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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Interview With Ann Coulter; Helping the Octomom
Aired February 19, 2009 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, GUEST HOST: Tonight, Ann Coulter -- love her or hate her, you know you've got to listen. There's no telling what she'll say about Obama, bipartisanship or the octo mom.
Then, with 14 kids under age seven and seven out of 10 Americans saying she's unsympathetic, what should Nadya Suleman do now?
Octo mom outrage or opportunity?
It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Hello and thanks for joining us.
I'm Joy Behar sitting in for Larry tonight.
And what a great night to fill in because joining me in New York is Ann Coulter.
You could say she's a little controversial, she's a little country, she's a little rock and roll. And she's got a new best-seller out, "Guilty
Liberal Victims and Their Assault on America."
We'll get into that and a lot more.
But first, let's talk about our new president.
Welcome to the show, Ann.
ANN COULTER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Thank you.
Good to be here.
BEHAR: Is there anything you like about Obama?
BEHAR: Oh, wow!
COULTER: He -- he was totally playing the "Daily Cause" kids for fools on national security. He's basically continued Bush's terrorism policies. Guantanamo is not getting shut down. We're not pulling out of Iraq... BEHAR: Not yet.
COULTER: In fact, he's increasing the war in Iraq. He's continuing the rendition. I think either he knew this all along or he got in, got the national security briefings and said I can't let "The New York Times" run national security. That's too dangerous.
So I had high hopes for him the first few weeks, though the stimulus bill sort of dashed those.
BEHAR: So you would like him to continue torturing people, is that what you're telling me?
COULTER: We don't torture people, Joy.
BEHAR: We don't?
That's not what I heard.
COULTER: No. Though, if they're really bad -- no.
BEHAR: If they're really bad, we torture them.
COULTER: I was going to say, they start showing them old issues -- old "Views."
BEHAR: "The View." Oh, yes, you've on the show.
That -- did you feel we ganged up on you last time?
BEHAR: Or somewhat?
COULTER: It was a lot of fun. It was like the sisterhood of the traveling pants.
COULTER: I'm expecting cards and letters from all of you.
BEHAR: Listen, you sold a lot of books that day. "The View" sells a lot books.
So what do you care if we ganged up on you?
COULTER: I didn't say you ganged up on me. You did.
BEHAR: Well, you sort of acted like we did.
COULTER: No, I said it was a Joyful occasion.
BEHAR: People felt that you were pissed when you left. I'm just saying -- OK. So what do you think about this stimulus bill?
Do you think that...
COULTER: I think it's a disaster.
BEHAR: You think it's a disaster.
COULTER: It's the Reward Failure Act of 2009. I mean it's not -- I like the title and so did most Americans. Support for it went from about 80 percent when people only knew the title to about 37 percent as people would find out more and more about it -- stimulative of big huge government programs. It rewards failure.
And who's going to be left holding the bag?
The middle class of America.
BEHAR: Yes, but, you know, your party has done nothing in the past eight years to fix any of this. They ran up the deficit.
COULTER: Well, it only started last fall.
BEHAR: I don't know what you're talking about.
COULTER: I mean the whole economic crisis started last fall. I promise you, McCain wouldn't have been our nominee. Nobody was talking about this until the fall of last year.
BEHAR: Well, nobody...
COULTER: The economy was fine until then.
BEHAR: Nobody seemed to have any foresight at all.
COULTER: No, everybody knew. It was exactly like the dot-com boom.
BEHAR: Well, then why didn't the Republicans do something?
COULTER: Because they were making money.
BEHAR: They were in pain.
COULTER: Well, everybody -- why wasn't everyone doing something?
People knew it was coming the same way people knew that, you know, Pets.com 10 years earlier wasn't worth more than G.M. and G.E. and IBM combined. People knew that these Internet stocks weren't worth as much as people were paying for them. People knew that these subprime mortgages we're not -- that the housing couldn't keep going up forever.
BEHAR: But what... COULTER: But as long as you're making money, it continues. It happens with all sorts of things.
BEHAR: But the Republican Party has now basically turned its back on this, except for three people -- Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins and Arlen Specter, right. So those are the only three Republicans who say, OK, we're going to...
BEHAR: ...we're going to try and do something.
What have Republicans come up with?
COULTER: No, that...
BEHAR: They have no plan.
COULTER: OK, first of all, there is no clear evidence that those three -- Collins, Snowe and Specter -- are Republicans or I would demand that Michael Steele cut them out.
BEHAR: You're just saying that because they don't agree with you.
COULTER: No, no, no. Look, I mean, when you get every Republican in the House plus 14 and then nine Democrats voting against this bill, that's where the bipartisanship is -- against the creeping -- it's not creeping socialism, it's galloping socialism and it's -- it's theft. It's immoral.
This -- it's shocking, the stimulus bill...
BEHAR: You exaggerate.
COULTER: I'm not exaggerating.
BEHAR: You exaggerate.
COULTER: And the only hope is that Republicans will come zooming back in two years and it won't go into effect because...
BEHAR: Do you...
COULTER: ...because this is a disaster. And, by the way, people -- people who think that just because their taxes aren't going up right now -- OK, you know, maybe I won't benefit from the stimulus bill, but I won't be hurt -- you will be hurt.
BEHAR: Would you...
COULTER: You will be hurt.
BEHAR: Would you -- let me ask you...
COULTER: Everything you've made until now will be worth half as much. BEHAR: All right.
Would you rather that it fail so that the Republicans can be back in power in 2010...
COULTER: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
BEHAR: ...rather than try to do something for the American people?
COULTER: No. It has nothing to do with being back in power...
BEHAR: But last -- answer the question.
COULTER: No. I've answered.
BEHAR: Would you -- would you -- well, let's say it passed...
COULTER: It has nothing to do with Republicans being in power.
BEHAR: Let's say it does really work.
COULTER: It can't.
BEHAR: What if it does really great?
How do you know?
You don't know that.
COULTER: Because massive socialism has never worked. I mean, Argentina tried it. Japan tried it. They have higher I.Q.s than we do. You can't borrow a trillion dollars. We don't have a trillion dollars. You know what that means, Joy?
That means you either are here in hock to China.
COULTER: And there is definitely massive inflation, because you start printing money. That means any dollar you have today will be worth 50 cents in a few years.
BEHAR: But who are we indebted to for the Iraq War, for example, where we spent a trillion dollars also?
COULTER: OK, but the -- look, each...
BEHAR: And Bush and his people brought the deficit up incredibly.
So who are we in debt to for that?
COULTER: Yes. And the deficit's very bad. And Republicans have been the ones talking about it for years.
BEHAR: I never heard... COULTER: I think it was Bob Dole who said...
BEHAR: Oh, Bob.
COULTER: Let them -- let them run on the deficit. We've been running on it for 30 years. Americans don't care. Each president, because of spending of the government, each president has a bigger deficit than the last one. You know what the entire deficit...
BEHAR: Wait a minute. Wait, but take a break.
COULTER: The entire deficit under George Bush that you're so worried about is $400 billion. This stimulus bill was nearly a trillion.
BEHAR: Well, that's not true. First of all, everybody knows -- and we're -- I'm not a political person exactly. But everybody knows at this point that George Bush got a great surplus when he came into office and he squandered it. Everyone knows that.
COULTER: It's -- it was a surplus on paper.
BEHAR: Oh, I see. OK.
Now, are you frightened or gleeful that Rush Limbaugh seems to be the head of your party these days?
COULTER: Oh, I think it's fantastic.
COULTER: Yes. I'd rather have somebody -- I mean I hope -- actually, we do have one -- not that I'd rather have some, but I would like more Republicans running for office who can talk like Rush Limbaugh can.
BEHAR: Do you consider Rush Limbaugh a Republican?
I consider him extreme right-winger. I don't consider him a Republican.
COULTER: An extreme right-winger...
BEHAR: Don't you think?
COULTER: ...with 20 million listeners.
BEHAR: Well, you know, that doesn't mean anything to me.
BEHAR: That he has 20 million listeners?
COULTER: It does when you have...
BEHAR: That doesn't mean that 20 million people are agreeing with him, you know.
BEHAR: It means that they're listening.
COULTER: I think it means something...
BEHAR: A lot of people are very masochistic and they'll listen to Rush Limbaugh.
COULTER: You're saying that his 20 million listeners hate him and disagree with him?
BEHAR: No, not all. But not everybody agrees with him.
COULTER: If you're describing someone as extreme, I think it can't be someone who is massively popular with -- with the American people. I mean that's -- that's dead down the center.
All right, let me ask you something else. Now you -- now, one of the...
COULTER: Do you listen to Rush, by the way?
BEHAR: I used to work with him. I was on the same station.
COULTER: But you don't listen to him?
COULTER: Well, OK.
Then how can you even describe him as extreme?
We could interview one of the 20 million people who listen to him everyday.
BEHAR: But I'm not that into somebody who filibusters like that. I like a conversation.
COULTER: You don't listen to him.
How do you know he filibusters?
BEHAR: Because I worked with him for three years and I know what he does.
BEHAR: I used to work with him in the early '90s. I had a radio show on WABC Radio.
COULTER: OK. So from 20 years ago, you have decided you know that he is an extremist? BEHAR: I see him all the time. I know...
COULTER: When he has 20 million listeners.
BEHAR: I know his routine. I know his rap.
COULTER: More than anyone on TV. More than Oprah.
Do you think everybody watching Oprah hates her?
BEHAR: I don't know.
COULTER: They're just watching it out of schadenfreude.
BEHAR: Out of schaden...
COULTER: Would you ask Oprah...
BEHAR: OK. You know, we've got...
COULTER: Do people hate you?
BEHAR: Do people hate you?
I'd like to ask you that?
BEHAR: Do you think that people hate you?
COULTER: No. Not when I have seven "New York Times" best-sellers. No, I'm -- I'm very popular.
BEHAR: But you -- no, you can't have everybody love you. Not everybody loves you, Ann. People think that...
COULTER: You asked me if people hated me.
BEHAR: I know. But you say...
COULTER: And suddenly...
BEHAR: You're saying...
COULTER: ...(INAUDIBLE) saying no they don't hate me...
BEHAR: You're saying, though...
COULTER: (INAUDIBLE) everybody loves me.
BEHAR: But you said because you sell books that makes you people -- that makes you think that people love you.
BEHAR: Just because... COULTER: I said that indicates to me that they do not hate me, which was the question, Joy.
Has Ann ever dated a liberal?
You'll find out if you stay with us.
We'll find out later.
Don't tell me now.
BEHAR: OK. We're back with Ann Coulter.
You know, I actually read your book, Ann. I'll plug it for you.
COULTER: Isn't it fabulous?
BEHAR: Yes. You've said -- this is a quote: "The media really wanted to screw Obama, but only in the sense that they wanted to have sex with him."
BEHAR: Now, what does that mean?
Did you want to have sex with George Bush?
What are you talking about?
They wanted to have sex with him?
Does Morley Safer want to have sex with Obama?
BEHAR: I mean come on.
COULTER: Probably. And I know Chris Matthews does.
What it means is I was talking about how -- how the media was treating -- I believe that's the part where I was talking about how the media switched from the Clintons, who used to be the golden boys -- or couple. She used to be so smart and he was so sexy. Well, all of that ended.
BEHAR: The media...
COULTER: The new golden boy came along. BEHAR: The media was on his case with the Monica Lewinsky thing, I included. So don't say that they loved the Clintons.
COULTER: OK. That came...
BEHAR: They were on them constantly.
COULTER: That came in the end of his administration.
BEHAR: Well, whenever, it was.
COULTER: And they still kept talking about how wildly popular he was. But he couldn't get 50 percent of the country to vote for him and I keep hearing about all the personal magnetism when he walked into the room. OK (INAUDIBLE)...
BEHAR: Well, Obama is very, very charismatic and he's very popular. He's popular in the world. They love him every place. George Bush never got that type of reception and you know it.
COULTER: You're basing that on what?
I think I can call him an extremist if you're going to call Rush Limbaugh an extremist.
BEHAR: Well, I called Rush a terrorist sometimes, too.
But you know what, someone from the right-wing media -- "National Review" editor Rick -- Rich Lowry -- do you know him?
Is he a pal?
Have you dated him?
BEHAR: OK. Well, when Sarah Palin was doing the convention, he said -- he wrote -- I just love this: "When Palin dropped her first wink, I sat up a little straighter on the couch and said hey, she's winking at me."
Do you think he wanted to screw Sarah Palin?
COULTER: No. I also don't think he's a very good writer, so quote somebody else. Ooh, like me. There's my book.
BEHAR: Oh, so you -- so, but I'm showing you that they were in love with Sarah Palin on the right the way you say that the left and the liberal media is in love with...
COULTER: Well, I love Sarah -- no, no, no, no...
BEHAR: ...with Obama.
COULTER: I love Sarah Palin. It's just not the hormonal way they do in the press. BEHAR: That's so ridiculous.
You're saying that they actually literally wanted to have sex with him?
BEHAR: OK. Ann.
Have you ever dated a liberal?
COULTER: I tried, but I couldn't take the dinky little electric car.
BEHAR: The dinky little electric car?
Is that what liberals are driving these days?
I haven't seen any in New York City.
And it's loaded with liberals.
COULTER: Did you ask if it was in New York City?
BEHAR: Well, I mean I haven't -- this is the hotbed of liberalism, New York City. I haven't seen one electric car.
COULTER: I don't -- I don't live here.
BEHAR: But you stop here.
COULTER: I do. I'm right here.
BEHAR: You go to the theater.
COULTER: I do not see a single car in this studio right now.
BEHAR: So are you saying that if -- that if George Clooney asked you out on a date, you'd say no, because he's a big liberal?
BEHAR: Well, what kind of men do you like?
COULTER: I like men, i.e. conservatives. I don't want them checking with the U.N. to get, you know, a resolution before making a move.
BEHAR: You know, it's funny that you say that, because I read this study one time. Don't ask me where, because I don't remember where I read it. But they said that conservative women have more orgasms than liberal women. Right...
COULTER: Oh, yes. That was in "Godless."
BEHAR: Why do you think that's true?
COULTER: It's heavily through the bible belt.
BEHAR: A lot of sex in the bible.
But I mean what's the reason, do you think?
I mean and do you think it's true?
COULTER: Yes. It's definitely true.
BEHAR: But why?
Based on what?
Is it because Republican women have more money and so they're more relaxed, is that what it is?
BEHAR: Or they can afford better vibrators?
COULTER: It's because they take it more seriously.
BEHAR: Oh, they take it more seriously. I thought you were supposed to have more fun in bed?
COULTER: Yes. But you're not supposed to be in bed constantly and with every Tom, Dick and Harry, including the guys with the electric cars.
BEHAR: Oh, you mean those -- those whoring Democratic women who are constantly in bed with every guy?
COULTER: Basically, yes.
BEHAR: Oh, I see. OK. All right.
BEHAR: Ann was on "The View" recently and boy, was that fun.
Find out why in 60 seconds.
BEHAR: Ann was on "The View" recently. We had a good time.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE VIEW," COURTESY ABC)
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST: We are not attacking you.
COULTER: I have never heard...
GOLDBERG: You wrote something provocative.
COULTER: ...my book read aloud like you're reading "Mein Kampf"...
COULTER: ...and I just did.
BARBARA WALTERS, CO-HOST: Can I just read a section aloud?
COULTER: And read it like you're reading "Mein Kampf" again.
WALTERS: I don't think I did that, you know?
COULTER: I think you did.
COULTER: ...out the words when I wasn't sitting here.
WALTERS: Then let me do this. Throughout John -- in this case, I'd like to discuss something current.
COULTER: Yes, that was lovely. You can do the -- the audio book. Well, we don't know that much about her. I mean... (CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not attacking you. I just don't appreciate the way you're talking to her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean nobody is attacking you. You didn't have to talk to her like...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COULTER: You're not that popular on the show, I don't think.
BEHAR: I mean Sherri had to defend Barbara against you. She felt the need...
BEHAR: ...because you said that Barbara looked like she was reading "Mein Kampf".
COULTER: Sounded like.
BEHAR: Sounded like she was reading "Mein Kampf"...
BEHAR: ...when she was reading your book.
COULTER: Yes. What a brutal attack.
BEHAR: But do you -- do you know, Barbara happens to be Jewish.
Does that a little...
COULTER: What does that have to do with it?
BEHAR: I don't know.
BEHAR: You know, why did you pick "Mein Kampf?"
COULTER: OK, if you can't mention Hitler and "Mein Kampf" when anyone Jewish is interviewing you, then how about not having Jewish people interview?
BEHAR: I'm just...
COULTER: What, do we have a list of what can be mentioned?
BEHAR: Just asking, that's all. I mean, you know what we can talk about...
COULTER: I think we need a NASDAQ ticker for which words can be used at which times by which people when talking to whom. And it would be constantly changing and updated all the time.
How about we just talk?
BEHAR: Don't you think there's room for...
COULTER: ...a good point and you're saying ooh, that was mean.
BEHAR: Don't you think there's room for sensitivity?
You know, like that cartoon that was in "The Post?"
COULTER: No. I think that is a perfect example of what I say in my book -- people playing the victim.
BEHAR: People look too politically correct.
COULTER: No, no, no, no. People playing the victim when they're the victimizers. You didn't play the way Barbara Walters read my book the first time. And she was spitting out the words like she was reading from "Mein Kampf".
BEHAR: You don't think you're a little paranoid here?
I mean she was just reading it.
COULTER: Well, I mean play it. Play it for our viewers. Let them decide.
BEHAR: Well, they saw it already. (INAUDIBLE).
COULTER: Oh, no, I don't think so.
COULTER: I liked that part.
BEHAR: All right. We've got to take another break.
What's the biggest trouble Ann has gotten herself into?
We'll ask her when we come back.
BEHAR: OK. Let's take a call from Columbus, Ohio.
Columbus, you're on the line.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Joy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I just wanted to ask Ann, it seems like her whole focus is on what, you know, is wrong with President Obama's approach to finding solutions for our current situation. And I was wondering what -- if she's truly honest with herself, what responsibility she feels like, you know, Republicans and the conservatives have in this whole mess that we're in?
COULTER: Right. They have a responsibility to the Constitution and the country, which they are fulfilling magnificently, I might add. Are -- and what we have now, as I said, is this massive socialist bill that will transfer money not to individuals, not to create jobs -- to state, local and the federal governments; that will, by the way, repeal the welfare reform provisions from the 1996 welfare reform bill that was successful Bill Clinton ended up claiming credit for it. It has provisions to, oh, redo -- at the cost of billions of dollars -- these docks that are near Nancy Pelosi's husband's rental properties.
BEHAR: All right.
COULTER: Senator Chuck Schumer...
BEHAR: Ann, it's only an hour show.
COULTER: ...just said...
BEHAR: Come on.
COULTER: Well, OK. She wants to know.
BEHAR: It's too long.
COULTER: If you want to defend freedom, you've got to vote against this bill.
BEHAR: But it's too long an answer. We have only a little bit of time left and I have more things to ask you.
BEHAR: Like have you ever gotten into real trouble?
For instance, it's interesting that you called Scott McClellan retarded in your book.
BEHAR: You said that the 9/11 widows were enjoying their husbands' deaths.
Now those are two outrageous statements.
First of all, retarded people could get offended by that.
COULTER: That is true.
BEHAR: Comparing them to Scott McClellan.
COULTER: That is true.
COULTER: And I apologize.
BEHAR: I knew you were going there.
BEHAR: No, seriously, people do not like that, when you use the word retarded in that flip manner.
And that the 9/11 widows...
COULTER: No, but I think he actually is.
BEHAR: ...were enjoying their husbands' deaths.
Where did you come up with that?
COULTER: I think it is outrageous for the media to pick on the retarded press secretary and treat him like he's suddenly Zarathustra.
BEHAR: But if he was retarded, why did...
COULTER: I mean all along...
BEHAR: ...Bush hire him?
COULTER: ...that even when he was working for Bush. Because luckily for me, I don't have a job. And I can stay home and watch press conferences. You'd only see David Gregory getting into it with Scott McClellan. And I saw the whole press conference.
McClellan could turn, you know, the fact that Bush had eggs for breakfast into an Ehrlichman-Haldeman conspiracy. So he was...
BEHAR: That's pretty clever.
COULTER: ...terrible for the job.
BEHAR: That doesn't sound retarded to me.
COULTER: No. He was terrible for the job. He was not a Bush loyalist. It was one of Bush's -- it's his Achilles' heel that he kept going to Bush loyalists, people he knew. They weren't very loyal to him, in the case of Scott McClellan. And, oh, man, we've been through the Jersey girls a million times. BEHAR: What's the problem...
COULTER: I was talking...
BEHAR: What's your problem with them?
I don't really -- I never heard this before.
COULTER: Well, they're gone now, thanks to that book. So we can move on.
BEHAR: But why do you say that people who lost their husbands in a horrible, horrible fire -- in a terrible tragedy like that...
COULTER: I didn't say they were enjoying the deaths. I said when they were going around cutting anti-war commercials, cutting commercials for Kerry, using their victim hood to prevent anyone to responding to them, they were loving that -- being photographed for "Vanity Fair." I said it. We had an argument about it. I won it. They're gone. So we can move on to three books later now.
BEHAR: So. OK, let's...
COULTER: Come on.
Didn't I insult anybody in this book?
I think there are many.
BEHAR: Well, you insult single mothers quite a bit, I think.
COULTER: Excellent. I wanted to get to that topic.
BEHAR: Yes. You do insult single mothers.
COULTER: I don't think I do.
BEHAR: Now our -- you say practically that single mothers were responsible for everything wrong in the world.
Now, I was single mother.
Am I responsible for the financial turndown?
BEHAR: Am I responsible for the housing market crash?
COULTER: No, I think I make it very clear in that chapter.
BEHAR: Was -- is Bernie Madoff is a single mother?
COULTER: Moreover, you weren't an unwed mother, were you?
BEHAR: No, I was married woman, but I was divorced and then I was a single mother. COULTER: Well, OK. In that chapter, I specifically distinguish widows and divorced mothers from single mothers. We already have words for widows and divorced mothers. They're called widows and divorced mothers.
BEHAR: Why do you...
COULTER: Liberals try to include that in the category of single mothers in order to class up the category, like referring to the G.I. Bill as a form of welfare. And the statistics, by now, I mean we have 30 years of statistics. The evidence is in. When 80 percent of the inmates in our insti -- our prisons were raised by single mothers -- mostly unwed mothers. The children of widows don't turn out particularly badly.
BEHAR: But there are tons of people out there who were raised by single mothers who are doing quite well.
COULTER: Sure. This is looking at it from the other end. And when you have...
BEHAR: Well, why not look at it from that end?
COULTER: Well, because that's 80 percent of the prison population.
How about 80 percent fewer crimes?
How about the fact that, according to a liberal policy institute, if you remove the factor of single motherhood -- keep everything else the same -- residence, socio-economic status, income -- the difference in black and white crimes disappears?
BEHAR: Why (INAUDIBLE)...
COULTER: That is destroying the black community.
BEHAR: Why don't you blame the men who knocked these women up?
COULTER: Because they're not celebrated.
BEHAR: And, also, what do you think about Bristol Palin?
She's a single mother.
COULTER: I think she should give the child up for adoption or marry the father. I mean I say in that -- I sell -- I think the people who should be revered aren't the baby mommas, they are the people who have shotgun marriages. Apparently a lot of those shotgun marriages worked out because they used to have them a lot and the divorce rate was lower.
BEHAR: So you would rather that Bristol -- Bristol Meyers, I was going to say.
(LAUGHTER) BEHAR: What's her name?
Bristol Palin marry the guy, even though maybe...
COULTER: Or give the child up for adoption.
BEHAR: And then...
COULTER: I think I'm very clear about that.
BEHAR: ...give the child up for adoption.
Do you know what the ramifications of giving a child up for adoption...
COULTER: Yes, I do. I write about it in the book.
BEHAR: It's not that easy a thing, Ann.
COULTER: Well, for the child, it's a lot better. And that's what I'm talking about. The real victims here are the children who are being bought. The worst lottery ticket you could buy your child, being raised by a single mother. The best lottery ticket you can buy your child is to give the child up for adoption.
BEHAR: It's too simple...
COULTER: Just don't venerate these women...
BEHAR: We're not venerating anybody.
COULTER: ...and hold them up as -- yes, they are.
BEHAR: Agree or disagree...
COULTER: Then you haven't watched anything out of Hollywood.
BEHAR: ...with Ann, a lot of you are talking about her on Larry's blog.
And here's David Theall to tell us about it -- David.
DAVID THEALL, LARRY KING LIVE PRODUCER: Hey, listen, Joy, we certainly have been talking about Ann's appearance throughout the day. We've been monitoring the comments during your conversation with her. Some of the things we're hearing: "bomb thrower," "very disappointed," "venomous." And this: "I like Ann Coulter."
While you go to the blog, CNN.com/larryking, check out the exclusive extra that we have on the blog from an upcoming guest -- somebody you're going to be talking to here very shortly.
That's Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar. They have 18 kids -- 18 -- 18 children. You're going to be talking about the octo mom here very shortly. And they have given us a blog extra about how to save money when you are raising kids these days. Again, that is at CNN.com/larryking. Look for that blog link. Jump into the conversation. We look forward for -- to hearing from you -- Joy.
BEHAR: Thanks, David.
They have a lot of tips, the Duggars.
Thank you, Ann, for coming on.
COULTER: Thank you.
BEHAR: You were fine. You were great. I loved -- I loved talking to you. Really.
When we come back, an exclusive -- a new plan to pay for the octuplets and their siblings.
But is it going to cost you anything?
Find out when we come back.
BEHAR: Is there help for the octo mom's mom, whose home -- she lives -- she lives with her parents and six other kids -- is facing foreclosure.
Yes, I think that's how I said it.
Whatever. Keep moving that prompter.
OK. Joining me now is attorney and family rights advocate Gloria Allred and Linda West Confroti and Jackie Peebles, both of the charity group Angels In Waiting.
Gloria held a news conference earlier today, calling on the octo mom to accept a proposal to provide for the medical and emotional needs of her 14 children.
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY & FAMILY RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Joy.
ALLRED: Thank you, Joy, for having us. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
BEHAR: So tell us, what are you and Angels In Waiting offering Nadya and her children?
ALLRED: Well, I think that this is a terrific option for Nadya and all of her 14 children, because Angels In Waiting is a charitable foundation that Linda has founded. And essentially they will provide professional nurses, educational development specialists like Jackie, who's with us today, to care 24/7 for these little babies, to provide the medical, the emotional, the educational support that they need so they get the proper bonding and the proper support that they need, because these are high risk babies. These are medically fragile infants, the octuplets and Linda, who is a fabulous registered nurse who has been taking care of babies for 25 years who specializes in medical fragile infants at high risk, she knows how to do this. She's even won an award at Kaiser for her work for these types of babies.
BEHAR: OK. Who is actually funding the angels in waiting? Who is paying for this, Gloria?
ALLRED: They're a charitable foundation. If in fact Nadya accepts their wonderful invitation and understands that this is an opportunity to benefit all of her children to keep the family together, to provide the support, then they would need the support of the public to help to compensate the professionals who provide the care but, Joy, this will mean that the taxpayers will not have to pay anything for that kind of support for those babies.
BEHAR: That's good news, Gloria, but how long will that last? That kind of support?
ALLRED: Well, it will last for as long as they can support her and as long as this family needs her and they're saying maybe six months. That depends on the medical condition of the babies.
BEHAR: Then what is going to happen after six months?
ALLRED: Well, I mean, they have to approximate it because they're not apprised of the medical needs of the babies are yet. And they do will if Nadya accepts the invitation.
But not one cent that the public donates to this foundation will go to Nadya or any member of her family. It will be used for the professionals that provide that loving care and specialized care and support to these babies.
BEHAR: Do you think the children will be in danger if they were left with this woman?
ALLRED: I'm concerned, Joy, about the possibility of endangerment to all of the 14 children and that is why I filed last week a complaint with the Los Angeles County Department of Child and Family Services to investigate, which did not make public until day, but I did and I think that if Nadya does not accept this as an option and we hope that they do accept angels in waiting for her little angels, that the Department of Child and Family Services may decide to investigate if they are not already doing so and may decide when those babies are released from the hospital to take them from the mother, from Nadya, place them in foster care and then public agencies would be having to provide the support that Angels in Waiting could but later and maybe not as well and of course then the burden would be on the taxpayers.
BEHAR: I see. OK. Thank you, Gloria, very much for sharing that with us. What does the octomom need to do? Could she lose her kids? We'll talk about that right after this.
BEHAR: Joining me now is public relations and celebrity crisis expert Howard Bragman, psychotherapist Dr. Robi Ludwig and a former family circuit court Judge Larry Seidlin, not Judge Judy's husband, Judge Larry Seidlin who presided over the Anna Nicole Smith case. Let me throw out a question about what we heard from Gloria. Do you think the assistance from the Angels in Waiting, is that a viable plan?
DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It's a temporary plan. It's not a permanent solution. We need to think about the welfare of these children regardless of what the public's feeling is about this woman and realize, hey, listen, these kids could be seriously at risk and we should provide whatever interventions we can.
BEHAR: Do you agree with that, Howard?
HOWARD BRAGMAN, P.R. AND CELEBRITY CRISIS EXPERT: Well, I think a viable plan is the parents taking responsibility for kids that they have. This whole concept wasn't viable from the beginning and that's the tragic part but now that we're there, I do hope people step in. Certainly the public is not happy about funding this, Joy, as they have shown and expressed many, many times.
BEHAR: I know a lot of people are very angry with this woman and in fact 70 percent disapprove of her and do not like the whole idea. Judge Sheidlen - Seidlin. I keep calling you Judge ...
LARRY SEIDLIN, FAMILY COURT JUDGE: You can call me Judge Larry.
BEHAR: Judge Larry, OK. You were the judge for Broward county's family division, right?
BEHAR: What would you say to Nadya Suleman if she came before you right now?
SEIDLIN: I would say this, I spent 28 1/2 years on the bench and most of my time was in the family court and then by coincidence I got married at age 50 and we had one little girl through in vitro. What's happening is the notion of this woman having eight babies and also having six children prior to that, so she has 14 children under the age of eight, turns off the American society. They're saying to themselves, how does she support these children financially? How does she support them emotionally? And people are concerned about those issues.
BEHAR: Let me ask you, Dr. Robi, what is the mental state of a woman like this? You're a shrink. What do you think?
LUDWIG: You know, clearly this woman is looking to fill a void and might even have a fantasy of what it means to have lots of children but does it match up with reality? And I think the problem here is this woman is attending to her own needs perhaps to get unconditional love, perhaps to be the mother that she never got or had.
BEHAR: There's a narcissistic disorder? Is that what you're implying?
LUDWIG: Well, I'm actually thinking more of a borderline personality disorder where there's a feeling of boredom and emptiness. Sometimes when a woman is pregnant they can then feel purposeful and fulfilled and also this type of personality is fear abandonment. She fits in more with that type of personality disorder.
BEHAR: Well, I'm reading in some of the research that she had three miscarriages after divorced from her husband, I don't know where those babies were coming from, and then she was suicidal.
LUDWIG: And so also borderline personality disorders can have mood instability and be suicidal and make suicidal attempts. I think it's also interesting that she had these children without being in a relationship. I think that also says something about her as well.
BEHAR: Sure. It says something about her. But the woman is clearly in trouble. Howard, is this a public relations nightmare for someone like you having to deal with this situation especially when she's so unpopular with the American public? What would you do with her?
BRAGMAN: You know, I'm sort of the patron publicist of lost causes with clients like Naomi Campbell and Isaiah Washington and Ed McMahon.
BEHAR: The St. Jude of Public Relations.
BRAGMAN: I don't want to go that far. I would not touch this. I cannot fix this. I'm a publicist and not a miracle worker. Sometimes you just have to shovel after the parade, Joy. This is a disaster. And I can't make it better. Because it's that bad.
BEHAR: What if you had to? There was a gun to your head and you had to help this woman. What would you do, Howard?
BRAGMAN: I would talk about the children. Because right now, and it's true. It's all about the kids. Whether they got there, how they got there and whether it was right or wrong, those are all irrelevant issues right now. Right now it's about ensuring the best future we can for these eight children and we all have to take responsibility in it because I don't think the mother is fit to in my humble opinion and there's also a P.R. point to this. We don't know if she started to sell book rights and she claims she's not getting money for the media interviews and things like that yet today it's being reported that she's looking at million dollar houses. Where is the money come? And I don't believe in using children as ATMs. The more you give away of the privacy of your kids, the more money you get. It's just not a fair trade off for these kids.
BEHAR: OK. Thank you for the moment.
More on the octomom coming up. And later. Later we'll meet the Duggar family with 18 kids. One at a time I think almost. Stay with us.
BEHAR: OK. We're back. Doctor Robi?
BEHAR: Do you think that this woman, Nadya, do you think she wants the media attention? Is that another part of the craving? Is this some Munchausen thing in here? What's going on here?
LUDWIG: You know, she probably likes the attention. I think that's why people are responding to her so negatively. They are wondering if there's a manipulative component. Did she have the children so that she could get attention? Perhaps that was part of it. I don't know if she put the whole media piece together but maybe she felt Angelina Jolie was her idol and this would make her more like Angelina Jolie. You don't know what's going on in her mind but clearly she's enjoying it. Because that's a part of our culture, appearing in the media.
BEHAR: That picture of her naked with the belly out, she must have seen the "Vanity Fair" magazine with Demi.
So she could be idealizing women in the media who seem to have lots of children and this is her way of emulating them and making even becoming famous. We don't know.
BEHAR: Dr. Larry, do you feel sorry for her? I know that you cried at Anna Nicole's trial. Do you feel like you want to cry for this one, too?
SEIDLIN: Well, I'm concerned about the children. Those eight babies. And there's a balancing act here.
BEHAR: Should the state step in? Do you think?
SEIDLIN: The issue is we have to protect the state, our fabric of our society versus the private individual's right to have children. There's a balancing. And there's a balancing. How do we protect our society and how do we get the mother to have good judgment and to have enough children where it makes sense where she can provide the love, nutrition, and financial wherewithal to make sure these children become assets in our society.
BEHAR: Some people say -- I read this somewhere. I don't know where. You should have only as many children as you have breasts. So if your husband is a dependent personality for example, you can only have one.
LUDWIG: I think it does bring up ethical issues though. Where does medicine come in and how do you factor that in and right now doctors really can't say no you can't do this unless they can advise but so this brings up a whole new kind of issue. How do we deal with it moving into the future?
BEHAR: Let's talk about the hostility towards her from the American public. What's that about?
LUDWIG: The feeling is that she has an agenda and the agenda has nothing to do with actually having the kids.
BEHAR: What if American people decided she was mentally ill? Would they still be angry do you think?
LUDWIG: They might not if they felt it was not deliberate. With this woman she's very intelligent. She researches. She comes out ...
BEHAR: I may be crazy but ...
LUDWIG: You can be a crazy and intelligent. Or off balance and intelligent. So she comes off as very deliberate in her intention to have kids. And I think people feel, listen, it's neglect. It's almost like child neglect. So people are responding to the impact on these kids. And she seems to be in it for the glory. And she still looks like she had plastic surgery and still getting her nails done. So she seems like a very self-centered type of person and people are responding poorly to that.
BEHAR: Howard, do you think the mental ill verdict would be easier to promote this or to help her out publicly?
BRAGMAN: Potentially but I don't see this woman doing it. In her mind she feels like she's sane as can be. She thinks she's Angelina Jolie and Mother Teresa all rolled up in one. People don't forgive you. People don't give you the benefit of the doubt until you accept responsibility for your own actions. And we certainly haven't seen that in this case, Joy.
BEHAR: OK. By the way, to get more from Dr. Robi, check out "Cookie" magazine, she is a contributing editor. Also if you're looking for a good read, check out Howard's Book, "Where's My 15 Minutes?"
Think 14 is a lot? You'll meet the Duggar family from TLC who has 18 kids. I know them very well. They're on "The View" all the time. They are a delightful group of people. But there's a lot of them. What advice do they have for the Octomom? Right after this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE DUGGAR, HAS MANY CHILDREN: Like everything in our family it is cute (ph) when it comes to food. We have to buy bulk and save the difference. We have shelves like grocery store shelves.
BEHAR: The delightful Anderson Cooper is here to tell us what's up on AC 360. Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Hey, Joy, thanks. Today was a record breaker. And we're not just talking about the levels of tension between Joy Behar and Ann Coulter. No, it was the kind of record breaker that no one wants. The Dow Industrial Average dropping to lows not seen in more than six years. Six years. Ali Velshi is going to be here to tell us why it was a rough day for your 401(k). And how if and when the president's stimulus plan might start to turn things around.
Plus the $9 billion accused scam artist. They're calling him the mini-Madoff. And it might be even more than that. This guy, Robert Alan Stanford rubbed elbows with some very powerful politicians. We'll tell you who they are and talk about what's next for the growing number of people tied up in the scandal.
And Michelle Obama getting to know Washington. The first lady making the rounds in DC today and acting like some are describing as the eyes and ears of the president. All of that and more at the top of the hour, Joy.
BEHAR: Thank you, Anderson. Now we meet the Duggar family from their home in Springdale, Arizona. They are the focus of the TLC reality series "17 and Counting." Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar have a new book, "The Duggars, 20 and Counting." Hello to the Duggars. How are you?
JIM BOB DUGGAR, HAS MANY CHILDREN: Hello, Joy.
M. DUGGAR: Good to see you again.
BEHAR: Good to see all of you in one place. We usually have you on, but not everybody was there last time at "The View". Right?
M. DUGGAR: Yes, this is an opportunity to get to meet the whole family now.
BEHAR: Let me ask you something. What is your reaction to this octomom? Nadya Suleman, the story. What do you think about that?
M. DUGGAR: Well, I just know from my own heart, I can't judge and look at her and judge her situation. I just know from my heart and personally God changed our heart about children years ago. And so we've kind gone about it the old fashioned way. And so we are enjoying each one of the blessings that god has given us and we're thankful for each one of them. BEHAR: Right, at least you guys enjoyed having the babies, you went through the sex then the giving birth. This woman didn't have any of that, except the giving birth, which must have been rough, don't you think?
M. DUGGAR: Oh, my, I can't imagine. I had twins, but I have -- I just can't imagine having eight at once and the responsibility that that brings.
BEHAR: Why do you suppose this woman has provoked such negativity? They have a "USA Today" Gallup poll saying 70 percent of those surveyed are unsympathetic to this woman. What is going on?
M. DUGGAR: Well, you know, I feel like probably more than anything it's just the fact of the responsibility issues from their perspective, and I, you know, I imagine that's probably more of the animosity that's out there. And so -- but I do -- I just can't imagine, you know, her -- how she's going to handle that many little ones under the age of eight. That's a lot of little ones all at once.
J. DUGGAR: We just need to pray for her.
BEHAR: But you guys haven't experienced that kind of hostility for the children you have. Is that because you're married?
M. DUGGAR: I don't know. I think maybe, you know, being that God's given ours one or two at a time and we've kind of done it the old fashioned way, I don't know. We love them, we're enjoying them, and by God's grace we're taking care of them if he gives us one more. So I just think we're grateful.
BEHAR: I understand that you guys are debt free. I can't even imagine how you pulled that off. How does -- how did you do that? How did you do that?
J. DUGGAR: Well, back about 18 years ago, we saw Jim Sammon's (ph) financial seminar on DVD, and it was life changing. At that point we purposed to try to get out of debt and try to stay out of debt. And our family motto is to buy used and save the difference. We shop a lot at garage sales, thrift stores.
M. DUGGAR: Auctions. We bought our industrial kitchen equipment that way, our vehicles that way, and so we really cut corners and we live very frugally.
J. DUGGAR: That's right, we've never bought a new vehicle. So we do live -- we try to -- we know how to stretch a dollar.
BEHAR: How many cars do you have?
J. DUGGAR: We actually have probably about, what? Seven or eight right now?
M. DUGGAR: We have a lot of drivers, which is great.
BEHAR: Seven or eight cars, well, that's an expensive proposition, isn't it? Do you get public assistance of any kind?
J. DUGGAR: No, we don't -- we've never had any public assistance. Just like our 21-passenger bus, we bought at a seal bid auction for $2,100, we bought an '04 Suburban at an auction for like $7,000. Instead of $40,000 on a vehicle we ...
BEHAR: Yeah, I got it. I see what you're doing. But you have a book deal and a TV show. That's got to help. Do you think the octomom could get a TV show like you have? That might help her a lot.
M. DUGGAR: I could not imagine having that many little ones and being busy with a show. I think for our situation, our children are a lot older and our heart is really to just share with other families, encourage them that children are a gift and enjoy them while you have them because they grow up really fast. And so ...
BEHAR: Well, you keep having more. But you have plenty to still enjoy. They keep coming. I don't see that you're ever going to have an empty nest syndrome. They're going to be there.
M. DUGGAR: I hope not.
BEHAR: You guys will never be alone.
M. DUGGAR: We look forward to grandbabies then, that'll be fun.
BEHAR: You know, let me ask you one more question about her. If she did get involved in doing a reality show like you guys are doing, do you have any advice for her? What kind of show should she have? Maybe she needs a baseball team or something. What advice could you give her?
M. DUGGAR: I don't -- I really -- I don't know.
J. DUGGAR: Yeah, I think it's a full-time job just taking care of the children while they're young. Maybe 10 years from now when the kids are 10 years old, that might be an option. But when they're all small, I think there's a lot of needs. And so, I think, she'll have her hands full. As I know when we had seven that were seven and under, it was a very busy time.
BEHAR: Are you going to have some more, Michelle?
J. DUGGAR: I've always left it up to Michelle.
M. DUGGAR: We'll see. We'll take it one at a time. I would love more, but we'll see if the Lord sees fits it and blesses us with another one.
BEHAR: Do you ever say to Jim Bob, get away from me, I have a headache?
J. DUGGAR: Actually, I can't keep her away from me.
BEHAR: Oh, boy. You guys are funny. OK, thanks so much for sharing your time with us yet again. Good luck to you both. Back with more after this.
M. DUGGAR: Thank you.
J. DUGGAR: Thank you, Joy.
M. DUGGAR: Bye-bye.
BEHAR: Tonight we start Larry's weekly tribute to CNN Heroes. Tonight's featured hero is community crusader Roy Foster. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Our hero this week is Roy Foster. He is in Palm Springs, Florida. A veteran who has served in the Army for six years. He founded Faith, Love, Hope Charity Incorporated. Stand down. It assists and supports male vets struggling with addiction and have become homeless. What inspired you to help comrades, Roy?
ROY FOSTER, CNN HERO: My first motivation as a former service member, I too after leaving the military was addicted to drugs and alcohol. And at one point I became homeless and destitute, and after going into the V.A. medical center and coming out from that facility, I realized there was no help for the veterans that were out there.
How can I turn my back and walk away and leave you right here? I can't.
KING: What does Faith, Love, Hope do?
FOSTER: We provide them with food, shelter, all the bare essentials. Of course, we're talking about veterans that have been homeless and in the woods for extensive periods of time. Possibly up to five, 10 years. The basic life skills, those are the areas that we are really, really placing the emphasis.
KING: You're a hero and an inspiration to all of us, Roy. The work you do is incredible with Stand Down and Faith, Hope, Love and Charity. We salute you. Thanks, Roy.
FOSTER: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)