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American Morning
Obama to Order Closure of Guantanamo Bay on His First Week in Office; Hillary Clinton's Confirmation Hearing Set Today; Missing Pilot Fakes Death; Israeli Attacks on Gaza Escalate; A Look at the Education Crisis Facing the Incoming Administration
Aired January 13, 2009 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: "USA Today" reporting that a troubled district in Ohio applied for $100 million to expand a school where the kids are cramped. And a district in Florida is reportedly working on a proposal for a half billion dollars.
And breaking overnight, North Korea making some noise a week before Barack Obama takes office. According to the Associated Press, North Korea now saying that it will not give up its nuclear weapons unless the U.S. removes its atomic threat. So far, no response from the State Department.
And it's just seven days now until the transition to power is complete, but Barack Obama is already beginning to act like the commander in chief. Obama may be getting ready to issue an executive order, his first week in office, perhaps even his first day, to close the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is live for us from Washington. The news out this morning that he does plan to order this closing at Guantanamo Bay once he takes office. Tell us a little bit more about why he's making this such a top priority.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Kiran, it's one of those things that kept coming up in the campaign, along with ending the Iraq war and it really generated a lot of support among the people who really liked what he was saying. For Barack Obama, as the candidate, it's one of those things that he plans on delivering.
This is going to be a tough thing, however. I mean, the first week that he's in office, he's going to have this executive order essentially calling for this prison to be shut down but they really got to figure out where are you going to put these detainees, which countries are going to take them. That has been a problem for the Bush administration. It's not like the Bush administration hasn't looked at all of the legal issues before in looking at Guantanamo Bay, but this is really a very big break from the Bush administration.
It's symbolic, and it really shows that Obama wants to go in a different direction, that he's delivering on one of these campaign promises, to people who really initially liked him, supported him, and also wanted to see the end to the Iraq war.
CHETRY: And, of course, yesterday was President Bush's final press conference. We saw you there, and he had some fun yesterday with you at the final press conference. Let's check out a little bit of it.
MALVEAUX: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, Suzanne? I finally got your name right after what?
MALVEAUX: Yes.
BUSH: Six years?
MALVEAUX: Eight years.
BUSH: Eight years. You used to be known as Suzanne. Now you're Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Suzanne, thank you.
BUSH: I'm George.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Got a little laugh at your expense. You've always been Suzanne, I remember when we were --
MALVEAUX: I've always been -- was born Suzanne. But my parents are very happy that he's now learned how to pronounce my name. We've been back and forth about this over years. When I first met him, he said Suzanne and I said, Mr. President, I'm sorry it's Suzanne. And then he's like, oh, it's just my Texas accent.
CHETRY: And you're like, no, that's really my name.
MALVEAUX: Yes, yes. But you'll be Kiran for now on, you know. You know, it took him awhile to get it but it's funny he finally did. His press people used to say Mr. President, remember, it's Suzanne.
CHETRY: It's hilarious.
MALVEAUX: Yes.
CHETRY: But he said what? It's only taken me six years and you burst to say "or eight"? But who's counting?
MALVEAUX: Yes, well, it was really kind of an interesting press conference, kind of bizarre in a way, because we did see him talk about things we never really heard before. He was very reflective and admitting mistakes, that kind of thing but also he doesn't take himself too seriously. So I think that's what you saw as well.
CHETRY: Yes. It will be -- you know, in some ways you guys will miss him and it will be a whole new day in just a week.
MALVEAUX: And then we'll work on President Obama. See if he gets my name right. CHETRY: Exactly.
MALVEAUX: We'll see how long it takes him.
CHETRY: Suzanne, thank you so much.
MALVEAUX: Kiran.
CHETRY: Well, all this week we're looking at the top five issues that Barack Obama will face as president. We're breaking them down with our own expert panel. So if you have a question that you want us to ask, go ahead. You can go to CNN.com/am and send it to us.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Hillary Clinton facing her colleagues today. Confirmation hearings for Barack Obama's secretary of state nominee begin in less than two and a half hours. She has been prepping for this moment, with almost a dozen advisers and is expected to stress renewal of American leadership and smart power.
Jill Dougherty is live on Capitol Hill this morning with a preview. Just how is Hillary Clinton expected to make her case today, Jill?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me tell you a little bit where we are. Right now, we're at the Hart Senate office building and right behind me, you can see where the hearing will be taking place. Not much happening at this point but as you said, two and a half hours from now, it will begin.
They will open up. John Kerry, who's the chairman of the committee, will open up. Then the ranking Republican, Dick Lugar, will make his remarks, then an introduction by Chuck Schumer and then finally Hillary Clinton.
And interestingly, by the way, John, she is going to be answering questions, you know, verbally but also answering questions that have been given by the committee in written form, so we'll be look looking for those. It will be quite interesting and more precise answer perhaps on some of the things.
What she's going to do is two-pronged. Number one, she's going to talk about, as you mentioned, the new approach by the Obama administration on U.S. power, renewed American leadership, and also a reemphasis on diplomacy, and essentially there's three parts to that. Maybe we can pull up that graphic and take a peek at what is going to be talked about here.
One is smart power, being smarter to be stronger, as they would argue, using all the tools of foreign policy, diplomacy at the forefront, and backed up by military power.
The second one would be forging new bonds around the world. That's definitely a shot over the bow to the previous administration, saying that now they want to be, the Obama administration wants to be more engaged globally in a cooperative fashion with other countries, and also a stronger partnership with the allies. That's one thing you're definitely going to see.
ROBERTS: A lot of people would agree that there's a lot of repair work for the United States to do in the global environment, so we'll have a look and see what she has to say this morning. We're watching those hearings very closely. Jill Dougherty for us this morning. Jill, thanks so much.
And don't forget, join the best political team for complete coverage of Hillary Clinton's confirmation hearings beginning at 9:30 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN. And if you can't, don't have access to a television but you do have access to a computer, you can also watch it on CNN.com/live.
CHETRY: Time now is six minutes after the hour. Here's a look at what's new this morning.
Israel's attacks in Gaza city are escalating. Troops and tanks are pushing into the city of 400,000 from two directions. Residents hiding in bunkers and basements as helicopters attack from overhead.
Israel's warships are also firing on the city from the coast. U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon will head to the region today to step up diplomatic efforts.
The perjury case against baseball star Roger Clemens reportedly being investigated by a federal grand jury now. Congress asked the justice department to find out whether or not Clemens lied when testifying that he'd never taken performance-enhancing drugs. The seven-time Cy Young winner denies ever using steroids.
And a blizzard bringing snow and bone-chilling temperatures to the Dakotas, Illinois, Indiana. Chicago's airports could see more travel delays after hundreds of flights were canceled yesterday. A live look now at the windy city and that wind could mean some whiteout conditions later on this morning.
Our Rob Marciano is tracking things for us from the weather center. It's going to get very cold in a lot of places today.
(WEATHER REPORT)
CHETRY: Yes. All right. Thanks, Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: See you.
ROBERTS: Speaking of freezing, an Indiana judge has frozen the assets of a pilot who investigators say faked his own death. They believe that Marcus Schrenker parachuted out of his plane over at Alabama before it eventually crashed in Florida. Schrenker's businesses are under investigation. According to reports, police think that he fled on a motorcycle that was stashed in a rented storage unit in Alabama.
Brooke Baldwin is live from Harpersville, Alabama. She's got the latest on, Brooke, what anybody could say is an unbelievably bizarre tale. BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Unbelievable indeed. John, good morning.
It appeared that Marcus Schrenker had it all. He had a $4 million lakefront home, ran his own businesses, had two planes and as we're learning possibly had a motorcycle. But we are also learning, well, that his image was spiraling downward, perhaps reason enough, according to police for him to fake his own death.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN (voice-over): Thirty-eight-year-old Marcus Schrenker, seen in this YouTube video, likes to perform tricks from the cockpit. But Sunday night this Indiana businessman allegedly pulled off the biggest stunt of his life.
Police say Schrenker was alone, flying to Florida in his single- engine prop plane when he radioed for help near Huntsville, Alabama. Schrenker told air traffic controllers his windshield had imploded and he was bleeding severely. When they radioed back, no response. A little later according to the FAA, his plane crashed in a Florida swamp barely missing nearby homes.
SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SANTA ROSA, FLA., SHERIFF'S OFFICE: Our belief is now that it was put on autopilot somewhere around the Birmingham area, and the pilot parachuted out of the plane and landed in the Harpersville, Alabama area.
BALDWIN: Later that night, Richard Ferguson says Schrenker showed up on his property. The Alabama man who wouldn't go on camera claims the pilot told him what he now thinks is a tall tale, the same story Schrenker later told police, who took him to a motel.
VOICE OF RICHARD FERGUSON, WITNESS: He just told me that him and two of his buddies was canoeing, turned the canoe over I heard in the (INAUDIBLE) river.
BALDWIN (on camera): Schrenker was last seen here at the Harpersville Motel in Alabama. According to police Sunday night, he checked into that room, paid in cash and faked his name on this receipt, before taking off into the woods. But the question still remains, who is Marcus Schrenker and why would he be on the run?
(voice-over): Perhaps one reason, the state of Indiana is investigating securities violations and a string of bankruptcies related to Schrenker's three financial management companies. Tom Britt is a colleague.
TOM BRITT, COLLEAGUE: Why someone would jump out of an airplane, leave it on autopilot with his training and his background is beyond me? There's just no -- there's no reason for him to do that, other than trying to stave something.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: The Associated Press is reporting this morning that Schrenker e-mailed Tom Britt, who we just heard from, last night claimed this whole thing was an accident. The crash was an accident and that he wanted his companies that are under investigation to succeed. He also alluded to suicide in that e-mail, but the authenticity of the e-mail, John, has not been verified.
Also, I want to let you know, CNN, of course, has reached out to representatives of Schrenkers to no avail. We've also called a couple of different numbers listed for his companies and those numbers, John, have been disconnected.
ROBERTS: But Brooke, there seems to be little doubt that this guy parachuted out of the plane and is on the run. He couldn't have just fallen out of the plane before it crashed?
BALDWIN: No one has found a parachute. That I have heard. But with regard to the latest sort of twist of the tale, the fact that according to "Birmingham News," they found this motorcycle or there was a motorcycle that once existed in the storage unit and the motorcycle was gone but they did find some wet clothes. Still no parachute.
ROBERTS: What a bizarre story. Brooke Baldwin for us this morning. Brooke, thanks so much.
BALDWIN: Sure.
CHETRY: All right. Well, do you shop online to avoid paying pesky sales taxes in your state? Well, more and more states finding their budgets in a crunch could be getting harder to click and save. We'll explain.
It's 13 minutes after the hour.
Roadblock, authorities unveil a massive security plan to keep Washington safe on Inauguration Day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm staying home. I'm going to watch it on television.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Details on the lockdown into the city and what happens if police suddenly need to get people out?
You're watching the Most News in the Morning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: With all the bridges and road closings on Inaugural Day, the problem isn't just about people getting into the District of Columbia, but how about getting them back out after Barack Obama is sworn in?
Homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve is live in Fairfax, Virginia, this morning with a look at the inaugural traffic nightmare and the security plans. Hi, Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kiran. This is the nerve center where official will monitor traffic in northern Virginia. They are bracing for a couple of very difficult days.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): On your average day, Washington's traffic is a mess. The very thought of jamming a million or more inaugural visitors onto the roads has some locals throwing in the towel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're trying to stay away from it as far as we can. We live across in Virginia and we know we can't get here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I live here and I'm staying home. I'm going to watch it on television.
MESERVE: An elaborate transportation plan will ban private cars from two major routes into the city and all the bridges from Virginia. For security reasons, a big swathe of downtown will be closed to cars, too. Another part of the transportation plan, how to get people out of the city.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been working with the Secret Service, the Homeland Security agency, as well as our surrounding jurisdictions to come up with a plan to deal with the possibility that we may have to evacuate the mall and other areas.
MESERVE: On Inauguration Day, computers will integrate information from cameras, sensors, traffic and police reports, allowing officials throughout the region to monitor traffic flow in real time.
MICHAEL PACK, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: If they start to see something turn ugly, they can initiate backup plans, whether that be detours, routing traffic around a particular incident.
MESERVE: 3-D modeling complete with weather effects will provide an even more detailed picture.
PACK: It's almost like having a virtual helicopter that allows you to fly around.
MESERVE: A car isn't the only way to get into the city, of course. Metro, Washington's mass transit system, will increase the capacity of its subway trains and buses. Amtrak will be able to carry 50 percent more people than usual, and the city has set aside parking space for an expected 10,000 charter buses from all over the country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Now if you are determined to come into Washington for the inauguration, a couple of tips. Plan very well. Also check transportation Web sites for any kinds of updates and officials say you should pack two things, your walking shoes and your patience. Kiran, back to you.
CHETRY: That's right. They're not letting you take backpacks, right? No strollers. I mean, they're getting really strict about it.
MESERVE: Yes, real restrictions on what you can carry in. No coolers either.
CHETRY: All right. Pack your patience. Very true.
Jeanne Meserve, thanks so much.
Well, the Most News in the Morning is going on the road for Inauguration Day. John and me will be live from Washington next Tuesday for a five-hour edition of AMERICAN MORNING. where Barack Obama is sworn in midday.
And also later that night, you can watch the inauguration with your laptop at hand. Cnn.com is teaming up with Facebook for special in-depth coverage. You can be part of history by logging on to facebook.com/CNN.
ROBERTS: Joe the war correspondent, formerly known as Joe the plumber, he's now in the Middle East covering the conflict and telling the media to stay out of it. Yes, that's for real. He also has some advice for the president-elect. Can't wait.
All this week we're looking at the top five issues facing the president-elect. Today an education system in dire straits. We'll break down the issues just ahead.
It's coming up now on 20 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Well, all this week, we are looking at the five biggest issues facing the incoming president. America's education system has some of the best colleges and universities in the world, while many public schools are overcrowded and underfunded. So how do you bridge that gap and also the achievement gap?
Joining me now, former Education Secretary Rod Paige, this year's National Teacher of the Year, Michael Geisen, and California Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell.
Gentlemen, good to see you. Thanks for being with us.
Mr. Secretary, let me start with you. How is it that the United States is renowned for having one of the best college systems in the world and yet at the same time we have so many problems with our public schools?
ROD PAIGE, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF EDUCATION: Well, you know, we can actually have the best K-12 system in the world as well. I think one of the places we can start is finding a way to get better cooperation between the policymakers and the practitioners and find a way to offer more respect for those professionals who are actually in the school doing the work.
ROBERTS: All right. So, Michael Geisen, you're a teacher of the year. How do you get that better cooperation between the policymakers and the people on the front line?
MICHAEL GEISEN, 2008 NATIONAL TEACHER OF THE YEAR: There needs to be a level of respect and communication I think, the balance between the 30,000-foot view and the view on the ground. And what that means is there needs to be teachers, there needs to be students, in fact, even with their voices in the important policy arenas.
ROBERTS: Right. Jack O'Connell, let's take a look at the statistics here. This comes from the EP Research Center and the America's Promise Alliance. High school graduation rates in this country, take a look here, the overall graduation rate just a little less than 70 percent but among black students, it's 53.4 percent. Hispanic, 57.8. White, 76.2. Asians, 80.2 percent.
How best to close that achievement gap and not only between advantaged students and minorities but also American students and students elsewhere in the world?
JACK O'CONNELL, CALIF. SUPT. OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: John, I think you really hit the nail on the head. That is the civil-rights issue, in my opinion, for this decade and closing that achievement gap is so important for us, not just educationally but also economically. And it's going to take different strategies designed to meet the unique individual needs of each of those subgroups and other subgroups.
ROBERTS: You know, Michael, you won "Teacher of the Year" because of your unique techniques in teaching. You know, part of the whole problem here is engaging students, keeping them interested. How do you do it?
GEISEN: Well, you know, I teach science and I teach middle school. It really what it comes down to is engaging the natural curiosity and inquisitiveness of children. And in a system that is so focused on accountability in numbers and test scores, it's difficult to do but it takes a little bit of -- a little bit of risk.
Sometimes using, in fact, what I usually do is use the arts to teach science, so theater, dance, artistic endeavors, allowing students to create something, to become involved in the process, and to find the relevant way for them to connect to the real world, instead of isolated bits of knowledge.
ROBERTS: You know, Mr. Secretary, in some of the most prominent school systems in this nation, namely New York and Washington, D.C., some of the most problematic as well, incoming superintendents, Michelle Rhee in Washington and Joe Klein, who's been working here in New York for a while, believe that accountability is really the key here. They want to end teacher tenure. They also want to pay teachers based on student outcomes. Are those good models to apply across the nation? PAIGE: Absolutely. I admire those leaders too. They're showing the way and we can learn a lot from them. Accountability absolutely is the way assuming that you have great standards and accountability for those standards.
ROBERTS: Right. We want to take a short break here. A number of issues that we still want to go over, including merit pay for teachers, the No Child Left Behind Act and what to do about the high cost of college and making sure that more students have access to it.
So gentlemen if you would, stay with us. We'll be right back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Twenty-nine minutes after the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
We're looking at the education crisis facing Barack Obama's incoming administration, part of our series on Obama's top five. And joining me again in our panel, former Education Secretary Rod Paige, 2008 National Teacher of the Year Michael Geisen and California Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell.
Michael, let me throw this question to you because many of the candidates on the trail talked about this idea of merit pay. You pay a teacher based on performance. Of course, the teachers union is very much against this. As a teacher, do you agree or do you not agree with the concept of merit pay?
GEISEN: You know, I think what really comes down to is what merit really is and basing pay on performance, that makes sense to me as long as we're measuring actually what teachers do. And unfortunately, the way it's set up right now in most places is that performance is based on a very narrow set of what we consider intelligence.
ROBERTS: Right.
GEISEN: And what we consider that teachers do. Teachers do so much more than just teach basic knowledge, and if we could find a way to adequately and accurately assess what teachers do in the lives of their students, not looking at 20th-century skills that are largely outdated but looking at skills that are more applicable to the 21st century...
ROBERTS: Right.
GEISEN: ... and looking at a broader range of skills that we're actually teaching, then I think the conversations can begin about merit pay.
ROBERTS: And, Jack O'Connell, another huge issue that's facing the incoming president, these budgetary constraints and with the economy being the way it is, tax revenues down, expenses going up. I know there in California, you're experiencing similar budget crunch, $40 billion shortfall. There's even some proposal to cut the school year back by five days. I mean, how can you deal with a budget crunch there and still try to maintain high quality education and even raise the quality of education?
O'CONNELL: Well you're absolutely right, John, that's the $40 billion challenge that we have, and to roll the school calendar back five days would further put us at an additional competitive disadvantage, not only with other states but other countries. 34 of the 44 most industrialized countries on the planet go to school 180 days or more, and for to us roll back five days would economically, I believe really hurt us. But the best way to describe the budget situation here in California right now is one four-letter word that I can use, it's ugly.
ROBERTS: Right.
O'CONNELL: We're looking at mid-year cuts, and not getting as much help or support from the governor as we wanted. We're talking about rolling back our class size reduction program, which is a lot and I wrote when I was in the legislature which would be extremely unfortunate. We need to invest in the future and we really do invest in the future by investing in public education.
ROBERTS: Yes, a lot of budgetary pressures. I know that they will be on the incoming president-elect as well. He's got an $18 billion program to expand early childhood education, invest in teacher programs and Secretary Paige, you know one of the other long-standing complaints here, the no child left behind act, which many people complained was mandated by the federal government yet not fully funded.
You know, there are even more funding constraints now. What does the incoming president-elect in your estimation need to do with the program that you implemented? Does he need to reform it? Does he need to fully fund it? Does he need to scrap it all together?
PAIGE: Well I think there are many misunderstandings about the no child left behind. First of all, I think it's the most important federal policy since 1965. What we really need to do is take a good look at it. There are some things that can be improved. There are some things that can be changed but the basic fundamentals of the no child left behind act I hope remain in place and I suggest that we take a good, strong look at it and try to fix those issues that need to be fixed but keep the fundamentals of the no child left behind act.
ROBERTS: Right. One of the issues that I really want to get to here because it's a great concern, post-primary school education, post-secondary education in colleges, and it's been a concern to people who have been e-mailing me this morning as well. Here's one e- mail that comes from Sam "can anything be done to help students get out from under debt that many of them face from the ridiculously high costs of college in this country?"
Michael, I know that you're not a policymaker but this issue of you know, how do you pay for college must come up with your students. You got any ideas?
MICHAEL: You know, I wish I did. I teach in a poor rural community in Oregon, and college is a huge, a huge hurdle for most students to get to, not only financially but also just culturally.
ROBERTS: Well, Jack, what have you got to offer?
O'CONNELL: Well, I'm pleased with many of the public utterances of President-elect Obama, where he talks about people enter the teaching profession, enter and work and teach like Michael does, in some of the more challenging schools, at some of our urban-challenged schools, rural schools and some of our subject areas where we're deficient in the areas of math, science, special education, and then you'll be able to secure loan forgiveness.
ROBERTS: And Mr. Secretary, let me give you the last word here because you were a policymaker, what does the incoming president-elect need to do to try to make college more accessible, more affordable in this country?
PAIGE: Well, let me you cut in on the fact that you called Michael, not a policymaker but Michael should be a policymaker. We need to find a way to invite Mike and others like him, great teachers, into the policy-making arena. That's I think one of the big things that we can do to improve policy.
ROBERTS: Right. But can that -- but could that improve college affordability, that's the question.
PAIGE: Absolutely. If we get more students eligible for college, we can work on ways to get more students in college. College affordability is an important principle that we've got to work on because if a student feels that college is not a possibility for them, that it's a possibility, that would encourage them to drop out and that's a problem that we got to fix.
ROBERTS: Former Secretary Rod Paige, Michael Geisen and Jack O'Connell, thanks for being with us. Hang around because we want to come back to you next hour and talk about more issues facing students in America including this idea, too, of paying students for performance.
So a number of interesting issues to tackle next hour. Thanks very much.
And you can follow along with all of our top five all this week online, just go to cnn.com/am. You can also submit a question for our panel. We read one of them just a couple of minutes ago. They're going to be back again next hour as we said. That's cnn.com/am.
Tomorrow we're going to look at the top three priority, national security -- Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. Thanks, John.
Well, he'll be joining the exclusive club of ex-presidents just a week from today. In the meantime, President Bush is defending his legacy and also the way he responded to the financial meltdown.
CNN's Mary Snow joins us now with very interesting to hear the president in his final press conference yesterday talk about all of these issues over the past eight years.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it really was. And as you know, he was very frank. The president painted a picture of a country on the verge of economic collapse four months ago when the financial crisis began to unravel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): President Bush defending his handling of the economic crisis didn't mince words when describing the dangers if the government didn't pump billions into financial institutions. He laid out a stark scenario.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I readily concede a chunk to side some of my free-market principles when I was told by chief economic advisers that the situation we were facing could be worse than the Great Depression.
SNOW: Some economists we spoke with were skeptical of the doomsday scenario, but they say it's impossible to know exactly how bad things would have gotten if the government didn't help rescue financial institutions after Lehman Brothers and Washington Mutual collapsed but they agree on this point.
BUSH: The actions we have taken, I believe, have helped thaw the credit markets. This is the first step toward recovery.
SNOW: Is there a thaw in the credit markets?
MARIA FIORINI RAMIREZ, PRESIDENT & CEO, MFR: I think there is less panic in the credit markets than we had a few months ago.
SNOW: Economist Maria Fiorini-Ramirez says one measure is the Libor index, which measures the rate at which banks borrow from each other. It spiked in September and October, when fears were high, but has since declined.
RAMIREZ: There was a freeze in terms of business lending to each other especially by banks.
SNOW: So it gives us a pulse on the credit market and whether or not --
RAMIREZ: Exactly. Yes.
SNOW: And that pulse is showing improvement, say economists, who also see as a positive sign that mortgage rates are at a 37-year low, but, they say credit is by no means flowing easily.
DAVID WYSS, CHIEF ECONOMIST, STANDARD & POOR'S: One of the areas that really scares me is student loans. You're seeing very little private student loan activity. SNOW: Economists say while lending improves, it still won't be able to stem massive job losses. Some economists estimate the U.S. could lose two million more jobs in 2009.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: Now along with its forecast of millions of jobs lost next year, this year, that is, the conference board, which is a business research firm, says it sees no sign of the labor market will improved any time soon.
CHETRY: Mary, as you were also pointing out, credit to students trying to get college loans also is one of those markets that have really dried up.
SNOW: Yes, and the economists are saying that they're not seeing that credit flowing and that they fear is going to be a big problem.
CHETRY: All right. Mary Snow, thank you so much.
SNOW: Sure.
CHETRY: Well President and Mrs. Bush will be guests tonight, by the way, on "LARRY KING LIVE." It airs at 9 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.
ROBERTS: Honest Abe is getting a lot of props lately especially from the man checking into and out of the White House. So why the obsession with our 16th president? We'll take a look. It's coming up on 38 minutes now after the hour.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY (voice-over): What would Martin Luther King Jr. say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had great faith in the fairness and decency of the American people.
CHETRY: The road to the White House goes through Memphis, how Barack Obama is already making some history at the National Civil Rights museum. You're watching the Most News in the Morning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Well Dr. Martin Luther King could have lived to see Barack Obama become president. He was only 39 years old when he was assassinated in Memphis, Tennessee. We can only imagine what he would be thinking today, just a week before Barack Obama becomes the nation's first black president.
John Zarrella joins us live from Memphis this morning with the latest in our special "Road to the White House" series. You know, all we can do is imagine.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Kiran and the "Road to the White House" as you mentioned brings to us Memphis, Tennessee, and the National Civil Rights Museum and the Lorraine Motel where Dr. King was killed.
If he had lived, what might Dr. King have said about the Obama presidency?
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ZARRELLA (voice-over): Memphis, the Lorraine Motel, in the parking lot below room 306, two vintage Cadillacs. History's detail preserved. This is where Martin Luther King Jr. died, 1968.
GWEN HARMON, NATIONAL CIVIL RIGHTS MUSEUM: It's not so important that Martin Luther King Jr. died here, it's that he lived here and he changed Memphis. He changed America, and he did change the world.
ZARRELLA: Gwen Harmon is director of the National Civil Rights Museum of which the Lorraine is a part. Since Barack Obama's victory, Harmon has sensed a change in those who come here.
HARMON: We see curiosity. We see pride. We see a sense of hope now. The groups are younger. They're bigger. We also see more diversity.
ZARRELLA: And all of this would have pleased Dr. King.
CLARENCE JONES, ADVISER TO MARTIN LUTHER KING: He had great faith in the fairness and decency of the American people.
ZARRELLA: Clarence Jones, for eight years until King died, Jones was his confidante, speech writer, attorney. About an African- American president? What he would say, however long it takes, and some reasonable period of time, not an eternity, but in some reasonable period of time, there will be, I'm sure he would have said, there will.
ZARRELLA: And more.
HARMON: He would say still so much to do. As long as a child went to bed hungry, we have work to do.
ZARRELLA: The museum tells the story of those who paved the way in civil and human rights. There's a bus from the 1955 Montgomery boycotts. We leave the bus and we come to the next period of time?
HARMON: 1960. This is actually my favorite exhibit. This shows the power of networking, as far as the movement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody ready?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes!
ZARRELLA: Today, students from Arlington Elementary are here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. King he'd probably feel very proud.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that he would feel good, because he would know that he helped change. ZARRELLA: Change that might not have taken place, Harmon and Jones say, if not for those like Dr. King, who paved the way with their blood and tears.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA: Those who were part of the civil-rights movement, many of them say that what Barack Obama has accomplished is not dissimilar to what Dr. King did. Both men built a movement, very much based on support, substantial support from white America. Kiran.
CHETRY: Very true. John Zarrella for us this morning. Thank you.
ROBERTS: A bizarre case takes another strange turn. Investigators are looking for a man they say faked his death by bailing out of his plane. Now a judge has frozen his assets. We'll have the latest on this strange tale. It's 44 minutes after the hour.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS (voice-over): The Lincoln legacy.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Abraham Lincoln.
BUSH: Abraham Lincoln.
ROBERTS: The man in the big hat makes a big comeback but some say it's gone too far.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I worry when presidents try to massage the lessons of history.
ROBERTS: Why relying too heavily on the words and legacy of a past president is risky. You're watching the Most News in the Morning.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. Over and over, one name seems to be on everyone's lips in Washington, it's all over the front of today's "New York Post" as well. From the president to the president-elect, there's a whole lot of love for Abraham Lincoln.
Carol Costello is live in Washington looking at the fascination surrounding our 16th president. Good morning, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Isn't it strange, John? It's strange. I mean, if you're in a tight spot and you're a politician, all you have to do is ask, oh, not him up there, but ask Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln is the man with all the answers, and not just for Barack Obama. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): He's a rock star. No, not him. Him. The big man in the stovetop hat is Washington's "it" man. Barack Obama reveres him. Up to using Lincoln's Bible at his inaugural, visiting Lincoln's Memorial on Saturday in D.C. and speaking of Lincoln's spirit often.
OBAMA: Abraham Lincoln did not simply win a war or hold the union together.
COSTELLO: Even George Bush in his last news conference as president spoke of a spiritual bond with Lincoln.
BUSH: I've been reading you know, a lot about Abraham Lincoln during my presidency and there's some pretty harsh discord when it came to the 16th president, just like there's been harsh discord for the 43rd president.
COSTELLO: His story in saying Richard Nixon related to Lincoln, too. His sentiments playing out in the movie "Nixon." It's true, Nixon paid a midnight visit to Lincoln's Memorial at the height of the Vietnam war, searching for spiritual answers from a dead Civil War president, but finding war protesters instead.
NIXON: Hi. I'm Dick Nixon.
COSTELLO: Some historians worry all of this Lincoln love is a bit much. Harold Holzer wrote "Lincoln, President-Elect."
HAROLD HOLZER, AUTHOR, "LINCOLN PRESIDENT-ELECT": I worry when presidents try to massage the lessons of history to fit the contours of their own problems and their own reactions.
COSTELLO: Holzer does not think Barack Obama is guilty of that, others do. Perhaps it began during the campaign when George McGovern introduced Obama in Illinois.
GEORGE MCGOVERN,: Illinois gave us Abraham Lincoln. That state may now have given us a second Abraham Lincoln.
COSTELLO: When artists started to morph Obama and Lincoln's faces, meet Linc-oma. Or when Obama said a portrait of Lincoln in his office asks him questions.
It prompted Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan to write in "The Wall Street Journal": "I'm sure that Lincoln portrait asks, 'Barack why are you such an egomaniac?' Or perhaps is it no longer possible in American politics to speak of another's greatness without suggesting your own."
Others give Obama and other Lincoln lovers the befit of the doubt. Lincoln's history is so rich, so varied there is something about him we can all relate to.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COSTELLO: And you know, John, that is certainly true. Nobody actually knows how many books have been written about Lincoln. I went on amazon.com yesterday, more than 1,000 books about Lincoln are on amazon.com. America, Americans are as enthralled with Lincoln as politicians are.
ROBERTS: Well, I mean, you know, it is impossible to miss the historic link though, the emancipation, proclamation of America's first black president. You know, it all kind of comes together. Carol, thanks so much for that.
COSTELLO: Sure.
ROBERTS: Fifty-one minutes after the hour.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY (voice-over): Have a seat.
ROLAND BURRIS (D), ILLINOIS SENATE APPOINTEE: I have no regrets what I went through.
CHETRY: The man who will replace Barack Obama in the senate joins us live.
Plus, the humble beginnings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Illinois gave us Abraham Lincoln.
CHETRY: The lawyer instincts. And the lankiness.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That state may now have given us a second Abraham Lincoln.
CHETRY: Barack Obama's obsession with old, honest Abe. And whether the comparison should end there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I worry when presidents try to massage the lessons of history.
CHETRY: On the most politics in the morning.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Senator Hillary Clinton heads to Capitol Hill today. She's going to begin confirmation hearings as Barack Obama's nominee for secretary of state and it's also putting more pressure on New York's Governor David Paterson to name her successor to who should fill Clinton's Senate seat.
Well joining me this morning with his thoughts, former New York City Mayor, Rudy Giuliani. Thanks for being with us this morning. RUDY GIULIANI, FMR. MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Thank you.
CHETRY: Mr. Mayor, so, you wrote your CNN commentary, "A good senator must perform two tasks simultaneously. Advocate for the interest of his or her state while also helping shape the direction of the entire country."
GIULIANI: Right.
CHETRY: Explain that.
GIULIANI: Well, I mean, I'll give you an example. Senator Moynihan served for a long time and I overlapped with him when I was mayor and we had financial crises in the time I was mayor. Senator Moynihan came up with the following analysis. He did a thorough analysis with Harvard ultimately, the Kennedy School.
How much does New York State and City give the federal government and how much do we get back? Everybody thought New York was getting a lot of money back because of the poverty in some parts of New York, the welfare. It turns out New York City and New York state was giving the federal government back in those days, it's gone up, $17 billion, $18 billion more than it gets back.
New York City accounted for about $9 or $10 billion. We were sending $18 approximately billion more to Washington than in all of the programs that gave money back, we were getting back from the federal government. And it led to a very strong argument for re- dressing some of that imbalance. And then senators like D'Amato, Schumer, Clinton were very, very strong advocates for New York.
CHETRY: You're also naming some very strong personalities, to say the least.
GIULIANI: Well to the point, you need -
CHETRY: Right.
GIULIANI: To represent a state like New York, which is the financial capital of the world of the United States certainly, you need senators who understand the financial industry, how critical it is to New York, understand how important it is for us to have tourism and all of the things that that implies.
CHETRY: Right.
GIULIANI: It's the capital of publishing. It's the capital of broadcasting. A lot of interest -
CHETRY: I want to ask you about Caroline Kennedy, then. Because she has emerged really as a front-runner. She has had meetings as we've been able to confirm with Governor Paterson. He says he's impressed but nor necessarily sold yet. What do you think about Caroline Kennedy, someone who hasn't had a lot of experience in the political world -
GIULIANI: It's up to the governor's judgment really.
CHETRY: Right.
GIULIANI: Because the reality is he is going to be tested. He is going to run for election, because he hasn't been elected himself, pretty soon. So it's all going - the proof is going to be in the pudding. He is going to make a selection. That person better do a good job.
And right now, the governor needs two active, I hate to call them agents, but they are like agents of New York in Washington. He's got one in Schumer. You know, Chuck is on the other side, different philosophy than I have. But, boy, when he was senator, he took over for Al D'Amato and we didn't lose very much. I mean he picked right up and did the same things Al D'Amato was doing in terms of fighting for New York.
If Caroline Kennedy gets chosen and there's a lot of controversy maybe about her qualifications but she does a couple of really good things for New York, Governor Paterson will look good. If she gets chosen and she's got a heavy responsibility. I mean he is going to be accountable for it, so he gets to make the choice.
CHETRY: Which leads me to the question about you? Are you going to be running for governor in 2010?
GIULIANI: I don't know. It's too early. It really is. The governor has got a big job. He doesn't need a two-year election campaign.
CHETRY: Right.
GIULIANI: I think he should be given every opportunity to do the very best he can for the state and then we can see about it six months from now, eight months from now. We got a mayor's race coming up...
CHETRY: Of course.
GIULIANI: ... and a big one. You know, I'm a big supporter of Mike Bloomberg, but this is a democratic city and Mike is going to have a battle.
CHETRY: And one question about Caroline Kennedy quickly before we leave. Are these times, these unprecedented financial difficulties call for a Senator that has more experience both financially and politically than say if things were not as tough as they are right now?
GIULIANI: I think the governor has got to go on his instinct. He knows what he needs in Washington. If he thinks it's Caroline Kennedy with a group of experiences she has and contacts and relation with the president, that's fine. If he thinks it's an Andrew Cuomo who has got, you know, government experience, Washington, New York, very experience. Then he goes with Andre Cuomo and he gets tested very quickly on it. So I think a lot is riding on the forms. He'll the make the best judgment he can. CHETRY: All right. Always good to talk with you, Mr. Giuliani. Mr. Mayor, thanks.
GIULIANI: Thank you.
CHETRY: John.
ROBERTS: That governor's race sure didn't sound like a no! Not a no.
CHETRY: It's too early.
ROBERTS: Not a no.
