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Nancy Grace
Investigation Continues into Disappearance of 5-Year-Old Haleigh
Aired February 24, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Satsuma, Florida, a 5-year- old little girl tucked into bed. Five hours later, she`s gone, vanished into thin air, the back door propped wide open. The father comes home from the night shift to find not a single trace of little Haleigh.
Bombshell tonight. While members of little Haleigh`s immediate and extended family have taken multiple polygraphs and stated they passed, lead investigators say no one -- repeat, no one -- has been cleared.
Also, across the country, Grand Junction, Colorado, is there a credible sighting of 5-year-old Haleigh there in a crowded mall? As police sift through over 2,000 tips, can Haleigh`s 4-year-old little brother ID the kidnapper? The boy ostensibly in the room, sleeping with his sister when she`s snatched, the little boy describing a grown man taking Haleigh in the middle of the night dressed in entirely in black.
After FBI and police initially zero in on a local sex offender and girlfriend Misty Croslin`s cousin, police now clearing both of them. And what about that mystery vehicle that was seized for evidence? Investigators still refusing to reveal the make, model or ownership. As local police refuse to scale back the search, tonight, where is 5-year-old Haleigh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators continue to comb for clues in the case of missing 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings, who was kidnapped from her own bed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, I didn`t notice about Haleigh then until I seen the back door open, and then I go in the room and she`s gone! And that`s all I know!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the reward increases to $25,000 today, authorities say they are not planning on scaling back their investigation into what happened to little Haleigh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators are still following up on leads. They`re still following through. Nothing has been cut back as a result of what`s gone on here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are interviewing anyone who had a connection to the child, giving polygraphs and even re-questioning family members when needed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ll probably do more interviews with the family simply because, as new information comes up, they re-interview to follow up on information.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Questions still remain about what exactly Haleigh`s 4-year-old brother says he saw the night Haleigh was taken. According to the boy`s mother, the boy saw a man dressed all in black take his sister.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All he said was, I want to find my sissy, and he said something about somebody in black took her. He said that he was all dressed in black. But I didn`t question him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement experts have interviewed the boy but won`t elaborate on what he told them.
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: I`m here to plead for the life of my daughter. I want her to come home. If you have her, please send her home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And breaking news tonight on another beautiful child, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate to skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthonys` home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide, a utility meter reader stumbling on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping the child`s mouth, finishing off by placing a heart-shaped sticker over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Tonight, grandparents George and Cindy Anthony refusing to testify under oath in just 48 hours. Brother Lee Anthony says he will answer questions but that he knows nothing about the so-called nanny, never even met her. And tonight, is tot mom`s defense attorney back under investigation by the Florida bar?
But with her family facing legal questioning, it`s apparently not affecting tot mom`s appetite. She`s loading up on treats for herself -- chocolates, expensive bottled water, headsets, beauty products, all for her use in her private jail cell. And hey, she can afford it! Strangers from all across the country sending money to tot mom`s bank account at the jail, including one California man who sends in five -- one, two three, four, five -- deposits.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDFATHER: ... to push me to smile at her and hug her. I miss that kiss on the cheek, that special hug.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grandparents George and Cindy Anthony are set to be deposed this week as part of a defamation lawsuit filed against the tot mom by the alleged baby-sitter, Zenaida Gonzalez. But the attorney for the Anthonys does not want them to give a sworn depositions and is trying to get a delay. Citing them as being emotionally fragile, attorney Brad Conway says George and Cindy need more time to recover before answering any questions.
LEE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S UNCLE: This family is incomplete. I`m incomplete!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also today, controversy is swirling over someone trying to sell a doll that looks similar to tot mom Casey Anthony. The doll, which was put on eBay and later taken down, is seen wearing an American flag as its clothing. Tot mom Casey Anthony wore the same outfit to the no-clothes party last May.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I forgive whoever has her, and I just want her to come home. I just -- I just want my baby back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a 14-year-old California girl on her way to school around 7:00 AM in the morning vanishing into thin air, last seen just one block from her school. A model student, she loves to read, excited about purchasing a little lamb for FFA, Future Farmers of America. She planned to name the little lamb Nannette (ph). Tonight, where is this little girl, 14-year-old Amber Dubois (ph)?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I go to bed at night and just wake up and hope she`s going to be here! And she`s not!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are looking through hundreds of leads in the desperate search for 14-year-old Amber Dubois. Amber was last seen heading to school the day before Valentine`s Day and hasn`t been seen since. Now a private investigator working on the case says another woman that looks similar to Amber told him that on the same day Amber went missing, a group of men tried to kidnap her near the same high school that Amber herself attends. While the girl told the PI that she was able to get away, Amber`s family says Amber would never leave on her own and they will continue to search for clues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. The search for a 5-year-old girl, Haleigh Cummings, in Florida. Has there been a sighting of Haleigh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the search for missing 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings continues, authorities say they will not scale back their investigation as to what happened to the child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are five detectives that are assigned to the case. This is their case. And I feel that those five will probably stay assigned to this case because it is important. Until we find Haleigh, it is important.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Haleigh was last seen February 10th, when she was abducted from her own bed in the middle of the night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m trying to do everything to find her. You know, I`m answering any questions I have to because I know I didn`t do anything to that little girl. I would never hurt her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reward has now increased to $25,000, with Haleigh`s family praying the reward could lead to the child`s safe return.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s all I have is prayer and faith and hope.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A team of experts met with Haleigh`s 4-year-old brother after the boy`s mother says her son told her that a man dressed all in black took his "sissy."
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: And he was, like, Somebody come in, they was all dressed in black, and took my sissy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t feel like anybody should have said that. If you are that person and you feel like he could identify you, what would be your next move then, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police officials will not comment on what information the boy provided them.
CUMMINGS: If you`re watching, baby, I love you. That`s all I have to say.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight to T.J. Hart, news director with WSKY 97.3. Mr. Hart, all the family is telling me they have all taken and passed polygraphs, some of them multiple polygraphs. So why is it, T.J., that police, the lead investigator, says that nobody has been cleared?
T.J. HART, WSKY 97.3: That`s because the polygraph examinations are also sent elsewhere, too, and the results of those are never given, to my understanding, to the person who takes them. No one has been informed directly that they have passed or not passed. I don`t know why anyone would say that unless someone said, you know, We`re through here and it looks good...
GRACE: To John Lucich...
HART: ... and they take that for something else.
GRACE: OK, great. To John Lucich, former investigator and author of "Cyber Lies." John, typically, when you administer a polygraph, the person who`s administering can tell right then whether you passed it or flunked it.
JOHN LUCICH, FORMER INVESTIGATOR: Right. But it`s up to them whether they want to reveal that, and it`s up to the policy of the department whether they want to reveal that. Somebody can actually pass a polygraph in some instances and still be lying. I think that they have, based on what -- the results that they have right now, they don`t want to release that information. But often enough, when somebody walks out from taking a polygraph, if they don`t get arrested, they have this feeling that they passed it.
GRACE: Straight to Marlaina Schiavo, our producer standing by outside the crime scene. What are you hearing from the family?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we spoke to both sides of the family today, Nancy, and right now, we`re sitting here with the paternal grandmother of Haleigh Cummings. And basically, investigators really don`t have much more information than they had yesterday. They are not scaling back the search at all, whatsoever. People -- there`s been rumors that they were scaling back the search because they haven`t been doing press conferences, but that`s mainly because they don`t have main areas to search right now.
They are following up on at least 2,000 leads, we heard today from the lead investigator on the case, John Merchant (ph). And also, they are still interviewing this family.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. We are there in Satsuma, Florida, bringing you the very latest -- police refusing to scale back the search for little Haleigh.
Has there been a sighting of her clear across the country? Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHEFFIELD: When I got in for my visitation, first thing he said to me was, Mommy, I want to find my sissy. And I didn`t question him about none of it. And he was, like, Somebody come in, they was all dressed in black, and took my sissy.
GRACE: Did he say anything else identifying the man, anything at all, any characteristics?
SHEFFIELD: No. He just said that they was dressed in black, or he was dressed in black, whoever it was.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Ms. Sheffield, have you taken a lie detector test?
SHEFFIELD: I sure have.
GRACE: And did you pass it?
SHEFFIELD: As far as I know. The man that did it told me he thinks I did, but they had to send it off to Washington to the...
GRACE: And did you do it voluntarily? Did you protest, or did you go along?
SHEFFIELD: Yes, I did.
GRACE: Everyone, Crystal Sheffield announcing tonight she has taken and passed a lie detector test.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, thank you for being with us. I recall distinctly when your child, Polly Klaas, went missing, you approached police to say, Polygraph me. Do it right now. Now, tell me something, Marc. Why were you so adamant that you be polygraphed immediately?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, there were a couple of reasons. Number one, I wanted to eliminate myself as a suspect so law enforcement could then focus their full resource on whatever had happened to Polly. But more than that, we wanted to make sure that the focus stayed exactly on where is Polly and not tangential questions about the family, et cetera, et cetera.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigators are still following up on leads. They`re still following through. Nothing has been cut back as a result of what`s gone on here. I mean, they`re just -- they`re working as hard as they have been.
We never know when the one`ll come in that`ll solve the case. You just don`t know.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haleigh`s 4-year-old brother identified the man he saw who took Haleigh who came into the home that night.
SHEFFIELD: He said, Mommy, I want to find my sissy, and some man in black come in and took her.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: This is a huge clue! That means somebody planned this. That means they were probably scouting out this trailer park, and maybe, just maybe, somebody saw him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is significant psychological trauma from the separation anxiety of losing a sibling, and that can be so severe, they can clutter (ph) their fears and nightmares with reality sometimes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child has been interviewed by a team of people who deal specifically with children in situations similar to this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crystal Sheffield is not mincing any words anymore for the person who has her baby.
SHEFFIELD: I hope you`re watching this every day and see how much it hurts our family. And I hope that (INAUDIBLE) She`s just a baby! It`s tore my heart out of my chest, and I hope (INAUDIBLE) same to you. Haleigh, if you`re watching, I love you! And I miss you. And we`re going get you home safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight to Matt Zarrell, who`s been on the story from the very beginning. Matt, what can you tell me about this alleged sighting of little Haleigh?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER: Well, on Monday, the Grand Rapids, Colorado, mall, the Mesa mall, that a number of employees that reported that they had seen Haleigh in this mall. Now, investigators went out to the mall. They took photos. They took information. They even took video. And in addition, they then went to the local hotels to search for the woman who was supposed to be with this girl. Then what happened is they spoke to the Putnam County`s sheriff`s office. They determined through evidence and what they learned that it was not Haleigh.
GRACE: A sighting that raised everyone`s hopes clear across the country in Colorado. The problem is it was a false sighting. That does not mean that authorities want you to stop calling in tips. Over 2,000 tips police are sifting through as they refuse to scale back the search, this as we learn the lead investigator says even though the entire family and extended family and friends have taken polygraphs, some of them more than once, no one has been cleared.
Back to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, when you took the polygraph when your daughter went missing, how many questions were you asked?
KLAAS: Well, actually, they told me the questions that they were going to ask me in advance. And if I remember correctly, they probably only asked me somewhere between about 10 and 20 questions. And at the conclusion of the polygraph -- and mind you, this was done by a very experienced FBI polygrapher. At the conclusion of the exam, one of the agents came in and said, Well, that went very well. And that basically is as close that anybody came to telling me that I had passed the exam.
GRACE: Joining me right now, a special guest, Teresa Neves. This is the paternal grandmother of little Haleigh. Ms. Neves, thank you for being with us. Ms. Neves, I know that the lead investigator, John Merchant, came by to speak with you today and debrief you. What, if anything, did you learn?
TERESA NEVES, PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: I learned that just because they`re not having a press conference does not mean that they`re not working some leads. They do have a few good leads right now that they`re working on. Basically, they`re not going to give us a whole lot of information, but he did say that they have some things that they are working on, so...
GRACE: Ms. Neves, why is the home still cordoned off, making the family live in tents and donated campers?
NEVES: Well, we do not have to live in a tent. My son will not leave here, and therefore, we stay here in the tent to be with him. The people who donated the RV were wonderful to give him a place where he can be alone with his son and actually be warm and almost comfortable. So that was great. What was your other question, Nancy?
GRACE: I was just wondering why, Ms. Neves, they still...
NEVES: Why they still have it.
GRACE: Yes.
NEVES: OK. That is because, in the event that they get a lead or a tip from somewhere -- you know, just for instance, you know, somebody says that there was a hole in the floor where somebody could have came through - - they have that still where they can go back and collect evidence, where if they release that home, then all that evidence is pretty much useless.
GRACE: You know what? You`re absolutely right about that, Ms. Neves. And your son says that right now, he can`t go back into the home anyway. Why?
NEVES: Because Haleigh`s not there. I mean, Haleigh is one of them children who fills up a home with smiles and laughter, and you just couldn`t be there without her!
GRACE: Everyone, the reward is now up to $25,000. Please take a look at this little girl, Haleigh. Phone number 888-277-TIPS -- 8477.
Out to the lines. Amy in Illinois. Hi, Amy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. and I want to thank you for -- God bless you for, you know, trying to help all these lost children. And I just -- I want to tell the family to, you know, stay focused on Haleigh, and any differences they have, put it aside. But I was wondering, the little boy, you know, the man dressed in black...
GRACE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know if they have -- if this information is all out, but I was curious as to -- if the little boy and his sister were in the same bed, and also, if this person with the black mask had his face hidden or anything, you know, like...
GRACE: Out to Teresa Neves. Let`s answer Amy`s question. Ms. Neves, was the little brother in the bed with Haleigh?
NEVES: No, ma`am. Haleigh`s bed is a toddler bed, and it is probably, I would say, somewhere around three feet from the bed where Misty and Junior were sleeping.
GRACE: And the guy...
NEVES: And they`re not in the same bed.
GRACE: The guy that he believes he saw, was his face covered?
NEVES: I -- I cannot -- that -- Nancy, that`s things that we (INAUDIBLE) with the detectives. I don`t feel like any of that information ever should have been released because I feel like you put my grandson in danger when you say, you know, that he can identify somebody or that he`s giving clues on somebody.
GRACE: And also, the family is not to be questioning the little boy, in case this turns up to be evidence at a future trial.
Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From the heartfelt signs and drawings to the stuffed animals, the community`s love for Haleigh Cummings comes in many forms.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The more comfort you can give them and let them talk to you and pray with them, I think it helps them. Gives them hope.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have granddaughters and it just kind of hit a nerve. And I needed to come up here and do something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Allison in Florida. Hi, Allison.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good talking with you.
GRACE: Likewise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When all the perv -- the pedophiles in the area -- when the sheriff went to each one of their homes, did -- why don`t they take a K-9 unit or a cadaver dog with them?
GRACE: Well, I don`t know that they did not. To Marlaina Schiavo, our producer standing by there at the crime scene. Marlaina, have they used bloodhounds in the area?
SCHIAVO: Yes, they have, Nancy. Right from the beginning, they took articles of clothing of 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings and they had hounds all in the area. As a matter of fact, we heard from the maternal side today that a friend of Crystal also had a hound out here, as well.
GRACE: To Shelley in Kansas. Hi, Shelley.
GRACE: Hi, Nancy. It is such a pleasure to speak with you. You are just a joy.
GRACE: Likewise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, the grandmother in her he last segment just clarified that Junior was sleeping with the baby- sitter/girlfriend. My question is, if he saw someone, why didn`t the girlfriend see anyone?
GRACE: Apparently, the girlfriend did not wake up. Is that correct, Ms. Neves?
NEVES: That`s correct.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More developments today in the case of 2-year- old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. The attorney for George and Cindy Anthony is trying to stop the grandparents from having to give sworn depositions this week in the defamation lawsuit filed by Zenaida Gonzalez.
Attorney Brad Conway says the grandparents are fragile emotionally and need time to clear their heads before answering any questions about the tot mom`s case.
CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE ANTHONY`S GRANDMOTHER: Oh, man. Hearing her call out my name and telling me how much she loves me.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE ANTHONY`S GRANDFATHER: To hear her call me Joe-Joe. Sure, I was grandpa, but I was Joe-Joe to her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meanwhile, outrage. Someone was trying to auction off a doll that bears a striking resemblance to tot mom Casey Anthony. The doll which was dressed in an American flag was initially placed on eBay on Sunday but later taken down by the seller.
G. ANTHONY: I miss my daughter Casey. Do not form any judgments because I`ll tell you, you don`t want to be in any of our family`s shoes no matter what it is. Casey deserves prayer. She deserves understanding. She deserves love. She deserves letters. Take the time to write a letter to her.
You could just say hi, Casey, I`m thinking about you today. You can do it for me, I would love it. If you could do it for my son, for Cindy. You can do it for Caylee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, the Anthony family refusing to answer questions under oath set down in just 48 hours.
To Kathi Belich with WFTV, what is their reason for not wanting to answer questions under oath?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: Well, their attorney says that it`s just aimed at annoying, embarrassing them, causing further anguish that they are both emotionally fragile. Their attorney mentioned how everyone knows that George, apparently, tried to kill himself last month and that Cindy is just as emotionally fragile at this point. Both are seeking counseling to get them through this.
He also talks about concerns over whether private information might go public. There is some sort of dispute over whether this proceeding is public. It`s Zenaida Gonzalez`s attorney`s belief that it is a public proceeding and that`s another reason why they`re trying to prevent this at this point.
GRACE: With me, Keith Mitnik, co-counsel for Zenaida Fernandez- Gonzalez, the woman that the tot mom named as the kidnapper of little Caylee. She has been cleared. Mr. Mitnik, what do you make of the Anthonys` claims?
KEITH MITNIK, CO-COUNSEL FOR ZENAIDA FERNANDEZ-GONZALEZ: The claim that she can`t come suddenly to a deposition is very frustrating. We`ve had this case set. This deposition set for over a -- for a month and it was cleared through her lawyers. They said fine, we`ll bring her. You don`t even need to subpoena her.
Now suddenly at the 11th hour, they can`t come. You can`t just stand in the way of the truth. This is a serious matter. It`s not a game that`s played to say I feel like playing today and the next day I don`t.
GRACE: What are the private matters they fear will become public, Mr. Mitnik?
MITNIK: Yes.
GRACE: What are the private matters they fear you will make public, Mr. Mitnik?
MITNIK: I have no interest in making anything public. I have an interest in doing what`s right for my client in these proceedings. I have no clue of what it is they`re so scared of, but I know it`s not my problem nor my client`s problem.
GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, any idea which way the judge is leaning right now? Is he going to make these depositions go forward?
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, we could have an emergency meeting tomorrow where the judge would have to decide on that. As to what the judge will think, you know, it`s hard to say in this case. Before, he`s delayed hearings like this when they involved Casey Anthony. Whether he would be willing to delay them when they involved her parents, we might have to wait until tomorrow to see that.
GRACE: To Kathi Belich. Kathi, what about brother, Lee? Is he agreeing to go forward with the questioning under oath?
BELICH: As far as we know, he does not plan to fight the depositions. He`s scheduled for Friday morning at 9:00.
GRACE: To the lawyers, Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta, Alex Sanchez out of New York.
Ray Giudice, do they have a leg to stand on fighting the depositions?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I thought their answer for protective motion was very weak. It attached no medical evidence indicating that Cindy and George were not medically competent to testify.
I do think that there might be some restrictions on the deposition and that the deposition may be private, not allowing the public and the media and sealed until used by court.
GRACE: And Alex Sanchez, there are rules that apply to depositions. You can argue against a question if it`s beyond the scope.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. All of these matters do have certain rules and regulations and if there`s some question that is improper and it`s placed to the parties, the person can object, and they can actually get a judge to intervene at that point to make a ruling whether or not the questioning should go on.
GRACE: So the Anthonys` arguments about not testifying under oath are getting weaker and weaker under the law.
Joining me right now, Andy Kahn, director of the Houston Mayor`s Crime Victim`s Office. He monitors murderabilia sites all across the world.
Andy, what do you make of this nutjob that is still selling Caylee Sunshine dolls, still trying to make money off Caylee bracelets, t-shirts and now we hear that there is a doll like tot mom draped in the flag for sale.
When will it end, Andy?
ANDY KAHN, DIR. OF HOUSTON MAYOR`S VICTIM`S CRIME OFFICE, MONITORS MURDERABILIA SALES: It`s not going to end. This is just the beginning of the merchandising and marketing of both Caylee Anthony and Casey Anthony.
And you remember the nutjob that was on your show and the day after, they -- all of a sudden they said we`re no longer going to be selling the Caylee doll. Well, guess what? On February 28th orders will be shipped so that was a bold-faced lie, and as far as the other sellers of the voodoo dolls, this doll that was draped in the flag of the United States of America, from my perspective, they`re nothing but a bunch of parasitic vermin, and they`re turning murderers into godlike immortal figures simply to make a buck off of.
GRACE: You know, Andy, people ask me all the time how can it be stopped? We did have the Son of Sam laws until the U.S. Supreme Court in its wisdom reversed them. What about in Florida? But really, this cross estate boundaries. This isn`t just Florida. This is on the Internet.
KAHN: It`s on the Internet and the only way to do it is through public outrage. Unfortunately, you cannot legislate manufactured items or bad taste and until she`s convicted, the bottom line is, quite frankly, she can do whatever she wants and people can make money off of her.
It`s just insidious and despicable that a tragic death of a 2-year-old girl is going to bring out some of the worst entrepreneurialship in American history.
GRACE: Joining me right now Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California.
Leonard, brother Lee Anthony is not refusing to testify under oath. Why is he going forward while the parents are saying they can`t do a depo?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED LOOK FOR CAYLEE & SPENT TIME WITH CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t -- I don`t think Lee ever heard of Zenaida prior to possibly July the 15th or the 16th. He might have heard about Zenaida on July the 3rd, but I don`t think so. I think it was July the 15th or the 13th -- 15th through 16th and I don`t think he`s got any knowledge past that.
GRACE: To Lauren Howard, psychotherapist out of New York. Lauren, it would not have been difficult for the Anthonys to go to a doctor, to explain what they were going through and get a psychological evaluation, psychiatrist, psychologist to state they were in no shape to testify, but they didn`t do that.
Raymond Giudice has pointed that out you`ve got to have a doctor`s note if you`re going to claim some type of an illness.
LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It`s true, but the extent of the illness may be hard to document. I mean, yes, they`re under emotional distress. Yes, this whole thing is upsetting but that doesn`t mean that they can`t be part of the solution and seeing justice through.
I`m not sure what kind of doctor would excuse them from being able to show up at a deposition. If anything, they should be happy to show up for a deposition to get this thing going down the right path of seeking justice and the right answer.
GRACE: What do you make of it, Marc Klaas?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Oh, I completely agree. I think the Anthonys have to -- have to start moving forward on this thing. Poor Zenaida is just another one of Casey`s victims just like everybody else that is involved in this case and the quicker they can adjudicate her situation and get her out of the picture, the quicker they can move forward and everybody can finally seek final justice in this case.
GRACE: And Ray and Alex -- first to you, Ray, don`t they see how devastating this will be to the tot mom`s case when they all three say we never heard of Zenaida Gonzalez? She never came to the house to pick up the baby.
GIUDICE: Right, it may go to bolster the plaintiff`s claim that this was an intentional act by Casey Anthony to select Miss Gonzalez as the quote, unquote, "kidnapper" if they`ve never heard of her before.
GRACE: Alex?
SANCHEZ: You know, I`m just wondering, what is the urgency to go forward with these hearings tomorrow or later on this week? I think the judge should grant them -- in this had case.
GRACE: It`s been seven or eight months now.
SANCHEZ: I know, but this -- it`s absolutely indisputable that this family has gone through absolute hell. They should adjourn it.
GRACE: OK, so -- you know what?
SANCHEZ: Give the family time to recover. There`s no emergency here.
GRACE: On that I agree with you. They have been through hell.
Quick break. We are taking your calls. I want to remind you about the Joan Gaeta Lung Cancer Foundation, fighting lung cancer. Lung cancer claiming more lives than breast, colon, prostate, melanoma and kidney combined.
Miss Gaeta, beloved wife, mom of five, a teacher lost her battle and her family is fighting back. For info or to donate go to ForJoan.org.
And tonight, a special happy birthday to a Georgia friend of the show, Mike Lynch, the pastor to over 2,000 at North Star Church.
Happy birthday, Mike.
And tonight, please continue to pray for veteran New York defense attorney Richard Herman in the fight of a lifetime battling leukemia.
Richard, please stay strong. We are thinking of you now.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A private investigator working on the case of missing teenager Amber Dubois says another woman was attacked that same day near Amber`s school. Private investigator Bill Garcia says the woman looks a lot like Amber and told him that a group of men got out of the van and tried to force her inside the vehicle.
She told Garcia she was able to get away from the men who tried to take her near the Escondido High School where Amber is a student. Authorities say Amber`s cell phone was turned on briefly the day after she disappeared, but hasn`t been turned on since.
Police are not ruling anything out as Amber`s family waits and hopes saying their child would never try to leave on her own.
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GRACE: This is a 14-year-old little girl. She`s a model student, loved to read, not all into Facebook and MySpace and that whole thing. In fact, she was thrilled to be going to school and swapped Valentine`s and was very involved in FFA, Future Farmers of America.
In fact, she wrote a big long letter to her mother why she should get to buy a lamb, a little lamb, as part of a FFA project, a lamb she planned to name Nannette. This is a sweet, precious girl who has never run away.
To Phil Farrar, news anchor and reporter with KOGO, what can you tell me, Phil?
PHIL FARRAR, NEWS ANCHOR/REPORTER, KOGO RADIO: Well, Nancy, she was last seen on Friday the 13th and she was on her way to school and her mother said she was looking forward to that day, as you said. That was the day before Valentine`s Day, but it was also Friday the 13th and she was supposed to exchange these cards and gifts and this, we believe, was shortly after 7:00 in the morning.
GRACE: To Bill Garcia, a California licensed private investigator, he is helping the family in their search. Bill, what can you tell me about an attempted kidnap of a similar-looking person in the same area?
BILL GARCIA, CALIFORNIA LICENSES P.I., HELPING FAMILY IN SEARCH FOR MISSING TEEN, AMBER DUBOIS: I`ll have to make a slight correction. It actually occurred on February 2nd, and it was about 3:30 in the afternoon. This woman so much looks so similar to Amber that I asked if I could take photos of her, and she does. She looks like a high school girl of similar height and build.
GRACE: Now are you telling me the similar transaction occurred on February 2nd?
GARCIA: The similar abduction occurred on February 2nd, yes, at about 3:30 in the afternoon.
GRACE: Correct, I was.
GARCIA: Which was right about the end of school.
GRACE: Yes, I wasn`t sure what you thought you were clearing up, but in any event, what have you learned about the disappearance of little Amber?
GARCIA: Well, we`ve learned that she`s not a runaway. Her family does not believe she`s a runaway. When we got involved in this case we did not feel she was a runaway. Correction, the Escondido police have stopped physical searches. You can`t do that. You have to keep searching for these children until they`re found and that`s -- that is the point that we got involved was Friday morning.
GRACE: Has the family been polygraphed?
GARCIA: The family came forward immediately and volunteered to be polygraphed. The entire family has been cleared of anything with these polygraphs.
GRACE: Now she had a debit card. Has that been used?
GARCIA: It has not. There`s been no activity on that nor has the check that she was given by family for the lamb been cashed.
GRACE: And where are police? Where have they been searching?
GARCIA: Well, police have been conducting investigative situations. They stopped their physical search by utilizing their people and San Diego County sheriff.
GRACE: Why?
GARCIA: . search and rescue people on Thursday. So there has been no.
GRACE: Why? Why did they quit?
GARCIA: No new evidence. There was nothing to substantiate where she might be so they stopped on Thursday evening.
GRACE: Did little Amber have a cell phone? Has it been used?
GARCIA: Amber did have a cell phone. She apparently had taken it with her and it was not found at home. Apparently the next day, there was a -- about a 30-second blast on it where they -- police were able to get one ping from one tower, but the location outside of Escondido has not been divulged.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Sharon in Virginia, hi, Sharon.
SHARON, FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?
SHARON: I was wondering if there was any way that you could talk to this one girl who said that she -- someone tried to kidnap her and tried to think if it`s the same guy that got Amber.
GRACE: Well what do we think about that, Bill Garcia?
GARCIA: Well, there have been a series of attempted abductions of teenage girls in the north San Diego County area and in most instances the description is an older model white utility van. No further description other than there has been reported to be at least one to three Hispanic men.
In one situation within the last month a teenage girl was abducted. She was held for approximately 20 minutes before being released and this was reported by San Diego County Sheriff.
GRACE: To Dr. David Posey, medical examiner joining us out of L.A. Dr. Posey, thank you for being with us. Doctor, if she were forced into a van on her way to school which is extremely rare, 7:00 a.m. in the morning. It is very disturbing. What forensic evidence, if any, would you expect to find in that van?
DR. DAVID M. POSEY, MEDICAL EXAMINER, GLEN OAKS PATHOLOGY MEDICAL GROUP: Well, I think trace evidence would be one thing we`d be looking for. Obviously, she may leave particles of clothing, there may be DNA from little flecks of skin coming off. If she accidentally cut herself, there could be some blood there, so there`s all kinds of evidence if a van could be found to tie her to the van.
So those would be the things as an investigator I`d be looking for.
GRACE: To the lawyers, Ray Giudice, Alex Sanchez, a reward is up, Alex, by the family. Do you believe rewards have helped? Have they helped in cases you have handled?
SANCHEZ: I think it will help. Because one thing about teenagers, they don`t keep secrets very well and they love money. And if there`s a kid out there who has any information, please go to police. If this young is watching the show right now, call the show and we`ll put you in contact with your mother.
GRACE: Ray Giudice, rewards help?
GIUDICE: They always do. Because every time the reward goes up, it goes on the media, it raises attention to the case.
GRACE: And to Lauren Howard, this does not sound like the kind of girl who would put her parents through this kind of pain.
HOWARD: No, it doesn`t but it also doesn`t sound like the kind of girl who would just go -- just go off with a stranger. So it begs the question, did she know this person? It`s a tough one, Nancy. This is a tough one.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not. I don`t think she`s a runaway. She had too many things planned. There was nothing taken from the home. Usually in a runaway situation, I mean, they at least take a change of clothes. That`s not the case here. The little cash that she had was not taken.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I went bed at night and just wake up and hope she`s going to be here. I`m trying to keep things positive. It`s really hard.
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GRACE: There is nothing to suggest this little girl ran away. No clothes were taken. The money, the cash in her room that she had saved up was not taken. Her debit card or cell phone not used.
Out to the lines, Deb in Illinois, hi, Deb. Deb, are you with me?
DEB, FROM ILLINOIS: Yes.
GRACE: Hi, what`s your question, dear?
DEB: Are you sure that maybe she didn`t run away, by any chance?
GRACE: Marc Klaas, you have studied these cases so -- for so long, what do you think?
KLAAS: Well, given the history of the little girl and everything that everybody says about her, I think the chances of her having run away are very, very remote. I think the only indication that that might be a possibility is the fact that some of her friends claim they have seen her, but again, that could always be something else as well.
GRACE: John Lucich, what do you make of it?
JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": No way. Absolutely not. There`s so much evidence that says that this girl was taken. She was on her way to school, end of story.
GRACE: 7:00 in the morning with the check in her pocket.
To Deborah in Florida. Hi, Deb, what`s your question?
DEBORAH, FROM FLORIDA: Oh, hello. Would the police let us know if there were cameras? There must be have been cameras on some buildings or businesses in the area?
GRACE: Good question. Bill Garcia, have they checked into the camera, surveillance video?
GARCIA: Actually, there was cameras at the school, at the high school. There was also intersection cameras. We.
GRACE: Did they get anything?
GARCIA: They did not. They were too grainy and it was a drab day so there wasn`t anything useful.
GRACE: Everyone, take a look at this little girl. 1-888-55-AMBER. Or www.bringamberhome.com.
Let`s stop and remember Army Captain Robert Vallejo II, 28, Richland Hills, Texas, killed Iraq. A Texas University grad. Loved military science, jogging every morning at 5:00 a.m. Lost his life one day before his wife found out she`s having a baby boy. Leaves behind parents Robert and Juanita, three sisters, widow Hillary Ann and a baby son he will never meet, Robert.
Robert Vallejo, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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