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American Morning
Obama Threatens to Veto Resolution on Bailout Money; Osama bin Laden Calls for Jihad on New Released Audiotape; Prosecutors to Repeal Judge's Ruling on Bernie Madoff Case; Senators Grill Hillary Clinton on Husband's Foundation; Runaway Pilot Finally Caught
Aired January 14, 2009 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, we're just coming up on a minute before the top of the hour. We have breaking news this morning. Osama bin Laden believed to be speaking out about the war in Gaza. The Al-Qaeda leader is calling for jihad, or holy war, against Israel.
In a just released audio tape, he also speaks about the end of President Bush's and the beginning of President-elect Barack Obama's. It could be the first time we've heard from bin Laden since May of last year.
Also breaking right now, new rocket fire in northern Israel. Israeli police saying that three rockets landed near the town of Curiat Shimona, which Hezbollah bombarded during the 2006 war. Meanwhile, Israeli war planes and artillery pounded Gaza for a 19th day.
The fugitive pilot accused of faking his own death. Well, this morning, he's live and under arrest. US Marshals in Florida say they found Marcus Schrenker at a campsite. (INAUDIBLE) He had actually slit one of his wrists, they say, it appeared. Schrenker is a financial manager and is under investigation for potential securities fraud. He disappeared Sunday after his plane went down in Florida near a neighborhood. Authorities say that he bailed out of that plane and put it on autopilot before the crash.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, back now to our breaking news. Osama bin Laden speaking out about the war Gaza. The message in a just released audio tape believed to be from the Al Qaeda leader calls for a jihad, or holy war, against Israel to them to stop its military operations in Gaza.
It also takes Arab governments to task for sitting on the sidelines instead of helping to "liberate Palestine."
Let's bring in our CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen. And, Peter, we heard from Ayman al-Zawahri (ph) on this topic just a little while ago. A surprise to you to be hearing from Osama bin Laden himself on it?
VOICE OF PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, we haven't heard from him for nine months, John. You know, we were expecting to hear from him during the run-up to the presidential election as we had four years ago in the previous American presidential election and we heard nothing. This is quite a long period for him not to have said anything, and I think the reason that you can expect that while that's the case but one potential reason is our bureau in Pakistan's count, there have been 30 hellfire missile strikes into the tribal areas in Pakistan in the last year, compare that to 2007 when there were only four.
Obviously, those hellfire missile strikes put pressure on al- Qaeda. They killed a number of key leaders in the last several months. In fact, President Bush referenced those strikes in his interview last night with Larry King two al-Qaeda leaders were killed on January 1st.
So those strikes have certainly put a fair amount of pressure on al-Qaeda, and that's one of the reasons I think, John, that we haven't heard from bin Laden for such a long time.
ROBERTS: So it raises the question, Peter, is he in a position where all he can do is issue these audiotape statements? We don't know how long or the chain of cust -- how long it took for this to get out of the chain of custody that took to get it out but is he relegated simply to making these statements or do you believe that he could, through technology, still be in an operational capacity?
BERGEN: I don't think he's in an operational capacity, John, but these tapes are, you know, this tape is being coveted by every news organization in the world as we speak.
So you don't really need to get on the phone and call people. You can put out general messages, you know, inciting people to violence and this is the way it happens. So, you know, he puts out all strategic guidance to al-Qaeda, to the Jihadi network through these audiotapes and videotapes.
Sometimes we've seen him make very specific calls for attacks on particular places. For instance, he called for attacks on Spain and there were attacks in Madrid in 2004.
He called for a response to the Danish cartoons of the prophet Muhammad and there was an attack by al-Qaeda on the Danish embassy in Pakistan last year. And I can give you several other examples so that's the way that he kind of maintains operational control.
ROBERTS: All right. Well, we'll see if anything comes out of this audiotape. Peter Bergen on the phone for us from New Orleans this morning. Peter, thanks so much.
And just last night, President Bush sat down with our Larry King as Peter mentioned and Larry asked Mr. Bush about whether or not the U.S. would ever find Osama bin Laden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Are we ever, ever going to find bin Laden?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, of course, absolutely.
KING: And you're confident based on?
BUSH: Because we got a lot of people looking for him, a lot of assets out there, and he can't run forever. Just like the people who allegedly were involved in the East African bombings, a couple of them, you know, were brought to justice just recently.
KING: Did we ever come -- did we ever come close?
BUSH: I don't know. I can't answer that.
KING: You don't know or you --
BUSH: I really don't know, no. I'm not trying to hide anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And just ahead on the "Most News in the Morning," we're going to be talking with a panel of security experts about the challenge that Barack Obama faces, keeping America safe. It's part of our ongoing series on the top five issues facing the incoming president.
CHETRY: And there are just six days until there's a new president of the United States and already Barack Obama is threatening fellow Democrats with a veto.
President Bush's first veto came during his second term in office with a Republican Congress. The dispute is over your money, the second half of the $700 billion bailout. Obama wants it released, but many senators are saying they want more details about how Obama is going to spend it. One Democratic senator said instead of transparency he's getting a lot of "mumbo jumbo."
For more on this we're joined by Suzanne Malveaux live from the White House this morning. And, Suzanne, so the president-elect threatening a veto for a resolution from a democratic-controlled Congress. So what is going on?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Barack Obama really realizes that he needs those Democrats to get on his side. He has set a very ambitious agenda behind closed doors with the senators. I talked to some of them from yesterday who say that he is really making the sales pitch saying there's a sense of urgency, that he needs everything in the tool kit when he first starts to really take a look at the economy and part of that is he believes that the $350 billion is going to be useful.
So what is he doing? He is trying to use some of the rapport, the trust that he's built with fellow lawmakers to persuade them here to come on board. He actually really needs their support, but he could be in a very difficult and awkward position of vetoing if necessary. He does not want to do that, and what is happening here is people are asking for some written commitments. Tell us where this money is going to go. How are you going to be held accountable? How is this going to be different than the Bush administration and Secretary Paulson?
Obama seems to be cooperating in that sense that he will give some written commitments that he will follow through and answering some of those questions and being held accountable. At least that is what he's trying to convince lawmakers now, Kiran.
CHETRY: Also out this morning, the news that the president-elect once in office will end the military's 15-year "Don't ask, don't tell policy." What can you tell us about that? I mean, as we famously know, this is something that tripped up President Clinton in the early days when he first took office.
MALVEAUX: And the Obama team is going to make sure that they're not too ambitious about this in rolling this out in say the first day or the first week, that kind of thing. But yes, it was on Friday that Robert Gibbs, the spokesman for President-elect Obama said on the transition Web site in answering a question from somebody from Michigan whether or not he was going to repeal this policy.
And he said, well, you know, you rarely hear a politician give a one-word answer but in one word, yes. So we heard from Robert Gibbs again this morning reiterating that yes, Barack Obama will in fact repeal that policy, the "Don't ask, don't tell policy."
We heard over the campaign Barack Obama talking about how he didn't agree with it, that gays should be able to serve openly in the military. But Robert Gibbs also cautioning today this morning that look, the top priority is going to be jump-starting the economy. This is something that Obama will follow through with repealing this policy, but don't expect it to be the first thing on his agenda, Kiran.
CHETRY: Suzanne Malveaux in Washington for us. Thanks.
ROBERTS: She once called Barack Obama irresponsible and naive. That was back when he was a candidate. Now Senator Hillary Clinton is promising to bring smart power back to the State Department under her new boss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), SECRETARY OF STATE NOMINEE: I assure you that if I am confirmed, the State Department will be firing on all cylinders to provide forward-thinking, sustained diplomacy in every part of the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Well her confirmation hearings looked like the expected shoo-in, until the questions came about Bill Clinton. Jim Acosta joins us live from Washington this morning. And there were some pointed questions about her husband. Did she put all of the concerns to rest, do you think, Jim? JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think so, John. And those Republicans on Capitol Hill, they love to talk about Bill Clinton, don't they? But, you know, much of yesterday was about this departure from the Bush administration that Hillary Clinton says will be a force of the Obama administration.
And after a lot of hand-wringing in Washington over whether the Obama administration would be more hawkish than expected, Hillary Clinton signaled there will be a break from Bush foreign policy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), SECRETARY OF STATE NOMINEE: Well, Mr. President -- president-elect -- chairman.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I'll take that.
CLINTON: It was a Freudian slip.
The president-elect --
KERRY: We're both subject to those.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Proving there is life after a failed presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton made the case for a new way forward in the post-Bush world.
CLINTON: The president-elect and I believe that foreign policy must be based on a marriage of principles and pragmatism, not rigid ideology.
ACOSTA: As a soon-to-be former president who just this week quarreled with the notion that America's moral standing in the world is damaged.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It may be damaged among some of the elite.
CLINTON: American leadership has been wanting but is still wanted. We must use what has been called smart power.
ACOSTA: Obama/Clinton's smart power includes a possible future dialogue with Iran, engaged diplomacy on Gaza, a determined withdrawal from Iraq and redeployment to U.S./NATO operations in Afghanistan.
JAMES RUBIN, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: What you are really seeing was the end of an era of unilateralism in the United States and the beginning of an era of American diplomacy.
ACOSTA: And an era of diplomacy for Clinton. This was not candidate Clinton who once issued a dire warning to Iran should it ever attack Israel.
CLINTON: We would be able to totally obliterate them.
ACOSTA: Sitting in front of her daughter, Clinton was pressed on her husband's private foundation, a foundation that fights AIDS and malaria but also raises money from foreign countries and multinational corporations.
CLINTON: My husband doesn't take a salary. He has no financial interest in any of this. I don't take a salary. I have no financial interest.
SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R), INDIANA: The core of the problem is that foreign governments and entities may perceive the Clinton foundation as a means to gain favor with the secretary of state.
ACOSTA: As Mr. Bush was handing out his final presidential medals of freedom to his allies in the war in Iraq, Vice President- elect Joe Biden was discussing troop withdrawals in Iraq. The Obama transition team was working on its plans to close Guantanamo, and Hillary Clinton was gearing up to take on a troubled world.
CLINTON: America cannot solve the most pressing problems on our own, and the world cannot solve them without America.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: Hillary Clinton is expected to be confirmed by the full Senate as early as inauguration day. At her hearing, she spent a fair bit of time quoting Thomas Jefferson, the country's first secretary of state, who as it later turns out, John, became president.
ROBERTS: To tell you, our Zain Verjee is going to have an interesting job following her around the world in the first 100 days of the presidency, just to see how much American policy in the global market changes.
Jim Acosta this morning, Jim, thanks so much.
ACOSTA: You bet.
CHETRY: And breaking news this morning. Osama bin Laden releasing a new audiotape, calling for jihad and also apparently with some words for Barack Obama. In fact, we're going to be speaking to the former head of the homeland security, also a member of the 9/11 Commission, as we continue to follow this breaking news this morning, just ahead.
It's 10 and a half minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Thirteen and a half minutes after the hour. Christine Romans "Minding Your Business." He played the roulette with a lot of people's money and if he were playing monopoly he might be getting that, go directly to jail card.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, except the judge in this case of Bernie Madoff. We're talking about the alleged Ponzi schemer. He allowed him to stay in his home, his $7 million penthouse mansion and await trial, await the next segment of his court hearing. Now, Bernard Madoff heads to court today. Prosecutors want to repeal the judge's ruling that allows him to stay home in the penthouse, in the East 64th Street Penthouse, while all these other people are penniless.
Prosecutors and victims just outraged that a judge allowed him to stay home even after prosecutors say he tried to send $1 million worth of fine jewelry and diamonds and trinkets to his family and friends, even after he was accused of having $173 million of checks of his clients' money in his desk drawer, ready to be mailed out to friends and families and other people.
So he will be going to court today. Prosecutors trying to repeal that decision. They want him in jail.
ROBERTS: They really want him in jail.
ROMANS: They really do. And the victims, I've talked to a lot of victims and they are furious that he is home.
CHETRY: And the last time the judge said you didn't prove your case. Like I understand that everybody's angry and I understand all the sentiment involved but you haven't proved your case that he's a flight risk.
ROMANS: That's right. And now, prosecutors in the government are going to go back and they're going to try to make this case now to a different judge and they're going to try to get this thing. They want him in jail. They want him in jail, and they're hearing I'm sure from the victims who are furious about this.
We do know, however, when you look at the way the court documents are worded, they keep talking about disposition. It's likely that they're talking about some sort of a plea deal that his attorneys and the government are talking about.
So there is this fine dance. There's this dance between do we want him in jail? Is it easier to do some sort of plea deal and find the money if he's home? Is it better if he's in jail? But it looks like prosecutors are going to go try and get him in jail.
ROBERTS: It would be easier for them to find the money if they were in his home.
ROMANS: It would be easier for them to find the money if they had...
ROBERTS: Look into the drawers.
ROMANS: ... if the government had read all of the warnings about him over the past ten years and said hey, this guy might be stealing money.
ROBERTS: Why would they want to do that? ROMANS: Yes, yes. So, now in hindsight they're going to try to go find the money.
ROBERTS: Thanks, Christine.
CHETRY: They've been invited to twirl their umbrellas at next week's inaugural parade. But now the famous Mobile, Alabama, Azalea Trail Maids are at the center of controversy.
The head of Alabama's NAACP thinks that the dresses represent a shameful time in slavery saying, "These are not just regular costumes. These are the costumes that remind someone of the plantation in "Gone With the Wind." And he's putting the Obama team at a tough spot. No comment though from the president-elect's staff. The Mobile County commissioner is demanding an apology and standing by the squad.
We are following breaking news this morning. The fugitive mystery pilot now found that a campground in the panhandle of Florida. Well, we're live with the latest on this very bizarre story at 16 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: We're continuing to follow breaking news at this hour. Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden apparently releasing an audio message calling for Muslims to launch a jihad or holy war to stop the Israeli offensive in Gaza. The message was posted on a radical Islamist Web site. It's the first time that the world has heard from bin Laden since last May. We'll keep you updated on this breaking news throughout the morning.
CHETRY: We're also following other breaking news today. Police confirming the pilot accused of faking his own death was found alive at a campsite. Police immediately taking Marcus Schrenker to a nearby hospital in Tallahassee, Florida. That's where we find our Brooke Baldwin this morning.
And even here, Brooke, on the front page of our local tabloid "The New York Post," it just says "Caught!" The one word headline today talking about Marcus Schrenker. Tell us more about what exactly happened.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kiran, how about this story? It's really I think got the attention of a lot of people out there.
I can tell you that Marcus Schrenker is here, as you said at Tallahassee Memorial Hospital. He's listed in fair condition and the U.S. marshals found him in that tent at that rural campsite just last night. He was suffering from self-inflicted -- a self-inflicted gash to his wrists. So, Kiran, it appears his three-day run from the law is over.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN (voice-over): A pilot whose personal and financial world was in tatters allegedly performed his own bailout above the skies of Alabama. The stunt, which police say was supposed to fake his death, came to an end at a Florida campsite.
SUPERVISORY DEPUTY JOHN BEEMAN, U.S. MARSHALL: We believe that the plane crash was just part of his plan to make it look like that he had died in the crash.
BALDWIN: Police say Marcus Schrenker's story started Sunday, during a flight from Indiana to Florida, when he radioed that his plane was in trouble and that he was bleeding. After being trailed by military jets, his single engine plane crashed in Florida. But Schrenker, nowhere to be found. Police believe Schrenker parachuted to the ground just outside of Birmingham, Alabama.
JIM ATTERHOLT, INDIANA DEPT. OF INSURANCE: If these allegations are true he is clearly a crudball, because anyone that would do this to their friends and neighbors and be so brash about it, deserves the full penalty that's coming to them.
BALDWIN: After telling police in Alabama he was involved in a canoeing accident, authorities say Schrenker quickly disappeared, using a motorcycle he apparently stashed the day before. According to Indiana's secretary of state, Schrenker, a financial manager, was the subject of a securities investigation in Indiana.
He's accused of stealing potentially millions of dollars from investors. One former investor Schrenker says he felt he got the runaround by the missing pilot.
MIKE KINNEY, SCHRENKER INVESTOR: I've never in my life seen anybody that could tell the dishonest untruths that he told over and over again and expect you to believe it.
BALDWIN: A former attorney for Schrenker isn't buying it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But there is absolutely nothing that I ever observed in him that would make me think that any of these allegations are true.
BALDWIN: Court filings show Schrenker's wife recently filed for divorce. A friend of Marcus Schrenker says he received a disturbing e-mail from someone who identified himself as Schrenker shortly after the news broke of the plane crash.
TOM BRITT, FRIEND OF MISSING PILOT: He said he panicked. He blacked out. He was disoriented when he landed. So he was -- he was trying to explain to me his side of the story.
He also wanted to talk about his securities, the fraud allegations, that the warrant was served on, and basically that he had no wrongdoing in that. And then at the end of the e-mail the most disturbing part was he said, "By the time you read this, I'll be gone," and I interpreted that as a suicide note.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BALDWIN: U.S. marshals told CNN this morning they were able to track Schrenker down on that campsite all thanks to a tip. And, Kiran, we should be learning a little bit more because the marshals will be holding a news conference around 10:00 a.m. Eastern time today.
CHETRY: All right. Thanks so much, Brooke Baldwin for us this morning.
ROBERTS: It's 23 minutes after the hour. We are looking at the top five challenges facing Barack Obama all this week. Ahead our panel of experts will discuss number three, keeping America safe, especially in light of bin Laden's new audiotape that we're talking about this morning.
Change is in the air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just makes everybody more nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Signs Washington is putting the hostility on hold and getting along? What's behind the friendly atmosphere, and could it be risky business for Team Obama? You're watching the "Most News in the Morning."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Twenty-six minutes after the hour. Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning."
All this week we're looking at the men and women, as well as the moments in history that helped rewrite America's attitude toward race and truly paved the road to the White House.
CNN's John Zarrella has been sharing the stories with us and reports today from the University of Mississippi.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Don Cole got his doctorate from the University of Mississippi. He's now a professor at the same school that threw him out 39 years ago.
DR. DON COLE, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF MISSISSIPPI: When I first saw this institution compared with what it is today, then I've just seen a momentous change take place.
ZARRELLA: Momentous may even be an understatement. In 1970, Cole was arrested and then expelled from Ole Miss after protesting the school's treatment of black students. The atmosphere was still racially charged, eight years after James Meredith, backed by federal forces was allowed to enroll. Today, the healing continues. DR. SUSAN GLISSON, HEAD, WILLIAM WINTER INSTITUTE FOR RACIAL RECONCILIATION: I think that Mississippi has arguably come farther than any other state in the country because it has -- it has had to be able to honestly engage with its past.
ZARRELLA: Susan Glisson heads the William Winter Institute for Racial Reconciliation at Ole Miss. The nonpartisan organization helps resolve community problems centered around race in Mississippi, still like walking on eggshells.
GLISSON: They're afraid they're going to make it worse so they think it's easier just to not do anything.
ZARRELLA: Glisson believes the Obama presidency is allowing people to finally be honest about their prejudices. On and off campus, the institute relies on student interns to build bridges.
MEGAN MCRANEY, STUDENT: Living your lives in separate spheres they don't - they don't ever last unless you have a grasp together. And I think that's (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The problems of social integration on this campus are not going to go away because Obama is the president, so we still have to continue to work that we're doing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not easy to get students to talk about race especially in Mississippi.
ZARRELLA: But not impossible, either. For Don Cole, the Obama presidency is proof.
COLE: And it's the beginning that can provide a great leap forward if we all take advantage of it.
ZARRELLA: While it won't be easy, there is a belief here that a new Ole Miss can be a voice for reconciliation louder than it was for segregation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA: Glisson and Cole say issues like health care, civil rights all have to be addressed before a reconciliation can work. You can't simply say you're sorry -- John.
ROBERTS: John Zarrella for us this morning in Oxford, Mississippi. John, thanks so much.
It's coming up now on 29 minutes after the hour and here are this morning's top stories.
Authorities have captured Marcus Schrenker alive at a campsite in Florida. He is the pilot accused of securities fraud and parachuting out of his plane and allowing it to crash. The aim seemed to be to fake his own death. Officers say that Schrenker had cuts in his wrists in an apparent suicide attempt. President Bush's top official overseeing the trials for Guantanamo Bay detainees reportedly says the U.S. military tortured a Saudi national at the detainment camp. Speaking to "The Washington Post," Susan Crawford says Mohamed al-Kahtani (ph) was subjected to sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity in cold temperatures leaving him in a "life-threatening condition."
Even with Americans cutting back on flying in 2008, the Department of Transportation received more than 9,200 complaints about airlines through the end of October. "USA Today" reports that small airlines like Spirit, AirTran and JetBlue all saw complaints at seven- year highs last year. The paper reports that Delta had the most of any large carrier and Southwest Airlines the fewest.
And the breaking news that we're following this morning, a new audio message released from Osama bin Laden calling for a jihad to end Israel's attacks in Gaza. He also reportedly has words for Barack Obama and George Bush.
We're still working on the translation. We'll fill you in on the details just as soon as we get them. Bin Laden last put out a message in May of 2008. That coincided with Israel's 60th anniversary.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And all this week we're looking at the top five challenges facing Barack Obama. Today, number three, keeping America safe. In fact yesterday President Bush called it the biggest challenge facing America. And this comes just as Osama Bin Laden puts out a new message calling for jihad this very morning.
I'm joined now by our expert panel Tim Roemer, a former member of the 9/11 commission, as well as CNN national security contributor and former Homeland Security adviser to President Bush, Fran Townsend, and also terrorism analyst Ken Robinson, who has more than two decades of military and intelligence experience. Thanks to all of you for being with us this morning.
And Fran, let me start with you. Because it's very interesting yesterday, Larry King talked to President Bush, as well as Mrs. Bush and he asked how close we had come to finding Bin Laden. He said you know what "to tell you the truth, I don't know." You were there and you were getting these types of briefings and intel. Do you know how close we came during the great eight years?
FRAN TOWNSEND, FMR. BUSH HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: Well, it's hard to really assess how close we'd come. We would get some intelligence.
CHETRY: Are you hearing yourself in your ear?
TOWNSEND: No.
CHETRY: OK. You stopped talking half way through, sorry. Go ahead.
TOWNSEND: You know, it's hard to make a real judgment and an assessment about how close you come. You get intelligence, you react to it quickly but in the end if he's still out there, it's difficult. I think what the president was probably trying to say is it's difficult for us to know if we came particularly close. And after all he's out there and remains a top priority for U.S. government officials and will in the next administration.
CHETRY: Right. And Tim, what does it mean or what is the significance of these audio tapes or these messages that we hear from time to time from Osama Bin Laden?
TIM ROEMER, FMR. 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Well, Kiran, good morning. I tend to think this is important, yet we over hype it. First of all, it's important because he's out there. He hasn't been caught. It's a reminder of President-elect Obama's inheritance of some of the difficult problems out there that he has to confront.
Secondly, it's Obama's problem to better define our values against Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda is trying to be relevant with this tape. They seek competition with Hamas, Hezbollah, the ongoing battle between Israel and the Palestinians. He's trying to be relevant at this point, and lastly, I think it's interesting, and important, because this reminds us of what Bin Laden said right after 9/11.
He said it wasn't 19 Arab armies or 19 Arab states that attacked the United States. It was 19 post graduate students. It reminds us how much the world has changed, and how many different threats are out there today.
CHETRY: And Ken, do you think that seven years after 9/11 Al Qaeda is our biggest threat?
KEN ROBINSON, TERRORISM ANALYST: I think one of the biggest threats we have in terms of facing terrorism today is actually the decision-making that we will make as a country after an event occurs. As a country, we cannot destroy terrorism.
It's going to be part of the human condition. We can mitigate it and we can prepare for it, and we can try to set conditions so that they cannot recruit or retain recruitment, and that has to do with our policies and our behavior.
But certainly, they get a choice. They have free will, and they'll pick a time and a place when they think we're vulnerable to make a statement. The more important thing is what do we do when that happens and how do we make sure we don't change the way we live based on them attacking us.
CHETRY: Fran, how significant is it that we have not seen a domestic attack since 9/11? Is it - I guess how much goes into that and how much will we continue in the new administration to make sure that doesn't happen again?
TOWNSEND: Kiran, I think there should be no question in anybody's mind that, keeping America safe and protecting Americans against the next attack will be a top priority for any administration, the current one and the incoming one. The question is how do you go about that? I mean, I do believe Al Qaeda continues to be the greatest threat to us, and that threat emanating out of the tribal areas. We have to work with our European allies. We see illegal immigration from North Africa into western Europe. Based on our immigration relationship, you know, we have visa waiver program that allows pretty free travel from western Europe.
And so we have to work with our western European allies to make sure that we know who's coming into this country, and we continue to have that focus, but I expect that will continue to be a big priority for the next administration.
CHETRY: And you know, Tim, also, just the difference, if you will, between having to prevent an attack once people have already been radicalized and decide they want to come in here and attack us, versus helping to do anything to tamp down that type of sentiment worldwide, I think that, you know, both of those things are equal challenges.
ROEMER: Well, in football season with the Super Bowl coming up, Kiran, it's we need a good offense and we need a very good defense. As Fran just mentioned, the threats now radiate from Al Qaeda out of the Pakistan tribal border area. We know it's on Great Britain's doorstep when people can get radicalized with one trip into Pakistan from Great Britain and blow themselves up in the plot in 2005, which was Great Britain's 9/11 plot, when 56 people died there.
When it's in Great Britain's back yard, it's on our doorstep and we need to address that. We need to restore our privacy and civil rights in this country and make sure we have the right balance there.
CHETRY: All right.
ROEMER: We need to make sure we have layered defenses on our homeland, and work with our local and state officials to make sure we're sharing and communicating effectively, with some of the best resources we have throughout our 50 states.
CHETRY: And Tim, I want to hear from Ken about this. Because you and Fran mentioned this border area. You know from an operational standpoint, Ken, this is Pakistan that we're talking about, our ally but also a sovereign nation. So how do you tackle that?
ROBINSON: Well, one of the biggest challenges there and I just came back from Afghanistan, is the fact that there really is no border. You know, it's a mountainous area. It's free-flowing back and forth. The Pakistani military is incapable of policing those tribal areas.
The last government, President Musharraf and the current government have tried to make deals with the tribal elders in those areas. No deal has really held. No government or no empire has ever subjugated that area, all the way back to Alexander the Great.
And the issue is really going to be taking the oxygen away from what flames burned with them, and that issue is going to be the issue of governance in Afghanistan and governance in Pakistan, because right now, there's two perceived illegitimate governments trying to hold down their inter-areas, and they can't project power outside of their capital cities.
CHETRY: All right. Well we're going to take a quick break and we're going to continue with the panel talking about some other domestic vulnerabilities, including hackers, our whole entire country runs on electronic system. What about cyber terror? We're going to talk more about that coming back. 37 minutes after the hour.
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CHETRY: Welcome back to the most news in the morning, we're looking at the five challenges, the top five facing Barack Obama. Today at number three, we're talking about keeping America safe. Our panel of experts is back with us to discuss more. We were talking earlier about the new tape from Osama Bin Laden that's out this morning, but the traditional terrorist type of attack is not the only concern.
The U.S. is also vulnerable to cyber attacks. And Fran, you talked about this. You talked about how potential terrorist, hackers could really inject a virus and shut down our whole entire system as we know it.
TOWNSEND: That's right. Kiran, the current administration has issued sort of policy and procedures, priorities, if you will, about how to attack this problem of the cyber vulnerability. There are really three things that we worry about. We worry about the bringing down the system, as you mentioned. We worry about the theft of data, and then third and perhaps most insidious, is you worry about someone coming in and manipulating your data.
If you will imagine in the financial system, you go to your ATM and you take money out. Imagine if someone was able to get in there and change the ones and zeros in your account and what a loss of confidence that would cause in the financial system. Well, the U.S. military relies on you know the internet to move troops and logistics and materials. And so imagine if someone was able to either able to change that information or steal that information, the vulnerability that it would cause.
So this is going to continue to be a tremendous priority, not only for the outgoing administration to the end but for the incoming administration and I think you can expect they're going to have to spend lots of money to close that vulnerability.
CHETRY: Well, in fact, President-elect Obama on the campaign trail talked about appointing a cyber czar. And Ken, interesting, you said we're due for a cyber Pearl Harbor. What do you mean by that and how complicated is it to deal with?
ROBINSON: Well, it's precisely what Fran just mentioned. 80 percent of the critical infrastructure in this country is not controlled by the United States government. It's in the public domain. It's in the private sector and it's interrelated with the world. So it can happen in a viral way, where there can be a computer network attack that does denial of service and starts to collapse internet service providers, and then very soon just like a power outage, you have a series of cascading events and it can be very hard financially.
We witnessed this occur by the Russians when they invaded Georgia recently. The first thing that happened is they were getting ready to invade was they shut down the entire country by conducting denial of service operations, and taking over computers. It foreshadows what could happen with a peer competitor to the United States.
CHETRY: And Tim, tell us a little bit about how complicated this is to deal with. What do you do when the enemy or you know the hacker actually knows more about it, and knows more about the inner workings of doing this than the government goes.
ROEMER: Well, we know the Chinese and the Russians are getting very aggressive on this front. When you talk to our outgoing administration, now the republican administration going out of office, and our intelligence community, Mike Chertoff at Homeland Security, they say this is probably one of the biggest challenges for America and where they need to do the most work.
There is the protecting and defending part of this - our interests, our security, our defense operations. But there's also the privacy issues making sure that people don't get access to social security numbers and health care information that's so vital to people.
CHETRY: Well, that's another issue -
ROEMER: President-elect Obama has talked about a couple of things. I know you're interested in this, Kiran. He's talked about better federal leadership on these efforts, and appointing somebody to wake up every morning going after this issue. He's talked about working more with the private sector and IT efforts and R&D efforts, research and development efforts and he has also talked about how do we protect the grid, the electrical grid and the infrastructure grid may be in this stimulus package.
We should invest some money in looking at what kinds of long-term projects we can engage in here for investing in America's security.
CHETRY: Well you guys have certainly laid out a laundry list of challenges. And we know there are a lot ahead. Frances Townsend, Ken Robinson and Tim Roemer, great to talk to all of you this morning. Thanks.
TOWNSEND: Thanks, Kiran.
ROEMER: Thank you.
CHETRY: And you can track Obama's top five on-line, go to cnn.com/am and our panel will be back again coming up in the next hour. you can submit your own questions for them, the address is cnn.com/am. ROBERTS: Well, breaking this news, Osama Bin Laden releases a new audiotape calling for jihad, condemning Israel and he also apparently has some words for Barack Obama. We're working on the translation as we speak. We'll have more details on than part of the message shortly.
Plus our housing survival guide. One out of every six American homeowners owes more on their home than it's worth. Their underwater so to speak. So what should you do? Gerri Willis has some survival tips for struggling homeowners. It's 45 minutes now after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Bush 41 talked about a kinder, gentler nation. His son said he was a compassionate conservative. Now Barack Obama is trying to be Mr. Nice guy. So what's with all of the niceties?
AMERICAN MORNING's Carol Costello joins us now live from Washington. Harry Truman suggested if you want a friend in Washington, get a dog. But it would seem that Barack Obama has got a lot of friends in Washington, at least for the time being.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's friends with everyone, isn't he? And that's not all. It seems that everyone around us is becoming friendlier. I mean, haven't you noticed more strangers saying hi or holding the door open for you. If you haven't noticed you're not paying attention. We have entered a new era. The era of nice.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): Maybe it started with Barack Obama's campaign rhetoric.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: At this defining moment, change has come to America.
COSTELLO: Or maybe America was heading that way anyway, whatever. We are changing. There are hints we're becoming, well, nice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The economy is so bad for so many people, that the entire country feels humbled. Even if you haven't lost your job, you know two or three people who have, and it just makes everybody more nice.
COSTELLO: You can see it on TV, "American Idol" long known for eviscerating contestants.
SIMON COWELL, JUDGE, "AMERICAN IDOL": What the bloody hell was that?
COSTELLO: Says it's now going to cut down on the put-downs. America is in love with "Slumdog Millionaire." A movie totally devoid of cynicism. It dominated the Golden Globes.
TOM CRUISE, ACTOR: "Slumdog Millionaire."
COSTELLO: And in real life, in the nation's capital? Politicians are positively positive.
PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: One message that I have and I think we all share is that we want to you succeed. Whether we're democrat or republican, we care deeply about this country.
OBAMA: This is an extraordinary gathering. Thank you, Mr. President, for hosting us.
COSTELLO: That's not all. He even bailed criticism levied by the man liberals call Darth Vader didn't get a rise out of Obama.
OBAMA: I think that was pretty good advice, which is I should know what's going on before we make judgments and that we shouldn't be making judgments on the basis of incomplete information or campaign rhetoric.
COSTELLO: "Saturday Night Live" is having a field day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I take my kids to school, I lose my temper, it's my only rule, I keep it cool.
COSTELLO: But while it's cool to make your enemies frenemies, Drew Westen, author of "The Political Brain" said it's also important for Obama to pin blame where it belongs.
DREW WESTEN, AUTHOR "THE POLITICAL BRAIN": The problem really is, and this is a real dilemma for how he's going to talk with the American people, is that people need to know where the problem came from in order to understand why they're going to have to sacrifice to fix it.
COSTELLO: Westen and others say, don't worry, this whole era of nice is temporary, because, you know, sometimes mean works.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: But let's revel for a moment, because we are still in the era of nice. John, do you find yourself being nicer to people these days?
ROBERTS: Hey, I am - I'm just like a fountain of niceness, you know, Carol?
COSTELLO: You did.
ROBERTS: When I see people like you, it just kind of comes out of me. But don't worry, it's not really contagious, because New York is still a place where people say, hey, don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. So, you know, we haven't gotten quite so nice.
COSTELLO: Well, actually that phrase is nice when New Yorkers utter it. It's nice for New Yorkers. But it's true what you say there is still plenty of mean out there. You know while "Slumdog Millionaire" is getting fab buzz, the number one movie in the country is "Gran Torino," a movie about a crotchety mean racist. Although he does become a better man by the end of the movie.
And Barack Obama , well, you remember during the campaign he was criticized for being too nice and then he quickly toughened up when John McCain's attacks started to quickly sway the election -
ROBERTS: Yes.
COSTELLO: So he can be not mean but something close to that.
ROBERTS: Well, you know, it's all about redemption in the end, isn't it? And you know, to be honest, there are a lot of us recovering jerks out there. So, we're recovering, we're fine. Carol, thanks so much. It's 52 minutes after the hour.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS (voice-over): A call for jihad. A new audio message believed to be Osama Bin Laden, what experts analyzed in the tape have learned.
Plus, it could be the largest crowd in D.C. ever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'd like for as many people to come as they want to come.
ROBERTS: Inauguration survival guide. The port-o-potty scare. How to witness history without a horror story. You're watching the most news in the morning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Breaking news this morning, Osama Bin Laden believed to be speaking out about the war between Israel and Gaza. The Al Qaeda leader is calling for jihad or holy war against Israel in a just- released audiotape. He also speaks about the end of President Bush's term and the beginning of President-elect Barack Obama's. This could be the first time that we've heard from Bin Laden since May of last year. Our experts are going over the tape right now, and we'll hear from them in just a few minutes' time.
CHETRY: Well, "Call of duty four" was the top-selling video game in 2007. It's the first game in the franchise set in modern times with today's weapon. Well now the military is using the fascination with virtual war to its advantage. Jason Carroll joins us now with more on this story. Hey, Jason.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, here's a question for you. Could Xbox help the Army attract more recruits? Well, they're waiting for the answer at a place called the Army Experience Center. We went to Philadelphia to see what this new facility is all about.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CARROLL (voice-over): Not far from this Banana Republic and this Victoria's Secret, there's the sound of gunfire. No wonder, there's a war going on. The Army is waging a battle to attract new recruits, hoping the popularity of video games is part of their winning strategy.
SPENCER ELMORE, NEW ARMY RECRUIT: You come in to play games and, like, your eye starts to wonder oh what the Army does have to offer and maybe it's something for me.
CARROLL: This is the Army Experience Center in the Franklin Mills Mall in suburban Philadelphia. It opened about four months ago. Here anyone can play with an Xbox. There are 19 of them, or shoot the enemy from a full-scale Humvee or a Black Hawk helicopter.
The simulators were enough to convince Brett Verbin. He signed up to train to be a Black Hawk mechanic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the regular recruiting stations, you don't get to see all this kind of stuff.
CARROLL: What do you make of the idea of using the video games here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think it's just a ploy to bring them in. Hey, it's something we love, and then we're like, and then you get curious.
CARROLL: It's the first and only Army recruitment facility of its kind, costing $13 million, money the Army spent to boost recruitment.
The Army recruited 80,517 active personnel in its last fiscal year, just slightly ahead of its goal. But with two real wars being waged, more personnel are needed. Traditionally during bad economic times, the Army does see more recruits, but the idea of using video games as a recruiting tool doesn't appeal to every recruit.
AMANDA WILLIAMS, COLLEGE GRADUATE: It puts an unrealistic edge to it as well, like where you're going to go into it thinking it's just a video game when it's not.
CARROLL: You want to make it clear that when people come in, you know, what they're experiencing and seeing here is a simulation, is very different when you're actually going into the armed services.
MAJOR LARRY DILLARD, U.S. ARMY: A lot of the stuff that we have here serves to pique someone's interests. In the Army Experience Center, you are not going to get a pushy, hard sell. We really just want people to understand the Army.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: The Army Experience Center is a two-year experiment. It replaced five smaller recruiting stations in the Philadelphia area. So, far they've signed up 37 soldiers, and 5 reservists, about the same number as a smaller recruiting station they ended up replacing.
CHETRY: That's fascinating for sure. Do they have plans to do this in other places besides Philadelphia?
CARROLL: Well, you know, again, two-year experiment, the reason why they ended up doing it in Philadelphia, is because they have a tougher time recruiting in urban areas as opposed to rural areas. If it works, look for more of these start to popping up.
CHETRY: Jason Carroll for us, thanks.
CARROLL: All right.
