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Campbell Brown

Racial Tension in Louisiana Town After Police Shoot Elderly African American Man; Confronting Men About Domestic Violence

Aired March 14, 2009 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi everyone, how about some good news as we enjoy the weekend? It's bullet point number one. Wall Street doing better than it has in months. And Friday, President Barack Obama reassured Americans the government is getting credit flowing and putting us on the road to recovery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right now is very tough, but we're providing help along the way. That's why we put a housing program in place. That's why we're going to be announcing additional steps to help small businesses. But if we are -- if we are keeping focused on all the fundamentally sound aspects of our economy, all the outstanding companies, workers, all the innovation and dynamism in this economy, then we're going to get through this. And I'm very confident about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN: Is the president's sunny tone the big reason the stocks ended up for a fourth straight day?

Bullet point number two, we're going to the Bayou State, Louisiana, where we're live tonight, because racial tensions are boiling after a fatal police shooting of a great-grandfather. Some think his race may have played a role, especially because of what witnesses claim they saw officers do after the 73-year-old man was shot.

And bullet point number three. You've been hearing a lot about the Chris Brown and Rihanna case. He's facing serious charges after she was beaten, bitten and choked. But there's one group I don't think you've heard from yet, and you should. We're sitting down with men. I want to know what men should do when it comes to our own laying hands on a woman.

I want to hear from you so be sure to grab the phone and call in toll free 1-877-No-Bull-0. That's 1-877-662-8550, getting your thoughts on the Chris Brown/Rihanna domestic violence story.

First up, we begin with Wall Street's big week. Normally, we talk to our chief business correspondent Ali Velshi about the markets. We get his face, sad Ali over there. But this week we've been getting the happy face, this particular one. I have a feeling you like that one a bit more.

Ali, it's been a heck of a week for folks when it comes to Wall Street. Should be feeling kind of good.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I don't want to get carried away with it, Roland, but the fact is it's good to be able to report for a whole week good news. Let me piece it together for you, and give you a sense of what's going on in this economy, and why you might feel a little better about it.

First of all, there has been a unified chorus out of Washington. The president, Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Tim Geithner, the Treasury secretary, and the chief economic adviser have all come together and been on Capitol Hill testifying, speaking to the media, all of them talking about how this economy is doing better, and how their plans for the economy are going to help it out of the doldrums that it's in.

Number two, yesterday Tim Geithner and the president were both speaking to the Business Roundtable, a gathering of major business leaders. And there was a real sense of wanting to work with the business community and the business community saying to the president they want to work together. It's a good thing for America if they're not at loggerheads, despite how much damage Wall Street has done to this economy.

Number three, somebody is giving the government money back. General Motors, which has been a net recipient of money from the government, says it won't need the next two billion dollars that it was going to take. Citibank and other banks said that their first few months of this year were profitable.

Three banks have already filed to give back their bailout money to the government. Four more banks have said they're intending to do that. That would be 50 billion dollars going back to the government.

Number four, take a look at this. This is consumers buying more stuff. For the second month in a row, January and February both, we have data that indicates not much of an uptick, but consumers are buying more in the way of clothing and accessories and electronics and appliance and makeup and health care products. Some sense that all is not as bad as it seems.

That's all added up to a nine percent gain this week in the stock market, Roland. One week, nine percent. There are some people who will tell you nine percent in an entire year is a strong gain; albeit, we were very low in this market right now. But the combination of these factors, Roland, has created some optimism, some sense that maybe they're in charge in Washington and maybe things are a little better than we've been feeling they have been for so many months.

MARTIN: Praise god for good news. We certainly appreciate it. Thanks so much. How much of this is all about the way the White House is playing up the new buzz word, confidence? Let's go to CNN's senior political analyst Gloria Borger. Gloria, how are you doing?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I'm doing well.

MARTIN: All right, Gloria, we have a big change in terms of tone from the president this week. So exactly what is behind this strategy of this new sort of tone, sort of the happy president?

BORGER: The happy president, right. They started out, Roland, as you well know, in kind of crisis mode, because the White House felt that it needed to create a sense of urgency in this country, as if we needed to create one. But to give people the sense that they ought to get their stimulus package passed.

Now they've gotten their stimulus package passed. They have a housing plan. They're about to come up with a banking plan. And what the folks in the White House are telling me is we're going to tell the American people the pillars are there. We've paved the way for the economy to get better. We are confident about it. And they need to be confident about it, too. Because if you don't have confidence, things aren't going to get better.

So it's part of a clear strategy to change the tone a little bit, Roland.

MARTIN: Gloria, we appreciate that. Hold tight. We'll check with you later in the show. Gloria and Ali, we sure appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

Also, folks, a reminder, beginning Monday, get five days of unprecedented worldwide reporting on the money meltdown that's changing your life from CNN, the only news network that will take on a story this big. "Road to Rescue," the CNN survival guide, all next week on the networks of CNN.

We've got some serious questions about just what the police did to a 73-year-old Louisiana man. So do a lot of other people, including the Justice Department. The allegations and the reaction up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARTIN: There's anger and sadness and many unresolved questions tonight in a small town in Louisiana. A 73-year-old black man is dead, shot by two white cops. And there are allegations those cops planted a gun near his body. It happened last month in Homer, Louisiana, population 3,800.

Tonight, members of the community are at a town hall meeting demanding answers. Our own Sean Callebs has the story. Sean, exactly what is going on in Homer, Louisiana?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think it's safe to say people in that small town want answers. The racial tensions, I think it's safe to say, could not be more elevated. For those of you who think you know Louisiana, because you know what New Orleans is like, let me explain. The northern part is far different.

The northern part, very Christian conservative. While many blacks in the southern part of the state, New Orleans, Lafayette, have achieved a great deal of political clout and power, many African Americans in the northern part of the state believe they're still fighting for that recognition, and that piece of the pie. And that's certainly playing a part in all of this tension. It's showing no signs of cooling down any time soon.

And, also, this shooting has triggered a massive investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALLEBS (voice-over): This is 73-year-old Bernard Monroe. Three weeks ago, on February 20th, it was later afternoon. He was barbecuing for his family, their kids and his grand kids.

Two white police officers pulled up to the house. They had come to question Monroe's son, Sean. Sean has a long record of arrests and convictions. But he has no outstanding warrants, so it's unclear why police wanted to see him on that day.

Witnesses say when Sean saw the officers, he ran into the house. One of the officers, who had only been on the Homer police force for a few weeks, chased him inside. What happened next is murky at best.

This woman, Denise Nicholson, Sean's sister in law was there. She says 73 year old Bernard Monroe walked toward the house to see what was going on.

DENISE NICHOLSON, FAMILY MEMBER: So he had his hands up like this right here. And so the police officer just turned around and just started shooting. Then, after he shot about seven or eight times, he hollers, he got a gun. Ain't nobody seen no gun yet.

CALLEBS: Monroe had throat cancer and it had destroyed his voice. The police department says Monroe was holding a loaded gun when he was shot. The officer who killed him is currently on paid leave.

Witnesses that day tell a different story. They insists it was a sports drink bottle, and that after the shooting, the other police officer took a gun Monroe kept on his front porch and placed it near the dying man.

"I saw the officer pick up the gun off the porch. I said, what are you doing. The cop told me, shut the hell up. You don't know what you're talking about."

As allegations of a police cover up spread, tensions have only grown worse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only thing we're asking for is justice. And for the truth to be known.

CALLEBS: Three investigations are under way. The FBI, the U.S. Department of Justice, and the Louisiana State Police are all involved. Law enforcement sources tell me there are a huge number of investigators from as far away as New Orleans and Lafayette. They're taking this investigation seriously.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a loss for the whole community. Everybody is lost.

CALLEBS: Sean Callebs, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN: Sean, a lot of things happening down there in terms of investigations. There are a lot of folks investigating this. Tell us about that.

CALLEBS: I talked with Donald Washington, the U.S. attorney for the western district of the state. He said basically officers from the FBI, as well as the Justice Department, state police, have all flocked to that area. What they're doing right now is canvassing witnesses. They want to talk to as many witnesses as they can to get the story as clearly as possible.

Washington also said it's basically a two-pronged investigation. One, they're trying to get all the information. Secondly, it's almost a community relations effort, too. He said he's trying to keep a lid on the rhetoric and all the rumors that have been flying around.

MARTIN: Sean, we surely appreciate it. Thanks a bunch. We'll check back with you for more details.

Right now, I want to bring in "Chicago Tribune" reporter Howard Witt, who has been following this story from the beginning, as well as Denise Nicholson. You saw her in that report. She's a member of Bernard Monroe's family, and a witness to the shooting. And she's at the community meeting in Homer tonight.

I want to start with you, Howard. You've been covering a lot of stories with race the last several years. This particular story is interesting. You talked to a lot of different witnesses. What have they been saying that is unique about this story?

HOWARD WITT, "THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE": Well, Roland, they really tell stories that seem to have the ring of truth. Obviously, the authorities are going to have to sort through all of this. But they all tell stories -- relate accounts of this that have details that you wouldn't expect people would be able to make up.

MARTIN: Such as?

WITT: For instance, one of the witnesses said that he saw the police officer take a latex glove and, instead of putting it on his hand, drape it over his hand in order to pick up this gun with his fingers, and place it next to Mr. Monroe. And he said it was a blue latex glove. When I talked to the local police chief there a few hours later, I told the police chief what this witness had said. The police chief said, oh, yes, what color did he say the glove was? I said the witness said it was blue. The police chief, you could kind of see the blood drain from his face. He said, that's right, we have blue police issue latex gloves.

So there are details like that that have the ring of truth.

MARTIN: You say the police drove by at first. Everything seemed OK. What happened after that? NICHOLSON: Okay. Well, initially we was all sitting out laughing and talking. And I walked up to the truck that Shawn was in, and I had got a text message on my phone. So I told Shawn to look at the text message. So as I was talking to Shawn, I looked up and saw two police cars coming down the road.

We're used to them patrolling through there, so we didn't think nothing was up. The police came down the road. As they was coming down the road, I had asked Shawn to move on down so the police could go on through.

Well, they stopped. And when they stopped, they stopped and talked to my niece, and asked my niece what happened -- the first officer stopped and asked my niece what happened to her leg. So when he asked her what happened to her leg, she told him she had had surgery on her leg. So in the middle of him asking her that, he said -- asked her did she break her leg. She said, no, I just had surgery a month ago. So Mr. Ben --

MARTIN: So the officers were talking to you and the family. Then all of a sudden, when they began to approach the porch, at what point did Mr. Monroe get shot and did you actually witness him being shot?

NICHOLSON: Yes, I saw him get shot. But it was like two or three minutes before that even happened, because after they -- the conversation was about a minute or a minute and a half about her leg. Mr. Ben got up out of his chair. He started flapping his arms. And the officer asked what did he do?

So I turned around and looked at him. And I told them that he was saying that she was chickening around. So after that little part went through, the officer told us, have a nice day. They pulled on down the road.

When they emerged down the road slowly, they came to a stop. So my niece asked, what are they stopping for? And we all said, we don't know. I don't know what they're stopping for.

MARTIN: At that particular point, the cops stopped in front of his home. That's when this altercation came about and then Mr. Monroe was shot. They also claimed he had a gun. Howard, what about that issue in terms of they say he kept a loaded gun on the porch.

WITT: Family members said that this elderly man was an avid hunter, and he actually kept a loaded hand gun on his porch all the time, and for protection. It's kind of a rough neighborhood where he lives. I asked the family when they told me that -- I said, gosh, that seems kind of strange. You had a family party, children running around in the yard. Isn't that dangerous to keep a loaded gun on the porch. They said, well, it was his practice and his routine and all the children were trained and learned not to go near that gun.

But that's the gun that's in question, because all the witnesses say that he did not -- he wasn't holding that gun; he wasn't anywhere near that gun. But the police would have been able to see that gun sitting on the porch. And that's the gun that the witnesses are alleging that the police then picked up after Mr. Monroe was shot and placed next to his body.

MARTIN: Howard, hold tight. We'll come back to you, because we're going to talk to the mayor of the city when we come back. Denise, I know you have to get back to the meeting. We appreciate you participating. Thank you so very much.

Folks, we've got much more on this particular story, as we talk to people at the town meeting in Homer, including the mayor, as I said. Also tonight, we're taking your calls on domestic violence and the role men play. Here's the number, 1-877-No-Bull-0. That's 1-877- 662-8550.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARTIN: Folks, you're looking at a live picture from Homer, Louisiana, where tensions are running high after an elderly black man was shot to death by white police officers last month. Members of the community are gathering tonight. In a moment, we'll talk to the mayor, David Newell, who has been inside tonight's town meeting in Homer.

With us again, Howard Witt, national correspondent for the "Chicago Tribune." Howard, this victim, Bernard Monroe, he had throat cancer. He was unable to talk. And so did that somehow have an effect on what took place?

WITT: It could have contributed perhaps to some of the confusion, because he wouldn't have been able to call out or say anything. He would have just been walking up toward the front door. What's interesting, too, you have to understand this whole incident occurred against the backdrop of real mistrust in that town between the police and the black community. I think that raised a lot of mutual misunderstandings and confusion on both side.

MARTIN: I want to bring in mayor David Newell right now. Mayor, you just heard Howard Witt say -- talk about this mistrust in the community. Obviously, people upset, especially African-Americans. How have you been dealing with this? Is it real, that mistrust that is there between African-Americans in Homer and the police?

DAVID NEWELL, MAYOR OF HOMER, LOUISIANA: I hate to say that it's real. I think there's mistrust between citizens in general and the police department. I think we have to do a better job of communication.

MARTIN: Mayor, have you talked to the officers involved? What did they say took place?

NEWELL: I have not talked to the officers involved personally. And it is under an investigation, and I would not want to discuss the facts of the case.

MARTIN: Mayor, I do want to get your response to something. Here's what Police Chief Russell Mills told Howard Witt. He said, quote, "if I see three or four young black men walking down the street, I have to stop them and check their names. I want them to be afraid every time they see the police that they might get arrested. We're not out there trying to abuse and harass people. We're trying to protect the law-abiding citizens locked behind their doors in fear."

Now, I understand the role as a police officer to serve and protect, but he's essentially saying that I see somebody, I don't have necessarily a reason to stop them. So is he racially profiling them? What is your response to that comment from your police chief?

NEWELL: I think that was a very poor choice of words. I think he was pretty much talking about the neighborhood that he would be driving in. I think it was a poor choice of words. I think he should not have said that.

MARTIN: He may have said it, but if that's his true feelings, doesn't that point to this whole mistrust that Howard alluded to?

NEWELL: I think you'd have to talk to the chief on exactly what he was saying. If the chief said that he is racially profiling, absolutely, that would create mistrust. I don't think that's what he was intending to say.

MARTIN: Howard, we spoke a few moments ago with CNN Sean Callebs and he talked about the multiple investigations. There are all kind of things that are going on. What is the difference between the various investigations, state, FBI?

WITT: The state police will be looking primarily at the criminal case, whether or not there are criminal charges that should be filed against the police. The FBI is looking primarily at a civil rights angle, whether there's a federal civil rights action that ought to be initiated here. That's also what the interest of the Justice Department is, as well as the branch of the Justice Department that's there tonight running that meeting is interested in community reconciliation. They're trying to bring black folks and white folks together to try to talk about these deep, underlying issues.

MARTIN: Mayor, what about that? Have you seen white citizens in your town and African-Americans speaking more about these differences that are going on? Or is this largely a black concern with what took place with Mr. Monroe?

NEWELL: No, I think it's a great concern of everybody in the community. It's a tragedy. I'm saddened. I personally know the family. I know many of the citizens in the community. It's a tragedy for us all.

MARTIN: Well, it is certainly a tragedy and hearkens back to the case in Atlanta, where several officers there shot and killed an elderly African-American woman. And many of those cops actually went to jail. We'll certainly see what happens in this case. Mayor David Newell, we certainly appreciate it. Howard Witt with the "Chicago Tribune," we appreciate all your fine reporting on this story. Talk to you again. Michael Steele, how was your week? Our political panel looks at the Republican party chairman's future. Is he good or bad for the Grand Old Party?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARTIN: It's safe to say Michael Steele has gotten off to a rough start. Those aren't my words. That's what the Senate Leader Republican Mitch McConnell had to say, just today about the man running his party, the GOP. And it's been another tough week for Mr. Steele.

In a magazine interview he was quoted as saying abortion is an individual choice and he opposes a Constitutional amendment against same-sex marriage. Let's bring back senior political analyst Gloria Borger, as well as welcome senior political contributor and Republican strategist Leslie Sanchez.

I'll start with you, Gloria, what's the real big deal here? Isn't the real issue you have a moderate who is frankly leading the party, and they're not welcome in the GOP at this very moment?

BORGER: Well, I think the big deal for the Republican party is that right now they were looking for someone to unite the party after this election. And what they have found in Michael Steele is somebody who keeps putting his foot in his mouth, and divides the party, and ends up having to clarify his remarks, whether it's taking on Rush Limbaugh or whether it's talking about abortion. And that's not where the Republican party needs to be right now.

MARTIN: Leslie, how do you then, though, expand the party? Here you have a guy who is saying that I want to have a big tent. I want to open it up. But when he makes comments, the folks who are the strong voice in the party, they shut him right down. So folks on the outside are saying, I don't know if I really want to go here.

LESLIE SANCHEZ, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: You know, that's a fair point, Roland. But I think of two things. One is the fact that Steele overcame significant obstacles to become the chairman of the party. At a time we're not in the White House, the party tends to vote for their own, meaning somebody who is a party chairman.

He came from the outside, it took six ballots and he won. But people had a vote of confidence there. And, yes, there are some stumbles. But the biggest way to quell critics is to win elections. He has significant ones -- governor races in Virginia and New Jersey. You have a special election in New York. I think if he does well there, it will hearken back to what we saw in 1997, when you had Jim Nicholson, the new chairman, many obstacles, a lot of debt, but he won elections. That makes the difference.

MARTIN: Gloria, go ahead.

BORGER: You know, Roland, in the end, party chairmen are judged by the number of elections they win, by the amount of money that they raise. And so you'll have to wait a couple of quarters here to see not only how much money comes into the Republican National Committee, but also how they're spending that money.

Now Republicans I talked to today are saying it's in disarray --

MARTIN: But can he last a couple of quarters? That's the real issue.

BORGER: Well, you know, they're not going to get rid of him. It takes two-thirds of a vote of the members of the RNC. And that's just not going to happen. They may have some buyer's remorse right now. But he's there.

SANCHEZ: It's interesting, Roland, he does have to focus like a laser beam in talking about why this is still a center right country, why we're in a position to win, get that support on the ground, raise that money from the base. Those are some key issues that he's going to have to attest to right away. That's going to determine his success beyond 2009.

MARTIN: So, basically, both of you think he will keep his job for the meantime?

BORGER: I think he does. I think he keeps his job. I think he's got to raise an awful lot of money. I've talked to a bunch of Republicans today, some of whom are having a hard time getting Mr. Steele on the telephone, one of whom was told it would take two weeks for the chairman to get back to him. This is somebody who raises money for the Republican party. That's not a good sign.

MARTIN: The bad thing, of course, he's not going to be able to talk to us, because he'll probably keep his mouth shut from now on. Dang, it was going so good! It was going so good there! He gave great quotes. Gloria, I certainly appreciate it. Leslie, thank you so much. I'll chat with you guys another day.

Folks, they fought to keep our country safe, but I want you to see for yourself why so many of our veterans need help getting back to work here at home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARTIN: Our economy might be in the tank, but even some of the hardest-hit Americans say you can still live the American dream. Tonight we're taking another look at the ripple effect of job losses right here in the Big Apple, New York City. Campbell Brown tells us about a veteran who has given so much and is now trying to keep his spirits up.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Safe to say no one expected any of this to happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've lived the American dream. I'm a Vietnam veteran. I went to school at night for 14 years to get both of my degrees, while I worked during the day and raised a family and sent my kids to college. Now that I'm getting near retirement, within five years or so, it's very difficult to find a job. My 401(k) is now a 200.5(k).

BROWN: There's so much talk about what's happened to the American dream these days. Perhaps there should be more talk about the American spirit. Paul Wax is 61 and lost his job.

PAUL WAX, UNEMPLOYED: Keeping a positive attitude, I think it's something that everybody should take. I know that's not going to put bread on the table, but at least it's not going to make things worse.

BROWN: We met Paul on a cold morning here on Broadway, waiting with so many others to get into a job fair for veterans. Though optimistic things will get better for him, he's angry about those who put us into the mess.

WAX: There's a lot of people like CEOs that should be on this line, not us. There should be a lot of presidents of companies that should be on the line and not us.

BROWN: In some respects, Paul sees where we are today as almost inevitable, which is why in November he voted to change it.

WAX: I do have hope. I did vote for Obama, because it's time for a big change. The system as it was and as it is up to now has not worked and it's time to make the system change.

BROWN: After the job fair, Paul set up an afternoon of networking.

WAX: Good, good. All right, that's good. See you in ten minutes. OK, man. I'll see you soon.

BROWN: Someone who might know someone who knows about a job. He told us he sent out two or three resumes a day for the last three months. Severance from his old job just ran out, so of course he's cutting back.

WAX: I used to go to the cleaners almost every week, but now that the economy has taken me to the cleaners, I've been basically more or less ironing my own stuff, washing my own stuff. The beautiful thing is I have a wife and I love her.

BROWN: At home in suburban New Jersey, Paul and his wife have a plan to get through this together. She's gone back to work part-time. Paul has two grown daughters. His youngest has a wedding coming up, and Paul wishes he could do more.

WAX: My youngest daughter is getting married in June. There's expenses for the wedding. There's expenses for the engagement party. I would like to be the good father, to help her out as much as I possibly can, deep down inside of my heart, but I know it's not possible in this situation.

BROWN: Like so many people now in his position, Paul worries there is an unspoken prejudice against job searchers in their 60s, and that potential jobs might go to younger applicants. And yet there is something about Paul Wax and that American spirit. WAX: We're still here. I'm not a philosopher. I'm not one of the ancient Greeks. But I do believe that there's a need to be positive about things and to have hope and to never give up.

BROWN: Campbell Brown, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN: And for expert advice on how you can get and keep a job, check out CNN.com. Find out who's hiring in your area and see the hot spot for jobs across the country. That's CNN.com/Jobs.

Tonight, we're following the Rihanna/Chris Brown case and asking one simple question: why would any man even consider beating up a woman? We want to hear what you think. So give us a call at 1-877- 662-8550.

Timothy in the Tar Heel state, North Carolina, is standing by with a very personal story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARTIN: All week long, we've heard experts, talk show hosts and others, tell singer Rihanna that it's a bad move to get back with her boyfriend, Chris Brown, who allegedly beat her on the night before the Grammys. One thing I have noticed is we haven't spent a lot of time focusing on the male aspect of domestic violence.

Tonight, we change that. We purposely assembled an all-male panel to confront the role men play in domestic violence. Before we get to that, I want you to listen to Chris Brown on "The Tyra Banks Show" in 2007, long before the incident with Rihanna, when he talked about violence in his own home growing up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS BROWN, SINGER: I know some people in their family go through it, domestic violence and stuff like that. I'm saying I had -- I don't want to mention the person's name, but somebody that hurt my mom, you know what I'm saying, and me having to deal with that from the age of like seven all the way to 13, me seeing that and being visually abused by it.

TYRA BANKS, "THE TYRA BANKS SHOW": How did it affect you?

BROWN: It affected me, basically, especially toward women, I treat them differently, because I know I don't want to go through the same thing or put a woman through the same thing that that person put my mom through.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MARTIN: Joining me now, community organizer, anti-violence activist and author Kevin Powell. His latest book, "The Black Male Handbook," is now out in paper book. Ted Bunch is the co-founder of A Call to Men, the National Association of Men and Women Committed to Ending Violence Against Women. And Nando Pelusi, a behavioral psychologist and author of the Neander-Think Column for "Psychology Today."

Kevin, I want to start with you. You have your own personal story with domestic violence. Talk about that in terms of what you actually experienced.

KEVIN POWELL, AUTHOR, "THE BLACK MALE HANDBOOK": Well, it happened between 1987 and 1991. So I'll make it clear it hasn't happened since and will never happen again. But I was one of those young men was socialized in an environment around violence, thinking that violence was a solution for all conflict. As a result, when I became a very young man, I engaged in that kind of behavior towards female.

MARTIN: That kind of behavior?

POWELL: Violence.

MARTIN: Physical abuse?

POWELL: Absolutely. The last time it happened was pushing a girlfriend into a bathroom door in 1991. Luckily, I was around a community of very progressive people, activists, who said, one, you have to get help, which is why the counseling came in. That's very critical. A lot of folks will say men will do it again and again. If they don't get help, if they don't get counseling, if they don't own that issue of internalized sexism and think it's OK to hit women, they won't change. That was very critical for me.

The other part was beginning to listen to the concerns and voices of women and girls, and then coming, at a certain point, an ally to women and girls, which is the work I do now.

MARTIN: What about that, in terms of him saying that I had to recognize what I was doing was wrong, but having to get that counseling.

DR. NANDO PELUSI, PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly. Kevin shows that he recognized it was a problem. He had the resources and the willingness to work on it. Men can work on it, but don't forget that some of it is socialization, but some is the male masculine mind trying to commandeer women. It's been something that men have done throughout history.

We try to learn how to control ourselves. And in this case, you found a way to do it. But a lot of it is what men tell themselves. For example, if men say, I have to control her, I need her to respect me, what happens is his ego gets in the way. He puts himself down and the woman is suddenly given the power to put him down. What happens is he thinks, the only thing left for me to do is commandeer this and it escalates more and more.

MARTIN: In a moment I'm going to go to a phone call from Chicago. I want to go to Ted. What about that? You focus on the sexism men must confront. Talk a bit about that.

TED BUNCH, CO-FOUNDER, "A CALL TO MEN": Yes, thank you. Well, domestic violence is the manifestation of sexism. It's a gender-based crime, right, gender-based violence. So when we look at men's violence against women, it's interesting that when a man is angry or stressed out or upset, he knows who he can hit and who he can't hit. In other words, the violence is selective and exclusive.

So when he's upset at work or when he's upset with the police or when he's upset in any other situation, he has conflict resolution skills. But, see, he doesn't even use those because our socialization, how we're taught to be men, our definition of manhood says that women have less value than men.

MARTIN: But he also knows he's going to pay a price if he hits a cop.

BUNCH: Exactly. And there is no price because we don't value women. Because, we don't value women; we're taught women are property and we're taught that women are objects. So we don't need to look at it so much as an individual ill, but a social ill needing a social response. And it's men as a collective that are the problem. This man is just operating out of how he's been taught.

We taught Chris Brown very well how to disrespect women.

MARTIN: I want to go to Tracy from Chicago, on the phone lines. Tracy, what's your comment?

CALLER: Hi, Roland, how are you doing?

MARTIN: Great.

CALLER: I just want to say I'm really glad that you're talking about this, because over the last few weeks, this whole Chris and Rihanna thing has really blown up. And I really haven't heard men step up and speak up, and say this shouldn't happen, this is wrong. A lot of the celebrity guys are retracting their words. I don't know if they're scared of the repercussions.

But I want to hear men stand up and say this is wrong.

And as far as Chris and Rihanna, I personally think that they both have issues that they need to work out. And being together right now doesn't really seem like the answer. So I would ask why do you think that a lot of men aren't stepping up and saying this is wrong? Can you tell me that?

MARTIN: Tracy, we appreciate that. Kevin, you want to respond?

POWELL: A couple of things. The doctor made a great point, which it's not just the particular -- we live in a society that there's this thing called policing of male behavior. From the time we're boys -- I can speak from my own experience, growing up playing sports. The names we're called as boys, as you said off camera, throw the football, that kind of thing -- unfortunately, a lot of men are afraid to step out of those boundaries, because they're afraid of being perceived as not a man.

When you talk about the situation with Chris Brown, it's not just about Chris Brown. What I say to men all the time, even if you aren't the kind of man who would ever strike a woman, or ever do anything disrespectful to women, but you have people around you who do those kinds of things, you say nothing about it, you become just as guilty. You've got to have the courage to step out yourself.

MARTIN: It's not just physical. You also deal with the whole verbal aspect as well. Hold tight. Panel, you'll stay with us. We're coming back. One way to break the cycle of abuse, the domestic tool kit from the National Advisory Council on Violence Against Women. Check it out at ToolKit.NCJRS.org.

We're still taking your phone calls. The number is 1-877-No- Bull-0. That's 1-877-662-8550.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARTIN: Back with community activist Kevin Powell, Ted Bunch from A Call To Men and a psychologist Nando Pelusi, taking your questions on violence against women and breaking the cycle of abuse. The number to call, of course, is 1-877-662-8550.

Ted, you believe men need to check each other when they see that kind behavior, the verbal abuse, because we know what it leads to.

BUNCH: Yes, thank you. Men as collective are the problem, that our silence, as Kevin spoke about -- that the overwhelming majority, overwhelming majority of violence against women is men's violence against it. But the majority of the men are not violent, but we're silent that the violence that those men who are violent perpetrate. That silence is also our way of giving permission for them to be abusive.

So we have to speak out, whether it's not just about a man hitting a woman; it's about the sexist comment at the water cooler. It's about the looking at the woman's body as she goes by. It's all of those that desensitize us to the humanity of women. It's really a man's issue. If anyone needs to take responsibility for this, it's men.

MARTIN: Doctor Pelusi, how do we then focus on this treatment? Frankly, can a man be treated when it comes to domestic violence?

PELUSI: The answer is definitely yes, he can work on himself. But there are a couple of things to look at, including the picture of the relationship. Women sometimes get deathly afraid. They can't imagine leaving somebody. They also sometimes tell themselves, he really loves me. I need him and he really loves me. This is just a bad behavior. I'm going to try to work it out. I think that's sort of a trap that women need to be careful that they're saying, well, he does beat me up periodically and it's very shameful to tell me -- and that's why they may not. Community is very important.

MARTIN: I've been watching Oprah and Tyra Banks and so many others saying, why is Rihanna going back. But I have not been hearing men say, Chris, why are you back in the relationship? You need to use this time to work on you.

POWELL: A couple things Chris needs to do. One is own the issue. That's very important, take ownership. Number two, counseling is tremendously important. The mistake he's making, they're both making is thinking they can do this together, work it out. Clearly there's self esteem issues both sides. If she's going through battered women's center, it's very obviously happening on the public stage.

On his, if I can just let people know it's OK, she's back with me, I'll be all right; that's not going to change anything. You have to get out of this and get help. It's very critical.

MARTIN: One of the things I saw, in terms of looking at when the charges were filed, she reads this text message on his phone. She reacts, begins to hit him. He respond. The point there is not justification -- but the point there is both parties cannot be in a violent relationship. You can't have men and women hitting each other.

PELUSI: There's a line you don't cross. Even good relationships have arguments. Good relationships, men yell and stuff like that. But they find a way to work it out. But when violence happens, that's a line that's crossed and that's very serious.

MARTIN: We certainly appreciate this. I hope more folks have this conversation, because it cannot be only women talking about domestic violence. If we don't address men, then we'll continue to have the same problem. Kevin, Ted, Nando, we appreciate it. Thank you so very much. Folks, thank you to the viewers who called in. If we didn't take your phone call, sorry about that. We're listening to the voice mails you're leaving us.

There's a website you can go to that has a tool kit to help you steer clear of domestic violence. It's Toolkit.NCJRS.org. Please go to that website.

In a moment, we'll hear from Michelle Obama in her first television interview since she entered the White House.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARTIN: Big changes coming to the Supreme Court? That's our top political daily briefing. Randi Kaye is back with the scoop.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Did you miss me?

MARTIN: Of course.

KAYE: Good to be back with the scoop. We wanted to tell you about this first, Roland. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg made the comments this morning, suggesting there might be an impending retirement by one of the justices. Ginsburg said, quote, "we haven't had any of those for some time but surely we will soon."

The soon-to-be 76-year-old, who recently underwent pancreatic surgery, didn't give any indication as to who might be leaving, but speculation surrounds Ginsburg herself or either 88 year old John Paul Stevens or 69-year-old David Souter.

MARTIN: Shifting gears now to an announcement from Vice President Joe Biden today that a whole lot of stimulus money is going to be given to a company Biden has a close relationship with.

KAYE: That's correct. It's no secret the vice president is a huge fan of the commuter railroad Amtrak. As senator, he took the train daily between his home of Delaware and Washington, D.C. Today, Biden announced Amtrak will receive over one billion of stimulus money. And he came to the defense of the often criticized government- owned company.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So I want to be very blunt. I'm tired of apologizing for help for Amtrak. It is an absolute national treasure and necessity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Biden says the money will not only go toward infrastructure upgrades and expansion, but will also put thousands of people to work. So some good news.

MARTIN: First Lady Michelle Obama, what's up? She's weighing in on this bare arms story.

KAYE: Finally. Everybody has been talking about how to get Michelle Obama's arms. Oh, the first lady received lots of attention for those arms, as you know. She recently displayed them not only in "People" and "Vogue Magazine," but also her official White House photograph, that you can see there as well. Some have criticized her for not being formal enough. Others want to know how to get those toned biceps.

Today, the first lady joked about it in an interview on ABC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: I get up early and I work out. That tends to be my relaxation. It happens in the morning, my morning workout.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We see the workout's doing very well for you. OBAMA: Well, I covered my arms up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN: Now, the first lady also admitted that she sometimes just enjoys veging out at night in front of the TV. Roland, actually, we went to a trainer and we asked her how to get Michelle Obama's arms. And she showed me a few exercises. Do you know there's two parts to your bicep?

MARTIN: No.

KAYE: Yes, if you go like this and that, you can get those arms. I'll show you after.

MARTIN: I have no problems lifting a couple of weights. It's all good. Thank you so very much for it. You and I worked together in Texas. I got to give a shout out, my high school, the Lions playing for the state class 4A championship tomorrow. So good luck tomorrow. Bring the championship home. More importantly, I want you to bring the championship home in the classroom after the basketball season is over.

KAYE: There you go, good advice.

MARTIN: Thank you so very much. Folks, please have a great, great weekend. And don't forget, we focused on this whole issue of domestic violence. We cannot confront the issue of domestic violence unless we deal with it when it comes to men.

Beginning on Monday, get five days of reporting on the money meltdown that's changing your life from CNN, the only news network that does this.

Coming up next, Larry King.