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Nancy Grace
Anthony Family Requests Private Meeting in Jailhouse With Casey
Aired March 31, 2009 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee, manner of death homicide. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct-taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. A secret jailhouse meeting, quote, "in motion." Tot mom`s defense wants to bend the rules, demanding special treatment behind bars for a private meeting alone without surveillance with tot mom`s parents and brother. It`s been months since the family`s had a jailhouse visit. As this murder one trial looms closer, why now? They say it`s to mourn little Caylee, who has yet to be buried, but prosecutors fear it`s just an opportunity to get their stories straight.
In the last hours, tot mom`s defense putting a jailhouse sheriff under oath. And we confirm tonight the defense does it again. On the heels of demanding two of tot mom`s close friends go on the hot seat under oath, likely to end in sworn testimony about tot mom`s dragging Caylee to booze- drenched parents, no sign a so-called nanny, the defense now wants tot mom`s former lover, Anthony Lazzaro, under oath. Lazzaro romantically linked to tot mom when Caylee goes missing, even renting videos on or around the date 2-year-old Caylee`s murdered, all caught on video, store surveillance cameras. This while tot mom`s defense demands a closed-door hearing with the judge, but why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He says, I got something to tell you. I said, What`s up? He says, I know where Caylee is. She`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Baez set to depose key witnesses...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amy Huizenga, who is the ex-best friend of Casey Anthony. Also Tammy Unser (ph). She worked at the jail. She, apparently, according to Jose Baez, may have showed Casey Anthony`s medical records to investigators. There`s also three other jail workers, also a deputy from the Orange County sheriff`s office, who could be deposed in this case.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I`m protecting our family, yes. Not from anything that I`ve done.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Is someone threatening us?
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, just leave it at that, please.
CINDY ANTHONY: OK.
CASEY ANTHONY: For right now, just leave it at that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey has demonstrated that she`s got a very dark heart.
CASEY ANTHONY: After about 7:00 o`clock, when I still hadn`t heard anything, I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey gets a tattoo on her shoulder that reads "Buena vita," "Good life."
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: My mother did tell me Casey and Caylee hadn`t been home.
Started looking on line, figured out she was supposed to be at a party and all that stuff.
CASEY ANTHONY: In my gut, she`s still OK, and it still feels like she`s -- she`s close to home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, an 8-year-old girl disappears after leaving a play date with a little friend, Tracy, California. We confirm near 80 sex offenders in just a five-mile radius of the girl`s home. Tonight, investigators announce two persons of interest, searching their homes. Dive teams used in today`s search, and polygraphs have been conducted. Tonight, hours still count in the search for 8-year-old Sandra Cantu.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you see the FBI swarming in, you`re, like, OK maybe this will be it. Hopefully, they`ll find her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The FBI served warrants on at least two homes in this mobile home park where Sandra Cantu lives and was last seen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After searching this park, as well as another home in Tracy and one in Oakdale, police say they`ve identified two persons of interest in this case that live in the park.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Through the interviews with them and interviews with people that are associated with them, it led us to believe that they may be involved in some way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re looking for evidence that would lead to the discovery of Sandra`s whereabouts. Evidence has been collected.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, whoever who has her, just let her go. She needs to come home to her mom, who loves her very much, misses her!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Also tonight, a beautiful Hollywood wife in a heated argument with her husband, then she vanishes, not reported missing until days later, and then not by her husband but by her TV actress sister. Even though his wife missing during their planned Valentine vacation, he goes anyway to, quote, "look for her." In Mexico? Hello! Her car, her wallet, cell phone, keys, they`re all left right there at the home. How`s she supposed to get to Mexico? Where is Hollywood wife Lesley Herring?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, a secret jailhouse meeting, quote, "in motion." Tot mom`s defense wants to bend the rules, demanding special treatment behind bars for a private meeting alone and without surveillance with her parents and brother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: ... Joe Schmo walking down the block and seeing this every day on the media for the last month. I can understand everybody else`s side on this, but the worst part of this is that nobody can see my side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Baez will also interview two Orange County jail officers who reportedly witnessed Casey`s reaction to news that skeletal remains were found near her family`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they play it right, look at this. This is a mother. This is a human being.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baez wants to depose one of Casey Anthony`s best friends in middle school, Kiomarie Cruz. Casey one time was considering giving up little Caylee for adoption.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there ever talk of Casey talking to you about giving up Caylee for adoption?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were certain times in the past where she would bring Caylee to parties where they would be drinking and playing poker. She would put Caylee down on a couch nearby, and she would sleep through the whole thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wheels are in motion, they say, for an Anthony family meeting behind bars. Local media reports Cindy and George Anthony requested the gathering to mourn the loss of Caylee Anthony.
CASEY ANTHONY: I have to keep my mouth shut about how I feel and with everything else because all I need to do is give the media more stuff to throw back in my face when this goes to trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said to me, Jose, I`m innocent. I`m going to walk out of this place with my head high.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams, anchor and reporter. Mark, what`s the latest?
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR AND REPORTER: Well, the latest, of course, is that George and Cindy Anthony would like to have a private jailhouse meeting with daughter Cindy (SIC) Anthony. The last time they met was August 14th. However, nobody believes that that meeting will ever happen. Jail -- corrections officer -- office spokesman Alan Moore (ph) tells us that no special meeting will take place. It`s just not allowed under jail rules.
They have had other highly touted individuals here, like boy band entrepreneur Lou Pearlman (ph) and former NASA astronaut Lisa Nowak. They never got any special considerations.
And now another thing that happened is that there was a report that they wanted to have a small memorial service for little Caylee inside the jail. That will not happen, either. Their attorney, Brad Conway, says there`s been no wheels set in motion for that.
Also, defense attorney Jose Baez has other depositions on tap scheduled for a period of time, and those are coming up soon. And it could include Tony Lazzaro, who is Casey Anthony`s ex-lover.
GRACE: OK, let me get something straight, Mark. The attorney for the Anthonys says no such private meeting is in motion. Then where did that come from?
WILLIAMS: That came from Brad Conway, especially about the memorial service. And it`s against jail rules to have any sort of a private meeting. As you know, the only person that`s allowed to have any sort of a private meeting, Nancy, is the client and his -- her -- his or her attorney. Those are the only folks able to have a private meeting. And it`s not the parents, not the brother, nobody else.
GRACE: Out to Natisha Lance, our producer on the story from the very beginning. This has been rumbling for some time, that they want to have a secret jailhouse funeral. Correct me if I`m wrong, Natisha, but little Caylee`s remains have yet to be buried. They had the big public to-do, the memorial, thousands -- nearly 2,000 people came. There was singing. There were secret coded messages sent from brother Lee Anthony to Casey Anthony behind bars. But still the child`s remains are sitting in a container, yet to be buried. What`s this about a jailhouse funeral?
And am I correct, Natisha, that they want to meet away from any surveillance, no plastic -- Plexiglas between them, no security cameras, nothing? That`s impossible!
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the first thing with the funeral, Nancy, we don`t know for sure, at least according to -- the public has not been made aware whether or not they have had a funeral for Caylee or not. What we do know is that her remains have been cremated.
Now, as far as this jailhouse meeting that is supposed to take place, yes, it is something that they would like to do in person with George, Cindy and Lee Anthony. The jail is saying it`s not going to happen. Brad Conway is saying they just want to have a meeting with their daughter, no service, no requiem or anything like that, but they just want to see their daughter. And at this point, the jail is saying it`s not going to happen.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Neta in Virginia. Hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s our question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your babies are beautiful, let me say.
GRACE: I`m blessed. I am blessed. What`s your question, love?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, Nancy, I know that the tot mom and the baby lived with her grandparents.
GRACE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I`m not understanding, being a grandmother myself, how your grandkids can go missing for 31 days before you yourself would have questions or call the police. And then why would you go and ask and be given immunity? It just seems to me that they`re more worried about protecting their daughter from the consequences than finding out what really happened to the baby.
GRACE: Neta in Virginia, so many people agree with you. Let`s go to our chief editorial producer, Ellie Jostad. Ellie, what about it?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, that`s true, Nancy. Everybody is wondering what Tony Lazzaro is going to say. What he is doing is -- he told police back in July that Casey Anthony was staying at his home after July 5th and that she would wake up in the middle of the night in cold sweats.
GRACE: Back to -- back to...
JOSTAD: He also said that he would -- he`s the one who picked her up at the Amscot on June 27th.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of car, full of maggots. It stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been. That smell was terrible.
CASEY ANTHONY: My daughter`s been missing for the last 31 days.
911 OPERATOR: And you know who has her?
CASEY ANTHONY: I know who has her. I`ve tried to contact her.
CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter may have some mistruths out there or half truths, but she`s not a murderer.
She`s not dead! No one`s found her yet.
There are certain things that the family can`t say. There are certain things that we do know. There are certain things that Casey knows that she can`t tell.
GRACE: Everything she says doesn`t make any sense.
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know. I`m not in Casey`s head. I`m not a psychiatrist. I thought I was here today to discuss Caylee, not to defend what my daughter`s doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go back to Neta in Virginia`s question regarding how the grandparents went for so long without realizing little Caylee was missing. Back to Natisha Lance. Natisha, what can you tell me?
LANCE: Well, one of the things, Nancy, is that Casey Anthony was telling her parents that Caylee was with the baby-sitter. She was at Seaworld. She was at Cocoa Beach. She was at all these different places. And then she would tell them, Oh, I`m going to come home. I`m bringing Caylee home tomorrow, I`m bringing her home this day, also telling them that she would let them see Caylee at certain points in time, also saying that they would be able to come and get her at different points. So she was kind of leading them on a wild goose chase, and all the while, they were never able to see her again.
GRACE: Back to the lines. Patty in Tennessee. Hi, Patty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Just out of curiosity, I know she was lying that she had been working and that she wasn`t really paying a nanny, but is there any way for anyone to access to see if she ever claimed a -- claimed -- or filed an income tax return where she claimed a child care deduction? And if not, if the parents claimed Casey or Caylee?
GRACE: Excellent question from Patty in Tennessee. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, family law attorney Susan Moss out of New York, veteran defense attorney Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta and famed defense attorney Daniel Horowitz joining us out of San Francisco.
Sue Moss, what about it?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Oh, there`s been absolutely no child credit deduction taken by Casey Anthony. Whether or not her parents took her as a deduction, that I don`t know. But what I can tell you is, apparently, she thinks this is the Paris Hilton jail if she thinks she`s going to get a private meeting with her parents.
GRACE: Ray Giudice, don`t you have to make some money to file taxes?
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s right, and I think the prosecution could clearly subpoena any tax records for Casey. I don`t think they`ll have the subpoena power that would allow them to get the parents` tax records. I don`t think they would be relevant and I think they`d be private. But I agree with Sue. I doubt any tax credit or any trail showing any payment for any nanny.
GRACE: Horowitz, what about the -- Horowitz, what about the jailhouse meeting?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, this is a bone that I have to pick with our system. Rich people like Bernie Madoff have family meetings in their penthouse. Why, just because they don`t have a lot of money, can`t they meet privately with their family? I think that she should have that meeting.
GRACE: Yes. I didn`t ask you what you thought in your imaginary world should be, all right? I`m asking you what the law is...
HOROWITZ: All right.
GRACE: ... what proper procedure is. What about it, Ray?
GIUDICE: Well, look, I don`t like it when the sheriff cuts deals and favors for other defendants. This sheriff has been very even-handed in a very difficult situation. He`s not going to allow these type of a ceremony or private meeting. And I think that issue just needs to be moved on, let Baez meet.
GRACE: Put Giudice up on the screen.
GIUDICE: Yes?
GRACE: Ceremony, shmeremony.
GIUDICE: That`s not happening.
GRACE: They have not been there since August 14.
GIUDICE: Right. And they shouldn`t...
GRACE: Very quickly, I think that`s about eight months. We`re going on a year.
GIUDICE: Well, look...
GRACE: And now, as the trial is looming, they suddenly want to have a get-together, a family reunion? Uh-uh! No!
GIUDICE: It`s not going to happen.
GRACE: This is to get their stories straight.
GIUDICE: Well, I agree with that. And the other thing is, a judge isn`t going to order it because the sheriff is in charge of security at the jail.
GRACE: Out to Sandy in Montana. Hi, Sandy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Nice to talk to you. I`ve been trying to get on for six months.
GRACE: Bless you. And thank you for calling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re welcome. And bless your babies. You know, I`ve been watching this from day one, and you know, I think maybe this might be getting to Casey, that she feels that she needs to tell somebody something, especially her mom and dad.
GRACE: Out to Leslie Austin, Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, joining us from New York. Leslie, come on!
LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: No.
GRACE: You and I have sat there and carefully watched hours, hours of jailhouse surveillance when she`s meeting with the family. She has a story aligned for everything. There`s a dead squirrel on my car.
AUSTIN: She sure does.
GRACE: That`s why the car smells a dead body. The nanny took the baby at Sawgrass Apartments. No, excuse me, Jay Blanchard Park. Yes, I worked -- I worked at Disneyland, but oh, no, I was a private contractor, so I worked from home. I mean, there`s a story for everything.
AUSTIN: There sure is.
GRACE: Yes, I got the cell phone, but it was on my Blackjack. Oh, and I lost it. She`s not ever going to admit to anything.
AUSTIN: No, of course she`s not. The caller`s assuming that she has a conscience. She shows a lot of sociopathic tendencies. She`s only going to talk when it suits her, to protect her, and she really does see herself as the victim here. She`s being constrained. She`s not going to break for anybody, anywhere unless it serves her interest.
GRACE: Out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter. He`s also going to be deposed under oath regarding this case. Leonard, what about it? The caller seems to think that tot mom wants this private meeting, bend all the rules, because she wants to confess. I don`t see it.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: No, no, no. She doesn`t want the meeting. That`s Cindy that wants the meeting. Caylee (SIC) doesn`t want to have anything to do with Cindy or George at this stage of the game. It`s strictly a Cindy thing, and Cindy`s going to make the system bend for her. It`s a Cindy thing. And the doctor said the truth. Caylee`s never - - I mean, Casey`s never going to admit anything about anything. She`s going to lie her way through until the day that they finally bring the gavel down and sentence her.
GRACE: Also, we learn that the defense wants a secret meeting behind closed doors with the judge. Out to Natisha Lance. Why?
LANCE: They`re saying that there are some sensitive matters which are critical to the defense that they want to have addressed and they don`t want to have those things addressed in front of the public, nor in front of the prosecutors.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY: Everything that you`re telling them is a lie.
CASEY ANTHONY: I have no clue where Caylee is. If I knew where Caylee was, do you think any of this would be happening? No. They`re blaming me for stuff that never would do and that I didn`t do.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Yes, I told everyone where I used to take her. What can I say? You believe your child. You put faith in and everything.
CASEY ANTHONY: There`s nothing to find out. There`s absolutely nothing to find out. And that`s even what I told the detectives.
You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. We learn that tot mom`s defense wants to bend the rules behind bars and have a private meeting -- no surveillance, no Plexiglas, nothing -- with her family. Is it to get their stories straight? Also, the defense wants a secret meeting with the judge, as well. This as a former lover goes on the hot seat under oath. You`re seeing video, everyone, from YouTube.
Very quickly, back to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, putting Tony Lazzaro under oath is yet another shot in the foot for the defense. He can decimate the tot mom.
JOSTAD: That`s true, Nancy. Now, remember, Caylee was reported missing on July 15th. After July 5th, Tony Lazzaro says Casey Anthony was staying with him almost every night. Caylee was not with her. When he would ask, she would say, Oh, she`s at Disney. She`s at the beach. She`s with the nanny. He also never met the nanny, never saw her talk on the phone to the nanny. And Tony Lazzaro, you`ll remember, is the guy who actually wore a wire for police and met with Lee Anthony and secretly recorded it.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Lisa in Tennessee. Hi, Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you? Love your show.
GRACE: I`m good, dear. Well, bless you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just have a question. If Caylee`s father really died and how money-hungry Casey is, did no one find it strange that she didn`t try to get Social Security for her or go after a life insurance policy or contact the father`s parents to get money?
GRACE: Well, I for one, find it extremely unusual. Mark Williams, was there ever a Social Security claim on Caylee regarding the death of her father?
WILLIAMS: Not that we know of because he signed off all his paternal rights to Casey (SIC) when Caylee was born.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: The horrible thing that happened is this is the honest to God`s truth. With everything that I`ve said I do not know where she is. The last person that I saw her with is Zenaida. She`s the last person that I seen my daughter with.
CPL. YURY MELICH, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: And we know that that`s not true. That can`t be the truth.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: There`s little threads of truth in all these little lies she`s telling. I know it. But we just can`t get it together.
MELICH: Here`s where it needs to end. Here`s where the truth needs to come out. OK? No more lies. No more bull coming out of your mouth. We`ve been very respectful. We`re taking our time and talking to you. But we`re tired of the lies. No more lies. What happened to Caylee?
C. ANTHONY: I don`t know.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: My daughter may have some mistruths out there or half-truths but she is not a murderer.
MELICH: Basically if you`re trying to fabricate a story to kind of make something look a little bit better, now is your time to tell me. Are you telling me that this is the story that you want to stick with?
C. ANTHONY: It`s truth. It`s the story I`m going to stick with. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Before we take you to Tracy, California, in the search for an 8-year-old little girl, I want to go back out to Mark Williams.
So right now, as it stands, we`ve got the defense yet again putting somebody on the hot seat under oath that will torpedo the defense. You`ve got a best friend that tot mom stole from. You`ve got another friend that she wanted to give Caylee away to. Wanted to put the child up for adoption.
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Yes.
GRACE: And now a lover at the time Caylee goes missing. And I just researched it very quickly. The movies she checked out with this guy, Tony Lazzarro, her then lover, untraceable about a kidnapper and a killer, and "Jumper," about a mother who abandons her little child.
OK. That`s what she picked out to watch on video. Let`s see that video, Liz. There we go. On or about the day Caylee is murdered. This is the guy they want to put under oath, are they crazy?
WILLIAMS: I don`t think they`re crazy. I think they want some more information out of Lazzarro, as to why -- and really get in depth with what she was doing at the apartment from July 5th on, until she was arrested for the first time in this case.
You know, the two movies may be a good defense witness, or a good defense move, to see what her psyche was about during that period of time, Nancy.
GRACE: Let`s go to the lawyers. Sue Moss, Ray Giudice, Daniel Horowitz.
Sue, I hardly think it`s going to help the defense to put up on the day that Caylee is murdered or we believe she`s murdered. The mom`s checking out -- movies about a killer and a kidnapper and a mother who abandons her tot.
SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: With friends like these, who needs a prosecutor? I mean, these friends are going to do her in. The fact that.
GRACE: They`re not doing her in, Sue Moss. They are simply telling the truth under oath about her behavior. She dug her own grave.
MOSS: Absolutely. They`re just going to describe how she did it.
GRACE: Can those videos come in, Ray Giudice? Will that be part of the evidence?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Boy, that`s tough. I think not. I don`t think the videos.
GRACE: Why? Just give me one legal reason.
GIUDICE: Hold on. Hold on. I don`t think the videos themselves are coming in. The titles might come in but I don`t think we`re going to play an hour half, two-hour video for a jury in the middle of the trial.
GRACE: Yes, you`re right about that.
GIUDICE: The judge is going to find -- OK.
GRACE: Let me rephrase.
GIUDICE: OK, good.
GRACE: Let me rephrase.
GIUDICE: Yes.
GRACE: Daniel, do you believe that the title and the content of these two videos.
GIUDICE: That`s my point.
GRACE: You`re right, Ray -- will come into evidence?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think so, Nancy. It goes to her state of mind. Once the prosecution proves that she killed her child, the trial shifts to why and what was going on in her head is a combination of everything that went on before, during, and after the killing, so yes.
GRACE: Very quickly to Dr. David M. Posey. He`s a medical examiner and forensic pathologist. He is a Glen Oaks Pathology Medical Group there in L.A. Very well respected.
Dr. Posey, we have just learned that the duct tape evidence, it`s on DVD. Obviously, it`s a series of still photos or it could be a video of the duct tape wrapped around Caylee`s skull. Has been released. Hasn`t been released to the public yet. But it`s been handed over to the defense. That means it will be public very soon.
I want to announce right here that photos of Caylee`s skull will not be televised on this show. But it will get out. I`m sure it will be leaked out and end up in a tabloid. But Dr. Posey, my question is, what can the photos reveal? What does this DVD have on it? You`re the expert.
DR. DAVID M. POSEY, M.E. & FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, GLEN OAKS PATHOLOGY MED. GROUP: Well, I think it`s going to show how the tape was placed. If there`s Any resistance to placing the tape, in other -- if Caylee is still alive and functioning, I think you`re going to see some twist, turns in the tape.
You know, if you have this a still individual who`s unconscious placed in the tape should be very uniformed and very complete. Obviously, there`s going to be a lot of changes because of a decomposition and so forth and in this little red mark that was on, this little heart, they may be able to trace that as well as to where that came from.
So I think there`s going to be some evidence to come from that that will be very, very helpful and it sounds like if it`s being given out to the defense that the prosecution has got some good evidence from it.
GRACE: To Brian Reich, deputy chief at Bergen County Sheriff`s Office joining us from New York.
Brian, thank you for being with us. Brian, just common sense, what`s the point of putting duct tape on a skull, on a human after they`re dead?
BRIAN REICH, DEPUTY CHIEF, BERGEN COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Well, you know a lost times, offenders if -- if she was an organized offender who planned this and plotted this she may want to cover up the face, cover up the mouth. Putting the heart over is a sign of some of type affection.
And one of the other interesting thing is, the National Center of Missing and Exploited Children published some information that shows that typically parents that kill their child wrap them in plastic and bury them at a location that`s known to the parent that they feel comfortable and safe.
And that`s very -- very germane to this case here.
GRACE: You know what, that`s an excellent point. And you are correct.
Everybody, we`re switching gears. We need help in finding a little 8- year-old California girl. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA CHAVEZ, MOTHER OF MISSING 8-YR-OLD SANDRA: I just want my baby home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A caravan of law enforcement vehicles arrives at the Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park, zeroing in on two mobile homes and two other locations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About a dozen or more federal agents walked up to a particular trailer, pounded on the door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was important for us to be able to go in and gather some evidence that we believed would lead us to finding Sandra.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two men are being described as persons of interest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve received over 245 tips and their names have come up before.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police assuming 8-year-old Sandra Cantu is still alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no evidence to indicate otherwise and we operate on the assumption that she`s alive and well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Where is this 8-year-old little girl? The tip line, everyone, is 800-843-5678.
Very quickly, out to Cheri Matthews with "The Tracy Press." She`s joining us there outside the home.
Cheri, what can you tell us?
CHERI MATTHEWS, EDITOR, TRACY PRESS, ON LOCATION AT MISSING GIRL`S HOME: Well, unfortunately, there isn`t a lot of breaking news right now. Our latest story is that there were four homes searched and one business, and one home in Oak Dale which is about 45 miles from here.
The office that was searched in North Tracy is a martial arts studio. And so we went and interviewed the martial arts` instructor and while he has not been named a person of interest, he was questioned. And we`ve talked to him and he was the man who said he kissed Sandra Cantu in the swimming pool two years ago.
So he lives in the mobile home park. And he is still being questioned. But the police have not named him as a person of interest.
GRACE: To Blake Taylor, the news director at KMJ 580 News Radio. Blake, may be I`m misinterpreting it, maybe I`m crazy, but I think it`s highly relevant and that is a huge development in a case that there are two men named persons of interest.
What can you tell me?
BLAKE TAYLOR, NEWS DIRECTOR, KMJ 580 NEWS RADIO, COVERING STORY: I agree -- I agree with you, Nancy wholeheartedly. Those are the big developments today. Police said there are two persons of interest like you said in this case, though they won`t give us those names directly.
But one name has popped up, like your previous guest mentioned there, that`s 60-year-old Frank Wohler. Now he may or may not be one of those persons of interests. They won`t confirm that surprisingly but the martial arts instructor and local businessman was questioned at length last night.
Several CDs and a cell phone were confiscated by the feds, though they won`t say what they`re looking for exactly.
GRACE: OK, hold on. You`re telling me that police refuse to reveal who the two persons of interest are?
TAYLOR: That`s correct that`s what we know at this point. Now why would they want to talk to Mr. Wohler, a seemingly respected sansei? Like your previous guest said, this is the guy that kissed Sandra Cantu two years ago. She was 6 years old. This happened in a swimming pool at the mobile home park where they both reside.
He`s an eighth-degree black belt, by the way. That`s just a bit of his background. He won the local Dojo there in Tracy. A very popular one. Hundreds and hundreds of kids and adults have trained there over the years.
Now back to that.
GRACE: What was he doing kissing a 6.
TAYLOR: . kissing situation, he`s admitted to it. He`s admitted to it and he says he was just being nice to the neighborhood girl at that time.
GRACE: Well, he kissed a 6-year-old girl in the mouth, Blake?
TAYLOR: That`s correct.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she`s watching or if anyone knows where she is what do you want to tell them that the moment?
CHAVEZ: Please contact the Tracy Police Department. If Sandra`s watching, please call me on my phone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAVEZ: She came home from school about 3:00. And I gave her a hug and kiss and told her I love her and she asked if she could go to her friend`s house. I told her it was OK. And that was the last time I saw her. That`s everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The forensic teams are going to be looking at the evidence that was gathered yesterday afternoon and last evening and based on what they find that will be part of the direction that the rest of the investigation`s going to go today.
LISA ENCARNACION, SPOKESPERSON FOR MISSING 8-YR-OLD GIRL`S FAMILY: We are just letting them do their job because it all ties into Sandra coming home and we don`t want to do anything to interfere with their investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back out to Blake Taylor, news director at KMJ 560 News Radio. I understand that polygraphs have been administered and that dive teams have been used.
Blake, what can you tell me?
TAYLOR: Unclear about the dive teams at this point but there are many canals and sidewater ditches in and around this area of central California and northern California. That is completely common.
You hear about drowning in those areas all the time. Mostly accidental. From time to time, bodies are dumped there, though. That`s not unheard of in central California as for the waterways.
As for the polygraph tests it`s unclear which two persons of interests they have given those polygraph tests to.
Now back to Mr. Wohler, we still don`t know. Again they`re not calling this man a suspect, but again, this is the guy that has copped to kissing a 6-year-old, Sandra Cantu, two years ago, when she was 6. She`s 8 now. Frank Wohler, he`s that martial arts instructor. He`s 60 years old.
It`s unclear if he`s the one who took a polygraph test but investigators, federal investigators were at his home and office late last night for several hours talking to him.
GRACE: Out to Angie Chavez, this is little Sandra`s aunt, joining us tonight.
Miss Chavez, thank you for being with us. What are police telling you?
ANGIE CHAVEZ, AUNT OF MISSING 8-YR-OLD GIRL: Not a whole lot.
GRACE: Do you have any idea who these two persons of interest are?
A. CHAVEZ: No, I don`t. We were gone when all of this happened so I have no idea who they investigated or any of the things that they took out of the mobile home park.
GRACE: Miss Chavez, I understand that you all had a video, like a camcorder, placed around your home. And that you actually captured video of her around 4:15 p.m. she came in the house briefly and left back out, correct?
A. CHAVEZ: Yes. I`m not sure exactly on the time, but my father-in- law installed video cameras around the house two weeks before she disappeared. And the video caught her on the camera walking away from the camera which would be towards -- going away from the entrance of the mobile home park going down the street from the house.
GRACE: Everyone, I want to announce the reward tonight offered up by bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. $10,000 for the safe return of little Sandra by midnight Sunday. $10,000.
There is also another reward, $7,000 in total from Carole Sund/Carrington, that`s the families who created that foundation, and the Tracy CrimeStoppers and FBI. That`s a total of $17,000 on the table regarding this little girl.
Please take a look at Sandra Cantu. She is only 8 years old. She went to go play with a little friend. Have a play date. Has never been seen alive since that afternoon.
Back to Blake Taylor with KMJ 580. Blake, police are saying they have no reason to believe that she is dead, but they have done all of these searches. They`re performing polygraphs and they`ve named two persons of interest.
TAYLOR: Right.
GRACE: That seems inconsistent.
TAYLOR: Well, not necessarily. I think it`s a legalistic thing in this case. There`s no evidence of any vehicle that may have taken her.
GRACE: OK.
TAYLOR: Or -- and that is why it`s a mission persons` case at this point.
GRACE: OK.
TAYLOR: That`s why an AMBER Alert was never sounded in the first place on Friday night, Nancy.
GRACE: Out to Daniel Horowitz, joining us from San Francisco. Daniel, you have made a unique offer as well. Could you quickly explain it.
HOROWITZ: Yes, Nancy. If you`re out there and you know where she is, and you`ve done anything wrong, whether you`ve taken her or you`ve helped to hide her, I will represent you free of charge if, and only if, you bring her back safely.
If you do that, free of charge. You`ll get representation by me for whatever you have done.
GRACE: Very quickly, another case I want to alert you about. A missing Hollywood wife. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have anything to do with your wife`s disappearance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I did not.
GRACE: Didn`t he have long dreads and now he`s all clean-cut?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very, very concerning and bizarre that he would suddenly go missing for two weeks after she goes missing.
GRACE: Your wife is missing. You`re the last person to have seen her alive after a heated argument. You go on a Mexican vacation without her to look for her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re trying to find out where she is. The places that we think she would be. That`s what I was told.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But Lyle Herring did not notify police his wife was missing. Her sister Aasha did.
AASHA DAVIS, HOLLYWOOD ACTRESS, SISTER OF MISSING WOMAN`S LESLEY HERRING: All my sister`s belongings were still there. Just very disturbing to me. Just doesn`t sound like my sister.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then to lead LAPD detective on the case described the husband`s cooperation in less than flattering terms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would describe his cooperation as fragmented and less than helpful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I enjoy the warmth of my wife. I enjoy everything about her, you know? So I just truly miss her right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, every time he has spoken, it`s always poor, poor, poor pitiful me. Nothing about his wife.
Out to Lesley Herring`s missing -- missing Lisa Herring`s sister, Aasha Davis, Hollywood actress. I`m sure you`ve seen her many times on television.
Miss Davis, thank you for being with us. What are police telling you about the progress of the search?
DAVIS: That not much has turned up. And Nancy, I just want to thank you so much for this coverage and for your efforts in helping us find Lesley. It`s been really great. But we`ve learned nothing.
GRACE: Miss Davis, I appreciate that. I`m very concerned. What have police done trying to find her? What searches have they conducted? Who have they questioned?
DAVIS: Well, we did -- you know, the search, the wellness search of the apartment and they`ve also, you know, searched the homeless shelters and hospitals. And you know, we weren`t sure if something happened where Lesley didn`t know where she was or who she was. You know? We wanted to kind of follow those avenues as well.
GRACE: To Lew Stowers with Metro Networks. Lew, very quickly, tell us the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.
LEW STOWERS, REPORTER, METRO NETWORKS, COVERING STORY: Well, just moments ago, I just want to add to this. I did talk to Detective Chris Gable of LAPD`s Hollywood division. And he told me they`re still sifting through information they`ve received from their sources and all the calls coming in.
The circumstances behind the disappearance of Lesley Herring goes all the way back seven weeks ago to February 8th when she allegedly went missing after an argument with her husband Lyle, who took a nap, woke up and allegedly she had gone, was gone. So.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have anything to do with her disappearance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t care how crazy it sounds, we`re exploring everything before we rush to judgment. So it may sound suspicious, and it may seem that way, but I`m not going to rush to judgment and call him a suspect until I confirm it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back out to Lew Stowers with Metro Networks. Lew, you were telling us about the circumstances of her disappearance?
STOWERS: That`s right, Nancy. The disappearance on -- allegedly on February 8th, Lesley got in an argument with her husband Lyle and he took a nap. He woke up, found her gone. Now he didn`t tell anybody. And somehow or somewhere between that next week, went off to Rosarito Beach in Mexico where they had allegedly a Valentine`s Day weekend planned and came back after about two weeks without his dreadlocks that you`ve seen in the pictures, allegedly because of a gang cut them off because he owed them money.
Well, everybody knows what`s going on with the drug wars down there, that they`re going to cut off more than your hair if you go down there lately. So he has not been really forthcoming or helpful to investigators. I asked Detective Gable why Mr. Herring would go to Rosarito Beach and he told me, you should go ask him yourself and maybe he`ll give you the answer.
Because when they went to do the welfare check, as Aasha told you.
GRACE: Exactly.
STOWERS: . they broke the door down, found no apparent struggle.
GRACE: You know.
STOWERS: . and all of Lesley`s belongings there.
GRACE: Hold on, hold on just a moment. I want to go back to Aasha. They had to break the door down to do the wellness check? Why didn`t the husband let them in?
DAVIS: We couldn`t find him. We made several calls to his cell phone but it was full, the message box was full. And so the detective suggested that we text them and let them know that we were at their house with the police and still no answer.
GRACE: Everyone, where is this lovely lady? The tip line 213-972- 2910.
Let`s stop and remember Army Private Bradley Coleman, 24, Martinsville, Virginia, killed Iraq. Wanted to join the army since he was a boy. Caring, generous, loved time with his children. Leaves behind a wife Heather, children Edward and Shyanna. Parents Diane and Dale. Step parents Carl and Yolanda. Three sisters, two step-brothers, one step- sister.
Bradley Coleman, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. See you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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