Return to Transcripts main page

Nancy Grace

Existence of Casey Anthony Plea Deal Disputed

Aired March 10, 2009 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthonys` home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct tapping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.

Bombshell: Is a plea deal on the table? Repeat, a plea deal, a deal for a lighter sentence for tot mom? And breaking her silence, tot mom Casey Anthony lashes out in a sworn affidavit, just released as we go to air, accusing prosecutors of being, quote, "angry" she won`t take a deal. Tot mom`s accusations hit while lawyers claim cops secretly recorded them meeting with tot mom in jail.

And tonight, that gravy train just keeps on rolling, tot mom apparently making a quick buck off Caylee`s murder, reportedly raking in a quarter million dollars off photos and personal home videos of Caylee, and that doesn`t even include book and movie deals. But tonight, even more leeches, Web sites popping up hawking T-shirts, magnets, bumper stickers, keychains, stuffed animal animals, and of course, the Caylee doll is back for sale. The clock ticking on tot mom`s next court appearance in less than 48 hours.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could you try to get rich off of a murdered (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re nothing but a bunch of crazed vultures!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not trying to get rich.

CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Do you understand how I feel?

GRACE: Were your clients paid for footage, photos or interviews?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not.

CASEY ANTHONY: Do you really understand how I feel in this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony`s lead attorney is heading back to court.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have nothing to hide.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors requested that special hearing because they want to know how the murder defendant is paying for her defense team.

GRACE: How is she bankrolling nearly a dozen private lawyers?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want to make sure that Casey Anthony is getting the right and proper defense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have absolutely no book deals or no entertainment deals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This coming Thursday, the (INAUDIBLE) bench (ph) notes (ph) are taking place.

GRACE: I guess he can`t just ask his client who`s the baby`s daddy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know who the father of Caylee...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not know.

(CROSSTALK)

CASEY ANTHONY: If they have nothing positive to say, they need to shut up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight: Music superstar Rihanna brutally attacked just before she takes the stage at the Grammys. Stunning photos of a bloodied and beaten Rihanna go public, her alleged attacker R&B superstar Chris Brown. But is a sweetheart plea deal in the works? Brown demanding star treatment in court. But hold on. Not so fast, Brown. It ain`t over yet. Tonight, a secret text message emerges. Does it amount to a confession?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking developments in the savage beating of 19- year-old music superstar Rihanna. Is Chris Brown going to claim self- defense? TMZ.com reports that sources say Rihanna threw the first punch, and as a result, experts have told Brown that any plea deal he gets shouldn`t include jail time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oprah Winfrey has a warning for Rihanna: If he hits you once, he will hit you again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t know that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rihanna, are you listening? Oprah is talking to you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In other developments, TMZ is reporting that the woman who sent Chris Brown a three-page text message the night he allegedly attacked Rihanna is none other than Brown`s manager, Tina Davis (ph). Both Brown and his manager have denied any prior sexual relationship.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brown is charged with two felonies for assault and criminal threats.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boyfriend Chris Brown is accused of punching her, biting her, biting her ear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He shoved her head against the passenger window and continued to punch her in the face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... threatening to kill her, even choking her until she nearly passed out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is deadly conduct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rihanna, are you listening?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not a light bruising and assault.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris Brown wants a misdemeanor with no jail time. People in hell want a little sip of ice water, too.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every 15 seconds, a woman in the U.S. is physically assaulted by her boyfriend or husband.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he hits you once, he will hit you again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unless he`s brought to understand it, she`s really not safe with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And to Satsuma, Florida, a 5-year-old little girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone, vanished into thin air, the door propped open. The father comes home from the night shift to find not a single trace of little Haleigh.

Bombshell. Haleigh`s father announces he plans to marry the girlfriend/baby-sitter Misty Croslin, the last person to see Haleigh alive. Will that trigger the husband/wife privilege, stopping one from testifying against the other at a potential trial?

And tonight, for the first time since her little girl vanishes, Haleigh`s bio mom goes inside the bedroom where the little girl is snatched. With the reward mounting, where is 5-year-old Haleigh?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you`re out there, mommy loves you and your daddy loves you and we miss you, and we`ll be right here when you come home!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From the back door area, you can see that you have to walk up a ramp in order to get into the house. Now, what we do know is that Haleigh was afraid of the dark, and on both sides of the house, there is densely wooded area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She (INAUDIBLE) little girl. And she`s (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s been a month now since 5-year-old Haleigh Cummings disappeared, and her dad has just gotten engaged. Twenty-five- year-old Ronald Cummings proposed to his 17-year-old girlfriend Sunday at a Chili`s restaurant in Florida. Misty Croslin said the focus is still on Haleigh`s disappearance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is what Haleigh wanted. She`s always talked about it. And even if she`s not with us, she`s still here with us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Misty Croslin said that she realized that Haleigh was missing in the middle of the night when she woke up to use the bathroom. Now, there`s two bathrooms in the mobile home, one that is directly in the master bedroom and another one that is all the way across the living room.

RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER: Please, if you have my daughter, bring her home. Please. All I want is Haleigh. That`s all I want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Is there a plea on the table, a plea deal for a lighter sentence for tot mom?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors want to know how Casey Anthony is paying for her defense team. They say it includes eight attorneys and a number of high-profile defense experts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony`s attorney, Jose Baez, has repeatedly avoided all questions about who is paying for her services.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have this young lady`s life in my hands, and I have to adequately prepare for trial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors reportedly want to make sure case decisions are not based on future book or movie deals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have absolutely no book deals or no entertainment deals or any contingency fees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sale of Caylee Anthony home videos earned nearly $200,000 last summer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have nothing to hide. Absolutely nothing. I have conducted myself in the most professional manner that I possibly can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s concern Casey Anthony`s lead attorney may be managing her only assets for the wrong reasons, and prosecutors are reportedly worried...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Their concern is that Casey might try to argue after her first long, expensive trial that she should get another one because Baez steered the case in a direction that was most financially lucrative for him, not in the best one for her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Kathi Belich with WFTV, joining us from Orlando, Florida. Kathi, her exact words are, and I am quoting the tot mom, "The state is mad because I won`t take a plea deal. They`re angry. " Explain. Is there a deal on the table?

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: That`s what she says. What I am being told is that there has never been any kind of plea offer in this case. The only thing that did happen -- we`ve all reported it -- last year there, was a limited-time offer for limited immunity. If she would tell investigator where is the body was, they wouldn`t use her own words against her. But that was not a guarantee she wouldn`t be prosecuted if they could...

GRACE: Well, hold on...

BELICH: ... independently corroborate...

GRACE: ... just a moment. Kathi Belich joining me there in Orlando. She`s from WFTV, on the story from the very beginning.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. We`re taking your calls live. Susan Moss, child advocate out of New York, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney in Atlanta, Mickey Sherman, renowned trial lawyer, defense attorney out of New York, author of "How Can You Defend Those People?"

Sue Moss, this is signed, is sworn and signed, this document. It had to be filed by her attorney. She can`t get out of jail and go file it in the courthouse herself. So she says in this document, this sworn affidavit, filed by her lawyer, Ashton, the prosecutor is "angry because I refuse to take a plea agreement for a crime I did not commit."

Now, why would the lawyer submit something that is false? Sue?

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: A plea deal, if real, would be a steal. You know something? I agree with you. I don`t know too many lawyers who would submit some sort of perjured statement to a court. But Casey is special. I think she was lying, and that certainly isn`t beneath her.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Carrie in Ohio. Hi, Carrie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering if it`s illegal -- if she has some deal with whoever`s making the dolls, is it illegal for her to profit and make money while she`s in jail? I don`t know how that works.

GRACE: Well, you know what, Carrie? It`s been very confusing. For many years in this country, we had "Son of Sam" laws, named after the "Son of Sam" serial killer. Well, that statute went up to the U.S. Supreme Court in a case versus Simon & Shuster, the publishing house. Long story short, there`s no such federal rule anymore. It`s state by state.

To Andy Kahan, director of the Houston mayor`s crime victims` office. What about these items we`re showing currently on sale, leeches making money off Caylee`s murder, including the tot mom, who`s rounded up around a quarter million dollars?

ANDY KAHAN, DIR. OF HOUSTON MAYOR`S CRIME VICTIMS` OFFICE: Yes, what a bunch of parasitic vermin. I mean, they`re nothing but subhuman degenerates that are capitalizing strictly for capital gain on the cold- blooded, diabolical murder of a 2-year-old girl. I have never seen a victim so exploited. Matter of fact, I`ve never seen a victim exploited for financial gain in all my years in criminal justice.

But the reality is, unless she -- unless Caylee (SIC) Anthony is convicted, right now, there`s really nothing (INAUDIBLE) anything anybody can do to prevent manufactured items from being sold.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: Could someone let me -- come on~!

CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDMOTHER: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down.

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak. You want me to talk, then give me...

CINDY ANTHONY: All right, I`ll listen.

CASEY ANTHONY: ... three seconds to say something!

CINDY ANTHONY: Go, sweetheart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sure she sees herself as a victim, but that`s the same denial she`s been in from the very beginning.

CASEY ANTHONY: I have no one to comfort me but myself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s completely consistent with a sociopathic personality pattern.

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I know what I`m honestly up against. You guys understand what I`m honestly up against. And with keeping me here, you`re not helping me help myself. I`m sorry to say that.

CINDY ANTHONY: We don`t have the means to get you out anyway, sweetheart. We don`t.

CASEY ANTHONY: I understand that. But the opportunity was there, and it wasn`t taken advantage of and...

CINDY ANTHONY: We didn`t have an opportunity. I don`t know where you`re hearing that.

CASEY ANTHONY: Just give Dad the phone, please. I`m sorry. I don`t want to get frustrated. Just give Dad the phone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She really believes she`s the victim.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, my God. Calling you guys, a waste, huge waste. Honey, I love you. You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Waste, huge waste. That is blazoned across yet one of the T- shirts making money off the death of little Caylee.

Back to Andy Kahan. You were saying?

KAHAN: Yes. Like I said, I`ve never seen a victim exploited for financial gain in my 20-plus years in criminal justice. And the reality is that manufactured items you cannot legislate. Bad taste, immoral, yes, but you cannot restrict manufactured items. And I think this is just the beginning of the merchandising and marketing of both Caylee and the other - - and the tot mom, as well. And you haven`t seen anything until (INAUDIBLE) the trial and post-trial. This is just going to be a nightmare for Florida to deal with.

GRACE: Well, if the words, the sworn affidavit filed by the tot mom`s lawyer, is accurate, there may not be a trial. According to tot mom, she says prosecutors are angry with her because she refuses to plead guilty.

Straight back out to the lawyers, Sue Moss, Raymond Giudice, Mickey Sherman. What about it, Raymond Giudice?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, it makes me wonder. Last week, the state takes the death penalty off the table affirmatively. Now there may be a plea deal out there. I guess their best shot is to try to see how Mr. Baez is being paid. They ought to get their act together, focus on the scientific evidence, because that`s how you get this conviction.

GRACE: Mickey Sherman?

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I still agree with Ray. I mean, that motion -- I know we`re ahead of the game, but that motion as to what Baez is getting, what his people are getting, is ridiculous. They have no right, no business, none whatsoever in trying to find out...

GRACE: OK, hold on, hold on, hold on.

SHERMAN: ... what they`re getting paid for...

GRACE: Let`s see the lawyers. Sue Moss, let`s just explain and clear up what Raymond Giudice and Mickey Sherman have just pronounced. The state knows that there are nearly a dozen private lawyers and a fleet -- a fleet -- of high-paid experts on tot mom`s case. She hasn`t worked in years. She`s been camped out on her parents` sofa eating chips, OK? She doesn`t have any money.

So they want to know, is Baez, her defense attorney, brokering deals? And if he is, Sue Moss, the best deal may come out of a trial, as opposed to a guilty plea. So they want to know, is that true, and if so, is he steering the case toward a trial, which would benefit him and others financially? Why? Because on appeal, if there`s a conviction, that could be the number one ground of appeal -- My lawyer was after money. What`s wrong with that motion?

MOSS: I want to know where`s the money, honey, because if there`s an undisclosed conflict of interest and she`s convicted, she`s going to appeal and say there was ineffective assistance of counsel. Then our multi- million-dollar public trial will be for naught. We`re going to have another one. And let me tell you something. We`re in the middle of a recession. We don`t need two of these trials.

SHERMAN: Why would Baez steer it the wrong way? Why would he want to lose the case? He`s only going to get a book deal or movie deal if he wins. It`s in her interests...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: That is so not true!

SHERMAN: Show me he`s got a great book deal for losing.

GRACE: Every defense attorney that tries a high-profile case, win or lose, runs out and writes a book. And I`m not talking about just him or lawyers, I`m talking about her, her getting money, maybe funneling it to a third party so she won`t be getting the proceeds officially. But it can happen. It does happen all the time.

We are taking your calls. Benita in Iowa. Hi, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, when her trial comes, are they going to televise that?

GRACE: Most likely it would be televised. Florida is a firm believer in sunshine in the courtroom, which means -- the theory is there`s no detergent like sunshine, that all the windows and doors are open in that courtroom. In fact, in Florida, you`ve got to show why you don`t -- you shouldn`t have a camera, as opposed to other jurisdictions, and of course, every federal court, who doesn`t want to public to see what`s going on in those courtrooms.

Back to Natisha Lance, our producer on the story from the beginning. Tell me what you know about this sworn affidavit. We just find out about it as we go to air. It is filed and signed on page 3 by Jose Baez. Tell me -- she writes in here, in caps, all caps, "I did not commit the crime and the state is angry because I refuse to take a plea agreement." What plea agreement, Natisha Lance?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. The only plea agreement or anything of that nature we know about is that limited immunity case. So we don`t know anything about a plea agreement that Casey Anthony is referring to in this statement. And this is the first time we`ve heard from Casey Anthony.

GRACE: To Mike Brooks. Mike Brooks, the defense is also saying the jailhouse recorded the lawyers meeting with the tot mom. What do you think?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, there could have been, but you`re not going to hear anything because of privilege. You know, we`ve heard a lot of things that were supposedly coming out of that jail. I think if we -- if it had happened, probably would already have seen it by now.

GRACE: Well, remember in the O.J. Simpson murder trial, Rosy Grier, the football player turned preacher, apparently got some sort of a confession out of O.J. Simpson. Even though the sheriffs overheard it, it was not allowed in because of priest/parishioner privilege.

BROOKS: Yes, you know, was he really, what, a matchbox priest? You know, you can go on the back of a matchbox and sign up and they`ll give you a certificate and say you`re a preacher. I`m not buying that.

GRACE: My point is, whether he`s a pastor or not...

BROOKS: No.

GRACE: ... when things are overheard and observed behind bars, that doesn`t remove the privilege. It`s not whether they aren`t allowed to hear it, it`s whether they`re allowed to testify to it at trial, Mike Brooks.

BROOKS: That`s exactly right, Nancy. And you know, (INAUDIBLE) the attorneys. Every time an attorney goes in to visit their client, you know, is there an attorney/client privilege there? Absolutely. If the deputies overhear something, can they tell that? No?

GRACE: Ray Giudice, agree or disagree?

GIUDICE: Mike`s absolutely right. It`s sacrosanct and it needs to say that way.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDFATHER: You`re the boss. You know, you do what you need to do to get all this stuff going in that direction, OK?

CASEY ANTHONY: As far as that`s concerned, that one thing, yes, I pretty much handle it. But with everything else, I`m being told what to do, when to do it and everything else, Dad. No. You don`t understand. I may have been the boss walking in here, but the rules have surely changed. Everything`s out of my control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Is a plea deal on the table for tot mom, a plea deal to a lighter sentence? As we go to air, we get a sworn affidavit, handwritten part of it, by the tot mom and signed, filed by her lawyer, where she says the prosecutors are angry because she refuses to enter a plea. Also, money being made off little Caylee`s death.

To Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner of Broward County, author of "When to Call the Doctor." There`s a fleet of experts. How can she afford that? What kind of money are we talking about with a defense like that?

DR. JOSHUA PERPER, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, BROWARD COUNTY: Well, an expert takes anywhere from $400 an hour to up to $600, $800 an hour. So it can run in tens of thousands of dollars and perhaps even as much as $100,000 or more.

GRACE: Per expert, 500 bucks an hour for preparation, 500 bucks an hour to testify at trial, while you`re sitting out in the hall, waiting to take the stand. Where`s the money coming from?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

ALLEN: You`re here to try to help, right?

ANTHONY: Oh, absolutely.

ALLEN: You want us to help find your daughter, right?

ANTHONY: My one goal is regardless of how it happened - the thing is I don`t care, I will lie, I will steal or do whatever I can to find my daughter.

WELLS: I can tell you for a certainty that right now, looking at you, I know that everything you`ve told me is a lie. I`m very confident, just by having talked to you the short period of time that you know where she is.

And we want to find your daughter as much as you do.

ANTHONY: You guys have given everything to the police. They`re not helping me. It`s obvious. We know they`re intentions. They didn`t even give me 24 hours to help them, the police, without putting me here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that she can be out of the country or anywhere?

ANTHONY: Mom, stop it! I have to keep my mouth shut about how I feel and with everything else, because all I need to do is give the media more stuff for them, the detectives and everyone else to throw back in my face when this goes to trial.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

GRACE: To Andy Kahan, by the time it`s all over, do you believe copies of this sworn affidavit will end up on eBay?

KAHAN: It will probably be right after your show copies will go out to sale. It`s got your signature on it. That`s worth its weight in goal. One other point, Nancy, don`t forget, major networks are shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars for family members of her and what kind of shameful example are they setting on this case?

GRACE: You know, Andy, they put the perfume on the pig. They say, we`re not paying for an interview. We`re paying for licensing fees for the home video.

KAHAN: You call it what you want. The bottom line is it`s blood money, plain and simple and what kind of message are you sending out to the American public. It`s shameful on their part.

GRACE: To the lines. Gidget in South Carolina. Hi, Gidget.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I love your show and God bless your children.

GRACE: Thank you.

CALLER: I`ve been following the case since the beginning and I have a two-part question.

GRACE: OK.

CALLER: Who was the actual party or parties responsible for the cell phone bill that Casey had? And also, was there an actual second cell phone that she claimed was lost?

GRACE: OK. As to the second cell phone, the black jack she referred to, I don`t believe that`s ever been uncovered. And to Mike Brooks, do we know who was paying that cell phone bill?

BROOKS: No, Nancy, I personally don`t know who was paying that cell phone bill. We`re assuming it was her, but her parents paid for everything else along the way. When she wasn`t stealing money from her best friends.

GRACE: Kathy Belich, do we know who was paying that cell phone bill? I think it came to her, but I think that she was begged, borrowing and stealing money to pay it off.

BELICH: I think you`re absolutely right. She was supposed to pay the bill, I don`t think she was paying the bill.

GRACE: To Lillian Glass, what does it mean to you, Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist, body language expert, author of "I Know What You`re Thinking," she`s joining us from Lillian, her coming in the bottom of this typed, written affidavit her lawyer has prepared if her, in handwriting that the prosecution is angry because she won`t take her deal, written in all caps, what does this mean?

GLASS: Hostility, and also, the victim. It`s everybody else but her. She`s not taking responsibility and a lot of inner rage.

GRACE: Lillian, when I watch her on those jailhouse videos, the anger she directs at her mother and father, especially her mother, is incredible, because they`re only -- and her brother, Lee -- are the only ones sticking by her. And she is just venomous towards them.

GLASS: Absolutely. And this is a very sick woman. I mean, she`s sociopathic. You see it in every way, every bit of her communication. And it`s really so uncomfortable to watch when you look at her. And you just see what she must have done to this girl.

GRACE: Well, Lillian, just imagine being a two-year-old child .

GLASS: I know.

GRACE: . taking the brunt of that venom. Out to the lines, Molly, Arkansas. Hi, Molly.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I watch your show all the time and I have a question.

GRACE: Yes, ma`am.

CALLER: With all the pictures that have been shown and have been sold, don`t you think it`s odd that there`s never been a picture of Zanny the Nanny? If I had somebody watching my kids for two years, don`t you think I`d have pictures of them and my kids together?

GRACE: Our baby nurses have been in the family photos, they`ve been in the families out in the backyard, at the christening, at Christmas and Thanksgiving. You`re darn right. Think that will be an issue at trial, Sue Moss?

MOSS: Absolutely. And why doesn`t Cindy, who`s paying every single bill and literally this child`s other mother, how come she has no idea who Zanny the Nanny ever was either?

GRACE: Ray Giudice, Mickey Sherman, the state cannot comment on the defense`s non-production of a witness. It`s tantamount to commenting on the right to remain silent. But, Ray, once they bring up the existence of the imagine-nanny, as the T-shirt says, they`ve opened the door and the state can comment on where`s the nanny?

GIUDICE: Yeah, listen, Nancy, this defense has got to be portrayed to the jury artfully, because it is full of land mines.

GRACE: Artfully. Speaking of putting perfume on a pig, artfully. What about it, Sherman?

SHERMAN: You need Houdini. I couldn`t agree with both you`ve more. Because once that nanny`s name comes in to play, then the burden doesn`t technically, but in reality it does shift to the defense, saying, well, where is she and why is she not here?

GRACE: We`re taking your calls live.

Right now I want to give you the latest on superstar Rihanna. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Brown, you are ordered not to annoy, harass, molest, threaten or use force or violence against anyone. Do you understand that, sir?

CHRIS BROWN, SINGER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to a detective`s sworn statement, Brown became enraged after Rihanna read a text message on his cell phone from a woman he had a previous sexual relationship with. The affidavit said Brown told her, "I`m going to beat the blank out of you when we get home. You wait and see. Now I really am going to kill you."

Tmz.com reports that Chris brown is looking to arrange a plea deal with no jail time. Experts have purportedly told Brown that Rihanna`s alleged aggressiveness makes it hard for the state to pursue felony charges against Brown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oprah is urging singer Rihanna to leave, give up Chris Brown. Speaking on her talk show, Winfrey said Rihanna needs to reconsider her decision to reconcile with the R&B singer and get counseling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The talk show queen says the allegations that Chris Brown beat Rihanna have made her very sad. Last week on our show, Oprah offered Rihanna unsolicited advice saying this, quote, "If a man hits you once, he will hit you again."

GRACE: To Michael Yo, E! celebrity correspondent, Michael, apparently Chris Brown is expecting star treatment in court? He`s demanding that if he plea, it`s to a misdemeanor with no jail time. Is he crazy?

MICHAEL YO, E! CORRESPONDENT: Here`s the crazy thing, with Rihanna supporting him through all this, it might happen.

GRACE: I`m sorry, I couldn`t hear you, with Rihanna what?

YO: With Rihanna supporting him.

GRACE: Really, you think so? Keep that shot on Michael Yo.

Let`s go to Yvette Cade, victim of domestic violence. Her ex set her on fire at work. Miss Cade, isn`t it true that many time battered woman take the beater back, they reconcile only to be beaten again. Should that make a difference in court?

YVETTE CADE, VICTIM OF ABUSE: Well, I like to put it, my heart says yet, but my conscience tells me no. Rihanna, I would like to personally tell you to take a step back and let Chris Brown walk the plank by himself. Needs to man up and go to court and I think in the long run, it will be helpful to him and for you, you neat to let him and his family deal with, take control. You, your family and friends, you need to look at this like this is impacting me for the rest of my life.

GRACE: With me is Yvette Cade, who is showing you tonight just some of the scars she endured as a victim of domestic abuse. To Emil Wilbekin editor at "Giant" magazine, I understand that they`re finagling a self- defense case by saying that Rihanna slapped him first. That is not self- defense, Emil.

EMIL WILBEKIN, EDITOR, "GIANT" MAGAZINE: No, absolutely not. And when you read the LAPD report, it`s very scary that Chris would slam her head into the window several times. A lot of people don`t know that he also knows karate very well, so the blows very deliberate.

GRACE: To Lillian Glass, very quickly, it`s not uncommon for a domestic abuse victim to take the perpetrator back. In fact, it is a known part of the cycle of domestic violence.

LILLIAN: Absolutely, Nancy. In fact, they say it`s about seven to 10 times that this dance goes back and forth between the couple in this cycle of violence. And it`s so sad, because somebody could end up getting killed.

GRACE: Mickey Sherman, isn`t it true that self-defense only applies when you use defense tactics necessary to stop an attack. Like, I can`t slap you and then you shoot me down with an Uzi.

SHERMAN: If someone pushes you, you push them back. You can`t escalate the level of attack to a knife or punch. But having said that, the good news about this case is that it raises people`s confidence about the domestic violence issue.

GRACE: Yes. There you go, Mickey, turning a lemon into lemonade. The good thing about the savage beating Rihanna took. OK. We`ll be right back with the lawyers, Susan Moss, Ray Giudice, we`re taking your calls.

But happy anniversary to Fayetteville, Georgia, friends of the show, Anne and Chuck Lynch. They have beat the odds, married for years. Take a look. Happy anniversary Anne and Chuck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The one issue that arose in court concerning her rights is whether or not the court should issue a stay away order in this case. Rihanna requested that no such order be issued and so the court issued what is known as a level one protective order, ordering Chris Brown not to annoy, molest, or harass her. We feel that that`s more than sufficient in this case.

OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: Chris Brown and Rihanna, if I were your friend, I would call you up and I would say, give it some time, get yourself some counseling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both of you.

WINFREY: Take care of yourself, heal yourself first. And also, love doesn`t hurt. I`ve been saying this to women for years. Love doesn`t hurt. And if a man hits you once, he will hit you again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight to Michael Yo, that was Oprah Winfrey speaking out to Rihanna. Michael, E! celebrity correspondent, I know you think it may make a difference if she is reunited with Chris Brown. I understand he`s bought a $50,000 diamond ring. Sounds like restitution to me.

YO: Yeah. He was in Miami. They were trying to, you know, meet up and talk things out at P. Diddy`s house in Miami. And he went out to Bell Harbor and bought her a $50,000 ring. So he`s trying to make good out of a bad situation. And it`s just a terrible situation that`s happening to both of them.

GRACE: Sounds like somebody`s changing his tune. When we first started off the show, you were all like, well, it may go away because they were reuniting and now it`s a terrible situation. What happened, Michael Yo?

YO: No, what I am saying is she is supporting him. They are in Santa Monica right down the road where we are recording a song together. So she is - I`m not saying it`s right.

GRACE: So am I supposed to pretend he didn`t beat the crap out of her?

YO: No, not at all. And I`m not supporting Chris Brown on this.

GRACE: Just because P. Diddy got them back together, that`s supposed to mean something to me? It doesn`t.

YO: No. What I`m saying is Rihanna is supporting him. And I`m getting phone calls saying half the people have Chris` back on this, saying, look, Rihanna is supporting them, so I`m supporting him. I`m not saying it`s right, Nancy, I`m just saying, this is what`s going on.

GRACE: FYI, I`m a woman and I don`t have Brown`s back on this. I saw that picture, Liz. Please put that picture up in case Mr. Yo from E! has not seen it. No, I`m not talking about that picture. I`m talking about that picture.

YO: I`ve seen it.

GRACE: Taking your calls. Hillary in Florida.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my calls. Love the show and those wonderful little angels you`ve been blessed with. I`m from the islands and my 21-year-old daughter, where are her parents in all this? I`m hearing a lot of talk and nothing about parent support or being with her parents.

GRACE: Right.

CALLER: It`s right back to Mr. Beat Me Up Again.

GRACE: It`s interesting that you said that. Back to Emil with "Giant." I understand the father is saying that they can`t get in touch with her. That someone has, quote, "a stranglehold" on her.

Basically, that`s correct. Rihanna does not want to talk to any of her people. She`s blocked out everybody. She`s all about being with Chris. She`s not listening to managers, she`s not listening to her father, her parents. She`s basically like, I`m in love and I`m going to be with him and no one can tell her anything. We have to remember that Rihanna is 21 years old. She`s not mature, she doesn`t have a lot of experience in this. She`s following her heart and making really bad choices.

GRACE: To Sheeba in Illinois, hi, Sheeba.

CALLER: Hi. I wanted to wish your twins the best. They`re just beautiful.

GRACE: Can you believe they`re 16 months?

CALLER: No, I can`t.

GRACE: Thanks to your prayers and others, I remember when Lucy weighed two pounds, Sheeba.

CALLER: I remember that. But they`re just beautiful and I love looking at them.

GRACE: What`s your question?

CALLER: My question is, does an abuser ever stop? I wonder when he gets back together, he will learn -- and this has been my experience from nursing, he will learn to hit her in places where it won`t show.

GRACE: Interesting question, Sheeba.

CALLER: If she has a baby, gets pregnant, he will try to get rid of that infant.

GRACE: Lillian Glass, isn`t it true that violence escalates during pregnancy?

GLASS: Oh, very much so. In fact, violence escalates every time the person goes back to the sick relationship. She needs to get somebody in her corner helping her.

GRACE: And very quickly, back to Michael Yo. We know about the diamond ring. We know about the reconciliation that you have gleefully advised me about. But what do we know about a text message that`s tantamount to a confession? I understand the whole reason Rihanna got mad is some woman`s texting Chris Brown, allegedly, his nearly 40-year-old manager, who apparently had some sort of relationship with him when he was 16. Go ahead. Is there a confession in the text message?

YO: Well, Tina Davis is the one that discovered Chris Brown and actually got him signed to his record company. There are two rumors. It could be Tina Brown, his manager, or it could be Leona Lewis. But nobody knows the real story. Those are the two names that are floating around.

GRACE: Confession? Has there been a confession? Did he write a text message basically apologize for the attack?

YO: No.

GRACE: All righty.

YO: He did -- he did release a statement, but no .

GRACE: Yeah, I saw the statement.

YO: He released a statement.

GRACE: He said he`s sorry about what transpired, as if it all happened to him. We`ll be back with the latest tomorrow night.

Very quickly, I want to bring you the latest from Satsuma, Florida, in the search for little Haleigh. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last night at Chili`s.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did he do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He got down on his knee and said, will you marry me? Everybody`s going to take this marriage thing the wrong way. But it`s not. Everything`s still focused on Haleigh. This is what Haleigh wanted. She always talked about. Even if she`s not with us, she`s still here with us. Everybody knows that I love Haleigh and Ronald and (inaudible).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to T.J. Hart with SKY 97.3 F.M., is Ronald Cummings, Haleigh`s father, engaged to the last person to have seen Haleigh alive?

T.J. HART, SKY 97.3: Yes, indeed they are. The engagement came Sunday at a nice restaurant in Palatka. He had the marriage license in hand.

GRACE: T.J. Hart.

Joining me there outside the crime scene in Satsuma, Florida, Teresa Neves, paternal grandmother of Haleigh. The timing is a little unusual, according to some onlookers. Why now?

TERESA NEVES, PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER OF HALEIGH: Well, it is unusual for some onlookers, but those people did not live with my two grandchildren. And my grandchildren, both Haleigh and Junior, have very often said they would love for their daddy to marry Misty and that they wanted Misty to be their mommy. So I feel like they`re trying to fulfill a wish for Haleigh so when she comes home she`ll have that extra happiness to celebrate.

GRACE: And Susan Moss, does this mean they cannot testify against each other, if it comes to that at trial?

MOSS: It does not mean that. There`s an exception to the spousal privilege if it involves hurting a child.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We did everything just for you. Please, we need her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, Haleigh know I love you. I love you very much. We`ll find you. God will bring you home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To you, Ray Giudice, according to Florida statute, all the naysayers are wrong, because they`re getting married does not mean they can`t testify against each other at trial?

GIUDICE: Suet`s right. There`s no privilege here, especially for an event that occurred prior to the marriage. Even if you got around the exception that Sue just talked about. So I don`t think that`s it. And I don`t see any guile in these people that that`s what this is planned for. They`ve been cooperative, examined, questioned multiple times. I don`t see that.

GRACE: Mickey?

SHERMAN: There`s no lawyers involved. You should lawyer up. But they haven`t.

GRACE: That`s coming from a defense attorney. I really appreciate that.

SHERMAN: And how -- and how about the incredible endorsement by the grandma? That both kids would have had to have loved to have this young lady as their step mom.

GRACE: Speaking of the grandma, Teresa Neves joining us outside the crime scene, Satsuma, is it true authorities are making them move their tent?

NEVES: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Why?

NEVES: We were given a letter that stated that tents are only allowed in designated campgrounds.

GRACE: You know what, pardon my French, but if that`s the law, the law`s an ass. These people living in tents to be close to where they think where little Haleigh disappeared. With me, Teresa Neves, Haleigh`s grandma speaking out tonight. Tipline, 888-277-8477.

Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Jamel Bryant, 22, Bellville, Illinois, killed Iraq. Loved handing out candy to kids in Iraq, music, playing piano, writing songs. Dreamed of taking his mom to Paris and a taping of "The Price is Right". Leaves behind parents, Antonio and Cecilia, brother, Antonio, grandmother Barbara, fiancee, Rochelle, also serving the army. Jamel Bryant, American hero.

Thank you to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And thank you to a friend of show, Wendy Hayes, making this Nancy Grace cake for her husband grandmother`s 85th birthday. Let`s see the cake. She never misses a show.

Everyone, I`ll see tomorrow at 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END