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Nancy Grace
Family Requests Private Caylee Funeral Be Held in Mother`s Jail
Aired January 27, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a shocker. Thank you, Nancy. NANCY GRACE starts right now.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed Caylee, manner of death homicide, the little girl`s remains completely skeletonized. This after a utility meter reader stumbles on a garbage bag containing a tiny human skull, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping the child`s mouth, then finishing off by placing a child`s heart-shaped sticker over the duct tape, little Caylee`s tiny skeleton double-bagged like she`s trash.
Bombshell. As we go to air, we learn in the last moments, tot mom Casey Anthony is actually trying to orchestrate an unprecedented secret jailhouse funeral for little Caylee behind bars. And tonight, in a stunning twist, reports an emergency motion has been filed to throw the prosecutors off the tot mom murder case. That`s right, the defense wants to throw the prosecutors off the case!
And the attorney for tot mom brother, Lee Anthony, announces all signals indicate brother Lee will face criminal charges. But what charges? And tonight, despite orders from a judge, tot mom planning a no-show for court this week.
And grandfather George Anthony still under tight security in a hospital psychiatric unit after sending repeated text messages he no longer wants to live, that he wants to go to Caylee in heaven, grandfather George`s problems much more serious than first believed, plans in the works for an extended stay in a local hospital psych ward.
And after marketing a Caylee doll and appearing right here last night, the doll`s so-called mastermind drops plans to sell the toy after public outcry over him making money off Caylee`s murder.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S UNCLE: We love you. And you know, please think of anything that we can help find Caylee because as soon as we can help find her, it`s going to be, you know, open and shut to get you out of there, OK, darling?
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Absolutely. I know.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The attorney for brother Lee Anthony says he is concerned Lee could be facing evidence tampering or obstruction of justice charges. The attorney claims that because Lee Anthony has not received a subpoena to testify, it could mean the state intends to charge him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s possible that criminal charges could be filed if, in fact, the state feels that Lee Anthony has either misled law enforcement officials or tampered with evidence in any way.
CASEY ANTHONY: Tell Lee that I love him and that I miss him. I know that he`s been running himself ragged, and I feel so bad that Lee got sick out of all of this. But I understand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also today, tot mom Casey Anthony is trying to get out of showing up to court. The defense team filed a motion seeking to allow the tot mom to waive her appearance in court. We are awaiting a ruling from the judge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, after traveling to their luxury home in the Bahamas, tragedy strikes. Hollywood superstar John Travolta`s young son suffers an unexpected death. The Travoltas still reeling over the boy`s sudden death when a $25 million extortion plot comes to light. That`s right, blackmail. Accordingly, a Bahamian senator and the Travolta ambulance driver both allegedly charged. Tonight, the details.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) most of that would be an interrogation with him. He`d have a whole list of questions that he`d ask me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As reports continue to swirl that the tot mom`s brother, Lee Anthony, could be charged, his own attorney allegedly says he fears Lee may face evidence tampering or obstruction of justice charges. Attorney Thomas Luca says that because the state has not issued a subpoena to Lee Anthony, it could signify that the state may be considering charging him.
CASEY ANTHONY: God, I want to see Lee, but if they`re throwing his stuff out on the air, I don`t know.
CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDMOTHER: No, it`s only the phone calls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Luca believes that some of Lee Anthony`s actions could be interpreted by police as hindering the investigation, but says his client was only trying to help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Anthony did not throw anything out. He has been fully cooperating with police, including giving a DNA sample.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If charges do come down, his new home could be a jail cell. Meanwhile, tot mom Casey Anthony is attempting to get out of appearing before the judge this week. The defense has filed a motion asking the judge to allow Anthony to waive her right to appear.
CASEY ANTHONY: One of the main reasons that I chose Dad is because he won`t sit there and keeping asking me the same questions 500 times over, like you and Lee have done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. As we go to air, tot mom Casey Anthony -- is she trying to orchestrate an unprecedented secret jailhouse funeral for little Caylee? This while the attorney for Lee Anthony announces all signals are indicating he will face criminal charges. And topping it all off tonight, there are reports an emergency motion has been filed to throw prosecutors off the tot mom murder case.
Straight out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. First of all, tell me about a so-called secret funeral behind bars for little Caylee?
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Apparently, the family`s attorney says he`s trying to work with the jail to allow arrangements for something like this. The jail says that no request has been made and that it`s highly unlikely (SIC) that Casey Anthony would be treated as every other inmate in the jail. She`s under protective custody and they`re not going to bend the rules for her. So that`s what we know about that.
GRACE: I`m not quite sure how would that work. Everyone, we`re taking your calls live.
Out to Gloria Allred, Ray Giudice, Carmen St. George. Gloria Allred, explain to me a secret funeral behind bars for little Caylee?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Nancy, I don`t think that she`s going to receive any special treatment, any different treatment, any better treatment than anyone else, and I think that`s highly unlikely. She may, as a PR attempt, try to have some sort of service. Or maybe truly she has to grieve for her little baby. But I don`t think she`s going to get it.
GRACE: Out to Raymond Giudice, defense attorney out of Atlanta. Let me get this straight, Ray. The state says she murdered her daughter -- not an accident, murder one, intentional homicide...
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They`ve indicted her, right.
GRACE: ... that she bound the child`s mouth with duct tape, double- bagged her like trash and threw her away. Now she wants to say bye-bye in a funeral behind bars. Thoughts?
GIUDICE: Not going to happen. I totally agree with Ms. Allred. However, the defense team may be trying to show how much she cares and how much she wants to weep and grieve over her missing child`s death. It`s a PR ploy.
GRACE: Carmen St. George, if that is true, I see no reason why the jury shouldn`t hear about it.
CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the jurors or potential jurors might hear about it from media coverage, Nancy, but...
GRACE: No, I mean in court, Carmen, where it counts.
ST. GEORGE: Well, I don`t think that`s going to come out in court. I think this is an...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: A PR stunt off your daughter`s funeral? A PR stunt?
ST. GEORGE: You can qualify it as that now, if that`s what you`re saying, but she might say, you know, I wanted to grieve for my daughter and I wanted to have a funeral. It`s going to be ultimately up to the warden. I doubt seriously she`d be given the opportunity do this because people are going to say, basically, she`s charged with killing her daughter, she now should not get the benefit of having a burial, having a funeral service.
GRACE: Leonard Padilla, you have been with the family. You`ve been in their home. You`ve had extensive conversations with the tot mom, Casey Anthony. What is this stunt by Casey Anthony`s defense to try to have a jailhouse funeral for little Caylee?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, you know I`m not going to even blame Casey for it. The whole thing about having a service in the jail started with discussions, and it was even discussed in my office here sometime back that they could potentially have a service right in the jail. There`s only three relatives outside right now. Obviously, if they get arrested for tampering or something, they could all be in there at the same time.
But we started discussing it, and then it was on some of the chat rooms that they were talking about it at the time, too. And so I can`t blame Casey for it. I think it just started on the outside and worked its way to where somebody -- an attorney picked up the ball and ran with it.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Mike, you and I have both handled plenty of homicide cases. A private good-bye for the woman, the mother the state has accused of killing the little girl, duct taping her mouth, carrying her around in the trunk dead for days, and now she wants the court, the jail to believe she wants to say a proper good-bye? Maybe she should have done that when she was stuffing her in the trunk.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, maybe she should have done that back a long time ago and told the truth, but she has not said one thing that`s truthful to law enforcement. What are they going do? Everybody going to gather around one little telephone and say a couple prayers? It`s not going to happen, Nancy. It`s just total BS!
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! Anybody that wants to break out in prayer, I believe now would be the time do it for the tot mom and for George Anthony, who is suffering terribly tonight in a psych ward over all of this. So hey, don`t drag prayer into this. That`s not what this request is about.
To Lauren Howard, psychotherapist. Lauren, what do you make of it?
LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It is not -- does not -- not track that she could have horrendously murdered -- we don`t know -- her child and also mourn the loss of her child. Whether or not she should or would get special privilege -- ridiculous. Not a question. But we`re not the judge and jury. We don`t decide because we believe she`s guilty or because the state`s accused her of being guilty that she`s not allowed to care. She`s allowed to care.
GRACE: Everybody, we`ll be right back, 30 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Amanda in Virginia. Hi, Amanda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good. The question that I have is, with George being an ex-policeman and him knowing everything that he knows, when he went to pick Casey`s car up at the impound lot and he said that it smelled like decomposition three feet away, why did he not then call the police?
GRACE: You know, interesting question. Let`s think back to that time.
To Natisha Lance, our producer, standing by there at the Anthony home. Natisha, let`s put it in rewind. Remember that, when the family went to claim the car, it had been sitting there for some time?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy, it had been sitting there for some time. They went to go pick it up. George Anthony said he was hesitant. He went back and forth. He ended up looking in the trunk. He was relieved that Casey nor Caylee were in the trunk of the car. And it was Cindy, actually, who later on ended up calling police.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her story has touched the entire country, and now a local man in Jacksonville is selling a doll named after little Caylee Anthony, called the "Caylee Sunshine" doll. The 18-inch toy also sings the song "My Little Sunshine" when you push her stomach, the song Caylee Anthony was heard singing in a home video.
Critics might call it morbid or even say he`s profiting off a murdered little girl. But he says that`s not the case at all. In fact, Jaime Salcedo, the man behind it, tells us he plans on donating profits from the doll to a national missing and exploited children`s organization.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just when I think I`ve seen it all, from serial killer action figures to serial killer calendars, now you`ve got some sleazebucket company that`s trying to use the likeness of a poor murdered girl on a doll, trying to make a profit of it. This is about the lowest I`ve seen anybody ever, ever stoop to. And the fact that this company is claiming that they`re going to give, like, a whopping $3 of this $30 doll that they`re trying to sell to some reputable organization for victims means this is just an afterthought on their part.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: After appearing here on the show last night, there was such a public outcry against the sale of a Caylee doll, it has now been pulled of the marketing plans.
We are taking your calls live. I want to go back out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Kathi, number one, we`ve got a secret jailhouse funeral in the works for the tot mom to say good-bye to little Caylee. The defense attorney for brother Lee Anthony is now saying he`s been signaled he will be criminally charged. Also, George Anthony still behind bars -- excuse me, still on a psych ward tonight, apparently an extended stay plan. And in the middle of all this, we find out as we go to air tonight -- I`ve got it right here -- an emergency motion to throw the prosecutors off the case. Are you familiar with this?
BELICH: I am. It was filed just after 4:30 today. Actually, Jose Baez mentions a report that we did, that my station did. He`s quoting our story, saying the bar association told us, channel 9, WFTV that someone from the state attorney`s office had forwarded remarks that Baez had allegedly made or his PR firm had allegedly made about prosecutors, and also word of some possible entertainment deals in the works, and that`s what started the bar investigation.
He says that if the state attorney`s office did this, quote, unquote, "anonymously," that that`s egregious behavior, that the anonymous reporting system was set up for private citizens. He feels that prosecutors, if they, in fact, did this, are interfering with Casey`s 6th Amendment right to counsel of her choice.
He is also telling the judge that if the judge doesn`t feel he has enough evidence to throw the prosecutors off the case, Baez is asking for a hearing and asking for agents of the state attorney`s office to be put on the stand under oath to answer to these charges. And again, this was filed very late today. No response yet from the judge, from prosecutors.
GRACE: Well, let me give you my legal opinion. To the lawyers -- Gloria Allred joining us, typically in LA, joining us tonight from our Manhattan studios. Ray Giudice from Atlanta, Carmen St. George, New York.
It`ll be a cold day below before the prosecutors are thrown off the case. Ray, have you ever seen -- as a prosecutor, yes, I would say every other case I tried, the defense tried to throw me off of the case. One time, they tried to throw me off the case because they said I was too familiar with the facts.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: OK, didn`t work. Will it work this time?
GIUDICE: I don`t think so, Nancy. However, the bar complaint has been dismissed against Mr. Baez. And I do think it is curious, in the middle of a very contested piece of litigation, for an anonymous phone call to come out of the state attorney`s office...
GRACE: That`s best that you`ve got, Ray?
GIUDICE: No, all I`m saying is...
GRACE: It`s curious? It`s curious?
GIUDICE: Nancy, I answered your question. They`re not going to be thrown off. I think it`s unprofessional, if you want a better word, to file an unmeritorious bar complaint, which is dismissed within 10 days, against opposing counsel. Maybe those lawyers ought to man up and put their name on it, if that`s how they feel.
GRACE: And to you, Gloria Allred. Bottom line, if -- especially in a case of this magnitude, if you found out the defense attorney may have a book or TV deal contingent on the outcome of the case, wouldn`t you feel it was your duty to report that?
ALLRED: Well, absolutely, Nancy. And by the way, I would have said why don`t they woman up if they`re going to do it, rather than man up. But in any event, yes, it -- the question is, does the conduct amount to a violation of the canon of ethnics in that state, of the standards that lawyers are supposed to adhere to when they represent clients. And if, in fact, they do violate it, then yes, that needs to be reported and there needs to be an investigation.
GRACE: Carmen?
ST. GEORGE: I don`t think it`s going anywhere, Nancy. I think this is just another motion in front of the judge. It`s going to be another string-along of motions in this long, long, long upcoming trial. And I really don`t think it has any merit.
GRACE: Out to our producer, Alexis Weed. Alexis, to George Anthony. He was originally put in a psych ward. He went along with it. He was not involuntarily forced into a psych ward. Bottom line, he was found in a Daytona Beach motel with alcohol and some prescription drugs. He said he wanted to go be with Caylee in heaven. All right. Baker Act says 72 hours under observation. Now we`re hearing about an extended stay behind the hospital walls. Why? And how does that jibe with the Baker Act?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE RESEARCHER: Nancy, like you said, it depends on whether or not George Anthony is there on a voluntary or involuntary basis. Obviously, if he`s there on a voluntary basis, he can agree to be there as long as he would like. If he`s -- if he is there on an involuntary basis, there is a 72-hour maximum that he can be held before it`s taken to the court.
GRACE: Oh. I get it. Nikki Pierce, is he still under security there in the hospital so people will not try to take his photo or listen in on his phone calls and conversations?
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Yes, he`s still under security. And as Alexis just said, he could leave at any time under his own power. He`s not under a mandatory hold. But there is security to make sure that no one can come take his picture, no one can come bother him while he is under treatment.
GRACE: Nikki Pierce, do you believe he`s going to be moved to a hospital closer to home?
PIERCE: Well, we`re hearing rumblings about that. Halifax Medical Center is over in Daytona Beach, and they wouldn`t confirm one way or the other. But we`re hearing that there may be an extended treatment plan and it may be executed here, closer to his home in the Orlando area.
GRACE: We`ll be right back. We`re taking your calls. Jackie in California, Angel in Virginia, please stay on hold.
But quickly, I want to tell you about this story. Police continue a search for a missing Montana family. They haven`t been heard from five weeks. The pick-up truck of Teddy and Juliet Littlelight and their baby son, Wyatt, found January 5, northeast Big Horn Lake. Thirty-year-old Teddy Littlelight is 6 feet, 1 inch tall, 180 pounds, brown eyes, short brown hair. His 25-year-old wife, Juliet, 5 feet, 6 inches, 120,light brown hair, brown eyes. Their son, Wyatt, just born October, 24 inches, 15 pounds. If you have info, please call the Big Horn County dispatch, 406- 665-9780.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re nothing but a bunch of crazed vultures, from my perspective, and I hope the American public doesn`t buy one doll.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could you try to get rich off of a murdered little girl?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not trying to get rich. This is a tribute to Caylee Anthony. She`s probably laughing and dancing. She was a sweet kid. She has a beautiful song. And let`s celebrate, you know, her, her personality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Now, what can you tell me about the possibility Lee Anthony will face criminal charges, brother Lee Anthony?
BELICH: I`ve had no indication of that whatsoever. I know his attorney has been talking a lot in recent days about his concerns about it. He`s raised the same concerns for weeks now. No information...
GRACE: OK. Natisha, do you know anything about that?
LANCE: Well, yes, Nancy. This is actually coming from his attorney, as well. He is saying that Lee Anthony has not been served a subpoena yet for that witness list, so he is concerned that officers and investigators may be wanting to charge Lee Anthony with obstruction of justice. Now, I spoke to the Orange County sheriff`s office today. They said when they need to talk to Lee Anthony, they will do so. But as of right now, no charges are looming against him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: Mom`s index finger. You`re the middle finger which is funny because you`re the big guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How close are you with your sister?
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: Her and I know that we can confide in each other on things on a level where we don`t feel like we would have to be obligated to share it with anybody else.
Casey began to break down and cry and she said, "Lee, do you want to know the truth?" I haven`t seen Caylee in 31 days.
We connect on a level above anybody else. We love each other unconditionally. And we can tell each other things that we may not feel comfortable telling anybody else even our parents.
I know that you trust me that I`m, that I`m going to do what`s best for everybody.
C. ANTHONY: Exactly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Attorney for Lee Anthony, brother Lee Anthony, says all signals indicate Lee Anthony will be criminally charged with obstruction.
Let`s take a look at that. To Leonard Padilla, you saw the dynamic between the family. I find it hard to believe that Lee Anthony would willingly obstruct justice. He might fall hook client thinker for what his sister told them but to willingly obstruct justice?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED LOOK FOR CAYLEE AND SPENT TIME WITH CASEY ANTHONY: There`s no doubt amongst us that Lee carried the message as part of the daisy chain that led to the finding of the body by Kronk. Now a lot of people are going to disagree with me on that but I`m telling you, when he asked her if this was like before in that one interview, in that one conversation he was having with her, that`s when the whole thing started.
The idea and the concept of developing the information for the body to be found.
GRACE: OK.
PADILLA: You carried it. He`s going to be arrested.
GRACE: I get it, I get it. But that in itself does not equal obstruction of justice. There is no duty in our jurisprudence system that you have to volunteer anything to police. I could see a murder right out here, here in downtown Manhattan and not call police and I cannot be charged with anything. So that in itself is not going lead to an obstruction charge.
PADILLA: No, once the body, once the body`s out there, it`s been discarded, and Lee has information where the body is and he passes that information onto a civilian instead of law enforcement, that civilian could possibly move the body. Therefore, he`s got a problem at that stage.
GRACE: I don`t see it. Let me just ask a couple of yes/no questions.
Gloria, will that equal obstruction?
GLORIA ALLRED, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ADVOCATE: No.
GRACE: Ray? Ray?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I said no.
GRACE: Carmen?
CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, Nancy.
GRACE: And Ray, that was actually three words. But you know, whatever.
Out to the lines, Jackie in California. Hi, Jackie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to know how much hate mail is Casey getting?
GRACE: Oh gosh. Out to Natisha Lance, Natisha, is she getting hate mail? I don`t know that the jail would even put that through to her.
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: I don`t than she`s getting hate mail but we do hear from those visitation calls that she had with her family that she said that she was getting a lot of mail that was actually on her side and people were siding with her and she said that she was getting a lot of things that were very encouraging. But I don`t know about hate mail.
GRACE: Well, Natisha, we have actually asked the jail about her mail and they have refused to comment. You know, very quickly, Mike Brooks, I guess the jail would pass it on. There`s no way they can legally hold back mail from an inmate.
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: No, there`s no reason to hold back mail from an inmate. And you know if they thought there was a threat, they would take that list and take a look at all of her visitors to make sure that the no -- the visitors got in to see her whatsoever.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Angel in Virginia. Hi, Angel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good dear, what`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve got two real quick ones. When they -- when this first happened and the dogs hit in the backyard at the Anthony`s home, why wasn`t the house back in the backyard done thoroughly?
GRACE: You know, it`s my understanding -- out to Kathi Belich with WFTV -- that there was a very thorough search at that time. And that the Anthonys, George and Cindy Anthony, allowed the search.
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: Actually they were the ones that asked for the search in the backyard according to some of the records that were released and there was a thorough search back there. There was digging that went on back there while the dogs alerted to, I guess, the odor of decomposition in the backyard.
No remains were found in the backyard so they had to continue searching but there was a thorough search back there.
GRACE: To the chief medical examiner in Broward County, Florida, Dr. Joshua Perper, renowned doctor and author of "When to Call the Doctor." Dr. Perper, thank you for being with us.
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": Sure.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, it`s my understanding, one of the defense motions is requesting records regarding maggots found at the crime scene. How would that aid a murder investigation?
PERPER: It`s not clear to me what -- what exactly was found at the scene?
GRACE: Maggots. M-A-G-G-O-T-S.
PERPER: Well, if there are maggots at the scene of the investigation then this can show, number one, the maggots can be examined chemically and find out if they have any kind of drugs inside which were basically drugs which are present in the body of Caylee and ingested by the maggots. And therefore.
GRACE: And Dr. Perper, wouldn`t the age, the development stage of the larvae, the maggot larvae, tell police how long the remains had been there?
PERPER: If they are still remains, yes. This could help in some cases but not always especially considering the long period of time...
GRACE: Yes.
PERPER: . that the body was left there.
GRACE: And you see this video of the rain and the sunshine. Remember Hurricane Fay came through dumping gallons of water there at scene.
Out to the lines, Leila in Virginia. Hi, Leila.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. My question is why is the death penalty off the table? Because as a mother, if it was an accident, not that I would put duct tape on my child ever, but my immediate instinct if my child falls off of his bike is to run and catch him and look for any injury.
So why wouldn`t she have grabbed the duct tape and try to fix her?
GRACE: Well, number one, the state is going under the theory of intentional homicide. Let`s go to the lawyers. Gloria Allred, family law attorney, victims right advocate, Ray Giudice, defense attorney, Atlanta, Carmen St. George, defense attorney, New York.
Gloria, here`s the kicker. The search for chloroform, how to make homemade chloroform, was a long period of time before little Caylee was murdered, before chloroform was found in the trunk. That says, to me, premeditation.
ALLRED: Yes, that`s true. That`s an argument that there is premeditation but, of course, the state is not compelled to seek the death penalty. It`s a discretionary act and/or decision. And they may feel that, in fact, it might concern a jury and they might not get a conviction if in fact they sought the death penalty.
GRACE: To Raymond Giudice, you know a lot of people use the lay or the street concept of premeditation, such as a long protracted planning process, such as a poisoning death that lasts months and months and months.
GIUDICE: Right.
GRACE: A tiny snip of arsenic every other day. That`s not what premeditation is under the law.
GIUDICE: In an instance.
GRACE: It can be formed in the twinkling of an eye.
GIUDICE: That`s right. In an instance where you change from a nonintentional act to an intentional act. When you change from a planned or an idea to strike some purposely on the head with a hammer that you picked up off the floor. That`s how fast it can form and that`s correct.
Let me just last say to the caller. I don`t think the death penalty is off the table. The state has decided, at this point in time, not to invoke the death penalty or to ask for it. But they`re not precluded from doing that later on.
GRACE: You know, Ray, I like that example you gave about raising a hammer. I remember telling juries, premeditation can be formed in the twinkling of an eye. And it can be formed in the time it takes you to raise a gun and pull the trigger. That`s all the time that is necessary under the law.
But Carmen St. George, one reason the state has temporarily taken the DP, death penalty, off the table, I think, is because of the Anthony family. They do not want to seek the death penalty against their only daughter. They are also the victim`s family, little Caylee`s family. And if they don`t want the death penalty, the state`s going to be hard-pressed to overrule the victim`s family.
ST. GEORGE: Well, Nancy, I agree with you, but that decision was made some time ago. And it seems.
GRACE: It`s not permanent, Carmen. It`s not permanent.
ST. GEORGE: It`s not, it`s not permanent. And believe me, if they find some incriminating evidence against the brother that he tampered with evidence, that he may be had something to do with hiding the weapon or hiding the body or moving any kind of evidence, I think they will bring the death penalty right back.
GRACE: Well, remember, they took the death penalty off the table before the body had been found. All this, a whole new ball game now.
Everybody, as we go to break, a very special happy birthday to Georgia friend of the show, Lauren. She is a pre-med senior at the University of Georgia. Isn`t she beautiful?
Happy 22nd birthday, beautiful Lauren. I can`t wait to see you graduate from medical school. You keep on keeping on, girl.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news in the alleged extortion plot against superstar John Travolta. The secret document in the case has now been revealed as unconfirmed reports say the item is an authorization for transporting Travolta`s son, Jett, in the ambulance.
Travolta and wife Kelly Preston reportedly had an issue over where Jett should be taken for treatment after suffering a seizure that resulted in the 16-year-old`s death. The legal battle continues with Travolta reportedly being added to the witness list for the prosecution in their case against two people accused of trying to blackmail Travolta for an estimated $25 million.
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GRACE: Out to Tom O`Neil, senior editor with "In Touch Weekly." You know that, Tom, that doesn`t even make sense that someone would try to blackmail Travolta, John Travolta, and his family to the tune of $25 million because he wanted his son treated somewhere else?
I`m not -- there`s got to be more to it than that. A cell phone photo, something.
TOM O`NEIL, SENIOR EDITOR, IN TOUCH WEEKLY: Well, think about what this document is. It`s a refusal to transport so what it theoretically looks like, and apparently John signs this, it looks like a callous decision of a parent who says I don`t want my son treated for this emergency situation.
GRACE: Huh-uh. Huh-uh.
O`NEIL: In fact.
GRACE: Go ahead.
O`NEIL: But in fact, what the discussion was going on at the house was John wanted to fly his son back to Florida so that he could be treated there. He believed at the time he could actually treat the son faster there.
Remember, wherever Travolta goes, there is a Boeing 747 right outside the window. That`s why he lives in Ocala, Florida is because he`s got a jet port right there at his driveway and the reason he stays at this resort where he has a residence is there`s a landing strip right outside the window.
GRACE: Isn`t it right, Brooke Anderson? Brooke is joining us. She`s co-host of "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT."
Brooke, it`s just as if many people would step out their kitchen door into their garage and hop in the car, he would hop into his plane and be in Florida in, what, 35 minutes?
BROOKE ANDERSON, CO-HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Right, 30, 45 minutes. So there was an issue, according to TMZ, about where they wanted Jett to be treated. Whether to be flown to Florida or whether to take the ambulance to the hospital in the Bahamas.
Now the senior assistant commissioner of police, Marvin Dames, told the Nassau Garden that basically it is a refusal to transport document. It`s basically when someone refuses emergency medical treatment, but he also says that this doesn`t really come into play in terms of Jett Travolta.
Only when the person in question has minor injuries does this document pertain to them. And obviously Jett Travolta was seriously ill. Danes said -- told "People" magazine that the Travoltas did everything in their power to help Jett Travolta. And that basically this document is worthless. So a document that the alleged extortionists were using is worth nothing.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy dear. Your babies are growing like little weeds.
GRACE: They`re both walking. They`re both walking.
CALLER: How wonderful. You`ll be running soon after them.
GRACE: I chased John David for about eight minutes tonight trying to put the diaper on him.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to know how could somebody do this to this family. They`re upstanding. They`re good people and asked for $25 million. I also want to know how much time these people that tried to extort them can get in that jail over in that country?
To Lauren Howard, psychotherapist, the family is dealing with the sudden unexpected death of their boy and now this, and come to find out, one of the accused is actually a Bahamian senator.
LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: And isn`t this the curse of celebrity? Because if he wasn`t John Travolta, if this wasn`t a famous person, would, A, anyone ever even fathom going after $25 million? Or, furthermore, would they go after such a, really, a horrendously offensive - - this guy`s -- their child just died. The only reason that anyone would do this is because of his celebrity -- they`re a celebrity.
They know that they value their privacy. So maybe, just maybe, they would pay them this money just to keep themselves out of the press, when in fact this is just a normal upstanding citizen who they`ve lost their child.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, Mike, quickly, in an emergency situation, are authorities required to get some type of a waiver or authority to take care of an injured person?
BROOKS: If you`re seriously injured or you have serious trauma, you are going to be taken to the nearest trauma center unless you tell the paramedics, no, I want to go to another hospital. Because if you`re hurt and you`re going to take you near here in Atlanta, they`ll take you to Grady but if you want to go to Piedmont you have to specifically request that and they have to take you there.
GRACE: Back out to Tom O`Neil with "In Touch Weekly," Tom, I still say if you`re going to try to blackmail for $25 million, there`s got to be more to it than Travolta wanting to get his kid treated somewhere else even in Florida. I -- don`t see $25 million in exchange for this one document. I would say, if I were Travolta, fine, put it in the "Enquirer." I`d be mad if you didn`t.
O`NEIL: That`s apparently -- exactly what he`s done. Either these two people are enormously stupid or there are some more documents, which we haven`t seen yet, that is at the heart of this thing and that`s possible.
GRACE: I`m still saying cell phone photo because you know the ambulance driver is allegedly involved.
Out to the lines, Julie in Canada. Hi, Julie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear, what`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First, I wanted to say it`s nice to talk to you. Finally get through to you.
GRACE: Likewise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering, has Jett Travolta ever been tested for epilepsy? And if he has, what was the result?
GRACE: Interesting question. Tom O`Neil, what about? I know there was a lot of speculation he was autistic but what about epilepsy?
O`NEIL: Well, as one of the doctors on this show had said in the past that it`s really interchangeable. These seizures are epileptic seizures so yes, he was epileptic.
GRACE: To Dr. Joshua Perper, Dr. Perper, you know, I`m just a lawyer. In my understanding, epilepsy is not the same thing as autism.
PERPER: No, no, it`s a different condition. And the majority of autistic children are not epileptic. Totally different mechanism. It might be -- incidentally, but there`s no correlation between the two.
GRACE: So I guess, Dr. Perper, it would be more accurate to say that someone that is autistic may suffer epileptic-type seizures?
PERPER: May have also epilepsy as an unrelated disease.
GRACE: OK.
PERPER: And obviously if somebody has epilepsy it has to be treated.
GRACE: Everyone, tonight, more details being uncovered about a $25 million blackmail plot against John Travolta. Allegedly a Bahamian senator as well as the ambulance driver who took little Jett to the hospital are involved according to accusations. Take a listen.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jett was pronounced dead at the hospital. But Travolta`s lawyer told "Us" magazine he believes (INAUDIBLE) callous and cold hearted. But police in the Bahamas say it`s true.
Bahamian police cell CNN they are investigating an attempt to extort money, possibly millions of dollars, from John Travolta and his wife, Kelly Preston, as they mourned their teenage son.
Police would not confirm details after the alleged extortion plot. The senior police official told reporters those include a Bahamian senator, an ambulance driver, Tarino Lightbourne.
Lightbourne shared Jett`s final moments with the tabloids including personal details about how John Travolta was crying and praying as he fought to save his son`s life. He said Travolta performed CPR on his son and cradled him in his arms after he died.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Those final photos show that incredibly strong and loving bond particularly between Jett and his father. It was always family first and is always family first. He was a child who had special needs, but John and Kelly attended to every one of those.
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GRACE: Out to the lines, Wendy in Oklahoma. Hi, Wendy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wanting to know, are the Travoltas planning on selling their house and are they going back to the Bahamas?
GRACE: What do we know about that, Brooke Anderson?
ANDERSON: We don`t know much about that. In fact, we`ve been in touched with John Travolta`s publicist, his attorneys, Bahamian officials. And Travolta is not commenting right now on Jett Travolta or this alleged extortion plot or any other personal matters at this time. They have hold up.
GRACE: OK.
ANDERSON: . at their home in Ocala, Florida.
GRACE: To Gloria Allred, Ray Giudice, Carmen St. George.
Gloria, if these allegations are true, what is the penalty in the U.S. for extortion?
ALLRED: Well, I guess it`s a state by state matter, if in fact there is a state crime that is alleged. But certainly a lengthy sentence. And of course.
GRACE: OK.
ALLRED: . they`re charged not only with extortion but conspiracy to commit extortion.
GRACE: Ray?
GIUDICE: It would be a felony and if they used interstate phones or anything like that, phone lines, it could be a federal felony and Gloria is right, we`re probably looking at 10 to 20.
GRACE: Carmen?
ST. GEORGE: I would agree. It`s the unlawful attempt to gain money or properties through coercion. And that would be a serious felony.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop. I want to remember Army Sergeant Jose Ulloa, 23, New York, New York, killed Iraq. On a second tour, awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. Described as a joker. Loved music, dancing, driving. Leaves behind sisters Merriam and Stephanie, grieving wife, Melanie, infant son, Steven.
Jose Ulloa, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight a special good night to New York friend of the show, Lisa, and Florida friend of the show, Joe.
Everyone, we`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night friend.
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