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Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony Questioned in Court
Aired March 25, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthonys` home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. Tot mom in full ankle shackles from the jailhouse to the courthouse to answer questions under oath, the judge grilling her and her lawyers about allegations the two are raking in money hand over fist off Caylee`s murder. Over a quarter million dollars alleged so far and counting.
Tot mom undergoes another extreme makeover, hair back and sporting a modest lavender sweater, subdued great slacks. Well, that`s a far cry from stunning photos emerging of Anthony out again without her little girl and out of control, partying in skimpy lingerie, deep soul kissing other women, dancing the night away. It`s all on camera. This as one Anthony private eye goes under oath just hours ago, the same PI at the spot where Caylee`s remains found but weeks before police discovered them. And it`s all on video.
This as the state brings down the hammer, adding over 100 witnesses to tot mom`s murder one trial, including a parade of lovers, FBI agents, co- workers of grandmother Cindy, toxicologists, Target employees, AT&T employees, even the Secret Service. As temper threaten to boil over in open court today, tot mom`s counting the money piling up in her jailhouse account sent from lovelorn guys all across the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Thank you. Tell me your name, please.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Casey Marie Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, Ms. Anthony, I have a sworn affidavit filed by you apparently on or about March 10th of `09. Do you recall the affidavit that you filed?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. You can remain seated. The -- in this affidavit, paragraph three, you indicate you signed and executed a retainer agreement for my attorney`s services, correct?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And -- again, that`s true, right?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in paragraph -- oh, by the way, there was only one retainer agreement that you signed with Mr. Baez?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And then in paragraph number four, you say, "The retainer agreement does not contain any clauses or parts that allow or entitle him to any rights that would allow him to sell my story or that of my daughter, Caylee Marie Anthony." Is that true?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Also in paragraph number four, the "him" that you refer to, is that Mr. Baez?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, it is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And finally, in paragraph number five, you say, "There are no other agreements selling my story." And that`s true?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does any literary rights fee agreement exist between you and Mr. Baez?
CASEY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And the other items in your sworn affidavit are true?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Thank you.
CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on!
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down, baby.
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a beautiful Hollywood wife in a heated argument with her husband then vanishes, not reported missing until days later, and then not by her husband but by her TV actress sister. Even though his wife missing during their planned Valentine vacation, he goes anyway to, quote, "look for her." In Mexico? Listen, her car, wallet and keys all there at the house. How`s she supposed to get to Mexico? Tonight, where is Lesley Herring?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After a lengthy interview with detectives, joined by her son, Leila Telford (ph) stopped to plead for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want them to find my daughter and to bring her home safely to us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lesley Herring missing under suspicious circumstances.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re trying to find out where she is, the places that we think she would be. That`s what I was told.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have anything to do with your wife`s disappearance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lie detector test -- did you volunteer to take one with the cops, that sort of thing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have not addressed that to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But Lyle (ph) Herring did not notify police his wife was missing. Her sister, Isha (ph), did after learning Lesley Herring had not been at work. Then the lead LAPD detective on the case described the husband`s cooperation in less than flattering terms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would describe his cooperation as fragmented and less than helpful. Not someone I would expect for a grieving husband.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tot mom brought in full ankle shackles from the jailhouse to the courthouse to answer questions under oath.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me your name, please.
CASEY ANTHONY: Casey Marie Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The murder defendant accused of killing her daughter, Caylee Marie Anthony, was back in court because prosecutors wanted to know how she`s paying for her so-called dream team.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You say, "There are no other agreements selling my story." And that`s true?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does any literary rights fee agreement exist between you and Mr. Baez?
CASEY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m convinced that no conflict exists.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m trying to defend this case. I`m worried about this case. They need to be worried about their conviction moreso than their post-conviction. I see every day evidence that points to my client`s innocence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Frankly, I don`t see the need (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) last statement clearly has absolutely nothing to do with this motion. (INAUDIBLE) in this case where defense counsel used the podium as an exhibit (ph) to make comments to the press (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Kathi Belich with WFTV, in court today. Kathi, what happened?
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, there were a couple of different incidents between the defense and the prosecution. It usually was sparked by a comment that Jose Baez would make in court about the case that the prosecutor didn`t think was appropriate. At one point, he even accused prosecutors indirectly of leaking things to the media. So he asked the judge to tell prosecutors to keep what they discussed behind closed doors private. That angered the prosecutor because that`s a no-brainer, I guess, in his mind, and felt that they were questioning the prosecutor`s ethics.
The judge got fed up in the end. There was a little bit of taunting going on even between Baez, eventually smirking at the prosecutor after realizing he got upset over the comment and...
GRACE: You know what? Baez better stop the smirking.
Let`s unleash the lawyers. We`re taking your calls live. Tot mom brought from the jailhouse to the courthouse today, full ankle shackles. She had an extreme makeover, looking like a soccer mom in court today.
Kirby Clements, defense attorney out of Atlanta, former prosecutor, Alex Sanchez, veteran trial lawyer out of New York. You know, Kirby, the smirking that the defense is doing, aimed at the state -- you know what? He`s got a tiger by the tail. He can`t hold on and he can`t let go. He may smirk all he wants to in front of the judge, but that doesn`t go over well in front of a jury. Not at all.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that may be true, but you know, this is also a mind game. He`s got to get in the prosecutor`s head, and he`s doing a pretty good job of it right now.
GRACE: You`re kidding me.
CLEMENTS: No, I`m very serious.
GRACE: Liz, instant playback! Baez is not in anybody`s head, all right?
WILLIAMS: The prosecutor looked like a mad hen today.
GRACE: He`s making mistakes left and right. Baez is not in anybody`s head, Kirby Clements. Alex Sanchez, weigh in.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, you`re saying it doesn`t look good for the jury. But as far as I know, there is no jury at the present time.
GRACE: That`s what I just said, Sanchez.
SANCHEZ: And when the time...
GRACE: I said he`s in front of a judge today...
SANCHEZ: Right.
GRACE: ... but it won`t work in front of a jury.
SANCHEZ: Right. But when the time comes, I`m sure Mr. Baez will be very well aware of his demeanor in the courtroom.
GRACE: Well, if he`s listening tonight, he will be.
We are taking your calls live. Out to Steve Helling, writer with "People" magazine, on the story from the very beginning. Steve Helling, you were in court today. What did you observe?
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Well, what I saw was George and Cindy Anthony arrived at court. They smiled at Casey. Casey smiled back. And then, you know, there were some fireworks going on, prosecution, defense kind of going at each other. And finally, the judge just said, You know what? I`m tired of this. This isn`t going to happen. And it`s not going to happen in this courtroom. He`s not going to let it happen.
GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx -- well, you know what? It had already happened. That`s a day late and a dollar short. Drew Petrimoulx, WDBO -- Drew, this is what I don`t understand. It seems to me everybody is like an ostrich. They`ve got their head in the sand and their butts in the air. We already have been told that nearly -- excuse me, over a quarter million dollars have been made off Caylee`s murder. Now, that money had to go somewhere, all right? So if it didn`t go to tot mom, where did it go? And is it being funneled to the defense? Did anybody think -- ding, ding! -- to ask that in court today?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, the prosecution wanted them to define what "story" means. While they said that she might not be selling her future story, do pictures and licensing count? That answer wasn`t -- that question wasn`t answered in court. They did go...
GRACE: I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear you, Drew. I couldn`t hear you. That question what?
PETRIMOULX: What I was going to say is they went behind closed doors. They talked for about seven minutes. The judge came out and he said that he was satisfied that there was no conflict of interest. And whether that question was answered behind closed doors, we won`t know, and it seems like we`re not going to find out what they talked about behind that closed door.
GRACE: Out to Andy Kahan, director of the crime victims` assistance division there in Houston, Texas, a champion for victims` rights. Liz, let`s see how much money on that full screen we believe they`ve made so far. Andy, we already know over a quarter million dollars paid, allegedly, by networks for interviews about this story.
ANDY KAHAN, DIR. OF HOUSTON MAYOR`S CRIME VICTIMS` OFFICE: Yes, Nancy. I mean, she`s a ready-made stimulus package for Baez and the other miscreants that are looking at her like a big cash cow. And I think you`re delusional to think what might not be sold as a story today doesn`t preclude it from happening in the future. There`s going to be some big, big money deals coming out of this.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Everyone, tot mom in court today. There you see her dressed in a demure lavender top, gray slacks, a far cry from photos that emerged just hours before she was to appear in court, partying in lingerie.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Marie Anthony walked out of the Orange County sheriff`s office with her head held high. Detectives say she has showed little emotion for her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw Casey break down. I saw Casey cry.
CASEY ANTHONY: Every day, I`ve been beating myself up about this. Every single day...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
CASEY ANTHONY: ... not knowing where to go, what to do, running in circles, literally because it`s all I can do at this point.
WILLIAMS: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No more lies. No more (INAUDIBLE) out of your mouth. No more lies. What happened to Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She admitted to lying throughout her interrogation. In the whole time detectives writing their report, Casey didn`t show any obvious emotion as to the loss of a child. She did not cry or give any indication she was legitimately worried.
CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter may have some mistruths out here or half truths, but she`s not a murderer.
There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Thank you. Tell me your name, please.
CASEY ANTHONY: Casey Marie Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Anthony, I have a sworn affidavit filed by you apparently on or about March 10th of `09. Do you recall the affidavit that you filed?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. You can remain seated. The -- in this affidavit, paragraph three, you indicate you signed and executed a retainer agreement for my attorney`s services, correct?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And -- again, that`s true, right?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in paragraph -- oh, by the way, there was only one retainer agreement that you signed with Mr. Baez?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And then in paragraph number four, you say, "The retainer agreement does not contain any clauses or parts that allow or entitle him to any rights that would allow him to sell my story or that of my daughter, Caylee Marie Anthony." Is that true?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Also, in paragraph number four, the "him" that you refer to, is that Mr. Baez?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Finally, in paragraph number five, you say, "There are no other agreements selling my story." And that`s true?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Does any literary rights fee agreement exist between you and Mr. Baez?
CASEY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And the other items in your sworn affidavit are true?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tot mom out of the jailhouse, into the courthouse today. There you see her in full ankle shackles, under oath, answering questions fired at her by the judge. It`s all about questions, questions arising whether tot mom and her lawyer are raking in money, money off Caylee`s murder. We know of an alleged $250,000-plus already paid over during this case, and the trial hasn`t even started. We haven`t even struck a jury.
A blow-up there at the end of the day in the courtroom. Drew Petrimoulx, WDBO, apparently, the defense attorney, Jose Baez, makes some comment suggesting that the state is leaking private information, and the state got mad and fired back. I don`t blame them, Petrimoulx. What exactly happened, in a nutshell?
PETRIMOULX: Jose Baez said that he didn`t want any information that they talked about in that seven-minute session that they had -- that private session about who`s paying for Casey`s defense. He made a comment, he said, Judge, I just want you to make sure that none of that information gets out to the public. The judge says, You know, that shouldn`t be something that I have to say. But the prosecution took offense to him saying that. He says, We know our ethical responsibilities. There`s no reason that we should need to be reminded of that.
One thing I will add, though. I will say that there have been leaks in this case. Whether they have came from the state attorney`s office or not, we don`t know that, but there have been a good amount of leaks...
GRACE: OK, you know...
PETRIMOULX: ... before information comes out in discovery.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Mike, you`ve been on the case from the beginning. Let me ask you a few quick questions. Number one, who`s been appearing on the "Today" show and other morning network shows, the defense or the prosecution? Who?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Defense.
GRACE: All right. Who has gotten $250,000 that we know of so far for interviews and licensing fees for family photos, the state or the defense?
BROOKS: Defense.
GRACE: OK. And last but not least, who, state or defense, has already had bar complaints surrounding this case?
BROOKS: A number of members of the defense.
GRACE: OK. You know, they got a nerve.
BROOKS: Yes, no kidding.
GRACE: But all of that is a sideshow. It`s a sideshow to what`s really going on in court.
Back to Kathi Belich, WFTV. So when it got down to the nitty-gritty about who`s already raked in a quarter million dollars, they all trotted back to the judge`s chambers, so we don`t have the answer, right?
BELICH: That`s right, and we might never get the answer. But the judge came out satisfied, at the very least, that Casey Anthony knows where the money is coming from. The prosecutors made the statement that she can`t be negotiating, she`s in jail, it`s got to be the defense.
GRACE: OK.
BELICH: So they wanted to make sure that she knew where the money was coming from and that she was OK with that.
GRACE: To Kirby Clements. Can`t this whole scenario be re-routed by payments going to the grandparents and not to tot mom?
CLEMENTS: Well, I would imagine that it could. But you know, let`s go back to something. Why is everybody jumping on the defense for doing their job?
GRACE: That`s not their job.
CLEMENTS: They`re doing their job and everyone...
GRACE: The job to be...
CLEMENTS: ... and they`re accusing them of improper conduct.
GRACE: ... a smart-alec in court is not their job.
CLEMENTS: But you were accusing them of improper conduct, of having a conflict of interest, and the prosecutor...
GRACE: I didn`t accuse them!
CLEMENTS: The prosecutor did. And then he gets mad when the defense says, Stop doing leaks. All I`m saying is the money can come in. That`s perfectly fine. There`s no crime being committed at all.
GRACE: Mr. Clements...
CLEMENTS: Point to me a law, Nancy.
GRACE: Mr. Clements, I know that you have tried a lot of cases on both sides of the fence.
CLEMENTS: True.
GRACE: But when formal complaints are made to the bar association of Florida that this guy is getting money off the selling of her story and her rights, that could affect trial strategy. When the prosecution finds out about it, it is their ethical duty to bring it up to the judge. Now, can I see Kirby Clements`s face? Do you disagree with that scenario?
CLEMENTS: I agree to some degree, but I have to tell you, these bar complaints were made by people who are unhappy with the defense.
GRACE: You don`t know who made it. You don`t know who made it.
CLEMENTS: Do you know who made it?
GRACE: No, I don`t.
CLEMENTS: Well, that`s my point. It`s people who are out there...
GRACE: So it has to be...
CLEMENTS: ... trying to tamper with the defense...
GRACE: ... investigated by the judge.
CLEMENTS: No, this is about the prosecution trying to come between the defendant and her lawyer.
GRACE: OK. You know what?
CLEMENTS: That`s what it`s all about.
GRACE: You said you agreed with the scenario, but yet you`re still whining. You`re whining because...
CLEMENTS: Whining?
GRACE: ... you don`t like the truth. You don`t like the fact that the state had to do this.
CLEMENTS: They didn`t.
GRACE: On the other end of the story today -- I`m going to come back to you, Kirby.
CLEMENTS: All right.
GRACE: We`re not done yet. On the other end of the spectrum today, the Anthonys` private eye under oath. To John Morgan, attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez -- he deposed the private eye today -- what did you learn?
JOHN MORGAN, ATTORNEY FOR ZENAIDA GONZALEZ: I think the main thing that we learned today -- there was a lot of ancillary things that we learned, but I think the main thing we learned today was that the whole time that this guy was out there at the house and with their private eye, that nobody from the Anthony family, not George, not Cindy, not Lee, ever, spoke or mentioned Zenaida Gonzalez. No one was looking for Zenaida Gonzalez. They`ve spent all of this money...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: This little girl is our entire life. I do not believe that my daughter did any harm to her child. My daughter has been nothing but a loving mother, and I have seen that for the last three years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George has, but Cindy won`t. Cindy will never, ever come about and say, My daughter was the cause of my granddaughter`s death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines. Lucy in New York. Hi, Lucy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I watch your show nightly. I love it.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question and a quick comment, please.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If there are no deals in place for money, how are her bills being paid for her defense?
GRACE: You know, that`s my question. Let`s go to Leonard Padilla, who was in the home for hours on hours, days on end. Is anybody beside Lee Anthony in the Anthony family working? And if not, how are the bills getting paid if they`re not making money off this?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, there`s a situation where they did sell that album of pictures. I don`t know who the check was written to, but they did sell a full album of pictures, upwards of --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: 911, what`s your emergency?
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I found out my granddaughter has been taken, she has been missing for a month.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: I know my mom will never forgive me. I`m never going to forgive myself. Because there`s that chance that I might not see Caylee again. And I don`t want to think about that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An Orange County water meter reader went into the wooded are just off the road to go to the bathroom and stumbled upon a child`s remains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your gut feeling up until this point is something`s not right?
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Well, actually it`s June 16th. That`s what the last time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 16th. 16th. Sorry.
G. ANTHONY: That`s the last time that I saw my daughter and granddaughter.
CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong, I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the car.
CASEY ANTHONY: I got arrested on a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) whim today because they`re blaming me for stuff that I never would do. That I didn`t do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did have somebody calls to tell us that a shovel was borrowed on the day in close proximity to the child being missing.
CASEY ANTHONY: I love her dearly and I want nothing more than for her to come home and feel safe.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: We feel our client`s innocent. I know that`s a hard thing for everyone to believe here, but she is innocent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, so help me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, thank you. Tell me your name, please?
CASEY ANTHONY: Casey Marie Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, Miss Anthony, I have a sworn affidavit filed by you, apparently, on or about March 10th of `09. Do you recall the affidavit that you filed? OK, you can remain seated. The -- in this affidavit, paragraph three you indicated you signed and executed a retainer agreement for my attorney`s services, correct?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And -- again, that`s true, right?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in paragraph -- by the way, there was only one retainer agreement that you signed with Mr. Baez?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And then in paragraph number four, you say the retainer agreement does not contain any clauses or parts that allow or entitle him to any rights that would allow him to sell my story or that of my daughter Caylee Marie Anthony. Is that true?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Also in paragraph number four, the "him" that you refer to, is that Mr. Baez?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And finally in paragraph number five, you say there are no other agreements selling my story? And that`s true?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does any literary rights fee agreement exist between you and Mr. Baez? All right, and the other items in your sworn affidavit are true? All right. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: The way to circumvent this, back to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, expected to testify in a civil suit, is for all the money to be funneled to the family, not to her, right?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, EXPECTED TO TESTIFY IN CASEY ANTHONY CIVIL SUIT: Well, let`s face it. When our company came off the bond, the other two companies went on there. They said that it was a secret donor that had contributed the money, but that money came from the sale of those pictures and those albums.
So, you know, there`s various ways that those media companies have paid for those pictures and things. They`re called licensing fees. They`re not called appearance fees, they`re licensing fees. But a certain amount of that goes to.
GRACE: Well, that`s putting perfume on a pig, Leonard Padilla.
PADILLA: Yes, that`s -- that`s correct.
GRACE: I want to find out also, back to Steve Helling, with "People" magazine. They brought up the sworn affidavit that she wrote March 10. I`ve got it in my hand.
Did anybody ask her about her hand-written statement that the state, prosecutors are angry at her because she refuses to take their plea deal? Did anybody ask, is there a plea deal on the table? Or even an informal discussion of a plea deal? Did anybody bother to bring that up?
STEVE HELLING, STAFF WRITER, PEOPLE MAGAZINE, IN COURT TODAY: No, Nancy. That wasn`t brought up at all. Nobody said anything about it.
GRACE: OK.
HELLING: And it just didn`t happen.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Donna in Arkansas. Hi, Donna.
DONNA, CALLER FROM ARKANSAS: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, love. What`s your question?
DONNA: Well, first of all, you have the most beautiful babies in the world.
GRACE: Man, I got lucky. A lightning struck twice. I don`t believe it.
DONNA: I`m just curious, you know, the day that she says that she was at Jay Blanchard Park and the apartments that Caylee was allegedly taken, are there phone records of that on her cell phone records?
GRACE: Phone records of what? Of what on her phone records?
DONNA: Of her making calls to Zenaida Gonzalez or looking for Caylee. She said she made calls that day when.
GRACE: You`re right. You`re absolutely right, Donna in Arkansas.
Mike Brooks, we`ve gone over and over and over the phone records. Were there any calls to Zenaida Gonzalez?
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: No, Nancy, in fact, in the documents just released last week, they did more from the Metropolitan Bureau of Investigation there, the task force who did the whole analysis said that there was no call that was received by her, no outgoing calls, and no text messages to a Zenaida Gonzalez, period.
GRACE: Today, one of the Anthony family private I`s under oath answering questions. Remember, two of them show up at the spot for Caylee`s remains where found weeks before police find the remains.
Back to renowned attorney, John Morgan, he`s the attorney for the real Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. One of the private I`s show up today, the other was a no-show. And you`re telling me that throughout this whole thing, nobody mentions during this time, this critical time period, nobody mentions Zenaida Gonzalez?
JOHN MORGAN, ATTORNEY FOR ALLEGED BABYSITTER; DEPOSED P.I. TODAY: That`s right, Nancy. No one from the family, not Lee, not Cindy, not George. This guy`s in the house the whole time and nobody ever mentions Zenaida Gonzalez, the person who supposedly took the child.
GRACE: So they`ve hired private I`s.
Let`s go to the other lawyers. With me, John Morgan out of Orlando, Kirby Clemens, former prosecutor turned defense attorney in Atlanta, Alex Sanchez, renowned attorney out of the New York area.
Kirby Clemens, so they hire a private I. All right? But they never asked him go find Zenaida Gonzalez. She stole our granddaughter. Thoughts?
KIRBY CLEMENS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s a problem. And.
GRACE: Yes.
CLEMENS: And I have to admit that that is a problem. But that`s the family. The mother -- Caylee`s mother was in jail. The family, I don`t know. I still can`t explain why the grandmother waited so long to call the police. So there are some serious problems there.
GRACE: You know what, Kirby -- I`m sad to say the metamorphosis is complete. You truly are a defense attorney now. I remember the day you were a fine prosecutor. So now you`re shifting the blame somehow off the tot mom on to her family. It was a beautiful thing you just did.
What about it, Sanchez?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I read that examination from top to bottom and my opinion is that Mr. Morgan only asked basically a handful of questions about Zenaida Gonzalez and what that investigator knew.
Most of that examination concerned many, many peripheral issues, including whether or not Baez was having some type of affair in jail with Casey and some other irrelevant questions. So I don`t believe he really got to the bottom of that issue, at least so far.
GRACE: Mr. Morgan, we`ve all read the deposition. At any point did the one private I that showed up state that he was assigned to go look for Zenaida Gonzalez?
MORGAN: No, he did not. And I -- I don`t know who Sanchez is or where he works, but I got to the bottom of everything because they admitted they never looked for Zenaida Gonzalez.
They admitted that they went out directly to the spot where she was ultimately found. They admitted that they never called the police to meet them there that day. They admitted that they never called the police for days afterwards ever. I mean, they get a tip saying this is where the body is found, but they don`t call the police. It`s just.
GRACE: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Who gets a tip about where the body is?
MORGAN: Dominic Casey gets a tip. And he calls this other investigator Hoover, says come to my office. He comes to the office. Hoover says what`s up? He says we have found the body. I`ve got a tip, we`re going to -- we have found the body. They get in the car, they go to Suburban Drive. When they get to Suburban Drive, they pull up directly in front of the spot where the body`s actually found.
This was on a Saturday. They go into the woods, they`re in there for 20 minutes, Dominic Casey`s being filmed. They don`t find the body. They come back the next day, do the same thing. But they never called the police, they never told the police, even though Dominic Casey -- this is the only time that Dominic Casey ever went out physically looking for this little girl. So I don`t know who Sanchez is.
GRACE: So you`re telling me. The defense.
MORGAN: But he`s dead wrong. He needs to read the whole thing.
GRACE: Mr. Morgan, you`re telling me that under oath, the private I says the Anthony family gets a tip where Caylee`s body is and it`s right there where her body was found and they did not call police? Is that what I just heard?
MORGAN: That is what you heard. And it`s a blockbuster. And to me, I asked the investigators, did you think this was an alibi that was being set up? He said I don`t know. And so -- and I said who made, who gave him the tip? He said he wouldn`t tell me. He said we just found out that the body`s there, they drove out there on November 15th and returned the next day on November 16th.
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) gave the tip? Did the P.I. know who called in the tip?
MORGAN: My P.I. says he doesn`t know. He says he thinks it`s Lee Anthony. And -- but Dominic Casey has never told anyone.
ANNOUNCER: NANCY GRACE brought to you by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey has been a very wonderful caring mother and has never seen anything to not believe her.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Is she not telling you where her daughter is?
CINDY ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears to the court you care so little for your child you did not even report her missing until five weeks later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s continued down the same road with a woman that doesn`t exist, phone numbers that come back disconnected, addresses that people haven`t been live in in months. She steals a car, leaves it in the -- a part of town where she was supposed to be in another part of town. Everything is a lie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How come everybody is saying that you`re not upset that you`re not crying that you showed no caring of where Caylee was?
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I`m not sitting here (EXPLETIVE DELETED) crying every two seconds because I have to stay composed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to John Morgan, attorney for Gonzalez who deposed the Anthony family private I today. So the private eye says he gets a tip where the body is. This is before police find out about it. He goes to the location where, in fact, the body was discovered a couple of weeks later.
Now when I read the deposition, he`s saying he won`t -- you can`t find out who gave the tip. He alludes to a psychic. Mr. Morgan, why do you believe the tip came from Lee Anthony?
MORGAN: Well, I don`t necessarily believe that. What I`ve said was - - I asked the other private I today. I said, did Dominic Casey ever tell you who gave the tip? He said no, he didn`t. I said, well, who do you think gave the tip? And he said, I believe Lee Anthony or something to that effect low probability Lee Anthony. And then he kind of wobble on it.
But he -- Dominic Casey would never tell him, even though they`re out there for two days, who gave him this tip. Although, they drove directly - - I mean, I`m talking about straight to the -- where the body was ultimately found.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Susan in Virginia. Hi, Susan.
SUSAN, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, first of all, Nancy, I just wanted to say I love the fact you`re willing to ask the tough questions and stand up for those who can no longer fight for themselves.
GRACE: Thank you.
SUSAN: The question that I have is since Caylee`s remains were found, where is Lee Anthony? Why is he no longer visiting his sister? Why doesn`t he show up at court appearances? It`s almost as if he doesn`t want anything to do with her anymore. Why is that?
GRACE: To Steve Helling with "People" magazine. What do you think? What do you know, Steve?
HELLING: Well, I wouldn`t say that he doesn`t want anything to do with her. But I would say that at this point he knows anything that he does or says to her when they go to -- when he goes to the jail is going to be recorded and it`s going to come out in the news and he`s not ready for that to happen.
And also, he is actually working. He is not living in Orlando. He`s working. And the scheduling does not work out.
GRACE: Got it.
Joining me right now, Dr. Caryn Stark, psychologist in New York. Caryn, what do you make of the courtroom today?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, what I make of it, Nancy, is that in the end, Zenaida Gonzalez was not really mentioned in that family. So here we have this whole elaborate saying that, you know, she took the baby and it was all about her, but the family wasn`t looking for her at all. So you would think that nobody really believed that story in the family.
GRACE: And what do you make of the smirking and the antiques in court today?
STARK: Regressive behavior. Baez is really trying to bait the prosecutor. And the sad thing is that the prosecutor fell for it. You know, that`s not what`s supposed to be happening. He wanted to get him angry, and he did.
GRACE: Well, you know what, maybe Kirby Clements and Sanchez did have a point earlier.
I want to go now to Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner, Broward County, author of "When to Call the Doctor." Dr. Perper, as always, it`s an honor to have you with us tonight.
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": Thank you.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, I was going through the state`s witness list and I see the name Dr. Arpod Vass from Oakridge Labs. Who is he? Are you familiar with his work?
PERPER: Not really.
GRACE: I`m trying to determine whether he is the expert on the air sample evidence. Have you ever been in a trial where they used the air sample evidence?
PERPER: Well, sometimes it shows in cases of carbon monoxide poisoning to determine the extent of the carbon monoxide in the room, but not in regard to chloroform or other toxic gases.
GRACE: And Dr. Perper, a question that keeps arising, if Caylee had been administered chloroform or some other type of sedative over an extended period of time, would that show up in her hair?
PERPER: In my opinion, it`s very unlikely, but because now they can detect some byproducts of chloroform, perhaps those might be detected, though I greatly doubt.
GRACE: With me, Dr. Joshua Perper, joining us out of Miami.
Before we go to break, we were taking your calls live, but I want to tell you about a missing woman Hollywood. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to find out answers, and that`s why I`m here. I`m desperate. It`s my last shot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The anguished sister of this missing woman, 46- year-old Lesley Herring of Hollywood, last seen February 8th after arguing with her husband. Today an LAPD-sponsored news conference to plead for the public`s help revealed deep suspicions about the missing woman`s husband, Lyle Herring, who was on hand to make his own plea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Lesley`s out there listening to us, please give us a call. Come home, let us know what`s going on. I know we have a lot to talk about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have anything to do with your wife`s disappearance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would describe his cooperation as fragmented and less than helpful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Lew Stowers, reporter with Metro Networks, joining us from Huntington Beach, California. What can you tell me about the case, Lew?
LEW STOWERS, REPORTER, METRO NETWORKS, COVERING STORY: Well, just got off the phone with the Los Angeles Police Department. And a source I have there in the department, Nancy. And there are no other news other than the press conference that we had yesterday with the LAPD and homicide detective Chris Gable and Lesley Herring`s family.
But boy, it sure is hot for Lyle Herring, the husband of Lesley Herring, who didn`t even report his wife missing until Lesley`s sister, Aasha Davis, an actress who`s been seen on "Friday Night Lights" and "South of Nowhere" among other shows, was called by Lesley`s place of employment Tyco in Glendale where she is a very reliable and organized person in the accounting and payroll department.
GRACE: Exactly, and that is causing -- Lew Stowers, that`s stumping a lot of court watchers.
With me right now, the sister who finally reported her missing. Aasha Davis is Lesley Herring`s half sister.
Miss Davis, thank you for being with us. Many of will you recognize Miss Davis from her many, many television appearances.
Miss Davis, what happened the day she went missing?
AASHA DAVIS, ACTRESS, MISSING WOMAN`S HALF SISTER: That`s a -- a good question, Nancy. That`s what we`re trying to figure out, which is why -- you know, this is why I`m here. I`m trying to find out what happened, and where my sister is.
GRACE: Well, to your knowledge, what do you know?
DAVIS: I know from the detectives that her husband and her argued that weekend, and that he -- I believe he went to sleep, and then when he woke up, she was gone.
GRACE: Well, weren`t her keys, cell phone, pocketbook and car there at the home, yet he went on their Valentine`s Day vacation as planned and said he was looking for her in Mexico?
DAVIS: Exactly. Everything of my sister`s belongings were still there. It was just very disturbing to me. Just doesn`t sound like my sister.
GRACE: Aasha, how long has she been missing now?
DAVIS: Officially, almost seven weeks now.
GRACE: The tip line, 213-972-2915.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wish I could find out where she is, the place that we think she would be. That`s what I was told.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have anything to do with your wife`s disappearance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lie detector test? Have you volunteered to take one with the cops, that sort of thing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have not addressed that to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Lesley Herring`s sister, Aasha Davis is with us. You will recognize her from her many appearances on television.
Miss Davis, the day they had the argument, he says he went to sleep, slept all night, wakes up, she`s gone. Did I get that straight?
DAVIS: Yes. Yes. According to Lyle, that`s what happened.
GRACE: Have you spoken to him?
DAVIS: Yes, he`s my brother-in-law, so, you know, we do talk. Lately not often and very brief.
GRACE: Well, did he seem the same on the phone as normal?
DAVIS: H seems very upset. You know, low.
GRACE: Low. Sad. Well, what`s he doing to try to find her?
DAVIS: You would have to ask Lyle that question.
GRACE: Have you asked him?
DAVIS: Yes. We have very limited contact lately, just mostly e- mails, and things like that. And, you know, you can ask a lot of questions, but you can`t necessarily make people answer them.
GRACE: Mike Brooks, what do you make of it?
BROOKS: Nancy, with them holding a press conference today, I think they`re really, you know, grasping for straws. You know some people said well, why haven`t you taken a polygraph? My answer to that would be, well, possibly there could be other investigative techniques that the LAPD right now are incorporating in this case and maybe they don`t want to give a polygraph. But you know, if you (INAUDIBLE), go ahead and take it.
GRACE: What about it, Caryn Stark?
STARK: Well, Nancy, the thing is, he`s looking for her by going to Mexico, so what does that say? I mean this guy does not seem particularly disturbed.
GRACE: On a Mexican vacation. Dr. Caryn Stark joining us from New York.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Stacy Dryden, 22, North Canton, Ohio, killed, Iraq. Loved singing, cheerleading, nicknamed Fiery Angel. She looked sweet but was tough as nails. Leaves behind parents Thea and Ronald, brother Jake.
Stacy Dryden, American hero.
Thanks to all of our guests, but especially to you. And a special good night from Atlanta friend of the show, Chris the caterer.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
