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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Subpoenas Issued for Anthony Family in Lawsuit; JonBenet Ramsey Case Reopened
Aired February 03, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a stunning new twist in the mega battle over funeral services for Caylee Anthony. Could Casey Anthony, sitting behind bars, accused of her daughter`s murder, use a video hookup to mourn little Caylee`s death with her family? A news report suggests that could be the only way for them to mourn together as a family.
Also, word that Casey will take the Fifth to provocative questions like "Did you kill your daughter?" in a lawsuit filed by Zenaida Gonzalez, but now lawyers for the woman who says Casey ruined her life want to question brother Lee along with Cindy and George.
Also, who is Todd Black? It`s turns out the spokesman for Casey Anthony`s defense attorney is three people who use the name on a rotation basis. How does that reflect on defense attorney Jose Baez? And who is this mystery family who reportedly took an interest in this case and is paying this P.R. company?
Plus, it`s been a decade since the famous 6-year-old beauty pageant contestant, JonBenet Ramsey, was mysteriously murdered in her Boulder home. Now the investigation into the case is being reopened. We`ll tell you why.
And the Dark Knight`s dark side exposed. Christian Bale, a.k.a. Batman, goes berserk on the set of an upcoming film.
CHRISTIAN BALE, ACTOR: Give me a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) answer!
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What caused this manic meltdown of one of Hollywood`s biggest stars? We will play more of this astounding tape.
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, more bizarre twists in the Caylee Anthony murder case. Casey Anthony, facing trial for her daughter`s murder, may now be included in a private Anthony family service for little Caylee. Not in person, as her parents George and Cindy had hoped, but by video visitation. Has anyone ever heard of a private recession of this kind? Wild.
A source tells WESH in Orlando that a hookup could be in the works. If it does take place, will the tape be released to the public? That`s my question.
Plus, Casey pleading the fifth in the civil lawsuit brought by Zenaida Gonzalez, but that is not stopping Zanny`s lawyer from going after Lee Anthony and Casey`s parents. What does Lee know, if anything, about the murder? And would he spill the beans if he did know anything? Lee`s attorney will join me for some questions and some answers of our own.
And what about this? A public relations firm in damage control mode. Could they be making matters worse for Casey`s defense team? We will investigate.
There is a whole lot to talk about tonight, and I want to hear from you. Give me a holler: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.
First, let me bring in my fantastic expert panel: Thomas Luka, Lee Anthony`s attorney; Stacy Honowitz, Florida prosecutor; Nicole DeBorde, criminal defense attorney and former D.A.; and Rozzie Franco, reporter for WFLA 540-AM.
Rozzie, what is the very latest?
ROZZIE FRANCO, WFLA REPORTER: Well, the very latest right now, Jane, is you said it. They`ve issued a subpoena for Lee Anthony, Cindy Anthony and George Anthony in that civil suit filed against Casey Anthony by Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. And this is probably the first time that we`re going to hear anything from Lee Anthony.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s going to be quite a shocker, and we`re going to get to Thomas Luka in just a moment to dissect that whole aspect of this case, but I`ve got to talk about this video hookup.
I have never heard anything like it, Stacy Honowitz. Now, what`s fascinating about this is we know that Casey has not been given the OK to leave jail to attend a funeral service. We know that the family cannot go into the jail to have a funeral service and just huddle behind bars with Casey.
So the possibility now is being raised of a video hookup to allow them to have, through a video feed, literally, and an audio feed, some kind of a family funeral or memorial or tribute to the little girl. Have you ever heard of anything like this?
STACY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, I have heard of certain requests by certain attorneys to the judge. I`ve never heard of something like this, about wanting the person who`s accused of the murder, she wants now the time to have this private grieving session with her parents.
What you have to think in all of this is who`s paying for all of this? Now she has a video feed. Taxpayers are responsible for whatever goes on in the jails. You pay for all those kinds of things.
And I, quite frankly, don`t think the judge is going to allow this to go on. I don`t know where the leak is from. I don`t know if he`s already filed a motion to that regard, asking for this kind, but I`ve never heard of it before.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s pretty fascinating, the speculation over how the family and the public will finally mourn the death of Caylee. This latest development, that it could be in the form of a video reunion, is really bizarre. Could it look something like this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, CHARGED WITH MURDERING DAUGHTER: I can`t do anything from here. I don`t have access to the Internet. I can`t make phone calls. I can`t go anywhere. I`ve already told you, Mom. I told you everything.
CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve thought about everything that you told me over the last month.
CASEY ANTHONY: You thought about stuff and you`ve done what you can. I`m sorry, that`s all I can do from the only knowledge that I have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Nicole DeBorde, what`s fascinating about that is that I, in my naivete, not having spin a lot of time. I`ve been in some jails but not a whole lot lately. And I don`t want to be, by the way. I thought they were kind of looking at each other through some sort of glass window.
But it turns out that there is a video visitation center that`s not even physically connected to where Casey is, and visitors who want to speak to people behind bars go to the video visitation center. And they sit in a little -- it`s like a videoconference call. I didn`t realize that, and that`s, I think, what they may be talking about when they`re talking about this video hook-up service.
NICOLE DEBORDE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It sounds like that`s right, and certainly, that videotape situation where you look at an inmate through a video as opposed to in person is unique. That`s not something that happens in every single jail across the country.
But it does appear to be the situation there, and that may be exactly what they`re asking for. If she can attend the funeral by watching it on video, and that may be what they`re talking about.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Rozzie, all of the other tapes of them having their visitations have been released. So could this funeral, then, be released to the public? What`s the likelihood of that?
FRANCO: Absolutely. I mean, the media can make a request for them, and that could very well come out. And I`m sure it would come out if they did that. So...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow! That, to me, again, everything about this case, one of the reasons it`s so fascinating is that everything about this case is so radically different from the average case.
Let`s talk about the fact that Casey Anthony has now said, through her civil attorney, that she`s going to be taking the fifth in the Zenaida Gonzalez lawsuit against her. Twenty-nine pointed questions, things like did you kill your daughter, or do you know who killed your daughter were presented to her, and she is going to take the fifth.
Stacy Honowitz, how does that work? Does she literally write down, "I refuse to answer this question on the grounds that it may incriminate me"?
HONOWITZ: Yes, that`s exactly right. I mean, basically, what the lawyers are going to get out of this is what her name is. She`s not going to answer any of those questions, and that`s exactly right. That`s what she does: "I refuse to answer this question on the grounds that it may incriminate me."
She`s never going to answer whether or not she killed her daughter or asked the nanny any of the pointed questions that are, you know, plausible for the criminal case. So they`re not going to get anything based on any of these questions.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I saved the best for last. Thomas Luka, Lee Anthony`s attorney, thank you for your patience. I want to ask you, now because she is taking the Fifth, they`re setting their sights in the civil case on your client, brother Lee, and they have set him up for a deposition on February 27.
Is he going to attend that deposition? And what will he say to some of these pointed questions like what did Zenaida Gonzalez, Zanny the nanny, look like?
THOMAS LUKA, LEE ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, he will comply with the subpoena as is the law in Florida. Every person must comply with subpoena.
As to your second question, Jane, the answers that I think the attorney, Mr. Morgan is looking for are not going to be able to be provided by Mr. Anthony. He has never -- he has never met Miss Gonzalez. He doesn`t know what she looks like. He has never even heard her name prior to this particular case -- prior to the media actually being -- exposing the name to the public.
So he`s not going to be able to give the -- I don`t think he`s going to be able to give the -- excuse me, the civil attorneys what they`re looking for.
HONOWITZ: Well, I want to...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Except that he -- go ahead.
HONOWITZ: Well, what I was going to say is it might not even be just those questions directed at him. They might be back-dooring it and asking him what Casey Anthony told her brother about the nanny, what kind of information he received from Casey. So I mean...
LUKA: But that`s the whole point. He doesn`t -- but he doesn`t have that information. He doesn`t -- he never -- Casey, as far as he knows, as far as he recalls, Casey never mentioned the nanny/babysitter, and the way he phrased it, it was a babysitter. That she was never really mentioned by name that he can recall. And he never met the woman. So how -- whatever information he can give to civil attorneys is not going to be useful for the defamation case.
HONOWITZ (?): Jane, that doesn`t make any sense to me.
FRANCO: Nobody -- nobody knows who Zanny the nanny is. Cindy doesn`t even know. The woman that was so protective over Caylee and knew everything about her doesn`t even know who this mystery babysitter is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But this is one of the reasons why, Nicole DeBorde, everybody`s saying that this family is in denial. Apparently, Cindy, according to a supervisor, had repeatedly mentioned Zanny the nanny to her, yet never met Zanny the nanny. Now we`re hearing that the brother never even heard of Zanny the nanny.
I mean, what`s going on in this family? Can you just make something up, and everybody`s going to believe it when you`re Casey Anthony, which is the story that really adds up to zero? It makes no sense. The authorities say Zanny the nanny doesn`t exist.
DEBORDE: Well, and the reality is that this deposition, even if he gives answers like "I don`t know. I`ve never heard that before. I don`t know what you`re talking about," those answers lock him in for the future, just in case they wanted to try to change their story or try to refresh their recollection as to what they may, in fact, remember.
"I told -- I told my brother exactly what the situation was years ago or days ago or months ago," and if he denies that in the deposition he`s locked in. So it actually, even with negative answers like "I don`t know," may have accomplished more than -- than you think.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Thomas, how...
HONOWITZ: He makes a great witness -- he makes a great witness -- honestly, he makes a great witness for the prosecution if they choose to call him in a criminal case, because everything that she said, everything she`s put out in the media about this nanny, is not true. The brother didn`t even know anything about it.
LUKA: Keep in mind, Mr. Anthony did not live with the family this whole time, as Casey and Cindy and George did with Caylee in the same house. So...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Still, if she were dropping off this baby with Zanny the nanny for such a long period of time you`d think that the brother would have at least heard the name once. None of this adds up.
But listen, hang on. We`re just getting started, and I have a quick reminder. "Nancy Grace" will have the very latest on the Caylee Anthony case. She is up immediately following this program at 8 p.m. Eastern.
And of course, we`ll have much more here on ISSUES. Do you think key information will come out of Lee Anthony`s deposition? Call 1-877-JVM- SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297. And let me know.
Plus, a little later upon, we have the shocking case of Christian Bale going ballistic on the set of his latest movie. Here is a sneak peek.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALE: I want you off the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) set, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry.
BALE: No, don`t just be sorry. Think for one (EXPLETIVE DELETED) second. What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) are you doing? Are you professional or not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I am.
BALE: Then why (EXPLETIVE DELETED) walk around and rip down -- no, shut the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up, Bruce! No, no! Don`t shut me up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: I anticipate it will be soon, because we want to -- we, you know -- we feel our client is innocent, and we want to have her day in court. She wants her day in court, and I know that`s a hard thing for everyone to believe here, but she is innocent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. That was Jose Baez, Casey Anthony`s lawyer, vigorously defending his client before the court of public opinion.
I`m taking your calls, and we`ve got our expert panel. We`re going to go to the phone lines in just a moment.
But first, breaking news just in as we speak. WESH-TV reporting that Zanny -- Zanny the nanny, or Zenaida Gonzalez, I should say, because she doesn`t want to be associated with Zanny -- Zenaida Gonzalez, OK. Her lawyers say they`re going to videotape the deposition of the family and release that to the public.
And Thomas Luka, I`m sure you`re not going to be very happy to hear this little piece of breaking news. He plans on inviting the press to the deposition as they take place, to listen in. Your reaction?
LUKA: First of all, again, what -- I don`t see why the press -- what the press is going to get out of it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What?
LUKA: They`re -- the press is going to sit in a deposition room that is approximately 10 by 10 and crowd in there while an individual gives his testimony? That`s the most unheard-of thing I`ve ever -- I`ve never heard of such a thing. But I don`t even think that the judge will -- I don`t even think that the office -- the judge would even allow such a thing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. But what about releasing it to the public, Stacy Honowitz? I have done stories as a reporter on depositions that were leaked to me as a journalist. Video depositions.
HONOWITZ: I`ll tell you one thing, Jane, that what`s happening now is they`re setting up a fabulous motion for a change of venue, because all this pretrial publicity they we`ve been talking about on your show, on a number of shows, about the case. And now adding in the defamation case with Zenaida Gonzalez is only going to have people say that they`re -- she`s never going to get a fair and impartial jury, because of all the things that are going on, that the civil case is now tied into the criminal case.
So are things leaked? They`re leaked all the time. You`re a journalist and you know that. You can`t always rein everybody in like we`d want to. And in this case, that`s what he`s telling you ahead of time. That`s what he`s going to do. That`s his prerogative.
LUKA: Yes, but there`s a difference between leaking something and holding a press conference.
HONOWITZ: I don`t think a judge is going to -- quite frankly, I don`t think the judge is going to allow the press to sit in on the deposition. I don`t know what grounds he has for that. He`s got to make a show the court that it`s necessary for them to be sitting in on this. And I don`t think it`s going to happen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Certainly, he could release the video to the public.
HONOWITZ: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s no law against that.
HONOWITZ: There is -- there`s no law against it. But as far as them sitting in while this deponent is being deposed -- or, for the general public, that means while the person is being -- the witness is being questioned -- I don`t think the judge is going to allow it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
HONOWITZ: You have to have a showing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joyce in Florida, you`ve been very patient, ma`am. Your question or thought?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Many months ago, it was reported that Casey`s own mother, Cindy, had told someone that she believed her daughter was a sociopath. So my question is, if Casey is examined and found to be a sociopath, could her lawyers use that as a defense, that Casey is mentally ill?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excellent question. Nicole DeBorde?
DEBORDE: Well, it depends, and that`s always the answer you get from a lawyer, right? But the reality is that, if she knew that what she was doing was wrong, then no, it cannot be a defense, even if she is a sociopath.
If she did not know that she -- if she did now know what she was doing was wrong, it could possibly develop into a defense. And that`s where the line sort of is drawn. Did they know the difference between right and wrong? That`s the question.
HONOWITZ: Then it belongs a battle of the experts at that point.
LUKA: Sociopathy is not an acceptable insanity -- a form of the insanity defense in the state of Florida.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well, she said she didn`t do it. She`s actually pleaded "not guilty," and her attorney has said that he believes she is innocent.
Cheryl in Nevada, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Hi. I just had a quick question: if the father of Caylee is discovered, does he have the legal right to Caylee`s body? And can he, you know, have the funeral above the grandparents?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacy?
HONOWITZ: Well, that`s a very interesting question, because we don`t know what kind of situation they entered into when it was discovered that he was the father of the child. In other words, he might have given up his parental rights at that point.
If, in fact, he`d given up his parental rights or he severed those ties, then he`s want entitled, but if it is found that he is the father and that there was an agreement that he wasn`t going to be in this child`s life, he has every right to go into the court and say, "I`m the legal custodian. I`m the father." And then he`s got rights that flow from there.
So we really need to see what will happen prior to all of this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Want to get back to this issue of Lee`s relationship with Casey. I want to look at this clip from a jailhouse visit between Casey and Lee. We`re going to talk about their relationship on the other side of this. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY: I can tell you is my No. 1 focus is on Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
L. ANTHONY: My second focus is you.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
L. ANTHONY: My third is Mom.
CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.
L. ANTHONY: Then Dad, and then me.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
L. ANTHONY: OK. So I want to -- and I don`t give a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) about Baez, and I don`t give a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) about anything else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Everybody wonders why Cindy and George didn`t pick up the weird discrepancies around Zanny the nanny, and they believe the story that others people found totally ridiculous. But what about Lee? I mean, isn`t he more young and likely to be more savvy and pick up on the lies his sister was telling?
Let me -- let me address that to Thomas. You`re his attorney. We all know that it simply is hard to pull the wool over another sibling`s eyes.
LUKA: Well, again, are you asking me to speculate on what Mr. Anthony might have thought at the time? I mean...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But he knows -- he must know, I would think, and more than just the average -- what the average public knows about what Casey was up to. For example, in the month before she reported the child missing.
LUKA: Well, obviously, it`s already -- it`s already been proven that she`s not been telling -- that she`s not told the truth.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right.
LUKA: Lee knew at the time -- knew and now knows that she wasn`t telling the truth. So it does -- I mean, exactly what context are we talking about here? What -- I mean, I`m a little confused as to what exactly you`re asking.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Well, we`re out of time for now, but what I`m basically saying is that usually a brother and sister have a very tight relationship, unless they`re at odds, which they didn`t seem to be and that they talk and that they share things. And that`s just my point, is that you`d think he`d know a little bit more than what he`s saying right now.
But I want to thank all of you, and we will have more on the Casey Anthony case in just a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF MARK BECKNER, BOULDER POLICE DEPARTMENT: I`ve been coming up on 12 years. There have been changes in technology, as I mentioned earlier. Certainly, there was the additional DNA. And that`s always been a question that`s been out there, is how do you answer that DNA question?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is, perhaps, the most famous unsolved murder case in U.S. history: the gruesome killing of JonBenet Ramsey. Now 12 years later the case has been re-opened.
It was the day after Christmas of 1996 when the beautiful 6-year-old pageant queen was found brutally murdered inside her Colorado home. Her killer has never been found.
The Boulder City Police Department announced yesterday it will assign a special task force devoted to finding the killer, and they hope new technology may finally crack the case.
I am joined now by Paul Ihander, a reporter at News Radio 850 KOA in Denver.
Paul, you have followed this tragedy from the very beginning. Bring us up-to-date. Why is this case being reactivated now?
PAUL IHANDER, REPORTER, NEWS RADIO 850 KOA: Well, Jane, this is one of those cold cases that has just stumped police and D.A.s. This is one of those things that has been several months in the making when we brought on a new district attorney in Boulder County.
He had decided to kind of take the reins over from the other district attorney, who didn`t really want to have Boulder police involved and, as a matter of fact, pulled the rug out from the Boulder Police Department and kind of moved focus from an intruder, the inside job, to an intruder, and that`s what the -- the new police chief is kind of dealing with.
He has a -- he has a big huge interest in the case because back in 1989, he was one of the lead investigators. He, as a matter of fact, took over as lead investigator before the new district attorney came on and before he became police chief.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s interesting, but it`s a little bit inside baseball. We know that the police department has been under a lot of criticism in the past for their handling of this investigation because they seemed to have their blinders on and they were focus so much on the family of JonBenet Ramsey.
Ultimately, the family was cleared, unfortunately, not before Patsy Ramsey died, sadly, of cancer, but because they found male DNA on the victim`s clothing. And that`s what they`re trying to use to reanalyze to get a break in this case.
Tell us about that male DNA. How many places on the clothing does it pop up?
INHANDER: It pops up in several locations, Jane. And one of the things is that they hope, by reopening this cold case and looking through 30,000 pages of documents in an incredible heap of evidence -- 29,000 is what we`ve been told -- that they might be able to get some of this DNA evidence.
You know, they point back to Gary Ridgway, the Green River Killer, that being solved in 2001, 19 years, or 14 years after they had originally taken a hair and other samples from Ridgway. They point to that as one of those kind of breakthrough moments. Boulder County hoping, or at least Boulder police hoping they can get themselves a little bit of luck in this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the DNA has already been used to, for example, clear that nut job, John Mark Karr, who said that -- basically insinuated he was responsible, because he was obsessed with this little girl. They were getting ready to file a case against him. And then they did the DNA test, and it turns out he doesn`t match, and he was let go. Right?
INHANDER: Right. And that`s what they`re hoping. They don`t want a repeat of that situation. Nobody here in Colorado wants to go back to those 12 roller coaster days of 2006 when we all had to deal with John Karr...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
INHANDER: ... did he or didn`t he? You know, even the family was in position to say, "Hey, he didn`t even do it." There was so much speculation at that point, as well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are fantastic. I hope you come back. Sorry to have to cut you off there. But please, join us soon.
Batman goes ballistic. We`re going to tell you about it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, Casey did you kill your daughter? That`s just one of 29 provocative questions Casey Anthony`s lawyers say she won`t answer, but her family might. A civil case is cranking up the pressure on Casey Anthony, trying mercilessly to expose her as a liar.
Now that their efforts are being met by Mr. Fifth Amendment, the focus shifts to her brother, mother and father. Do attorneys think they can they help prove Casey is a head case?
We`re back with more on the Caylee Anthony murder case. Still with me, Thomas Luka, the attorney for Casey`s brother, Lee Anthony and Rozzie Franco from WFLA 540 AM. The phone lines are still lit up.
A very patient lady named Donna from New York; your thought or question, ma`am?
DONNA FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey.
DONNA: Correct me if I`m wrong. In this country we believe that you`re innocent until proven guilty. Then how can they keep Casey from attending her own daughter`s funeral? Right now she is considered innocent. Do they have the right to keep her away from something as personal as her own daughter`s funeral?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, that`s an excellent question. Thomas Luka?
THOMAS LUKA, ATTORNEY FOR LEE ANTHONY: Well, technically they can because she is currently in the custody of the Orange County`s Sheriff`s Department. Even though she is innocent until proven guilty, her bond has been revoked.
She is being held on a no-bond status at this point. She can petition the judge to be let out and to go to her funeral, however, that`s enormous cost that I don`t think she can actually bear. Because of that I don`t think they`ve even asked for that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I find it fascinating that she can have a very, very high-profile dream team of defense experts and defense attorneys and not afford that. She seems to be affording a lot of things and people don`t really know how she`s affording them and that kind of brings us to another subject.
There`s much ado over a public relations firm that`s been handling media inquiries on behalf of Casey`s defense attorney Jose Baez. The latest controversy, PR man, Todd Black is apparently just a front.
This quote is from a statement issued by his firm, Press Corps Media. Now, here`s a quote. "We assigned security names for insurance and security purposes as with "Todd Black" -- a security name which has been used in rotation by three different staff members on this case."
Now, first of all, I want to go to Rozzie Franco and ask you have you ever talked to this Todd Black who now turns out to be one of three different people and did you get different voices when you called at different times?
ROZZIE FRANCO, WFLA 540 AM: Jane, no. I didn`t get different voices. I speak to Todd Black on a daily basis and it`s very fun they we`re talking about this right now because Todd actually called me and he says, "Rozzie, I don`t know if you know the latest, but there are reports now out that I am not the Todd Black that people are claiming that I am." People are claiming that I am this Gill Cabbet character, but I am Todd Black." And I said, "Ok, Todd, where did they get this from?" He just kind of goes on and talks about it. It`s an entire, convoluted story.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s give him some credit for actually issuing that press release and saying what the real story is.
Is it advisable, Tom, for the defense attorney to use three people wrapped up in one?
LUKA: I don`t think it is. I don`t think it`s actually advantageous at all to use any sort of PR firm to try and get your message out there. I think that`s clearly an attempt to try the case in the media which they shouldn`t be doing in the first place. They should be trying this case in the courtroom.
Why they have a PR firm at all or some third party spokesman is mystifying to me as a criminal defense attorney.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you make a very good point and that was exactly what the famous attorney Tom Mesereau said to us when he was on his broadcast. "Don`t be dealing with the media, prepare your case. Lock yourself up somewhere and prepare your case instead of dealing with these distractions because you can deal with the distractions and the trial comes up and boom, are you going to be ready?"
Thomas Luka and Rozzie Franco, thank you so much as always for your insights.
And don`t forget Nancy Grace up at 8:00 p.m. And she will have the very latest on the Caylee Anthony murder case. You don`t want to miss it.
Now I want to turn to another story we have been following very closely; the trial of 21-year-old American college student, Amanda Knox, resumes in Italy this week. Knox is accused of killing her British roommate, Meredith Kercher, after Kercher allegedly refused to take part in a ritualistic sex game.
Knox`s friends and family do not believe the accusations and like Amanda herself they insist that she is innocent. They often visit her in her cell in Perugia, Italy and talk to her by phone. They say the real Amanda Knox would never be involved in a twisted sex game or a murder.
I am very happy to be joined now by two of Amanda Knox`s aunts, Christina Hague (ph) and Janet Huff (ph). Thank you both for joining me tonight. I know this has to be very difficult and awkward for you. And I appreciate you having the courage to step forward and speak on behalf of Amanda.
Janet, you just got back from Italy. You met with Amanda behind bars. Across Italy and indeed across all of Europe, Amanda is being portrayed as this sex fiend killer. Tell us about the Amanda you know and what she`s really like.
JANET HUFF, AUNT OF AMANDA KNOX: Actually, Christina was there more recently. I came back on the 14th and Christina just came back probably just a couple of days ago.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, tell me what she`s really like?
HUFF: She is not who she is being portrayed to be. She is not someone who has every hurt anybody`s feelings let alone caused anybody any body harm. She is just not what she`s being portrayed as.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I guess I am referring to the scandalous aspects. For example, there`s this book in Italy that`s a best-seller that is purportedly based on some of her diaries and it`s filled with all of these sexual tidbits. Is this a bunch of lies?
HUFF: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And if these are a bunch of lies, should she be taking legal action because they`re painting a very scandalous picture of this young woman and her sex life.
CHRISTINA HAGUE, AUNT OF AMANDA KNOX: And we are taking legal action. There is a current lawsuit pending. Her privacy has been violated and all the information published in that book is false or exaggerated.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re suing the author of that book?
HAGUE: Yes, we are suing the author, we are suing the publicist and we`re suing the paper.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, we`re taking a look at the three defendants in this case. There is Amanda then we also saw -- and it would be good to see it again -- her then boyfriend and then we saw a third man. That man who has already been convicted that you`re looking at and he has been sentenced to 30 years.
Now, if you`re saying that Amanda wasn`t involved, who is involved? Her ex-boyfriend who you saw right there? This other man who was a native of West Ivory? What happened?
HAGUE: Rudi Guede has been charged and sentenced to 30 years for participating in a crime. Amanda and Raffaele are completely innocent. They were home that evening together enjoying a very quiet evening and they had nothing to do with this.
HUFF: All of Rudi`s evidence is all over the room, his DNA is on the victim, his finger prints and her blood are all over the place. He is the one who is obviously the culprit.
HAGUE: And the information that`s being reported out there that there was Amanda`s bloody fingerprint in the bathroom, that is completely false. There is no evidence of Amanda there.
HUFF: I don`t think she was there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What about the knife? What about the knife?
HUFF: What about the knife? The knife has already been thrown out because A, it does not fit the size of the wounds that were made on Meredith and, B, yes her DNA is on the handle. It`s a cooking knife that she`s used at Raffaele`s house, but the DNA that`s on the tip of that blade is a less than one percent match to Meredith. It could be more yours than mine or hers.
HAGUE: And the DNA is not on the tip of the blade. It is not blood DNA. It is -- the DNA is on the back side of the blade.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what you`re saying is that she used a cooking knife and it was in the home of her then boyfriend. And they went to that house and took the cooking knife and said that was the murder weapon when it doesn`t match up and it wasn`t at the scene of the murder.
HUFF: That is what the prosecutor is alleging, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, last question. Amanda was apparently tricked into revealing her sexual history by being told she had HIV?
HUFF: Yes, that is correct.
HAGUE: They actually sent a doctor down there and said that they needed to retest her because they felt that she was positive.
(CROSS TALK)
HUFF: -- to give a history of everyone she had ever even had sexual contact with and so she made of seven people that she`s ever even kissed. That`s her big sexual history that they`re referring to.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, well listen, I`m so glad that you came on and spoke very articulately on behalf of your niece. And we`re going to stay on top of this case and we`d like to have you back. Janet and Christina thank you.
Christian Bale freaks out on the set of his "Terminator" movie. I will be taking your calls on this absolutely outrageous story. Call 1-877- JVM-SAYS, that`s 1-877-586-7297 and tell me what you think of Batman going ballistic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Batman goes ballistic. In a minute I`ll have the shocking tape from Christian Bale`s on-set outburst.
But first, "Top of the Block" tonight.
An update on a truly awful crime: A verdict in the "Baby Grace" trial. A Texas jury took less than two hours to convict Kimberly Trenor of capital murder in the death of her daughter Riley Ann Sawyers. Riley came to be known as "Baby Grace" until her body was identified.
Twenty-year-old Trenor was emotionless as the verdict was read. Guilty of killing her daughter by whipping her with a belt, holding her head under water and repeatedly slamming her on to the floor like a rag doll. Trenor was sentenced to life in prison without parole. She will spend the rest of her days rotting behind bars which is exactly what she deserves.
Turning now to the Dark Knight`s dark side. Whoa! Stunning new audio from Batman actor Christian Bale captures an all-out tantrum, and I mean tantrum, during the filming of his most recent movie "Terminator Salvation" last summer.
The incident got a little press when it happened but now TMZ.com has released all three minutes of the "F-bomb" laced vitriol of Bale screaming at the film`s VP or director of photography for reportedly walking on set during a scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIAN BALE, ACTOR: I Want you off the [bleep] set you [ bleep]!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: sorry.
BALE: No, don`t just be sorry. Think for one [bleep] second! What the [bleep] are you doing? Are you professional or not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I am.
BALE: Do I [bleep] walk around -- no, shut the [bleep] up, Bruce! No! No! Don`t shut me up!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Others who worked on the film say Bale is a method actor who was having a rough day. Rough day or a Hollywood ego out of control? What do you think? Call me, 1-877-Jvm-Says, that`s 1-877-586- 7297.
But first let me go to my fabulous panel, my dear friend and former colleague Carlos Diaz, correspondent for "Extra" and Robin Cohn author of the PR crisis bible "How to take Charge of the Media when all Hell Breaks loose."
Carlos, good to see you again, as always, my dear.
CARLOS DIAZ, CORRESPONDENT, "EXTRA": Good to see you, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you`re smack in the middle of the whole Hollywood scene we know that.
DIAZ: Yes, sure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is the reaction from people in the biz to this?
DIAZ: I mean, people in the biz they are listening to this and they`re saying ok, I mean, this is a guy that got out of control, but let`s face it. I mean, he`s on the set of "Terminator Salvation" this is not a romantic comedy. This is the movie about the end of the world.
And you know what? Chasing cyborgs can do that to you. I mean, you get kind of angry at times. It is truthful, though, Jane that one coworker should never yell at another coworker in this fashion and they are coworkers.
Christian Bale is no more important than a director of photography as far as people go. Maybe as far as salaries go, but there is a little bit of outrage, but for the most part people in Hollywood say, "You know what? That happens on Hollywood sets a lot."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Really? Well, that`s what`s really upsetting to find out that this is not that unusual because average folks across America are totally outraged, but apparently that cynical set in Hollywood sipping their soy lattes at Earth Cafe, don`t think this is a big deal. That shocks me, Robin Cohn.
ROBIN COHN, AUTHOR: Yes, it`s not like he was a pilot of a plane and two engines fell off. It`s not like he was in Afghanistan dodging bullets. I mean, I`m sorry, and I`m sure it was upsetting to have the scene cut. But there was no reason for this and what I really want to know is why somebody didn`t stop him.
Where was the director? And where was somebody -- the fact that people stood around and let him act that way I think is really more of a story now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to take another listen to this rant from Christian Bale spitting venom and F-bombs, 36 to 39, there`s a dispute on how many F-bombs -- on the set of the movie "Terminator Salvation." And let`s play it please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALE: Am I going to walk around and rip the [bleep] lights down in the middle of a scene? Then why the [bleep] are you walking right through like this in the background? What the [bleep] is it with you? What don`t you [bleep] understand? You`ve got any [bleep] idea about hey, it`s [bleep] distracting having somebody walking up behind Bryce in the middle of a [bleep] scene? Give me a [bleep] answer. What don`t you get about it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, here is a very cynical question, Carlos Diaz. Is it possible? How does this get out at this time because this happened back in the summer? I was thinking in a twisted way could Hollywood, a studio, for example, leak this in the hope of generating interest in the upcoming movie? It`s going to be released; "Terminator Salvation" is going to be released in the spring time.
DIAZ: Yes, actually it`s a summer movie but you`re though, I mean in a very cynical way you could say well, it`s getting tons of press because of this. I find it very ironic that the Bryce that he mentioned in that last sound bite, is Bryce Dallas Howard, Ron Howard`s daughter and there`s not a more laid-back director in Hollywood than Ron Howard. And Bryce Dallas Howard is so sweet, so I can`t imagine her being on the set and having to listen to this.
But the bottom line is, like I said before, I mean, he didn`t make fun of anyone`s religion; he didn`t make fun of anybody`s sex or race. He just was yelling at somebody in a very non-professional way. He didn`t get very personal though.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Carlos. I`m sorry, dude. I love you. We sat side by side for three years. You were always a gentleman.
DIAZ: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And maybe not a scholar, but a gentleman.
DIAZ: No.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A gentleman and a scholar, I`m sorry. I got confused there for a second.
But to me this is out of control behavior; this is a rageaholic. You know that I`m a recovering alcoholic and I have almost 14 years and knock on wood in April, I`ll be 14 years of sobriety.
I know addiction when I see it. This was something where once he became angry he couldn`t stop just like once you have one drink you can`t stop when you`re an alcoholic.
DIAZ: And Jane, you make a great point. You can actually hear him if you listen to this four-minute rant you can hear him trying to get himself under control. He`s trying because he`s going off on the guy and then he`s, like, you`re a good guy, you`re a good guy but you know what, he goes off on him again --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
DIAZ: But then sudden he said, answer me! Shut up! Answer me! Shut up! And he`s like, he`s really trying to get himself under control and he`s losing that battle.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There are programs for rageaholic behavior. I`ve gone to an anger workshop, not that I`m a rageaholic, I have enough addictions, thank you very much, but I`ve actually hit the pillows with tennis rackets. There are things you can do out there when you`re a rageaholic.
This guy needs help. I really believe that.
Jackie Oklahoma; question, ma`am? Jackie? Are you there?
JACKIE OF OKLAHOMA: Yes, I am.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, what`s your question or thought, ma`am?
JACKIE: I was just wondering if maybe this isn`t the typical behavior of our primadonna stars and we just don`t hear about it all the time?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I guess we`re going to have to throw that one back to Carlos.
DIAZ: I think, listen, when you`re talking about a movie set where it is about the end of the world which is "Terminator: Salvation" and it`s basically people trying to survive against machines trying to kill them and if you`re a method actor, yes you can get caught up in a moment.
And if you`re looking at Bryce Dallas Howard and then you see the director of photographer walking through your shot you may lose it on the set. And you know what I hate to say it, but these things do happen a lot and the person here is the sound person because that sound person could have easily just killed the microphones and just turned them down, but he rolled those mikes the entire time for some unknown reason.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Robin, briefly what should he do now? Should he apologize publicly?
COHN: Absolutely. I think, first of all, he needs to have some anger management. And then he also needs to either put out a release or do some interviews saying, "Look, I realize I have some problems here, and I`m going to be taking anger management."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you absolutely. And that`s where we`re going to have to leave it. Carlos, Robin, thank you so much.
Be sure to tune in to "Showbiz Tonight" tonight at 11:00 p.m. Eastern. I`ll be analyzing this Christian Bale freak-out on that broadcast.
And here on "ISSUES" we will have more of Batman`s outburst with TMZ`s own Harvey Levin in just a moment.
But first, listen to this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BALE: I want you off the (bleep) set, you (bleep).
HURLBUT: Sorry...
BALE: No, don`t just be sorry. Think for one (bleep) second.
What the (bleep) are you doing?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was Christian Bale ranting at a crew member on the set of his new movie "Terminator: Salvation."
Happy to have right here Harvey Levin, executive producer of TMZ TV. Harvey, you did it again, another TMZ blockbuster. Give us the back story on this astounding Christian Bale tape.
HARVEY LEVIN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, TMZ: Well, it was so bad, that the producers were worried that he might walk off the set. And the insurance company might have to actually pay to kind of fund the film, if the film went bust, because Christian Bale quit. So they sent this on to the insurance company, just in case the insurance company had to pay up for a heads-up. It ended up there and ultimately we ended up getting the tape.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you are always breaking exclusives day after day on TMZ and TMVTV. What are you cooking up now? I know you`ve got something.
LEVIN: This is such an incredible story.
We did a story over the weekend about a pilot who took Tommy Lee on a flight and buzzed an LAPD helicopter that made the guy land. Thought he was drinking and flying. And ended up when they finally found him at the Van Nuys airport, he was drinking vodka.
And turns out this guy has a history. We`ve got pictures of this guy basically fondling a woman`s breast in a helicopter, in the air. And the FAA got these pictures last October, and did nothing.
And I talked to the FAA and I said, how can you do nothing when you get these pictures? And they said, we didn`t know whether the guy was on the ground or in the air. Well, guess what, if you look at the pictures, you see the horizon. And if you look at the pictures, you see the knob that shows that he`s doing 60 knots. And I called the guy up and I said, were you in the air? And he said, yeah, that`s how I roll. He wasn`t looking out the window. He`s looking 400 feet above the ground.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s Tommy Lee`s involvement in all this?
LEVIN: He flies with this guy all the time. Last year, Jane, this pilot got criminal charges filed against him because he landed on a street in the Hollywood Hills to pick up Tommy Lee and Slash to go to a Nine-Inch Nails concert in Irvine. He`s had his license revoked twice. His license suspended another two times.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.
LEVIN: And the FAA`s letting this guy fly. It`s unbelievable.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve got to let it go there, Harvey. Amazing story. Check out TMZ.
I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell and you are watching "ISSUES" on HLN.
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