Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
More Investigative Documents, Photos Released in Caylee Murder Case
Aired February 18, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthonys` confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide, this after a utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair. The killer duct tapes the child`s mouth, then finishes off by placing a heart-shaped sticker over the child`s mouth.
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, still sorting hundreds -- hundreds -- of police investigative files and literally over 1,000 crime scene photos taken by land, by air. Is this the nail in the coffin for the tot mom defense? Caylee`s tiny skeleton discovered triple bagged like she`s trash, her body encased in two trash bags and a tan laundry bag. Police reveal when tot mom learns behind bars police find Caylee`s body, she hyperventilates, demanding medication.
As we go inside tot mom`s personal diary, we learn she writes on June 21 she`s the happiest she`s been in, quote, "a long time," and she hopes, quote, "the end justifies the means," this after we learn cops narrow Caylee`s disappearance between June 16 and June 27.
In another bombshell, prints on duct tape around little Caylee`s skull clear grandmother Cindy, grandfather George, and brother Lee. But what about tot mom? We also learn police match the heart-shaped sticker on Caylee`s mouth, diapers, laundry bag, garbage bags, duct tape on Caylee`s skeleton all from the crime scene back to the Anthony home, clothes in that bag even bearing the same manufacture code as those in Caylee`s closet. And tot mom blaming chloroform in the car trunk on cleaning supplies, going on to point her finger directly at former lover Jesse Grund, claiming he had a key to the car, a car that was likely 2-year-old Caylee`s first coffin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stunning developments today in the case of 2-year- old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. In documents just released, evidence shows the duct tape found on the gas cans owned by the Anthonys is the same color, size and model as the duct tape used over little Caylee`s skull.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee`s grandfather, George, said Casey had his gas cans in her trunk in mid-June, after he reported them stolen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDFATHER: She didn`t want me to go in the trunk of the car. I just get back where the passenger rear taillight is to her car, she throws open the trunk. She says, Here`s your f-ing cans.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not only that, but investigators recovered numerous heart-shaped stickers inside the Anthony home. A heart-shaped sticker was intentionally placed over the duct tape found on Caylee`s skull. Crime scene investigators also detail the discovery of the remains, saying that quite a bit of hair was still visible on the skull and the hair was holding the duct tape in place.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I`m not control over any of this because I don`t know what the hell`s going on. I don`t know what`s going on. My entire life has been taken from me! Everything has been taken from me!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, will hundreds of pages of police documents, thousands of crime scene photos taken by land and by air, tot mom`s own personal diary, duct tape evidence -- is it all poised, poised to send tot mom Casey Anthony to Florida`s death row?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m trying to make sure that I`m not going to give anybody anything else to throw against me. Even if with me giving them nothing, they`re still doing it!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the case of 2-year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. Just released documents show the duct tape found on Caylee`s skull is similar to duct tape found in the Anthony home. Evidence also shows that a canvas bag found in the Anthony home is the same make and color as a canvas bag recovered at the crime scene. Interviews with friends of the tot mom reveal some shocking revelations, including that tot mom Casey Anthony wanted to be committed to a mental institution.
CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The over 500 pages include crime scene reports, photos of the remains site, list of items recovered from both the Anthony home and the wooded area, as well as a detailed narrative of the discovery of the skull of little Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: I have to keep my mouth shut. I have to keep my mouth shut about how I feel and everything else because all I need to do is give the media more stuff, and the detectives and whoever else, to throw back in my face when this goes to trial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Kathi Belich there in Orlando, joining us from WFTV. Kathi, what`s the latest?
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, the latest is that there`s evidence that was found in the Anthonys` home that matches up to evidence at the crime scene -- a laundry bag the exact same make that was found with Caylee`s remains. Also, there was a similar heart sticker, a backing for a missing heart sticker that appears to be similar to the heart sticker that was placed on the duct tape over Caylee`s mouth.
Another bombshell in these documents, that Cindy told investigators when they came to the house in December after the remains were found that she told someone to go to the scene a month earlier and look around, and she claimed at that point that nothing was found. And that could be the explanation behind that videotape that we had gotten showing their private eyes videotaping a search around that scene a month earlier.
Also, as you said, the body triple bagged, two black plastic garbage bags, a laundry bag, as well. The diary seeming to indicate that she believes she made the right decision. She doesn`t say what that decision was, but she talks about how happy she is and that she hasn`t been that happy in a long period of time. Again, everything about Casey and nothing about Caylee being missing. At that point, Caylee would have been missing for five days.
GRACE: You mentioned the heart-shaped sticker matching up to a sticker, an empty spot on a sticker sheet. Explain that to me.
BELICH: Could be. There were several heart-shaped stickers found at the Anthony home, but one of the things that was also found was the backing for a heart-shaped sticker, that heart-shaped sticker being missing from the backing. And obviously, they took that from the house, so there must be some possible correlation there.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Explain the significance.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Oh, Nancy, you can match up the adhesive that they found on the duct tape with the adhesive on the backing where that one heart is missing. Also, on the duct tape, Nancy, there was a specific brand of duct tape that was found...
GRACE: Henkel.
BROOKS: ... around -- Henkel, which is one of the largest manufacturers of duct tape in the country. That also apparently matched back to the duct tape on the red gas can that was found there also.
GRACE: And also, Mike Brooks, there were bits of duct tape there at the scene that were also Henkel duct tape. I want to go back, Mike Brooks, over exactly what we know now.
Everyone, just released -- we`re still sorting it all as we go to air. We are showing you part of thousands, literally over 1,000 crime scene photos that have just been released. This is under Florida discovery law. You are seeing photos taken from the home. You`re seeing crime scene photos. And the photo you just saw with little Caylee`s pants circled, those pants match pink striped pants found in the bag with her skeleton. Take a look. Those apparently are the pants found in the triple bag with Caylee`s skeleton.
And speaking of the triple bag, back to Rory O`Neill with Westwood One, joining us at the jailhouse. Explain to me about the triple bagging. Up until now, we had been told double bagged.
RORY O`NEILL, WESTWOOD ONE: Right. Well, it was double bags of two plastic bags, two plastic garbage bags, that by the way, match the similar kind found inside the Anthony home just a couple blocks away. And then they were placed inside this laundry bag. And it, too, had a similar partner that could be found inside the Anthony home. The bag was the same make and made by the same corporation. So they again are two things that tie the crime scene back to the Anthony family home.
GRACE: To Natisha Lance, our producer standing by also at the jailhouse there in Florida. Natisha, her private diary was also taken. Take a look. You`re seeing a canvas laundry bag at the Anthony home, same model, even, and color as the canvas bag found at the site of Caylee`s skeleton. These laundry bags, if police dig, they`ll be looking to find if they came out of the same box.
Back to Natisha Lance at the jailhouse. Natisha, this is a treasure trove for the prosecution. Here you are seeing tot mom`s private diary. And I`m stunned. I`m stunned, Natisha. Even if you want to believe that tot mom is innocent, explain to me -- the police have narrowed down her being killed between June 16 and June 27, the day her car was first observed abandoned. In this time, on June 21, tot mom writes what in her diary, Natisha?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. June 21st, Casey Anthony makes a diary entry, and she talks about how she`s the happiest she`s ever been. She also goes into saying that she has new friends. She said that she hopes that she`s made the right decision. She doesn`t know, but she said she hopes that she will soon see. She also goes into saying that she hopes this brings -- this justifies the means -- the end to the means. And she also talks about she hopes that the future holds a lot more positive things for her to come.
GRACE: Does she mention anything, Natisha, anything about her daughter? Because by her own admission, when her mother confronts her in July, Caylee has already been missing for 30 days, at least 30 days. So at this point from her own admission, Caylee is at the very least missing, Natisha.
LANCE: That`s right, Nancy. There`s no mention of Caylee in this June 21st entry. We haven`t seen all the diary, but she does go on to mention these new friends that she has. She said that she had positive people in her life and she hopes that the future holds a lot more positive things for her. And as she said, it`s the happiest that she`s ever been.
GRACE: Well, you know what, Natisha? She`s going to make a lot more new friends behind bars.
Let`s unleash the lawyers, Susan Moss, Alan Ripka, Doug Burns. Weigh in, Susan.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: She writes this diary at least five days after this child goes missing, and she says that the ends justify the means? To the prosecution, I bet this sounds pretty keen because it sounds like a confession. She writes she has no regrets, that she trusts her judgment, that she`s made the right choice. This sounds like a confession.
GRACE: Doug Burns, there`s apparently nothing in that diary about nanny Zanny stealing the baby.
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, sure. Of course. And that totally undermines the red herring that she put out there earlier, and she never should have put that out there that early. Big mistake.
GRACE: What about it, Alan?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The bottom line is you don`t know what she`s talking about in that diary. And she could be talking about her boyfriend or the social scene.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: The only reason that I don`t want to be here is so that I can be at home so that I can get Caylee back faster. That`s the only reason. It`s all I care about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigative documents show duct tape was found on the mouth area of the skull later identified as little Caylee. CSI experts even had to cut hair attached to the skull just to remove the duct tape. When the remains were brought to the lab, investigators discovered that a heart-shaped sticker had been intentionally placed on the duct tape.
CASEY ANTHONY: Everybody wants me to have answers! I don`t have any answers because I don`t know what`s going on!
I`m just as much of a victim as the rest of you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators found a canvas Whitney (ph) laundry bag in the Anthonys` home that is exactly the same as the laundry bag Caylee`s remains were found with. They also found the backing for a heart-shaped sticker in the Anthony home, a sticker removed. It could be the sticker they found at the scene that they say appeared to have been intentionally stuck to the duct tape around Caylee`s mouth. Investigators are comparing the duct tape found with Caylee to duct tape on the Anthonys` gas cans, the ones that Casey had stolen in late June after Caylee disappeared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back out to Natisha Lance, our producer there at the jailhouse. We also learn from these documents that according to the tot mom, her parents, George and Cindy Anthony, had tried on more than one occasion to get custody of little Caylee. What do we know?
LANCE: That`s right. This was according to her friend, Annie Downing (ph). She talks about how Cindy is a horrible person. She says that George and Cindy had tried to get Caylee on more than one occasion. She also goes into saying that at a birthday party for Caylee, Cindy was the one who was acting like mom. She said that Cindy had asked Caylee to call her "Mom." She said that this was a day that was supposed to be Caylee`s day, and Cindy was apparently helping Caylee open these gifts. And Casey was saying that she was the one who should be helping Caylee open the gifts because it`s her daughter and it was her birthday.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. He suffered the kidnap and murder of his little girl, Polly. Marc, this is a treasure trove for the prosecution. What do you anticipate?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, first of all, my heart is just broken by these revelations. What I anticipate is that every -- it`s item after item after item that connects the home with the crime scene where Caylee`s remains were found. Taken individually, they might not mean much, but when you start piling them on top of each other, it points directly to somebody within the home.
We know that Cindy insisted on the 911 call. We know that George didn`t want to live without having Caylee in his life. And we also know from the evidence that was released today that Lee encouraged Annie Downing to be forthcoming and tell the police the truth and not cover up for Casey. We know that, given the fact that all of this -- all of these items were in the house and at the crime scene, that that also really eliminates Zenaida Gonzalez. She didn`t have access to the house. Really, it leaves the only conclusion being that Casey Anthony did this crime and most likely acted alone.
Now, I think what they`ll probably try to do at this point is cut some kind of a plea bargain. I don`t know, though, that the prosecution would want to have anything to do with that. I suspect that they probably will want to pursue the death penalty, and I truly believe in my heart that`s exactly what this woman deserves, if, in fact, all of these things prove to be true.
GRACE: And also, to Steve Helling, writer with "People" magazine, who has been covering the case for some time now. Steve, welcome. We also learn about the tot mom`s reaction behind bars when she learns police have found little Caylee`s remains. Explain.
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Yes, she had a panic attack when that happened, an anxiety attack. She started hyperventilating. She asked for medication. And it`s worth noting that at other times where there were questions whether bones were found or something, she had no reaction at all. But when these bones were found at this scene, she had a very, very severe reaction.
GRACE: Demanding medication.
To Dr. Joshua Perper, the chief medical examiner in Broward County, author of "When to Call the Doctor." Welcome, Dr. Perper. Dr. Perper...
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD CTY CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Thank you.
GRACE: ... this is just frankly the beginning. There is more discovery to be released by the state. And I`m wondering -- Dr. Perper, we know now that the police took Bissel cleaners, wet vacs and vacuum cleaners from the Anthony home.
Everyone, you are seeing just-released photos from inside police files, thousands of photos, including crime scene photos taken by land and air.
Dr. Perper, what would they find in a Bissel, a wet vac or a vacuum cleaner?
PERPER: Well, they may find evidence of blood, for example. You have to remember that the central reason why this is a homicide and why the medical examiner made this determination is because of the tape. And everything else around it`s like filling a puzzle which until now fits the fact that, indeed, the mother is responsible for the act, for the crime.
GRACE: And it`s very possible that the crime scene was, in fact, the home. Dr. Perper is talking about police confiscating Bissel cleaners, wet vacs and vacuum cleaners from the home.
As we go to break, the Joan Gaeta Lung Cancer Foundation treats the number one cancer killer in the world, lung cancer, claiming more lives than breast, colon, prostate, melanoma and kidney cancers combined.
P.S. You don`t have to smoke to get lung cancer. Joan Gaeta, a beloved wife, a mother of five, a teacher who lost her battle with lung cancer. In her honor, the second annual Dancing for Joan fundraiser, it`s for lung cancer research, this Saturday, February 21, Marietta, Georgia. For info or to make a donation, go to Dancingforjoan.org.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve been praying every single day for insight and everybody`s thoughts and everybody`s feelings, so I know where you stand, where you`re coming from. And I know where you`re sitting right now, and Mom and Lee and Joe Schmo walking down the block that`s seen this every day on the media for the last month.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Awful, awful. Sick.
CASEY ANTHONY: I can understand everybody else`s side of this, but the worst part is that nobody can see my side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A treasure trove of discovery released by police and prosecutors. As we go to air, we are just now still sifting through all of it, over 1,000 crime scene photos, which we are showing you continuously throughout tonight`s program, as well as hundreds of pages of documents, including what was taken from the Anthony home, what was found there at the crime scene, the tot mom`s private diary.
To Steve Helling, writer with "People" magazine. In fact, Steve, as it relates to the clothing found in the bag with little Caylee, the ID number from the manufacturer matches that same number in the collar (ph) taken out of a closet in the Anthony home.
HELLING: Yes, that`s absolutely right. And that just goes to show that whoever killed Caylee had access to this home and had access to the closets in every part of that home and...
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Following up on what Steve Helling with "People" magazine has just said, Susan Moss, Alan Ripka, Doug Burns -- Alan Ripka, who else but the tot mom would be responsible? Who else would have access to all of these items? I mean, nobody in the home had ever seen Zanny the nanny.
RIPKA: Well, first of all, you have to agree that the tape and the pants and all the things that you mentioned earlier are necessarily connected to the murder and connected to the house. Following that, this is a circumstantial case. There`s no direct evidence. She didn`t admit it. No one saw her do it.
GRACE: I asked you a direct question. Who else but the tot mom could be responsible with all these items relating directly back to the home?
RIPKA: Well, first of all, the items are (ph). But there are friends that were in the house. There`s other family members in the house. And it`s up to the prosecution to prove the case. It`s not up to the defense to prove who else it might have been.
GRACE: Doug Burns, be pragmatic, Doug, because, you know, to be a good defense lawyer, you have to be anticipate what the state`s going to do and vice versa. So where do you go, as the defense, in light of what we have learned today?
BURNS: No, I agree it`s a very strong case. However, I also agree with Alan that, in a sense, the way you`re going to defend is this is to say that -- you know, put all the hyperbole, all the bad behavior on her part out the window and just focus, ladies and gentlemen, on the fact that we don`t have specific proof of exactly what happened.
GRACE: OK, Susan Moss...
BURNS: But I still think it`s a hard case.
MOSS: Maybe that would be possible if you didn`t have a defendant who`d opened up her mouth and wrote this damning diary. But you`ve got a defendant who`s made statements about a Zenaida, who no one can find and who has never been in this house, and you have all these connections between the house and the crime scene. She`s dug her own grave.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: It breaks my heart today that Casey is not here to honor her child whom she loves so very, very much.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Casey deserves prayer, she deserves understanding, she deserves love.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: CMA, I miss you. I love you. CMA, I am so proud of you.
C. ANTHONY: I`m sick and tired of hearing, you know, she`s already tried and convicted.
G. ANTHONY: What can I say? You -- believe your child, you put faith in everything, you know?
C. ANTHONY: That I love her and I support her and I understand and every day that goes by, I know exactly how hard it is that she`s giving up her life to protect her child.
L. ANTHONY: This family is united, but this family is incomplete.
C. ANTHONY: This little child right here, she is the victim in all of this. Casey is also a victim in all of this.
G. ANTHONY: Do not form any judgments because I`ll tell you, you don`t want to be in any of our family`s shoes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When investigators collected the evidence from the house after Caylee`s remains were found, they say in the documents that Cindy Anthony told them a Winnie the Pooh blanket was missing from Caylee`s bed. Caylee`s remains were found with a Winnie the Pooh blanket.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Straight to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Now how did we learn about the Winnie the Pooh blanket, that it was actually missing from the home?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: Actually, Cindy told investigators that when they went to the home after Caylee`s remains were found to get more evidence that would possibly correspond with the evidence they found at the crime scene. She offered that information to them that the Winnie the Pooh blanket was missing from the home.
GRACE: So there`s no speculation, Mike Brooks.
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: No, none whatsoever, Nancy. And you know, as you know, those kind of things usually come in a set. There is a little label on just about everything from a t-shirt to the Winnie the Pooh blanket. And usually you have what you call an RN number. That`s a mail number so you can go back and find out where it was manufactured, where it was distributed to and where it was sold.
GRACE: I want to go back to Natisha Lance.
Natisha, I also understand that there was a book recovered, I assume, from the tot mom`s room in the home about raising children and then had been earmarked and lined, highlighted on a section regarding tantrums, when children throw tantrums?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. There was a child or parenting book that was found in the home and police did note that there were certain pages that were earmarked that had to do with child tantrums.
GRACE: I understand it said, Dr. Deltito, holding the line when your child throws a tantrum. What does that mean?
DR. JOSEPH DELTITO, PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY: I`m not sure what holding the line means but one could wonder if she did something to control a tantrum which led to the accidental death of the child and then all of this is the cover-up, secondary to it.
GRACE: But, Dr. Deltito, how would that explain Google searches on the computer days and days ahead of the death regarding chloroform?
DELTITO: I`m not talking about the totality of the case and she probably did it and it probably wasn`t an accident. I`m just saying that there may have been a moment in which it actually happened, which was a quasi accident, which is the way some people allow themselves to do things, leaving some doubts in their own mind that they really meant to kill the kid. I`m speculating, of course.
GRACE: Oh, I see. You`re saying that, rationalizing to yourself, the defendant may have explained to herself, brainwashed herself that it was an accident?
DELTITO: I think that people do this sometimes, that they`re thinking of doing harm to someone and then they set it up in such a way that to themselves it was a semi accident, it was something that needed to be done. They become very forceful in how they may punish a child, discipline them, thinking that it`s for their own good, but meanwhile they have really malice in their own heart.
But in their own mind, they`re trying to elicit something for themselves to allow them to live with it in some sort of way. So I think there are a lot of sort of these pseudo-accidents which might occur.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, Mark, you have been through this. What are the Anthonys going through? And also what do you make of the tot mom`s reaction behind bars when she learns the body of her little girl has been found?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Nancy, when we found out that Polly was dead, I had the presence of mind to observe an awful lot of people, including family members, law enforcement, certainly Polly`s mother. And everybody reacted very differently. So I think it`s kind of hard to read anything into that immediate reaction, although, again, it does tend to be very telling.
As far as what the Anthonys are going through, the person that I feel so much sympathy for is poor George. It just seems to me that this was a toxic family to begin with and this poor guy has been stuck in the middle and the only remnant of sanity he seemed to have to hold on to was his relationship with this beautiful little girl who has been taken from all of them and now he`s just watching his family disintegrate.
I hope that he finds purpose in his life and is able to utilize his skill set as an investigator to assist other families who find themselves in this kind of a situation.
GRACE: And we understand.
KLAAS: That would be my hope for him.
GRACE: Marc, we understand he`s already doing that, in the search for little Haleigh down in Florida, Satsuma, Florida.
I want to go to Rory O`Neill, Westwood One Radio. Rory, also, we hear the tot mom explain -- or try to explain -- why her trunk was saturated in chloroform.
RORY O`NEILL, REPORTER, WESTWOOD ONE RADIO, ON LOCATION FROM TOT MOM JAIL: Right, during that brief time when she was released from prison and before when she was jailed on check fraud charges, and before she was indicted for murder, she was back at the home and she told some friends that her car was filled with other cleaning chemicals, which is what somehow combined to give them a false test of chloroform coming from the trunk of her car.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, is that possible that household cleaning items can somehow transform by sitting them in your trunk into chloroform?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": Well, it depends if they are mixed, sometimes it can happen. But that`s very unlikely.
GRACE: Very unlikely.
With me, Dr. Joshua Perper, out of Broward County. And also -- back to Natisha Lance, I understand she points directly in these documents we`ve just got in our midst on, directly pointing the finger at her former lover Jesse Grund. What did she say?
LANCE: She said that Jesse Grund had keys to her car and it`s possible that he may have come and done something to her car after it was abandoned.
GRACE: What is she saying, Mike Brooks, that Jesse Grund came along and dumped a dead body in her car trunk?
BROOKS: Yes, where else he got some chloroform and he put it in the back of his car. I mean, again, she just goes right -- points her finger at somebody else. It`s never about her, it`s always someone else.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Susan Moss out of New York, Alan Ripka and Doug Burns, joining her.
Doug Burns, in light of all this -- now we understand the defense attorney has gone to the hospital with a stomach ailment.
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: Where does the defense go? I`m talking about Baez, not Linda Kenney-Baden. Where does the defense go?
BURNS: They don`t go anywhere. I mean, basically, the prosecution has got to prove the case. While we`re analyzing it in great detail and effectively in the media, the reality is it`s got to be.
GRACE: Would you put Burns back on the screen? OK, so, Burns, what you`re telling me.
BURNS: Yes.
GRACE: . is if this were your case, as a defense lawyer.
BURNS: It`s up.
GRACE: . you wouldn`t go anywhere. You would sit there and you wouldn`t put on a shred of evidence? You wouldn`t mount a defense.
BURNS: Oh no, no, no. I`m sorry, I didn`t mean that.
GRACE: OK. What`s your defense?
BURNS: What I meant is -- no, what I meant is, obviously, the case begins in court. It doesn`t matter how many media shows have been done.
GRACE: Yes, I know that.
BURNS: That`s when it starts.
GRACE: What`s your defense?
BURNS: And then I`m going see how it plays out in court. There may be no defense because under a little piece of paper called the Constitution, I don`t have to put one on, obviously.
GRACE: OK.
Alan Ripka, what`s your best defense?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The bottom line, Nancy, is what I`m going to do is I`m going to hit each piece of evidence they get admitted, and that`s a big step. They get it admitted.
BURNS: Right.
RIPKA: We`re going to hit those pieces of evidence methodically. For example, the duct tape. The duct tape could be anywhere from anywhere in the entire country, as well as many other things. We`re going to show there`s no intent. We show there`s no direct evidence.
So that`s the job of a defense attorney to go one piece at a time and put reasonable doubt into the jury`s minds.
GRACE: But, of course -- back in Mike Brooks -- intent can be formed in the twinkling of an eye in the time that it takes you to raise a gun and pull the trigger. So (INAUDIBLE) can be formed like that. But what I`m wondering about is, they clear grandmother, grandfather and uncle with the duct tape fingerprints but not the tot mom.
BROOKS: No, they have not said exactly what was on that tape, because -- the way they talked, Nancy, in the reports, it says that basically the duct tape was held on the head by the hair. So they had the cut the hair off and then evaluate the duct tape that way. So we still don`t know, though.
GRACE: Everybody, as we go to break, a special happy birthday to Tennessee friend of the show Martha. She never misses a show.
We think the world of you, Martha. And happy birthday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: I spend the day almost completely by myself. Completely and utterly miserable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right after little Caylee`s remains were found in the woods on December 11th, detectives searched the Anthony home for any evidence that would link back to the crime scene. Now Local 6 has learned more about one of those links.
Investigators took plastic bags from the Anthony home which we now know look visually the same as the black plastic bags with yellow handles which once held the toddler`s body.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A page from Casey`s diary contains disturbing passages considering her daughter had disappeared just days before. On June 21st, she wrote that she had, quote, "No regrets, just a bit worried. I just want for everything to work out OK. I completely trust my own judgment and knew that I made the right decision. I just hope that the end justifies the means. I just want to know what the future will hold for me. I guess I will soon see."
CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on.
C. ANTHONY: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down.
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody is letting me speak. You want me to talk but.
C. ANTHONY: All right, I`ll listen.
CASEY ANTHONY: Give me three seconds to speak.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You`ll have plenty of time to speak at trial if you take the stand, tot mom.
Just released, our staff is still sifting through it all. Hundreds of pages of documents over a thousand photos taken of the crime scene, as well as the Anthony home. You are seeing some of these photos, as many as we can show you vials and vials of soil sample, bug samples taken from the crime scene, all divulged in these documents.
And within a couple of hours after the documents being released, all of these photos, we hear from the defense, Jose Baez, claiming the entire pack of documents is one-sided, contains junk science, is speculative and biased, and goes on to suggest that even fingerprint evidence is unreliable.
OK. Mike Brooks, if that`s going to be the defense at trial that fingerprint evidence -- print evidence is unreliable, based on a "New York Times" article sometime back claiming that forensic testing is really shallow and cannot be depended on, they`ve got a long way to go if that`s where they`re headed.
BROOKS: Oh yes. The FBI lab is unreliable, Nancy. Fingerprint evidence which has been used for years is unreliable. Jose Baez is inexperienced.
GRACE: He also says the Anthony case may be one to set a precedent in exposing the laws of evidence that only law enforcement has tested.
Out to Susan Moss, Alan Ripka, Doug Burns -- Susan Moss, isn`t it true that under our constitution, the defense has the right to test all the evidence themselves including the forensic evidence?
SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely. And the judge in this very case has made orders so that they can do so. I think they`ll have better luck going back to the Zenaida Gonzalez defense.
GRACE: Well, the problem is, Alan Ripka and Doug Burns, as Susan points out, Alan came up with an excellent theory to try to explain the fact that the killer had so much access to the home. Let`s look at friends, relatives, people that come in and out of the home, someone that wanted Caylee.
But the problem is that she`s already blamed Zanny the nanny, claiming the nanny kidnapped the child at Jay Blanchard Park in broad daylight. Remember that little problem? That`s going to come back, Doug Burns, just like a boomerang to bite the defense in the neck. They can`t go anywhere. They`re stuck with that.
BURNS: No, no. no. There you hit it right on the head. When we were discussing earlier about how to defend the case, you could easily defend the case except they`ve got all these consciousness of guilt stuff piling up. One month delay in reporting, Zanny the nanny. That`s the type of stuff that`s the strongest of all. You`re absolutely right.
GRACE: To Dr. Joshua Perper, joining us out of Miami -- Dr. Perper, do you anticipate that even though at this juncture police have only cleared grandmother, grandfather and uncle off the duct tape that there are prints on the tape?
I mean, for them to say that they`ve cleared these three people, doesn`t that suggest that they are comparing prints off the tape?
PERPER: Well, we don`t yet if there are prints on the tape. Perhaps the tape was attached very firmly. There will be fingerprints on the inside of the tape. But remember, the skull was in water and any fingerprints might have been washed away.
GRACE: Back to Steve Helling, writer with "People" magazine, so where does this leave Jesse Grund? She`s pointing the finger at him, suggesting he could have put a body in the car trunk after it was abandoned. And how does that jibe with her earlier statements the nanny took the baby?
STEVE HELLING, STAFF WRITER, PEOPLE MAGAZINE, COVERING STORY: Well, it`s a totally different defense. And, you know, we`ve spoken with Jesse Grund before and -- you just understand that he knows that he`s going to be the one who she`s going to point a finger at. And that`s why he has representation, just to defend himself from that. It may come out in trial, but she`s still going to have to explain the whole Zanny the nanny defense.
GRACE: And Dr. Joseph Deltito, back to you regarding her personal diary that was taken by police out of the home. You see so much conflict between the tot mom and her mother, Cindy Anthony, who has stood staunchly by her from the very beginning. Basically, an intense hatred. And it seemed to manifest over Cindy`s love and receipt of love from little Caylee.
DELTITO: Well, it sounds to me like Casey abdicated a lot of her parent duties to Cindy and Cindy was functionally operating as mommy, and Casey, in some ways, was out of the loop in certain ways, probably of her own choosing, but nevertheless, may have had animosity about the developing relationship, even though she left the child in the care of Cindy.
GRACE: You know, that`s a real double-edged sword. That`s a dichotomy, Dr. Deltito, because, I`m just thinking back when one of the twins` grandparents visit the twins. It makes me so happy for them to be together. But I don`t believe there`s ever been a point I`ve even asked someone else to change a diaper because that`s my duty. And the child is going to love whoever takes care of it, who loves it back.
DELTITO: That`s exactly true, and that`s why it`s not unusual that the child might have called Cindy Anthony mama on occasions, as been reported.
GRACE: Susan Moss, what do you make of it all?
MOSS: What I make is that this is a very disturbed family and that the apex is a very disturbed girl.
GRACE: Don`t care. Don`t care. Don`t care who`s disturbed. I care about who killed Caylee and will it be proven in court. That`s what I`m talking about.
What do you make of these revelations?
MOSS: Yes and yes. There is so much evidence tying the house to the crime scene. No one else had the type of access that Casey had especially to her car, especially with the chloroform evidence, especially with the -- the air samples which shows that there was a dead body in that car.
It is too tight. If she doesn`t take the stand she goes down and if she takes the stand she goes down by her own word.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
C. ANTHONY: Anything you want me to say to Caylee, anything (INAUDIBLE) or anything?
CASEY ANTHONY: Just tell her that I love her, that I miss her. I mean that`s -- that`s the constant.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators found a canvas Whitney laundry bag in the Anthonys` home that is exactly the same as the laundry bag Caylee`s remains were found with. They also found the backing for a heart-shaped sticker in the Anthony home, a sticker removed that could be the sticker they found at the scene that they say appeared to have been intentionally stuck to the duct tape around Caylee`s mouth.
Investigators are comparing the duct tape found with Caylee to duct tape on the Anthonys` gas can, the one that Casey had stolen in late June after Caylee disappeared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are showing you, throughout our program tonight, just released crime scene photos. There you see the crime scene where little Caylee`s skeleton was found triple bagged into two back trash bags and a laundry bag. All three matching bags found in the Anthony home.
Back to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there at the jail house. Natisha, what do you believe is the strongest evidence that has been revealed today?
LANCE: Well, some of the strongest evidence, Nancy, are those things that are tying back to the Anthonys` household. That Whitney Design laundry bag, as well the garbage bag and that Hinkle duct tape.
GRACE: Right.
LANCE: . that we`ve heard about previously.
GRACE: What about it, Marc Klaas?
KLAAS: Well, I completely agree. It occurs to me -- it`s the totality of the information.
GRACE: Right.
KLAAS: . that`s coming out. Everything that`s putting the various crime scenes together.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop, let`s remember Army Staff Sergeant Darris Dawson, 24, Pensacola, killed Iraq on a third tour. A leader, he just took charge of an eight-man squad. Loved pickup basketball. His nickname on the court, Smoke. Leaves behind parents Darrell and Maxine, widow Latasha, four children.
Darris Dawson, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
