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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Does Private Eye Have Insight in Casey Anthony Case?; Mother Upset with Leniency for Sex Offender
Aired March 26, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, private eye Jim Hoover makes jaw-dropping claims under oath in the case against Casey Anthony. Dominic Casey, another private eye, got a tip to look for Caylee`s body in the same spot where her remains were later found. Hoover speculates the tip could have come from the Anthony family. Could one of the Anthonys have known she was already dead and where she was buried?
And Hoover says ABC News paid Jose Baez at least $200,000 for Anthony home video. Does that fly in the face of what Jose Baez and Casey Anthony told the judge just yesterday?
Also, shocking news in the Haleigh Cummings disappearance. When I last spoke to Haleigh`s mother, she described what little brother Junior saw the night Haleigh disappeared.
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, MOTHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: He said it was a black man dressed in black, and he had squeaky shoes. And the (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stunning in light of new claims Misty kept company with a mystery man named Greg around that time. Is Misty cooperating with authorities to flush out this crucial clue?
Then, a mom unleashes on a judge.
RACHEL FALINO, MOTHER OF VICTIM: He violated his parole, and that`s all you can say is sorry?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rachel Falino`s 9-year-old daughter assaulted by a sex offender, but somehow the courts let him out with no monitoring bracelet. Did the justice system drop the ball? I`ll speak to the outraged mother.
Plus, "Dancing with the Stars" becomes stalking of the stars. Olympic gold medalist Shawn Johnson may have been in grave danger when a stalker was nabbed in the CBS lot with two loaded guns, duct tape, and love letters. He`s been charged and being held on bail. But for how long?
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely stunning new claims in the civil case against accused murderer Casey Anthony. A former private eye who volunteered to help the Anthony family was grilled under oath and on camera for three long hours. Private eye Jim Hoover delivered shocking claim after shocking claim.
And the biggest shocker of all: he says a month before Caylee`s remains were found, another Anthony family private eye named Dominic Casey told him flat out Caylee was dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM HOOVER, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: He said, "I`ve got something to tell you."
I said, "What`s up?"
He said, "I know where Caylee is." And then it was quiet for a few seconds. I`m thinking, you know, knowing that he -- you know, pretty sure that she was alive. And I`m thinking she`s alive. This is great. I said, "Great, let`s go get her," you know, or words to that effect.
He said, "We can`t." He said, "We can`t." He said, "She`s dead."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So how did he know she was dead and who gave him that tip? Hoover says the two men then went to the woods, where Hoover videotaped Dominic Casey looking for Caylee`s body in the very location where it was found one month later.
Hoover was asked who he thinks Dominic Casey is talking to -- this is so crucial -- on the phone as he searches for Caylee`s body.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy?
HOOVER: I don`t think he was talking to Cindy, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who?
HOOVER: I don`t think he was talking to Cindy. I don`t think he was talking to George.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do you think he was talking to?
HOOVER: He might possibly -- Lee. Possibly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lee?
HOOVER: Possibly. A probability. Possibly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, Lee Anthony`s lawyer fires back with a threat of a possible lawsuit against Mr. Hoover and others for that speculation. Why? Because the implications are whoever told him where to look knew where Caylee was buried and could somehow be involved.
So much to sift through tonight, and I`m taking your calls: 1-877-JVM- SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.
Let`s get straight to my fantastic panel: Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney, plus Scott Bernstein, private investigator, and Judy Kuriansky, Dr. Judy, clinical psychologist. Plus Stacey Honowitz, Florida state prosecutor.
Stacey, what are the implications of Jim Hoover`s claims that Dominic was told by somebody, possibly Lee, where Caylee`s body was one month before she was found?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA STATE PROSECUTOR: Well, Jane, I think that people all along, when they saw this videotape and they heard that someone pointed them in that direction, thought to themselves, "This is a tip that`s got to be coming from the Anthony camp. It`s not so far-fetched.
These were desperate grandparents, desperate to find the body of this child. So it`s not so far-fetched for everyone to think that somewhere on that side, somewhere within that family, somebody gave someone a tip. So it`s not that surprising that we`re...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you mean somebody gave someone a tip? You have to remember that, at this very time, the Anthony family was saying that they believed little Caylee was alive. In fact, they went to California to follow up on a Caylee sighting, and that`s where they were when the remains were found. And they had to fly back.
HONOWITZ: Jane, you don`t know what was going on within that family. You don`t know who knew what. You know, you have to remember one thing. Cindy changed her story. George changed his story. In the very beginning, they smelled death. They called the police. They thought this child was dead.
And then all of a sudden down the road, they decided to follow along and jump on the bandwagon of Zenaida Gonzalez. So is it possible that a tip came down the pike that we think she might be dead and please try to find the body? It`s not so out of the ordinary.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me just say, I have to give one side of the story here. Here`s what Lee Anthony`s attorney, Thomas Luka, who`s a friend of our show, has been on many times, had to say about Hoover`s claims just hours ago.
Quote, "Unfortunately, due to possible legal implications of Mr. Hoover`s statements, including the possibility of a civil suit on behalf of Mr. Anthony against Mr. Hoover or others, Mr. Anthony does not wish to comment on the statements made by Mr. Hoover in his deposition until Mr. Anthony and I have read or seen the full transcript of the proceedings and are able to place the event in relevant context." End quote.
HONOWITZ: That`s true. It`s true...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jayne Weintraub, grounds for a lawsuit here, Jayne? WEINTRAUB: I`m not so sure. But Hoover has no credibility. He can`t even be a witness anymore. He`s given such inconsistent statements. But the worst statement of all is that he said he came here voluntarily to claim his money. This is a P.I. who works for insurance companies. This isn`t a retired cop working a murder case for defense lawyers. This is a guy who came to ka-ching, ka-ching, make money.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Actually, he said he came out of the goodness of his heart to help out the Anthony family because he saw that they were being harassed when he was watching television. And he jumped in his car and drove there to try to help out the Anthonys.
WEINTRAUB: That`s what he said yesterday under oath. On December 18, at his first sworn statement, he told the cops he came down here to try and volunteer his services and hope that he could make some money. He knew it would be memorabilia.
SCOTT BERNSTEIN, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: This sounds like a guy who`s also looking to come down here and grab his 15 minutes of fame, as well. You`ve got a guy out here who`s coming down here out of the goodness of his heart. You`ve got a man who`s being deceptive in his investigations with the family.
Plus, you`ve got a man here, I believe, from an investigator`s standpoint, you`ve got somebody who tipped off the family who`s probably complicit in this crime, who gave the information to the family, who turned it over to this investigator. Who else would know this information and pass it on, then give the exact location where this body was found?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, Dr. Judy -- we need to bring in the shrink on this one. What do you make of this Jim Hoover fellow? I mean, with friends like this, who needs enemies, right?
DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, exactly. And he seems like a real opportunist. This is what the problem is.
Look, I`m all in favor of volunteers and when people rise to the occasion when a family like this is really in trouble. But it smells a little like this is a big hot potato. It takes a lot to throw yourself into the ring here. And I`m a little suspicious about that.
WEINTRAUB: Also, Jayne, you know, one more thing. Don`t forget he was taking pictures of Cindy and George Anthony in the church surreptitiously, without them even knowing it. What is up with this guy?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, guess what? The cell phone records of Dominic Casey will establish once and for all who he was talking to on the phone. Unless, of course, he has four cell phones and they don`t have the right records.
WEINTRAUB: It will all be hearsay anyway. This is all inadmissible. This is diversions and distractions. This is a civil deposition about Zenaida Gonzalez being defamed or not. This is not even supposed to happen...
(CROSSTALK)
HONOWITZ: I just have to say one thing, Jayne Weintraub and Jane Velez-Mitchell.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.
HONOWITZ: The bottom line...
WEINTRAUB: You`re yelling at me.
HONOWITZ: There are -- I`m not yelling. I`m yelling at Jayne Weintraub and not you. But the bottom line is there are certain things that definitely are going to be inadmissible. But to say that certain statements from a civil lawsuit under oath cannot later on be used in the criminal case is not correct.
WEINTRAUB: Oh, no, no, no. I meant Dominic Casey talking to so-and- so who said...
(CROSSTALK)
WEINTRAUB: That`s hearsay.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: These are claims made under oath. I think everybody has to be clear about that. This guy...
HONOWITZ: Correct.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He swore that what he`s saying is true.
HONOWITZ: You know, what I`m saying is if there`s conflicting statements or if there is something that can be admissible later on in a criminal case, it might be able to be. The bottom line was that your original question was is there an implication based on what he said? We don`t know what happened. But it does give an implication that they were tipped off. And that`s what it`s coming from.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know what`s so fascinating: they didn`t even get to Zenaida Gonzalez for a long time.
HONOWITZ: Over an hour.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Over an hour. And this is all supposed to be about Zenaida Gonzalez. So where is Zenaida Gonzalez are her attorney coming from? Are they just out to trash the Anthonys?
WEINTRAUB: You know, Jane -- you know, Jane, interestingly enough, he doesn`t ask the question for almost an hour. And then the answer is he never heard of Zenaida Gonzalez. He never heard of the nanny. He never heard of the babysitter.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, he never heard the Anthony family talking about Zenaida Gonzalez.
WEINTRAUB: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He never heard the Anthony family talking about any Zanny the nanny. Even though they have all along claimed that somebody, not this Zanny, but some Zanny the nanny took this child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that`s...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But that makes no sense. Wouldn`t they be talking about that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s the timeline...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I asked that question of Scott.
HONOWITZ: Oh, I`m sorry.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s all right.
Go ahead. Answer it, Scott.
BERNSTEIN: I didn`t hear it. I`m sorry. I didn`t hear the question over the talk.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. He`s basically saying that the family, the Anthony family, never talked in his presence about Zanny the nanny or any nanny, babysitter, taking the child. That`s their contention. So it`s sort of odd that they never discussed that, if he`s telling the truth.
BERNSTEIN: Well, who knows what this man is coming from. He can`t separate fact from fiction from this gentleman. I mean, who`s going to tell him? This man from the very beginning shows a lot of deception in his practices.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. A lot to talk about here. Lots of fallout to analyze in this deposition. We`re just getting started. Hoover makes some damning statements. Are you at home buying his claims? Call 1- 877-JVM-SAYS. 1-877-586-7297. Let me know.
Plus, jaw-dropping developments in the Haleigh Cummings disappearance. Was a mystery man named Greg at the house around the time she vanished?
But first, private eye Jim Hoover claims Jose Baez sold Anthony home video to ABC News for at least 20 grand. But yesterday Baez dodged the question about Casey`s defense expenses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE STAN STRICKLAND, ORANGE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: In terms of expenses in this matter, if there are any different manner or means of paying expenses, other than your paying them or your office is paying them or agreeing to pay them?
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: I think those put us at a level of confidentiality that I would prefer not to answer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO LIP)
HOOVER: He said, "I`ve got something to tell you."
I said, "What`s up?"
He said, "I know where Caylee is." And then it was quiet for a few seconds. I`m thinking, you know, knowing that he -- you know, pretty sure that she was alive. And I`m thinking she`s alive. This is great. I said, "Great, let`s go get her," you know, or words to that effect.
He said, "We can`t." He said, "We can`t." He said, "She`s dead."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Caylee is dead. That`s what private eye Jim Hoover claims he was told by another private eye working for the Anthony family, Dominic Casey, long before Caylee`s remains were actually found. How did he know?
We`re back taking your calls on these shocking new developments. Anna, Georgia, your question or thought, ma`am.
CALLER: Hi, Jane. I`ve been following this story ever since it broke out last year. I`m wondering what it`s going to take for Casey Anthony to admit the truth. And what kind of mother was she to be out partying instead of taking care of her child?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Judy Kuriansky?
KURIANSKY: Anna, guess what, she is probably never going to tell the truth, because she has lied consistently to a friend when she took her money. She`s lying constantly to everybody in the family. So I don`t think she`ll ever tell the truth. She doesn`t know what the truth is, really, like you do, Anna. That`s No. 1.
And No. 2, it`s so sad. There are some young women who are not ready to be moms. And in her case, she was not ready to be a mother. You`re sensitive to that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, just this week, she raised her hand and swore to tell the truth in court. Hoover made another shocking claim about Baez and ABC News. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever come to understand that ABC News had given the Anthonys or Jose Baez money?
HOOVER: I`d heard that money had been given to the attorney for some -- or the attorney -- or to Casey for some videos that was on ABC News.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Baez?
HOOVER: I was told that. I think so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hearsay.
HOOVER: That`s right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And was it $200,000? Is that the number you heard?
HOOVER: Two hundred or 225.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Hoover says Baez made about 200 grand selling home video to ABC News. But yesterday in court, we learned Baez does not have the right to sell Casey`s story.
Now, this is crucial nuance. Listen to the prosecutor ask the judge about the term, the definition of story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF ASHTON, ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY: I would like you to expand and give the definition of story. In other words, does story include photographs, videos, and things of that sort as I expressed in my...
BAEZ: I`m going to object to that. Excuse me.
ASHTON: Sir, if I may finish my statement.
BAEZ: I`ll do that in camera.
ASHTON: That`s fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t know what happened in camera or in the judge`s private chambers, but if the definition of story included videos and photos, wouldn`t this get Baez in trouble if this new claim that he made 200 grand off the Anthony family video is true, Jayne Weintraub?
WEINTRAUB: No, it wouldn`t. Because the issue really is -- and the judge made a finding of fact that there was no conflict based on what the judge saw. And if there was a potential conflict, Casey knowingly waived that conflict.
That`s the only issue. Did she knowingly and intelligently waive this issue -- waive this issue for later in the conflict?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey, you`re the prosecutor. Would you go back to court and say, "Hey, we`ve got this new information"?
HONOWITZ: Certainly, if it wasn`t divulged in the judge`s chambers and I had this new information. Certainly I would go back and support it. Prosecutor has an obligation, just like they did before, to go -- to find out where the funds are coming from. Is the representation compromised because he`s got other things going on on the side? In other words, who is benefiting from this? Is it benefiting...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey.
HONOWITZ: ... personally, or is his client going to -- you know, down the line, is she going to turn around and say, "You sold me down the river" because he had this deal going on? If new information does come out, that, in fact, one of the networks was paying for some photographs and it`s included in the story, then certainly it would be grounds for the prosecutor to go back into court and find out what`s going on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So Jose Baez says through his spokeswoman that they will not comment on anything financial, period. It`s attorney/client privilege. That`s his reaction to all this.
Sam, Pennsylvania, your question or thought, sir?
CALLER: Hi, Jane. Maybe the private eyes have friends at the police department who told them about the meter reader`s phone calls and the cops told them the location to search.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, that`s a good one. Scott Bernstein, you`re the private eye. What do you think?
BERNSTEIN: I think the -- certainly, the meter reader didn`t come in with the -- the tip until much later on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, no. The meter reader went in the summer, in August, and called authorities repeatedly and said, "Check this area out. I have a feeling about this area. There`s a bag. There`s something suspicious." And he was very angry because the law enforcement officer who came out didn`t even go to the bag because it was -- there was water and snakes. And said that there was really nothing there and cleared the area. And later that is the exact area where this body was found. So it`s certainly quite relevant.
And you do have to wonder, you know, how did Dominic Casey know to go to that location a month before Caylee`s remains were found at that location? It doesn`t make sense, Stacey Honowitz.
HONOWITZ: Well, I said it earlier on. I mean, certainly what he said, if he is to be believed in the deposition today, leaves the implication if everyone is hearing that, in fact, someone from the Anthony camp directed him in that manner.
But as you said earlier, the phone records will be determined as to who he was talking to. Was it someone related to the family, someone that had inside information? We`re not going to know until later on. We certainly don`t know.
KURIANSKY: The facts will come out. But when you look at the guy as he is nodding his head and thinking in his head when he`s asked those questions about who was on the other phone, there is a sense of his telling the truth there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`ll have to see. I want to thank my excellent panel. Scott, Jayne, stick around.
Octomom Nadya Suleman responds to Gloria Allred`s claim that she`s an unfit mom. But Octomom didn`t explain the new reports claiming that Nadya Suleman was once a stripper. Yes, that`s the latest claim. I`ll have the details.
And Rachel Falino unleashes on a judge after a sex offender who abused her daughter escapes justice. I`ll talk to that mom next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FALINO: That`s all I get is a sorry from the (EXPLETIVE DELETED)? That`s all I get? He violated his parole. That`s all you can say is sorry?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was outraged mother Rachel Falino, screaming at a judge in utter disgust Tuesday. Falino was horrified that the man who sexually assaulted her 9-year-old daughter two years ago when the child was 7 went unpunished after a serious parole violation.
Convicted sex offender John Canadian was out on parole roaming the streets of Massachusetts without his court-ordered GPS tracking device for months. Why? Why was the probation department out to lunch? They say they followed proper procedures and just gave the guy more time to fix the problem. More time?
The court finally just this week gave him a device which does not require a phone line. Why did Falino and her daughter have to live in fear for months while this guy roamed unchecked? Why wasn`t this convicted child molester thrown back in jail for violating his parole immediately?
The young victim`s mom, Rachel Falino, joins me now.
Rachel, hats off to you for standing up for you and your daughter and what`s right. But what went wrong here? Why did the judge do what the judge did?
(NO AUDIO)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`re having trouble. But I can give you some background. It was in 2007 when this woman`s daughter was just 7 years old that this man sexually assaulted her. And you know what`s so horrifying about this? He served under two years in prison. Now, you have to wonder why such a short sentence for sexually assaulting a child? And so that is the first thing that probably upsets this mother.
The second thing is he gets out on probation and then is walking around for months without this GPS device, which is really what he is supposed to be wearing legally, according to the law. So there are numerous problems. And we`d like to get his mom and talk to her about it.
Do we have Rachel Falino on? OK. I think I can hear you. Rachel?
FALINO: Hi.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How are you doing? OK. We`re back with you. I want to ask you -- I want to give you a compliment for standing up for your daughter and standing up for justice.
FALINO: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What -- what got you the most angry about this entire situation?
FALINO: Because it took so long. It took 89 days for him to get a GPS. It took me one day of going to the media for that parole officer to put a bracelet on him. One day for me to do it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Why didn`t they know this the second that he was out and they didn`t have the little signal back at base that he was on his device? Why didn`t they bring him in the first day? Wouldn`t they have known that he wasn`t wearing the device that was really required by his parole?
FALINO: He got out on December 20. They knew on December 22 where he was living and the facility that he was living at could not obtain the GPS.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You wanted the judge to put him back in jail, right?
FALINO: As a violation of his parole on February 23, he should have been sentenced for 2 1/2 years back then. He gave him three chances.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you must be so upset. How is your daughter holding up?
FALINO: My daughter is doing fine. She is. She`s doing very well, thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to thank you for having the courage to stand up. Come back soon.
Moving to a mother who seems to be doing all the wrong things. Outrageous new reports about Octomom Nadya Suleman coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: "Dancing with the Stars" becomes stalking of the stars. Contestant and Olympic gold medalist Shawn Johnson may have been in grave danger when a stalker was nabbed in the CBS lot with two loaded guns, duct tape and love letters.
Plus, octo-mom Nadya Suleman makes a detailed rebuttal to claims that she`s not fit to care for her 14 kids. I`ll have the latest on this octo- saga.
The latest octo-drama in just moments, but first, the desperate search for Haleigh Cummings takes another stunning turn tonight. Haleigh`s dad, Ron Cummings, fires back at allegations by mom, Crystal, that he abused his kids with shocking new photos of his own.
Ron claims his photos, you`re looking at them right there, show Haleigh in the days after a schoolyard fall. That fall was documented by her school and the local hospital. Ron`s lawyers claim they can prove these injuries are from the schoolyard fall, not any beating by Ron.
So what does this say about Crystal? We will have to wait for her reaction to this. When I last spoke to mom, Crystal, she described what 4- year-old Ronald Jr. saw the night little Haleigh disappeared.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE OF CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, MOTHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: And I asked him about it. And I was like, what about the black -- the person dressed in black? He said, it was a black man dressed in black and he had squeaky shoes and the couch was bouncing.
And that`s just what he told me. And I`m not lying. And I have no reason to lie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The couch was bouncing? What the heck does that mean? Hmm. These claims are astonishing in light of other new claims by the bounty hunter named Cobra that Misty kept company with a mystery man named Greg around the time of Haleigh`s disappearance.
So did Misty`s actions on the night Haleigh vanished have anything to do with this tragedy, this mystery? What`s her side of the story? We`ve put calls into Ron and his lawyer. And to reach Misty, that`s the best way to do it.
Again, we have not heard back from Misty. We want to talk to you, Misty.
With me now, Jayne Weintraub, a criminal defense attorney joining us again and Scott Bernstein, a private investigator and founder of "Child Recovery International" and T.J. Hart, program and news director of WSKY FM 97.3 who joins me by phone.
T.J., what is the very latest in this ongoing saga with Cobra, claiming Misty was hanging out with a guy named Greg?
T.J. HART, PROGRAM AND NEWS DIRECTOR WSKY FM 97.3: Well, this plays off of some of the audio that we played just last night Jane right here on the program where I talked to William "Cobra" Stubs (ph) and he was talking about reenacting a scene the night that the youngster went missing.
Now, at that time, there was some reluctant from Misty to participate. And during the time of the phone calls coming back and forth to Ronald in a restaurant where he and Ronald were situated and discussing the reenactment, Ronald says I`ve got something to tell you and Ronald allegedly pulled "Cobra" William Stubs that, yes, before you say it, I know she`s been keeping company with an African-American fellow and I`m cleaning up the vernacular here, for obvious reasons.
And he said, yes, and it could have been as recent as last week. And possibly even the night of the disappearance.
Now, we`ve got no response from Ron on that. And we`ve had people out looking for this man regarded as Greg. And Greg just may fit the description of the person that young Ron Jr. may have seen in the trailer the night used his sister disappeared.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s listen again to T.J.`s interview with the bounty hunter known as "Cobra." Here, he alleges Ron now doesn`t believe Misty`s story about the night Haleigh vanished. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM STUBS, BOUNTY HUNTER: Ronald was convinced now beyond any question of doubt that she was not there. She wasn`t home, bro. She was out [bleep] around very possibly with [bleep] again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, Misty, if you`re watching, you have an open invitation to come on ISSUES. We want to hear your side in all of this.
But I have to go back to T.J. on this. Do we know if Misty is cooperating with authorities to flesh out these crucial details? Or is she stonewalling at this point?
HART: Well, she has been questioned up to -- between 30 and 40 hours by officers. And police are not saying any more who they`ve questioned or if they are re-questioning or if they`re questioning any more new people since the information I gave you last night regarding a contract -- a contact rather with a gentleman by the name of Greg.
They`re saying everything is pertinent to the investigation. We cannot divulge the results of any conversations we`ve had.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this guy Greg lives in the neighborhood, right?
HART: Pardon me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s a local guy. He`s a local guy.
HART: He`s an area guy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.
Scott Bernstein, what do you make of it? I mean, you`re a private investigator --
SCOTT BERNSTEIN, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nobody has been able to find Greg?
HART: Yes, he`s been -- we`ve had people looking for him. He -- I believe one of the investigators may have scene him at a CITGO gas station tonight. I`m awaiting results of this possible engagement.
BERNSTEIN: But Jane --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And still police are not calling him a suspect or even a person of interesting? Scott Bernstein.
HART: They say they contacted him. They`ve say they contacted him.
BERNSTEIN: Jane, this is definitely a person of great -- a person of interest here. And this is very revealing. I don`t think -- I think you`ll find within 24, 48 hours you`re find out who exactly -- who this Greg person is. And they`re going to be pulling this man in and finding exactly what any implications that he might have with this.
Because absolutely, child -- children of any age are going to be telling the truth in any type of investigation. They have recall. They haven`t even learned to lie. They haven`t learned the element of fear yet.
And in my dealings with children, I`ve been doing this for 20 years, and interviewing children, they`re going to tell you the truth. There`s no reason for them to lie.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, ok.
Jayne Weintraub, our investigator here may consider him a person of interest, but police are not saying that. There`s this mystery guy, Greg. They`re aware of him and they are not saying anything.
Are police being too tight-lipped? Is it time for them to open up and say, we want to bring this guy. We want to talk to him, and here`s what we know.
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, because they`ve learned from the Casey Anthony mess. They are looking for the baby. They want to find Haleigh. They want to know where Haleigh went, where Haleigh -- who Haleigh was with. And the best way to do that is to just do their job.
Believe me they know who this guy Greg is. The fact that we don`t shows me they`re doing their job.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but, I mean, if they know and if he is in any way connected, shouldn`t that advance...
WEINTRAUB: They`ve already spoken to him, I`m sure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So then, he`s probably not connected, right? I mean, if they`ve talked to him...
WEINTRAUB: I would doubt it or -- he`s probably not connected to the custody battle going on or he`s probably not connected to the disappearance is my guess.
BERNTEIN: I think it`s all part of an ongoing investigation.
WEINTRAUB: My guess, is that if they had anything, they would have done it.
BERNSTEIN: They`re not going to reveal anything at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I hope it`s the breaking of a case, I really do because this is mystifying and baffling the entire nation at this point.
Thank you to my expert panel.
I want to turn now to a "Dancing with the Stars" shocker. Olympic gold medalist and dancing contestant Shawn Johnson just had a terrifying brush with a stalker on Monday as the 17-year-old Olympian rehearsed for the show.
Her allege stalker, 34-year-old Robert O`Ryan, broke into the studio lot. Luckily, he was caught by security guards before he tracked down his prey, you might say. But police found his car loaded with horrifying kidnapping gear. We`re talking two loaded guns, duct tape, zip ties, and love letters to Shawn. And that`s creepy.
Today, O`Ryan was charged with one felony count of stalking and two misdemeanor firearms counts. He has pled not guilty. He`s being held on $220,000 bail. His next court date set for April 27th. But at most, he`s looking at four years. Is that enough?
This is a horrifying situation for this young celebrity. And it`s all too familiar in Hollywood.
Joining me to discuss the very latest: Rhonda Saunders, an L.A. prosecutor and author of "Whisper of Fear" and Kim Serafin, senior editor for "In Touch Weekly."
Kim, what is the very latest?
KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, as you mentioned, he just did appeared in the court and he pled not guilty to all three counts to the felony of stalking, two misdemeanor counts of carrying a loaded firearm.
As you mentioned, $220,000 bail. He`ll be back in court April 27th.
But this is really scary. He was caught with all of this paraphernalia in the car. And apparently, reportedly he said to police he had packed all of his belongings from Florida, drove cross country, he had gotten messages through the television, through ESP, according to her parents and the statements he gave to the police that he was meant to be with her, that they were going to have a child together.
He had things like he knew where she went to school, he had addresses, he had a map how to get to her. It`s really, really frightening.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s terrifying.
Yes, Shawn Johnson`s alleged shocker broke on to the lot of "Dancing with the Stars" on Monday. Let`s take a look at the Olympian on the show.
Yes. Well, she`s obviously not just a great gymnast, but she`s also a great dancer. And we`re going to show you that in a second. That show of course, watched by about 20 million viewers. It`s huge.
O`Ryan has been charged because he broke out of the lot with a car full of weapons and duct tape. But my question to Rhonda Saunders, why is he only facing the stalking charge and the misdemeanor gun charges? Why isn`t he charged with attempted kidnapping since he had allegedly this attempted kidnapping gear?
RHONDA SAUNDERS, L.A. PROSECUTOR: Well, he had what I refer to as a rape kit in the Steven Spielberg case. In the Steve Spielberg case it was very similar because his stalker showed up with duct tape, razor blade, knife, information about Spielberg, handcuffs.
And he actually told people his intent was to tie Spielberg up and rape him. However, in this case, the kidnapping charge itself, they may not have enough evidence. But what he`s looking at right now, four years. It`s not enough. These stalkers don`t give up.
So we can put them in prison. We can put them in jail. But when they get out, they`re right back where they started.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. After four years, he`s still a threat.
SAUNDERS: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, even if he gets the max, he`s still a threat.
Let`s take a look. We do have "Dancing with the Stars" and Shawn Johnson on it. Let`s take a look because she`s really great in this.
Now, Kim Serafin, clearly she`s only making eye contact with her dance partner. And yet this guy apparently believed that she was making ESP contact with him. You know, through the -- through the air waves and sending him messages.
What I don`t understand, of course, is if he believed that, why did he need all of this gear that would obviously be something to take somebody against their will?
SERAFIN: Yes. I mean, obviously he`s not thinking clearly. And what he`s saying is not clear. But you know, we have had instances like this before. And most recently, the high-profile case that we`ve heard about. Also with a reality show star with Paula Abdul, which of course, that ended very tragically with her stalker.
I think, you know, you really get to know a lot of these celebrities so well on these reality shows. You get to see the background, what they do to rehearse and you really feel like you know them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
SERAFIN: And that`s an unfortunate consequence of that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to leave it right there. What a story, thank you both.
Drew Peterson tears down a memorial honoring his missing wife. I`ll have an update.
And more octo-mom drama and you won`t believe this latest development.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Octo-mom Nadya Suleman responds to Gloria Allred, but an outrageous claim about octo-mom`s past is stealing the limelight. I will have the details.
First, "Top of the Block" tonight.
An update on the disappearance of Stacy Peterson, husband Drew continues his campaign to become America`s biggest creep. You will not believe this one. His neighbors set up a beautiful memorial of ribbons to honor Stacy and Peterson`s murdered third wife, Kathleen Savio.
Well, according to reports, this weekend Drew snuck out in the middle of the night dressed in black and tore down the memorial with one of his kids.
Stacy went missing in October 2007. His third wife was killed in 2004. But Drew has not been charged in either case. Too bad we can`t throw him in jail for being a cad.
That`s tonight`s "Top of the Block."
Just when you thought octo-drama couldn`t get any more dramatic, here is a new bizarre twist. The "National Enquirer" reports that Nadya once told a close friend that at 19 she performed as a topless dancer but just for one night. Hey, I`m not going to judge her for that. It happens.
But it could help explain an apparent clash of cultures between Nadya and the nurses from Angels in Waiting. The stunning revelation comes amid the bitter war of words playing out on national TV and the Internet.
On today`s Dr. Phil, a near knockdown drag-out fight between the Angels and octo-attorney.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY FOR ANGELS IN WAITING: We hadn`t discussed the catastrophe that occurred Tuesday night because you and Nadya failed to plan and provide adequate security. Because you dared to tell the media that...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t go past this line. I`ll stay on this side, you stay on this side.
ALLRED: When you yelled and you punched your fist right into the wall of the nursery near the wall of the nursery. Those little babies were inside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did not. I did not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Octo-mom for her part took shots at Angels in Waiting during her daily Radaronline rant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NADYA SULEMAN, MOTHER OF OCTUPLETS: The kids weren`t even happy that they were here. They kept making comments to me, when are they leaving? That was also one of the reasons I chose not to work with them any longer. And because there was such lack of communication and they were just toxic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Toxic, huh? Will there ever be a truce? The bottom line here, somebody needs to make sure those 14 kids are cared for.
I want to hear what you think. So give me a holler but first, my fantastic panel: Tara Fields, family therapist; Lisa Bloom, anchor at the legal network "In Session" who happens to be Gloria Allred`s daughter -- we`ll talk about that momentarily; and Mike Walters, assignment manager of TMZ.
Mike, what is the very latest?
MIKE WALTERS, ASSIGNMENT MANAGER, TMZ: You know, Jane, you`re right. The key right now is, is someone going to take care of these kids? I mean, put aside Angels in Waiting and all this argument between who does what, when. Who cares?
Point is, we talked to a company called Mary Poppins that is taking care of the kids, actually has been working with her for over two years. There`s 18 nannies that are going to work four to five-day shifts for 12 hours at a time. And they already are doing it. These are the ones doing it now.
So the other thing is they`re not going to make her pay the $600 fee up front and they`re not going to make her pay the full price, which is several hundred dollars a day per person. So at least someone is going to do it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa bloom, I am a big fan of your mom`s. I know she fights for women, she fights for kids, she fights for a lot of people who don`t have a voice.
Where is CPS in all of this? Because apparently Angels in Waiting called CPS, Child Protective Services, three times to complain about Nadya. I know if child services had shown up, there would be video of it.
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, "IN SESSION": Well, that`s a good question, Jane. As you know, my mom, Gloria Allred, did file a report with CPS way back before any of the octo-babies even were brought home.
By the way, I have an interview with my mom about all the details on bettyconfidential.com today, including the details about Nadya basically picking the cameras over her own babies, allowing in people I assume from that organization that was just named that hired the nannies to come in when they had tested positive for tuberculosis, not wearing masks, coughing and coughing in the house.
Angels in Waiting nurses were absolutely appalled by that. I mean, there are some very real and legitimate complaints against Nadya Suleman as to her lack of care and compassion for these babies.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, there are so many charges. We`re going to try to go through them. Here`s what octo-mom had told Radaronline about accusations she didn`t spend enough time with these new babies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SULEMAN: All of that is beyond catastrophied (ph). I was in there -- I was in there as much as I could until I felt completely like rejected by them. Almost -- I felt so like a stranger in my own home. They were constantly interrogating me and waiting. Just waiting. The angels waiting for me to make a mistake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: As we`ve been saying, those nurses are mandated reporters. If something is wrong, they are obliged to notify authorities.
That said, get back to the idea of a culture clash. I mean, she`s not that prim and proper. We just heard, she one night worked as a topless dancer when she was 19. We have these prim nurses.
Tara Fields, could there some kind of just personality clash that exacerbates all of this?
TARA FIELDS, FAMILY THERAPIST: Even in San Francisco, I think that -- that`s making things a little PC. I think this goes way beyond a culture clash.
I think this really taps into this narcissistic wound where this group came in and we don`t really know what happened and their intention was probably to really take care of these children.
There was no buying them. There was no ratings benefit for them. And if she felt a little violated, too bad.
I mean, maybe that`s the reality check that says they probably were the right people to be there. And in terms of child reporting, I just want to say as someone who is mandated by law, if we even have a suspicion that the children are being neglected, we have to report it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely.
Ok. Everyone, you stay right there.
More on the feud between octo-mom and Gloria Allred in a moment. Here is Gloria Allred making harsh claims about octo-mom just yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLRED: Nadya, as the mother of these babies and other children is responsible for the dangerous environment in her home which she permitted and even encouraged by allowing the media inside with no security provided and little or no...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLRED: He was shouting and yelling obscenities to our AIW nannies stating, quote, "Get the "f" out of here. All of you are fired."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Those fiery words according to Gloria came from Nadya`s attorney. Gloria says that on the night of March 17th when the first two octuplets came home, he entered like a raging bull and began waving his finger in the face of one of the nurses.
Boy, a lot of animosity in that house and probably not great for the kids on a psychological level. Gail, California. Your question or thought?
GAIL, CALIFORNIA: Yes, octo-mom, she fired the Angels in Waiting and is now getting nurses from Kaiser which is paid by medical. How can she possible still qualify for medical when she is getting hundreds of thousands of dollars from the tabloids, drives a new car, bought a 560,000 house, food stamps, et cetera. It`s time for her to get off the taxpayers` dole.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Lisa Bloom, that`s just a very good question.
BLOOM: That`s a great question, yes. The concern about Kaiser, by the way, is that those nurses have a valid confidentiality so there`s no more transparency. Angels in Waiting wanted transparency. They wanted the world to know because public donations are being solicited and they wanted to tell the world how the babies were doing.
That`s all gone now with Kaiser and your caller raises a very good point. Where is Nadya`s money coming from? She has not answered that. She has a brand new jacuzzi tub that`s just been installed in the house.
VELEZ-MITHCELL: She claims that that was donated by a friend.
BLOOM: A friend, I know.
Everything is supposedly coming from a friend. Who are these friends? Are they real organizations...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who are these people?
BLOOM: Radaronline probably paying for these daily interviews. That seems to be regular for her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa, I will say this. The radaronline interviews are certainly going to have to take time. In other words, it takes time to get makeup and then sit in the right place. We all know that. We`re in the business.
So let me bring Mike Walters into this. Obviously, that`s part of the contention of Angels in Waiting that she`s not around taking care of the kids. She disappears into a room.
WALTERS: Let me tell you one thing, everyone sitting down, my sources tell me that our closest situation by the end of this year she could almost make close to $1 million just in photos, video and interviews that are being paid for per time. So she`s making money.
Let me tell you the other part about this whole thing. There are photos of her and just wait. Those are coming out in the next few days. I can`t say too much. I will say there is photos of her. She was an escort and those are coming out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to be careful there.
I have no knowledge of that. No knowledge of that. That`s what you`re saying and that comes from you, not me.
WALTERS: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thanks to my fantastic panel for joining me.
Always a shocker here on ISSUES. That`s what you`re watching, ISSUES. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell.
END
