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American Morning
Arkansas Doctor Bombing; Digital TV Delay; Obama Warns of "Catastrophe"; Obama Expects Senate to Pass Stimulus; Republic Windows and Doors Bankrupt or Business as Usual; Senate Poised to Cast a Do or Die Vote on President Obama's Massive Stimulus Plan; Senate Approves an Amendment Giving Homeowners a Tax Cut Provision; New Details on the Bernard Madoff Probe; Cheney Issues a Terror Warning to the Obama Administration; Recession Forcing Police Departments to Make Deep Budget Cuts
Aired February 05, 2009 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Breaking news in the battle for your money. President Obama talking about a breakthrough in the Senate.
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He thinks that by the end of the week he'll have the votes to move this forward.
CHETRY: Congress under increasing pressure to pass the stimulus for your future.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Failure to act and act now will turn crisis into a catastrophe.
CHETRY: Plus, Dick Cheney's terror warning.
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If it hadn't been for what we did, we would have been attacked again.
CHETRY: The former vice president talking about the consequences of closing Gitmo and what he calls turning the other cheek, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: And welcome. It's Thursday, February fifth.
Interesting for the former vice president to be still vigorously defending some of the most controversial programs of their administration and putting out a warning for the current one.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Believing that the policies of the current administration will leave America more vulnerable to attack, you know, the lingering administration just, you know, still out there. Wow.
Anyways, it's top of the hour, 6:00 Eastern. Time to check this morning's top stories. Thanks for being with us. A warning if you or anyone you know received any free food from FEMA after last week's ice storms in Kentucky and Arkansas. FEMA says the meal kits that were passed out may contain peanut butter linked to the nationwide salmonella outbreak that has sickened more than 500 people. The agency says all other parts of the meal kits are safe to eat, just not the packets of peanut butter.
Well, 25 years after cyanide-laced Tylenol pills killed seven people in the Chicago area, the FBI is reopening the books in the 1982 tampering case. Agents near Boston searched the home of the lead suspect in the case.
James Lewis served 12 years in prison after he was convicted of sending an extortion note to Johnson & Johnson, the pill maker's parent company. Lewis admitted to writing the letter but denied having anything to do with the poisonings. Criminal charges were never filed in the murders.
And a look at swimming champion Michael Phelps, speaking publicly for the first time since a British tabloid published a photo of him allegedly smoking pot over the weekend. Phelps spoke with the "Associated Press" after a workout in Baltimore saying that the fallout is "something I'm going to have to live with" and he expects to learn from his mistake. The Olympian issued a public apology to fans and sponsors on Sunday.
CHETRY: Well off the top this morning, breaking news. The Senate poised to cast a do or die vote on President Obama's massive stimulus plan. Senate leaders now suggesting that the decision could come as early as today, and President Obama seems confident that he will get the green light.
Late last night, sources telling the White House unit that the president expects he'll have the votes to pass his plan and to prevent a Republican filibuster. He says failing to do so could mean disaster.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. OBAMA: We know that even if we do everything that we should, this crisis was years in the making, and it will take more than weeks or months to turn things around. But make no mistake, a failure to act and act now will turn crisis into a catastrophe, and guarantee a longer recession, a less robust recovery, and a more uncertain future. Millions more jobs will be lost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: And that's not the only breaking development this morning. There's also a new addition to the stimulus plan. It's a tax cut provision that could make it easier for millions of people to buy a home. Christine Romans has more on that in a moment.
First, though, to Washington, CNN the only network on the White House lawn this early. Suzanne Malveaux is there for us. And Suzanne, President Obama seems to be turning up the urgency and the rhetoric on the stimulus bill, at the same time, the pushback from the GOP also getting louder.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Kiran, he certainly is using some dire language, dramatic predictions here talking about catastrophe. It is almost as if he's talking about a security threat as opposed to an economic one.
What you're seeing here is him talking about a sense of urgency. Even "The Washington Post" there's an op-ed by the president and he says this is the time, this is the time, this is the time to act. Obviously, it is trying to put pressure on lawmakers, not just Republicans here but Democrats, who he's been talking with behind the scenes saying look, there are things that you can actually take out of this huge economic stimulus package to allow Republicans to sign on to it.
There are a group of Republicans, moderate Republicans who are here at the White House, Kiran, yesterday. I got the chance to talk to one of them, Senator Olympia Snowe, and I asked her, is this going to pass? Do you think we have a good shot at this? And she said that she was very encouraged that the president has a list of things that Republicans believe, moderate Republicans believe should be taken out of the bill and that he's taking it into consideration -- Kiran?
CHETRY: Oh, sorry, I thought we were going to hear a little bit from Olympia Snowe. You also broke some news on the president's program for faith-based initiatives, right? Carry over from the Bush Administration taking some heat for the hiring practices and that's coming into the spotlight today as well.
MALVEAUX: You're absolutely right. Part of the controversy is that under President Bush's faith-based initiatives that some religious groups might be hiring based on the fact that other members of the same faith here and that it might be discriminatory.
Well, President Obama is going to sign an executive order later today and he's going to take a look at that and say look, if there are hiring practices that are discriminatory, let's get the White House counsel involved. Let's get the attorney general involved. If there's any question over who's being hired or who's not being included, we're going to take a look at this under our administration.
So really, what they're saying is a step forward here, using all the legal tools they have to make sure that there's no discrimination that is taking place, Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. And we're going to be seeing the president a little bit later this morning at the national prayer breakfast as well.
Suzanne, thanks.
And as for the debate over the stimulus plan, it's not exclusive to Congress. It's become a big topic of conversation in offices, coffee shops, gyms, even right here at CNN.
Larry King spent a lot of time on it last night, and even got Donald Trump to call in and answer the big question, is it worth it? Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST, CNN'S "LARRY KING LIVE": If you were in the Senate, would you vote for the stimulus plan?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT AND CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Well, I'd vote for a stimulus plan. I'm not sure that all of the things in there are appropriate. Some of the little toys that they have are not really appropriate. They're a little surprising that they seem to want it because the publicity on it has been terrible. But I would certainly vote for a stimulus but I would really vote for banks having to loan out the money, because they're not doing that, Larry.
KING: In your adult career, have you ever seen it worst?
TRUMP: No, this is the worst ever. This is the worst I've ever seen. 1990 was a bad period of time, but this is far worse and this is worse on, you know, on a really global basis.
Look, I was watching a little while ago some of the shows and I'm looking at different countries. Every country is bad. Now they're blaming us because of what happened. You know, why not blame the United States, but every country is in trouble.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: We're going to continue our coverage of the stimulus plan this morning. The Senate approved an amendment as we said to its stimulus bill that could give homebuyers a tax credit worth up to $15,000.
Christine Romans now "Minding Your Business."
How would this work? This is an idea from Senator Johnny Isakson.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. This will be a $15,000 tax credit. You wouldn't have to pay it back if you have true tax credit, $15,000 for any homebuyer buying any home if it's your primary residence.
And so this is bigger than a similar provision that's in the House version that was $7,500 tax credit, and it's different than something that was passed I think last year. There was a $7,500 tax credit but had to be paid back over ten years, so it wasn't sort of a true credit. So the idea here is to fix housing first.
Listen to what Senator Johnny Isakson from Georgia said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JOHNNY ISAKSON (R), GEORGIA: This is not a catch phrase and is not a slogan. If we don't fix housing first, it doesn't matter what else we fix because throwing money at the symptoms, as Jon Kyl said, won't work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: Senator Johnny Isakson from Georgia referring to Senator Jon Kyl from Arizona, I believe. So there's an idea in the Senate, there's this push in the Senate from some Republicans that you've got to have more housing provisions in here.
There's also been a lot of talk about this four percent mortgage rate for people with good credit to try to boost the housing market, just do something to try to get the housing market going.
Senator Johnny Isakson, he says that this is similar to something they tried to do back in 1975, he says, helped the economy in a recession. The idea of fixing housing first has a lot of people on board including a lot of people in the home, the real estate brokers...
ROBERTS: Right, right.
CHETRY: I got two questions all the time. Number one is what happens for people who are already in those stages of foreclosure? Is there help for them?
And number two, whether this tax credits can make a difference if banks and mortgage companies aren't lending?
ROMANS: Well, one thing about it -- you know, people who are already in a foreclosure process obviously doesn't help the people in foreclosure process. But the idea is that you want to get money from people who have money and good credit. You got to get those people, the people who can afford to be out there pushing the economy. You got to get them out there and get their money out there.
The second part of this is that the White House and the White House budget director has actually said this week, sent a letter out to people in the Senate saying look, we have some housing provisions and a foreclosure prevention plan that we're going to be, you know, telling you about in coming days.
Let's focus on the stimulus and the stimulus and not get to -- we agree with a lot of the help for homeowners kind of sentiment in the stimulus but, you know, the White House saying that they've got some stuff coming up, too. So there's a real new push on the home part of this equation.
ROBERTS: Christine, thanks so much.
ROMANS: Sure.
ROBERTS: Well, First Lady Michelle Obama also making the housing crisis a top priority, promoting the president's stimulus plan at the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Yesterday, she stressed homeownership was one of the keys to fixing our economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: You and your colleagues are going to be asked to do even more. That's for sure. It's of critical importance that we stem the tide of foreclosures, and find a way to keep people in their homes, people who own their homes and take care of their homes, that leads to the well-being of the entire community. It's critical. And the housing crisis has drastic consequences, not just on our economy, but on the very fiber of our communities all across this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Mrs. Obama also noted that the stimulus plan would include repairs to military family housing.
CHETRY: Well, there are new details emerging this morning about the people who invested money with accused swindler Bernard Madoff. A 162-page court filing reveals thousands of Madoff's clients and also presumed victims in what authorities are calling the largest Ponzi scheme in history.
There you see actor Kevin Bacon, also legendary pitcher Sandy Koufax, also New York Mets owner, Fred Wilpon. Madoff's defense lawyer Ira Sorkin is also on the list but just how much they invested with Madoff is not known. The Madoff case is a subject of a congressional investigation, and lawmakers also want to know how much a massive investment fraud could have been missed by regulators.
CNN's Allan Chernoff tells us that there's new evidence the SEC ignored the warnings about Madoff for nearly a decade.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A damning indictment of the Securities and Exchange Commission from the man who tried to blow the whistle on Bernard Madoff.
HARRY MARKOPOLOS, MADOFF WHISTLEBLOWER: I gift wrapped and delivered the largest Ponzi scheme in history to them and somehow they couldn't be bothered to conduct a thorough and proper investigation.
CHERNOFF: Over the past decade, Harry Markopolos, a certified fraud examiner, provided the SEC with memos detailing evidence of Madoff's alleged fraud. Even names and phone numbers for the SEC to call, but he could never generate interest behind Boston SEC staffer Edward Manion (ph).
MARKOPOLOS: In 2000, Mr. Manion warned me that relations between the New York and Boston regional offices was about as warm and friendly as the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry, and that New York does not like to receive tips from Boston.
CHERNOFF: Markopolos, who worked at a Boston money management firm that asked him to replicate Madoff's supposed investment strategy, said it took him only five minutes to suspect Madoff was a fraud, four hours of number crunching to be certain. But the SEC, he testified, is financially illiterate, over-lawyered and far too cozy with those it's supposed to oversee.
MARKOPOLOS: The SEC is also captive to the industry it regulates, and it is afraid of bringing big cases against the largest, most powerful firms.
CHERNOFF: Markopolos said he feared for his life as he investigated, convinced that Russian mobsters and Latin drug cartels were Madoff's clients. Madoff charged with running a multibillion dollar investment fraud remains under 24-hour penthouse arrest at his luxury Manhattan apartment as he awaits indictment. Following Markopolos' testimony, SEC directors got grilled.
REP. GARY ACKERMAN (D), NEW YORK: You have totally and thoroughly failed in your mission. Don't you get if it? I only have five minutes.
LINDA CHATMAN THOMSEN, SEC ENFORCEMENT DIRECTOR: Let me start with enforcement. We began an investigation in 2006, and it was closed without action.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF: Markopolos said he'll expose a mini Madoff who was engaged in a $1 billion fraud when he meets on Wednesday with SEC inspector general David Kotz, who's investigating the commission's failure on the Madoff matter -- John, Kiran.
CHETRY: Allan Chernoff for us. So let's bring in Christine Romans. So, the congressman, like...
ROMANS: Yes.
CHETRY: We're just going after the SEC. What is their excuse? What is their reasoning for why this wasn't caught?
ROMANS: Well, I knew her, that SEC official who said look, we started and opened an investigation. It was closed without action in 2006. And, you know, the congressman is just furious. What do you mean? You even looked at him. So if not even as if -- not only did they not look at him. Oh, they looked at him. They looked at him and closed the case without any kind of action.
So the testimony of Mr. Markopolos is just absolutely riveting. I mean, he said they're financially illiterate. It took me five minutes to know that something was really wrong here. It took me four hours to figure out that this was a huge, huge Ponzi scheme. I laid out with red arrows this is where -- and then when they didn't seem to be able to understand how to follow the investigation, he laid out a road map. OK, start your investigation here, and then go here, and then go here and then go here. And he was absolutely stunned that they completely disregarded his advice.
ROBERTS: A scathing indictment of the SEC. ROMANS: It really, really is.
CHETRY: Christine, thank you.
It's 13 minutes after the hour.
ROBERTS: Dick Cheney's terror warning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: Whether or not they can pull it off depends in part upon us, and what kind of policies we put in place and whether or not we're prepared to do what we need to do.
ROBERTS (voice-over): The former vice president on the attack.
CHENEY: They're more concerned with reading the rights to an al- Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States.
ROBERTS: What's behind the slam? You're watching the Most News in the Morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. A live picture of the White House this morning.
Just weeks after he left the premises, former Vice President Dick Cheney issuing a chilly warning for the country and the new commander in chief. Cheney says it's likely that terrorists will try to attack the United States again, and he says President Obama's policies make it more likely that terrorists will succeed.
CNN's Tom Foreman takes a look at Cheney's attack on the new administration and the defense of his own.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even in the bear- knuckled world of Washington, this was a remarkably sharp attack by the former vice president. The plan to close the prison camp at Guantanamo amid complaints about human rights, a clear sore point in his interview with Politico.com.
CHENEY: When we get people who are more concerned about the -- let me think carefully about how I describe this -- but more concerned with reading the rights to an al-Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States against people who are absolutely committed to do everything they can to kill Americans, then I worry. Whether or not they can pull it off depends in part upon us, and what kind of policies we put in place and whether or not we're prepared to do what we need to do.
B. OBAMA: On this day... FOREMAN: Even before President Obama took office, Cheney defended the treatment of terror suspects under President Bush and now, with Obama condemning torture and reversing many Bush policies, Cheney is insisting.
CHENEY: If it hadn't been for what we did with respect to terrorist surveillance program or enhanced interrogation techniques for high-value detainees, and the Patriot Act and so forth, that we would have been attacked again.
FOREMAN: Not only that, he says, time will prove it.
JOHN HARRIS, POLITICO: He says once the files are open, people will be able to see the Bush administration policies, policies that he's closely linked with, that those policies averted attacks.
FOREMAN (on camera): Still, the attack Washington is buzzing about right now is this one, top former officials rarely have such harsh words for a new president, and almost never so soon.
(voice-over): But Dick Cheney made it clear long ago the opinions of others don't bother him much, and the Obama Administration has not responded.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Really kind of extraordinary for the vice president to be that vociferous about this particular issue at this stage in the new administration.
CHETRY: Right, 17 days out with the new administration. The other interesting thing is when they said that the documentation, when more information is released, we'll see directly how intense -- enhanced interrogations, possibly waterboarding actually prevented a terror attack.
ROBERTS: Yes. I mean, there are so many different opinions on the use of these enhanced interrogation techniques.
CHETRY: But we'll actually see evidence of that? That's a fascinating notion.
ROBERTS: Yes, certainly is. Well, we'll see if they actually produce it.
Coming up later on, we're going to be talking with Politico's Mike Allen about the interview with Dick Cheney. That will be at 8:30 Eastern this morning. So make sure that you're around for that.
It's coming up now on 19 minutes after the hour.
CHETRY: Stimulating America's security.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police departments all across the United States are no longer hiring.
CHETRY (voice-over): Is law enforcement being short-changed?
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), JUDICIARY CHAIRMAN: I'd like to see the money go back to law enforcement in America.
CHETRY: Your wallet and your security ahead on the Most News in the Morning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Day 17 of the Obama Administration, could also be the day that the Senate votes on President Obama's stimulus plan. After a lot of bickering over the bill on Capitol Hill, the president is drawing the line in the sand upping the urgency and the rhetoric.
Here's President Obama making his case for the stimulus package yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. OBAMA: The past few days I've heard criticisms that this plan is somehow wanting, and these criticisms echo the very same failed economic theories that led us into this crisis in the first place, the notion that tax cuts alone will solve all our problems, that we can ignore fundamental challenges like energy independence and the high costs of healthcare, that we can somehow deal with this in a piecemeal fashion and still expect our economy and our country to thrive.
I reject those theories, and so did the American people when they went to the polls in November and voted resoundingly for change. So I urge members of Congress to act without delay. No plan is perfect, and we should work to make it stronger.
This is America. We don't disparage wealth. We don't begrudge anybody for achieving success, and we certainly believe that success should be rewarded. But what gets people upset and rightfully so, are executives being rewarded for failure, especially when those rewards are subsidized by U.S. taxpayers, many of whom are having a tough time themselves. For top executives to award themselves these kinds of compensation packages in the midst of this economic crisis isn't just bad taste, it's bad strategy, and I will not tolerate it as president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: The president now pledging that executives of any company getting a large part of the federal bailout will have their pay capped at $500,000. And, of course, Kiran, then there's that other provision that any equity share they get in the company will have to be in restricted stock that won't be vested until after their company pays back the money to taxpayers.
CHETRY: That's right with interest.
Well, the recession forcing police departments across the country to make deep budget cuts. And even with the billions of dollars being set aside in the stimulus plan for law enforcement, critics are saying that it's not enough to put more officers on the street.
Homeland Security correspondent Jeanne Meserve is live in Washington for us this morning.
So it's interesting, because they're talking about 2.6 billion here, another billion there and yet police departments are saying they're not going to be able to put more officers on the street?
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you if you look at the bill as a whole, there's about $4 billion in law enforcement grants in there but the question, as you say, is, do they belong?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): Police protection may be an essential service, but in these tough times, even the essentials are being trimmed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police departments all across the United States are no longer hiring. Some are laying off police officers, and civilian support staff.
MESERVE: Timony (ph) says fewer cops mean more crime because bad guys are less likely to get caught quickly. And some predict more people will turn to crime as the recession drags on, making the situation even more grim.
Enter the stimulus plan. It would breathe new life into two two grant programs slashed during the Bush administration. The Community Oriented Policing Services Program or COPS, pays a portion of officers' salaries allowing police agencies to staff up. In the Senate stimulus bill, COPS gets $1 billion. Another $2 billion would go to law enforcement grants used for equipment, overtime and training.
LEAHY: The last administration spent billions of dollars for law enforcement in Iraq and they paid for it by cutting out billions of dollars for law enforcement in America. I'd like to see the money go back to law enforcement in America.
MESERVE: Critics say the number of jobs created by these grant programs would be too few, the time frame too slow, the benefit too small.
REP. LAMAR SMITH (R) JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Those may be worthy programs, but they're not going to be the job generators, the job creators that we need. We're looking for money that is going to be spent to create jobs immediately this year, when the economic crisis is at its peak.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: These grant programs are very popular with police chiefs and mayors, particularly now, when their budgets are under serious stress. The president and Democrats in Congress like them, too, making it likely that the programs will be brought back to life, either in the stimulus bill or outside it.
Kiran, back to you.
CHETRY: So they're not saying it's not enough money. They're talking about where it's going, where it's targeted.
MESERVE: Yes. And there's the controversy about whether this is the biggest bang you can get out of the stimulus bill. Should this be going to police officers or should this be going to things like rebuilding roads?
CHETRY: Jeanne Meserve for us this morning. Thanks so much.
MESERVE: You bet.
ROBERTS: President Obama taking on Republicans who would stand in the way of his economic stimulus package. The president warning of an economic catastrophe if the plan is not approved. Our political panel weighs in on the stimulus progress.
And a Web site where college students go to gossip about their classmates is shutting down. We got the 411 on Juicy Campus.
It's 28 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Six thirty here in New York. A look at the top stories this morning.
The head of Arkansas's medical board remains in critical condition this morning. He was injured in a car bombing. Dr. Trent Pierce lost his left eye in a blast and doctors don't know if his right eye can be saved either. Pierce's wife found him after the explosion, thrown six feet into a flower bed. Police say they don't know why the doctor was targeted.
Well, you can hang on to your rabbit ears just a little bit longer. The House passing a Senate bill moving the mandated digital TV transition to June 12th. Cable companies originally planned to shut down all analog TV signals on the 17th of February. Supporters argued that more than $6 million homes including elderly and disabled would lose their TV service if the switch happened this month.
And the college gossip Web site juicycampus.com falling victim to the recession. It was a controversial site where anonymous, sometimes malicious gossip posted by students about their classmates was read by many across the country. Well juicy.com's founder cites the bad economy and falling ad revenue as the reasons for their demise.
ROBERTS: Everybody's getting hit hard.
To politics now, President Obama now seems confident that the Senate will approve his economic stimulus plan by the end of this week, but he is still playing hardball with Republican opponents warning that failure to act will turn an economic crisis into a catastrophe.
For more on that and all things politics, we turn this morning to Republican analyst Leslie Sanchez and Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis. They are both in Washington for us this morning.
Folks, it's good to see you.
Let me start off with a quote from correspondent Byron York -- White House correspondent for "The National Review" online. Who said, quote, "On Capitol Hill, you can feel the Republicans' growing sense of confidence."
Republicans were decimated, Chris, during the election. Now they seem to be gaining the upper hand in the stimulus bill. What's going on?
CHRIS KOFINIS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I'm not sure, you know, how much they've really gained in stature or prominence with the American people. But, you know, part of this is just the reality of the legislative process.
You know, in the Senate, if you don't have 60, you can't push through anything really. And it basically gives an enormous amount of power and leverage to the minority party, which the Republicans are, which is allows to kind of become a very good obstacle to the president.
The problem here that they face I think is, you know, are they going to basically cut off their nose despite their face? The American people want action and you do not want to be the party that is obstructing a stimulus package right now, and that is what the Republicans are in danger of becoming.
ROBERTS: Let me hold off on the nose comment for a second here, Leslie. But to what Chris was saying earlier just about this being part of the legislative process, it seems to go beyond that. Because Republicans have effectively defined the stimulus package as being loaded with pork and they've managed to change public opinion.
LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Absolutely.
ROBERTS: A couple of weeks ago, a little more than 50 percent in favor of it, now 38 percent say, hey, we don't like this particular bill.
SANCHEZ: Absolutely. If you look at the support for the economic stimulus plan it's going in one direction and that is down. The more time that the American public has to look at how loaded this stimulus plan is, the more that they're getting very skeptical. Is this just this bloated economic -- nationalization and economic expansion that is really uncalled for?
If you look at the fact that Senator Thune is putting over an alternative bill, say no new spending programs. Why do you need $1 trillion to create three millions jobs? We need to ensure that these are jobs that if we do have them, that Americans get that they're not to foreign entities. It's responsible government. It's good loyal opposition.
But more than anything I think a lot of conservatives and Republicans are looking at what their House did, that vote of solidarity against this massive expansion, this pork plan, and trying to say we can stand together, we can have a voice for responsible government.
ROBERTS: I mean, OK, well, what about this nose idea? I mean, Leslie, you've got a lovely nose. We would hate to see you cut it off. But is there a danger that Republicans might do that if this plan goes down to defeat and we really need it.
SANCHEZ: I think there's a danger not understanding what the concerns and ramifications are for loading down future generations with debt. That's actually foreign debt. I think there's a tremendous amount of concern. This is a significant amount of money and people really don't know where it's going.
ROBERTS: OK, Chris -- let me let Chris get in here, too. Because Barack Obama, the president is pushing hard -- pushing back hard against opposition. Let's listen to what he said yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. OBAMA: In the past few days I've heard criticisms of this plan that, frankly, echo the very same failed theories that helped lead us into this crisis in the first place. I reject these theories and by the way, so did the American people when they went to the polls in November and voted resoundingly for change.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Chris, he's pulling the election card there again saying I won, I'm the person who is leading the change here, but he's got an uphill battle and not just with Republicans but with some Democrats like Ben Nelson.
KOFINIS: Well, listen, part of the problem is we're talking about a massive stimulus, the largest proposed stimulus in U.S. history. So there is always going to be I think some reluctance. I mean, the challenge I think for the White House and President Obama is to go out there and sell this aggressively. And I think you started seeing that again yesterday.
But here's the other problem. And you saw, you know, Leslie talk about this. The facts in terms of pork and how this is loaded up. Those are just wrong. This bill actually is nothing like that. If you look at so-called small pet projects, represents less than one percent of the actual bill.
SANCHEZ: Which is in the billions, Chris.
KOFINIS: Absolutely. Yes. But, Leslie, it's an $800 billion stimulus package. Let's get serious here.
SANCHEZ: I think to be fair to Chris's point, I think what the Republicans are trying to do is say, look, we've put together some measures that focus more on housing, some construction, things that can actually grow the economy probably faster.
There's some really smart choices here. I think you're going to see some amendments come up. There's good conversation. It is good to have these kind of, you know, grievances aired so we can get a better proposal forward. That's what the Republicans are trying to describe.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: And it's...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And it's about half the cost, Chris. That's the other factor there.
(CROSSTALK)
KOFINIS: Yes. The problem is...
ROBERTS: Folks, I got to cut it off here, folks, but it's wonderful to have this conversation with you in the morning. Love having you here.
Chris Kofinis and Leslie Sanchez, thanks so much.
KOFINIS: Thank you.
ROBERTS: Thirty-six minutes after the hour.
CHETRY: Remember the window and door factory worker sit-in in Chicago? The company said they were bankrupt. So why are they in business somewhere else?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should we be outraged? Absolutely.
CHETRY (voice-over): When one door closes, open a window in another state.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is not right, and we're going to make sure that there's justice in the end.
CHETRY: The company accused of pulling a fast one.
You're watching the Most News in the Morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Some amazing pictures to show you this morning of a Kentucky quarter horse being rescued after it fell into a pond and got stuck. Apparently, wandered out for a drink of water, didn't know that it had 23 pounds per square inch of weight on its hooves and went crashed through the ice.
Emergency crews used a large harness to pull the horse named Pencil out of the cold water into safety. It took them about two hours to do it. After the incident, the owner says Pencil was eating hay. Didn't appear to be injured, though. It looks like there's a slight little limp there in the horse.
CHETRY: Maybe its little legs need to thaw out a little bit, two hours in that icy water.
ROBERTS: There for a long time, yes. Apparently, the owner was out plowing snow all night, didn't realize that the horse disappeared and found him in a pond later that day.
CHETRY: Hats off to the firefighters. They're always there, right?
Well, our Rob Marciano is in the weather center in Atlanta.
Just about everywhere you look, it seems, at least in the eastern part of the country, it is cold and icy.
(WEATHER REPORT)
ROBERTS: A group of Chicago factory workers staged a sit-in to get back pay and benefits when their employer went bankrupt. The laid off employees thought that they smelled a rat, it turns out, well, they may have been right. We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Their stories seemed like a small victory for workers everywhere. Laid off factory workers in Chicago standing their ground in winning vacation severance and insurance owed to them.
Now as CNN's Susan Roesgen tells us the employees may have won the battle but lost the war.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we want?
PROTESTORS: Justice!
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN GENERAL ASSIGNMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Remember those factory workers in Chicago who refused to leave the factory, staging a sit-in back in December? The workers had been laid off and they had to fight for their last paychecks and benefits when Republic Windows and Doors shut down with just three days' notice. The company owner said Republic was in financial trouble, but the workers thought they smelled a rat, and some people say they may have been right.
(on camera): The very same week the Union Workers in Chicago were being told the company was broke, the company was doing the same work here at this factory in Iowa, a non-union state.
(voice-over): State documents obtained by CNN showed that this window making company here in Red Oak, Iowa is now owned by Republic, the Chicago company that filed for bankruptcy.
LEAH FRIED, UNION REPRESENTATIVE: Should we be outraged, absolutely.
ROESGEN: Union Representative Leah Fried says the Chicago company owner pulled a fast one, costing 300 people their jobs.
FRIED: They basically set up an alter ego company, and all that to avoid their obligations and responsibilities to their employees, and that's just not right, and we're going to make sure that there's justice in the end.
ROESGEN: The union is suing the company through the NLRB, the National Labor Relations Board, for rights violations. So we wanted to know what Republic's owner had to say.
This is Rich Gilman, heading into a meeting with his creditors. According to Republic's biggest creditors, Bank of America, during negotiations to give the laid off workers their severance, Gilman demanded $98,000 to pay off the leases on his Mercedes and BMW. Bank of America said no way. Gilman had already bought the Iowa factory for $700,000, according to court records.
We tried repeatedly to get Gilman to talk to us about that and he declined. A public relations firm issued this statement. "It is on the advice of his attorney that Mr. Gilman will not talk to the media. During the NLRB hearing, all the questions will be answered."
Back in Iowa, the mayor of Red Oak welcomes the new employer.
MAYOR TIM SCHOONOVER, RED OAK IOWA: I think, you know, as far as the community goes, they're all happy that at least the windows and doors are still open, they're operational and those 150 people still have their jobs.
ROESGEN (on camera): Even though 300 people have lost their jobs in Chicago?
SCHOONOVER: Well, you know, I'm sorry for those, but, you know, I guess we had the same problem when one of our major factories over 300 employees closed and went to Mexico.
ROESGEN (voice-over): The laid off Chicago workers claim the Iowa workers are getting paid a lot less, but with no one at the factory willing to talk to us, we couldn't find out what they're getting paid. At least they're working, when 300 people in Chicago are not.
Susan Roesgen, CNN, Red Oak, Iowa.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: Well, you know you don't have enough money. So what is it about a credit card that makes you still continue to buy things? It may actually be something in your brain. We're going to talk to a decision-making expert about how people decide on everything from what to spend to how to react under pressure and for presidents making gut decisions.
Forty-eight minutes after the hour.
Who calls the cops on the cops?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help! This guy's beating me.
CHETRY (voice-over): When the guy busted calls for backup.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm being dragged out of my car. This is ridiculous. I'm being assaulted. Help!
CHETRY: You're watching the Most News in the Morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: When you get into trouble, most people think maybe you should pick up the phone and call the police. But what if your trouble is with the police? CNN's Jeanne Moos has the 411 on a most unusual 911 call.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): So there you are waving your arms around, being wrestled to the ground by a highway patrol officer. Who are you going to call?
KEVIN ALLEN: This is crazy. This is insane.
MOOS: Kevin Allen called the police on the police.
ALLEN: I'm being dragged out of my car. This is ridiculous. I'm being assaulted. He's yelling at me and grabbing me, and he has maced me once. OK? This is not cool. MOOS: After being stopped for speeding on a 55-mile-per-hour interstate, Allen pulled his cell phone on a Florida highway patrolman and dialed 911.
ALLEN: Get Channel 2, Channel 5, FOX 35, all of them down here.
MOOS (on camera): Police say that Allen passed the marked police car, that he was going 72 miles an hour, that when they pulled him over, he refused to hand over his license and registration.
SGT. KIM MILLER, FLORIDA HIGHWAY PATROL: He told the troopers afterwards it was a matter of principle, that he felt he did nothing wrong and, therefore, he decided to break the law and batter a law enforcement officer.
MOOS (voice-over): Allen thought the officer was battering him.
ALLEN: I'll hold the phone as long as I can.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir.
ALLEN: I'm not even fighting you! I'm not even fighting you! What do you want?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, sir. You need to listen to what the trooper says.
MOOS: Hey, now we're all listening, thanks to Allen's cell phone.
ALLEN: Help! Help! This guy's beating me.
MOOS: Allen was charged with resisting arrest and battery on an officer. He was released on $2,700 bail.
(on camera): Now there is something odder in calling the police on the police. That's when police called police on themselves.
(voice-over): Current TV made an animated cartoon out of this classic 911 call from a few years back. A Dearborn, Michigan, policeman called for help, saying he and his wife had overdosed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Overdose of what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Marijuana.
MOOS: Remember, this is a real 911 call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please come. I think we're dying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. We're on our way. How much did you guys have?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. We made brownies. And I think we're dead. I really do.
MOOS: He didn't die, but his career as a police officer did when he resigned.
We may be in the age of the cell phone, but that won't necessarily keep you out of a cell.
ALLEN: Get off of me!
MOOS: The question remains...
RAY PARKER, SINGER (singing): There's something strange in the neighborhood. Who you gonna call?
MOOS (on camera): ...when you get busted.
(voice-over): Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: Big peanut butter mess for FEMA. How recalled peanut butter packets may have wound up in disaster relief kits.
Plus, cities running out of money. Can't take the trash, can't plow the snow, so where is it all supposed to go?
Plus, your recession relatives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a dollars and cents issue.
CHETRY (voice-over): New surge in multigenerational households.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Actually, they charged us a deposit.
CHETRY: Is there a problem with that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every time I go out, they're like looking out the window, or asking me where I'm going.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: You're watching the Most News in the Morning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Ever wonder how we make decisions? Our next guest profiled a wide-range of clutch decision makers, pilots, NFL quarterbacks and he discovered their decision-making skills and also how it can help you make better decisions in your own life. And joining me now is Jonah Lehrer. He's the author of the book "How We Decide."
Thanks so much for being with us this morning, Jonah.
JONAH LEHRER, AUTHOR, "HOW WE DECIDE": Thank you.
CHETRY: A lot to get through. But I want to ask you first of all, because we've been talking about this financial crisis. A lot of people say that we borrowed too much, we spent too much knowing we couldn't pay it back. Now, all of us individually know how much money we have, right, and theoretically we know whether or not we can afford things. How do we get fooled into spending more than we can afford?
LEHRER: Credit cards I think have a role to play. It turns out that credit cards actually reduce the activity of the insula, the brain area that monitors how much you're paying, because the transaction is abstract. You're just swiping a piece of plastic, not actually taking out cash from your wallet. The brain doesn't fully process the pain of paying and so the end result is we spend too much money.
CHETRY: That's why personal finance advisers always say cut up your credit cards and pay cash and you will find yourself spending less.
LEHRER: Absolutely.
CHETRY: And now you're telling us that there's actually neurological basis for that. That's fascinating. Also in your book, you talk about the risk of information overload.
For example, you use the case of back pain that before they were able to look inside of us because of MRIs and other things, for back pain it was bed rest and most people got cured. Now we've been able to view up close things like our discs and our vertebrae and everything and it has not helped us cure back pain.
LEHRER: Yes, and in some respects it's made things worse. For a long time doctors had to diagnose back pain using x-rays. And x-rays give you a limited amount of information. You can see the bones and the spinal column, but you can't see much else.
Then the late 1980s, doctors got access to MRIs, which allow you to see all the spongy tissues around the bones. And so they got so much more information, this led them to make lots of diagnoses for back pain involving stuff like herniated discs. It later became clear that these diagnoses were often misdiagnoses. I mean, that there's very little correlation between things like herniated disc and things like chronic back pain.
The latest medical guidelines actually recommended doctors don't use MRIs except in rare circumstances and actually rely on x-rays. I'm sure this is a clear case I think of more information leads to less understanding.
CHETRY: Wow. Let's talk about making these types of decisions where, you know, these are life and death choices that you're asked to make. The most recent one that we all watch unfold was that amazing landing, splash landing at the Hudson River by the pilot, Chesley Sullenberger. He described it interestingly enough as calm on the outside, turmoil on the inside. How was he able to make the type of decisions he needed to make with 155 lives at stake?
LEHRER: Well, in my book I profiled some pilots and talk about how pilots learn to practice what they call deliberate calm, and the other thing that gets back to why they practice in flight simulators. They practice these kinds of terrifying scenarios. They learn how to think through their fear and make sure their fear doesn't turn into panic.
CHETRY: Presidential decision-making. I want to ask you about Barack Obama, our current president, versus George W. Bush, our prior president. Barack Obama has talked about getting consensus, getting a lot of people together, and listening to various points of view. And President Bush said on a number of occasions that he's a gut player, relying on instincts. Is there one of these styles that usually works better?
LEHRER: No, I think one of the morals in my book is that there is no universal solution to the problem of decision-making. In many respects the brain is like a Swiss Army knife. It's stuffed full of these different tools. These different ways of thinking. And each of these ways of thinking has advantages in certain situations. The key is thinking about thinking so you can tailor your thought process to the task at hand.
You know, presidents have to make lots of decisions and they should adapt their decision-making style to the decisions they have to make at that moment.
CHETRY: Fascinating book. Jonah Lehrer, author of "How We Decided." Thanks so much for being with us this morning.
LEHRER: Thank you.
ROBERTS: Crossing the top of the hour now at 7:00 Eastern. Breaking news this morning. A do or die vote on President Obama's huge stimulus plan. It could happen as soon as today. Almost $1 trillion and millions of jobs hang in the balance. Sources tell us that the president is confident his economic recovery plan will pass the Senate by the end of the week.
