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Nancy Grace
Raunchy Casey Anthony Party Photos Made Public
Aired March 12, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news in the desperate search for a 2- year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthonys` home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell. In the last hours, tot mom Casey Anthony in a Florida courtroom in full ankle shackles, extreme makeover, tot mom dressed like an ad for Ann Taylor Loft. It`s a far cry from photos of her prior to trial in a mini-dress, boots and a push-up bra, photos taken literally in the days and hours after her daughter goes missing.
Grandparents George and Cindy Anthony in court, seated just feet away, directly behind their 22-year-old daughter charged with murder one. After heated courtroom argument, the presence of 17 mystery hairs -- repeat, the presence of 17 mystery hairs -- revealed to be in the trunk of tot mom`s car, the same trunk police say hid Caylee`s decomposing body for days on end. Whose hair? How did it get there?
And the judge puts the skids on releasing grandfather George`s five- page suicide note. A battle over experts blows up in court all over an entomologist. That`s right, a battle over bugs, bugs at the scene where Caylee`s body is found.
And tonight, we learn while tot mom sitting primly in court, nearly 100 -- 100 -- stunning hidden photos discovered, tot mom being groped on camera by another man, urinating in a public parking lot -- that`s classy! -- provocatively tonguing a burrito with another woman. And that`s the tip of the iceberg. Many of the photos posted in the days following Caylee`s disappearance. All the while late-night defense motions after secret video of tot mom behind bars privately meeting with lawyers. Tot mom`s lawyers want that video secret and demand all future jailhouse recordings of tot mom stop now.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDMOTHER: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl! I need to find her!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony is back in court, this video of her returning to court just a short time ago. Judge Stan Strickland rules on whether or not to seal a suicide note allegedly written by Casey`s father, George.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t see it as relevant to this case.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I`m just hoping and praying that I get to go home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Defense doesn`t want to accept getting the hard drive. They want the notes. They want to know how the process worked. They don`t want to just accept Detective Melich`s conclusions about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s in the best interests of all parties involved that we have full disclosure.
CINDY ANTHONY: They can take our whole house down. They can level it. They can dig a big hole. I don`t care what they want. Caylee`s not there.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How come everybody`s saying that you`re not upset, that you`re not crying, that you show no caring of where Caylee is at all?
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I`m not sitting here (DELETED) crying every two seconds!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s hard for me to accept that she would do anything to Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: All I want is Caylee home, but I want to be there when she comes home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, to Satsuma, Florida. A 5-year-old girl tucked into bed five hours later, she`s gone, vanished into thin air, the back door propped wide open. Dad comes home from the night shift to find not a single trace of little Haleigh.
Major development. Police tear off the home`s back door, that door propped open the night Haleigh`s snatched, the door taken into evidence, police evidence, tonight. Why now? This as 100 lawmen converge for the largest search yet covering 13 square miles.
In the last hour, Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings, legally marries the last person to see Haleigh alive, the girlfriend/baby-sitter allegedly sleeping in the bed next to Haleigh the night she`s kidnapped. As we go to air, the two jetting to New York to honeymoon in the midst of the search courtesy, NBC`s "Today" show.
But tonight, is a custody battle brewing over Haleigh`s 4-year-old little brother? Haleigh`s mom hires a lawyer and now has her own private eye. Where is 5-year-old Haleigh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father of missing little girl Haleigh Cummings, Ronald Cummings, getting married to his 17-year-old girlfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some critics say the timing is just downright wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who gets married a month after their 5-year-old disappears?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is what Haleigh wanted. She`s always talked about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When she comes home, we`ll have a great, big wedding. She can be the flower girl, and she can see it all again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One hundred deputies are searching a heavily- wooded area near the home of Haleigh Cummings. Investigators removed the door from the home where Haleigh disappeared. They haven`t said why.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We really don`t want to release anything that would jeopardize a criminal investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In another development, it looks like a child custody battle may be brewing. Haleigh`s mother reportedly feels her son, Junior, may be in danger living with his father.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haleigh, if you`re out there, Mommy loves you! And your daddy loves you! We miss you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reward for the information leading to Haleigh`s whereabouts is now just over $35,000.
RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER: Please, if you have my daughter, bring her home, please. All I want is Haleigh. That`s all I want.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. In the last hours, tot mom Casey Anthony in a Florida courtroom in full ankle shackles. While tot mom is in court, ironically, primly dressed, demure and proper, nearly 100 stunning hidden photos discovered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: God, I just want to go home!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony in the courtroom. It`s a big decision day for the judge. They`re even calling witnesses today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What else was in the trunk of that car?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) of dirt, several pieces of hairs. (INAUDIBLE) what appears to be a stain.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDFATHER: I got within three feet of my daughter`s car, the worst odor that you could possibly smell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very modest ensemble. She has the sweater on, hair pulled back, not much makeup, the light purple shirt.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re tired of the lies. No more lies. What happened to Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I just want to be with you guys. I just want to help find her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We weren`t allowed to process anything in that car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He found 17 hairs, and then on top of that, he found several stains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bug specialist and maggots found in the car...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there anything else sent to him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maggots in preservation solution.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was pizza full of maggots and all kinds of stuff, an odor that was very, very, very strong.
CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots. It stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been.
CASEY ANTHONY: Once we get Caylee, everything else will figure itself out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150. Mark, explain.
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, greetings from Orlando. We`re on Orange Avenue, right across from the courthouse where Casey Anthony showed up a couple of hours ago for a hearing. She was wearing a cardigan sweater, a purple shirt under that. George and Cindy Anthony, her parents, were here.
But Jose Baez took a couple of people to school today. That`s her defense attorney. He revealed that his forensic expert, Dr. Henry Lee, uncovered 17 additional hairs and some stains that Orange County sheriff`s investigators overlooked.
But Nancy, the most hellacious part of this, of course, your staff uncovering about a hundred additional photos of Casey Anthony partying, in one of those pictures, a tattooed man grabbing the right breast of Casey Anthony, also Casey Anthony licking a burrito. And she was touching tongues with another woman. There are other photos, also, Nancy. I am just too embarrassed to tell you about them.
GRACE: OK. Mark Williams, I assume that some of these are the photos that have heretofore been unreleased. Let me ask you this, Mark. We know that many of these photos were posted after little Caylee goes missing.
WILLIAMS: Nancy, some of those photos were taken five days after she went missing. She was partying at the Fusian club in downtown Orlando, and that`s where some of those photos came from, more than likely from her Photobucket account.
GRACE: Out to Natisha Lance, our producer there on the scene at the courthouse. Natisha, what happened in court today?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, there were four motions that were heard today in court. The first motion that was heard was argued by (INAUDIBLE) Now, this was about the suicide note. The judge granted that motion, saying that that note will not be released at this time. There were other motions, the bench notes the defense was also wanting, also the sanction motion that Jose Baez was arguing, wanting sanctions for the state because he said that there was evidence that was taken out of the car (INAUDIBLE) notified about that evidence. And the last motion that was argued, Nancy, was the forensic evidence from Ricardo Morales`s computer.
GRACE: Bombshell in court today. Mystery hairs emerge found in tot mom`s car trunk, the same trunk police say hid little Caylee`s body for an undetermined amount of time as it decomposed, creating a foul smell noticed by many.
Now, Mark Williams says that the defense, Jose Baez, took the state to school, claiming that Henry Lee, one of -- the state -- hold your horses, Williams. Take a listen to Henry Lee a couple of weeks ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Dr. Henry Lee, what part of the car did you examine?
DR. HENRY LEE, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, CONSULTANT TO ANTHONY DEFENSE: OK. Nancy, I look at the whole car. Then I examine the liner, the carpet, the content of the car. I also want to take this opportunity to thank the Orange sheriff department, the crime scene investigator and detective. They`re true professionals. So the whole examination took a whole day and very professional manner. We did find some additional evidence, which was collected and handed to the sheriff`s department.
GRACE: Dr. Lee, do you plan on looking at any other evidence in the case, such as the hair samples?
LEE: Not right now. My initial agreement was just to examine the car, to look at the car. So I don`t know any other evidence. And of course, a lot depends on the schedule and...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Mark Williams, I`m not sure what you`re talking about because Henry Lee said right here that the police and investigators for the state were true professionals and did everything by the book. So what exactly do you mean, Williams?
WILLIAMS: Well, I think Henry Lee was putting on a good show because, you know, he didn`t say anything about 17 extra hairs. I think he was holding his cards close to his vest that day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: When I watch her on those jailhouse videos, the anger she directs at her mother and father, especially her mother, is incredible.
CINDY ANTHONY: We need to have something to go on.
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I don`t have anything.
CINDY ANTHONY: You`ll be fine once Caylee`s found.
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I understand that. Do you understand my position on this? You guys expect me to have a thousand answers and I have nothing!
CINDY ANTHONY: I was in Lake County two days ago.
CASEY ANTHONY: OK.
CINDY ANTHONY: Is there anything there?
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom! I don`t want to go (INAUDIBLE) go into the same thing...
CINDY ANTHONY: I know. I know.
CASEY ANTHONY: ... that it`s always been, so please stop it!
GRACE: They`re the only ones sticking by her. She is just venomous towards them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And they stuck by her in court today, sitting just a few feet directly behind her. We were showing you various photos, nearly 100 seemingly hidden photos discovered. There you see tot mom urinating in a parking lot. That`s classy. That`s just the tip of the iceberg. There are photos of a male groping her breast. Why you`d want to capture that on camera, I don`t know. There are other photos of tot mom tonguing a burrito provocatively with another woman, multiple alcohol shots. It just goes on and on. Much of this will never come into evidence.
We are taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, felony prosecutor out of Atlanta Eleanor Dixon. Also with me out of Atlanta, well-known defendant attorney Peter Odom, and of course, renowned defense attorney out of the San Francisco jurisdiction John Burris. Eleanor, weigh in.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Nancy, some of these photos may be able to be shown because they would show what she was doing the day she allegedly was searching for her little daughter. And it goes straight to motive.
GRACE: Now, Eleanor, the one you`re seeing right there -- well, we just passed it -- it`s actually one of a series of provocative black and white photos that have -- there`s the tonguing the burrito shot -- that have suggestive messages over them that are extremely provocative messages.
To John Burris. Some of these were taken before the child goes missing, some of them taken after. I think Eleanor`s right, the ones taken or posted after she goes missing may very well come into evidence.
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t know that I agree with that. It depends on what the photographs show. I mean, I don`t see...
GRACE: Oh, come on, John!
BURRIS: Well, the question is, if they show...
GRACE: What`s the harm of a shot of your client urinating in a parking lot? That doesn`t prove anything, right?
(LAUGHTER)
BURRIS: Exactly the point. I mean, it goes to character evidence, as negative character evidence, and there`s no way that evidence should come in. I mean, at the end of the day, you`re talking about consciousness of guilt. Does any of this prove consciousness of guilt, or is she just a bad person who has a terrible personality and does provocative things? None of that, it seems to me, goes to the issue of guilt or innocence and it doesn`t go to consciousness of guilt. It may be bad character, and I`m sure the prosecution would like to get as much of it in as possible, but I doubt if they`ll get much of it in, if any at all.
GRACE: Thank you, John Burris. Peter Odom, if I did not know better myself, I might fall for that hook, line and sinker. But the relevance of these photos, these newly discovered nearly 100 stunning and many of them provocative and disturbing photos -- the ones that occurred or were posted after Caylee goes missing, Eleanor is correct, that goes to her state of mind during her so-called search for Caylee.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I know, Nancy, that that`s what the state will argue, but the fact is, these photos do nothing but try and prove that she`s a bad person, that she`s a party girl. They`re not relevant. They`re highly prejudicial. It`s very unlikely they`re going to come into evidence.
GRACE: Says you. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers," weigh in.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I don`t think they prove she`s a bad person. What they prove is, following the death of her child, she had a burst of energy, of excitement, hypersexuality, like the tonguing of the burrito, being on a stripper pole, grabbing another woman`s breasts. It suggests excitement that her daughter was out of the way. She wasn`t lying in bed crying. She wasn`t out searching with the other searchers. She was partying. This provides a very strong motive for the crime.
And if you lock at those clips of her in court -- you know how she has that sweater and she`s kind of demurely, you know, fastening the button over her breast? I think Jose Baez is very smart because he`s sending a subtle message that this is a woman who wants to cover her breast and her sexuality. Nothing could be further from the truth.
GRACE: OK, I`m looking here at "The Globe," and it`s got the text over those black and white provocative photos I was telling you about. They say things like, I`ve got tricks you`ve never seen. I`m sure you do. Subtlety is my weakness. Not. Maybe I didn`t mention you won`t regret my attention. Give me a minute to charm you and you`ll know what I mean.
Tot mom Casey Anthony posting sexy shots of herself on a raunchy Internet tease. We`re showing you some of those.
Let`s go out to the lines and Nicki in Washington. Hi, Nicki.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So nice to talk to you.
GRACE: Likewise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is with this whole thing, you know, how she broke down and cried supposedly in the jailhouse when she found out Caylee died -- is this really true? Because I watch your show almost every day and I haven`t seen anything like that. I`ve just seen her, like, screaming at her parents and stuff like that, or just -- like, she`s just all about herself.
GRACE: You know, Nicki...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she`s really narcissistic.
GRACE: Two things spring to mind. One, you`ve got it backwards from what we reported last night, but your analysis is pretty uncanny in that from what we`ve seen of her all of these months, it would be very unusual if she broke down crying.
You`re right because, Natisha Lance, you reported last night it was Baez who looked like he was crying while she crossed her arms and looked the other way angrily.
LANCE: That`s correct, Nancy. It was Baez who appeared to be crying. But today after court, he said that`s absurd, he was not crying behind -- in jail when that video was shot.
GRACE: Well, we`ll find out when that video is ever released.
Back to Kathi Belich with CNN affiliate WFTV, in court today. What was her demeanor, Kathi?
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: She was very subdued today both in the way she was dressed and the way she was acting. She did smile a couple of times. I didn`t see her acknowledge her parents, but I did see her acknowledge one of her new defense attorneys a couple of times before and after the hearing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: Just tell her that I love her and that I miss her. I mean, that`s the constant.
GEORGE ANTHONY: My focus is always on my granddaughter. It always will be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is the light for our day. She`s the brightest little star. She has the most amount of energy. She is -- she`s extremely curious.
CINDY ANTHONY: What do you want me to tell Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: That Mommy loves her very much and she`s the most important thing in this entire world to me!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tot mom just hours ago in a Florida courtroom in full shackles. Ironically, as she`s sitting in court dressed primly and properly, about 100 hidden photos are discovered of her partying like mad.
Back to Natisha Lance, our producer, in court today. Explain to me what the judge ruled on grandfather George Anthony`s suicide letter.
LANCE: The judge did say, for now, he`s going to grant that motion so the suicide note will be blocked. However, was there no representation from the media, and usually there is counsel there from the local newspaper (INAUDIBLE) he said there is a possibility that this could come back into play at a later date.
GRACE: And Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150, I also understand that there was a battle over the experts, specifically about bugs. What happened, in a nutshell?
WILLIAMS: Nancy, that`s an interesting thing. I did not hear anything about that. I just heard about the garbage bag earlier. But I know there`s an entomologist who`s -- who will probably come into play in this entire case whenever this trial gets under way, now scheduled for October 12th.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: My wife fell apart, she said, "George, we lost her. We lost her." And I said, "Lost who? Lost who?" She said, "Caylee."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The manner of this death in this case is homicide.
G. ANTHONY: My heart is killing me right now to say it. Even if it`s going into my granddaughter is not -- no longer alive. If we lost my granddaughter, I`ve lost my daughter.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: She`s my only concern, next to Caylee, is you guys. My only concern.
G. ANTHONY: That distinct odor, that`s something I`ll never forget. I believe something was placed in the back of that trunk and I don`t want to believe it was my granddaughter.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: We`re a grieving family, frustrated as heck because -- I didn`t even care where Casey was at. I still don`t care where Casey is at. All I want is Caylee back. Do you understand that?
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t care about the media. I don`t care about what`s people been about me. All I want is Caylee home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: As tot mom sitting in court today, more party pics discovered, graphic and provocative photos of tot mom, some before and some after little Caylee goes missing and stark contrast to this video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
G. ANTHONY: Hey, that`s cool. I didn`t know you could do that with that.
CASEY ANTHONY: You could be all over the camera. We both are.
G. ANTHONY: The memory stick doesn`t -- OK. Cool. Caylee Marie! Hey, look!
CASEY ANTHONY: Say cheese.
CAYLEE MARIE: Cheese.
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, god! Oh, god!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is home video from YouTube of tot mom and little Caylee.
We are taking your calls live. Monica in New York, hi, Monica.
MONICA, FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for all you do for everyone.
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE). Thank you.
MONICA: And the twins -- the twins are beautiful. God bless.
GRACE: You know, every time I look at that video of Caylee, the next to the last one where it`s just her looking at the camera, it`s just heartbreaking. It really is.
MONICA: It is. It is. She`s a monster.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
MONICA: My question is, I`d like to know why the Florida prosecutors don`t put the death penalty on the table and then let Jose Baez bargain it down after Casey Anthony admits to what she did?
GRACE: You know, Monica, that`s a question many of us have asked.
To Eleanor Dixon, now we get this sworn affidavit filed by Jose Baez where the tot mom says prosecutors are angry with her because she won`t take a deal. Does that suggest to you, as it does to me, that they have, even informally, offered a plea deal of some sort?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Yes, it does sound like it, Nancy, and certainly there are enough aggravating circumstances here to seek the death penalty on the part of the Florida prosecutors. For example, the murder of her child under the age of 12. Certainly that alone would cause you to seek the death penalty.
GRACE: What about it, Peter Odom?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The reason that the prosecutors haven`t put it back on the table is they don`t think the jury is going to give this woman the death penalty. They don`t think they have the evidence for it or else they would seek it because they do have a legal basis.
GRACE: John Burris?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think that`s correct. I mean you don`t, you don`t do the death penalty unless you have a solid case that you know you will actually going to win on the first degree exception. In a case like this, it may not be a first degree. But I know that you differ with that. But it may not be and so they might think that they don`t have the first-degree murder case and therefore you don`t want to spend all the money and time on a death penalty case which causes the case to be extended three or four times as long.
GRACE: What do you think, El?
DIXON: Well, I disagree with the defense attorneys. I think there`s plenty here for the death penalty and they should go for it.
GRACE: Out to Natisha lance, our producer on the story, explain to me the battle of the experts over bugs.
I think I`ve got Natisha Lance. Let me try Kathi Belich. Kathi, can you hear me OK?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: I can.
GRACE: OK. Can you explain to me what happened regarding the entomologist?
BELICH: What I understand is there was a trash bag in Casey`s car trunk and there was a paper towel in the car trunk and there were bugs at least on the paper towel. Those two pieces of evidence were sent to labs and when Dr. Lee went to the sheriff`s office to look at the car those pieces of evidence were not there at the time because they had been sent off.
So the defense was trying to make some sort of issue that that evidence was being hidden from him and then the experts who examined those two things were being kept off of the prosecutor`s witness list for some reason and so they went through all of this today, the defense asking for sanctions against the prosecutors for allegedly doing these things and (INAUDIBLE).
GRACE: To John Lucich, former investigator and author of "Cyber Lies." John, why is it when the defense has their back against the wall, they have nothing else they can say, they claim prosecutorial misconduct. That somehow everybody is hiding things from them. Nobody`s hiding anything.
JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": Everything to these guys is going to be nefarious even when he`s talking about the (INAUDIBLE) notes when it`s a policy to get rid of your notes when you finalize reports. I did it when I was with the state organized crime bureau, so they`ve got to point to something that makes them look like they`re doing something wrong when they`re really just following the policy of the police department.
What they did -- they could have left the evidence there to just to decay further. They had to send it off, get the results, and they`re trying to make something out of it that it`s not.
GRACE: And remember, to all the defense attorneys on the panel tonight, I don`t have to tell you, Eleanor, the defense discovery continues all the way up until trial. We`re a long way away from trial. The state hasn`t violated any statute.
Straight to Dr. Michael Arnall, board certified forensic pathologist. Dr. Arnall is joining us out of Denver tonight. Dr. Arnall, thank you for being with us. From a forensic standpoint, Doctor, will the defense (INAUDIBLE) with problems proving the nanny did it?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Right now, I am not aware of any physical evidence that`s been disclosed that suggest that anyone else has been involved other than the Casey Anthony family and all of the physical evidence at the scene has been said to be related to some type of object or evidence that is present in the Casey Anthony household.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Arnall, we see the defense today requesting the names and backgrounds, education, experience, resumes, CVs of all the state`s experts. I see right now that they are going to attack the credibility of the experts.
Isn`t that common when you go to trial, you expect to get cross examined out the ying yang?
ARNALL: You certainly do, and if they cannot attack the evidence itself then their only alternative is to attack the individual who examined the evidence.
GRACE: How does that make you feel, Dr. Arnall, when you, a board- certified forensic pathologist with your background, go into court and take a black eye on cross-examination with the defense trying to tear you down?
ARNALL: Well, that`s a two-edged sword. If the defense attorney attempts to give the expert a black eye and fails, it has been my sense that frequently the jury will award some philosophical point to the witness and subtract a point from the defense attorney who unsuccessfully attempts to impeach the witness.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Marcia in Illinois. Hi, Marcia.
MARCIA, ILLINOIS CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I love your show especially in regards to Casey Anthony and trying to hold her responsible for something for the first time in her life. I don`t think she`s ever had accountability.
But my question is when she`s in jail before Caylee`s body is ever found and she is talking to her parents and she says several times I wish this had never happened. I just wish this had never happened.
Would somebody that is truly innocent say something like that? It sounds like she`s done something and she wishes it never happened, she hadn`t done it.
GRACE: Bethany?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": She`s saying, I wish my daughter hadn`t gone missing or I wish I had Caylee back. She never even refers to Caylee. She says I wish this hadn`t happened and I don`t think it`s even remorse at her lack of empathy in searching for the child. The "this" is that she`s in jail and all the anger towards her parents is because they`re probing and probing, bless their heart, trying to get to the bottom of what happened and Casey is a bully.
She consistently bullies them so the "this" is the situation that she wishes wouldn`t have happened.
GRACE: To Chris in Oregon, hi, Chris.
CHRIS, OREGON CALLER: Hi, Nancy. And thank you very much for your wonderful show and sharing pictures of your babies.
GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?
CHRIS: It`s about Zanny the nanny. And I was wondering since she was not the lady taking care of Caylee all this time, who was taking care of her? And has that person come forward at all?
GRACE: To Natisha Lance, what do we know?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: There was a neighbor who took care of Caylee at one time. There was also a friend of Casey who took care of Caylee at one time, but never that we know of was there a Zanny the nanny who took care of Caylee.
GRACE: So bottom line, Mark Williams, George Anthony`s suicide note is likely to remain secret forever?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: That`s right, Nancy. It depends if the media outlet here in Orlando asks for that suicide note, they can petition the courts and the courts, nine chances out of ten, will release that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Haleigh Cummings has been missing over a month now and a new search is breaking out. What happens on the same day? Her dad Ronald Cummings is marrying Misty Croslin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Misty Croslin is the last person who saw Haleigh exactly one month ago when she tucked her into this toddler bed in her room. But when she woke up, Haleigh was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misty Croslin says the focus is still on Haleigh and that the wedding is just what the 5-year-old would have wanted.
MISTY CROSLIN, RONALD CUMMINGS` FIANCEE: Everybody knows that I love Haleigh, and Ronald and Junior.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have gone door to door. They`ve interviewed Haleigh`s family members several times. They`ve received 2,000 tips.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pieces of evidence had been collected.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators removed the door from the home where Haleigh disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ron and Misty were questioned late again yesterday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police in Putnam County, Florida started a new search today in a new area. Authorities tell us the area has not been searched before, but the search is not the result of a tip.
RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Baby, if you`re watching you know you`ll always be daddy`s little girl. I love you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Art Harris, investigative journalist at www.artharris.com. Art, what`s the latest?
ART HARRIS, WWW.ARTHARRIS.COM, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: The latest, Nancy, is they searched this 17 -- stretch of road along highway 17 looking for something that may have been thrown out of a car, but no details on what that was.
At the same time, investigators are examining a door they`ve taken off the back of Ronald`s home where the alleged kidnapper of Haleigh entered.
GRACE: What can you tell me about, number one, them getting married, and number two, a potential custody battle?
HARRIS: Well, the marriage happened today, a small family ceremony. It was reportedly a beautiful ceremony in a small Baptist church. And the -- as for the custody fight, you have a former -- you know, the former fiancee, wife, mother of Haleigh and little brother Ronald who wants her children back.
She wants custody. Does not think that Ronald is in a safe environment. Has hired an attorney, a veteran family lawyer from Florida Kim Picazio to examine the records to get 200 pages of court transcript and to try to re-open a custody hearing that she does not think was fair to the mother.
GRACE: Out to T.J. Hart with WSKY, 97.3. T.J., what can you tell me about the marriage that went down just a couple of hours ago?
T.J. HART, PROGRAM & NEWS DIR., WSKY 97.3FM, COVERING STORY: Really not much. It was pretty much a secret as far as the location was. It turned out to be at a very small church in the area. Sources from the family tell us that it was a beautiful ceremony, and we understand that they`re going to be honeymooning in New York.
GRACE: To Marlaina Schiavo, our producer who has spent hours and hours with Haleigh`s family. So cops converged today at the home and they tear off the back door as Art Harris has just reported. Why now, Marlaina?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, SPENT TIME WITH MISSING HALEIGH`S FAMILY: When I spoke to Captain Schauland earlier I asked him that very question and he just said it`s part of an ongoing investigation and he wouldn`t elaborate on why they took the door now a month after Haleigh went missing.
GRACE: To John Lucich, former investigator, author of "Cyber Lies," why take the door now, John?
LUCICH: They really should have taken the door off when they got the information and I believe it was cousin Joe who had an MO, modus operandi, of doing this in the past when he committed burglaries. That would have been the exact time to take it off. Why wait all this time? They must be operating on a tip, but they really should have taken that door back then just -- they`re looking for tool marks and they`re looking for a lot of other different things, but they should have taken it back then.
GRACE: Joining me right now Kim Picazio. She is the attorney for Haleigh`s biological mother. She has just hired an attorney.
Kim, thank you for being with us. What can you tell us about an independent search that you plan to organize?
KIM PICAZIO, ATTORNEY FOR MISSING HALEIGH`S MOM: Well, Nancy, we have just rolled up in the small town where Haleigh was raised. I`ve just attended a candlelight vigil for Haleigh for the mother`s camp and I am right now holding a candle in my hand that I received at that candlelight vigil, a candle I`ll keep the rest of my life.
With regard to a custody battle, first and foremost, wanted to say that our priority at this time is the search for Haleigh, is to get her returned home safe and sound. However, it`s come to our attention we may have two emergencies on our hand. Not only do we have Haleigh who is out there somewhere who needs to be found, but we also have an emergency.
We`ve had -- we talked to dozens of people today. We feel that dozens of tips and in our search for Haleigh and talking with witnesses, we received credible evidence that we believe that Junior is definitely at risk, remaining in the home of Mr. Cummings.
And with regard to a custody issue, I don`t even if know if it would be appropriate to have a litigation going on in a family court, the most appropriate scenario would probably be Department of Children and Families is getting involved because I think that it`s reached an unsafe level for this child.
And with regard to our private efforts, again, we just rolled into town. I`ve got several of my people that I brought in. We`re going to be setting up a command center tomorrow. There`s a small town America. Everyone is, you know, giving us tips, treating us well. We`re going to be exploring every single avenue and, again, we`re just talking to witnesses and getting, you know, any type of private information we can from people who may not necessarily be at liberty to go to the police or may not be just comfortable to do so.
GRACE: Well, Kim Picazio, don`t you believe that you`re going to need a lot more evidence than what an estranged non-custodial, biological mother and her family and friends tell you about how much danger the children are in?
PICAZIO: Absolutely, and what we`ve done is we`ve gone to outside sources and the information that we have gotten that we are going deliver to the proper authorities was not information that was gotten from the biological mother, interestingly enough.
It was gotten from people that had been with Ronald in the past, had personally witnessed physical abuse of the children. And we intend to bring the information that we have to the proper authorities so that they can investigate it.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Back to Marlaina Schiavo. Exactly where is the dad, Ronald Cummings, and now his wife, the girlfriend/babysitter, the last person to have seen little Caylee alive -- little Haleigh alive?
SCHIAVO: Right now, Nancy, they are in Satsuma. They just got married. They are with their family. And we`re told that they`ll be heading to New York tonight because they`ll be appearing on a network show tomorrow morning as newlyweds.
GRACE: To Diane in Wisconsin, hi, Diane.
DIANE, CALLER FROM WISCONSIN: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
DIANE: Well, I just want to say, your twins are beautiful.
GRACE: Thank you.
DIANE: And I have two sets of twins.
GRACE: You lucky lady. What`s your question, dear?
DIANE: I was wondering, isn`t it in that state being 17 too young to get married?
GRACE: Apparently in that jurisdiction with the parents` consent, it is not. The mother had withheld consent until age 18 but changed her mind following the disappearance of little Haleigh.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are here to speak directly to the person or persons who knows something, anything about the disappearance of this little girl. It`s not all about the money. It`s all about doing the right thing. Even if it means that you have to be held accountable for your actions, do the right thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us from L.A.. Weigh in, Bethany.
MARSHALL: Well, I think it`s reprehensible that Crystal Sheffield is using this tragedy as an occasion to reopen a custody hearing. She lost those children years ago in a court of law. I also think if those children are endangered, call Child Protective Services. Have them come out and do a welfare check.
And if Junior is in danger, they will remove him from the home. But as I see it, this is sort of an unnatural procedure to go and do your own investigation behind the scenes. And I don`t think it will look good for the mother if they go back to family court.
GRACE: To Deanna in Georgia, hi, Deanna.
DEANNA, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hi, Nancy. Your show is invaluable. Thank you.
GRACE: Thank you for calling. What`s your question, dear?
DEANNA: My question is, has Ronald`s work -- has it been verified he was at work the night Haleigh went missing? And I`d also like to make a comment. I really think it would -- I think it`s inappropriate that he would go and be married at a time like this. I would have not had that on my mind. I would be searching night and day. But that`s my question. Thank you.
GRACE: Thank you, dear. T.J. Hart, got the answer to any of that?
HART: Yes, the answer to that was, yes, it was verified that he was at work by his employer and also by law enforcement following up.
GRACE: And the family is saying this is what little Haleigh wanted. She wanted them to be married. I know the timing is a little off, but so be it.
Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Christopher Bartkiewicz, 25, Dunfermline, Illinois, killed Iraq. Awarded the Purple Heart and Bronze Star. Remembered as a go-to soldier you could always count on. Dreamed of serving the military since growing up in the military bases in North Carolina.
Leaves behind grieving widow, Emily, three daughters.
Christopher Bartkiewicz, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. And a special good night from friends of the show, UGA students, honor students, Dan and Katherine. Aren`t they precious?
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
