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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Heroism on the Hudson; Obama's Tough Sell; Border Betrayal
Aired January 16, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf. Tonight tributes from all over the world to the flight crew, the rescuers who saved more than 150 people aboard US Airways flight 1549. We'll have exclusive reports. We'll be talking with some of the first rescue personnel on the scene.
And tonight the president-elect tells Americans the economy is likely to worsen in the weeks ahead. Is the president-elect talking down the economy?
And tonight another day of brutal job losses across the country. Three top political analysts will join us to talk about what the new Obama administration must do to restore confidence, all of that, all the day's news and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT; news, debate and opinion for Friday, January 16th. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. Federal investigators tonight are trying to determine exactly what happened to the US Airways jetliner that successfully crash-landed in the Hudson River in New York. Officials say both engines apparently broke away when the aircraft hit the water. All 150 passengers and five crew members aboard survived without serious injury.
In an exclusive interview with LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, the father of co-pilot Jeff Skiles (ph) said the flight crew had very little time to react after a flock of birds hit the plane. Deborah Feyerick reports on these latest developments.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Strong currents and freezing temperatures made it impossible for divers to retrieve the voice and flight data recorders, the two black boxes in US Airways flight 1549, a day after it crash-landed in the frigid Hudson River.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are still enclosed in the tail of the plane. We just can't get to them because of the problems of the water and the current and the temperatures and the limited dive time we have.
FEYERICK: Divers attempting to examine the engines instead discovered they were missing, having broken off shortly after the crash or after the plane came to rest. While investigators aren't sure how far the engines may have drifted, they seemed confident they'd be recovered.
KITTY HIGGINS, NAT'L TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: We've got the New York Police Department working with the Corps of Engineers and using side scan sonar, and they're out there now trying to locate the engines. We believe that they started at the point where the plane came down and are moving down the river.
FEYERICK: Investigators had hoped to pull the Airbus out of the water Friday but were hampered by icy weather.
HIGGINS: There's a lot of damage that's not visible at this point. We'll want to do that while the plane is on the barge.
FEYERICK: NTSB investigators did interview flight crew members. The pilot and co-pilot scheduled to be debriefed Saturday. And while NTSB investigators would not speculate on the cause, eyewitnesses say they saw the left engine on fire about the same time the pilot radioed air traffic controllers the plane had hit two birds. Firefighters who entered the partially submerged Airbus shortly after it went down say they noticed a strong smell.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What really struck you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as you (INAUDIBLE) in the water you could smell fuel and stuff like that. When we got into the plane we were looking for people. We went in there. We went as far and deep as our necks, you know water up to our necks and it was basically (INAUDIBLE) flotation devices.
FEYERICK: A source familiar with the investigation tells CNN air traffic controllers appear to have alerted the pilot to birds several miles from the airport. The Port Authority, which runs LaGuardia, says wildlife agents monitor the airport 365 days a year, 24 hours a day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: Now, the pilot and co-pilot were given drug tests, which is protocol whenever there's a crash. Once the black boxes are retrieved they'll be sent to Washington, D.C. for data analysis. And as for those missing engines, well definitely not what investigators wanted since there's just so much forensic evidence that's located in those engines, so really a good day yesterday, couple of problems today.
DOBBS: They're confident they'll be able to locate those engines?
FEYERICK: Well that's what they're telling us, but boy that current is so strong.
DOBBS: Right.
FEYERICK: It's just unclear how far out they are.
DOBBS: Yeah, the Hudson River a very powerful current as it moves towards the Atlantic. The black boxes in the tail, any idea from the investigators as to when they'll be able to get those?
FEYERICK: They're not going to be able to get them until the plane is lifted onto a barge, and that's when they're going to be able to get them. It's just too cold. They don't want to risk the divers' lives going in, so once they get it out, could be probably tomorrow is what they're saying.
DOBBS: Well that's pretty quick.
FEYERICK: Yeah, not bad.
DOBBS: All right. Thank you very much Deborah Feyerick -- great job.
Well more survivors today talking about their ordeal as passengers on flight 1549. What happened aboard that aircraft and how they were rescued from the frigid waters of the Hudson River? Let's hear some of their remarkable stories.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were hitting the Hudson River with full impact and it went boom, and then we stopped. And then we looked out, and they said, you know like raise and so forth, but we all wanted to see what was going to happen, whether we were going to die or live.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably the most amazing moment of my life. Honestly, there was a lady and a child, and she was trying to climb over the seats because everybody was like -- it's like rats. I mean you know for the most part everybody was well-behaved...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and everybody was organized but she got blocked off and I grabbed her and her child and walked them to the exit and from there Josh I believe got them onto the raft. But I'll never get over it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we got outside and in the cold water, and I mean the water was cold. I mean within seconds my legs were numb standing in the water. So I'm guessing it was you know 30, 40 degrees. It was ugly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fire and rescue up in New York, if you're going to go down in an incident, you want to be in New York. I promise you. Those people took care of us. The ferryboat drivers, the fire and rescue, they were on top of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well later here we'll be talking with some of the folks who were rescuing those people. We'll be talking live with three of the police and fire department rescuers who helped save the airliner's passengers and crew.
Well, tributes pouring in today for the pilot and co-pilot of flight 1549. From President Bush to New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg to members of their families and all over the country. The wife of pilot Chesley Sullenberger said her husband is usually very controlled and very professional. The father of co-pilot Jeff Skiles (ph) said his son simply did his duty. Lisa Sylvester has our exclusive report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg plans to give Chesley Sullenberger, his co-pilot and the flight attendants a key to the city of New York for their incredible bravery while passengers credited them for saving their lives.
BRAD WENTZELL, PASSENGER: This pilot and if this guy doesn't get the recognition he needs...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, unbelievable.
WENTZELL: ... is the reason my daughter, my 2 1/2-year-old has a dad and my wife still has a husband.
SYLVESTER: The plane's captain who goes by the nickname "Sully" has more than 40 years of flying experience. He graduated from the Air Force Academy in 1973, then became a fighter pilot and has been with US Airways since 1980. He's not only a pilot but also helps train other pilots and owns a safety consulting company on the side. His wife had this to say about her husband, the hero.
LORRIE SULLENBERGER, WIFE OF PILOT: This is the "Sully" I know. This is -- I always knew this is how he would react, so to me, this is not something unusual. It's the man I know to be the consummate professional and so it's not a surprise.
SYLVESTER: Sitting next to "Sully" in the cockpit was co-pilot Jeffrey Skiles. Skiles got his pilot's license at 16 when most teens are trying to get their driver's license. He's worked at US Airways for almost 26 years. Jeffrey Skiles' brother called him conscientious and caring and his father shared part of his conversation with CNN.
VOICE OF JAMES SKILES, FATHER OF CO-PILOT: Physically I think he's doing OK, although he got awfully cold there. But I think mentally he's, you know anything like this happens, any traumatic event I think like everybody else, you're going to constantly be thinking about it over and over in your mind.
SYLVESTER: James Skiles says the flight attendants should also receive recognition for keeping passengers calm when it could have been utter chaos.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And the pilots and flight attendants made sure the passengers were off safely. Captain Sully in fact was the last person to leave the plane. Captain Sully, by the way, is not only a pilot but he's also quite the scholar. He has a Bachelor of Science in psychology from the Air Force Academy, Masters of Science in industrial psychology and another Masters in public administration. Lou.
DOBBS: Quite an impressive fellow. He and co-pilot Skiles again just an amazing performance for which we're all grateful. Lisa Sylvester, thank you very much.
Still ahead here, President-elect Obama is trying to sell his economic plan by saying this recession could worsen. Is the president-elect using candor and straightforwardness or is it the politics of fear?
Also another day of sweeping job losses to tell you about, we'll be reporting on the new Obama administration's efforts to restore confidence in the markets and the economy.
And a district attorney says he will take a fresh look at the JonBenet Ramsey murder case 13 years later. We'll tell you why here next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President-elect Obama today declared his economic stimulus plan will create or save as many as four million jobs. Now that's double the figure the president-elect first cited at the end of last year. Meanwhile, the president-elect has overcome Senate opposition to give financial institutions another $350 billion of taxpayer money.
Americans, however, remain strongly opposed to these programs. A new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll shows 61 percent of Americans say the government should not spend the remaining bailout money. Eighty-six percent of Americans say the financial bailout has not worked. Dana Bash has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even Barack Obama's most ardent Senate supporters tell CNN voting to give him 350 billion more for a bailout that constituents described was wrenching.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's easy to vote against this. You know that when you go home if you vote to help Obama to get this money, there's not going to be a parade waiting for you.
BASH: But Amy Klobuchar is one of many senators the president- elect called to make a personal appeal and promised that this time taxpayer money will be better spent.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: He's talking to a lot of us about how important it is for him to have the tools that he needs to tackle this financial crisis. He's also acknowledged the horrible mistakes that were made by the past administration.
BASH: Senators demanded written assurances that Obama would address those mistakes, and got letters promising more transparency and accountability on how he will use the bailout funds. Democratic senators say it was team Obama's full court press that scored a crucial victory on such a controversial issue. Debbie Stabenow opposed the original bailout and told CNN earlier this week she was torn about spending billions more.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well it's not enough just to have someone that you trust.
BASH: But she got an Obama call, too, and changed her mind.
SEN. DEBBIE STABENOW (D), MICHIGAN: Now people understand and are willing to trust a new administration with a different set of values and priorities that are going to focus on getting people back to work and helping people stay in their homes.
BASH: But the Obama power of persuasion did not work with all Democrats.
SEN. BLANCHE LINCOLN (D), ARKANSAS: Nobody can tell us where the money is, where it's gone, what it's done.
BASH: Blanche Lincoln voted against releasing anymore taxpayer dollars for the bailout, despite a lobbying call from Mr. Obama.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd be more than happy to pass that along to her.
BASH: She was more influenced by the flood of calls from outraged constituents demanding she oppose using more taxpayer dollars to bail out Wall Street.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now most Republican senators who voted for the $700 billion bailout in the fall oppose releasing the second half of that money. Even John McCain who ran on this in his presidential campaign, Republicans, Lou, are still smarting from their losses and being hit on this issue pretty hard in the fall. As for Democrats, they are just hoping that this tough vote is a distant memory two years from now when the next elections will come.
DOBBS: Well the only thing that would perhaps make that possible would be for a very quick turnaround in this economy. And it is clear that these -- the CNN poll showing clearly that there is just overwhelming opposition to these bailouts.
BASH: No question about it. And I got to tell you talking to senator after senator, they didn't need the poll to tell them that. They were hearing it loud and clear from their constituents. You heard in that piece the phones were ringing off the hook not just in Blanche Lincoln's office, but across Capitol Hill and that is why this vote was so tough for all of these senators.
DOBBS: Dana, stay with us. We're bringing in two of our colleagues, as we like to do. From the White House, our senior White House correspondent Ed Henry and from Cleveland, Ohio our chief national correspondent John King who by the way interviewed the president-elect earlier today. John is also the host of the brand-new show, "STATE OF THE UNION". It debuts this Sunday at 9:00 a.m. Eastern here on CNN. John, first, good luck with the new broadcast...
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.
DOBBS: I know you'll have a splendid success. Today you talked with the president-elect about his plans for the economy. The impact of these massive amounts of money that the government is throwing at the markets and the economy, what did he have to say about it?
KING: Well it's quite interesting, Lou. On the one hand, he was very thankful for that Senate vote that gives him, the new administration the second installment of that $700 billion bailout plan. He also says he's confident he will get that $850 billion stimulus plan. He calls it a recovery plan through the Congress quite quickly, but already as you know, some in Wall Street are saying they might need more money.
Some in Congress are saying we might need even more stimulus. So I asked the president-elect would you spend even more money or will you draw a line somewhere? He didn't flatly rule out spending more, but he also made clear, Lou, that he believes and is very strong in the belief that at some point spending more money would do more harm than good.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: What we also have to recognize is, is that the deficit levels that I'm inheriting, over a trillion dollars coming out of last year, that that is unsustainable, at a certain point other countries stop buying our debt. At a certain point we'd end up having to raise interest rates and it would end up creating more economic chaos and potentially inflation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: He also in the interview, Lou, was very aware of the expectations on him. He says look, American should expect a very tough 2009. He believes the job creation will start and will be invigorated by this new stimulus plan. But he said Americans who have these high hopes for him while he's grateful for them, they need to understand 2009 probably still many, many more tough months ahead before he believes things ultimately will turn around. Lou.
DOBBS: John thanks. Ed, the president-elect talking down the economy today, saying things could get worse and implying that they will get worse before they get better. Saying the recession could linger for years if we do nothing. Is this about lowering expectations?
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Is it an effort at candor? What is the thinking here?
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well his aides would say that he's trying to be candid with the American people about the problems ahead, as he was in that interview with John King, but also clearly, he's trying to lower expectations and say, look, we're in a big fix here, and even if the stimulus plan passes, it's not going to work instantaneously because expectations obviously right now are pretty high that he's going to come in and magically save the day.
The fact of the matter is these problems run much deeper. As John correctly noted in his interview and asked the president-elect what about Social Security and Medicare? Add those on and the exploding entitlement costs, the president-elect wants to have a fiscal responsibility summit in February, but having a summit is one thing. Actually making the tough choices is a whole another. And I heard him in the interview say I'm going to spend a lot of political capital to deal with those entitlements.
Well where did we hear that? We heard that in 2005 from President Bush. He went after Social Security reform with the political capital from that reelection and he didn't get anywhere. It's a tough, tough task ahead, Lou.
DOBBS: Each of you has covered the White House. Dana Bash, I want to go to you if I may. We heard Bill Clinton, we heard George Bush say straightforwardly they were going to deal with the issue of entitlements. Certainly the Obama administration-to-be understands the challenge of what they're saying. What are their prospects for success?
BASH: Well, I mean I think it was very noteworthy that when you heard George Bush in his press conference -- in his farewell press conference admit finally that the idea that he had to go around the country and try to sell Social Security reform, his brand of it right after winning re-election in 2004 was one of his biggest mistakes and probably strategically errors politically in trying to deal with getting things accomplished.
And there's no question there is a long line of presidents who have tried to do this and really failed. There definitely is just by giving -- looking at this bailout vote here as an example, there's goodwill and there is a desire to do things here from members of Congress, but that is a big one.
DOBBS: John King, as you talked with the president-elect, he seemed very relaxed. He is obviously keenly aware of the challenges facing him. Is he confident as he appears to be, as best you can judge?
KING: Outwardly he is, Lou. I spent a good deal of time with him off camera before and after the interview and he seems very calm. No drama Obama they call him, but to fall on Dana's point and your key question about where is his political capital. How can he spend it? When he becomes president yes, he has an enormous amount of goodwill, but as you know, presidents rightly or wrongly are the pinata for economic anxiety in this country.
And when you want to sell something like entitlement reform, you're going to ask people to make sacrifices. And right now I had breakfast with six or seven Ohio residents this morning to ask them what they think of the new president. They don't trust where this bailout money is going. They're very skeptical about President Obama, even though they wish him well. And he doesn't have the trust in the country of government right now. It's not all about him. It's a legacy he inherits, but...
DOBBS: Right.
KING: ... you can't sell those sacrifices. You can't tell people to join him in that until he rebuilds trust in Washington and that's a steep hill.
DOBBS: And Ed, as you were covering this president from the White House, do you think there will be any difficulty in spinning out clearly and effectively the difference between candor and the rhetoric of fear?
HENRY: I was speaking to a senior Obama official yesterday who said that they are very concerned about the public not trusting what politicians in Washington are saying. They think that specifically this tripped up President Bush on the war in Iraq in particular. And so what they're planning to do is use the bully pulpit more and try to speak more openly and candidly with the American people.
In fact, they're telling me that in mid to late December -- February rather -- mid to late February they're planning to have a joint session of Congress for the president -- new president to lay out what he wants to do in the economy, the budget, et cetera. Use that bully pulpit. But obviously as you say there's a big trust gap out there right now. It's going to be very difficult, very difficult.
DOBBS: Ed, thank you very much. Dana, thank you very much. John King, thank you very much, and all the best of luck with your brand-new show, "STATE OF THE UNION," starting this Sunday 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time. Thank you all.
We'd like to know what you think about the bailout. Here's tonight's poll question. Do you believe that after putting $8 trillion into trying to solve the nation's economic crisis things should be getting better rather than worse? We'd just like to have a sense of what you think. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later in the broadcast.
More government bailout money today for the automobile industry, the government giving Chrysler Financial a loan of $1.5 billion, that's in addition to the $4 billion loan Chrysler received last month. Chrysler CEO Bob Nardelli says the idea that Chrysler's owner Cerberus Capital has infinite amount of money is simply not true. Well we thought it was true. Forgive us. Cerberus however is a private company. We have no way of knowing just how much money they do have or what's going on at Chrysler or what's happening to that government money.
And the federal government today giving Bank of America another $20 billion of bailout money, raising the banks total to $45 billion, including the money that they've already given to Merrill Lynch. The government also guaranteeing nearly $120 billion of Bank of America's loans after Bank of America said it might back out of that deal to take over Merrill Lynch.
Meanwhile, Citigroup, which has also received $45 billion of bailout money, today announced it's splitting into two separate businesses. Once the supermarket of finance, one of those businesses will focus on banking, the other on managing the bank's toxic assets. It's the old bad bank/good bank split, as I think we can safely call it. Citigroup has already cut 50,000 jobs and plans to cut another 20,000 employees from its payroll.
The job market this year is already off to a brutal start. Companies across the country are slashing jobs. More than 80,000 jobs have been cut in the first 16 days of this year. Circuit City today announcing it is closing all of its stores, liquidating the business, more than 30,000 jobs at stake.
ConocoPhillips will cut four percent of its work force, some 32,000 employees. And rental car company Hertz saying it will cut 4,000 jobs, cutting just about a third of its work force over the past two years. And Motorola will also cut 4,000 jobs. Chipmaker AMD, Pfizer, Barnes & Noble, Google, Autodesk all among the companies announcing job cuts this week.
Up next, new developments tonight in the case of JonBenet Ramsey, we'll tell you what the new Boulder, Colorado D.A. is saying about the 13-year-old case tonight.
And just days remain for the president to correct a gross miscarriage of justice. The imprisonment of former Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, we'll have that special report next. We're coming right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The new district attorney of Boulder, Colorado says he wants to take what he calls a fresh look at the investigation of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey. The new Boulder district attorney says he wants to determine whether the ongoing investigation should be transferred back to Boulder police. The body of the 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey was discovered in the basement of her family's Boulder home in 1996. The case is one of the country's most famous unsolved murders.
Turning now to the case of former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean, President Bush with just a few days remaining in office still has not pardoned the imprisoned former Border Patrol agents. The president apparently showing no interest in correcting what is a serious miscarriage of justice. Now lawmakers from both parties are increasing the pressure on the president. They want the lead prosecutor in this case to support calls for clemency and pardon. It's a story you'll only see here on LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, Casey Wian with our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lawmakers from California to Massachusetts want President Bush to free former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean. They're serving long prison terms in the 2005 nonfatal shooting of a fleeing drug smuggler who was an illegal alien.
REP. BRIAN BILBRAY (R), CALIFORNIA: Here is a mistake that President Bush can correct now.
REP. BILL DELAHUNT (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This particular punishment is excessive and disproportionate.
REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: They do not deserve to sit in a federal penitentiary for 11 and 12 years for defending our border.
REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R), TEXAS: For the sake of the moral of the Border Patrol and for the sake of justice, free Ramos and Compean.
WIAN: The congressmen also appealed to the leader of Ramos and Compean's prosecution, Texas U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton (ph).
REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R), CALIFORNIA: We're asking Johnny Sutton to look into his heart as a prosecutor and to advise the president of the United States to at the very least commute the sentences.
WIAN: They displayed statements by Sutton that the sentences given to the two men were too harsh.
REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R), TEXAS: If Johnny Sutton does not want his last act as U.S. attorney to be a lie, making all these quotes a lie he needs to push for commutation.
WIAN: Congressman Duncan Hunter is a Marine Corp veteran of three tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA: This to me, the Compean/Ramos case is the equivalent of a United States Marine being prosecuted on the word of a convicted terrorist who has tried to take American lives.
WIAN: Another lawmaker appealed to the president's faith.
REP. WALTER JONES (R), NORTH CAROLINA: For God's sakes get down on your knees and pray to God and ask him if you should commute these sentences because I believe God would tell you yes.
WIAN: Both U.S. senators from Texas and all but three of the state's 32 congressmen wrote President Bush this week requesting a commutation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The group includes Democrats Sylvester Reyes (ph), a former Border Patrol sector chief. But the only opinions that matter now are those of President Bush and his prosecutor, Johnny Sutton. Asked about the case in a recent interview, the president refused to discuss pardons. Johnny Sutton's office says he won't comment further. Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, all we can do is hope that the conscience and good judgment prevail here. Thank you very much. Casey Wian.
A new proposal tonight would make English the official language of the state of Texas. State Representative Leo Berman (ph) is proposing the legislation to make official documents English only and to stop publishing copies in Spanish. He says doing away with those Spanish copies would save Texas millions of dollars a year. Some documents would be exempt from that legislation, however, including voting ballots, school documents and paperwork concerning public health. Thirty states already have some form of official English as their law.
Time now for some of your thoughts -- C.G. in Illinois wrote in to say "Lou, thank you for your coverage of US Airways flight 1549. It was so refreshing to hear a report about someone who actually knows how to do their job with skill, professionalism, humility and I might add, great courage and great results."
Michael in New Jersey, "The next time that someone asks where all the heroes have gone, they need look no further the pilot and crew of U.S. Air flight 1549, yesterday. My hat is off to Captain Sullenberger and his crew."
Kevin in North Carolina, "This is a great story of survival and courage. I'm thankful for your reporting on this encouraging story and that in my opinion defines the spirit of America."
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts to loudobbs.com.
Up next here, the president-elect's nominee to be secretary of the Department of Treasury, Tim Geithner, appears to be on track for Senate confirmation despite some tax problems. Is Geithner getting a free pass from the U.S. Senate?
Also, a bailout for banks and financial institutions, it is skyrocketing, no transparency, no accountability. We'll be talking with three top political analysts, next.
And more stories of heroism on the Hudson River after that U.S. Airways jetliner successfully crash-landed in the Hudson River.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're going down in an incident, you want to be in New York, I promise you. Those people took care of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: You'll meet three of the first rescuers on the scene here next. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion. Here again, Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: First responders yesterday helped save the lives of everyone aboard flight 1549. Within minutes of the emergency landing in the Hudson River, rescue operations were underway. One hundred- fifty passengers, including at least one baby, and the crew all pulled from the frigid waters of the Hudson. Kitty Pilgrim now has more on this remarkable story of heroism on the Hudson.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A call to courage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a U.S. Airways airline jet in the water.
PILGRIM: Passengers themselves were the very first responders.
PANERO REED, FLIGHT 1549 SURVIVOR: We made sure as soon as we had the lady that was injured, we got her off first. Then there was an old woman that apparently was in a wheelchair, so we got her and then was a little girl and her mom and then the rest was, you know, just women first and then everybody else.
FRED BERRETTA, FLIGHT 1549 SURVIVOR: And I looked back and saw no one else and was really grateful that everyone was off the plane.
PILGRIM: The flight crew deserves great credit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a regular cadence, until we hit the water, they just continued to chant brace, brace, brace, so that nobody would sit up, and that I think helped prevent a lot of injuries on impact.
PILGRIM: Captain Lawler's team of firefighters had to go back into the plane for a final check for passengers.
We thought it was going to sink, there was fuel in the water, you know, we thought would ignite, but, you know, we had to go and check the plane. We thought there were people still in there.
PILGRIM: The coast guard team had to improvise to prevent hypothermia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We didn't have things onboard like blankets to, you know, keep them warm, so they just -- we all pulled off our own hats and gloves and gave them to them.
PILGRIM: With no indication of whether the plane would sink, NYPD divers were at risk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we looked at the situation at that point people needed help, and that was the job that need to be done.
PILGRIM: The ferries were within minutes. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When we had gotten there, we pretty much -- there was people everywhere. We just got to whatever we could get to first to start pulling people out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within 10 minutes we had our first victims on sight here in Port (INAUDIBLE), New Jersey.
PILGRIM: Most of those people today, grateful and modest about their courage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what we're trained to do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, some of the rescuers we spoke to today were still going on no sleep or a few hours sleep, yet they were graciously taking the time to talk to us. Some were headed back to their jobs this evening for what they call just another day's work -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
And we have three of those folks with us today, the heroes from yesterday's dramatic rescue who have been kind enough to give us some of their time despite being tired and working very hard through the evening and today.
New York firefighter, Tom Sullivan joins us. Sullivan, among the very first emergency responders on the scene. He and his fellow firefighters helped to pull about two dozen people to safety from the left wing of the aircraft.
Also joining me now, detectives Michael Delaney and Robert Rodriguez with the NYPD Air-Sea Rescue Unit. They jumped into those frigid waters of the Hudson to help those in distress, including two women suffering, as it turned out, from hypothermia.
Thank you all for being here. And our congratulations and thanks to you as always for all that you do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much.
DOBBS: And for these folks and the people in New York and New Jersey, quite often. Let me turn to you, Tom. What was your reaction? You were amongst the very first there. What did you find when you got there?
TOM SULLIVAN, FDNY: We were responding, and we heard it was a confirmed plane down, and initially you think of a small Cessna-type plane, but when we got up on the scene, I could see the tailfin of a U.S. Airways jet sticking out of the water. Oh my god, you know, it's unbelievable. And all the passengers mustered on the wings, the left and the right wing, organized, calm, very cool, cold and we just wanted to be careful approaching the plane. We thought we were going to run over people in the water, but there was really nobody in the water. They were all stationed on the wings.
DOBBS: That's amazing.
SULLIVAN: Yeah. The New York Waterway Ferryboats were picking the people off the ends of the wings, they were nosed in and people were stepping off, climbing up escape ladders onto the ferryboats.
DOBBS: The New York Waterways Ferry, I think, was the first boat to actually get there.
SULLIVAN: Their facility is right where the plane landed, and they had access right away.
DOBBS: And you have - you have been to a number of these emergency landings. This certainly was not what you expected?
SULLIVAN: No. Like I said, we expected a small plane. There's been some helicopters that have gone down in the East River the last few years, but to handle this -- this is a large airliner with this many people, it worked out well. I was amazed that no one was killed.
DOBBS: Well, and you're part of the reason that certainly everyone was rescued safely.
Michael Delaney, tell us about what happened when you got to the scene, what you and your partner were doing.
DET MICHAEL DELANEY, NYPD AIR-SEA RESCUE UNIT: When we arrived on the scene, we had seen -- there was a lot of ferryboats, there was a lot of boat traffic in the area. At that point, we were on the helicopter. We lowered the helicopter down to a hover. We saw someone that needed...
DOBBS: Let me interrupt. This is the helicopter, as Michael Delaney is describing what he and Robert Rodriguez were doing at that very moment. Excuse me, Michael.
DELANEY: The pilots did a great job of putting us into a position where we were out of way of the boat traffic. We pointed out one victim in the water, she was hanging off a makeshift-type net that off the front of one of the ferryboats. We had spotted her, we told the crew chief and pilots that's the person that we're going to in for. She seemed to be at the most distress at the time.
And at that point, they put us down to about 10, 15 feet off the water, and that's when we jumped into the water. We deployed in the water and headed straight for that victim, immediately.
DOBBS: And you were in full gear, correct?
ROBERT RODRIGUEZ, NYPD AIR-SEA RESCUE UNIT: Absolutely, yes, full scuba gear.
DOBBS: And the weather, cold yesterday, and the water colder than the air temperature. What was it around 30 degrees?
RODRIGUEZ: It's hovering around somewhere in the late 30s -- high 30s, I should say, to low 40s. DOBBS: OK, I was wondering because the reports were 32 degrees, I'm thinking, man, I've been in cold water, but nothing like that. What did you find as you approached the woman?
RODRIGUEZ: Well, our first focus is to get a bit of communication established between us, kind of a game plan. It comes down sometimes to hand signals and a tap on the shoulder, a point of a finger and he's the lead diver, he went out of the aircraft. As soon as he was safely in the water, I followed in the deployment of myself and we both started swimming in the direction of the victim.
DOBBS: And as you approached her, what was -- what happened? What was her reaction?
DELANEY: She was -- she was in a bit of a panic at the time. I had urged her to let go of the net. The only way for us to help her out of the water at that time was for her to take her off and pull her to safety or try to pull her to the back of that ferryboat or to pull her to another ferryboat. I had told her to let go of the net. At first she was a little bit reluctant, but she ended up letting go. I told her to wrap her arms around me.
At that point Detective Rodriguez and I swam over to another ferryboat that had an eye on us. They had a ladder down to the water with a small platform water level. We swam the woman over to the platform and the crew of the ferryboat and me and Robert lifted her up with their assistance, she went right up onto the platform.
DOBBS: Let me ask you, how long could these folks have survived in this water, had they not been able to be aboard the wings of this plane that was luckily floating? This woman, as you described the rescue, in that water, that cold. I mean, that's...
RODRIGUEZ: You know, if there's going to be a victim in the water, this is probably the worst time of year for them to be in the water without any type of thermal protection. These people were literally in just regular clothes, obviously, they were just taking a flight on an airline and wearing a sweater, maybe some jeans, some sneakers.
DOBBS: You and your colleagues and the fire department, about two dozen people you rescued. What was their reaction when you get them to safety?
SULLIVAN: Lou, they were so calm, it was like they'd done it before. We pulled up and they were all assembled on the left wing. And I said, "Everybody stay where you're at. Ladies first." And there was a couple of women right by the bow of our boat. We took one woman, I pointed to her, I said, "We're going to take you first," we got her on and then got a few more ladies.
And then there was a single file line of people and just kept taking them until we were full, our boat was sunken down in the water and the fellow driving the boat, John Rizzo, did a great job. He couldn't even see out of the windshield. He had to stick his head out the side to drive back to 42nd Street to get them off. But, we took about 20 people.
DOBBS: That is remarkable work, gentlemen. Thank you very much. What a -- these are not stories that often have happy endings, as we all know, and what a wonderful ending to this story. Thanks in part to your great efforts. Thank you very much, Tom, we appreciate it. Detective Delaney, Detective Rodriguez, thank you, gentlemen.
DELANEY: Thank you very much.
DOBBS: Still ahead here, is Treasury secretary nominee Tim Geithner receiving a free pass from the Senate? President-elect Obama says Geithner's tax problems are just a little tiny problems, an embarrassment, but not much more. Others say, they're a lot more than that.
And, she was the yearly favorite, but a new poll shows Caroline Kennedy slipping behind in the, It guess it's a race, to get Governor David Paterson to appoint somebody to that vacant seat of the new secretary of state, Hillary Clinton. We'll have those stories and a lot more, just ahead. Stay with us. Three of my favorite political analysts join us, here next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, joining me now, three of the best political analysts in the country, CNN contributors, all. Republican strategist, former White House political director, chairman of the Mike Huckabee presidential campaign, Ed Rollins.
Good to have you here, Ed.
Columnist of the "New York Daily New," host "Morning Show" WWRL, Errol Louis -- Errol.
And Democratic strategist, Robert Zimmerman, Democratic national committeeman.
Robert, good to have you here.
It looks like, what, with an extra $350 billion there's going to be a little discussion about what happens with money. This is another victory for a president-elect. You don't often have legislative victories for president-elects. The expectations, Robert, are soaring, here. How much of a problem are we going to have with soaring expectations?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, the problem is going to be how this president spends the money. The Democratic Congress wrote a bill, and to your credit, you pointed out the pitfalls and gave them fair warning. But it was a piece of legislation so poorly drafted, even Chris Dodd acknowledged it, they had to stiffen the bill. Maybe their backbones still, but this...
DOBBS: And Chris Dodd is still mad at me for making those observations. ZIMMERMAN: But the point is, he recognizes the legislation had to change. But, here's what's significant. This bill passed with 46 Democrats and with six Republicans, and we talked last Friday about why the president's rhetoric was so intense. Obviously, he was trying to galvanize this Congress and this strategy worked.
DOBBS: When he Robert uses the word "intense," he's referring to my questions as to whether or not this is the rhetoric of fear, rather than rhetoric of hope. I'm curious to see whether or not this continues. Ed Henry, our White House correspondent, pointing out something that is concerning the staff of the president-elect right now because they have to have a balance. What are your thoughts?
ERROL LOUIS, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: Well, I think the rhetoric of fear, maybe not fear that the economy will collapse if they don't do anything, but rather fear they will have severe political consequences. I was looking at today's numbers from Gallup, the approval ratings for the president-elect are in the stratosphere. I mean, he's -- you're talking about 78 percent, in some cases over 80 percent.
DOBBS: On issues, 60 percent on approval.
LOUIS: On how he's handled the transition, on his cabinet appointments, even though there have been a couple of bumps in the road, so I wouldn't...
DOBBS: I don't want to bring you down, here.
LOUIS: I wouldn't get in the way of a train like that, if I were a Republican at this point.
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Sometimes -- listen, Republicans are not relevant. I've said it over and over again, Errol, and you keep wanting to go there. It's now a Democrat game. And the other part of this is the Congress is still very unpopular. You look at any -- so they have to perform, and they have to spend the public's money in a way that clearly makes the economy move forward again. And I don't think anybody can guarantee that at this point in time.
DOBBS: Yeah, it's an interesting issue, because the Republicans are, I mean, talk about being marginalized, they have been marginalized to the point that it's absurd in some respects, but of their making.
But, the Democratic Party, we're talking about $825 billion as the Democratic leadership of Congress and this president-elect are, $350 billion in this bailout money additional. A $1.2 trillion budget deficit and the president-elect is talking about a fiscal responsibility summit in February? Is this colossal irony?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, it's also ultimately the reality of the situation, which is there's no question everyone recognizes the economic climate we're going to have to spend our way out this have crisis. And of course, the consequences of it could be inflation down the road that could be very dramatic and very severe.
DOBBS: I'm not an economist, but the idea we have to spend our way out of this crisis, that we have to create more debt to get out of a crisis created by debt...
(CROSSTALK)
Excuse me, let me just finish the sentence -- you're so aggressive tonight, Robert. A crisis created by debt and by spending, this is at best counter intuitive.
ROLLINS: But, the problem here is you can't create a whole bunch of public jobs, because there's no long lasting, there. I mean, Bill Clinton created 100,000 policemen, thought it would be solve crime. Two years later those cop's jobs were eliminated because the local communities couldn't pay it.
DOBBS: And the money went away.
ROLLINS: So, I think the key thing here is you can't substitute public spending only for capitalism. Capitalism may be on the ropes, but you've got to do something to create private jobs in addition to the public jobs, otherwise we're going to have a very soft economy.
(CROSSTALK)
LOUIS: The assumption is that will happen, this is intended to sort of bridge the gap and not let too much of the economy...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: We're going to be right back. We're ask Errol Louis if that's a bridge to nowhere or something better. Our panel will be right back with us, but first a reminder to join me on the radio Monday through Fridays for the LOU DOBBS SHOW. Monday's guests include Senator Jim DeMint, Republican South Carolina, conservative leading is the charge against some of this spending. And we invite you to go to loudobbsradio.com to get your local listings for the LOU DOBBS SHOW on the radio. A reminder I'm now on WOR here in New York City 2:00 to 4:00 each Monday through Friday.
We'll be right back with more from our panel.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We're back with our panel. Ed Rollins, Errol Louis, Rob Zimmerman. All of this talk about money to build a bridge to what. We've got $8 trillion thrown at this economic crisis, we don't have any instinct from any one of our leaders -- the Treasury secretary, the Federal Reserve, the Congress of the United States or this president as to what that money has accomplished and what it was expected to accomplish.
The American people in the CNN Opinion Research Poll saying 86 percent say they know this isn't working, they're opposed to bailouts. This puts a real limit on the horizons for this administration if real results are not achieved with this money.
LOUIS: Well, I think that's why you saw the president doing something I had actually recommended in a column. I'd love to think he just read it and took my advice.
DOBBS: I'm sure he did, Errol.
LOUIS: Just go out on the road, stop in a factory, show people what the money's going to buy, that this isn't just a blank check written to a bunch of bankers to be used in some invisible non- accountable way, but that this is going to bring...
(CROSSTALK)
LOUIS: Well, that the recovery portion, the bailout, you know, that's one thing, but going forward, the big bill he's trying to move is his first piece of major legislation.
ZIMMERMAN: That was the first bailout, though, because the funds were used to go -- the funds were used for banks to buy other successful banks or banks were hoarding the money.
(CROSSTALK)
They weren't fact addressing the foreclosure crisis. People didn't see the results and that's the challenge, here.
DOBBS: Hank Paulson, Treasury Secretary Paulson basically used the money to bail out his buddies on Wall Street, and don't let anybody kid you.
ROLLINS: There's also this great myth, going back to the Great Depression, that all of the spend FDR did basically moved the economy back quickly. It was five, six years and it was the war, it was the buildup to the war and it was the war that got us out. We've had our war and at the end of the day, you know, we better have something that stimulates this economy...
DOBBS: Think about this. With all of the money being spent on the war in Iraq, war in Afghanistan, that is simulative spending, by any definition. The $8 trillion thrown at this crisis and we have yet to hear an official say this is what it's accomplished, what it's achieved. In fact, we heard the president-elect today say things may get worse before they gets better. That's an extraordinary position to be in.
Let me do one thing very quickly and just point out the latest poll, the Marist Poll shows Andrew Cuomo with a six percent favorable rating, Caroline Kennedy 46. You're saying that Paterson, I believe, Cuomo 40, 25 for Kennedy, there among registered voters. David Paterson still going to appoint her?
LOUIS: I don't think he will on the basis of polls. If he were, Cuomo...
DOBBS: No politician is above polls. Never do that. (CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: Unless you were running in the same year, you're not.
DOBBS: We're going to have to leave it with that. Thank you very much, Robert, Errol, thank you. Ed, thank you.
Up next, tonight's poll results, some more of your thoughts. Stay with us, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, tonight's poll results, 74 percent of you say that after putting $8 trillion into trying to solve this nation's economic crisis, you think that perhaps things should get better rather than worse. I happen to agree with you.
And time for one last e-mail. Eddie in Minnesota wrote to say: "Lou, the only way the country can come out of this mess, is for all members of the House and Senate to go to the restroom and flush the Democrat and Republican title down the toilet. Wash their hands, and come out as Americans."
That would be quite a trip. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com. Thanks for being with us tonight. For all of us here, we thank you for watching, have a great weekend. Good night from New York. CAMPBELL BROWN: NO BIAS, NO BULL starts right now.
