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Court Hearing for Casey Anthony Set for Thursday Morning
Aired January 29, 2009 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide, the little girl`s remains completely skeletonized. This after a utility meter reader stumbles on a garbage bag containing a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair. The killer duct tapes the child`s mouth, then finishes off by placing a child`s heart- shaped sticker over the duct tape, little Caylee`s tiny skeleton double- bagged like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. The clock ticking down on a courtroom showdown, says local WFTV. Jail officials announce they will use force, if necessary, to ensure tot mom doesn`t pull another no-show tomorrow morning, this after tot mom brags she doesn`t care if the judge holds her in contempt, that she`s not going to court.
In stunning court documents just filed today, we learn the defense demanding sealed documents regarding DNA parentage of little Caylee. Translation: Who`s the daddy? Well, doesn`t the tot mom know? The defense, according to reports, seeking DNA proof that former fiance Jesse Grund is not the biological father. While tot mom Casey Anthony actually trying to orchestrate a secret jailhouse funeral behind bars, still no funeral plans, Caylee`s remains sitting in a box at a local funeral home.
A trial date to be set down in the next 24 hours. Will grandparents George and Cindy make it to the tot mom`s hearing? But all the courtroom drama apparently not affecting the tot mom`s appetite, as she orders up even more treats for herself to enjoy in her private jail cell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDFATHER: You are the boss through this whole thing, OK?
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Well, no, I`m not anymore, Dad. I haven`t been since I got here.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh, yes, you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A judge has just rejected the defense`s attempt to keep the tot mom out of court, and now Casey Anthony must appear at a hearing just hours from now. The defense had filed a motion objecting to the judge`s initial decision to force the tot mom to be present for all future hearings, but the judge says that objection is overruled.
CASEY ANTHONY: I was trying to help them in whatever way that I can, but if they come in here attacking me, they`re not getting (DELETED). I`m sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A showdown looms in court tomorrow as a number of battles are expected to be waged over motions filed by both the state and the defense. Casey Anthony`s defense team will be asking the court to have the Orange County prosecutors removed from the case. Not only that, but defense attorney Jose Baez wants access to the crime scene and the records from Texas Equusearch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to have our independent experts examine the area, actually have an independent analysis of what they say it actually says it is.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m completely upset. The media`s going to have a frickin` field day with this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, an all-American co-ed accused of taking part in the twisted and violent murder of her 21-year-old British roommate, 21- year-old American girl Amanda Knox set to go on trial in an Italian courtroom for murder. Tonight, we go live to the trial of 21-year-old Amanda Knox.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amanda Knox wrote on her blog that she loved the Italian way of life. An American exchange student in Perugia, north of Rome, she studied the language and had an Italian boyfriend. Today, the 20-year-old from Seattle sits in this Italian jail, a suspect in the mysterious death of her roommate, Meredith Kercher. Italian police are still trying to piece together a horrific night of sex, drugs and murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors say Meredith Kercher was murdered fighting off a sexual assault. Police collected a mountain of evidence they say will prove that the victim`s American roommate, Amanda Knox, her former Italian boyfriend, Rafaelle Solecito (ph), and Rudy Gadet (ph), a 21-year-old with origins in the Ivory Coast, strangled and stabbed her to death, the murder weapon this kitchen knife prosecutors say police found in Solecito`s apartment with DNA traces of both Knox and the victim.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amanda`s aunt says the family was disappointed but not shocked by the indictment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no evidence against Amanda or Rafaelle, and they are completely innocent. As things progress and as the process takes its natural course, Amanda`s going to be found innocent and she`s going to be home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. The clock ticking. A trial date will be sent down in the next 24 hours, a trial that could send tot mom Casey Anthony to Florida`s death row.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I may have been the boss walking in here, but the rules have surely changed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tot mom Casey Anthony must now show up to court. Just hours ago, Judge Stan Strickland flatly rejected the defense`s motion objecting to the tot mom being forced to attend all future hearings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge Stan Strickland says, If we`re going to have these pre-trial hearings and everything else, you`ve got to be here in court. Jose Baez wants Casey to remain in her cell for the time being, says she has that right to stay there in her cell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want the prosecutors thrown off the case because they claim the other side tried to smear the name of Jose Baez.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t care how much criticism I face personally. It will be dealt with at its proper time and place. But right now, I`m focused on my client.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a result of the judge`s ruling, she will now be in an Orange County courtroom just hours from now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony`s defense team is now requesting all fingerprint-related evidence in the case. It also wants materials linked to a decomposing hair found in the trunk of her car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What Jose Baez wants is, he basically wants bios from everybody that worked at all these labs.
CASEY ANTHONY: Life`s not fair. The stuff that`s being said has been completely -- completely fabricated and twisted and everything else, and it`s ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, we`ll find out whether it`s ridiculous and fabricated in court. In less than 24 hours, the courtroom showdown expected to occur.
Straight out to Natisha Lance, our producer, standing by there at the courthouse. Natisha, what is on the plate for tomorrow?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, there are several motions that are going to be heard. One of them is a motion to inspect the crime scene, which Jose Baez has been trying to do. Also, they want to get their hands on Equusearch`s records, which they were not able to accomplish the last time they had a hearing. There is also the state motion to strike the defense`s witness list. And last, but not least, they will have a status update on when the trial will take place.
GRACE: Well -- to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Kathi, it`s my understanding the defense is also demanding to see sealed documents regarding the parentage of little Caylee.
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: That`s right. They added that to one of their motions. I don`t know that that`s going to be heard tomorrow, but they want the DNA evidence concerning Jesse Grund and whether Jesse Grund is Caylee`s father. Jesse Grund told us months ago that he`s not the father, those tests proved that, but the defense wants to take a look at them for themselves.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Everybody, we are taking your calls live. To Eleanor Dixon, a felony prosecutor in the Atlanta jurisdiction, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, peter Odom, defense attorney, as well. Welcome to all of you.
Eleanor Dixon, can they really drag in Jesse Grund`s information? I mean, he`s not part of this trial. Why is he getting dragged into it?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, Nancy, I`m sure it`s just a defense trick to try to get his DNA and somehow link him to the crime. But my bet is that Casey Anthony doesn`t even know who the father is.
GRACE: To Renee Rockwell and Peter Odom, both veteran trial lawyers. Renee, what difference does it make now who the daddy is? Why is the defense demanding to see sealed documents regarding DNA parentage?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it may not be the question who the father is, it might lead to somebody else or some party that we haven`t even thought about up to this point. Why not? It`s a mere discovery tactic.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Put Rockwell back up. Are you telling me -- I`m trying to translate, trying to read into what you just said. I think what you`re saying, Miss Rockwell, is that this is a fishing expedition by the defense to find out who the bio dad is so they can accuse him of the murder.
ROCKWELL: Might not be somebody else to point the finger at, Nancy, but is there ever any information that you can totally discount when somebody`s fighting for their life?
GRACE: Peter Odom?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They want to know everything they can about the child. They want to know everything they can about possible motives people could have, about another possible motive someone might have for killing this child. So it`s perfectly reasonable that they`d ask for this information. Whether it becomes relevant or not it really doesn`t matter at this point.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall. Bethany Marshall, clearly, the request by the defense for DNA parentage reports is a fishing expedition to find out who the bio -- biological father is. Why don`t they just ask their client who`s the daddy?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Because I don`t think the client knows who the daddy is. And this client of theirs has ruined everybody`s life she comes in contact with, and now Jesse Grund. Jesse Grund did nothing but devote himself to Casey and Caylee. And she leaves a trail of broken hearts. The grandfather`s money is taken. I mean, her great- grandfather. Cindy goes into this whole radical belief system. Cindy`s brother is now disenfranchised from the family. George has made a suicide attempt. And now Jesse Grund is drug into this. Everybody gets hurt who touches this girl`s life in some way.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Christy in Canada. Hi, Christy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. My question is I wanted to know if it will be brought up in the trial that Casey and her lawyer said in court that Caylee might have overdosed on sedatives and how that might affect the trial.
GRACE: Let`s talk about that one moment. Back to Natisha Lance, our producer there at the courthouse. Natisha, as I recall -- and this may have been reiterated in court pursuant to Christy in Canada`s recollection -- but remember when the death penalty expert was brought in on the case and he wrote a legal memo to the state, asking them not to seek the death penalty, and in the memo he said the child, Caylee, likely died by an accidental overdose of drugs administered by the mother. Did they mention that in court?
LANCE: I don`t recall that being mentioned in court. But you`re absolutely right. That was in that packet that was sent over by Terence Lenamen (ph), the attorney who is working with the defense to get the death penalty taken off the table.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: There`s absolutely nothing to find out, even what I told the detectives...
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: Well, you know, everything you`ve been telling them is a lie.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think your sister is being truthful?
LEE ANTHONY: To the best of her ability right now, I do. Frankly, I wouldn`t still be here if I didn`t think that she was trying to cooperate with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY: I know my daughter`s not leveling. And I know that`s what she`s done in the past.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: All I want is Caylee home, but I want to be there when she comes home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I`ve got to believe her that she knows everything is OK.
CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDMOTHER: If you had told them the truth and not lied about everything...
How come she never got a chance to get the car? It doesn`t make sense.
I trust Casey, and I love her and I support her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. In less than 24 hours, a trial date for murder one against tot mom Casey Anthony will be set down in a court of law. That hearing kicks off tomorrow morning 0830.
Straight out to the lines. Robin in Florida. Hi, Robin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering, since most of the public felt the grandparents were involved, if anyone thought that the -- had the idea that maybe the grandfather`s suicide attempt was just a ploy to gain sympathy and have some input towards this hearing they want privately.
GRACE: OK, hold on. Robin in Florida, did you say the public believes the grandparents were involved in Caylee`s murder?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not in the murder, but in the knowledge of it (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: All right, that they knew more than they`re saying and that may be inadvertently covered up? OK. So you`re asking, do I believe they want the closed-door meeting to go over their potential involvement?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. I was wondering if you felt or anyone felt that the suicide attempt by the grandfather was to gain sympathy so that they could possibly get this meeting pushed (ph).
GRACE: OK. Gotcha. What about it? Let`s go out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter who helped look for Caylee, spent time with the Anthony family. I find it hard to believe that George Anthony would do anything as a ploy, that he would trump up a suicide attempt. I mean, I don`t see it. This was a legitimate attempt. I think that his text messages and his letter were genuine. I don`t think it was a ploy in any way.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: I think where the confusion comes in is where -- the letter that he wrote, the last page, he says, The medicine`s working, I`m falling off, you know, and all that. And the cops come to the door and he`s standing there telling them -- you know, discussing the matter with them quite well and quite ably.
However, when we were there, we saw him break down a couple of times and just -- you know, in some form of desperation. I`m not trained in that area, obviously, of medicine. But you can see that he was right on the edge. And Rob would -- Rob`s very, very close to George, and Rob would many times say, Oh, man, he`s going to lose it any day now. He`s going to lose it. So I think it was more of a cry for help than an actual attempt at suicide.
GRACE: Or a ploy of some type.
Everybody, right now, we are waiting for the tot mom to be brought to court tomorrow morning, early tomorrow morning. Mike Brooks, very typically, if you`ve got an 8:30 hearing, the defendant from the jailhouse will be brought over, like, 6:00 AM. For security reasons, they`re often on a bus with a lot of other inmates from the jail. It takes a while to assemble everybody, take care of security. They`re usually brought in, many courthouses, underneath the courthouse, to a parking garage underneath so there`s not any escape attempt possible out on the street. How do you think that will go tomorrow morning?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Oh, I think they`ll get her over there very early, Nancy. And as you said, most jails do have what they call a sally port. They`ll probably take her by herself, though. They probably won`t put her on a bus with some of the other ones.
I mean, if you see -- here in Fulton County a lot of the time, you`ll see a bus, a number of cars. I mean, they could just put her in one of the cars, blacked-out windows, and you might not even know which car she`s in. That`s the way I think probably it`ll go down tomorrow with Orange County sheriff`s office.
GRACE: To Steve Helling, staff writer with "People" magazine. Steve, thank you for being with us. Tot mom has said in the past she did not care if the court held her in contempt, that she did not want to go to court. Do you predict there will be any type of a problem tomorrow? The court ordered her to show up in court.
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Well, that`s a good question, and who knows what she`s going to end up doing. One thing I`ve learned about Casey Anthony is you never can guess and you never can predict what she`s going to do. So there will be some fireworks tomorrow, and it will be interesting to see what happens.
GRACE: You know, back to what the caller said earlier regarding George Anthony`s suicide attempt. He allegedly told the medics he didn`t take anything. However, his attorney is saying it was a suicide attempt. We know that there were empty pill bottles there. What do we know?
HELLING: What we know is that it was the low point of his life, and what we know is that he probably did take something. We know that there was some alcohol found in the room. But we don`t know exactly when he took it or how much he took.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Debbie in Illinois. Hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, first off, your twins are beautiful. And can I ask you, did you say you were 38 when you gave birth?
GRACE: Oh, no, dear. I wish that were true. I was 48, 4-8.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, God bless you.
GRACE: So if it can happen for me, it can happen for anybody. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God bless you.
GRACE: I was encouraged by the 60-year-old woman that gave birth. OK, go ahead. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. I always figured her brother was involved in this situation. And my prayers goes out to their family. And I`m not so sure about the dad thing. But why should she be able to -- if they put her in the population, I would understand because they would kill her if they put her in the population of the jail. But why should she be able to get snacks, read books, just do anything she wants in that room? Why won`t they take that away from her?
GRACE: You know, that`s an interesting question that I`ve been wondering about. Out to Natisha Lance, who is standing by at the courthouse. She`s been joining us from that jailhouse. Natisha, expensive bottled water, chocolates, fruits, I believe it was crab meat, all types of amenities there in the jail. She just had another commissary order. Where is she getting the money?
LANCE: Well, money has been deposited into her canteen from random people all over the country, Nancy, and there was also that money that was found on her when she was taken into custody initially. But people from all over the world -- all over the country, rather, have been depositing money into her, supporting her, encouraging her. And she does continue to make these commissary orders. And the jail says that a percentage of the money that is used for these commissary orders goes to support special programs that they have.
GRACE: OK, and I`m looking at Ken Carnig (ph) in Tampa, Florida, who sends a money order to Casey Anthony to buy her chocolates and expensive bottled water. Another from as far away as California.
Bethany Marshall, what are these people thinking?
MARSHALL: Well, I think that a lot of people are identified with various aspects of this story. Some people are identified with what it`s like to be a victim of a crime. But the people who have sent in money may themselves be identified with the idea of being misunderstood or being falsely accused, or maybe they themselves are mothers who have neglected or hurt their own children in some way. And because of that, it`s mobilized tremendous sympathy towards Casey Anthony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on! Nobody`s letting me speak.
I`m frustrated and I`m angry. I spent the day almost completely by myself with my head under the covers, completely and utterly miserable. My entire life has been taken from me. Everything has been taken from me!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers." Every time we play sound from the jail of the tot mom -- and she`s due in court tomorrow morning, 8:30 sharp -- it`s always, Me, me, me, me, me. I`m not hearing anything about, I was up all night dreaming about Caylee, I can`t believe that she was discarded like trash, who would do that. Nothing. Nothing. It`s always about how she`s misunderstood.
MARSHALL: And you know, when they did the psychological exam in the jail, one of the things they probably took a look at is whether or not she had any empathy for the child at all because lack of empathy is a predictor of homicide. But you know, with patients like her, who are so profoundly self-involved, they have no idea what anybody else is thinking or feeling, sometimes the entire therapy consists of getting them to think about other people`s mental states because they`re so self-involved and selfish. And she certainly fits that profile.
GRACE: To Steve Helling with "People" magazine. George Anthony may get out of the psyche ward tomorrow. Will they come to court, Steve?
HELLING: I don`t think so. I don`t think we`re going to see them there, but who knows? We`ll have to wait and see.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State attorney Lawson Lamar was able to convince a grand jury that the 22-year-old mother should be charged with capital murder for allegedly killing her 3-year-old daughter Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Defense lawyers want prosecutors thrown off the case because they claim prosecutors tried to smear the name of Anthony`s lead attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bar association told us, Channel 9, WFTV, that someone from the state attorney`s office has forwarded remarks that Baez had allegedly made or his P.R. firm has allegedly made about prosecutors.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: I understand that there is an election going on and I understand that those days are numbered, and I understand that Casey Anthony is public enemy number one, and that there are -- that the state attorney`s office and the sheriff`s department are under a great deal of pressure to close this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This case will not be prosecuted by news releases laying out our case to further excite the public. We will properly do our work in a courtroom setting with the circuit judge presiding to provide a fair trial for the defendant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony`s defense team heads back to court for an emergency motion tomorrow.
JESSE GRUND, CASEY ANTHONY`S EX-FIANCE: Do I believe it`s possible that Caylee did have a nanny and Casey lied to her enough about her family that she thinks that she`s protecting them right now? That she thinks she`s protecting Caylee?
I don`t see why not. We -- can all tell that from the last couple of years Casey is a very effective liar. I think I`d use the word diabolical to describe the way she lies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: And now as we wait to go to court tomorrow morning at 8:30 a.m., former fiance Jesse Grund has been dragged back into the fray. The defense seeking DNA parentage reports according to local sources to determine whether Jesse Grund is the father of little Caylee.
Also, tomorrow morning, we`ll find out the entire story behind the defense maneuver to have the prosecutors thrown off the case.
It`s my understanding, back to Kathy Belich, WFTV, it`s all because the defense thinks the state filed an anonymous bar complaint against him?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: Well, I guess the state attorney`s office did forward news releases that came from Jose Baez`s P.R. firm that were making disparaging remarks about the prosecutors.
The state attorney here, Lawson Lamar, was running for re-election at the time that he went to the grand jury to get an indictment against Casey and the P.R. firm had made remarks to that effect that it was all political motivation behind going for a first-degree murder indictment in October.
Prosecutors, apparently, someone from the state attorney`s office sent a complaint to the bar back in October and he feels like it wasn`t fair to him.
GRACE: Out to Natisha Lance standing by at the courthouse, wasn`t there an anonymous complaint filed against Baez in relation to his P.R. firm? And now the state is saying, no, I didn`t send it.
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: The state is saying that they had absolutely nothing to do with it but -- and they`re also saying that Jose Baez filed this complaint or this recluse against them inappropriately. They said that he should have filed for a delinquency as.
LANCE: Rather than a receipt.
GRACE: To me, to me, that`s just a matter of which is the right motion to file. I`m not concerned with that.
I want to go to the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, Renee Rockwell, Peter Odom. The state answers back. You know what? We didn`t file the complaint, but if we had been told you had monkey business going on with your P.R. firm we would have filed a complaint.
But is that his grounds for trying to get the prosecution thrown off the case?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Nancy, no, it certainly doesn`t seem like it would be. That seems ridiculous because the prosecutors have a code of conduct and ethical code of conduct where we cannot say anything about a case. We can`t give facts. We can only talk about what`s in the indictment.
GRACE: And to defense attorneys, Renee Rockwell and Peter Odom -- Renee, out of all the cases I`ve tried I would say a large percentage of them the defense always tries to get the prosecution thrown off the case. It never works.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I know, but what are you going to do? Just have no prosecution in the defense and the judge? But, Nancy, this isn`t anything. They`re on the wrong mark here and they just need to get back to the business of trying to save her life.
GRACE: And, you know, Peter Odom, talk about grabbing the tiger by the tail. Once you do you can`t hold on and you can`t let go. Why would they basically slap the prosecution right in the face? It`s just -- it doesn`t make sense.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, these prosecutors have been so vocal about every aspect of this...
GRACE: Oh, really? When?
ODOM: But, you know.
GRACE: Wait, when, Peter?
ODOM: Well, didn`t I just say the prosecutor talking about how he wanted to try this case in a courtroom? But wasn`t that a press conference?
GRACE: But, yes, Peter.
ODOM: Wasn`t that the contest?
GRACE: Peter, that.
ODOM: Did I get that wrong?
GRACE: That`s one of three, I believe, three public statements made from the entire course of this investigation. So I hardly think that there have been a lot of press conferences by the state.
ODOM: In a sense, Nancy, this is all really, as Renee said, in the end doesn`t mean anything. This is the white noise that forms the background.
GRACE: Yes, you`re backing off that, aren`t you?
ODOM: That forms the background to high-profile trials.
ODOM: In the end they should both get back to the law.
GRACE: OK, Peter Odom, nice backstroke.
Out to the lines, Glenda in Illinois, hi, Glenda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: How are you? What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just like to know the reward money. The -- supposedly the meter reader got 5,000, I heard. What happened to the rest of it and who put it up?
GRACE: What did happen to the rest of it, Natisha?
LANCE: Well, it was just the $5,000, Nancy, and that was given to him by Mark Nejame, the former attorney for the Anthony family, and he said that he had received some charitable donations and he, in turn, turned it over to Roy Kronk for finding the remains of Caylee.
GRACE: I guess the other bigger award was for the safe return of Caylee, correct, Natisha?
LANCE: That`s correct.
LANCE: And that reward money.
GRACE: Go ahead.
LANCE: Nothing happened with that -- nothing happened with that reward money. The companies that had put that money up took it back.
GRACE: To Dr. Michael Bell, Palm Beach County chief medical examiner, the defense has filed a motion wanting sealed secret documents revealed regarding the DNA parentage of little Caylee. Of course, there`s the obvious question, why don`t you just ask your client who`s the daddy, but, you know, common sense aside, Dr. Bell, what would that be, the DNA parentage reports?
Don`t you have to have a man to compare the DNA to, to determine who the father is?
DR. MICHAEL BELL, PALM BEACH CO. CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Of course, all these DNA tests require both the sample, the unknown or one that`s -- comes from the child and then compare it to a male, a man, for comparison in this case.
GRACE: I`m just telling you right now that local report, who was it, Natisha, that reported that this is all about Jesse Grund?
LANCE: I believe, Nancy, it was one of the local affiliates down here. I`m really not sure which one you`re referring to, though.
GRACE: I`m pretty sure it`s WFTV. They`re stating that the defense request for DNA parentage reports is all about eliminating or including Jesse Grund. I see that as a clear defense strategy to try to blame somebody else for the murder.
Out to Becky in Kentucky, hi, Becky.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I`ve always had a problem with Cindy and the way she has handled Casey in her questioning her. Having a 23-year-old daughter who has a 2-year-old son, I -- my daughter would be begging from the police to interrogate her rather than me, but that`s just me, but my question is, is I don`t buy into this whole memorial service that they`re trying to -- that they say that they want to have.
I wonder if this is something Baez has put out there so that it makes -- it looks like Casey wants to be part of something.
GRACE: Oh, you mean the -- secret funeral service behind bars?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, because I don`t think they would -- Baez won`t even let her be part of that because of the fear of a camera being present somewhere.
GRACE: Excellent question. Bethany Marshall, since she never talks about little Caylee to anybody in all those hours of police interrogation and all of the jailhouse visits, why would they now want to have a memorial for Caylee behind bars?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, I think Becky is absolutely correct that they`re trying to create sympathy on Casey`s part towards little Casey, the illusion that she`s mourning and she misses her child, and that that will look better at trial.
But Becky, you were comparing Cindy`s mothering to your mothering. We can`t know what it`s like to have a personality disordered child so I think thank God you have a normal daughter and a normal grandson. Thank God every day for that.
GRACE: Out to Mike Brooks, Mike, what kind of security will be taken tomorrow when she, the tot mom, is transported to the courtroom?
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: You know, it`ll probably be early in the morning, Nancy. So it will be, probably just a little motorcade, they said earlier, with windows blacked out and they probably won`t even know even which car she`s in because she`ll probably go in from the sally port at the -- at the jail right to the courthouse into another sally port and nobody will be able to see her until she pops in the courtroom.
GRACE: Everybody, as we go to break, a very special happy birthday to Georgia friends of the show, Janice and Janet. Aren`t they beautiful?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: Everybody wants me to have answers. I don`t have any answers because I don`t know what`s going on. I have no one to talk to. Jose, when he comes, he`s the only person that I can talk to right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a crime story with characters that could have been plucked from a best-selling murder mystery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meredith Kercher`s lifeless body found half naked lying in a pool of blood with a stab wound on her neck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And three suspects. Amanda Knox, an American student from Seattle, Raffaele Sollecito, an Italian, was Knox`s boyfriend, and Rudy Guede.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities allege that Knox fatally stabbed Kercher in the neck while Knox`s boyfriend held her down. The third suspect is accused of attempting sexual assault.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both defendants have given what prosecutors called confusing and contradictory accounts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But prosecutors have sufficient evidence to make them prime suspects.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Knox and her family say she is innocent and the alleged DNA evidence is not what it seems.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hours after her arrest Knox writes, "I know I didn`t kill Meredith, that`s all I know for sure."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Alessio Vinci joining us from Rome, Italy. He`s the CNN Rome bureau chief.
Alessio, thank you for being with us. What is the evidence alleged against the American girl?
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Well, the evidence is that prosecutors believe they have enough evidence that she was actually at the crime scene the night the murder took place and they believe that they have.
GRACE: Hold on, everybody, our satellite has frozen. While we wait for Alessio to come back us to, I want to go to the aunt of Amanda Knox. This is the 21-year-old American girl on trial for murder, the murder of her British roommate. Janet Huff is with us.
Miss huff, thank you for being with us. Tell me about Amanda.
JANET HUFF, AUNT OF AMANDA KNOX, NIECE ACCUSED OF MURDERING MEREDITH KERCHER: Oh, Amanda is -- she`s a wonderful girl. She`s someone who has never even been accused of hurting somebody`s feelings let alone causing any one any physical harm. She`s an honest, caring, and wonderful person.
GRACE: Miss Huff, what do you make of police stating that she told them, first of all, and correct me if my facts are not -- are not what yours are, I`m getting this from the Italian authorities, that she told them she was there in the apartment, in the cottage when her roommate began screaming and she put her hands over her ears, then later said that was actually a vision or a dream that she had had.
HUFF: Yes, this is again a case of someone not interpreting correctly. She made the statement -- she was asked to imagine what she would do if she was there during the time and she would have heard Meredith in the room with someone else, what would she have done if she would have heard them in there and at that point it was just, was a consensual sex or not and she said wow, if I would have heard my roommate in there with someone else, as I was there, I might have covered my ears.
It was something she was asked to imagine. It was not her statement saying that that`s what happened.
GRACE: And Miss Huff, explain something to me. I know that she told police she was with her boyfriend.
GRACE: At the time of the murder at his place.
GRACE: He is also charged in the murder. Now there`s surveillance video, apparently, of her near her place, near the murder scene that night.
HUFF: No, actually there isn`t. There`s video that shows somebody, but it`s not been confirmed that that`s Amanda.
GRACE: Do police say it`s Amanda?
HUFF: They`re guessing.
GRACE: They`re guessing. OK. Then in your understanding, Miss Huff -- everyone, with me, the aunt of Amanda Knox -- what is their evidence against Amanda?
HUFF: They simply don`t have any evidence against Amanda. There is nothing, there`s lots of guesses. There`s theories, there`s stories.
HUFF: Nothing physical.
GRACE: Back to Alessio Vinci, the CNN Rome bureau chief. Alessio, it is my understanding that police state, Italian police state they have the murder weapon with the defendant, the American girl, DNA on the handle end and the victim`s blood and DNA on the blade end.
VINCI: They claim they have that evidence, but again, if you read carefully the paperwork that the prosecutors have put together it actually doesn`t state a -- with 100 percent certainty that that is, in fact, the murder weapon. They said they have this knife. The forensic evidence suggests that the -- the cut that was -- that killed Meredith Kercher is not incompatible with the actual blade.
Meaning that they don`t have 100 percent match between the blade and the actual wound to her throat. As far as the other evidence, the investigators say that they have found blood stains in the bathroom in which they could see the DNA belonging to Amanda and DNA belonging to Meredith mixed together.
Now, of course, what the, what the defense lawyers are arguing is that this is an apartment that was shared by Kercher and Amanda Knox and they`re saying that technically there is nothing wrong in seeing that kind of DNA evidence mixed together because that`s the bathroom that both women were using.
GRACE: Is it true, Alessio, that police are stating they have a bloody fingerprint of Amanda Knox there in the bathroom?
VINCI: Not that I know of. Not a fingerprint. The only fingerprint that was found was of a third suspect, Rudy Guede. He has already been tried and convicted to 30 years in jail and it was actually a bloody palm print that was found on the pillow in the victim`s room.
GRACE: And a last question regarding the DNA evidence in the forensic evidence. The Italian police claim boyfriend Sollecito`s DNA was found on the victim, Meredith`s bra. What do you know about that?
VINCI: Correct. As a matter of fact, that evidence was introduced later in the game. Originally, the prosecutors placed Raffaele Sollecito at the crime scene because they said they had found.
GRACE: OK, I think Alessio has frozen again.
To Miss Huff, this is Amanda`s aunt, joining us, if your niece was with the boyfriend at the time of the murder, what is his DNA doing on the murder victim`s bra?
HUFF: Well, from what I can understand, as far as how the evidence was collected and this bra strap was moved around quite a bit, that it`s most likely a case of contamination of evidence.
If you watch the crime scene video of how they`re collecting the evidence, it`s been moved, put here, put there, handed off to several people, it`s been contaminated.
GRACE: To trial lawyer, high-profile attorney out of Seattle, Anne Bremner, spokesperson for friends of Amanda Knox, weigh in, Anne.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, SPOKESPERSON, FRIENDS OF AMANDA KNOX: Well -- this is just horrific that the charge against Amanda. There is no physical evidence, Nancy. There`s no bloody fingerprint of hers in the bathroom. There`s nothing, absolutely nothing to tie her to this case and she`s turned 21 in jail in Italy.
GRACE: So you`re saying police, Italian police have made all this up?
BREMNER: No, no, you know what, Nancy, the prosecutor`s been indicted for abuse of office. This is his case and it`s a railroad job from hell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VINCI (voice over): Investigators insisted Knox left a fresh bloodstain in the bathroom and that they found a bloody footprint matching Sollecito`s shoes next to the victim`s body. Knox and Sollecito both deny it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Paul Ciolino, private investigator, consultant to CBS News, who traveled to Italy to investigate the Knox case. What did you learn, Paul?
PAUL CIOLINO, P.I. CONSULTANT, CBS NEWS, TRAVELED TO ITALY TO INVESTIGATE AMANDA KNOX CASE: Well, Nancy, what I learned is there is no evidence. There`s no physical evidence, there`s no eyewitness, there`s no confession, there`s no case.
We have a prosecutor who`s been indicted and is currently on trial for official misconduct, illegal wiretaps, harassing media personnel, et cetera. His own prosecutors in that country have called him a man with a case of delirium. That`s a quote from the prosecutor in his case.
This case would not be prosecuted anywhere else in the world. This is a tragedy. This kid has been in prison for 15 months now. It`s -- it would be funny if it wasn`t so tragic.
GRACE: Paul, why did you go to Italy? Who employed you to do that?
CIOLINO: I was -- I was consulting CBS News to do it. And when we went over there, we had no notions of any kind of what had happened or occurred. But when I go to a crime scene, Nancy, and there`s a 20-unit apartment building overlooking the crime scene with a perfect view of it and I`m there three months later and nobody`s been interviewed by the police or the prosecutor`s office, I started getting a little worried about the quality of the police work.
When I interviewed the chief investigator and he tells me he -- he knew she was guilty because she was eating a pizza, that`s another problem I have.
GRACE: What about it, Mike Brooks?
CIOLINO: I`ve never heard there`s a probably cause. Pardon me?
BROOKS: If what Paul is saying is true, and what Anne, who I have great respect for, if she thinks this case is screwed up, then it sounds like it is screwed up. I mean, if they have not done a canvass of the apartments there for statements, that`s -- unconscionable.
GRACE: We`ll find out what happens at trial. The trial is ongoing right now.
But let`s stop and remember Marine Private First Class Daniel McGuire, just 19, Mashpee, Massachusetts, killed, Iraq. An Eagle Scout, put college on hold to enlist. Loved serving God, country, mission trips with his church, and acting. A mentor to Boy Scouts, dreamed of being a teacher. Leaves behind parents, Daniel and Karen, three brothers.
Daniel McGuire, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.