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Casey Anthony Comes to Court to Hear Motions

Aired January 30, 2009 - 20:00:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. In the desperate search for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthonys` confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide, the little girl`s remains completely skeletonized. This after a utility meter reader stumbles on a garbage bag containing a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair. The killer duct tapes the child`s mouth, then finishes off by placing a child`s heart-shaped sticker over the duct tape, little Caylee`s tiny skeleton double-bagged like she`s trash.

Bombshell. In the last hours, jailhouse authorities transport tot mom Casey Anthony out of a private jail cell and into the courtroom under judge`s orders. But before tot mom sets one foot in court, extreme makeover! Tot mom Casey Anthony shows up looking like a business exec, hair pulled back, business suit, a professional demeanor, a far cry from the Casey Anthony we`ve come to know outside those jailhouse walls. In full shackles, tot mom hears the trial judge shut down the defense`s try at getting prosecutors thrown off the case. Tot mom`s team now gets full access to the crime scene where Caylee`s remains discovered.

And finally, a look at the defense case, their witness list in court today. But it turns out, except for two names, it`s an exact copy of the state`s witness list! Does that mean they literally have no case?

Grandparents George and Cindy Anthony and brother Lee all no-shows in court today. Why? Grandfather George was scheduled for release today, but now still under tight security inside a hospital psychiatric unit likely into the next week, after he allegedly attempts suicide over Caylee`s murder.

And mystery surrounding the tot mom`s defense mouthpiece. A PR firm issuing one statement after the next for the defense refuses to reveal their identity and be connected to tot mom or her defense.


CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I`m so beyond frustrated with all of this that I can`t even swallow right now, it hurts!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wearing a suit and shackled at the ankles, tot mom Casey Anthony smiled at her attorneys as she arrived in court for a hearing today in her own murder case. Anthony was transported to court this morning without incident after the judge ordered yesterday that she must appear at all future hearings.

The judge ruled on a number of motions today filed by the defense, including allowing the defense team to inspect a crime scene where the skull and bones of little Caylee were found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very important that we see the scene. There may be bio evidence (INAUDIBLE) that area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your motion`s granted. You can have access to the scene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense`s attempt to get prosecutors thrown off the case failed as the judge rejected their bid to have the attorney general`s office take over the case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The factual basis for the motion is, as I`ve said, thin, and it`s denied.

CASEY ANTHONY: You guys have given everything to the police. They`re not helping us. It`s obvious. We know their intentions. So I`m sorry, I have helped in every way that I possibly can since the day I got here!


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the courtroom showdown at tot mom Casey Anthony`s murder one trial.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony is public enemy number one. I`m public enemy number two.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tot mom Casey Anthony was hauled into court today for a hearing on motions filed by both the state and the defense in Anthony`s murder trial. With shackles around her ankles, dressed in a business suit, the tot mom appeared calm and collected during the hearing, even smiling and laughing with her attorneys before the judge entered the courtroom.

CASEY ANTHONY: Do you understand how I feel? I mean, do you really understand how I feel in this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony was ordered to be present yesterday after the defense`s attempt to have her waive her appearance was denied. The judge weighed in on many of the motions today, electing to allow the defense access to the crime scene near the Anthony home but refusing to remove the prosecutors from the Casey Anthony murder case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think Ms. Anthony`s right to counsel has been affected. I don`t see an actual prejudice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any searches for a missing child are vital to the defense. We don`t know what was found. We don`t know what was not found.

CASEY ANTHONY: Do you understand my position on this? You guys are not understanding my side on this. I`m just as much a victim as the rest of you.


GRACE: Straight out to Kathi Belich, standing by at the courthouse, in court today. She`s joining us from WFTV. Kathi, tell me about the tot mom`s demeanor in court.

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, her new look you saw, quite frumpy for her actually, wearing an awkwardly-fitting gray suit jacket. She was shackled at the feet when she walked in. But she was wearing a tight bun in the back of her head, very severe-looking. And she actually smiled quite a bit in court today with her attorneys, also when her family`s attorney showed up in court. But then she stifled her smiles. Otherwise, she was very serious and very straightforward.

GRACE: Kathi Belich, what do you mean by "she stifled her smiles"?

BELICH: There was one time when she smiled when her family`s attorney came into the courtroom. She smiled at him, and then she quickly wiped the smile off of her face.

GRACE: Joining me right now, legal correspondent for "In Session," also in court today, joining us from the courthouse, Court TV`s Jean Casarez. Jean, what was your observation of the tot mom in court?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, you know, I was sitting behind her and I noticed she was shackled. Her ankles were shackled not tight enough, though, that she could cross her legs because she did cross her ankles. It looked to me like she had jailhouse blues on the bottom half of her body.

But she was sitting very -- her demeanor was fitting her outfit. But Nancy, legally the judge ordered that she has to be at the hearing. She has to be present. But he made a very big concession because he did not have to allow her to wear that suit jacket. Normally, it`s the prison blues.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers to talk about just that. Joining me, prosecutor out of New York Ana Sega Nikolazi (ph). Ana Sega, thank you for being with us. Also, Joe Episcopo, defense attorney out of Florida jurisdiction, and Mickey Sherman, high-profile lawyer out of New York and author of "How Can You Defend Those People?"

First to you, Mickey Sherman. It was quite a makeover.

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, she`s criticized either way. The bottom line is you want to personalize, you want to humanize. You want to make your client look like a real person, instead of a career criminal. And those prison uniforms -- the perception is that she must be a criminal because she`s wearing the prison uniform. At least let her look like a human being. Try and give her or restore or add a little bit of dignity to her. There`s nothing wrong with that and there`s nothing phony about it.

GRACE: Well, you know, I would agree with you, except, Joe Episcopo, we have all the photos of the real Casey that we`ve come to know outside the jailhouse walls, the one of her at the stripper pole in the push-up bra and the mini-skirt with the stiletto boots, OK? Now, if this were another situation, maybe I could take Sherman`s argument. But give her dignity? I mean, when she`s outside jailhouse walls, she does not dress like Mrs. Frumpett.

JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, a lot of people don`t dress like that outside a court. But that`s not the issue. The reason you dress up...

GRACE: Oh, really? What`s the issue, trying to fake out courtroom watchers?

EPISCOPO: No. The reason you dress out (ph) is when the jury sees you, you want to be seen in civilian clothes and not prison clothes. That`s why you`re allowed to dress out for trial. Anything else is discretionary with the court. And that`s what`s happened here. The judge is avoiding any kind of appellate issue, but there`s really no reason for her to be dressed out in motions, only in front of the jury.

GRACE: To Ana Sega Nikolazi, joining us from our New York studios. Ana Sega, Joe made a very good point. The judge did not have to allow her to be dressed out because, frankly, it is a very big deal over at the jailhouse or at the courthouse to have clothes, go through security. They roust inmates up at 4:00 AM to come to court to be there around 8:30. You have to be there the night before or the morning of to change their clothes or get to the courthouse, get down below the courthouse to give her her clothes. It`s a big production. And under our Constitution, inmates are to be treated no differently than defendants out on bond. Hence, street clothes in front of a jury. But there was no jury, Ana Sega.

ANA SEGA NIKOLAZI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. I mean, Nancy, as I know and you obviously know all too well is often these defendants try to recreate themselves to have a better persona in front of the jury, and I think that`s exactly what we`re seeing here for the benefit of the public, trying to maybe get a little public support behind her, which has obviously been going the other way until now.

GRACE: Out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Weigh in, Marc.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I think people have to remember that this woman lost her child in a horrendous way, that just in the last couple...

GRACE: Whoa! Wait! Wait! Wait~! Marc Klaas, sorry to interrupt you, but it`s not like, Oh, I left my pocket book back at McDonald`s.


GRACE: Let me run back and get it. She lost her child. Let me revisit that first phrase, "she lost her child." Want to rethink that, Marc?

KLAAS: Her child was murdered, and in an outrageously horrible way. Just within the last two weeks, her father attempted suicide in a way that I can completely understand because I had many of the same feelings that George Anthony is going through right now. Yet she was able to show up in the courtroom today and smile. There`s absolutely nothing to smile about or at. She should be in the worst possible mental state of anybody that ever existed, yet she finds a way to break smiles time and again. Crazy.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Baez, your motion to inspect the crime scene...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had made several attempts to contact (INAUDIBLE) and was unsuccessful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That ship has sailed. The minute that crime scene was processed, the evidentiary value of visiting that scene ends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve been advised by our forensic botanists that the plant growth is now growing, and it`s very important that we see the scene because there may be vital evidence to that -- to that area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there are maggots at the scene of the investigation, then this can show, number one (ph) -- the maggots can be examined chemically and find out if they had any kind of drugs inside, which were basically drugs which were present in the body of Caylee and ingested by the maggots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your motion`s granted. You can have access to the scene, any and all access that you need.


GRACE: The tot mom transported from the jailhouse to court today under tight security in full shackles, but after an extreme makeover. No, it was not Casey Anthony in prison blues or Casey Anthony in a push-up bra and a mini-skirt, the way we have seen her outside jailhouse walls, but looking like a business executive in a power suit jacket, her hair pulled back tightly in a bun. There`s Casey Anthony in court today, managing a smile for the camera.

I want to go to Natisha Lance, our producer, in court today, joining us there at the courthouse, as well. Natisha, you were in court. What did you observe?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, I observed, Nancy, the same thing that everybody else is saying, Casey Anthony in that light gray suit jacket, also wearing some navy blue dress pants, shackled at the ankles. Now, she was taking notes during the time that she was in there. She was paying close attention to what her defense attorneys were saying, also to what the judge was saying, and the prosecution.

In the beginning of court, it was a little interesting because Jose Baez was leaned over, talking to the prosecution, even sharing a little bit of a chuckle, which was interesting since he was trying to get them thrown off the case. But it was a pretty somber day in court today, and Casey Anthony was a lot more serious than we have seen her previously, prior to her being in jail.

GRACE: You know, this is certainly not the first time -- to Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist and body language expert -- we`ve seen a makeover in court. But what do you observe from her body language?

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, even though she has a suit on and they have attempted to make her look very professional, her body language gives it away because the smiling, this laughter does not help her any.

GRACE: And take a look -- Joe Episcopo, I`m sure you recall the Menendez twins (SIC), who had expert defense dress them up like two preppy college students, unlike the vicious murderers they are, that killed their parents in cold blood. Look at them! They look like they`re running out to a Sigma Tau Epsilon frat party, or maybe going to study at the library. And of course, there`s Scott Peterson. He changed from his prison blues to look pretty darn good in court. I sat a few feet away from him. Not one day did he come to court not looking like he was on a "GQ" cover.

EPISCOPO: So? I mean, that`s fine. People are allowed to get dressed up for the most solemn and serious occasion that`s going on in their life. I just don`t see...

GRACE: Really?

EPISCOPO: ... such a big deal about this.

GRACE: Hold on. Let`s just examine what Espiscopo just said, the most somber occasion of their life. OK, we`ve got her in court today trying to save her own skin, as opposed to when her daughter was missing and she is in a mini-skirt and a push-up bra? OK, wouldn`t you think that was a more somber day, Joe Episcopo?

EPISCOPO: Well, I`m sure some of those photographs may be presented to the jury for their consideration. But you don`t...

GRACE: No, I`m asking you...

EPISCOPO: ... dress up for court when you...

GRACE: I`m asking you...

EPISCOPO: ... the same way you do when you go out.

GRACE: Your expert opinion was this is the most somber day in her life, why not dress up. The day that my child goes missing, God forbid, would be the day -- the most somber day of my life. But here is Ms. Anthony on the most somber day of her life. So you know, I get it. Dress up for court. I`ll let it go.

Mike Brooks, it`s not unusual, right?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, not unusual, Nancy. I`ve seen thugs, you know, hardened criminals in court. You see them one day, one appearance, they`ll be in their jumpsuit. Next one, they`ll be in a double-breasted suit, you know, so...

GRACE: But you know, Mike Brooks, you never know when the extreme makeover is going to bite you in the neck. I recall one doper, big-time doper I tried for drug trafficking, insisting on wearing his favorite suit. Well, it was about a $2,000 cashmere workout suit. But guess what? It was also the same thing he was wearing in his mug shot. So I think he forgot about that, looked pretty bad in court. So you got to be careful about these makeovers.

BROOKS: It`s like showing -- right, it`s like showing up for a line- up in the same football jersey that you committed the crime in.

GRACE: Yes. You got to watch these makeovers.

Straight out to Natisha Lance. Natisha, tell me -- more importantly than her demeanor, I want to hear about the legal motions. These are the blueprints for what`s going happen at the murder one trial. Hit me.

LANCE: Right. There were three motions that the defense brought forward today. The first one was to inspect the crime scene. Now, Jose Baez said that he wasn`t able to get in contact with the property owner, but the judge did agree and accepted them to be able to go back and search that crime scene. He said that they want their forensic entomologists to be able to take a look at the plant life in that area...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa! Wait~! Wa-wait! Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! Their who? Their entomologist?

LANCE: That`s correct.

GRACE: Because Natisha, I`ve got the defense`s witness list right here, and there`s not an entomologist on the witness list. So who`s the entomologist?

LANCE: You`re right about that, Nancy, but they did say that they want their forensic entomologist to take a look at the indigenous plant life in the area because at this point, it has grown back to a level where they can examine it and possibly make comparisons to whatever the crime scene investigators from the Orange County sheriff`s office took out of that area.

Now, the second thing -- second motion was the Equusearch motion, wanting to obtain those records. The judge just handed out that he is going to deny that motion, not going to have Equusearch hand over the records to Jose Baez and the defense team. And the next motion was to recuse the prosecution, to take them off the case, and the judge also denied that motion.

GRACE: To Jean Casarez. Jean, was there a lot of argument over the motions, or had the judge basically studied these outside the courtroom and had his rulings ready? I understand Linda Kenney Baden cited a case back from the `40s, trying to get the prosecution thrown off the case?

CASAREZ: She did. She argued that motion. There was a fair amount of argument. Everything went very quickly, though, at 8:30 this morning, because I think there was a large docket that the judge had to get to in other cases. So I think he already knew what he was going to do on all those motions.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four thousand searchers came to assist in the finding of Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`d like to (INAUDIBLE) investigate where all of the areas that were searched. There`s several inconsistencies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s somewhat incredulous to suggest that those who are going out in order to find the remains of a child would in some way, shape or form not report finding the remains of a child.


GRACE: The tot mom, Casey Anthony, brought out of a jail cell into the courtroom under judge`s orders this morning, showed up looking like a high-powered business executive. There you can see her hair pulled back tightly in a bun and a gray power suit on top, black slacks on the bottom.

To Kathi Belich. I see her in court. I see her lawyers in court. Where`s her family?

BELICH: Well, her family`s attorney said today, obviously, George is still hospitalized, but her mother -- he said that Cindy can`t win if she comes to court. People chase her around, ask her questions. They`re watching every move. She didn`t feel comfortable coming here. I asked him if he (SIC) was watching the court hearing, because, of course, we ran it live. He said that he did not know, that she might have watched it just to see how Casey looked today.

GRACE: To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist and body language expert. You know, I think if one of the twins are in court, I`d swim a river to get there. What does this mean?

GLASS: Well, Nancy, you know, we`ve seen so much of Cindy Anthony and we`ve seen how she`s manipulated the press and we`ve seen all sides of her...

GRACE: Whoa. I disagree Cindy Anthony has manipulated the press. I think that...

GLASS: Well, I think she...

GRACE: ... she honestly was searching for little Caylee.

GLASS: Well, OK, if that`s your feeling. I picked up a lot of things in terms of looking at her body language, in terms of how she responded to certain things, especially on Larry King. But the bottom line is, you know, she`s dammed if she does and she`s dammed if she doesn`t come to court. And I think that at this point, I`m sure she`s watching it and I`m sure she`s looking at her daughter...

GRACE: OK. To defense attorney Mickey Sherman. In cases like this, don`t you always have the defendant`s family in court front and center?

SHERMAN: Certainly, at the time of the trial. Right now, I agree with Dr. Glass. Why put the mother through this? She`s going through hell.

GRACE: So see her daughter?

SHERMAN: She`s going to find out by watching this show and every other show that...


GRACE: No, to see her daughter in person, to encourage her from a few feet behind her, to be there to support her.

SHERMAN: The problem is...

GRACE: I`m not faulting Cindy Anthony. But I`m saying, What`s the reason? We have heard reports this week specifically from "People" magazine and from the Anthony attorney that they no longer know or believe that she is innocent. They`re not sure.

SHERMAN: Well, we don`t know that. We`re so hung up with the appearance, though. It`s about whether or not she`s guilty, not whether or not she has the coolest outfit on or her parents are there. It`s what she did.

GRACE: I`m talking about whether her parents now believe she`s guilty. That`s my question, Mickey.

SHERMAN: Who knows what they believe. They`re in a no-win situation.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There she is, Casey Anthony, she reported her 2-year- old missing more than a month after her daughter Caylee allegedly disappeared.

UNIDENTFIED MALE: As to these charges, basically includes confession from her that she was lying about the investigation, I would point out that the truth and Ms. Anthony are strangers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was crying as deputies escorted her out of the courtroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony, an Orange County grand jury has issued an indictment and a capeas has been issued on the following charges. First-degree murder, aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child and four counts of providing false information to law enforcement. There is no bond on these charges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After a judge ruled Anthony must show up in person to waive her right to appearance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Anthony, as best you can, raise your right hand for me if you would so I can swear you in?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that your testimony in this matter will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony traded in her jail jump suit for a blazer and pantsuit this morning. Sitting with her hair pulled back in a bun, she sat quietly during a court hearing for her murder trial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I made several attempts to contact the proper officials and I was unsuccessful. I did receive a phone call from someone who claims to be the property owner`s mother and was told that we would not have access to the scene. We have been advised by our forensic botanists that the plant growth is now growing again and it`s very important that we examine the scene because there may be vital evidence in that area.


GRACE: Tot mom in court today for the blueprint of the trial. Motions heard in court. We still don`t have a trial date. But a lot was learned in court today. Joining me there at the courthouse, Kathy Belich from WFTV, legal correspondent from Tru`s "In Session", Court TV`s Jean Casarez and our producer Natishia Lance who is joining us. All three in court today.

I want to go out to Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who helped search for Caylee. Why weren`t the Anthonys in court?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, I think everybody has basically said that. George has got a valid excuse, he`s not very healthy right now. And Cindy, she can`t win, if she don`t go, she gets talked about. And if she does go, she`s going to get hammered by the media. And I think she`s at her wits end as to how to control the media. And I agree with the lady that was here on before, she wants to control the media and she don`t know how to do it. It`s just out of her grasp.

GRACE: To Mike Brooks. I`m hearing all this from all of our experts as to why the family did not show up today. OK, the only one I understand is George Anthony, he`s in the hospital right now, all right, he`s got a pass. But, Mike, you and I have been in enough trials, enough murder trials and serious trials to know that the family is always there. And if everybody else on this panel wants to deny it, that`s fine with me, but it is significant when your family does not show up to support you in court.

BROOKS: Absolutely, and also we know one of her closest siblings, Lee, where is he? He`s nowhere to be found either, Nancy. I mean we go back to the Scott Peterson trial, you and I were both there. Every day, Scott`s parents would come in and out. And they would take questions from the media but they were there to support him. And every time he would come into the court room he would look over to them and smile. They were there to support him.

I don`t understand why she -- why Cindy or Lee, both of them were no-shows.

GRACE: Mike, what I`m trying to say is, I`m not faulting them, maybe the stress is too much, I don`t know what their reason is, or if "People" magazine is correct, if their own lawyer is telling the truth, are they now no longer convinced of her innocence? What do they know that has changed their mind in the last couple of weeks?

Is that why they`re not in court? But on to a different note. I want to go back to Jean Casarez regarding the motions today. I`ve got the defense witness list right here. His whole witness list is taken from the state`s witness list, plus two other people. He doesn`t even include the entomologist that he refers to when he`s arguing to the judge.

JEAN CASAREZ, IN SESSION: Right. Well, I have been studying a little bit and first of all they leave out a very important state`s witness list. They leave out Zenaida Gonzalez, she`s not on the witness list. But in court today we heard that their botanist wants to go out to the scene and furthermore there`s not a botanist on the witness list.

I think it`s all strategy here, Nancy. Because if someone is not on your witness list you`re saying you`re not going to call them in your trial. And here in Florida, attorneys can depose witnesses ahead of time. And so if a person`s name is not on the witness list, then the state attorney`s office would not depose them, correct?

GRACE: Agreed. Back to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, Marc, during your daughter`s murder`s trial, Marc Klaas` daughter was murdered, you couldn`t be dragged away, why did the family not show up?

MARC KLAAS, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: I believe that, first of al they have been through six months of hell. They have been questioned by everybody, everybody`s motivations are being questioned, their actions are being questioned. But quite frankly, Casey`s behavior, her words, her actions have challenged even a mother`s love. And a mother`s ability to believe what she`s saying, and after all of this time of defending Casey and saying that there was a Zenaida involved and they would get the little girl back safely, to then find ultimately that it was all a sham, I think the probably all it takes to keep this family away. Plus the fact that they can`t make a move without being questioned as has been mentioned before without the press following them, hammering them with questions.

GRACE: Marc, Marc, Marc, Marc.

KLAAS: I think probably their best tactic is to remain under the radar at this point.

GRACE: Would you -- Would you miss court if your child were in court?

KLAAS: No, I wouldn`t, but I don`t believe that I would live in a state of dysfunction that would ever put me in a situation quite like the situation that these people are in.

GRACE: I want to go back to the motions today. We are hearing about the defense mouthpiece. A P.R. firm or a public relations individual. Natishia Lance, this person gives one press statement after the next on behalf of the defense, but refuses to give their real name. They do not want to be publicly connected to tot mom or her defense. What`s happening?

LANCE: Well, what`s happening, Nancy is that they`re saying they use a professional name and that they don`t need to give their real name and they cite a number of people who use these professional names, people who are in TV and et cetera.

GRACE: Like who?

LANCE: They didn`t cite any particular names, but they would later, of names of people who use these professional names.

GRACE: But Natishia, a lot of people have stage names, people have stage names, but they don`t keep it secret what their real name is. All right? It`s not like a state secret. We know that`s a stage name. So why are they refusing to reveal their identity and be connected back to the defense?

LANCE: That`s a good question, Nancy, and that`s one that they are not answering at this point. They`re not telling us their real name, they`re also saying when Jose Baez was taken up with the bar, they said that the statements they made about the state had nothing to do with Jose Baez, because they`re not connected with them, and he`s not paying their bills.

GRACE: How do we know that if we don`t know who it is? How do we know the P.R. person isn`t really Jose Baez? We have no idea who the P.R. person is.

LANCE: We don`t know, Nancy. And in this time that I have been down here, I have never once at least to my knowledge seen this P.R. person, I have spoken to him before, but I have never seen him in person. I don`t think anybody down here has ever seen him in person.

GRACE: Back to Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health at Johns Hopkins. Dr. Makary, thank you for being with us. A big bone of contention in court today was the defense access to the scene where Caylee`s remains were found. At this point, what can they hope to get from going to the scene?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, JOHNS HOPKINS: I don`t know what they`re really looking for. There`s an expression in forensic medicine, don`t cast a net that`s too large. They may be looking for some junk or rubbish or some garment fragments or something they could argue would need to be used in the murder. They might be able to cast a net so wide that they might be able to then complicate the story.

GRACE: Well, to me they should have been out there the minute the police closed down their search of the scene, but that didn`t happen. As we go to break, everybody, tot mom in court today.

And I want to wish a very happy 30th wedding anniversary to the best baby nurse in the world, Lani Tan (ph) and her very lucky husband, Ben Tan Jr., here they are with their very beautiful children, Blanche Kimberly and Vinsom (ph) Tan. They plan to celebrate together with a mass at church and a party afterwards. Congratulations Ben and Lani.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Equisearch founder Tim Miller says people are coming in from as far away as Canada and Puerto Rico to join the thousands of volunteers in this weekend`s search.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There may be witnesses among some of these volunteers who searched at or near that specific area. We don`t know what was found. We don`t know what was not found.


GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Mike, do you remember what happened the night the police finished processing the scene where Caylee`s remains were found?

BROOKS: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, right away, there was a motion that said, hey, we want to come out there and see it right while it`s going on. They said no, but the judge said as soon as the FBI and Orange County and the medical examiner are done, you can come in and examine everything that they have already gone through and looked at. They said fine, we`ll do that. They never showed up. The defense team never showed up. Now they file another motion that they`re going to go out there and look now? They`re not going to find anything of any evidentiary value whatsoever.

GRACE: Jean Casares with Tru, Jean, what are they doing? What is their strategy? They had a chance to inspect the scene and they didn`t show up.

CASARES: I think they have a big strategy. I remember Tim Miller from Equisearch saying on your show that he went out there right after December and found that there was a concave area of ground where those remains were and it was all brown leaves so that the remains had been there for a long time. That won`t be there anymore. It will be green. There won`t be that concave, there will be a different scene, I think to go with the defense theory that possibly the remains were not there for very long.

GRACE: And so you`re saying they would bring in a photo of today`s scene?

CASARES: Well, and then you have an issue of credibility, because a witness will take the stand saying they had gone a month and a half later to the scene, of course there would be a difference right there. But obviously they had a chance to go there and they haven`t gone.

GRACE: To the lawyers, Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi in New York, Joey Piscopo in Florida, Mickey Sherman in New York. Mickey, what`s their strategy here or do they have one?

MICKEY SHERMAN, ATTORNEY: It`s not so co-incidental that their witness list as the same as the state. What the best they can hope for is that they`re going make the state`s witnesses their witnesses by showing how defective their investigations was and how skewered their opinions may be. So it`s not unusual to have the same witnesses.

GRACE: Piscopo, come on, they even refer to a botanist but he`s not on their list.

JOEY PISCOPO, ATTORNEY: Yeah, because they`re not going to call him. But as far as this scene inspection, my understanding, isn`t the private property owner refusing to allow them to come on the scene and that`s why they need the court order?

GRACE: It`s my understanding that they were allowed on the scene immediately after it was processed with the agreement of the property owner and they never showed up. So what`s their strategy, Anna-Sigga?

ANNA-SIGGA NICOLAZZI, PROSECUTOR: Exactly. I think they`re realizing they should have taken it when they had the opportunity. As soon as that crime scene was open December 22, they said no thank you. So I think this is potentially a creation of some sort of plausible explanation as why they want to be there now. So who knows what they`re doing.

GRACE: To Kathi Belich, WFTV in court today. Kathy, did we hear anything at all about when the funeral is going to be?

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: No. I talked with the Anthony`s attorney about that this morning, he says he has no more information about that at this point and Jose Baez would not discuss any timetable for a second autopsy. He said he wasn`t going to discuss it so no new information about any of that.

GRACE: And back to Natishia Lance, by the courthouse. Equisearch, the volunteer group that looked exhaustively with Tim Miller for little Caylee has taken center stage. The defense subpoenaing or trying to get all of their records of all the volunteers that searched for Caylee. Why?

LANCE: Well, Nancy, apparently it seems that they think that Equisearch may have searched in that area, but the attorney for Equisearch was saying that there`s no evidence that says they were in this exact area where the remains were found. And not only that, but Jose Baez did not file this motion correctly.

GRACE: And let me ask you this, Jean Casares, we know the defense has filed a motion for the seal records that show DNA parentage, in other words who`s the daddy. We know who the mommy is. First of all, I would suggest to the defense just turn around and ask the client who the daddy is. But apparently that`s not working. Was that addressed today?

CASARES: No, this is a motion that has been filed but no date for argument. But it`s been filed by Jose Baez, it`s something they found in the search in the family home in July, it`s now in possession of the Sheriff`s Department. But it`s a parentage report, DNA parentage report, yes.

GRACE: And to figure out the parentage, Dr. Marty Makary, again we know who the mom is, but you`ve got to have somebody to compare the DNA to. So obviously, does she know who the father is? And specifically, according to a local report. They want information on former fiance Jesse Grund. Don`t you have to have somebody to compare it to in order to make a match?

MAKARY: He or one of these potential fathers would need to actually submit DNA in a validated fashion, that is in a laboratory supervised in order for there to be an exact match. And they can get an exact match, but there has to be a donor.

GRACE: To Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi, Anna, I`ll tell you what`s going on right here, between the DNA parentage request, trying to get something on Jesse Grund and a request for all the volunteers that searched for Equisearch, they`re going for the SOD defense, some other dude did it. They`re going to try to say it was whoever the biological father is, or one of those volunteers, somehow being involved, moving the body, saying the body wasn`t there at the time of the search, something.

NICOLAZZI: Absolutely, Nancy, they`re looking for something that can give some amount of credence to, whichever way they`re going to try to finger point to try to get the focus away from the client and the mountain of evidence that`s against her.

GRACE: Well, you`ve got to hand it to them, they are working, they`re trying to come up with a defense for the tot mom. Right now, everyone, CNN Heroes.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Heroes.

CYNDI LAUPER, MUSICIAN: A hate crime sends terror through a community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shepard was left for dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have never been attacked like this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty two swastikas were found.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just a random act of ignorance and violence.

LAUPER: You could die just because of who you are.

I`m Cyndi Lauper and my hero is Cathy Nelson because she fights for the rights of all people, straight and gay.

CATHY NELSON, CNN HERO: Lesbian and gay, bisexual and transgender equality is really the civil rights issue of this generation.

I`m a lesbian and I see the issues very personally.

In 1989 I went to work for the Human Rights Campaign.

This looks great.

Events are a vital part of what we do. It`s raising the visibility of the issues we`re working on.

Cindy`s 2007 True Colors tour was an amazing opportunity to educate about the upcoming hate crimes bill in Congress.

LAUPER: She had this whole idea of we could take a postcard and send it to your congressman.

NELSON: Becoming an activist starts with one simple step.

LAUPER: We`ve got to erase hate. (Inaudible) Open your eyes and let you know about things that are going on right now that we could change.

NELSON: So what drives me is fighting for fairness and equality.

LAUPER: Cathy has helped a lot of people and don`t take any doubts for it.

ANNOUNER: Tell us about your hero at




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Travolta`s son Jet in the ambulance.

GRACE: To the tune of $25 million because he wanted his son treated somewhere else? I`m not -- there`s got to be more to it than that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, think of what this document is. It`s a refusal to transport. Apparently John signs it. It looks like a callous decision of a parent who says I don`t want my son treated for this emergency situation.

GRACE: Uh-uh.

There are reports that George Anthony has confided to other people he believes she may in fact be a killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going back to when we were in the house the one night that George, another time he snapped is when he said I can`t take living a lie anymore. I can`t take it anymore.


GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Private Janelle King, 23, Merced, California, killed, Iraq. An Army medic. Dreamed of being an EMT. Loved Food Network, playing board games with younger brother and sister, playing violin, cooking, favorite recipe, grilled salmon with hollandaise sauce. Leaves behind parents, Brian and Janecia (ph), sister Alexandra, brother, Brian. Janelle King, American hero.

Thanks to our guests and especially to you for being with us. And tonight, a special goodnight from the New York control room. Good night everybody, goodnight Rosie, Stacey, Chris. Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern and until then good night friend