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Nancy Grace
Defense Plans to Subpoena Another Casey Anthony Friend
Aired March 30, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct-taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. Tot mom`s lawyers do it again. First they announce they`ll put tot mom`s best friend on the hot seat, demanding friend Amy Huizenga go under oath. That`s going to boomerang. The best friend was with tot mom the whole month she partied out of control while Caylee`s missing. And the friend`s an eyewitness to nights when tot mom actually brought 2-year-old Caylee to booze drinks parties and poker parties. Tot mom told the friend a string of lies, went so far to set up an explanation for the smell of death in her car, even stealing that friend`s checks for a shopping spree at Target for beer and push-up bras.
But now they give notice they want another incriminating witness under oath. Tot mom`s longtime childhood friend, Kiomarie Cruz, Cruz set to testify tot mom wanted desperately to put little Caylee up for adoption, tot mom never wanted the baby. But grandmother Cindy stood in the way. Cruz also set to spill the beans that after knowing tot mom for years, she never heard of any nanny Zenaida Gonzalez. She describes a contentious relationship between grandmother Cindy and tot mom over the years and how tot mom would do anything to spite her. Does that include murdering the one thing grandmother Cindy loved the most?
We also confirm four Orange County jail officers set to go under oath, including the ones with tot mom when she sees live coverage of the discovery of Caylee`s remains, immediately asking for medication for herself. And tonight, revealed, one of the only trials tot mom`s lead defense attorney ever tried was another murder of a 2-year-old little girl. And that client complains it`s Baez`s fault he`s behind bars tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey, do you still think you`re an unfit mother?
GRACE: The former best friend of tot mom who was there at the "anything but clothes" party is set to go under oath.
AMY HUIZENGA, CASEY`S FORMER FRIEND: She said that she was worried. She hadn`t seen Caylee. She hadn`t talked to Caylee in over a month. Casey kept saying, She`s fine. She`s with the nanny.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I want to see that little girl. I want to hear Caylee laugh. I want to be with my baby.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: Mom has thrown it in my face many times before that I`m an unfit mother.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: I`ve never seen her be a bad mom. She loves her daughter.
CASEY ANTHONY: Mommy loves her very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did grandmother bark at Casey about the smell in the trunk of the car?
HUIZENGA: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did?
HUIZENGA: I do remember her...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did she...
HUIZENGA: ... just saying that the car smells like (DELETED), and you know, they were terrified...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (DELETED) or death? I mean, did she go down the death road with her, like...
HUIZENGA: I don`t -- I don`t remember.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smells in the car, indications of a body being in the trunk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy was upset that he had said that about the smell. That`s your understanding.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
LEE ANTHONY: Two dead squirrels crawled up under the hood of the car and they died in there. My mother was talking about how she didn`t know how my dad survived it because the smell was so bad.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I don`t know why that`s funny.
But tonight, also, to Satsuma, Florida. A 5-year-old little girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone, vanished into thin air, the back door propped wide open. Dad comes home from the night shift to find not a trace of little Haleigh.
Breaking news tonight. Little Haleigh`s biological mother, Crystal Sheffield, in the hospital. How will it affect the search for her little girl? This as the bio mom shoots a torpedo, claiming girlfriend/baby- sitter, now teen bride Misty Croslin Cummings, the last person to see Haleigh alive, entertained another man in the home the night Haleigh disappear disappears.
Haleigh`s 4-year-old little brother claims a man in black kidnapped his sister. But the father`s lawyer says he was coached by the mom, including the bio mom putting the 4-year-old little boy on air for a TV interview. What was she thinking? As the battle over custody explodes regarding Haleigh`s little brother, photos emerge of the children with cuts or bruises on face, arms, legs, all of this obscuring the search. Tonight, where is 5-year-old Florida girl Haleigh?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news tonight. Haleigh Cummings`s mother suffers a seizure while driving today. She was taken to a local hospital with her 11-month-old daughter, who suffered no injuries. Sheffield`s family says this is the second seizure Crystal has ever had. The first happening two days before Haleigh disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re expecting the worst, not for Haleigh because I still feel she`s alive. But I just -- everybody`s a suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When a parent beats a child until the child is bloodied, that is a crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haleigh`s dad`s grandma says any claims of abuse are absolute lies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It enrages me. It really does. I`ve been around them children all their life. They`re happy. They`re loved.
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: I have no reason to lie. I want my daughter back. I don`t feel safe with him there. I mean, my daughter`s missing. He has a 17-year-old that he is married to now. She`s a child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Croslin was the last one to see Haleigh alive. She`s the one who tucked her into bed.
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: She was the last one to see her. She had nothing to do with this. I had nothing to do with this.
MISTY CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S STEPMOTHER: I would never hurt any little kid. I love Haleigh more than anything in this world. That was, like, my baby.
SHEFFIELD: He said, Mommy, I want to find my sissy. A man dressed in black took her. And that is what he told me. I swear, I am not lying. I have no reason to lie. I want my daughter back. And that`s what my son told me.
MISTY CUMMINGS: Haleigh, if you`re watching, Mommy loves you and I miss you and I want you to come home.
RONALD CUMMINGS: That`s all the focus should be on is finding my daughter. Please, let`s find my daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, an 8-year-old girl disappears after leaving a play date with a little friend, Tracy (ph), California. We confirm at least 78 sex offenders in just a five-mile radius of the little girl`s home. Tonight, hours count in the search for 8-year-old Sandra Kentu (ph).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She told she me she was going to go a friend`s, and I haven`t seen her since.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is your concern as a parent right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That she`s OK!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Tracy Police Department is asking for the public`s assistance in locating 8-year-old Sandra Kentu, who has been missing from the Orchard Home Mobile Estates Park on Clover (ph) Road in Tracy. She`s 4 feet tall. She weighs 45 pounds. She has brown hair and brown eyes. She was wearing a pink Hello Kitty T-shirt and dressed in black leggings.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say she was caught on a surveillance camera walking away from her mobile home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The big concern is that she may have been kidnapped.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very unusual for someone who just turned 8 years old to be gone for that long. And we`re very concerned that she is missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, tot mom`s longtime childhood friend, Kiomarie Cruz, set to testify tot mom wanted desperately to put little Caylee up for adoption, she never wanted the baby.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY: How are you?
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, man, I don`t want to start crying.
LEE ANTHONY: No, I don`t, either.
CMA, I miss you! I love you! I need you to know that I will never forget the promise that I made you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some day, I want to go and visit her grave and tell her how much I miss her.
CASEY ANTHONY: Come on! I`m so beyond frustrated with -- with all of this that I can`t even swallow right now. It hurts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put yourself in the Anthony family`s shoes and give thanks that you`re not there.
HUIZENGA: ... called me crying at about 11:00 o`clock that night, saying that, you know, Casey was gone -- or Caylee was gone and that Casey said the nanny had ran off with her, like, a month ago. And you know, that`s the first I heard of that story. But she called me from her cell phone at 11:00 o`clock on the 15th. Nothing that Casey says is true.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not in control of over an this because I don`t know what the hell`s going on. I don`t know what`s going on. My entire life has been taken from me! Everything has been taken from me!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams, standing by there at the Orlando jailhouse. Mark Williams, what`s the latest?
MARK WILLIAMS, REPORTER/ANCHOR: Well, a couple of things have happened over the past day or so, Nancy. First off, photos from the FBI crime lab have been turned over to defense attorney Jose Baez and his team. The photos are those showing duct tape over the remains of little Caylee. It`s not known when those will be released to the public.
Also, attorney Jose Baez wants to depose one of Casey Anthony`s best friends in middle school, Kiomarie Cruz. He wants to depose her under oath. She originally talked with authorities on July 19th. Casey at one time was considering giving up little Caylee for adoption. Ms. Cruz at the time said she would be willing to adopt Caylee Anthony. And things were in the works.
But when Cindy Anthony, the grandmother of Caylee and the mother of Casey, found out, she went ballistic and put a stop to it. Also she told - - Ms. Cruz told investigators back in July of this little wooded area along Suburban Drive where some of the kids from middle school used to hang out and bury their dead pets there, close to where little Caylee`s remains were found, Nancy.
GRACE: Straight out to Ellie Jostad, our produce on the story from the very beginning. Ellie, this woman is a ticking time bomb so far as the tot mom`s defense goes, yet they are hell bent on putting her under oath and deposing her. How badly can she hurt the defense? What does she have to say about tot mom?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, as Mark explained, she claims that when Casey was pregnant, she ran into her and she said, You know, Casey, what are you going do about the baby? And she said, Well, I want to give it up for adoption. Now, Kiomarie Cruz was not able to have children, so she and Casey discussed it. They thought it would be a great idea if she would adopt the baby as soon as she was born. But Cindy got word of it and put the end to it.
GRACE: Ellie Jostad, isn`t it true that we also know this witness was with tot mom for years and never heard of the nanny, Zenaida Gonzalez?
JOSTAD: Right. She said she`d never heard of any Gonzalez, other than a lady who lived down the street and didn`t baby-sit children. She also said that this wooded area where the body was eventually found -- she said that this was a secret hide-out that only the kids in the neighborhood knew about. It was very secluded, and the adults didn`t know about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m concerned about the leads we have, and I just want to make sure that everything that was in (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I shouldn`t have to remind you that what was said in camera should not be public information beyond what our court reporter did in recording it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s -- that`s...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t need to be reminded of our obligation, and that`s pretty -- I`m sorry. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I`m not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what? This is getting old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do he think he was talking to?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He might possibly, possibly, you know, a little probability, (INAUDIBLE) with his attorney, who had basically said he had information, or again -- again, I only saw, like, bits and pieces of the interview with Lee`s attorney, and it appeared that he knew more about that particular day or that particular search, OK, than somebody should. He said he had seen the videotape. The videotape hadn`t been released yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then he backed up and started backing out -- Maybe I saw the videotape, maybe I didn`t see the videotape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The defense is at it again in tot mom`s case. First they announce they want to put her best friend on the stand, Amy Huizenga. That`s the woman she stole the checks from and partied with, included bringing Caylee along. And now another friend, Kiomarie Cruz.
Back to you, Ellie Jostad. What other bombs can Cruz drop on tot mom`s head?
JOSTAD: Well, Kiomarie Cruz also worked at Universal at one point. She said she ran into Casey Anthony just last summer. Casey told her she was working at the mummy attraction at Universal, which Kio knew was not true. She also says that Casey Anthony would do anything to spite her mother. She even thought that she may be bipolar and she said that -- the concern was that if the situation got bad enough with her mom that she said, quote, "I know she would be stupid enough to give up her child for adoption and not tell anybody."
GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who spent time there in the home with the Anthonys. That recurring evidence of the hatred, the contentious nature between grandmother Cindy and tot mom Casey Anthony -- did you observe that yourself?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: No, but you could sometimes hear it. Tracy (ph) mentioned it on several occasions when it would kind of bubble over, over a difference of opinion between Cindy and Casey. It was definitely there. It was -- it was -- it was very visual at times, when they would walk past each other in the living room, that it was definitely there, verbally, at times when they were with Tracy in the separate rooms.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas. You all know Marc Klaas, tireless victims` rights advocate, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. He is a crime victim as well after the murder of his little girl, Polly Klaas. Marc, what do you make of it? Would someone -- would tot mom hate the mother so much she would do away with the thing she loved the most?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, certainly, evil lurks into the darkest hearts, and I think that Casey has demonstrated that she`s got a very dark heart. She`s incapable of telling the truth. She`s incapable of having, apparently, lasting relationships with anybody. So you know, nothing would surprise me from this woman. I think it`s sad and unfortunate. It`s too bad that adoption was stopped in the beginning, or we wouldn`t be sitting here talking about this case right now, I`m sure.
GRACE: To Natisha Lance, our producer, also on the case from the very beginning. What you can tell us about this old client the lead attorney, Jose Baez, that has surfaced? Is it true that one of the only cases that Baez has ever tried is defending somebody in the murder of another 2-year- old little girl? What is that, his specialty?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s correct. This is Nilton Diaz. He is currently serving a 15-year-old sentence for child abuse and manslaughter on a 2-year-old little girl. Now, what happened, Nancy, he is saying that Jose Baez had ineffective counsel, and because of that, he wants his conviction overturned.
GRACE: You know, let`s unleash the lawyers, John Burris, Midwin Charles. We are taking your calls live. John Burris joining us out of San Francisco. John, look, I find it odd that that`s his specialty, Baez, defending the murder of 2-year-old little girls. But everybody that gets sent to jail, John Burris, has plenty of time to twiddle their thumbs and claim their defense attorney was ineffective. Now, who am I supposed to believe, Jose Baez or some guy that killed a 2-year-old little girl, according to a jury?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, my presumption (INAUDIBLE) I would believe the lawyer here. I mean, I read over the transcripts a little bit of some of the documents (ph). Certainly, didn`t look like he was ineffective to me. It was a matter of strategy. He might -- lawyers do things differently, but that doesn`t make them ineffective because you get a bad result. So in a case like this, I would tend to want to believe the lawyers. If they have another lawyer that wants to look at it, it`s very risky business. Clients in custody after they`ve been convicted, they frequently make this claim of ineffective assistance of counsel. It rarely is successful. And just because he`s had only one or two cases doesn`t make him ineffective at the time. It`s really a function of what the evidence was.
GRACE: OK. Midwin?
MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: In order to make a case of ineffective assistance of counsel, you`ve got work really hard. That threshold is so high, Nancy. This attorney must have been asleep at the switch in order to prove that, and that just was not the case here.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. To Laura in Canada. Hi, Laura.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a theory I`d actually like to bounce off of...
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... both yourself and Leonard Padilla. Going back to her searches on the Internet -- allegedly her searches -- back in March, I wonder if any information has come out about what was going on in that family leading up to that point? Because I`ve often wondered, with the animosity between her and Cindy, if her first plan may have been to actually kill her mother and get her mother off her back and out of picture.
GRACE: You know, Laura, I`ve heard that theory before. Out to Natisha Lance. Natisha, a lot of people have floated that theory, but does it make any sense?
LANCE: There was a lot of turmoil going on in the house. It could be a possibility. There was the neck-breaking that was on the computer. But Nancy, one of the things that the FBI, as well as investigators, who`ve been working on this case believe is that all those searches had do with Caylee and not any other family member in the Anthony household.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl! I need to find her!
CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) been praying that I get to home.
CINDY ANTHONY: They could take our whole house down. They can level it. They could dig a big hole out, if they want. Caylee`s not there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How come everybody`s saying that you`re not upset, that you`re not crying, that you showed no caring of where Caylee is at all?
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I`m not sitting here (DELETED) crying every two seconds!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s hard for me to accept that she would do anything to Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: All I want is Caylee home, but I want to be there when she comes home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines. Laurie in Georgia. Hi, Laurie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I absolutely love your show. Your twins are fabulous.
GRACE: Thank you. I am blessed. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you are my angel of hope. I just (INAUDIBLE) really quick. I lost my mom at 45 due to a pulmonary embolism, and I know now that a person can live through it. So thank you so much. My question is concerning the last party pictures that came out with the casino dealer outfit.
GRACE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In pretty much every single photo, if you notice -- I wonder if the police have questioned other party goers or her friends that were there -- she`s got a lollipop in her mouth in almost every single one of those pictures. That`s a dead giveaway, especially with the hypersexual activity that was going on in that party. That`s a dead giveaway for Ecstasy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The allegations against Ronald Cummings were first made on national TV when Crystal Sheffield`s attorney, Kim Picazio, appeared on NANCY GRACE and said the injuries seen in this picture of Haleigh might have been caused by her father.
Ronald Cummings` attorney released this blustering response saying the injuries to Haleigh were a result of a fall at her elementary school. He says the photo taken November 5th the day before the accident at school shows Haleigh without any injuries.
Ronald`s attorney says this next photo was taken an hour and a half after Haleigh`s accident on November 6th. Another picture taken by Neves from the next day, November 7th, showing Haleigh`s facial injuries worsening and yet on November 9th again, according to Ronald`s attorney, a, quote, "natural progression and continuation of her response to the injury."
RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF MISSING 5-YR-OLD HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I`ve been slandered into a sorry father. I took good care of my business a few years by myself. It`s not a custody battle. It`s about finding my 5-year- old daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Accusations now mounting seem to be obscuring the search for this 5-year-old little girl. This, as we learn the biological mother of Haleigh, is in the hospital.
Art Harris, investigative journalist at Artharris.com -- Art, what happened?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, ARTHARRIS.COM, INTERVIEWED MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S NEW STEPMOM: Well, she -- she had an accident today, Crystal Sheffield apparently had a seizure according to a family member and had a wreck. She`s OK. Her daughter Chloe who was in the car and they are in satisfactory condition.
GRACE: I want to go out to Kim Picazio. She is the attorney for the biological mother, Crystal Sheffield.
Miss Picazio, it seems to me that a lot of allegations had been lodged by you and your client against Ronald Cummings, the father and the girlfriend Misty Croslin, now wife. Explain to me what you have done regarding the safe guarding of this 4-year-old little boy and why your client chose to put the 4-year-old little boy on TV for a televised interview?
KIM PICAZIO, ATTORNEY FOR HALEIGH`S MOTHER CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD: Well, with regard to safe guarding the child, again, we`ve said repeatedly, we have called the authorities, which is the purpose protocol after hearing child abuse allegations from multiple eyewitnesses.
We`ve also brought those people down to DCF. They`ve made sworn statements. The DCF is still continuing to tell us to hold off on filing any family law proceeding in wake of their investigation, which hopefully will be concluded very soon.
GRACE: Why did your client, in my mind, exploit a 4-year-old little boy by putting him on TV?
PICAZIO: I don`t believe that would be exploitation. I believe that they wanted to show her with the child. She has a very close relationship with the child. And this show has portrayed her.
GRACE: Who wanted to show her with the child?
PICAZIO: I believe that she wanted to show everyone that she was a good mother and that she had an involved relationship with the child contrary to a lot of the statements that`s been made.
GRACE: So the purpose was to make your client make her look better by whoring out the kid, by putting him on TV for an interview?
PICAZIO: No. I think that`s uncalled for. And I think that the entire public.
GRACE: Why did she put him on TV? Why?
PICAZIO: I think.
GRACE: Why did she put the little boy on TV?
PICAZIO: I think the public would like to see this child -- would like to see my client, would like everyone to answer for what happened.
GRACE: Well, let me remind you, Miss Picazio, it was the public that screened for a crucifixion 2,000 years ago. Does that make it right to put the 4-year-old child on TV to talk about what happened that night? Crazy. Hold on.
PICAZIO: No.
GRACE: Let`s go to the other lawyers.
PICAZIO: No. This was a very -- hang on. This was a very gentle interview. It showed her playing with the child on the floor. I don`t see how that can be exploitation and mind you this was after the police had already taken -- professionals had taken the child and questioned him. There could be no tainting. This was after the fact. After the police had already done their investigation.
GRACE: To Mark Hillman, Dr. Hillman, clinical psychotherapist, author of "My Therapist is Making Me Nuts."
Dr. Hillman, isn`t it true that when a child is a potential witness at trial, no one -- the family, TV interviewers, journalists -- nobody is supposed to go over that story again with the child? It could ruin his testimony at trial.
MARK HILLMAN, CLINICAL PSYHOTHERAPIST, AUTHOR OF "MY THERAPIST IS MAKING ME NUTS": You`re absolutely correct because, obviously, the child is being coached. The way the questions are being asked. It`s not raw. It`s not emotional. It`s all couched to present in a certain way.
And I agree with you, Nancy. This was exploitation of -- to make the mom better. How about her past cocaine abuse? Does that make her a better mom, too? I agree with you 100 percent.
GRACE: Well, you know what, Dr. Hillman, it`d be easy for me to jump on the bandwagon about the bio-mom`s cocaine use. But you know what, that would include about 25 percent of America having done drugs so you know what, I`ll let it go.
But putting the kid on TV in an effort to rehab her persona before the public, I don`t get it.
John Burris, Midwin Charles. John Burris, what about it?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I actually agree with you on this one, Nancy. And I know you`re surprised about that but I can`t think of any legitimate reason to put a child on television to have them interviewed. Everyone knows that a 4-year-old has real competency questions.
And once you start interviewing them, you can get different kinds of stories. So if the issue was to maintain that witness`s potential credibility for any kind of a legitimate.
GRACE: Right.
BURISS: . judicial proceeding, it`s undermined by that so.
GRACE: Midwin Charles?
MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Stop the presses. I actually agree with you, Nancy, believe it or not. You never want.
(LAUGHTER)
CHARLES: You never want to expose a child to media in this particular way, especially when it`s obvious that this mother did this to make herself look better.
GRACE: Well, in Picazio`s defense, attorney -- family attorney Kim Picazio, she the lawyer for the bio-mom, Crystal Sheffield.
Miss Picazio, you were not representing her at the time she put the kid in front of the camera, were you?
PICAZIO: No, I was not.
GRACE: OK. So I want to put that out there. Picazio, well respected in her area, summa cum laude graduate, University of Florida. Long story short, that was before you were on the case. But still that`s going to come back and hit your client in the neck in court like a boomerang.
PICAZIO: But, Nancy, we have to understand we`re dealing with people with a tenth grade education.
GRACE: So?
PICAZIO: . who were trying to do the best thing that they know how to do.
GRACE: Yes. You know what?
PICAZIO: And no one is perfect.
GRACE: Just say it.
PICAZIO: And there was no.
GRACE: I don`t want to hear because they didn`t have a good education. You can say that about a lot of people.
PICAZIO: No. They`re do -- they`re trying to get the story of the missing child out to the press as much as they can.
GRACE: Yes, OK.
PICAZIO: She wants everyone to see that she is a good mother.
GRACE: Yes, I heard that.
PICAZIO: .. after being repeatedly by the mother.
GRACE: I heard that.
PICAZIO: And let`s talk about Ronald Cummings.
GRACE: No, no, no. No, no. She`s the reason that she lost custody and there`s a reason for that. Two separate judges, three separate areas.
PICAZIO: There`s a reason for that four years ago. It was two separate judges.
GRACE: And you know what? Let`s advance.
(CROSSTALK)
PICAZIO: That`s improper. That`s not what happened.
GRACE: . the search for Haleigh tonight. Forget about your client...
PICAZIO: Let`s do that.
GRACE: . and her claims against the father and back and forth.
Back to Art Harris at Artharris.com. We`re taking your calls very quickly.
Art Harris, what more can you tell me about the search for this little girl? While everyone else is slinging mud, let`s just try to focus in on Haleigh. Help me.
HARRIS: Well, Nancy, there is not a lot of searching going on. Police are not getting as many leads as before. And they are looking for someone who can fill in the time line and either put Misty Cummings in the trailer that night or not.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Teresa, Utah. Hi, Teresa.
TERESA, CALLER FROM UTAH: Hi, Nancy. I love you and your babies are very precious. My question and comment are, wasn`t Crystal a young girl when she was also with Ronald? And I find it appalling what they are doing to Ronald.
GRACE: Yes, she was a young girl. The mother, her mother originally would not give consent for them to marry, then after Haleigh goes missing, she broke down and gave consent.
Teresa in Utah, do I agree with teen weddings? No, but that`s a whole other can of worms. We`re talking about the disappearance of little Haleigh. But you`re absolutely right, Teresa in Utah.
To Amanda in Georgia, Hi, dear.
AMANDA, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: hi. You`re so cool, Nancy.
GRACE: I am not. But thank you for saying that. I don`t think my kids think that.
AMANDA: You are. You`re awesome.
GRACE: Bless you. What`s your question?
AMANDA: I have a quick question. I find it a little weird that they ended up getting married. And I wondered what the laws were in Florida about testifying against yourself?
GRACE: Oh Amanda, we have researched it out the wazzu. At first I thought a nefarious intent. They don`t want to testify against each other at trial. In Florida there is a caveat to the law. If the case is about endangerment to a child, the husband/wife privilege does not exist.
Everybody, we are taking your calls live. When we get back, to Marc Klaas and Dr. Michael Bell, the Palm Beach chief medical examiner. But right now, happy birthday to a Georgia friend of the show, Lisa. She`s beautiful. She`s an elementary school principal. Man, she`s got her work cut out for her.
Happy birthday, Lisa.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, bring her home. I love you, honey. Please come home soon.
MARIA CHAVEZ, MOTHER OF MISSING 8-YR-OLD SANDRA: I just want my baby home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An 8-year-old girl by the name of Sandra Cantu went missing from the Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park. We`ve received a call at our 911 center from her mother stating that her daughter had gone missing. A search was begun about 15 minutes after we`ve received a call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Federal authorities continue to comb through the area including here in this open field.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve been through this field a couple of times. I know that they had the dogs out here and everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the search will continue until she is returned or we develop leads to point us into a different direction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please take care of her. You were once a kid, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want her returned immediately, safely and unharmed.
CHAVEZ: Please whoever has her, please bring her home. Please. I miss my little girl. We love her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Where is 8-year-old Sandra Cantu? Straight out to Sebastian Kunz with KNEW. Sebastian, what`s the latest?
SEBASTIAN KUNZ, REPORTER, KNEW RADIO, COVERING STORY: The latest, Nancy, is that they`ve increased the reward now to $7,000 in the case for any information leading to the recovery of Sandra Cantu, who`s been missing since about 4:00 -- 4:00 p.m. Friday is the last time that she was seen and when she was reported missing about four hours after that.
And the entire weekend was filled with, with an entire -- just a massive search effort. A manhunt involving multiple freeways, agents checking car, volunteers going door-to-door. A lot of people are pulling for this little girl tonight, Nancy.
GRACE: Look at this little girl. The tip line number, 209-831-6958 or 800-843-5678. Hours count. Every hour she`s gone minimizes the likelihood she`ll be found alive. Isn`t that true, Marc Klaas?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: That`s absolutely true, Nancy. And as we`ve discussed several times on this show in 76 percent of the cases children that are murdered as a result of an abduction are dead within three hours.
So it`s a very difficult situation, unfortunately, because they had no real information that she had been abducted. They were unable to -- they were unable to exercise an AMBER Alert. So again, more time was lost.
GRACE: Joining me right now, a very special guest. Maria Chavez is Sandra`s mother. Miss Chavez, thank you for being with us. What happened the day she went missing?
CHAVEZ: She came home from school about 3:00. And I gave her a hug and kiss and told her I love her and she asked if she could go to her friend`s house. I told her it was OK. And that was the last time I saw her. That`s everybody.
GRACE: How far away does the friend live? How far away was the friend?
CHAVEZ: Not too far in the same area.
GRACE: Like three houses? Five houses? A mile? How far?
CHAVEZ: It`s about -- maybe a few houses down.
GRACE: That`s not far at all. So did she make it to the little friend`s house?
CHAVEZ: No. Yes. She was seen playing with her.
GRACE: OK. And what time did she leave the little friend`s house?
CHAVEZ: That I don`t know.
GRACE: To Blake Taylor, news director at KMJ 580 News Radio. Blake, do we have a time line about what time she left the little friend`s house?
BLAKE TAYLOR, NEWS DIRECTOR, KMJ 580 NEWS RADIO: Yes. Well, at some time, Nancy -- and thanks for having me. Before 8:15 p.m., that`s when the 911 call went into the local authorities. The FBI then came in soon there after. They got involved. The search began thereafter, shortly thereafter.
And they scoured the area in that mobile home park for much of the night, into the early morning hours and she could be briefly seen on a security camera which is something that`s fairly rare in situations like this. She was seen in a security camera leaving from that friend`s home in that same mobile home park but like Maria just said moments ago, the friend was there.
They played a little bit. But that was the last they saw of her. And now we`re looking at 72 hours later, no sight of the girl.
GRACE: To Dr. Michael Bell, respected chief medical examiner out of Palm Beach County. Dr. Bell, let`s assume she`s alive, what are her needs right now?
DR. MICHAEL BELL, PALM BEACH CO. CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, her most immediate need would be that of water. We lose water every hour. And if that water`s not replaced on a continuous basis, then she`ll develop problems with that.
GRACE: Doctor, she is an 8-year-old girl. Now we have covered cases where 8-year-olds can fight back against abductors. What do you think?
BELL: Absolutely.
GRACE: Joining me also, everyone, in addition to Michael Bell, John Burris, Midwin Charles, Mark Hillman.
I want to go back to Sebastian Kunz with KNEW. Sebastian, do we have anymore of a time line about when she left the friend`s house?
KUNZ: Well, I do understand that there are reports that she went to go and try and visit another friend. Again, within the -- couple of house radius that we hear described. This is not a massive mobile home park. Less than 100 units within this mobile home park.
And this is not a massive city we`re talking about either. Tracy, California is just outside of the bay area that we hear about. It is sort of the first town you hit after you have left the nine-county bay area. It`s more of a rural community. And that`s why I think people are finding it so difficult to, you know, figure out what`s going on here. This is not a massive search radius we`re dealing with here.
GRACE: We have found nearly 80 registered sex offenders in a five- mile radius. With right now, the Chavez family spokesperson, Lisa Encarnacion.
Ma`am, thank you for being with us. What more are police telling you?
LISA ENCARNACION, SPOKESPERSON FOR MISSING 8-YR-OLD GIRL`S FAMILY: The police department and the FBI are very communicative with the family. And we are being briefed as often as information comes available. They`ve been great in their investigation.
The FBI, the Tracy Police Department and the community as a whole. There are no -- they are working on leads as they come in. But there is nothing solid right now that we know about.
GRACE: Back to Sandra`s mother, Maria Chavez. Miss Chavez, did she have a cell phone?
CHAVEZ: No, she did not.
GRACE: Did she have brothers and sisters?
CHAVEZ: Yes. She has two other sisters and a brother.
GRACE: Now when she left the little friend`s house, where was she headed?
CHAVEZ: To her friend`s house.
GRACE: Another friend right there in the neighborhood?
CHAVEZ: Yes.
GRACE: And did she make it to that home?
CHAVEZ: Yes, she did. She was seen playing with her.
GRACE: So she made it to the second home?
CHAVEZ: I don`t know.
GRACE: OK. Let me clarify that, Miss Encarnacion. She went to the first -- the 5-year-old friend`s home, then she was going to another little friend`s home? Did she make it to the second home?
ENCARNACION: We don`t know that she did that. We just know that she had gone to the first house.
GRACE: Yes.
ENCARNACION: . and played for just a short -- a very short time and then she was on her way to another friend`s house. And we don`t know -- we can`t confirm that she was there or if she was not.
GRACE: Everyone, we need your help. Look at this 8-year-old little girl, Sandra Cantu. Just beautiful. Please, the tip line. 209-831-6958 or 800-843-5678.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have been told that she is very friendly. She will speak to anyone. She`s very trusting of anyone she sees. And that is an unfortunate opportunity for people who are willing to take advantage of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: An 8-year-old little girl walking back and forth to a friend`s house to play, missing. Please, help find Sandra Cantu.
Out to family spokesperson, Lisa Encarnacion. Ma`am, what are police telling you?
ENCARNACION: There is really not been any new information that they have shared with us. There was a little more activity in the mobile home park today. They came to the house and retrieved some personal items of Sandra`s.
And the investigation is going on and, you know, of course, the family is devastated. And we`re just praying for her safe return and we will not give up until she comes home.
GRACE: Out to Marc Klaas. Marc, weigh in.
KLAAS: Well, first of all, I think what the family has to understand is that law enforcement is not going to share a lot of information with them. But what they should do is before them of any huge developments in the case before they hear it on the media.
And this is something that becomes increasingly difficult over time. I think another thing that really needs some attention is this whole idea of the last person to see her, the parents perhaps of the little 5-year-old girl.
That might be a commonality in all of the cases we`re talking about tonight, is that there doesn`t seem to be any clarity as far as the last person to see these kids go.
GRACE: Good point. Very quickly, Kristie in Utah, what`s your question, dear?
KRISTIE, CALLER FROM UTAH: I`m just curious if Miss Chavez or any of the family members have looked at the sex offender list and see if any of them were related or friends?
GRACE: Good question. To Lisa Encarnacion, have you looked at that list of registered sex offenders?
ENCARNACION: No, we have not. We have not been online to look at that and that information has not been shared with us.
GRACE: It`s online. You can look it up. But I promise you, Miss Encarnacion, the police have looked at it.
Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Scott Metcalf, 36, Framingham, Massachusetts, killed Iraq, on the third tour. Awarded many medals, including the National Defense Medal.
Loves science fiction, making friends, family. Leaves behind mother Paulette, sister Tracy, an Air Force medic, wife Betty Jo, daughter Korrine, stepsons Kurt (ph) and Matthew.
Scott Metcalf, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friends.
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