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Nancy Grace
Lee Anthony`s Deposition
Aired February 27, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MIKE BROOKS, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight in the disappearance and murder of a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee Anthony. While grandparents George and Cindy Anthony convince a judge they`re too emotional to testify, brother Lee Anthony faces tough questions under oath today and he reveals some major bombshells. The whole thing is caught on video, and tonight, we have the tape.
We learn Casey Anthony says she was forced by the so-called nanny to lie to police about Caylee`s kidnapping. Tot mom says her little girl was not taken from Sawgrass Apartments after all. In fact, she says the kidnapping happened at nearby Blanchard Park. Tot mom also claims Zenaida Gonzalez was contacting her via MySpace and was sending her text messages directing her to different locations in the area, but there`s no evidence of any such messages on the Anthonys` computer.
And tonight, it appears Lee and Casey Anthony are sticking to their story that a different Zenaida Gonzalez kidnapped Caylee. Lee Anthony says, to this day, he still believes everything his sister tells him. Come on! Give me a break!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You spoke to Casey that night.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did you say to her that night?
LEE ANTHONY: Where are you? Mom says that you and Caylee haven`t been home. You know, Mom wants you and Caylee to come home, at a minimum, Caylee to come home. You know, Where are you? We need to meet up. You know, We need to make this happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did she say?
LEE ANTHONY: I`m in Jacksonville (INAUDIBLE)
(LAUGHTER)
LEE ANTHONY: You know, you`re in Orlando.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That night, when you were talking to her from the Dragon (ph) Room, did you ask her, Where`s Caylee?
LEE ANTHONY: Yes. I did do that. She`s, like, Oh, well, you know, someone`s watching her up here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you surprised when you heard her say that she`s with this person, Zenaida Gonzalez? Did that come as a surprise to you?
LEE ANTHONY: I would hope that she would have her with somebody
(LAUGHTER)
LEE ANTHONY: I would have thought she had her with somebody. So no, I would not be surprised if she told me -- she could have told me that she was with anybody, you know, at that point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it your impression that night that she was making it up, or did you believe that to be true?
LEE ANTHONY: To this day, I believe everything that my sister tells me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: Good evening. I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Moments ago, bombshell testimony by tot mom`s brother, Lee Anthony, still drinking the Casey Kool-Aid. Tonight, we have the videotape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you first hear the name Zenaida Gonzalez and that this was the nanny who had been taking care of Casey? (SIC)
LEE ANTHONY: After my mom got off the phone, she, you know, just told me what -- you know, what Casey said.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did she tell you?
LEE ANTHONY: Who has Caylee, who took Caylee, and she said Zanny, or, you know, Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez.
It was, like, Zenaida and Casey were kind of in a conversation at one point. And she remembers Zenaida grabbing Casey`s arm, like, forcefully almost to kind of -- like, kind of hold her down in a way. And that`s when she told her, I`m going to take Caylee from you. I will give her back to you, but you need to follow my instructions. And that`s where she made her -- you know, her threat, you know, If you go to the police, I will -- you know, I will hurt, you know, your parents. I`ll hurt your brother. I`ll hurt, you know, Caylee. I`ll -- you know, I`ll do whatever. Don`t -- you know, don`t do that.
If somebody has your child and somebody is telling you to do something (DELETED), you know what I mean?
(LAUGHTER)
LEE ANTHONY: It`s pretty -- it`s pretty -- it`s pretty easy!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Well, after all the lies we`ve been hearing from Casey Anthony over the last number of months, we hear from Lee today, and he still believes everything his sister has to say.
I want to go straight out to Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer. She`s outside the jail there in Orlando. Natisha, what was the latest today?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the latest, Mike, just as you said. Lee Anthony said that to this day, he still believes everything that his sister tells him. Now, he was deposed today in the defamation lawsuit that has been brought against his sister, Casey Anthony, by Zenaida Gonzalez. And one of the things that Lee Anthony pointed out today also is that the Zenaida Gonzalez who is bringing this suit, it`s not the Zenaida Gonzalez that Casey Anthony says was the caretaker for her daughter, Caylee.
BROOKS: Whoa, whoa, whoa!
LANCE: Now, another thing...
BROOKS: Wait a minute! This is -- oh, so it`s back to the -- somebody -- the other Zanny did it! Go ahead, Natisha.
LANCE: Well, that`s what he`s saying. He`s saying that -- he`s saying this is not the Zenaida Gonzalez that his sister was pointing out as the caretaker for her daughter, Caylee. Now, he also pointed out that there was a story change. Now, we have been aware that the story that Casey Anthony gave to investigators when she was interviewed is that Caylee was brought to Sawgrass Apartments. She was dropped off with Zenaida Gonzalez. But Lee Anthony says that when he was with Casey Anthony, she told him that she had lied to investigators, that the story was actually that the last time she saw Caylee was at Jay Blanchard Park and that Zenaida Gonzalez took Caylee from her. She said that she would return her (INAUDIBLE) period of time.
Now, he also said that Casey Anthony`s the type of person who would probably fight back (INAUDIBLE) he said that she described it as being surreal (ph). She did not fight back. She said that she was -- had -- was fearful for her family, that they had threatened her, said that they would possibly do harm to Caylee, as well as to her family. And we hear this very different story.
Now, we`ve heard this story from Leonard Padilla, but we have not heard the story from the family before.
BROOKS: Well, it sounds like it`s very windy down there, too. But I -- you know, I want to hear exactly. Let`s go -- I want to go right not to the man who was actually there deposing Lee Anthony, sat in front of him all day. I want to go out to John Morgan. He`s the attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez and actually was the one sitting across the table. We hear asking him questions all day today. Mr. Morgan, thank you for being with us.
JOHN MORGAN, ATTORNEY FOR ZENAIDA GONZALEZ: You`re very welcome.
BROOKS: So you were there for what, almost three hours?
MORGAN: Right.
BROOKS: What was the biggest bombshell that you heard today coming out of Lee Anthony`s mouth?
MORGAN: There were quite a few. But I would say the one that was the devastating blow, if I was a -- if I was a defense lawyer. The devastating blow was that when Casey was questioned by the police, she said that she went, dropped off her child at Sawgrass Apartments, where Zenaida Gonzalez lived. When Casey came home from jail, she sat down and privately told Lee, I lied to the police. It really didn`t happen at Sawgrass. It happened at a place called Blanchard Park, where she grabbed my arm, threatened me, and said she was taking Casey -- or taking Caylee, to teach me a lesson, and that she just watched her child walk away.
There was no gun, no knife, no nothing. Watched her child walk away, get in the car and then and said nothing about it. And the most shocking thing, I believe, is -- as I asked Lee Anthony, When she told you that, did you tell your mother? Yes. Did you all rush out, call the police and say, Look, we got to go to Blanchard Park? No.
BROOKS: That`s unbelievable! Because -- yes, because all along, we`ve been hearing, you know, Oh, it was Zenaida. She went back to the Sawgrass Apartments. Nobody was at the apartment. She sat on the steps, tried to figure out what to do.
Here`s what Lee Anthony had to say about the lie about Sawgrass.
MORGAN: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY: She told the police that she gave Caylee to Zenaida at the bottom of the steps of her apartment at the Sawgrass Apartments.
MORGAN: Why do you call it her apartment?
LEE ANTHONY: Zenaida`s apartment.
MORGAN: OK. She told you that Zenaida lived -- that she...
LEE ANTHONY: She told the police. This was the story to the police, which she later said that -- I mean, she`s gone on record saying that, yes, I lied to you about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I want to go back out to John Morgan. John, when you were talking to him about this -- and when it was feeding in, I was watching this. I`m saying to myself, I can`t believe that, you know, he`s saying this. How was his demeanor to you today? You`ve taken a lot of depositions.
MORGAN: I`ve taken a lot of depositions. He was laughing a lot. It was unusual. You`re sitting there, your niece is dead, your sister`s facing a murder charge, and he laughed a lot.
BROOKS: Yes.
MORGAN: And he kept saying, I believe my sister. Yet he said, She lied to the police, she lied to me, she said she was in Jacksonville, but I knew she was in Orlando. He said she had a reputation in high school of being a liar. She stole from the family.
And the real thing -- the real nuance that he said -- I said, do you believe her? He said, I believe my sister. I have to. And I said, Well, you know, Lee, there`s a big difference between have to and do. And he goes, I have to.
BROOKS: Take a listen to this about him believing her and still drinking the Casey Kool-Aid.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you surprised when you heard her say that she`s with this person, Zenaida Gonzalez? Did that come as a surprise to you?
LEE ANTHONY: I would hope that she would have her with somebody.
(LAUGHTER)
LEE ANTHONY: I would have thought she had her with somebody. So no, I would not be surprised if she told me -- she could have told me that she was with anybody, you know, at that point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it your impression that night that she was making it up, or did you believe that to be true?
MORGAN: To this day, I believe everything that my sister tells me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: Everything his sister tells him, he believes.
I want to go out to Lillian Glass joining us here in New York. Dr. Lillian Glass is a psychologist and body language expert and the author of "I Know What You`re Thinking." Now, I tell you what, Lillian, looking at him, it`s really hard to see, OK, what is he thinking? You know, we heard what Mr. Morgan said about, you know, he`s taken a lot of depositions. And he was just laughing. His whole demeanor seemed very, very strange to me. And what do you think about it? Was this just nervous laughter or do you think it was just like, Oh, you know, my -- my niece is missing, my -- you know, my niece was missing, now she`s dead, my sister`s in jail, my father had a nervous breakdown. What is up with this guy?
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: The only thing I can say, Mike, is it was full of deception. There were a lot of cues that I picked up, and it was really amazing -- the head shaking no when he was speaking about things in the affirmative. He smiled when he said, I believe everything my sister says, and then he smirks at the end. That is a sign of deception. The body doesn`t lie. It leaks out information. The voice leaks out information. And you see so much deception in this deposition.
BROOKS: Well, you know, and I also noticed, being a detective and having talked to people and interviewed people a lot -- and people have lied to me, believe it or not -- is his shifting of his eyes.
GLASS: Exactly.
BROOKS: You know, that whole neurolinguistic programming.
GLASS: Well, that`s part of it. He`s looking away. He`s looking up. There are shoulder shrugs. You also see him at times when he`s rubbing his nose, and that`s the autonomic nervous system working overtime.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY: She gave Caylee to Zenaida at the bottom of the steps of her apartment.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Walked her to the stairs. That`s where I`ve dropped her off a bunch of other times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you were speaking to Casey about dropping her off the last time...
LEE ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where did she drop her off?
LEE ANTHONY: She went with Caylee to -- to Jay Blanchard Park. That`s when she told her, you know, I`m going to take Caylee from you.
CASEY ANTHONY: The last person that I saw her with is Zenaida. She`s the last person that I`ve seen my daughter with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she tell you that she tried to stop Zenaida from taking the child?
LEE ANTHONY: Well, that was a question that I asked her. I said that, I would think I would know you and you...
(LAUGHTER)
LEE ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) You know, I would be. Casey said that she was so shocked of what was happening and that she didn`t know how to react and that she thought it just was, like, surreal to her, you know, that that moment was even happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. We`re taking your calls live. Straight out to the lines. Nicki from Washington. Thanks for joining us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Mike. How`re you doing?
BROOKS: Good Nicki. Thank you. You have a question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, you know, the -- you guys are right. He is -- Lee is laughing way too much during this deposition. You know, depositions are very serious things. I have a question. Mr. and Mrs. Anthony -- how long do they have until they`re forced to be in a deposition on behalf of Zenaida Gonzalez?
BROOKS: Straight out to...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know?
BROOKS: Yes. No. That`s a great question. Straight out to the attorneys. Joining us from New York, Sue Moss, family law attorney and child advocate, from San Francisco, Dan Horowitz, a noted defense attorney, and also Carmen St. George, a defense attorney joining us here from New York.
I`ll throw that to you, Dan.
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Mike, you know, this whole deposition procedure is so unusual in the context of a criminal case. It seems like Casey has nobody really representing her in this, so your guest is just taking shots at all of her witnesses. If I was Casey`s attorney, I would close this show down right now, even if it meant losing this lawsuit.
BROOKS: But Dan -- but Dan, you know, I mean, how can they shut it down? I mean, they`re not going to just shut this down because this is not about -- you know, it`s -- this is -- this is clearing Zenaida Gonzalez`s name.
HOROWITZ: No, it`s not. This is about a civil attorney getting publicity and trying to run this family into the ground, and that`s the job of prosecutors. Mike, all that Casey has to do is default, saying, You`re right. I lose. Take all my millions, since she has nothing. This case is over. There`s no money. And she`s safe from anybody attacking her in the civil arena and using it against her in her criminal case.
BROOKS: John Morgan, what`s your reaction to Mr. Horowitz?
MORGAN: Well, Mr. Horowitz, first of all, Cindy and George`s depositions are going to be taken in March. Remember, when we first started this case, when we first filed this lawsuit, Zenaida Gonzalez had lost her job, lost her home. People were threatening her and her children. We`ve come a long way since we filed this lawsuit, and we did it to accomplish that. Today, we kicked the door down, and I think everybody in America now knows that Zenaida Gonzalez had nothing to do with this matter.
BROOKS: But Mr. Morgan, now the Anthonys are coming out and they`re saying, Oh, OK. Well, this is not the real Zenaida Gonzalez. That`s what they were saying.
MORGAN: There is no -- there`s a Zenaida Gonzalez who`s a composite. Our Zenaida Gonzalez is the name that Casey found at Sawgrass Apartments, and we`re going to be able to prove that. We went a long way today toward proving that because Casey had been there, had stayed there, had friends there. We have more pieces to the puzzle to add up later.
But we went today -- she found the name Zenaida Gonzalez and then took that name from Sawgrass and built a composite that was changing from day to day. She had children. She didn`t have children. She was young. She was old. The only constant is our client, Zenaida Gonzalez, went to Sawgrass, filled out forms. Casey found out about it and used that name and turned that woman`s life upside-down.
And I would say to the lawyer up in New York, if somebody accused you -- and you have an unusual name. If somebody accused you of abducting and maybe killing somebody, what you would do, is you -- if you didn`t do it, you`d file a defamation lawsuit. And don`t forget, not only we filed a defamation lawsuit, but Casey has sued our Zenaida Gonzalez -- not a Zenaida Gonzalez, our Zenaida Gonzalez.
BROOKS: How -- you know, what does she -- what does she think she`s going to gain by this, Carmen St. George, by countersuing Zenaida Gonzalez?
CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think she`s proving, Mike, that this has nothing to do with the Zenaida Gonzalez that she`s accusing took her daughter. I mean, I see this whole defamation suit as a real problem for the plaintiff, Mr. Morgan here, because you have to prove a false statement about a plaintiff to a third party that caused injury. Now...
BROOKS: Did you hear...
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: All the statements from Casey to Lee about this woman and saying her message (ph) -- we`re going to talk about that in just a few minutes. This is unbelievable! I mean, she drug this woman`s name, her reputation, drug it through the mud. And now she`s...
ST. GEORGE: Mike...
BROOKS: Now -- wait a minute.
ST. GEORGE: If you...
BROOKS: Wait a minute. Now -- and now she`s trying to get her life back together. You heard what Mr. Morgan said. She had death threats against her, Carmen!
ST. GEORGE: You know what? Let`s take a computer, anybody`s computer, and Google Zenaida Gonzalez. You will come out with over 400 names in Florida. It is not uncommon, as Mr. Morgan wants to say here. Yes, there`s a Zenaida Gonzalez who is his client. But Lee Anthony said that`s not the one.
BROOKS: But Carmen...
(CROSSTALK)
ST. GEORGE: ... very hard defamation case...
BROOKS: But Carmen, police have not spoken to any other Zenaida Gonzalez besides her. And you know, we`re -- and it`s -- there is no Zenaida Gonzalez, period!
ST. GEORGE: You know what, Mike?
BROOKS: Plain and simple! We`ll talk about it a little bit later.
But tonight`s "Case Alert." Cadaver dogs are back searching in the disappearance of 5-year-old Florida girl Haleigh Cummings, a team of K-9s searching near Haleigh`s home after cadaver dogs hit on a dumpster, police combing through piles of trash, but so far, turn up no evidence of the little girl. Haleigh reported missing February 10, snatched from her own bed in the middle of the night. Her home has officially been cleared as a crime scene now. Haleigh is three feet 6all, 39 pounds, with bland hair and brown eyes and a very, very distinctive birthmark on her cheek. If you have any more information on this case, call Crimestoppers at 888-277-TIPS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you go through these possibilities -- and I know -- I hate to ask it, but I have to. Is one of the possibilities that`s gone through your mind is that your sister was the one responsible for the disappearance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to object and certify (ph) that question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you instructing him not to answer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Well, sounds like Lee Anthony, as I said earlier, still drinking that Casey Kool-Aid.
Straight out to Sue Moss joining us here in New York, family law attorney and child advocate. Weigh in, Sue.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Let me get this straight. According to the testimony, if she were to go to the police, then the whole family would be in jeopardy? But if she goes out to an "anything but clothes" party or go to some of those other bars that she was drinking in those 31 days, everything would be just fine? You can`t make this stuff up! If you believe that, I`ve got a cable station I want to sell you.
(LAUGHTER)
BROOKS: But Sue, what do you say about what Dan and Carmen St. George is saying? Oh, you know -- this whole defense of Zanny the nanny, is that out the window now?
MOSS: That defense is going to lead them -- lead her nowhere except to general population of the prison. You know something? She should have defaulted on this civil lawsuit. But she didn`t. She filed a countersuit. And now she`s claiming things that she wants from Zenaida Gonzalez. At the end of the day, this woman, Zenaida Gonzalez, deserves her good name back and half the jailhouse Doritos that Casey is buying.
(LAUGHTER)
BROOKS: And Dan Horowitz, quickly -- we`ve got 20 seconds. Are they locked into this whole Zanny the nanny defense now?
HOROWITZ: I think they can step away from it. As soon as Jose Baez convinces his client to say, I did it and it was an accident or I lost my mind or I`m mentally ill, then we have a different case.
BROOKS: Yes, I`m going to hold my breath and wait for her to tell the truth.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: I want you to focus on what we`re doing here, okay?
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: Uh-huh.
ALLEN: All right? Because want to make sure we get this right. After not seen your daughter, or heard from, or not knowing where your daughter was at for five weeks, she calls you on the phone. You have a conversation with her, where she talks about books and other stuff. And then, you ask her to speak to an adult. And then she hangs up?
JOHN MORGAN, ATTORNEY FOR ZENAIDA GONZALES: She`s saying that Caylee said to her on the phone?
ANTHONY: Something real short like, oh, "Hi, mommy. You know, I miss you," something like that. Casey, you know, interrupted her. You know, as quickly as she could, to say, "Caylee, put an adult on the phone."
MORGAN: Who said that?
ANTHONY: Casey says, "Caylee, put an adult on the phone."
MORGAN: Why would she say an "adult?" Why wouldn`t she say put Zenaida on the phone?
ANTHONY: I don`t know. She used the word adult.
My mother did tell me that Casey and Caylee hadn`t been home. She called me on July 3rd. She called me probably about 8:00 at night. And I totally forgot about that.
MORGAN: And that`s when you decided to go looking for her?
ANTHONY: I started looking online. Figured out she was supposed to be at a party and all that stuff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE BROOKS, HLN HOST: I`m Mike Brooks in for Nancy Grace. That`s Lee Anthony who was being deposed today by attorney for Zenaida Gonzales, John Morgan.
And we heard in there talking about a cell phone conversation, that allegedly, Casey had with her daughter, Caylee, while she was with Zenaida Gonzalez. But we know because of cell records that the call never happened. Never happened, period.
We`re taking your calls, live, straight out to the lines.
Ashley from Canada. Thanks for joining us.
ASHLEY FROM CANADA: Hi.
BROOKS: You have a question?
ASHLEY: Yes. My question is that, the family, the Anthony family couldn`t be so attached to the baby. Why did it take them almost six weeks to contact authorities?
BROOKS: That`s a great question. Straight out to Kathi Belich, reporter for CNN affiliate WFTV -- Kathi.
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV: Could you please repeat that question?
BROOKS: She said if they were so concerned, why did she wait six weeks before contacting police?
BELICH: That`s a question that so many people have asked her. When investigators asked her that question, she said that she was trying to look herself. She never mentioned any threat. She never mentioned that there were any threats against her family at that time, initially. She just said that she was trying to look herself.
And that was sort of stupid. She told that to the 911 operator. She told that to her family.
BROOKS: And, Kathi also, we just heard, right coming back from the break from Lee Anthony, during the deposition today, talking about looking online. He actually found on Facebook, that his sister was going to be at a club in down -- somewhere in Orlando. What can you tell us about that?
BELICH: That`s right. He had heard through Facebook that she was supposed to be at, it`s called the Dragon Room, downtown Orlando, at some point during that month that Caylee was missing. So he actually went downtown looking for her there. He didn`t find her there.
He said he stayed in downtown Orlando until about 3:00 in the morning looking around for her. He believes that possibly one of her friends tipped her off. And so, she took off at that point.
BROOKS: Help mo, ok -- well, she`s on Facebook. She`s not out looking for her daughter, like she says she was. But she`s on Facebook talking about, "Hey, come meet me here at a party."
Take a listen to what Lee Anthony said today about looking for his sister.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: You found out she was going to be at a party. And you went to that party, correct?
ANTHONY: Yes.
MORGAN: And when you went to that party, where was this party?
ANTHONY: The Dragon Room downtown.
MORGAN: Ok. And when you went to the party, did she know you were coming?
ANTHONY: She ended up finding out from a friend of hers, prior to showing. You know, prior to when she would have showed up. She never did.
MORGAN: So, a friend tipped her off that you were on your way to the Dragon Room?
ANTHONY: Or that I was there. Yes.
MORGAN: And when you went there, she wasn`t there?
ANTHONY: No. I did not see her at all.
MORGAN: Did you wait there for her at the Dragon Room?
ANTHONY: I was there in downtown, in the greater downtown area probably until 3:00 in the morning.
MORGAN: And she never showed up?
ANTHONY: I never saw her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: Well, at least Lee Anthony was out there looking for his sister. And because maybe if he found his sister maybe he would have found his niece.
I want to go back out to John Morgan. John, we heard today about text messaging. That Zenaida was allegedly, supposedly, contacting her through Myspace and through text messages. What did he have to say about that?
MORGAN: It was the most bizarre -- this was all new for us. He said that Zenaida came in and also took over her password, controlled her Myspace and Facebook. And then, every day, Zenaida told her to go somewhere. Go to Wal-mart. Go to the Millennium Mall. And that she was directing her around, places to go.
And that she would go there, and the reason she went there, was because if she didn`t, Zenaida would either kill Caylee, Lee, Cindy or George. And it was just -- today -- today, Lee Anthony`s testimony, I believe, has been the most damaging thing to Casey`s case, when you really dissect it and peel the onion back.
BROOKS: You know, you must have almost fallen out of your chair when he started talking about that.
MORGAN: And when he also, when I said, "Lee, have you ever thought about the possibility that Casey is responsible?" And he wouldn`t answer that question. Even though he believes everything his sister is telling him.
BROOKS: Everything she tells him.
Now, I want to go back out to Kathi Belich. Kathi, during the deposition - - as I just said, if I were Mr. Morgan, I would have fallen out of my chair -- when this whole thing of timer 55 comes up. What is timer 55?
BELICH: There`s been a lot of speculation online about that. Today, Lee Anthony said that supposedly Zenaida took over Casey`s password, made it timer 55, and that was to refer to the number of days between the day that she took Caylee, allegedly that Zenaida took Caylee on June 16th, until Caylee`s third birthday, on August 9th. That was supposed to be the number of days because supposedly, Zenaida took the child temporarily just to teach Casey a lesson, that she was going to give her back.
And that could be what could be behind the Anthonys mentioning to Casey during a jail visit she`s going to be back by her birthday, right? They were sort of referring to I guess the story that she had given them about that.
BROOKS: Very interesting.
And I also wonder, was Zenaida Gonzalez directing her through Myspace and text messages? Go cash bad checks. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY: Casey said that timer 55 was the amount of time that this person was going to have Caylee, before she returned her. This is creepy. It gave me chills the first time. If you count 55 days from July 15th, you get August 9th. And that`s -- excuse me -- from June 15th, you get august 9th. And that`s Caylee`s birthday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: Timer 55. Hmm. Okay. Maybe there was a chip planted in her head at Blanchard Park also. It`s amazing. It`s amazing to me, the stories that Casey Anthony can come up with.
Joining us right now outside the jail in Orange County, is Steve Helling, staff writer for "People" magazine. And Steve actually does have an article coming out in this weeks magazine, an update on the Caylee Anthony case.
Steve, what happened when the media showed up today at the attorney`s office? Were they immediately turned away?
STEVE HELLING, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Well, what happened was, we were told that they would prefer us not to sit in on the deposition. And the reason why was that Lee Anthony and his attorney said that if the media was there, they were going to just get up and walk out.
So, we all kind of stayed back and let the deposition go on, knowing that we would get copies of the deposition and the video of the deposition after the fact.
BROOKS: Now, back out to John Morgan. John? Mr. Morgan, did he say, when you were miking (ph) him up like hey, what`s going on here? Is this going to be on the media? Did he ask any questions like that at all?
MORGAN: They didn`t expect to be there. They weren`t ready for this. And we planned it that way because midway through the deposition, Lee Anthony`s lawyers said, how much longer are you going to be? I said, listen, I just got going. He said, well, I have a hearing at court at 10:30. So, I said, well, it`s 9:30 now. We just started.
So, we know that they expected the media to be there. And they were just going to walk away. And we didn`t.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY: CMA -- CMA, each day, you continue to teach me about life. About the way it should be lived. Each day, you give me the ability to be strong, or to be weak. It`s been so long since I`ve been able to see you to hug you or to tell you how much you mean to me. CMA, I miss you. I love you.
MORGAN: CMA. What was that? Why do you say this is to CMA? Who were you talking to?
ANTHONY: There are few women in my life, with the initials CMA; my mother, my sister, and Caylee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks in for Nancy Grace. We heard Lee Anthony at the memorial service talking about CMA. And he said it represented Casey, Caylee, and his mother, Cindy. But I find it very odd, none of the family members have yet to go to visit Casey since the memorial service on February 10th.
We`re taking your calls live. Sherri from Canada, thanks for hanging in with us.
SHERRY FROM CANADA: Hey, mike. Thanks for taking my call.
BROOKS: Sure.
SHERRY: I`m a grandmother with grandkids Caylee`s age. I find this appalling. Lee as an uncle, as a man in general, should be ashamed of himself, for sobbing at the memorial and for being cavalier and laughing through this deposition. He might as well have been in a sports bar talking about last night`s game. I think that`s appalling.
And I would also like to know whether the investigators have tracked his cell records and watched him like a hawk because I think the reason he`s supporting Casey so much is that he`s probably guilty as sin.
BROOKS: Natisha Lance, have we heard -- I`m sure investigators have -- but have you heard anything firmly whether or not they were looking into his also?
NATISHA LANCE, PRODUCER, NANCY GRACE: I haven`t heard anything firmly that they were looking into him also but they did do interviews with all of the family.
And I don`t know that Lee Anthony is so much being cavalier because if you recall, when he did those interviews with investigators too way back when the car was taken from the home, he was laughing during that point, too. It might just be a nervous energy that Lee Anthony has.
BROOKS: It could be. We heard what Dr. Glass said. But then again, it could be just to give him the benefit of the doubt.
At least Lee Anthony was out there looking for his sister in hopes of finding his niece.
I want to go back out to attorneys Sue Maas, Dan Horowitz, Carmen St. George. There were a lot of questions that he didn`t answer today. And do you think that he will be made to answer them in front of a judge? Carmen?
CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Mike, that`s a very interesting question because when you instruct the witness not to answer a question at a deposition, it`s pretty serious especially in our state and our surrounding states, you have to have a compelling reason and be able to justify that.
The attorney, in this case, stopped him from answering questions regarding his knowledge as to whether or not he knows who the father is and others. So, it`s going to be very interesting to see what the judge does.
BROOKS: Dan, what do you think?
DAN HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think he`s going to have to give up that information. This deposition went so far and wide with no objections. There seems to be no limits on what this prosecuting plaintiff`s lawyer can do. And I think at this point, the gate`s open, the horses are out, and you can`t put them back in.
BROOKS: Sue, quickly, do you think that Lee Anthony`s credibility is totally shot by saying I believe everything my sister has been telling me?
SUE MAAS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If he believes everything his sister is telling him, he`s either stupid or very stupid.
BROOKS: John Morgan, are you going to take these questions? First of all, the questions he refused to ask, talk about that.
MORGAN: Well, here`s a big one. Who is the father?
BROOKS: Yes.
MORGAN: You know, because, listen, in a murder case, the first people they look at is the parents and siblings. And so, he said I won`t answer that.
Next question, is there a possibility that Casey could be responsible for the death of Caylee? Won`t answer. And so, you know, we`re going to go -- I`m convinced the judge -- our state, like the lady`s state up north, is the same way. You don`t just get to say don`t answer, don`t answer. It`s very strict.
Also, by the way, we`ve just suspended our deposition. We didn`t end it. We`re still going to come back. And also another interesting thing that came out today is that we`re going to subpoena on Monday is that both Cindy and Lee have kept notes throughout this whole ordeal, that we found out today. And so, when he said he`s going to keep them. And he has a copy. He`s given some to law enforcement. But he`s going to give us a copy of all the notes that he has made. And he says his mother`s made the same notes.
BROOKS: Where are these notes, John?
MORGAN: The notes are with law enforcement. But Lee told us today, under oath, that he has kept a copy. And that he can make them available to us.
BROOKS: Are you going to be able to prove that this, in fact, is the one and only Zenaida Gonzalez involved in this case?
MORGAN: Yes.
BROOKS: When do you think you`ll be able to go ahead and wrap it up and prove it?
MORGAN: Well, first of all, the first person -- the big question is, we`re going to ask Casey Anthony questions. She`s going to take the Fifth Amendment, or so she has already done. We`re going to have to build it up around the people at Sawgrass.
But remember this, somebody said that there`s a million Zenaida Gonzalezes. Google Zenaida Gonzalez, there`s only been one Zenaida Gonzalez, pulled out of her home by police. There`s only one Zenaida Gonzalez that had any contact with Sawgrass, filled out her information. There`s only been one Zenaida Gonzalez that has anything to do with this case. It`s our Zenaida Gonzalez.
And we`re going to be able to prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt, even though that`s not our standard.
BROOKS: And also, keep in mind, if I`m not mistaking, there is a hearing on Monday, where Casey Anthony is supposed to come in, because they don`t want anymore of the pictures of her from the photo bucket getting out.
More later, but now, tonight`s CNN Heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have an explosion.
There`s smoke all over the place.
CAROLYN MANNING, "WELCOME TO AMERICA PROJECT": My brother-in-law was killed in tower one on September 11th. After September 11th, I saw a picture of an Afghan family who had also lost a family member because of the Taliban and they had to flee their country.
Our family has five kids. We lost a family member too. We just naturally went from that to let`s show the refugees that we welcome them.
My name is Carolyn Manning. And I started the "Welcome to America Project" to help refugees in Phoenix, Arizona.
How are you, are you doing well.
The families that we help come from places where there has been war and genocide. And some refugees have never lived with indoor plumbing and they`ve never flushed a toilet.
All right, let`s go.
The "Welcome to America Project" is the community. And it operates by community volunteers. My husband and I many a time have been out here pulling furniture in. And before work, and after work, this is our life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much for all your help.
MANNING: All right, let`s go into that family.
When they step foot in the United States, they`ve been invited here. I want the refugees to know that this is their home.
Welcome to America.
And that`s what American has been built on. It`s our history, it` who we are. And they`re part of it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us about your heroes at CNN.com/heroes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROOKS: And now a look back at the stories making the rest of the headlines this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haleigh`s 4-year-old brother identified the man he saw who took Haleigh who came into the home that night. He told his step- grandmother Connie Sheffield that a man dress in black took his sister Haleigh the night she went missing.
NANCY GRACE, ANCHOR, NANCY GRACE SHOW: Did he describe in any way what happened? Did he open the door and came in? Or the little boy woke up and saw him there? Did he describe anything at all about what the man actually did?
CONNIE SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH CUMMINGS` STEP-GRANDMOTHER: No, he just said a man dressed in black come in and took his sissy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After the trail seemed to have gone cold, a potential break in the case. A source close to the investigation confirms that the suspect in the Chandra Levy case is Ingmar Guandique.
GRACE: Finally, a break in the case. An arrest is imminent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got of the bed at night and just wake up and hope she`s going to be here. And she`s not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missing teenager Amber Dubois has not been seen since the day before Valentine`s Day. And her family says, she would never leave on her own.
GRACE: Our thoughts and our prayer are with you and your family. Amber had never run away from home before, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not.
GRACE: Sworn testimony by grandparents George and Cindy Anthony set to go down in hours until today. A judge puts the brakes on the whole thing. The Anthonys claiming they are too emotionally fragile to answer truthful questions under oath.
KEITH MITNIK, CO-COUNSEL FOR ZENAIDA FERNANDEZ GONZALEZ: She said, that she told the police that she dropped her child off at Sawgrass Apartments with Zenaida Gonzalez. There is not another Zenaida Gonzalez on the planet ever had anything to do with Sawgrass.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: Tonight, let stop to remember army sergeant Major Julio Ordonez, 54, San Antonio, Texas, killed in Iraq. Studied at St. Phillips College at Hallmark Institute, he was awarded the Army Achievement Medal and National Defense Service Medal.
Fellow soldiers remembered him as a big brother always ready to give advice. He leaves behind grieving widow, Leticia, two sons and two daughters. Julio Ordonez, American hero.
Thank you to all our guests and you at home for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. sharp Eastern.
Until then, stay safe.
END
