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Nancy Grace
Police Documents Reveal Casey Anthony Thefts, Lies
Aired March 20, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthonys` home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell. Inside the tot mom murder investigation, literally hundreds of secret police files just released. What do we learn? E- mails, text messages, crime scene reports, evidence forms, cell phone records and scores of interviews. We learn friends say tot mom high on pot, changing her story over and over and over as to who Caylee`s biological father was, and stealing, stealing thousands, not just stealing from friends but from close blood relatives, including a grandfather in a nursing home. Why? To support her free-loading party girl lifestyle.
And torpedo to the defense, official court phone records confirming no calls -- no calls -- to or from the so-called nanny who tot mom says kidnapped Caylee in broad daylight in a public park. The files confirm grandmother Cindy distressed, confiding to co-workers about the dead body smell in tot mom`s car. But instead of calling police, she gives tot mom, quote, "a chance to explain."
Tonight: What was the Anthonys` private eye`s explanation to police why he was caught on video digging in that wooded area long before Caylee`s remains discovered in the same spot? Was he tipped off? And if so, by whom? But even though these documents rip the lid off the tot mom`s house of cards, she`s not worried, ordering up even more beauty products, expensive bottled water, roasted chicken, Mexican food, chocolates, all to enjoy in her private jail cell.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDFATHER: She`s taken from my wife`s purse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, you started...
(CROSSTALK)
GEORGE ANTHONY: Twenty dollars, forty dollars, maybe more than that, at a time.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She stole from her grandmother`s assisted living fund.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDMOTHER: I want to bring her in. I want to press charges.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An intense fight right before Casey left with Caylee in mid-June was over money that Casey had stolen from her own grandparents, from an account dedicated to paying for assisted living expenses. Tensions had been building over the theft.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY: I believe that there`s something dead back there. I smell it, and I`m, like, Oh, my God. I think I whispered out to myself, Please don`t let this be Caylee.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Casey called Hoover and asked him to come to town and meet at Mr. Casey`s office. That`s when Hoover says Mr. Casey told him Caylee was dead and that Mr. Casey knew where the remains were.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know who the father of Caylee...
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: I do not know...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Certify.
LEE ANTHONY: ... with 100 percent...
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: If they have nothing positive to say, need to shut up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Satsuma, Florida. A 5-year-old girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone, vanished into thin air, the back door propped wide open. Dad comes home from the night shift to find not a single trace of little Haleigh.
As the search goes on for 5-year-old Haleigh, police question suspected child sex predator living near Haleigh`s home. Is he connected to the disappearance? Why are we just learning about him? All the while, the custody battle brewing over Haleigh`s 4-year-old little brother. Both sides lawyer up as photos emerge of the children with cuts, bruises on face, arms, legs. Tonight, we have the photos. But do they prove the mom`s allegations of abuse? And if so, what does it mean in the search for Haleigh? Tonight, where is 5-year-old Florida girl Haleigh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators here at the Putnam County sheriff`s office have been hard at work trying to find that one piece of information that will bring home little Haleigh.
GRACE: Bombshell. A custody battle brewing over Haleigh`s 4-year- old little brother, Haleigh`s mother hiring a lawyer and now her own private investigator.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now they say they will also be investigating the allegations of child abuse and neglect that are coming from Haleigh`s mother`s attorney against Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings.
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`s FATHER: I`ve been slandered into a sorry father. I took good care of my kids the three years I had them by myself. It`s not a custody battle, it`s about finding my 5-year-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: DCF runs their investigation. We`ll run a parallel investigation with (INAUDIBLE)
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: I don`t feel safe with him there. I mean, my daughter`s missing. He has a 17-year-old that he is married to now. She`s a child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s never safe to say that someone in the family or an associate of the family is not a suspect. All the world`s a suspect right now.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
RONALD CUMMINGS: Hello?
911 OPERATOR: OK, sir, let me talk to your wife. Let me get some information from her.
RONALD CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK. Can I talk to her?
RONALD CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: OK.
RONALD CUMMINGS: How the (DELETED) can you let my daughter get stole, (DELETED)?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MISTY CUMMINGS, STEPMOTHER: I go out to the kitchen. The back door was open. So I run back to my bedroom to get my cell phone to call Ronald, and I notice -- that`s when I notice Haleigh was gone. I was scared. I didn`t know what to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) sexual offenders are -- they`re trying to self-report to us, exonerate themselves from the process as far as being suspects.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want whoever`s got her to bring her home. That`s all I want is my baby home!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. In the last hours, inside the tot mom murder investigation, literally hundreds of secret police files just released. What do we learn?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said, I`ve stolen money from you. You know, I`ve been untrustworthy.
911 OPERATOR: What did the person do that you need arrested?
CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter.
911 OPERATOR: For what?
CINDY ANTHONY: For stealing an auto and stealing money.
GEORGE ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) deposit slips that she had -- she had forged the deposit slip for $4,400.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With her mother`s name on it?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, with our account.
CINDY ANTHONY: I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Once you smell that smell, you just -- you never get over it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Florida state attorney`s office has turned over more evidence to her defense team.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Anthonys` private investigator talking on his cell phone at the crime scene...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He says, Well, Dominic called meet on the 15th, told me Caylee had been found. Hoover told me that he asked him, Is she alive? He said, No, she`s dead, but we`re going to go get her right now.
CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl! I need to find her!
CINDY ANTHONY: She has been a victim just as much as Caylee has.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m just as much of a victim as the rest of you, and it hasn`t been portrayed that way and it probably won`t be. But I know that and at least there are other people that know that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150, joining us there from the Orlando jailhouse. Mark, tell me about the new documents. What did we learn?
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, this morning, hundreds of documents were released, Nancy, by the state prosecutor`s office. Bombshell interviews with family and friends shows that Casey Anthony lies. She steals. She takes drugs. And she even snatches checks out of the pocketbook of her sweet old grandmother.
And her grandmother, Shirley Plechet (ph), is telling investigators that if she ever got ahold of Casey and if Casey was tormenting her mother like she had, Shirley Plechet said that she would be strangling Casey and the investigators would have been talking to her instead of Casey. Also, one of the last times that she saw Casey, she says, You know, darling, I love you, but I don`t like you.
GRACE: We`re finding out so much about the inner workings of the Anthony home, the relationships, the dynamics between all of them. But what will it mean in the murder one trial of the tot mom?
Out to Natisha Lance, our producer, standing by there at the jailhouse. Just yesterday, tot mom celebrating her 23rd birthday. I have with me here a money order, a copy of a money order. George Anthony broke down. He`s a softy, sending his daughter a hundred bucks behind bars. And she`s living it up behind bars. Apparently, all of this stunning -- the stunning documents we`re getting, Natisha Lance, no effect on her appetite, ordering up beauty products, Mexican food, roasted chicken, expensive bottled water.
Tell me, where are these documents coming from? They just keep on coming.
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, they`re being released to us, Nancy, from the state prosecutor`s office. They`ve been turned over to Jose Baez prior to being release to the public. And one other thing that Casey Anthony`s grandmother points out is that she said she wondered if Casey hated her mother, Cindy Anthony, more than she loved Caylee Anthony. So more and more information coming out, just as you said, about the inner workings of this family and what Casey Anthony was really all about.
GRACE: I want to go to Jessica D`Onofrio, reporting there from Orlando with WKMG. Jessica, you know, there`s so much to go through. Literally, I`ve got a stack this big right here on the table of documents inside the homicide investigation. But I`m fascinated with the relationship that she has -- and we learn so much about her personality through the grandmother. I mean, my relationship with my grandmother, Lucy, who my child Lucy`s named after, was so close. What do we learn? The police go interview the grandmother, and what does she say?
JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, WKMG: Well, I mean, she basically says that she knows Casey Anthony is a liar and she knows that she has been stealing from her for quite some time. She stole from her twice, according to Casey Anthony`s grandmother. And she`s disheartened by it. And you know, we`ve been talking about those quotes earlier in the show. She actually -- her last words to Casey Anthony were, you know, I love you, but I don`t like you. Those were her last parting words to her.
GRACE: Jessica, it`s my understanding that there were multiple occasions when the tot mom would actually steal from her grandmother, and one time, or at least once, from a fund set up for the grandfather in the rest home. But how did it happen that she stole the checks from the grandmother? Was the grandmother there at the Anthony home? How did that happen?
D`ONOFRIO: That`s correct, Nancy. She was sleeping over at the Anthony home. And at that point, Casey Anthony was able to go in her grandmother`s purse, steal a physical check, and then write it for $54 through a grocery store, using that money to buy decorations and a birthday cake for Caylee`s 2nd birthday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY: She opened up to me and said, Mom has thrown it in my face many times before that I`m an unfit mother, and you know, maybe she`s right. Maybe I am. She`s, like, Well, maybe this should have been done a long time ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re worried that if we find that out that people are going to look at you the wrong way?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
JESSE GRUND, CASEY`S FORMER FIANCE: Casey was a totally different person when we were together. The person that I was with and the person that sits in that jail, I don`t know her.
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey has been a very wonderful, caring mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They will always stand by their daughter. This is their only daughter and their only granddaughter, and their only daughter is charged with first-degree murder of their only granddaughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back to Jessica D`Onofio with WKMG, standing by in Orlando. So Jessica, you were telling me about the theft from the grandmother that we`re just learning about. One time is when the grandmother spends the night in the Anthony home. And then she finds out checks are missing?
D`ONOFRIO: That`s right. She goes to the police department, and they actually find on the back of the check Casey Anthony`s ID. She`s shocked to see that it was her granddaughter who did this. And she told her granddaughter, she said, If you would have just asked me for the money, I would have given it to you. And then she tells her, Don`t do it again. Well, of course, we find out in this new discovery that she does do it again. She actually writes a check to AT&T for about $350 and she does it all over again. And her grandmother is just absolutely infuriated by it.
GRACE: Bottom line, Mark Williams, did the grandmother press charges?
WILLIAMS: The grandmother never did press charges, Nancy. She just kind of let it go by the wayside because, as you know, blood is thicker than water sometimes.
GRACE: It`s my understanding she didn`t want to hurt Caylee or grandmother Cindy by actually charging the tot mom.
Out to our shrink. I think we need to bring in an expert. To Brad -- Dr. Brad Johns, psychiatrist, joining us out of Atlanta. The grandmother actually states the words, I wondered if she hated her mother more than she loved Caylee. Now, have you ever, Dr. Johns, heard of hatred being a reason to kill a love object, that she hated Cindy Anthony, her own mother, so much that she took what Cindy loved the most, little Caylee?
DR. BRAD JOHNS, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, yes, Nancy. Yes. The level of psychopathology here is really -- profound is a bit of an understatement, to say the least. The suffering in the way the members of the family both inside themselves and between each other is -- verges on inability to test reality.
GRACE: I want to unleash the lawyers. Joining me now, returning to our airwaves after his triumphant battle against leukemia, Richard Herman. I actually like your hair better now, friend.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: And of course, veteran defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction Raymond Giudice.
Richard, I know you`ve both had a chance to comb through these documents. The stack is about four inches thick. Bottom line, will the jury ever find out about it?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, this is not a case about larceny with the grandmother. This is...
GRACE: Is that what I asked you? No.
HERMAN: No. It`s a...
GRACE: Will the jury find out about it?
HERMAN: ... first-degree murder case here. Those documents are not coming in. There`s no probative value. There`s no relevance. They have a first-degree murder case they have to prove, and these documents are not going do it.
GRACE: Ray Giudice, I can think of one way they might come in.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I -- mostly -- they won`t come in in a state`s case in chief. They come in for cross. That little clip from Jesse Grund -- I don`t know her. Every time this defense tries to put up a family member to speak well of Casey, they`re going to stick that witness with all of these prior transactions of theft, deception and lying, with the ultimate conclusion, You don`t really know her and you don`t know what she`s capable of, do you.
GRACE: Because, Raymond, Richard -- first to you, Ray Giudice. Very often, when you`ve got a defendant that doesn`t have a conviction, the defense...
HERMAN: That`s right.
GRACE: ... will make the mistake of putting in good reputation.
HERMAN: That`s right.
GRACE: Look, everybody says she`s a great mother, she would never do something like this. And then -- then under the law, that is referred to as opening the door. They`ve opened the door with good character by saying she`s a good mom, to let in the truth about her bad character. And I could just see Jose Baez doing that. Ray Giudice, how would it happen?
GIUDICE: Well, you put up someone to say she`s a good mother, she was faithful, she`s loyal. And then they`re going to get hit with, You didn`t know about this, you didn`t know about the theft, you didn`t know she smoked dope, you didn`t know she was out partying three days after the baby disappeared. And they`re going to destroy them as, quote/unquote, character witnesses, good character witnesses.
GRACE: We also learn that the plot of land where little Caylee was discarded like trash is up for sale. One potential buyer, bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. Leonard, thank you for being with us.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: You`re welcome.
GRACE: We remember your help in the exhaustive search for little Caylee. Why are you interested in buying the land, Leonard?
PADILLA: Well, actually, Sarah Shelton (ph), the young lady that did all the research for us on the case back there when we were back there, came up with the idea of buying the land some time back. And I had actually talked to Nejame at the time about doing it. And then it surfaced again when we found out that the property was actually for sale.
And she wants to put together a committee, put a memorial, put a park out there, something like that. She`s just getting started on it. In fact, she`s got one of these computer things going on this Sunday to get discussions going on it. But that`s what she wants to do, and then eventually, donate it to the county.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I just want her back.
CINDY ANTHONY: I know you do. You have to keep thinking positive. Positive feelings, Casey.
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, I know. I have been. I`ve been staying as positive as I can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The remains found in the woods are the remains of Caylee Marie Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our number one priority from day one was to locate little Caylee Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cause of death will be listed as homicide by undetermined means.
CASEY ANTHONY: No one has once said say anything for me at least that I love my daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Just released, hundreds of police documents inside the investigation of tot mom`s murder one case.
Out to Marc Klaas. Marc, I`ve been combing through these documents. What does it mean to you, what we have learned? A lot of it relates to the house of cards that tot mom had built up for years, pretending all this time for years that she had a job, stealing from people to support her lifestyle. What does it mean to you?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I`ll tell you the thing that really strikes me about all of this is that -- well, first all, I`d like to say hello to Richard. It`s really nice to see that he`s back in the saddle again.
But the grandmother seems to be able to step back and she seems to be the one individual who is able to take a sort of a detached appraisal of everything that`s been going in this family and is able to sort of sort out the various dysfunctions that exist. And it`s almost like she had premonitions that something bad was coming down because she continually, you know, would see Casey block (ph) her mother, steal from her, go after the grandfather`s account, and is able -- I think she`s a great character witness. She`s probability the best character witness of the bunch.
But quickly, if I could just say about this plot of land that Leonard is considering purchasing? There was a plot of land, Nancy, where they found my daughter. And I`ve been to that plot of land a couple of times. And I loathe it. I loathe the idea of it. I loathe of visiting it. I loathe the thought that somebody would try to turn it into some kind of a memorial.
There have been attempts do that in our situation over the years, and it seems to ultimately attract the very odd kind of person that feels that they somehow have ownership of the whole deal. I would like to see this hideous piece of property forgotten and allowed to go back into nature, the same kind of nature it was in prior to the horrible discovery.
GRACE: You know, Marc, it`s so odd that you said that. Do you know, after the murder of my fiance, I`ve never been able to bring myself to go to that spot where he was murdered? I don`t think I even want to see it. I don`t want to have it in my head. But Leonard Padilla`s intention is honorable.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We forgive anything that you have said.
CASEY ANTHONY, ACCUSED OF MURDER: I haven`t said anything, don`t worry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing?
ANTHONY: I look like hell.
My only concern is that Caylee comes back to us and that she`s smiling and that she`s happy and that she`s -- and that she`s OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And did Caylee ever stay at Tony`s.
ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you sure?
ANTHONY: Positive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How about Jesse? He`s been real close. Is there anything you`d like to say about Jesse?
ANTHONY: I would like Jesse to stay as far away from you guys as possible. In my gut, I don`t know if I can trust him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you call prior to today?
ANTHONY: I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle it myself which obviously I couldn`t. And I was scared that something would happen to her.
I love that little girl. I miss her so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Hundreds of police documents inside the tot mom murder investigation just released. In the last hours, not only do we learn about the tot mom`s house of cards, the lie that she had been living for years, but substantive evidentiary records. Out to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Mike, what about the phone records we just learned about?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER FBI AGENT: Nancy, I was going through these this afternoon and there`s an agent, William Moore with the Metropolitan Bureau of Investigation which is a task force there in Orange County, in Osceola County. He put together an unbelievable analysis, link analysis, of dates and times and a map of dealing with cell phones. You know we`ve heard in cases before, Nancy, persons of interest, but in this case he`s calling telephone numbers of interest and text messages of interest. He just kind of breaks it all down. He`s even brought in engineers from AT&T to talk about signal strength. To talk about tower configuration. This is an unbelievable analysis.
And two things also we found out about with this, Nancy. There was never any call received or called to to a Zenaida Gonzalez. And he, Agent Moore, believes that there was a text message sent possibly preemptively talking about a -- part of a dead animal on the frame of Casey`s car, which we know also that was a lie.
GRACE: Mike Brooks, I want to clarify what you just said. You are referring to a text message from tot mom Casey Anthony to someone else claiming that she had run over a dead animal to try to explain a way the smell in her car.
BROOKS: That`s exactly what I mean, Nancy. Which Agent Moore says, he called it a quote, a "preemptive" text message.
GRACE: To explain ahead of time. And before somebody asks, what is that?
BROOKS: Right.
GRACE: And also, you just brought up something, Mike Brooks.
BROOKS: Yeah.
GRACE: About this agent doing al of this analysis on the cell phone records. Why would he want on do a tower strength, a cell phone tower strength analysis? What is that mean to the trial?
BROOKS: That means, it basically trying to track her location from -- all the way from June to July in that area in question. Where we know that the baby was missing before there was any police report was made. And what they`re also doing, they`re going through cell records of her friends and associates.
To see if their statements to law enforcement match up with their activity. And we know that Tony Lazarro, everything that he told law enforcement matches up to all of his cell records during that time and also before that time.
Back to the lawyers. Richard Herman, New York. Raymond Giudice, Atlanta. Richard Herman, how do you fight the cell phone records? Because the tot mom, she -- she hedged herself in. She painted herself into a corner when she gave statements to police, and others, that Zanny the Nanny had called her on her cell phone and let her speak to Caylee. But they`ve got all of the phone records. She also lied about having a second blackjack-type cell phone which has never been produced.
So how do you get out of that hole, Herman, when you`re at trial.
HERMAN: Well, here`s a bombshell for you. Not everyone has a cell phone registered in their own name, Nancy. So that`s how I get out of that, very easy.
GRACE: Put Herman`s face back up, please. OK, Richard, explain.
HERMAN: Not everyone has a cell phone .
GRACE: Yeah, I heard you. Saying it over and over doesn`t make it any more clear. What do you mean by that?
HERMAN: That Zenaida Gonzalez`s cell phone was not registered to Zenaida Gonzalez. Very simple.
GRACE: Richard, what about the fact that no phone calls came in during the time she said Zenaida Gonzalez called and let her speak to Caylee. No calls, whatsoever. Not from a registered phone, not from an unregistered phone. The few calls that came in they can identify the caller. OK, back on you, friend.
HERMAN: I`m going to go with that, Nancy. I will tell you .
GRACE: You`re going to go with what, it doesn`t make any sense.
HERMAN: How do they know everyone who called her?
GRACE: It`s called cell phone records.
HERMAN: They tape recorded every incoming phone call to her? I don`t think so.
GRACE: OK, I`ll rephrase. Ray Giudice, both of you -- you know, you -- Herman, I know what you`re doing. You`re just chasing like a dog, round and round the tree. Thinking I`ll get tired. And stop chasing back.
HERMAN: No, no.
GRACE: But, Ray, what the deal is, they don`t have to tape the phone calls. They can look at the cell phone incoming calls to tot mom Casey Anthony. And they have identified everybody that called in. And it`s not Zenaida Gonzalez. The call didn`t happen. These cell phone records prove it never happened.
GIUDICE: I got news for anyone who has never tried a case on the defense side. You`re trying to win the war, not these individual battles. I will tell you that the defense might be smart to leave these things alone. You can`t win them. You can`t explain them away. I`ve said it on every show I`m on. This case is about the science. Either the prosecution`s got that airtight scenes or they don`t and as defense counsel that`s what I would focus us on. Not heighten all of these small, little battles, I don`t think that they`re relevant.
GRACE: I appreciate that Ray. And if I were in the defense camp, I`d say the same thing. But Marc Klaas, you`ve lived through so many trials, including the murder trial of the man that took the life of your little girl, Polly. It`s not all about the science. Because the science is on one side of the table. On the other side, they`ve got the tot mom lie after lie after lie, not looking for her little girl. Out partying in her push-up bra the day after she goes missing. Lying about a phone call from her where she speaks to the little girl and there`s this elaborate story about how they`re talking about a book that Zanny is reading to her.
I mean, elaborate, elaborate, complicated lies about the whereabouts of this child. That counts for something. I don`t care what Giudice and Herman want to tell the viewers, that`s not true. All of this circumstantial evidence counts for something.
KLAAS: Well, more than counts for something. I mean, it was mentioned a little bit earlier about the psychopathy about this woman shows. Her inability to be able to relate to the feelings of people. Her -- no consideration for the feelings of anybody. No ability to understand, to have compassion, to be able to connect on a human level. It seals like with anybody. No long-term connections, long-term friends that she has. People drift in and out of her life. She pretends and plays, as if she`s like everybody else, when she apparently has no conscience. And that`s huge.
GRACE: And to Dr. Keri Peterson. Doctor of internal medicine at Lenox Hill in New York. Dr. Peterson, we`re also hearing these documents in scenario in how Cindy, George, and tot mom Casey Anthony refused to admit that she`s pregnant and went to a family function. Everybody said, when`s the baby due and they all said, well, she`s not pregnant. She was obviously showing. How long can you hide it?
DR. KERI PETERSON, LENOX HILL HOSPITAL: On a petite frame like Casey`s not, very long. Really after 16 weeks. Somewhere between four, five months she`s going to be showing and it`s going to be tough to mask with a blouse that`s draped over her. So I`d say about in four months.
GRACE: And back to you, Marc Klaas. The fact that they hid the pregnancy and that Cindy Anthony and George Anthony refused to acknowledge that their daughter was obviously pregnant. That`s highly unusual and of course the jury will never hear about that.
KLAAS: Yeah, but their denial is going to carry them into some huge issues as this thing goes into trial. So on the one hand, they finally understand and realize that the little girl is dead, but on the other hand, they somehow believed that their daughter`s not involved in it. They`re at odds with the kind of justice they`re seeking here.
GRACE: Everybody, as we go to break, a very special happy birthday to friend of the show, Peggy Moore. Loves bike riding, spending time with five grandchildren. She never misses our show. Happy birthday, Peggy.
And happy birthday to Georgia friend of the show, Mary Michael. AKA, superstar. Turning 12 years old. Happy birthday, Mary Michael.
And everybody, at your request, photo of the twins. Now, we`re deciding to bone up on the Easter egg hunting. So we`ll be ready come Easter Sunday. So here we are out in the front yard. Lucy decided to sit down and make cell calls in the middle of our impromptu Easter egg hunt. John David fascinated with the eggs himself. They`re not really into the hunting part yet.
Yeah, Lucy took all of the eggs away from John David`s basket.
I am going to post these on the Web tonight. I hope you like them.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has never abused his children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Teresa Neves, Haleigh`s paternal grandmother says Cummings welcomes the investigation.
GRACE: A school report written by apparently rejected (ph) schools, professionals who state that Haleigh Cummings cut nose at playground. Apparently falling off the monkey bars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On November 6th the school nurse says that she fell down on the playground and had a scratch to the nose. Six days later the child is in the emergency room now with black eyes. A laceration to the nose and a scrape on the cheek.
UNIDENTIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not the first time. Not the first time. And I don`t think it`s going to turn out the way they want to. They must want custody pretty good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to our producer Marlena Schiavo joining us from Florida on the investigation. Marlea, why am I just hearing about Daniel Snodgrass, who is charged with being a child sex predator on a nine-year-old child? Now, is this the same -- no, it couldn`t possibly be the same sex predator we heard about before that had the ankle monitor because you get one of those when you`re convicted. This is somebody new? And how close do they live to Haleigh?
MARLENA SCHIAVO, CNN HN PRODUCER: This is somebody new. And this is somebody who stopped by the Haleigh bug center (ph), Nancy. last week, and in and was turned away when he tried make a donation. A man who was charged for sexual battery on a minor in 2007. He has an ankle monitoring bracelet. The police have already investigated him. They say he wasn`t anywhere near Haleigh but keeping an eye on him.
GRACE: Now hold on. Daniel Snodgrass, is only a child predator suspect, correct?
SCHIAVO: You`ve got it. He is awaiting trial, Nancy. And he`s out on bond right now.
GRACE: Now, tell me, how close did you say he lives to Haleigh?
SCHIAVO: He lives -- actually, Nancy, the police haven`t told us where he lives. Hymn assuming that`s for privacy reasons but he lives in the Satsuma area, we`re told.
GRACE: OK. Now, tell me how he came to light, Marlena. What can you tell me about him?
SCHIAVO: Well he stopped by the Haleigh bug center. And he tried to make a donation .
GRACE: OK.
SCHIAVO: People in the area -- it`s a small community. So they knew who he was and they turned him away.
GRACE: Liz, let`s see the map of known sex offenders there in the Satsuma area. To T.J. Hart, WSKY, 97.3 fm. These are the known sex predators and then there are a host of others that are suspects in child sex cases. What can you tell me, T.J.?
T.J. HART, WSKY RADIO: We have about 44 sexual predators that are on record and probably a good dozen that are perhaps in little hot water so far as awaiting trial in that area. And believe me, it`s something that law enforcement is well aware of and they`ve taken a lot of precautions, I`ve been told, just to keep an eye on certain areas, where certain people live. Even though they`re, you know, technically not a sex offender.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. He is a victim`s right advocate after the kidnap and murder of her little girl, Polly. Marc, a lot to do has been made, recently over the last 48, of allegations of child abuse brought by the biological mother against the father. Regarding the little boy still in the home. You know, people say, it never happens that an intruder comes in the home and spirits your child away. Well, you know what, you for one can say, it does happen. And now we learn about all of these sex offenders in the area.
KLAAS: Well, it not only happened to me but it happened to Elizabeth Smart in an upper-middle-class family. Polly, in a middle-class family and then little Jessica Lunsford in a middle-class family.
GRACE: Danielle Van Damme.
KLAAS: Sure, yeah. And it goes on and on. There are no boundaries for this kind of thing. There are sexual offenders in every neighborhood in America. There are over 650,000 of these individuals. And fortunately we now live in a time where we`re able to access information on who these characters are very easily by logging onto the various internet Web sites. We certainly give that ability at our Klaas Kids Web site and if fact we`re the first ones that did. And now so far as these allegations against Ron Cummings, I`ve said this the last couple of days. This is so terribly unfair and unfortunate and it`s such a character assassination on this guy.
We have to remember, this man lost his daughter. He`s obviously distraught over that. Now he`s been accused of having molested his kids. -- I`m sorry, not molested, but abused his kids. And beat his wives and girlfriends. And now they`re trying to take his little boy away from him. Exactly how much is one guy supposed to stand?
GRACE: Everybody`s saying, why did he get lawyers? You`ve got two lawyers. Would you blame whim these allegations. Unleash the lawyers. Richard Herman, Ray Giudice. To you, Richard Herman, first in a nutshell, bottom line is until this guy, Daniel Snodgrass, is convicted, we don`t have any supervision over him. He can go anywhere he wants to.
HERMAN: He can go anywhere. Hopefully they`re tailing him. Hopefully they`re doing an investigation on this guy. We have to keep our eye eon the ball, Nancy. We have to find this child.
GRACE: And Ray Giudice, no way to supervise people until they are convicted.
GIUDICE: Wait a second, Nancy. I thought that this man has an ankle bracelet on. That means it`s either GPS and he can be monitored within a foot or phone line land line connection. He can be supervised.
GRACE: We`ll al be right back. But right now CNN Heroes.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Heroes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no money to eat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s hard to find a job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I live on the street.
JORGE MUNOZ, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: : When you`re hungry, you`re hungry, that`s. Four years ago, I`d seen those guys standing out, they`re desperate. They need to eat. My name is Jorge Munoz. And every night I bring food to the hungry in Queens, New York. I`m born in Colombia. But I`m a citizen right now.
I`m a school bus driver. When I come back at 4:15, my second job starts. Prepare the meals, pack them up. It`s like the family project seven days a week. I go to the same corners every night around 9:30. They`re waiting for me. The economy is real bad right now. Day by day their number increases. Two months ago it was 100. Now jumped to 140.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So he`s awesome. They call him the Angel of Queens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s through him that many of us are fed.
MUNOZ: In the beginning, it was just Hispanics. But now I see different nationalities. I`ll help everyone who needs to eat. Just line up.
The best part is when you see this man, I want them to eat every night. It`s easy. Compared with them, I`m rich.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Tell us about your hero at cnn.com/heroes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the story, and more important, the people who touched our lives.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was a better parent. Still am. A better provider.
GRACE: In four years, you did not observe any physical abuse on the children?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, ma`am. Because when we were together, he had nothing to do with the children. I took care of them. I did everything.
GRACE: Lee Anthony, tot mom`s own brother, was actually tested for paternity?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy, rumors have been flying on the Internet and everywhere else wondering could Lee Anthony be Caylee`s father? They certainly did run those tests and it came back a negative.
GRACE: I`m very disturbed, allegations last night of physical abuse by the father on little Haleigh were grounded in to my understanding these horrible photos.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoever took her to the hospital on the 12th. Six days later from the small scratch on the nose incident, stated that the injury occurred while she was playing on the playground three days ago. So there are inconsistent versions of the event.
GRACE: Obviously, you`re saying that this laceration was caused by the father. It came from a fall from the monkey bars, according to this school report. Is it some big conspiracy that a school teacher is in on it, too?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Geoffrey Johnson, 28, Lubbock, Texas, killed Iraq. A graduate of South Plains College School of Nursing. Earned the Bronze Star, Army Commendation Medal, National Defense Service Medal, loved games, reading with his children, water skiing, leaves behind grieving parents Jim and Jennifer, widow Amy, four children. Geoffrey Johnson, American hero. Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us.
And special good night to the New York control room. Good night Liz, Brett. Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
