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Campbell Brown
Congress Blasts Big Banks; Economic Stimulus Compromise Reached
Aired February 11, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, everybody.
They took the money, and now they are facing serious outrage on Capitol Hill.
Bullet point number one tonight: Lawmakers blast the heads of eight of the nation's biggest banks, demanding to know why they aren't lending more and why they are spending money on perks, after being saved from collapse.
Bullet point number two: breaking news tonight on President Obama's stimulus package. It's been back and forth all day. Tonight, the Senate announced a deal. We are going to break it down and tell you exactly what you need to know. The president wants to get the bill on his desk ASAP.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look around us. Look at this construction site right where we're standing. We're surrounded by unmet needs and unfinished business in our schools and our roads, in the systems we employ to treat the sick, in the energy we use to power our homes.
And that's the core of my plan, putting people to work doing the work that America needs done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: More on the plan coming up.
And bullet point number three tonight: another dramatic showdown on Capitol Hill, lawmakers roasting the people in charge of the peanut corporation of America. Tonight, there are new allegations that they knew some of the products had tested positive for a deadly bacteria.
And bullet point number four: the mom with eight new babies and your money. It turns out she is taking government help, after all, and now her P.R. firm has set up a way to help her cash in on the notoriety.
But, first, we are going to go to today's showdown with the big bank executives. Some of them tried to do damage control today, but all of them faced a pretty hostile audience, members of Congress intent on bashing bankers. It all took a lot of stagecraft for both sides. Tom Foreman joins me right now to break it down for us -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a showdown, Campbell.
Even as politicians have fought on the stimulus bill, they have pretty much agreed to beating up highly paid CEOs in the process, because they know that's winning stagecraft, and that's what happened today.
So, at the House Financial Services Committee today, bosses from eight of the nation's biggest banks, beneficiaries of the bailout, were strapped into the hot seats. These guys are easy targets. Look at these big-name banks here and big paychecks, their combined competition for 2007 just short of $191 million, one year, eight guys, all that money.
So, the lawmakers wanted to know why getting a loan remained so tough for average Americans and small businesses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MICHAEL CAPUANO (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Start loaning the money that we gave you. Get it on the street. And don't say, oh, well, we're not using that money for bonuses. Come on.
REP. NYDIA VELAZQUEZ (D), NEW YORK: So, can you explain why your institutions are finding money to fund a multibillion-dollar merger that will produce 19,000 job losses?
REP. GARY ACKERMAN (D), NEW YORK: When the press makes inquiries as to what you did with the first tranche of money that we gave you, many billions of dollars, your answer is, it's none of your business.
CAPUANO: But basically you come to us today on your bicycles after buying Girl Scout cookies and helping out Mother Teresa, telling us, we're sorry. We didn't mean it. We won't do it again. Trust us.
America doesn't trust you anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Of course, these lawmakers know they can just pound away on these guys right now because public sentiment is so hard against them.
Nonetheless, the bankers say they get it. They say they are making more loans, more than they would have without the bailout. And they say one of the reasons it's not going so smoothly is because the standards have tightened up as part of the overall effort to get bad loans under control.
Those answers, Campbell, as you might guess, not being well- received.
BROWN: But, Tom, we're talking about spending billions more to prop up the economy. For all this tough talk, is anything really changing?
FOREMAN: Well, you know, a little bit is changing, Campbell, but only a little bit.
The White House, you may recall, is putting pressure on bailed- out companies over the use of corporate jets and all those big paychecks, but this is what drives taxpayers crazy.
New York attorney General Andrew Cuomo today accused Merrill Lynch of issuing three-quarters-of-a-billion dollars in bonuses early, just before Bank of America took over Merrill, with the help of taxpayer money.
His suggestion is clear, that Merrill execs wanted to take the money and run, leaving taxpayers to pick up the additional shortfall.
Listen to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW CUOMO, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: How do you pay a CEO a performance bonus when by definition the institution was failing? What did they do to deserve that money?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Bank of America says it urged Merrill not to pay the bonuses this way. And Merrill no longer exists as its own company, so, once again, Campbell, frustration for taxpayers and no one taking responsibility for it.
BROWN: No, apparently not. Tom Foreman for us -- Tom, thanks.
And this ties in very nicely with "Cutting Through The Bull" tonight.
Timing is everything when it comes to cashing in during the bailout. The soon-to-be combined Morgan Stanley and Citigroup's Smith Barney are going to be doling out bonuses to its financial advisers, even as both firms take $60 billion of your bailout money. And it gets better.
The bonuses, which could total $3 billion, will be based on the company's 2008 numbers, which, while bad, almost certainly are going to be better than this year's.
So, how do we know all this? Well, someone gave "The Huffington Post" Web site audio from a conference call whereby a Morgan Stanley executive told them not to use the B-word. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will about be a retention award. Please do not call it a bonus. It is not a bonus. It is an award. And it recognizes the importance of keeping our team in place as we go through this integration. (END AUDIO CLIP)
BROWN: So, don't call it a B-word. Don't call it the B-word.
But it certainly sounds like a bonus to us. The dictionary describes a bonus as a sum of money granted to an employee on top of pay of their regular pay, usually in appreciation for work done, length of service or accumulated favors.
Semantics, though, aside, the companies have good reason to want to hide the truth. And, in the middle of a bailout, we have good reason to call this bonus bogus.
We should tell you, Jim Wiggins, spokesman for Morgan Stanley, would not confirm the authenticity of that tape. But he did defend their practice of so-called retention programs.
And I want to bring in senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin to talk about this a little bit.
And, OK, so, he's defending the practice. But give me a break here. Listening to that conference call, it sounds like they are laughing at us on some level, like they don't take this seriously at all. Is there anything legally that anybody can do about it?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: My mentor in journalism was Michael Kinsley. And he had an expression. He used to say, the scandal isn't what's illegal. The scandal is what's legal.
What society chooses not to punish tells you a lot about where the standards are. You know, I think it is legal, what they did, as far as I can tell. Merrill Lynch had not been absorbed into Bank of America. They had money in the till. Congress in its bailout had been so lax in setting the rules for how that money could be used, they shipped a lot of that cash out the door to their own people.
And Andrew Cuomo, understandably, is upset, but it's very hard for me to imagine any of that money could ever come back.
BROWN: But what -- he said today he's continuing his investigation. Is that because that's all he can say; it's a little bit of grandstanding on his part?
TOOBIN: Well, I'm not sure.
I think he's trying to see if there's anything he can do. And, sure, he likes the publicity. But it's hard to think of a legal theory that could get that money back. And, you know, it drives people crazy. It drives people crazy in good times that they were paid so much. But in bad times, when the taxpayers are keeping these places afloat, it's just totally maddening.
BROWN: So, what do you make of Congress then calling these CEOs up to testify and putting on this show, because it is good TV, but when they are also clearly not really doing anything to change the policy going forward, at least not yet? TOOBIN: It really looked like a rigged game, where they got spanked in public and it was all very indignant. But, tomorrow, what are the rules? The rules are the same as they were today.
BROWN: Are the same.
TOOBIN: And there is unlikely to be any change. We will see, if the next round of the bailout money, there are tighter restrictions, but no salary restrictions so far.
BROWN: Right.
TOOBIN: It's just the same old story.
BROWN: They are just going to call it something else besides a bonus going forward.
TOOBIN: Right.
BROWN: Still a little depressing.
TOOBIN: And they got called some bad names today.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: All right, Jeffrey Toobin for us tonight -- Jeff, thanks.
There is breaking news, as we mentioned. We have got a deal on the stimulus plan, but only after a last-minute surprise. We're going to have details for you in just a moment.
Plus, this -- another showdown in Washington. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. GREG WALDEN (R), OREGON: Would either of you be willing take the lid off and eat any of these product now, like the people on the panel ahead of you, their relatives, their loved ones did?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Why the heads of a big peanut company were left pretty speechless today and what you need to watch for in your peanut butter.
And then later, the mother of the octuplets, on her Web site, she's asking for your money, and that's on top of the money she's already getting from taxpayers. We're going to have the story coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Breaking news tonight. After a day of back-and-forth negotiations over President Obama's stimulus plan, it looks like the Senate and House have worked out a deal that both can live with. Campaigning for the plan this morning in Virginia, the president laid it on the line, offering a real-life example of jobs he says will be saved.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: And the benefits of jobs we create directly will multiply across the economy. For example, this kind of infrastructure project requires heavy equipment. Caterpillar, which manufactures the machines used in this project, has announced some 20,000 layoffs in the last few weeks. And, today, the chairman and CEO of Caterpillar said that if the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan passes, his company would be able to rehire some of those employees.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, what exactly is in this plan and when is Congress finally going to vote?
Breaking it down for us right now, senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash on Capitol Hill tonight.
And, Dana, just bottom-line it for us. What do we need to know about what is in this bill?
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that if you are somebody who doesn't have a job right now, you are going to get help. Unemployment benefits will be extended. Health care benefits will be extended, even food stamps as well.
Also, if you're living in a state that has really big economic problems, which most states do at this point, expect those states to get tens of billions of dollars, Campbell, from the federal government to help with basic services that many states are having trouble keeping up with, things like education and other services.
But one of the most interesting things in here for most Americans will be the tax cut that they are going to get. And I want to put this up on the screen for you. Most families will get $800 in tax cuts. Most individuals will get $400. That was President Obama's signature issue on the campaign. It's been scaled back a little bit. But that for the most part is intact.
Now, there's something else that we have heard a lot about. And that is infrastructure spending, $150 billion for infrastructure spending. Why is this important? Well, if you ask most people here on Capitol Hill, especially the Republicans -- there are very few Republicans who have signed onto this -- they say that is the most critical thing here, because what are they trying to do with this unprecedented near-trillion dollar bill?
What they're trying to do is create jobs. And they say that money for infrastructure is the best way to do it -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Dana Bash for us tonight -- Dana, thanks very much.
The stimulus deal may be done, but there are still some wounded feelings in Congress right now -- coming up, why Democrats are unhappy with President Obama. We will have that when we come back.
Also ahead, listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: You can't get corporate jets. You can't go take a trip to Las Vegas or go down to the Super Bowl on the taxpayers' dime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Wait a minute, Mr. President. The mayor of Las Vegas seeing red over that remark, and he's going to be here for a NO BIAS, NO BULL interview.
And the mother of the California octuplets may have to rely on taxpayers' money after all to support her children. Wait until you see the price tag.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The very latest on tonight's breaking news, it looks like, as we said, we have a compromise on President Obama's stimulus plan, a big victory for the Democrat in the White House. So, why are Democrats in the House of Representatives feeling like they have been played a little bit by the president?
Well, national political correspondent Jessica Yellin has been working her sources on this.
Jessica, tell us about it.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, I just got off the phone with Democrats up on the Hill who say they are frustrated because they feel like they have been forced to accept a bill that has been stripped of a lot what they cared about.
Now, Speaker Nancy Pelosi herself was enraged for a period of time today, when Senator Harry Reid announced that the deal was done, but the House Democrats felt like they hadn't agreed to it yet.
so, in general, the House Democrats feel like the White House didn't stand up and fight for the bill they wrote. The way they see it, they won the presidency. The public supports the stimulus, so they say, why they are catering to a few centrist Republicans in the Senate? In fact, the president himself had to get on the phone at one particularly touchy point during the day to talk to Nancy Pelosi -- Campbell.
BROWN: And, Jessica, I understand there was more than that going on behind the scenes. It was fairly tense all around, even though they were trying very hard to put a united front up.
YELLIN: Yes, incredibly tense.
I have been talking to people on the Hill and in the administration. And they tell me that Speaker Pelosi hit the roof when Senator Harry Reid went to cameras and announced that a deal was done. Now, he had given her a heads-up in advance, but she was enraged because she felt they hadn't fully signed off on all of that.
And that led to Harry Reid and White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and other administration officials scurrying across the Capitol over to Pelosi's office to work through the disagreement.
I'm told that is when the president called her and thanked her for her support. In other words, the train is leaving the station, so let's all be on board.
Now, all sides are now singing kumbaya, saying, look, this is what happens when you negotiate for two days over Diet Coke and candy pretzels, so it's an ugly process. And, in fact, Reid, Pelosi and President Obama are all at the Ford Theater tonight. So, the worst is behind them.
But this does raise a challenge going forward, because they are going to have to appeal to that group of centrist Republican senators to get anything done going forward. That's the White House's mission. And that is not going to make House Democrats happy -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Jessica Yellin for us tonight with the scoop on all that -- Jessica, thanks.
So, will the White House pay a price for Democratic discord? and after a day of deal or no deal, what happens now?
Here to talk about that, we have got the political panel tonight, CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger, Republican strategist Kevin Madden, and political analyst Roland Martin.
Gloria, how big a problem will this internal battle be for the president?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, Campbell, in the short term, there's going to be a bunch of bruised egos, but in the long term, as Jessica was just pointing out, I think this is the new normal.
You're going to have those centrist moderate Republicans really being the pivot point of legislation from now on. So, the president has made it clear he wants to get things done. He needs those folks to get this done,.
But, having said that, I just spoke with somebody in the administration this evening, who said to me, take a step back. Look at what we're doing. This is what we told those House Democrats. We are lifting two million people out of poverty. So, we ought to all be standing together and applauding this.
BROWN: Roland, what do you think?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: This is nothing new.
Remember, when Republican has control of the House and the Senate, you even had Republicans having to work with Democrats in the Senate. The House is always known as the people's chamber or some people say the crazy house, because you have rabid partisans on both sides.
And, so, when Republicans had control, they would always complain that those Senate Republicans, all of a sudden, they always trying to undo things. This is a natural part of the process.
But, look, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi is going to have to get used to the reality that you have to govern in this kind of way. You can't just do everything your way, because forget just what the Republicans feel. There's also the public outrage to some of the stuff that was in this bill.
BROWN: But, Kevin, aside from a couple of moderate -- or a few moderate Republicans here, he pretty much did this without Republicans. So, is that the new norm? Or how do Republicans sort of get in the game going forward here?
KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, look, first of all, there's nothing better than to see a little bit of Democrat-on- Democrat action up on Capitol Hill, fighting amongst each other.
(LAUGHTER)
BORGER: Shock.
MADDEN: But, look, I think Republicans -- Republicans here have a chance to really calcify around our core conservative principles and contrast them with the Democrats as they move forward, because while President Obama is talking about bipartisanship -- and he's actually shown it through a little bit of pageantry, a cocktail party here, a trip to the Hill there -- there really has been no effort to bring in Republicans and help them with crafting this legislation.
So, Republicans going forward are going to have to recognize that fact and put out viable alternatives to the American public to show that we are actually the party that's going to challenge the status quo here in Washington when it comes to spending and actually getting this economy back on track.
BORGER: But I also think it depends on the issue.
For example, on immigration reform, on energy reform, maybe even on some parts of health care, I think you are going to see different kinds of coalitions forming. You may see more Republicans on board with the president, for example, on energy policy, than you did on this stimulus package.
BROWN: Let me shift gears quickly.
And, Roland, let me ask you about what we saw on Capitol Hill today, big banks, public enemy number one. And President Obama's plan to bail them out received some pretty terrible reviews. How are they trying -- or how is the administration trying to recalibrate on this? MARTIN: Well, first of all, I don't understand why the administration rushed out with a proposal that the president touted in his news conference, and it was short on details.
That was the whole point of this deal. We're waiting for the details. And so that's why Wall Street is reacting the way they are. They are going to have to come up with that.
And I will say this here, Campbell. On this whole issue of these toxic assets, what I don't understand is how we can sit here and try to sell the public on buying toxic assets that somebody can place any value on, because clearly they have no value, but we're the only person -- in essence, the government is bidding against itself.
They are going to have to operate in terms of, here are the details, the fine points. You can't say, here is our big proposal. We will come back to you later exactly what it all means.
That's why people are reacting negatively.
BROWN: All right, guys, we have got to end it there. We're out of time. But many thanks, Kevin, Gloria, and Roland. As always, thanks, guys.
Coming up, a peanut executive not talking. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEWART PARNELL, PRESIDENT, PEANUT CORPORATION OF AMERICA: Mr. Chairman and the members of the committee, on the advice of my counsel, I respectfully decline to answer your questions, based on the protection afforded me under the United States Constitution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Taking the Fifth. His company is tied to the nationwide salmonella outbreak. Will he be forced to tell what he knows?
And then later, increasing outrage over the octuplets' mom. Guess who is footing her bills? We are going to have a NO BIAS, NO BULL look.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We are getting used to executives refusing to take responsibility for what their companies have done. But this is pretty outrageous.
Today, we learned that an elderly woman in Ohio has died from salmonella poisoning, the ninth victim of an outbreak linked to tainted peanuts -- 600 people have been sickened in total. And, yet, when the president of the Peanut Corporation of America, Stewart Parnell, faced lawmakers today on Capitol Hill, he wouldn't even respond to charges that he sent out peanuts he knew were contaminated.
Listen to this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALDEN: This container is full of products that less than a month ago people were consuming, thinking it was fine to eat.
And one of the things I'm going to do today is ask Mr. Parnell from the Peanut Corporation of America if he would like to open this and sample some of the products that he didn't think were a problem in sending out for the rest of us to eat.
Now, there are some recalled products in here and there are some are that probably OK now. Lives were lost and people were sickened because they took a chance, and I believe knowingly, shipping product that was contaminated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Hey, no real surprise here, but that got no response at all from Mr. Parnell. So, Representative Greg Walden tried a more direct approach.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: Mr. Parnell, did you or any officials at the Peanut Corporation of America ever place food products into the interstate commerce that you knew to be contaminated with salmonella?
PARNELL: Mr. Chairman and the members of the committee, on the advice of my counsel, I respectfully decline to answer your questions, based on the protection afforded me under the United States Constitution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: It's unbelievable. And that wasn't the only time Parnell and his plant manager took the Fifth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STUPAK: Mr. Parnell, is it your intent to refuse to answer all of our questions today based on your right against self-incrimination afforded against you -- afforded to you under the Fifth Amendment the Constitution?
PARNELL: Yes.
STUPAK: Mr. Lightsey, is it your intention to refuse to answer all our questions based on the right against self-incrimination afforded to you under the Fifth Amendment the Constitution?
SAMMY LIGHTSEY, PLANT MANAGER: Yes.
STUPAK: All right. Then I have no choice but to -- both of are you dismissed at this time. You are subject to the right of the subcommittee to recall you at a later time and date, if necessary. You are dismissed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: They didn't answer a single question.
And joining me right now to explain how worried all of us should be about this, about tainted peanuts now, given what we just heard, is senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.
And, Elizabeth, it's mind-blowing, listening to this, or what we didn't hear, I guess. And some of these products are still on shelves, aren't they?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. That's what we have been hearing, is that even though they have recalled these items, that some of them are still sitting on shelves.
And the list of items is so long, Campbell, I can't even read them all right now. But we decided to read you just a few of the more popular items that have been recalled.
I know these have been in my kitchen. I have fed these to my children in the past, Nestle Sundae Cones, Keebler Soft Batch Homestyle cookies, Kashi Granola bars, Luna brand cookies.
I mean, we're talking some pretty major brands that bought some of their ingredients from Peanut Corporation of America and are now subject to this recall.
But, Campbell, I want to be very clear, because there has been so much confusion about this. There are many, many peanut products that are not subject to this recall that really are OK to eat.
So, let's take a look at those. The jars of peanut butter that you buy in the supermarket, they are OK, according to the FDA. Jif, Peter Pan, Skippy, Smuckers -- those products were not made by the Peanut Corporation of America. They were made in totally different plants by totally different companies. Those are OK.
BROWN: But even though they are not being recalled, they're still being hurt by all this, right?
COHEN: Oh, my goodness. Their sales have plummeted since all of this has happened. So let's take a look at some of these numbers. They are very dramatic.
Peanut butter sales are down overall 24 percent. For example, Skippy Super Chunk sales down 54 percent. Peter Pan sales down 45 percent. And, remember, these brands are fine. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with them, but consumers are so worried that they are just skipping out on the peanut butter altogether. No pun intended.
BROWN: So let me ask you this. If this company did, in fact, knowingly send out contaminated peanut products, I mean, what's the punishment? COHEN: This is where some people say it gets really outrageous. Right now, the punishment would just be one year in jail and/or $1,000 fine. That is it. If the FBI can dig up more dirt on them, maybe that gets bigger, but the jail time doesn't go up very much as it's been explained to us.
BROWN: That's incredible and that's for knowingly sending this stuff out.
Elizabeth Cohen with us tonight with all the details. Thanks, Elizabeth.
COHEN: Thanks.
BROWN: And we should let people know, too, you can get more information about this case, about the peanut recall and all the various products by going on CNN.com/campbell. It's all there.
Coming up, the first lady goes glam. A top fashionista dishes on her "Vogue" magazine cover shoot.
Also ahead, why some zoos will be rated "R" this Valentine's weekend.
And later tonight, an hour with the heroes of the Hudson. Survivors of Flight 1549 say thank you to the crew and their river rescuers. That is "LARRY KING LIVE" tonight at 9:00 Eastern.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Remember that koala bear we showed you last night? The little lady, take a look, who barely escaped those terrible bushfires down in Australia. We're going to let you know how she's doing a little bit later. But first, Joe Johns with tonight's "Briefing" -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, eight people are now confirmed dead. And a state of emergency has been declared in 17 counties after last night's devastating tornadoes in Oklahoma. The town of Lone Grove may have been hardest hit from winds that reached 170 miles an hour. Much of the area still without power tonight.
Heavy rain in the Dominican Republic has claimed six lives, including a British tourist. The storms have flooded a church, a school and dozens of homes in the Santiago province.
Baseball star Miguel Tejada has pleaded guilty to lying to Congress about his knowledge of players using steroids. The Houston Astros' shortstop told a House committee in 2005 he had no such knowledge. Now, he admits he not only talked about steroids, but purchased human growth hormone from a former teammate while he was with the Oakland A's, though Tejada says he changed his mind and never used it.
And all across the country, love will be in the air this weekend and not just among humans. Zoos from California to Pennsylvania are inviting visitors to come in and watch the animals mating. One zoo in Battle Creek, Michigan, has even labeled their event Zoorotica. In Minnesota, it's being called "loving on the wild side."
You know, Campbell, whatever happened to just going to a nice romantic movie?
BROWN: I was going to say. We were sort of thinking dinner and a movie, but maybe we're just not as hip as some of those animal watchers.
Anyway, Joe Johns tonight. Joe, thanks.
Coming up next, the extended family of the octuplet mom is growing to include you. She is hoping you're going to pitch in to help. And guess what? You already are. We will explain, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Fourteen children, including eight newborns, one parent, no job. And tonight, a lot of people are wondering how that kind of math adds up for the mother of the California octuplets. So who is paying, and what does it cost? Our Randi Kaye has been crunching the numbers for us on this.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So many numbers, Campbell, to keep track of, really in this case. A lot of people asking how did this single, unemployed mom afford in vitro fertilization.
She apparently told NBC that she used disability payments that she had received after an injury on the job, but that doesn't mean you, the taxpayer, won't be kicking in some cash right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NADYA SULEMAN, OCTUPLETS' MOM: Hi Malia (ph). Your eyes are open.
This is Noah. And he's -- he's doing well. He's really well. He's not on oxygen or anything. He's the blonde one. He's one of the tiniest one that was the troublemaker and that's why --
KAYE (voice-over): You didn't have these babies, but you may be paying for them. That's their mom, Nadya Suleman on NBC's "Today Show" with her octuplets. But behind the kisses and the coos is a mountain of bills.
At 33, Suleman is single, unemployed and now the mother of 14 children. She had six others before the octuplets were born. "The L.A. Times" reports Suleman is $50,000 in debt from student loans, the very loan Suleman has said she plans to use to help support all her children while she gets a masters degree and a job. She'll have to pay back those loans. But here's where you come in.
You see, Suleman had originally told NBC she wasn't getting any government aid, but we've learned she is. Her publicist told us she gets $490 every month in food stamps. That's in line with what Suleman is now saying. Asked once again about living on welfare, NBC says Suleman admitted she's been collecting food stamps for the last year and a half.
SULEMAN: No, I'm not living off of any taxpayer money. If I am, if it is food stamps, it's a temporary resource. We receive no cash. And it's every month, $490, and that's only for food.
That's an excellent resource if used appropriately and not for too long. So it's not affiliated with welfare.
KAYE: Her publicist also told us that three of Suleman's six older children get government disability assistance which Suleman confirmed on NBC when asked about her autistic son.
SULEMAN: I will need help with him. More help. So the other two children, just for little disabilities, it's a temporary resource and I want them off of it, because I don't want that to influence their future. And they received it now for maybe three months. So they'll be re-evaluated in another couple months.
KAYE (on camera): Suleman told NBC that she's receiving about $600 a month for each of her three disabled children. That's about $1,800, plus $500 more in food stamps, a total of $2,300 a month.
(voice-over): Suleman's publicist has said offers for book deals and more are rolling in, which will help pay the bills. But in the meantime, the mother of 14 has set up this Web site. Yes, it thanks people for their support, but right there on the main page, a little pink heart with a note, click here to make donations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So Randi, I mean, what does she plan to do now to pay for these kids?
KAYE: She says she plans to go back to college. She's on a leave of absence there right now, so she's going to get a masters degree, go back to school, get a degree and then get a job hopefully. But so much money is involved here. It reportedly took 46 doctors, nurses and other medical professionals to perform the delivery of the octuplets. It's unclear how much that cost, who will pay for it.
Estimates from CNN's medical producer suggests the cost of the babies' care alone at the hospital all this time could actually top $1 million. The hospital won't say if it plans to waive any of those expenses, given all the publicity that the hospital has been getting.
BROWN: Right.
Randi Kaye for us tonight. Randi, thanks.
Straight ahead, my NO BIAS, NO BULL interview with the Las Vegas mayor who is accusing President Obama of trying to turn Sin City into a losing bet.
And it seems so innocent, so civilized, so why is PETA comparing the nation's best known dog show to the Ku Klux Klan? The answer in our "Political Daily Briefing."
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYANA BANYON, PUBLIC SCHOOL 11: Dear President Barack Obama, I would like to congratulate you on winning this year's election. By you winning, many children's dreams of one day becoming president may come true.
Last November, I lost my grandfather, and the trouble he faced was not having proper health care. It's very expensive. Please, Mr. Obama, please have -- please help all people get affordable health care. Sincerely, Kyana Banyon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That was Kyana Banyon. As you just heard, she's a third grader at Public School 11 in Brooklyn, New York.
To send us your letter, look for the iReport link on our Web site, CNN.com/campbell.
And time right now for the "PDB," our "Political Daily Briefing." Joe Johns back with us.
And Joe, Michelle Obama set to grace the cover of what some might call the "PDB" fashion bible, "Vogue" magazine, right? Tell us about it.
JOHNS: You could definitely say that, Campbell. Michelle Obama may be the first ma'am, but she's also all about glam. The first lady has been chosen as the cover girl of "Vogue" magazine's March edition. The photographs taken by famed photographer Annie Liebovitz over at the Hay-Adams Hotel where the Obamas were staying a few days before the inauguration.
Our very own Lola Ogunnaike sat down with "Vogue's" editor-at- large, Andre Leon Talley, to get the scoop on the shoot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDRE LEON TALLEY, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "VOGUE": To walk into a room with her, you just feel the old-school values of impeccable manners and great civility is what she's all about. And she's about human kind. In many ways, you sit down with her and there's this naturalness.
It's all natural. It's all graceful. It's all very up front. This cover represents -- it represents the warmth and the naturalness of this lady from Chicago, who grew up in Chicago in very modest, humble beginnings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: And you'll get to see more of that on AMERICAN MORNING. Campbell, although "Vogue" has a long tradition of putting first ladies in the magazine dating as far back as the Hoovers, only two have actually made the cover. Hillary Clinton, being the first, Michelle Obama, the second.
BROWN: And various (ph) photos here, Joe. On to another famous face, though. I hear Sarah Palin has ruffled some feathers within the Republican Party. What's that all about?
JOHNS: Yes, you know, if you want to run for president, it's probably smart to rub elbows with the bigwigs of the party. And former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin pulled a political no- no really when she declined to attend the annual Conservative Political Action Conference, CPAC. A bit to do in the Grand Old Party features an annual presidential straw polls, speeches from big Republican icons, Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh and Coulter.
Palin was slotted to be the headline attraction before she pulled out. A spokesman didn't give a reason for that other than just say it would be hard for the governor to attend the conference while a legislative session in Alaska was going on.
BROWN: All right. Not a good way to win friends and influence people, I guess.
JOHNS: Probably not.
BROWN: And moving to a different topic, Joe, why is the KKK being associated with the Westminster Dog Show?
JOHNS: Yes. That's a stretch, isn't it?
Well, you have to ask the animal rights group PETA, or People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. They staged their annual protest just outside the American Kennel Club's Westminster Dog Show in New York City yesterday. Some are saying PETA went too far, when members of the group were dressed in full Ku Klux Klan robes and head gear for the protest. PETA says the Klan gear was to protest -- OK, ready for this -- the American Kennel Club's push for a master race or purebred dogs. Pretty amazing, right?
On to a lighter note, Campbell, we can tell you about the dogs, of course, and show you the winner. This is the special win of this year, the oldest dog in the history of the competition to take Best in Show.
A brown Sussex spaniel shocked the crowd taking away the award. He is ten years old. That makes him about 70 years. I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.
BROWN: Grandpa wins it. All right.
Joe Johns for us tonight. Joe, thanks.
Coming up everybody, some encouraging news on that koala who became a symbol of Australian's determination to come back from those devastating wildfires. Also up next --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANELLE SHIMSHI, SHIMSHI'S WIFE: You think about it. Do I want to go and spend $4.50 on a smoothie or do I want to go put a gallon of gas in my car to get back and forth to work, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: If only it was as easy as pulling a rabbit out of a hat, what a Michigan or a magician, rather, and his family are doing to try to make the recession disappear.
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BROWN: In Washington, all the talk is about the economic stimulus bank bailouts, corporate fraud. But for people across the country, it's about checkbooks, it's about groceries, it's about mortgages.
And we've been taking an up-close look at how families, just like yours, are trying to cope with this crisis. And tonight, our series "The Ripple Effect" takes us to Las Vegas where our Dan Simon found a one-man vanishing act, literally relying on magic to make ends meet.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JERRY SPRINGER, HOST, "AMERICA'S GOT TALENT": From Las Vegas, Nevada, please welcome, Shimshi.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He was featured on NBC's "America's Got Talent." He's a magician who goes by his last name, Shimshi.
SHIMSHI, MAGICIAN: That was my childhood dream to make it to Las Vegas.
SIMON: And he did make it earning more than six figures with high-paying gigs at casinos and trade shows, but he says he can no longer provide for his wife and 3-year-old daughter.
(on camera): Once considered recession-proof, Las Vegas is now hurting. Convention and tourism traffic is considerably down and last year, gaming revenue fell by 10 percent, the sharpest decline in state history.
(voice-over): Shimshi did well with corporate gigs until they started scaling back on their own perks and budgets.
SHIMSHI: Companies are just canceling left and right, you know. And they have contract. They give away 50 percent money down and still, you know, they cancel. They can't do it.
SIMON: They live in Henderson, a Las Vegas suburb. The bills and debt collections are mounting. What's been the hardest thing?
JANELLE SHIMSHI, SHIMSHI'S WIFE: Just not knowing where the money's coming from. You know, not knowing where, you know, how are you going to pay a mortgage?
SIMON: They realized they could no longer afford the $875 a month for their daughter's preschool. With so many families struggling, the school is still allowing some children to attend for free, but that means their own belt tightening, fewer supplies, and cutting hours for teachers.
LONNIE PRITZLER, PRE-SCHOOL TEACHER: There's one parent a week who's losing their job, whether it's the mom or the dad.
SIMON: For the Shimshis, even the exterminator became something of a luxury they had to eliminate. They're not alone.
RON ROLLWITZ, EXTERMINATOR: I've had several calls this week from clients that have told me, you know, they've been laid off or they've cut their hours back, and so, you know, they're going to have to suspend pest control.
SIMON: Another ripple, the couple's side business failed, a smoothie shop. They put their savings into a store they thought would provide steady income. The business took a nosedive last summer and closed just as fuel prices hit $4 a gallon. Seven part-time employees also lost their jobs.
J. SHIMSHI: You know what? You think about it. Do I want to go and spend $4.50 on a smoothie or do I want to go put a gallon of gas in my car to get back and forth to work?
SIMON: Shimshi is only 29 and still has the optimism of youth. He is convinced that he'll pick up more work.
SHIMSHI: If you underestimate the power of magic, you're so wrong, you can't imagine.
SIMON: He has an event lined up in Japan, but the money is less than usual. For now, he only uses credit cards in his act.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SIMON: Well, thanks to Shimshi for indulging us there at the end. But, Campbell, no one is immune to the layoffs here. You're talking about dish washers, Black Jack dealers, cooks, you name it. And it all begins when you have less people coming to those casinos behind me. It has a very profound ripple. Back to you.
BROWN: All right. Dan Simon for us. Dan, thanks very much.
And speaking of what happens in Vegas, the mayor there has got a bone to pick with the president over something that the president said at Monday's town hall in Elkhart, Indiana. It almost seemed like a throwaway line at the time. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: You can't get corporate jets. You can't go take a trip to Las Vegas, or go down to the Super Bowl on the taxpayers' dime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman says that's outrageous and he wants the president to apologize to his city. We spoke with the mayor just a little bit ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Mayor Goodman, do you really believe that the president owes Las Vegas an apology?
MAYOR OSCAR GOODMAN (D), LAS VEGAS: Not so much an apology as more of righting a wrong. I think that the message didn't get across the way perhaps he intended it to have limitations and accountability on the part of companies that receiving stimulus money coming to Las Vegas. But the bottom line is the public has misunderstood and all they heard is people not come to Las Vegas to have their business meetings. It's our economic lifeblood and for him just to straighten the record out would do us an awful lot of good and I think he owes it to us because when the president talks, people listen.
BROWN: But mayor -- I hear you, but he wasn't trashing Las Vegas. I mean, he was trashing junkets. He was saying there's a problem with junkets.
GOODMAN: It doesn't matter.
BROWN: And you can understand that, right?
GOODMAN: No, no, no. People don't understand that. Even I when I heard the comment, it just sounded as though you don't want to come to Las Vegas, you don't want to go to the Super Bowl and that's a message that was across there. And we're getting calls from businesses who are going to have their corporate meetings here to do serious business are backing off. They just don't want to have the perception, which was alluded to by the president.
And it's so easy to just say very simply, you know, Vegas is a great place to have your business meetings. It's a wonderful place to go to, end of story. That would rectify the record and that's all I'm asking for.
BROWN: But -- OK. But we all have a stake in how they spend taxpayer money, you know, and a lot of people say that these companies should just stay home. Not go to Vegas, not go anywhere, frankly. Stay home, save the money altogether.
GOODMAN: Well, you know what --
BROWN: Because -- let me finish -- because this is a national crisis, where every city, every state, is suffering in some different way. It's not necessarily about Las Vegas.
GOODMAN: No, and I understand what you're saying. But at the same time, tourism and commerce depend on having people get together to express ideas to have meetings. And all I'm saying is Vegas is the best place in the world to have those meetings. We shouldn't stop that. That stimulates the economy.
People get on airplanes. They come out here. They have their meeting. They do serious work. They put money into our economy, and that's the way the American economy works with people being able to have discourse in a business environment and Las Vegas provides that.
BROWN: Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman, we appreciate you coming on and making your case tonight. Thanks very much.
GOODMAN: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And we'll be right back.
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BROWN: We're out of time. That's going to do it for us.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
