criminal wrongdoing alleged, what business is it of E!`s or anybody`s. I`m not picking on you. You just happen to be there asking this question.
If there`s not an investigation, why do we have to know the intimate details of this death?
BAKER: Well, I -- think there`s two parts of this. One is that, if you`re a tourist who`s going to the Bahamas or if you`re a citizen of the Bahamas, I`m sure that you want to have confidence in the legal system, the judicial system, the law enforcement system, that if something bad happens to you while you`re there, that there are systems in place that are proper and that fit with our American system of investigating and making sure that.
GRACE: Hey, if you want the American system, don`t leave the country. Hello?
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: And to you, Tom O`Neil, who performed the autopsy?
O`NEIL: Who performed the autopsy? I don`t have the doctor`s name right here in front of me but it was done in the Bahamas. Is that what you mean?
GRACE: Was it the family doctor?
O`NEIL: No, the family physician observed the autopsy.
GRACE: So the autopsy was performed by the correct Bohemian official, correct?
O`NEIL: Correct.
GRACE: And the family doctor observed?
O`NEIL: Correct.
GRACE: So back to Ken Baker.
Ken, do you sense any wrongdoing?
BAKER: No, I don`t. Let`s.
GRACE: Or you just like throwing it out there and seeing it in sticks?
BAKER: No, no, no. Don`t get me wrong, I think that -- well, first and foremost, nothing that we can conclude from how the police handled this, why the police report initially said that there was a fall and that may have contributed to it. But then we get the autopsy and that says there`s no head trauma evidence whatsoever.
All that is not going to bring back this young boy. And that`s the real tragedy here.
Now, the question that people are asking today of -- loved ones who have medical conditions such as epilepsy and seizures are this -- the Travoltas had taken him off medication and he wasn`t getting medication at the time.
So I think it`s a -- it`s a really important question that we ask ourselves as parents.
GRACE: OK.
BAKER: . as caregivers.
GRACE: Got it.
BAKER: Should our.
GRACE: Got it. Got it.
BAKER: Should people who have seizures be on medication or not?
GRACE: To the lines, Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba. a UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, hi, Nancy. I just want to say I have seizures and have had for two years now and the first seizure I had, I quit breathing totally, turned blue and everything. And if it hadn`t been for my daughter I would have died.
Maybe this is what has happened to that young child.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then they ask for some moments, he and his wife, to spend with Jett. And they stayed in the morgue for several hours.
During that time, we saw the family demonstrating through their grieving of the tremendous love and the hurt and the pain and as was later said, John described it as the worst day of his life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to Tom O`Neil with "In Touch Weekly." Tom, was there any discrepancy between what the police report said and what the funeral home said was the condition of the body?
O`NEIL: Yes. As Ken was mentioning earlier, there`s this question about was there ever -- was there any trauma to the head? The initial report from the paramedics was that he fell in the bathroom, bumped his head on the tub, that there was a protrusion there and blood on the floor. Now the autopsy contradicts that.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Steve in Wisconsin, hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, how you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did my nephew had seizures for a long time and he quit taking his drug called Nervotin and shortly after he passed away. I`m curious if -- sorry?
GRACE: Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m -- curious to see if he died from not taking his medication. He`s retarded but I don`t know if that had something to do with it.
GRACE: I don`t know what the boy`s condition was or his ailment.
Ken Baker, do we know whether he was off his medication for sure?
BAKER: Yes, a family spokesperson actually said that Jett Travolta had been taking anti-seizure medication, but was taken off it because the side effects were great and harmful and that it was not being effective. And I`m told that`s a very common thing.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Jeffrey Stevenson, 20, Newton, New Jersey, killed in Iraq, loving, respectful, always smiling, joined Marines six months after high school. Wanted to move to California with his brother and join the LAPD.
Leaves behind parents Karen and Joe, brother and best friend, Senior Airman Robert Stevenson, sister-in-law, Brianne, niece Taylor, grandparents, Robert and Shirley. Many aunts, uncles, cousins.
Jeffrey Stevenson, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. See you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
