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American Morning
Biden, Graham Meet with Pakistani Officials; Obama Urges Congress to Act Now on the Economy; Palin Fires Back; U.N. Votes for Cease-Fire as Israel Says it Plans to Continue Gaza Attacks; How Obama Will Be Kept Safe on Train Ride to Washington; New Year's Air Strike Kills Al Qaeda Terrorists; Obama Graces Cover of Marvel Comics; Obama to Face International Pressure on U.S. Interrogation Policies
Aired January 09, 2009 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROBERTS: One minute to the top of the hour. And here are this morning's top stories. Vice President-elect Senator Joe Biden is in Islamabad, Pakistan today with Republican Senator Lindsey Graham. Biden is there not as the incoming vice president, but as the outgoing chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Biden and Graham are discussing a variety of regional issues with Pakistani officials.
Israel says its offensive into Gaza will not stop, that, despite the U.N. Security Council calling for a cease-fire, expressing grave concern at the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. The vote was unanimous. Fourteen members voted in favor. The United States abstained. Israel's army struck at least 50 targets in Gaza overnight. The death toll there has reportedly now reached 778.
Tens of thousands are still being kept out of their homes because of floods, mudslides and avalanches in the Pacific Northwest. The floods some of the worst in Washington State history have left miles of roads and railways closed down. They were caused by a combination of heavy rain and melting snow.
Later on this morning, Barack Obama will announce Leon Panetta as the new chief of the CIA. Panetta served as chief of staff to President Clinton. Obama will also name Dennis Blair as the director of national intelligence and John Brennan as an adviser on homeland security and counterterrorism.
Just 11 days now until Barack Obama takes the oath of office, but he is telling Congress to act now for your family's sake and for our economy's sake. The president-elect is warning that the United States could sink deeper into this economic crisis without a stimulus package. The cost of that package could come close to $1 trillion, maybe even go past it.
Jessica Yellin joins us live from Washington this morning. And, Jessica, not everyone appears to be thrilled with this stimulus package.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, and the president-elect is aware of that. So he is urging Congress to act fast and pass this plan immediately, trying to overcome resistance to the fat price tag by insisting that doing nothing would make this crisis far worse. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN (voice-over): A bleak picture from President-elect Barack Obama.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: If nothing is done, this recession could linger for years. The unemployment rate could reach double digits. Our economy could fall $1 trillion short of its full capacity.
YELLIN: When it comes to the economy, he is not afraid to shock Washington into action. Warning it's cash or crash, he's urging Congress to spend almost $800 billion to stimulate growth.
OBAMA: There is no doubt that the cost of this plan will be considerable. It will certainly add to the budget deficit in the short term. But equally certain are the consequences of doing too little or nothing at all.
YELLIN: Included in the plan, tax cuts to the tune of $300 billion with money going to the unemployed, small businesses and some middle class families. Infrastructure spending, rebuilding roads and bridges, expanding Internet service and making buildings energy- efficient. He's urging Congress to act fast.
OBAMA: For every day we wait or point fingers or drag our feet, more Americans will lose their jobs. More families will lose their savings. More dreams will be deferred and denied. And our nation will sink deeper into a crisis that, at some point, we may not be able to reverse.
YELLIN: But so far, mixed reactions from his partners on Capitol Hill, where negotiations continue over how much to spend and to whom the money would go.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: And this morning, John, two transition officials confirm to me that Obama's economic team is also working on that massive Wall Street bailout plan. Remember, there's still some money that hasn't gone out from that plan but they're trying to overhaul it, looking to redirect some of the money so it relieves the nation's credit crunch and helps homeowners facing foreclosure. A lot going on with Obama's economic team.
ROBERTS: Absolutely. There is some money, we should point out, too, is $350 billion, so that's some big chunk of money.
YELLIN: All zeros.
ROBERTS: So the skepticism that he's facing on the Democratic side by people who don't think that the public spending part of it is big enough and Republicans who think it's too vague, how does he plan to get all those people on board?
YELLIN: Well, they're meeting day in and day out, both Obama but also his economic team trying to negotiate the details. Look, the bottom line is members of Congress on both sides of the aisle agree that something needs to be done. They do need to pass a massive stimulus plan. The disagreement is in the details, and they're hammering those out in the next two weeks.
ROBERTS: All right. Jessica Yellin for us from Washington this morning. Jessica, thanks so much.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: We have a dramatic iReport video to show you right now. Cars exploding in the night in the wake of riots in Oakland, California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, (EXPLETIVE DELETED) the car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: These were protests that erupted on the streets the night after a young man killed by a subway police officer was laid to rest. Some of the protesters saw the video of him apparently lying face down on the platform as the gun went off. Some shared their anger with people who sent in i-Reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't need to pull that gun while on handcuffs. That's not an accident. That's you doing what you wanted to do. Actually, you're abusing your authority. That's violence on violence. You can't do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not right. (INAUDIBLE) my generation, they killed that young black brother. He had a daughter on the way. He had a daughter on the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a modern-day lynch. Modern-day lynching right there, brother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Well, police say that they made more than 100 arrests in the rioting. The victim's mother said she's begging for people not to use violence. The family has also filed a $25 million wrongful death claim against the transit agency. The officer involved in the shooting has resigned and it is, of course, being investigated.
Also happening right now, a state of emergency in the Pacific Northwest. Homes, high ways, entire towns sitting in three feet of water after a foot of rain overflowed rivers in Washington State. In western Washington, 40,000 people were told to leave their homes and a 20-mile stretch of Interstate 5 between Seattle and Oregon is now closed as well.
Our Rob Marciano has been following extreme weather for us across the country. So they're going to be getting hopefully a bit of a break today, Rob. ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. Check out the radar, it's empty. That's good news.
There is another storm coming in for the weekend, but they'll have time for the rivers to basically unload the water. Rivers for the most part crested yesterday but still in record flood stage.
You mentioned I-5 closed for a 20-mile stretch. Ten thousand trucks use that corridor from Portland through Seattle on a daily basis so you can imagine the toll it's taking on commerce, not to mention the folks that had to leave their homes. There is word as of late yesterday that folks in Orvis (ph) may be able to get back into their homes, but it's going to be awhile before folks really start to see any sort of dry land. So that's the ongoing issue there.
Rivers in this part of the world do take some time to get below flood stage, and we have flood warnings out for a good chunk of that area.
But high pressure in control now, looks to be a little bit drier. Across the rest of the country, frigid air moving across the western Great Lakes, dry and decent across much of the southeast, and the northeast, today, seasonable temperatures, with highs around 34 degrees New York, 30 degrees in Chicago.
There will be some snow moving into the Northeast tomorrow. We'll talk more about that in the next hour. Kiran, back up to you.
CHETRY: Yes. We're supposed to get about six inches up in my neck of the woods so flooding for all.
MARCIANO: You seem excited.
CHETRY: Thank you, Rob.
MARCIANO: All right.
ROBERTS: Well, also new this morning, former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is giving more interviews. She is coming out swinging against the media and the McCain campaign as well. She's speaking out in a new documentary blaming a double standard for crushing her vice presidential dreams.
Jason Carroll is working the story. He joins us now with more on this. She's pretty hot under the collar about all of that.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. These are some of her most critical comments yet about the media saying sexism and maybe classism played a role in how she was treated. She talked about her experience for an upcoming documentary by conservative filmmaker John Zeigler.
Palin discussed a number of topics, including the much-criticized interviews she did with CBS News anchor Katie Couric. Palin had trouble recalling major Supreme Court cases she disagreed with, other than Roe v. Wade, and could not name a newspaper she regularly reads. Palin admitted the interview bombed, but blames the McCain campaign for not doing a better job at damage control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), ALASKA: I knew it didn't go well the first day, and then we gave her a couple of other segments after that. And my question to the campaign was, after it didn't go well the first day, why are we going to go back for more? And because of however it works in, you know that, upper echelon of power-brokering in the media, and with spokespersons and -- it was, told me that yes, we were going to go back for more, and going back for more was not a wise decision either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: Palin also slammed the media, saying it favored Barack Obama's campaign, and says she was not treated fairly because she's a Republican.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: Had I been chosen perhaps to run as a reformer on the Democrat ticket, you would have seen an absolutely different and I think, if you will, a much prettier profile of Sarah Palin and the Palin family and my administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: And the criticism did not stop there. Palin turned her attention to Caroline Kennedy's bid to fill Hillary Clinton's New York Senate seat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: I've been interested also to see how Caroline Kennedy will be handled, and if she'll be handled with kid gloves or if she will be under such a microscope also. It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out and I think that as we watch that, we will perhaps be able to prove that there is a class issue here also, that was such a factor in the scrutiny of my candidacy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: And finally, how did Governor Palin react to being the butt of so many jokes, especially all those Tina Fey spoofs on "Saturday Night Live"?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: I know that a lot of people are capitalizing on, I don't know, I think some perhaps exploiting that was done via me, my family, my administration. That's a little bit perplexing. It also says a great deal though about our society.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: Despite it all, Palin says she would do it all again and does not rule out another run for national office.
ROBERTS: In another three years, she could get a whole lot of experience under her belt and know how to weather those stormy waters. But in terms of, you know, why did we go back again, if she had done the one interview with Katie Couric that didn't do well and then said, OK, that's it, we're canceling the rest of them, that would have played really badly, too. So --
CARROLL: She learned a lot.
ROBERTS: Caught between a rock and a hard place, I guess. I'm sure we'll see her again.
CARROLL: Oh, yes.
ROBERTS: Jason, thanks.
CHETRY: Well, ahead of his inauguration day, Barack Obama will ride the rail from the city of Brotherly Love all the way to the nation's capital, over bridges and past several chemical plants. So how will authorities keep him safe?
Ten minutes after the hour.
Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man and Barack Obama?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY SABATO, DIR., UNIV. OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: When you're being compared to superheroes, obviously the public's expectations of you will soar. Even Spider-Man couldn't solve the economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: How the future commander in chief wound up in the middle of a comic book caper.
You're watching the Most News in the Morning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Well, a lot of people might not want to work today, this being a Friday. But those of you who do want to work, Ali Velshi is here "Minding Your Business" but the best place is in worst places across the country define work. Good morning to you.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. In just over an hour, we're going to get the unemployment report for the month of December. It's going to be bad, so we wanted to take a look across the country.
We have a 6.7 percent unemployment rate and I think at about an hour and a little bit, I'm going to be telling you that is then going to be seven percent or more. That's the speculation. But across the country, we took a map of the country and we divided it up. We looked at those states that have an unemployment rate that is substantially lower or higher than the national rate.
And if you look at the red states, those are the states where the unemployment rate is more than half a percentage point higher than the national average. So things are worse off in those states. You can see California, Michigan, down in the southeast, those regions.
The green states are those states where the unemployment rate is lower by half a percentage point or more than the national average. And you can see all those mountain states. That's the way it has looked for a little while. North Carolina, Virginia and Texas are involved in that. The states that are sort of that orangey color are those that are right within the range of the national unemployment level.
ROBERTS: That's worth it. Alabama is doing well and it's right in between Georgia and Mississippi, which are doing poorly. Is that right?
VELSHI: That is interesting. That is a good point because I don't know what the answer to that is. We'll have to check why Alabama is doing better, but that's what your map shows.
ROBERTS: Yes, it does. Interesting.
VELSHI: Yes. Now, what am I going to do with that?
ROBERTS: I don't know. I thought you had the answers to everything.
VELSHI: Thought he would have changed.
ROBERTS: No way.
VELSHI: But it's good to be back. The only thing you've changed you don't wear a tie all the time.
CHETRY: It's Friday.
ROBERTS: Yes.
CHETRY: It's tie-free day.
VELSHI: Do I look like an expert on Alabama?
ROBERTS: Tie-free Friday.
CHETRY: Yes.
VELSHI: Anybody watching in Alabama, please write to me and tell me how things are going for you so I can tell Google John here.
ROBERTS: And make sure that you tune in this weekend to a CNN special event, "I.O.U.S.A. America's Money in Crisis." Ali and Christine Romans take a look at America's record deficit and the potential for disaster ahead. Catch it this Saturday, 2:00 p.m. and Sunday at 3:00 p.m. Eastern. CHETRY: They won't stop you. What do you want for breakfast?
VELSHI: Egg on a bagel with cheese.
CHETRY: All right. There you go.
Well, forget the earmarks. One freshman congressman is so money conscious he won't even get a room. Sleeping on a cot in his office. He's showering at the gym all of it to lead by example. So, how is he doing it and how much is he saving?
ROBERTS: The Obama train, riding the rails to Washington, but the president-elect's inaugural trip has special risks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN O'CONNOR, CHIEF, AMTRAK POLICE: Security will be provided in the air, on the ground, and in the water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Train with Obama on board. How will they keep him safe?
You're watching the "Most News in the Morning."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Nineteen minutes after the hour. Just in to CNN, more live pictures.
This is Gaza city as the Israeli military offensive continues again today. That despite a unanimously-adopted United Nations resolution at the security council yesterday to call for an immediate and durable cease-fire. Now the vote was 14-0. There are 15 members of the U.N. Security Council.
That's because the United States abstained from voting, even though Condoleezza Rice had supported the idea of an urgent cease-fire particularly one that had some sort of provision in it to deal with those tunnels that cross back and forth between Rafah at the bottom of Gaza and Egypt. The United States sustained from voting because it wanted to give Egypt more of a chance to mediate between the Palestinians and the Israelis.
Ehud Olmert's office releasing a statement today saying that it is going to continue to act in protection of the Israeli people. More rockets fired out of Gaza today toward Israel. Olmert's office saying that's proof that they cannot let up in this offensive.
So, Kiran, as far as we know, despite the U.N.'s call for a cease-fire this thing is going to go on as long as we can see.
CHETRY: Yes. All right. We'll continue to monitor that this morning. And meantime, it's just 11 days until Barack Obama is sworn in as our 44th president and hours before he takes the oath of office, Obama will be traveling by train from the home of the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia, all the way to Washington. It's a journey that is littered with potential security risks.
Homeland Security correspondent Jeanne Meserve is looking at the daunting task of keeping Obama safe while riding the rails -- Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Kiran, as you mentioned, the president-elect will be traveling these tracks from Philadelphia to Washington for the inauguration a week from tomorrow, and securing the route is going to be a daunting challenge.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): The president-elect will journey from the cradle of our democracy to the seat of our government, a trip full of symbolism, history and risk.
Mr. Obama will travel 137 miles on a fixed route with vulnerabilities. Hundreds of bridges that could be sabotaged, tall buildings that could hide snipers, and plants that manufacture and use dangerous chemicals that, in a terrorist attack, could be released.
RICK HIND, GREENPEACE: When you look at a map of the chemical plants in that route, there's over ten plants along that route that we can count that put 100,000 people or more at risk. Half of them put a million or more people at risk.
MESERVE: On Saturday, January 17th, one of those people will be President-elect Obama. The Secret Service won't be specific, but says it is addressing the chemical issue. Sensors detecting not just chemicals but biological, nuclear and radiological threats will be used along with other technology, which officials say they began positioning two weeks ago.
WILLIAM PICKLE, FORMER U.S. SECRET SERVICE AGENT: It would tell you if there's a problem with those tracks, if there's been a sabotage of the tracks, if there's explosives nearby.
MESERVE: The Secret Service won't comment on security enhancements to Obama's train. Amtrak, state and local police will help create a safely envelope around it as it moves south.
JOHN O'CONNOR, CHIEF, AMTRAK POLICE: Security will be provided in the air, on the ground, and in the water.
MESERVE: There is a long history of presidents taking train trips, so people can see them and hear them.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you.
MESERVE: The Secret Service is confident it can keep this president-elect safe. MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Remember, the Secret Service is taking the president into Iraq, into Afghanistan and just some very hostile places around the world. I'm comfortable that they have the skills working, of course, with state and local authorities, to protect the president-elect in Pennsylvania and Baltimore and Washington, D.C.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Obama will be making stops along the way to give speeches. Those venues will be secured as usual, but they're also expecting throngs of people at the stations along the tracks. The Secret Service won't say how they're planning to handle that.
Kiran, back to you.
CHETRY: And, of course, a bit of history to throw into as well. Abraham Lincoln traveling to his inauguration by train, right?
MESERVE: He did, and there was an assassination threat against him which was considered serious enough that his security people had him change trains, and when they did they also asked him to take off that stovepipe hat and put on a Scottish tam and put a long cloak to disguise himself and he was ridiculed pretty strongly for that in some political cartoons -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Can't win them all. All right. Jeanne Meserve, thanks so much.
ROBERTS: He is already an author, a former senator and now the president-elect. But a comic book star is his next claim to fame, sharing the page with Spider-Man?
Plus, the president-elect comes from a family that includes half siblings and stepparents. So how could his non-traditional family background shape the way he leads? We'll find out.
It's 23 and a half minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Pretty cool special effects. Actually some of them can quite give you a headache actually.
Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. The world's most famous web slinger, Spider-Man, has fans of all ages, of course, including one very famous politician, Barack Obama. And that's why Obama is being penciled into the superhero's comic.
Alina Cho has the story and the comic.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I do.
CHETRY: It's more than a comic.
CHO: Everybody wants it. CHETRY: (INAUDIBLE) right in this little plastic.
CHO: Well, that's what they say. I know.
CHETRY: A collector too late.
CHO: We had to use it for the piece. Kiran, good morning. Good morning, everybody.
You know, Barack Obama has been the cover of "Time," "Newsweek," "Rolling Stone" and "Us Weekly" but on the cover of a comic book?
It's true. Obama is being featured in an upcoming issue of "The Amazing Spider-Man," the first time Marvel Comics has ever featured a president-elect on the cover. So is it a marketing gimmick? The editor says no, just a tip of the hat to a big fan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NARRATOR, "SPIDER MAN" MOVIE: With great power comes great responsibility.
CHO (voice-over): In the movies, Spider-Man is quite the tough guy but move over, there's a new superhero in the house, Obama.
(on camera): Geeks everywhere unite.
JOE QUESADA, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "MARVEL COMICS": It's unbelievable. We are legion, legion.
CHO (voice-over): January 14th, "Marvel Comics" is releasing a special issue of the "Amazing Spider-Man" featuring the web slinger and a character with a likeness to Barack Obama. Why? The president- elect is a Spidey fan.
QUESADA: Wow! This has got to be the coolest moment. The future commander in chief of our country is actually the future nerd in chief. You know, we have a geek in the White House.
CHO: It's not the first time a president has been featured in a comic book, but it is the first time Marvel has put a president-elect on the cover. Inside, Spider-Man's alter ego, Peter Parker, a newspaper photographer, is on a big assignment. Mr. Obama's inauguration.
No spoilers here. We're not giving away any of the plot. We can tell you Spidey and the president-elect join in a fist bump.
QUESADA: I think it's very applicable to a president especially during these times of crisis.
CHO: But should the president also be a pop culture icon? Mr. Obama has been featured on the covers of "Us Weekly," "People," and now a comic book. Does that diminish the image of the commander in chief? LARRY SABATO, DIR., UNIV. OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: When you're being compared to superheroes, obviously the public's expectations of you will soar. Even Spider-Man couldn't solve the economy.
CHO: But can the incoming president?
(on camera): Is there anything that the president-elect can learn from Spider-Man?
QUESADA: No matter how great his powers are, no matter how many buildings you can climb or ultimately those things don't necessarily cure your day-to-day problems. You always have to remember where you come from, and who you are.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHO: And with great power comes great responsibility. That's the mantra, right?
Now this special issue of the "Amazing Spider-Man" featuring Barack Obama is expected to sell out quickly. Some say it will be an instant collectors item. It cost $3.99, but some say it will be on eBay the day it goes on sale, Kiran, for $50. So you can imagine what that says about the future value of this comic book.
But, you know, one thing that's interesting is the political analysts we talked to said you know it's the honeymoon period for the president-elect when he's featured on the cover of a comic book.
CHETRY: Right.
CHO: He said Barack Obama should enjoy it because it's not going to last. I also asked the editor of Marvel. You know, listen, would you have put John McCain on the cover if he would have won and they said yes. Listen, it's really about being a mutual adoration society. Barack Obama said I'm a fan so we said OK, tip of the hat, we're going to put you on the cover.
CHETRY: That's funny. They take a few jabs at Vice President- elect Biden as well.
CHO: They do.
CHETRY: So it's pretty funny.
CHO: It is. We're not going to give it away but yes, lots of good stuff in there.
CHETRY: Hang on to that stuff.
CHO: I will.
CHETRY: Thanks -- John.
ROBERTS: Coming up now to 30 minutes after the hour. Breaking news this morning.
Israel says its military offensive in Gaza will continue despite a new call to end the violence in the Middle East. The United Nations Security Council approved a resolution yesterday calling for an immediate cease-fire. The U.S. abstained even though it helped draft the resolution but this morning, Israel says it is taking mortar fire from Gaza and returning fire of its own hitting dozens of suspected Hamas targets overnight.
He's awaiting trial at his multimillion-dollar apartment but in just hours a judge could send accused rip-off artist Bernard Madoff to jail. Prosecutors say Madoff was trying to conceal as much as $300 million in assets from the government, violating a court order. Madoff is accused of scamming investors out of $50 billion.
Team Obama saying please standby on the switch to digital TV. The president-elect's staff has asked key members of Congress to delay the switch to a digital television signal scheduled for February 17th. That's because there's not enough government money left to help people upgrade and not enough resources to handle problems that may pop up.
If you know somebody who still has rabbit ears on the top of the tube or antenna on the roof they currently have about a month to get a converter box or their television set will stop picking up those signals.
President-elect Barack Obama says the nation's unemployment could hit double digits if Congress doesn't act and act quickly to reverse the recession by passing his economic stimulus plan. Obama says his new plan could save or create three million jobs. But the price tag for recovery by some estimates could reach over $1 trillion.
Joining me now from Washington with her response to Obama's plan is Tennessee Republican Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn. Congresswoman, good to see you today.
REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R), TENNESSEE: Good to see you.
ROBERTS: In an interview that I read you said that there are plenty of questions to go around on all of this. What questions do you have?
BLACKBURN: There are plenty of questions, and they are specifically, where do you think the money is going to come from? If a Plan A didn't work, which was the Paulson plan, and that came out of the trillion-dollar, then Plan B is going to be more expensive then that doesn't leave much room for a Plan C.
And I think we have a philosophical difference there. There are those that think from the left you take the money from the taxpayer, you bring it to Washington, you send it back out. And then there are those of us on the right that say look, he's got part of the equation right, which is tax cuts work, and reducing spending works, and a smaller government works, but you know, you can't add on all this government spending and leave it there for future generations to pay. We know that the best economic stimulus is the job, and we know the way to generate that jobs growth is by creating the environment where businesses can expand. We know that a stimulus needs to be given to the taxpayer, and that Main Street level is where it needs to take place.
ROBERTS: Let me come back to this idea, if you could, of Plan A and Plan B. So we had Plan A, the $700 billion stimulus package, still $350 billion of that to be allocated, it hasn't done a lot to stop the economy from plunging into a recession. This is Plan B, it may top a trillion dollars. Is this one for all the marbles? If this one doesn't work, what might be left to try?
BLACKBURN: You know, and that is the problem, because go back and remember that Plan A, the Paulson plan, before we got to September with the $700 billion bailout he had already spent $323 billion when you go back and look at Bear Stearns and Fannie and Freddie and Indymac and AIG that totaled $323 billion, so the $700 billion was on top of that.
ROBERTS: Mm-hm.
BLACKBURN: So they've spent 350 of that $700 billion and John, you're right. It has not done what they thought it was going to do, and many of us had our reservations about this. There are still lots of pro-growth, tax reduction items that can take place. We are working on that, and there is going to be an alternative presented.
The goal is to make certain that the American taxpayers are not going to be saddled with ever-increasing debt. To hear people talk about trillion-dollar deficits is a frightening thing.
ROBERTS: It is rather scary and of course, the deficit could go well beyond $1 trillion. Are you and your Republican colleagues going to demand hearings on this stimulus package?
BLACKBURN: Absolutely. We are. We think that it is an imperative. You can look at what happened with Plan A if you will, and the fact that many of us raised questions about that, why we didn't go in and do some things like mark-to-market accounting, why we didn't go back in and look at the valuations on these toxic waste, why we didn't do loans and some kind of reinsurance program as opposed to just putting this money out there with those nine investment banks.
So absolutely, the fact that Plan A didn't have a time line, didn't have a plan of what they were going to do, and didn't have the appropriate oversight mechanisms in place, has caused many members on both the House and the Senate in both sides of the aisle to be very skeptical.
ROBERTS: You said toxic waste, there are actually toxic assets but I think toxic waste would be a more appropriate term.
BLACKBURN: A little slip there.
ROBERTS: Congresswoman Blackburn, good talking with you. Thanks for coming in this morning.
BLACKBURN: Good to be with you.
ROBERTS: All right. Take care.
CHETRY: Well, a major new development in the war on Al Qaeda in Pakistan. We're learning now of a U.S. air strike over New Year's that killed two Al Qaeda terrorists on the FBI's most wanted list.
Our Paula Newton has the latest for us live from London. And Paula, this is interesting because we've been hearing about a couple more of these other attacks as well. Did the U.S. government have approval from the Pakistanis tacit or otherwise to carry out these strikes?
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely not. And certainly with the interior minister telling me from Pakistan and two Pakistani ambassadors they have said repeatedly look, we'll do this work for you, give us the intelligence. But the U.S. really rioting right now, Kiran, on a plan the Bush administration put into place several months ago.
It's highly covert. I mean, the missiles and strikes these two down were unpiloted. There were missile strikes from the air but sources do say that in fact for the last several months that perhaps the CIA, the American military putting boots on the ground in Pakistan were necessary. The point here is that the bush administration, Kiran, wanted to actively chase after those Al Qaeda operatives. The two Kenyans still most recently described as Al Qaeda up-and-comers.
But what they wanted to do was really try and make a last push for certainly the top ranking, Osama Bin Laden and Ayman Al Zawahiri. And what they wanted to do was make sure that in the dying days of the Bush legacy that they really could put some strength behind what Pakistan has been unable to do in the last several months. Kiran.
CHETRY: You know, it was a big issue on the campaign trail as well and so the big question is, will the Barack Obama administration continue these types of air strikes, despite the fact that at least on the surface it violates Pakistan's sovereignty?
NEWTON: Two things, Kiran. You know, if you look at what certainly President-elect Obama said on the campaign trail, he promised to chase after Bin Laden in the cave where he lives. While according to all intelligence sources that would be Pakistan. Considering he is bringing in, he is retaining Robert Gates as the defense secretary you can expect more of these kinds of strikes over the next few months until they come one a better plan.
In the meantime, Pakistan says that when they start to hit very close to civilian targets, that's when they get the most protests. Pakistan saying again and again, look, again we'll say it to Joe Biden when he is in Pakistan today, you are putting our country at risk. This is a powder keg and if it continues to enter our country with these kinds of missile strikes, it will become more and more difficult for to us keep a handle on the military situation, and on the intelligence situation. Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. Paula Newton for us this morning, thanks so much.
ROBERTS: Well, what makes the house a home? When a congressman tries to set an example of how to save money, just a cot and a few Fig Newtons is all he needs, a cost-cutting measure Washington sure isn't used to. We'll show it to you. 38 minutes after the hour.
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CHETRY: Well when Barack Obama takes the oath of office just 11 days from now he'll be surrounded by his immediate family. But Obama's larger family includes a half sibling as well as stepparents. So could his eclectic family background actually shape the way he leads? Joining us now is clinical psychologist Jeff Gardere. Great to talk to you this morning.
JEFF GARDERE, AUTHOR OF BOOKS ON LOVE AND PARENTING: Great to see you this morning.
CHETRY: He has a unique family background, of course.
GARDERE: Yes.
CHETRY: In terms of presidential families but it's actually pretty reflective of what the American family looks like today, at least some of them, and so...
GARDERE: Absolutely.
CHETRY: ... and so how he grew up sort of shape the way he leads?
GARDERE: Well, certainly the way we grow up is a projection as an adult, as a type of person that we are or that we can become. Those early experiences shape the experiences for him as an adult. So we see that this early background being in a blended family, being in a mixed race family, has made him an incredible individual, and it's perfect for America right now, because this is a reflection of America. By the year 2010, blended families will be the most representative of families.
CHETRY: This is why I think it's interesting. Because even the language has changed. We used to call it a broken home and now we're saying blended family.
GARDERE: That's right.
CHETRY: The traditional school of thought is that children who you know do not have both of their parents raising them when they grew up are at a disadvantage. Is he turning that on its head?
GARDERE: Well I think he is changing a lot of that notion but we do know that especially the one-parent homes, yes, kids are at risk for a lot of issues especially if they are teen pregnancies, or unwanted pregnancies, or it's a very messy divorce, and the kids suffer emotionally from that but I think President-elect Obama is proving that you can come from a blended home or from a one-parent home as he was, for just a little while, and still be very successful. So I think in many ways he becomes a role model for kids from blended homes.
CHETRY: It's interesting, though, when you look at the statistics. We did some research on this, about 70 percent of jailed juveniles come from a fragmented family.
GARDERE: That's right.
CHETRY: They are more likely to live in poverty, to suffer from alcohol abuse, from sexual abuse, from drugs, and some other problems. So how do you make that distinction between, you know, what puts you at risk, based on how you grew up?
GARDERE: Well I think if we look at some of those issues that we had talked about, if it was an unwanted pregnancy or teen pregnancy, or a very messy divorce, yes, that will put you as a child at risk for issues that you may express in your behaviors, later on as an adult.
But what we're finding with these blended families is that, yes, there can be different cultures going on in the home. There can be some traumatic issues going on, but as long as we can come together, and enrich that child's life, work through those issues, in many ways, it puts them at an advantage, because now, they have to grow up even a little bit quicker. They have to deal with traumatic issues, and that old saying, if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger, is really true.
But again, looking at these one-parent homes and those statistics that you gave, they are very accurate, but the important point here is that we have to look at, you can come through one of those situations...
CHETRY: Right.
GARDERE: ... in a much stronger manner, and we'd rather have you come from a two-parent home because it is an enormous task to raise children. They need that balance of the male and the female perspective.
CHETRY: And so this is the interesting part because where he has come from versus where his children are and there's an interesting story about this written by Jim Wooten. He wrote about this in the "Atlanta Constitution."
He said that you know Barack Obama and Michelle Obama are really the perfect nuclear family. They have two Ivy League educated parents supportive of each other and their children. So he says it is either an unrealistic ideal or is it and inspirational example for what an African-American family can be?
GARDERE: Well, I think it's a combination of both. Because for too long in the African-American tradition and in our culture, we didn't have many very famous political families where both mom and dad were there, even with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., he was assassinated, so Coretta Scott King had to raise those children by herself.
So now we have an ideal. A black man who is there with his black wife who are there for their black children. So I think this serves as an inspiration for African-American children, because there are so many divorces in the African-American culture. So many one-parent homes, so this is something, an ideal that black, young black men and black women can live for, can look to. So that's a very, very good thing.
CHETRY: Jeff Gardere, always good to talk to you. Thanks for being with us.
GARDERE: My pleasure, thank you.
CHETRY: John.
ROBERTS: Sarah Palin speaking out, hear her latest take on why she and John McCain lost the election, and who she's blaming for it. 45 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": Dick Cheney administered the oath of office to senators on Capitol Hill yesterday. Interesting thing happened during the swearing in ceremony. Take a look. Now here's Cheney greeting a senator. Watch what happens when Cheney puts his hand on the Bible. Watch this.
(LAUGHTER) (CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Yes.
Well the House really is his home, freshman congressman setting the example for some of his better-known colleagues on the Hill, and making the unique sacrifice in some uniquely tough times. CNN's Jim Acosta's got the story for us this morning from D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, up on Capitol Hill, we found out sleeping on the job is one thing. Sleeping in the office is quite another.
REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: Hi, how are you? Jason Chaffetz, nice to see you.
ACOSTA: When the staffer House Republican Jason Chaffetz says the congressman is in...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Congressman Chaffetz's office -- ACOSTA: ... they really mean it.
CHAFFETZ: And then I - pardon me.
ACOSTA: I better get out of the way.
CHAFFETZ: It's a little tight.
ACOSTA: The Lincoln bedroom, it's not. It's the closet inside Chaffetz's House office on Capitol Hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help you out with the other corner over here.
CHAFFETZ: Yes, that would be great.
ACOSTA: The gentleman from Utah showed us he's bunking down every night.
CHAFFETZ: You work late into the night, I was up until 12:45.
ACOSTA: Doing the people's business.
CHAFFETZ: Working hard, talking to constituents, e-mailing, writing letters.
ACOSTA: The office comes with a half bathroom and what Chaffetz calls his breakfast nook.
CHAFFETZ: Fig Newtons for breakfast. These are usually for lunch, and this is kind of the dinner snack right there.
ACOSTA: By not renting an apartment in D.C., Chaffetz says there's more money to send home.
CHAFFETZ: I will save about $1,500 a month for our family by doing this. You know, I got a wife. I got three kids.
ACOSTA: There's just one problem, things that go bump in the night.
CHAFFETZ: The biggest challenge is what goes on in the hallway at night. Because there's this cleaning machine that comes down and it's got that obnoxious you know beep, beep, beep. I will call you definitely, I will call you back.
ACOSTA: Although he is an unknown freshman in the House, word of his sleeping arrangements is spreading.
REP. JUDY BIGGERT (R), ILLINOIS: I'm really glad that we got a neighbor here to make sure that somebody is here to make sure that the neighborhood is safe at night when we're not here. So, I mean --
ACOSTA: Sort of a neighborhood watch, is that it?
BIGGERT: That's right.
ACOSTA: Chaffetz's next-door neighbor doesn't mind.
It's kind of not a bad image to project, I suppose.
BIGGERT: Fiscal conservative, you're right.
ACOSTA: Congressman Chaffetz says it's about putting the nation's fiscal house in order.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The House will be in order.
CHAFFETZ: We are now $10 trillion dollars in debt, 10 trillion. Those are expenses that have to be paid at some point.
ACOSTA: And if he can tighten his belt in these tough economic times, he say, so can Congress. Only a two-year gig.
CHAFFETZ: Yes, there is no job security here.
ACOSTA: A job he says he is willing to put in the long hours to keep.
ACOSTA (on-camera): In case you're wondering, the congressman showers at the house gym. With amenities like those, it's no surprise Chaffetz says he will be staying for a while -- John and Kiran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS (voice-over): Sarah Palin is lashing out at the media.
Katie Couric and the ugly rumors over her baby boy and why is she so keenly interested in Caroline Kennedy now?
Plus, inaugural dress do's and don't's.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't want to look like vavava-boom at the inauguration.
ROBERTS: Fess rehearsal.
LOLA OGUNNAIKE, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Wow. I want to try this baby on.
ROBERTS: For the real thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, let indulge you.
OGUNNAIKE: Indulge me. Indulge me.
ROBERTS: You're watching the Most News in the Morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: In just 11 days, President-elect Barack Obama will face international pressure to change the Bush administration's controversial interrogation policies, policies like waterboarding. President Bush maintains that such practices do not amount to torture and in 2007 said, they have made Americans safer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When we find somebody who may have information regarding a potential attack on America, you bet, we're going to detain them. And you bet we're going to question them. And, by the way, we have gotten information from these high value detainees that have helped protect you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Columnist Joe Klein is here from "Time" magazine and his views differ, shall we say, sharply from the president's and the appearance of this "Time" magazine. You say, Joe, in the article, you describe his presidency as a national embarrassment. Those are harsh words.
JOE KLEIN, "TIME" MAGAZINE: It has been an international embarrassment. I mean, the day that the Abu Ghraib pictures appeared in the press, I was in Jordan and I was interviewing a moderate Jordanian businessman who said, "you guys are going to lecture us now on human rights? You're going to tell us how to live our lives?" This has done tremendous damage to the United States and the world and, it, most likely, is illegal. We're signatories to the Geneva Accords. These policies were a clear violation of how you treat prisoners.
ROBERTS: Now you point to the 2002 finding where the president said that the Geneva Convention does not apply to - the Geneva Convention standards do not apply to these detainees. The president, the Vice-President Cheney have insisted that the U.S. does not engaged in torture, does not engage in torture, does use enhance interrogation techniques like waterboarding.
KLEIN: That's a euphemism. I mean, waterboarding. We haven't done waterboarding, by the way, since 2003. I mean, if these guys think it's so great, why did they stop doing it when the people found out people they were doing it? This is torture using stress positions. This is torture.
Donald Rumsfeld famously said why can't we have them stand in stress positions longer than four hours? I stand eight to 10 hours a day. Well he does it with his clothes on and with adequate sleep.
ROBERTS: And not as you say on two hours sleep naked holding his hands out like this.
KLEIN: You know, I believe there's going to be pressure from the left on Obama to prosecute these people and --
ROBERTS: Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld?
KLEIN: Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld for war crimes. I mean, they have legal exposure for war crimes. I think that's not going to happen. The Obama people have told me that they just want to look forward. ROBERTS: And you say in this article if he were to be clever, he would what?
KLEIN: He would pardon them for war crimes so they would have to live with the stigma for the rest of their lives. But that is just a fancy on my part. It is important, though, that President Obama makes a clear statement, very early on saying that these kind of practices, torture was reprehensible, it is not the American way, we will no longer be the American way.
ROBERTS: He says that he wants to close Guantanamo. At this point there is no mechanism to deal with the detainees who are in Guantanamo. So how soon could he close it down? What would he need to do to close it down?
KLEIN: Well, he's going to need some help from our allies to take some of their nationals back to their countries. It's going to be a very complicated problem. But I think that there is a consensus in favor of closing Guantanamo. Secretary of Defense Gates has said that it should happen. John McCain said it should happen. It's going to happen.
ROBERTS: All right. Joe Klein, always great to see you. You focusing a lot on Afghanistan?
KLEIN: You bet.
ROBERTS: I want to see how Richard Holbrook and David Petraeus?
KLEIN: It's going to be a tough, tough war.
ROBERTS: Yes. All right. Joe, it's good to see you. Thanks for coming in. Kiran.
KLEIN: Good to be back.
CHETRY: Well, we're coming up on a minute before the top of the hour.
