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Campbell Brown
Treasury Secretary Nominee Under Fire; Clinton Faces Confirmation Hearings
Aired January 13, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, everybody.
Breaking news tonight, that's where we begin. The man that Barack Obama chose to lead his economic dream team is suddenly under a cloud.
Bullet point number one: Treasury secretary nominee Tim Geithner is trying to explain himself at the last minute. He went to Capitol Hill personally late today to tell senators why he failed to pay some of his taxes for three years and to explain how he didn't know his former housekeeper's immigration papers had expired.
The Obama transition team says Geithner made -- quote -- "honest mistakes" and that shouldn't stop him from being confirmed. We will have more.
Bullet point two: Senator Hillary Clinton hoping for fast-track approval from her colleagues. At today's confirmation hearing, she coined a phrase that may come to define for better or worse her position on dealing with crises throughout the globe. She calls it smart power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), SECRETARY OF STATE NOMINEE: Our security, our vitality, and our ability to lead in today's world oblige us to recognize the overwhelming fact of our interdependence. I believe that American leadership has been wanting, but is still wanted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: You will also hear what she says about concerns that her husband's global foundation could influence her foreign policy work.
Bullet point number three: President and Mrs. Bush sit down for an exclusive interview with Larry King. You are going to hear some very surprising comments from the first lady about Barack Obama in our preview of tonight's special conversation.
And bullet point number four tonight: the story everybody has been following, the sky-high mystery that has so many people wondering where is this man who police say intentionally crashed his airplane. He runs an investment company. But he is now a fugitive accused of fraud -- new details tonight about what police are doing to track him down. First, though, as always, we are "Cutting Through The Bull."
Today, President Bush in one of his final acts in office, awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to three foreign leaders. It was a striking ceremony to watch, with President Bush giving our country's highest civilian honor to some of his most steadfast friends from abroad, including former British Prime Minister Tony Blair and former Australian Prime Minister John Howard.
Now, both Blair and Howard certainly were leaders with a wide range of accomplishments. But it was clear today they were being honored by our president for their loyalty. Both men were President Bush's most unwavering allies in the war on terror, and especially on Iraq.
It's not the first time the president has used the Presidential Medal of Freedom to reward loyalty. It's his prerogative. As president, he can give the medal to anybody he chooses. But it was, again, a striking image today to watch.
We don't know how history will ultimately judge these three. But their people already have judged them. Blair, in part because of his loyalty to Mr. Bush and his support for the war, resigned from office, his approval ratings in the tank, Howard, too, soundly defeated, partly for being what Mr. Bush today called a sturdy friend in time of need.
And this president giving these honors today leaves us with an approval rating of 27 percent, the vast majority of the country counting the minutes now until the president-elect takes office.
If you have any thoughts, we would love it if you would share them. Go to CNN.com/Campbell, and click on the link to send us your questions and your comments.
Moving on now to tonight's breaking news: trouble for one of president-elect Obama's most crucial Cabinet picks, treasury secretary nominee Tim Geithner. Late this afternoon, we learned he has had tax problems and he also hired an immigrant housekeeper whose work permit later expired, making her illegal.
Tonight, Democrats are scrambling to save the nomination. And the question tonight is whether the Republicans will cause trouble here and try to block it.
National political correspondent Jessica Yellin has been working her sources on this.
So, Jessica, help us understand exactly what Timothy Geithner did.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: OK, there are two things going on here, Campbell.
One, there is the housekeeper issue. A woman who was his housekeeper for two years let her green card lapse for three months of her total employment. Now, Geithner paid taxes for her, but we're told he did not realize she was not legal for those three months. OK, so that seems relatively minor.
The issue that is potentially more troublesome is that, between the years 2000 and 2004, Geithner failed to pay almost $35,000 in Social Security and Medicare taxes. Transition aide tell us, look, he wasn't aware that he owed them.
But here is the sticky part. The IRS audited him for two of those years and informed him of the problem. And, after that audit, he paid taxes for those two years. So, the question is, why didn't he pay taxes for the other two years he had the same job? Wouldn't he have known he owed the same taxes all four years he had that job?
The Obama team discovered this issue during the vetting process. And Geithner did pay the balance back in November, just before he was nominated. But it's now raising a lot of questions.
BROWN: Yes, indeed.
And, Jessica, Majority Leader Harry Reid, Senate majority leader, says this in his words is a minor distraction, that Geithner ultimately will be confirmed. Let's listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: Timothy Geithner is a person that is extremely well-qualified to be one of the finest secretaries of treasury this country has ever had. And there's a few little hiccups, but that's basically what they are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: But, Jessica, I know you are hearing some senior Senate Republicans do have very serious concerns here. What are you hearing?
YELLIN: Yes. In particular, Senator Chuck Grassley, who is the senior Republican on this Finance Committee that has to confirm him, says, look, he has serious concerns and he hasn't decided whether this is a disqualifying issue.
His view is, this man could be running the Treasury Department, which includes the IRS. So, shouldn't he understand which taxes he owes? And it's a lot of money, $35,000.
There is also a potential perception issue on the housekeeper matter. It is similar to a problem that derailed female candidates for Cabinet positions back in the Clinton era, like Kimba Wood, when she -- he was coming into office.
Now, wouldn't senators let a man get away with something similar to a problem that disqualified a woman? Couldn't that pose political problems for them?
Democrats right now are trying to set a hearing date for this Friday, Campbell. But Republicans could block that. And we are told that Chuck Grassley and other Republicans haven't decided whether they want that hearing to go forward this week or not.
BROWN: And you will be following it all. We will be following it with you as this plays out over the week.
Jessica Yellin for us tonight -- Jessica, thanks.
Barack Obama's inauguration still a week away, tonight, his very first veto threat already on the table. We are going to tell you about it coming up next.
Also ahead, secretary of state nominee Hillary Clinton promises big changes at the State Department. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I assure you that, if I am confirmed, the State Department will be firing on all cylinders to provide forward- thinking, sustained diplomacy in every part of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: But a big question for Hillary, and that would be Bill. Bill Clinton, could his foundation's foreign donors influence his wife's diplomatic goals? We will tackle that next.
Plus, the latest in the mystery of a pilot who crashed his plane, apparently to fake his own death? Authorities now say there are plenty of other lies in this case. Wait until you hear.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Breaking news tonight, as the leader of Barack Obama's economic team faces questions about his tax returns and a former housekeeper's immigration status.
Treasury secretary nominee Tim Geithner's troubles couldn't come at a worse, time as the president-elect tries to sell his economic plan to skeptical Senate Democrats.
Obama made his final pre-inauguration visit to the Hill today, and threatened to veto any attempt to interfere with the release of the last $350 billion in Wall Street bailout money.
We are going to talk to our political panel about that, about Tim Geithner's troubles, and if they're likely to hurt the president -- or the next president, rather.
With me tonight, CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger, "New York Daily News" Errol Louis, and Andy Serwer, managing editor of "Fortune" magazine.
Welcome, guys.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi.
BROWN: Gloria, let me start with you on this. You have been doing a lot of reporting on this, I know. Jessica Yellin also just telling us the Obama team knew about this, the stuff with Geithner, before they announced his nomination. Should they have made that information public then? Was it a strategic mistake to let this blow up at the last minute?
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: You know, I guess it is good to do some Monday-morning quarterbacking here.
They knew about it. And, within about a week, they told the Senate Finance Committee. It was sort of over the Thanksgiving holidays, around the Thanksgiving holiday. So, the Senate Finance Committee has had all of this information for quite some time, Campbell.
And when you talk to people on team Obama, what they will say is that the housekeeper issue, they call a glitch. And when it comes to his own personal taxes, which I believe is actually a more serious issue, they say there's a lot of ambiguity when you work for the International Monetary Fund as he did, because they don't withhold taxes, as most of us do in our paychecks. And, so, this was a problem he had, but an oversight.
I think that's more serious, because he has got a big job at Treasury to do. And people can raise the question, well, if you can't do your own taxes, hmm.
BROWN: Yes, how are you going to lead us out of this mess?
BORGER: Yes.
BROWN: Andy, the Obama team saying the job of treasury secretary right now especially in the middle of an economic crisis is just too important. These were, in their own words -- quote -- "honest mistakes," and they don't rise to the level of ditching his nomination. What do you think?
ANDY SERWER, MANAGING EDITOR, "FORTUNE": Well it's a question of degree, isn't it? If we discover something really serious, that's more important than the economic crisis, and we obviously want someone who is untainted, doesn't have questions of judgment, and can lead us through this economic storm.
I think the jury is still out a little bit with this particular issue. There are still some more questions that need to be answered. But, again, getting back to the point that Gloria just made, you would rather have a treasury secretary who had a couple speeding tickets, rather than problems with their taxes, right?
BORGER: Right.
BROWN: Well, I mean, Errol, to that point, as Gloria was telling us, Jessica Yellin reporting, he received four different documents, if we have this right, telling him about these taxes he was supposed to pay. And he still missed it. ERROL LOUIS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. You know, I want to hear...
BROWN: I mean, most people are going to get this, right?
LOUIS: I want to hear what he has to say.
SERWER: Right.
LOUIS: And I think that will really determine it, because...
SERWER: Good point.
LOUIS: ... if he does what I think most officials would do -- and I have seen a number of these cases in the past -- they will blame it on their CPA, or some lost paperwork, or there was a fire at the summer home or something like that.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Better not blame it on the fire at the summer home in the middle of this crisis. That ain't going to fly.
LOUIS: The dog ate my tax return.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Go ahead, Gloria.
BORGER: Well, you have Charlie Rangel, who is chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, a Democrat, who has got problems with his taxes, too. And some people are scratching their heads about that.
I think Geithner really has to explain how, after an IRS audit, he paid back two years of back taxes, but he had actually worked there four years, when he didn't pay his Social Security and Medicare taxes. And then the Obama vetters said to him, oh, look, you have got to pay those other two years, too. Maybe he just wasn't paying attention.
BROWN: OK, sloppy, though. Is there an explanation here that we're missing, Andy?
(CROSSTALK)
SERWER: There's a bigger issue, though, Campbell, I think. And that has to do with the fact that this country is in a precarious state right now. There has been a perception that Obama was doing a terrific job managing his campaign, the transition, picked good people, was managing this process very well.
He had a little bit of hiccup, to use Harry Reid's phrase, with Richardson. Now, is this going to be a problem? And it starts to potentially hit competence just at a time when we really don't need it. BROWN: Well, and maybe you can address -- both of you can address this question. There are other potential problems we haven't even gotten to with Geithner, too, which was it was on his watch that Lehman Brothers failed. And a lot of people may raise that in terms of the bigger questions about how we got in this mess in the first place.
LOUIS: Well, right. Tim Geithner was said to be the person who was at the center of some of these early talks when some houses went out of business, other investment houses were saved, when all of the bankers were huddling in Lower Manhattan, trying to figure out what to do.
He was given high marks for that, but those high marks came from investment bankers. They're not the most popular people in the country right now. So, his ability to manage high finance, I guess, we will have to take somebody else's word for that. clearly, his ability to manage his own finances, not so great.
BROWN: And, Andy, just address this, too. hare we going to see a reaction from the markets possibly if this lingers on? I mean, stability is what everybody has been craving, you know, from what you guys tell us.
SERWER: Right. Well, on the one hand, we are in good shape, because the Treasury just got a couple thousand dollars more in tax money from him.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Right. Ba-dum-bump.
BORGER: Thirty thousand.
SERWER: But, on the other hand, no, seriously, folks, again, if this is a problem where, you know, he is derailed suddenly, I think there could be a real reaction on Wall Street over the short term.
BROWN: Gloria?
BORGER: Campbell, I still think overall it is more likely that Tim Geithner is going to get confirmed, that these issues are an embarrassment to him. It's something he has got to apologize for. And I gather he did that to members of the Senate Finance Committee.
We have a huge economic crisis out there. The judgment has to be made about whether Tim Geithner is the person who can help lead the country out of that.
BROWN: All right.
Thanks very much to both Andy and Errol. Appreciate it, guys.
SERWER: Thanks. BROWN: Gloria, I know you're going to stick around and talk with us a little bit later.
BORGER: Sure.
Tonight, there couldn't be a clearer picture of what the new secretary of state will be up against. Take a look at this, Barack Obama's picture already being burned in the streets of Tehran. When we come back, Hillary Clinton faces the challenge of changing America's image abroad.
And then, later, a gunman in a taxi shooting at police, and the whole thing caught on tape. The incredible story, we have got that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A warm Capitol Hill welcome today for Senator Hillary Clinton at her confirmation hearing to become secretary of state. Her daughter, Chelsea, sat right behind her as she answered questions from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee -- no sign, however, of former President Bill Clinton. Her office says he was watching on TV with his mother-in-law.
During a full day of testimony, Hillary Clinton explained how she hopes to redefine the office of secretary of state. And she continued to insist her husband's foundation will not improperly influence her decision-making.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLINTON: The president-elect and I believe that foreign policy must be based on a marriage of principles and pragmatism, not rigid ideology, on facts and evidence, not emotion or prejudice. We must use what has been called smart power, the full range of tools at our disposal -- diplomatic, economic, military, political, legal, and cultural -- picking the right tool or combination of tools for each situation.
BROWN (voice-over): As confirmation hearings go, Clinton didn't have much to worry about. Only occasionally were there tough questions.
First, the senior Republican on the panel, who has already expressed support for Clinton, demanded that her husband's foundation refuse money from other governments while she is in office.
SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R), INDIANA: The Clinton Foundation exists as a temptation for any foreign entity or government that believes it could curry favor through a donation. It also sets up potential perception problems with any action taken by the secretary of state in relation to foreign givers or their countries.
BROWN: Senator Lugar also wanted more scrutiny of money for foreign businesses. Mr. Clinton had already said no to both before the hearing, agreeing in writing to one request from Lugar that the foundation make clear where the money is coming from.
Another Republican, David Vitter of Louisiana, wanted a better idea of the exact work done at the foundation. He is worried about both real and perceived issues that could arise from Middle Eastern donations.
SEN. DAVID VITTER (R), LOUISIANA: And I think it really requires an extraordinary response.
CLINTON: The foundation and the president-elect decided to go beyond what the law and the ethics rules call for to address even the appearance of conflict.
BROWN: Clinton vowed to try and answer all questions.
CLINTON: And the president-elect and the foundation and I have all worked to be very transparent. My team has stayed in close touch with the committee.
BROWN: When it came to the world's hot spots, she echoed Obama's support for Israel...
CLINTON: You cannot negotiate with Hamas until it renounces violence.
BROWN: ... and called diplomacy just one of the choices for dealing with a nuclear threat from Iran.
CLINTON: No option is off the table.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So, if these hearings are any test of Hillary Clinton's diplomatic skills, she is off to a good start. But the greatest challenges of course are yet to come.
So, tonight, we want to turn to Jamie Rubin, foreign policy adviser to Senator Clinton during the presidential campaign. Tony Blankley also with us, author of ""American Grit: What It Will Take to Survive and Win in the 21st Century." And with us once again, senior political analyst Gloria Borger.
And, Gloria, let me start with you here.
These Republican senators, you could argue, went pretty easy on her, leaving a lot of the old stuff, the old skeletons in the closet.
BORGER: Sure.
BROWN: Today was, in many ways, a real illustration of her political evolution, wasn't it?
BORGER: Campbell, it's funny what 18.5 million votes can do for you when you return to the Senate.
But, oddly enough, she came back to the Senate. Originally, she was just another member. Now, being confirmed as secretary of state, you look at that panel, there are all these folks up there, men, who wanted to be president themselves.
John Kerry, the chairman of the committee, wanted her job as secretary of state. They couldn't have been more gracious. They asked the questions you would expect about the Clinton Foundation. And she was ready with a lot of answers. But, all in all, I think it was really smooth sledding for her today.
BROWN: Jamie, talk us through some of the challenges she faces here.
They're huge. We have already seen these images of Barack Obama being burned in Tehran, in reaction to the U.S. response to how we're dealing with Gaza. Today, Clinton outlined a foreign policy approach they're calling smart power.
How does that doctrine translate into action?
JAMIE RUBIN, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Well I think what Senator Clinton gave -- Secretary of State Clinton, we hope -- gave as an example is, let's take Afghanistan, where clearly there is going to be a decision to provide more troops.
But in order for the Taliban to be defeated, for the elected government to succeed around the country, you are going to need to do a lot more than that. You are going to need to do things on education, things on diplomacy, things on politics. All of the elements of American power need to be brought to bear. So, that is one example.
I think another example, you mentioned Iran. This current administration, the Bush administration, basically has refused to talk to Iran.
Well, one tool in our diplomatic toolbox is talking to another country, trying to figure out whether there is a resolution possible. And I think it is clear that president-elect Obama said over the weekend that he is going to look for a new way to approach that. And Hillary Clinton reiterated that today, so, engagement with other countries that are your adversaries, rather than giving them the silent treatment.
BROWN: Tony, how did you see all this today?
TONY BLANKLEY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well I think, clearly, the fix was in on both sides of the isle and in the media. We all understood she was not going to be held to the same standards that most other nominees in either party would be held to.
When a few weeks ago the announcement was made, there was an agreement between Obama and her husband as to the kind of revelations they're going to make on the money, and nobody screamed bloody murder in town. So, we understood this was not going to be an issue, even though the Associated Press this morning came out with four more examples of big contributors that got... (CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: ... treatment.
BROWN: So, Tony, explain that to us then. You are the conservative on the panel. Explain why Republicans aren't screaming about all this?
BLANKLEY: I don't think there is much taste in this town, one, to go after Obama very hard right now. And, two, Hillary does stand in a different place. One, she is a woman. Barbara Boxer brought up the women's issues, which were I think pretty effective, all those men on the committee, Republicans and Democrats.
And Hillary showed her passion on the women's issues. She got 18 -- as Gloria mentioned, 18.5 million votes. That makes a difference. And for any number of reasons, and some I don't understand, she is just being given a pass. She's kind of floated above the process. She's going to get confirmed, unless something we have never heard of comes up.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: How about the fact she is a former senator who has also gone out of her way while in the Senate to work with many Republicans on some of the issues that she talked about today? She has got a lot of friends in the Republican Party.
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: There is Senate courtesy, because of the club.
But John Tower was denied it, even though he was a senator, because he was suspicious of drinking and whoring. There are examples of much tougher treatment for fellow senators. So, yes, she's a member of the club, but that doesn't fully explain it.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Let me get your take. What do you think it is?
RUBIN: I think that the senators on both sides looked at this and said, Hillary Clinton is going to be a tough-minded, cooperative, consultative secretary of state. She is going to listen to us. We have seen her operate in the Senate. We like what we see. Why should we make trouble over things that aren't really that relevant?
BROWN: All right, guys, stand by. We have got more to talk about on this subject.
When we come back, we want to talk about the man who actually wasn't at the hearings today, that of course being Bill Clinton. Republicans did raise questions about foreign donors to his foundation. The big question is, will they present a stumbling block for his wife? Also ahead, the all-star lineup for the inauguration. We're talking about some major league rock stars here. Yes, Stevie Wonder is one of them. And that is only the beginning. We will have the complete list.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: One of the thorniest issues in Hillary Clinton's entire confirmation process has been her husband's fund-raising activities.
Yes, Bill Clinton did release the list of contributors who donated millions of dollars to his Clinton Global Initiative. But, today, some top Republicans called on the former president to stop taking any foreign contributions.
At today's hearing, Senator Clinton argued that she has no conflict of interests here and that her husband's disclosures go way beyond what the law requires. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: No president has ever disclosed the contributions to his foundation. So when my husband agreed to disclose the contributions to his foundation, that was a very unprecedented event, which he was happy to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Back with me once again, Jamie Rubin, Tony Blankley, Gloria Borger.
Gloria, this isn't chump change. We're talking about millions of dollars worth of contributions here to Bill Clinton's foundation coming from places like Oman, like Kuwait, like Saudi Arabia, countries that will be having very serious talks with Hillary Clinton if she is in fact confirmed.
BORGER: Right. Sure.
BROWN: And what does the transition say about all this?
BORGER: Well, they raise the points that she raised there that you showed, that it is a nonprofit, that they don't benefit personally from it, and that they have been absolutely open about everything, more open than any former president has ever been.
However, you are in a situation that's completely unprecedented. And what a lot of people are calling for, in addition to what Senator Lugar is saying, they're saying, look, you say you are going to disclose annually. How about disclosing monthly, or how about disclosing every day on the Web when these contributions are made so there is transparency here, so people can see for themselves who's giving to the Clinton foundation just to make sure there are no special interests arrangements here?
They're sticking firm with their memorandum of understanding with the Obama folks. But I think you're going to see people continue to exert pressure for even more openness beyond what the Clinton folks are doing. And that's substantial, by the way, what they're doing.
BROWN: Tony, where are you with this? Do you agree with these Republican senators they should stop the contributions altogether or there are some room for compromise?
BLANKLEY: Look, I mean, when she says that he's never -- no other president has done this before. No other president had a wife who will become secretary of state.
This is real money. And I don't know what the answer is. But I do know that foreign intelligence services are going to know what -- where he's got his money from. And when she has to go out there and make decisions adversely to a country that dealt with a country that contributed, whether it's fair or not, this stuff is going to be put out there and it's going to try to reduce her credibility.
Now, I don't know that that's disqualifying but it's a negative element of her secretariatship that she's got to live with that she otherwise wouldn't have because you have a husband raising hundreds of millions of dollars around the world.
BROWN: Jamie, I mean, do a reality check. How much of this is legitimate, real concern, and how much is politics, it's Bill Clinton, who if you're a Republican, who doesn't like to pick on Bill Clinton?
RUBIN: Yes. I think that's certainly part of it and that Bill Clinton is not very popular. And I think what this issue shows, he's extraordinary popular around the world that's why he gets all these donations but he is not very popular with Republicans here at home and never has been. Remember, we went through a lot of these issues before. But I think, it would be nice if somebody would point out what this money does.
This is a charitable foundation that helps prevent AIDS in Africa, that helps prevent development problems, helping the poor in parts of the world. This is charitable work. This isn't lining the pockets of politicians.
BROWN: Right.
RUBIN: And I think that's a huge difference and one that people ought to begin to focus on. These are all charitable activities where Bill Clinton has been responsible for saving hundreds of thousands of lives around the world. But in the end, I think most senators are going to conclude that Hillary Clinton is a person of integrity and they've said that. And they don't think this is going to affect her decision making. And having been inside the government, it's pretty hard to imagine that it really would.
These are consensus decisions taken across government agencies, the Defense Department, the White House, the State Department, bureaus in the State Department. The idea that because of some donation to the president's library we're going to suddenly like a foreign country we didn't like before, is pretty absurd. BROWN: Right. But Jamie also raises an interesting point and that is his influence, generally. What it is likely to be, Gloria.
BORGER: Big. Yes.
BROWN: Well, Christopher Hitchens raises the point also and on Slate.com today and points out. Here's a quote. "Picture, if you will, Hillary Clinton facing a foreign policy conundrum: With whom will she discuss it first and most intently, with her president or her husband?"
What do you think?
BORGER: Well, you know her president is also -- her husband is also an ex-president. So I would argue.
BROWN: They're divided loyalties, I guess. If Bill Clinton feels one way about a certain thing, Obama another.
BORGER: Well, you know, I think you have to take that case by case, but I could see her going to Bill Clinton and say I have this problem. What do you think about this? I'm going to talk to the president about it. What's the best way for me to approach it? I don't see anything wrong with that whatsoever. I mean, Bill Clinton has an awful lot of experience in this arena which Barack Obama could presumably benefit from.
BROWN: Quickly, Jamie, can they speak with one voice, the three of them? Because Bill Clinton is still going to be out traveling the world. He certainly knows so many of these foreign leaders.
RUBIN: The point here is that I just compare it to the other party, and that's what this is all about. They all basically agree on how to approach the world and that's what we saw in the hearings.
BROWN: Right.
RUBIN: Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton they have a pretty united view. Might they differ on a tactic or two? Yes. Might it be helpful to hear from someone who's actually run a pretty good foreign policy? Bill Clinton? That might help too.
BROWN: Can't hurt.
RUBIN: We got to end it there. We're out of time, guys. But many thanks to Jamie Rubin, to Tony Blankley and Gloria Borger as always. Thanks, guys.
Still ahead, stars coming out for Obama's inauguration. But one of them may be in for a rough welcome. Who are we talking about? It's J. Lo.
Yes, we are making the transition from Clinton to J. Lo. We're going to take you into the controversy. You don't want to miss it.
But first, look at this, the guy in that taxi has a gun. He's firing right at the camera. We are going to have the story behind these pretty incredible pictures coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Coming up, the man who crashed a plane and tried to run from his problems is now in big trouble back home. We're going to update you on the manhunt for a daredevil fugitive. First though, Tom Foreman joining us tonight with "The Briefing" -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Campbell. We have incredible video of a man shooting at a police car from a taxi. This is the view from a police car's dashboard camera. Officers had pulled over the cab near Albany, New York.
As the driver ran for safety, authorities say 22-year-old Darren Brown fired at least 28 shots with a semiautomatic rifle. Police shot back and wounded Brown. He died last night. Amazingly, no one else was hurt.
Troubled financial giant Citigroup which got $45 billion in bailout money may be breaking up. Citigroup will merge with Smith Barney investment banking unit with Morgan Stanley. The new Morgan Stanley/Smith Barney will be one of America's biggest brokerages. Price tag for the deal $2.7 billion.
The host of "Deal or No Deal" is feeling a good deal better. Howie Mandell has been released from a Toronto hospital after treatment for an irregular heartbeat. A publicist says the 53-year- old comedian will be back at work tomorrow shooting his new prank show "Howie Do It."
Actress Emma Thompson and others are backing an unusual Greenpeace protest. The environmental group bought land next to London's Heathrow Airport in order to block the creation of a new runway. Greenpeace plans to divide up the land and turn it over to supporters including Thompson.
And art lovers check this out. An amazing new Google Earth software feature lets you zoom in on priceless art work at Madrid's Prado Museum. These are 14,000 megapixel images 1,400 times as detailed as a typical digital camera. Some say it's even better than seeing it in person. But I'll tell you, Campbell, having been to the Prado, I'll bet it's a good second best.
BROWN: Yes. Not better than in person but that is very cool. Very cool technology.
FOREMAN: Yes, very cool. Great thing for art lovers.
BROWN: Yes. Absolutely. Tom Foreman, thanks Tom. Appreciate it.
Coming up. Why is J. Lo getting jeered before she even takes the stage at the inaugural festivities? The pop star dissed by Obama supporters with long memories. That's in the "Political Daily Briefing." And then later, exciting news for some deserving kids you have come to know right here on "NO BIAS, NO BULL." Wait till you find out what happened to them in our "Bull's-Eye" tonight.
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ROHIT AGARWAL, FIFTH GRADER, INDIAN FIELDS ELEMENTARY: Dear President-elect Barack Obama. My name is Rohid Agarwal. I am 10 years old and I'm in fifth grade. I live in New Jersey.
My first point is to ride on cars on electricity and wind power and not to lose the ozone layer from the gas emissions. My second point is to help kids with no education or with serious diseases and kids who got hurt during war in Gaza. I really like your speeches on television and hope you will enjoy. I hope you enjoy reading my letter. And a happy new year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And a happy new year to you, too. That is iReporter, Rohid Agarwal, a fifth grader at Indian Fields Elementary in New Jersey. Very impressive.
If you've got a letter to the president-elect you like to share with us, go to CNN.com/campbell and click on the iReport link.
So which superstar is being slammed though for trying to worm her way into the Obama inaugural, and who's going to sing at this Sunday's opening ceremony? All in tonight's "Political Daily Briefing," an all-star inauguration edition. Erica Hill here with all the answers.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And indeed I am. Of course, what would an Obama inauguration celebration be without the celebrities? Lucky for you there will be plenty on hand even before he takes the oath.
Kicking off the festivities on Sunday afternoon, there is a free two-hour concert at the Lincoln Memorial with a lineup that is basically a who's who of the world. Beyonce, Garth Brooks, Queen Latifah, Stevie Wonder, John Legend, Sheryl Crow, Shakira, a Wolf Blitzer (INAUDIBLE). Then there's Bruce Springsteen and also some good friends from across the pond, U2 apparently stopping by.
The theme for the event is "we are one." The songs will mostly be covers of well known tunes that fit that theme. And some are speculating actually this event could be bigger than Bill Clinton's 1993 call to reunion concert. If, like me though you can't be there in person to celebrate, HBO is actually putting together a special free broadcast of that event to air later that night, Campbell.
BROWN: But two hours? How are all those people going to play in two hours? HILL: It's amazing because that really is just a small portion of the names, the number of actors there as well. A lot of them will be doing duets there or perhaps, you know, group numbers to fit everybody in.
BROWN: That's nice. I'm sure they're going to love that.
And, of course, it may be actually easier to watch this on TV because travel options in terms of getting to Washington becoming increasingly limited, right?
HILL: They are, and this is why. We found this information today that really kind of blew us away. We've heard so much about the fact that it's going to be tough to get there. Get your flight now. You know, if you're driving in, they could be closing off entire D.C. city streets to make space for all the charter buses coming into town.
But get this, a runway may also be shut down at Dulles Airport. It turns out all of those private planes, perhaps some of them used by the celebrities we just mentioned, will need a place to go. Closing one runway at Dulles would offer space for about 100 planes but that still would likely not be enough.
The Metropolitan Washington airport authority telling "The New York Times" it is planning for 500 planes. The record, by the way, about 300. And most of them will in fact be headed to Dulles international. It's about 40 minutes outside the city instead of the far more convenient Reagan Airport because of post 9/11 security concerns which limit the number of private aircraft that are allowed to fly into Reagan. That makes the extra flights and the bigger planes that commercial airlines are adding, frankly, Campbell, seem a little puny.
BROWN: Yes, indeed. And I'm sure these two are coming in on private jets. J. Lo and Marc Anthony...
HILL: Yes.
BROWN: ... who are going to be participating in some way at one of these inaugural events. But they were big Hillary Clinton supporters not Obama fans.
HILL: They were huge Hillary supporters and that alone has some people up in arms. Now they're both scheduled to be at the, I believe it's the Latino inaugural ball on Sunday night. And despite the talk of a country uniting behind a new president, these two really taking some heat just for appearing at the event.
J. Lo is supposed to speak at the ball on Sunday night. Her husband will perform. And get this, one Latino leader told "Page Six" the couple were "vile opportunists for worming their way into anything Obama related even though they had nothing to do with his win." Ouch.
BROWN: Yes.
HILL: That criticism because neither as you mention, Campbell, J. Lo nor Marc Anthony supported Obama in the election nor did they help to get him elected once he became the Democratic nominee. At least according to a lot of the folks who are griping, one person also said plus, they didn't donate any money and now they're just singing.
BROWN: OK. Well, you know what, every inauguration needs a little celebrity scandal.
HILL: There you go. And, of course, the question will be are they arriving together or not? And are they wearing the wedding rings?
BROWN: Oh, actually, that's for another show.
HILL: Yes.
BROWN: "Entertainment tonight." But thank you.
Erica Hill, good to have you here. Erica, thanks.
Barack Obama won't be sworn in until next Tuesday, but CNN's coverage of his inauguration begins this Saturday morning. Our reporters will cover every stop, every speech as the Obama express starts its historic journey to Washington. Be sure to tune in this Saturday morning only on CNN.
Coming up, some tough talk. Wait for it from Laura Bush. The first lady has got a beef with Barack Obama. You're going to hear why in a preview of Larry King's exclusive interview.
And later, the moneyman who crashed his plane and disappeared. Is he on the run from investors? We'll tell you.
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BROWN: This afternoon President Bush sat down for an exclusive exit interview with CNN's own Larry Ling who asked bluntly about who's at fault for the nation's economic mess. Take a listen.
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LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: What part in the economy's failure is the president to blame?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know in this case not to blow my own horn but I recognized the dangers inherent with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and asked Congress to regulate them for those worried about an implicit government guarantee in the mortgage industry and that they were getting a little overextended.
KING: Congress didn't listen?
BUSH: No. There's too many special interests here that were protecting Fannie and Freddie.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: Larry King joining us right now. Hi, Larry. I know you also talked to President and Mrs. Bush about President-elect Obama. And the first lady had a candid remark about his campaign for president, didn't she?
KING: She sure did, Campbell. I asked the president sitting next to his wife if he was looking forward to the inaugural next Tuesday and his thoughts about President-elect Obama. Watch.
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BUSH: I am looking forward to the inauguration of Barack Obama. I will have a front row seat in what is a historic moment for the country.
KING: You like him?
BUSH: I do. Yes, I do like him. And you'd like him too.
KING: Oh, I know. But he was so critical of you, do you take that personally or you don't?
LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: I did.
KING: You did? Were you angry at him?
L. BUSH: Yes, sort of. George didn't even really know about it because he didn't watch it that much. I don't think.
G. BUSH: So what's new?
L. BUSH: Yes, exactly?
G. BUSH: When you make big decisions and tough calls, you're going to get criticized. And yes, I, during the course of the presidency, of course, I've been disappointed at times by the silly name calling that goes on in Washington. It's really not necessary that it happened but I've done my best though to make sure I didn't bring the presidency down to that level.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Good stuff there, Larry. We'll watch. We'll see you in just a few.
KING: You got it, Campbell. I think you'll find it fascinating.
BROWN: Absolutely. All right.
Coming up -- when we come back, a mystery that gets more bizarre with each passing day. It started with a chilling emergency call and a plane crash. Well, it turns out the pilot was faking his own death. Tonight, new details about why he wanted to disappear.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Tonight, felony charges have been filed against a pilot who called Mayday from the cockpit of a small plane. Its wreckage was found but the man who made that emergency call has disappeared.
David Mattingly joins us now in Atlanta to put together the pieces of a very, very puzzling story -- David.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Campbell. We know he was a pilot and that he was in trouble with regulators over how he was doing business. We also know that Marcus Schrenker has managed to survive everyone who trusted him.
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MATTINGLY (voice-over): Financial manager Marcus Schrenker's apparent plan to disappear was elaborate to say the least. Authorities believe he left Indiana but parachuted out of his plane over central Alabama and landed remarkably close to a hotel where he was caught on tape checking in. It was then just a short walk to a rented storage space where he had a red motorcycle parked and waiting. He was gone before anyone got suspicious.
WANDA BROOKS, OWNER, 280 MINI STORAGE: Well, my husband actually looked in the dumpster and there was his clothes. His wet shoes and jeans and shirt and socks and everything. So -- crazy.
MATTINGLY: But somewhere Schrenker's alleged plan fell apart. His plane flew pilotless for more than 200 miles before crashing in a Florida Panhandle swamp. He had to know everyone would think something was up when rescuers found no body.
TOM BRITT, COLLEAGUE: When I heard about this plane crash, my first reaction was this is -- this has to be staged.
MATTINGLY: Friend Tom Britt says Schrenker sent him an e-mail sticking to his story that the crash was an accident. That he was injured and bloodied when his windshield imploded. Authorities in Florida found no evidence of this.
BRITT: At the end of the e-mail the most disturbing part was he said by the time you read this I'll be gone. And I interpreted that as a suicide note. I think anybody would. That was the disturbing part to me.
MATTINGLY: Long before he disappeared, Marcus Schrenker was leaving behind a trail of legal problems that's now easy to follow. Complaints from customers cost him his license to sell insurance in Kentucky and Georgia. Now Indiana authorities have filed two felony charges against Schrenker. They want to take away his license there and levee fines for allegedly defrauding investors.
JIM ATTERHOLT, INDIANA DEPT. OF INSURANCE: If these allegations are true he is clearly a crudball, because anyone that would do this to their friends and neighbors and be so brash about it deserves the -- the full penalty that's coming to them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: Now what he was allegedly doing is putting his clients in and out of annuities over and over again. He collects a big commission, his clients pay a big penalty. And they're not sure yet how many people might have lost money, Campbell.
BROWN: All right. David, though, it does seem like he's not exactly been careful here, sending e-mails leaving behind clothes. I mean, any idea if authorities might be closing in on him?
MATTINGLY: Well, the U.S. marshals have taken up the chase now and they've got plenty of places to look. We know that this man has had business contacts all over the eastern half of the U.S., also in the Bahamas. I mean, he could be anywhere.
We know that he can fly. We know that he has some boating experience. This guy has many methods to move himself around, so they've got their hands full.
BROWN: David Mattingly for us tonight. David, thanks.
And still to come tonight, more spirited singing from these great kids who got a big surprise today courtesy of Barack Obama. We're going to tell you what it is when we come back.
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RON CLARK ACADEMY STUDENTS: McCain on the right. We can talk politics all night and you can vote however you like. I say you can vote however you like. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: You probably remember this song and these kids from way back in the olden days of the presidential campaign. They are students at Atlanta's Ron Clark Academy and their song "You Can Vote However You Like" went viral when it was posted on the Internet. Well today, the Ron Clark kids got some very exciting news.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And basically, we're going to the inauguration!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: They are going to the inauguration. Not only do the Ron Clark kids get tonight's "Bull's-Eye" they also get to sing their new song for the new president himself.
It is called "Dear Mr. President." Here's a sample.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RON CLARK ACADEMY STUDENTS, ATLANTA, GEORGIA: Dear Obama hear us sing we're ready for the change that you will bring. Going the shine the light for the world to see to spread hope and democracy. The time is now to bring our troops home. Iraq can stand strong on their own. And fight for health care for the young.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And that's going to do it for us tonight. Congratulations to them.
"LARRY KING LIVE" exclusive interview with President Bush and the first lady starts right now.
